Jerry, As taken from the Book Of Buckskinning, Vol. V, there are lots of
games for both young children and us older children too <ggg>. Many are
suitable for both...
Card games include Whist (similar to bridge), Vingt-et-un (21 or black-jack),
Loo, Cribbage, Fan-Tan, Poker, Faro and Spanish Monte.
There are also correct board games like Pente', Chess, Draughts, Tables,
Goose, Shove Ha'Penny, Shovel Board, Nine-Mens Morris, Fox and Geese among
others.
There were also dice games like craps (Hazard). Dominoes, Sweat-cloth
(chuck-a-luck)
Other childrens games might include Marbles, Jacks, Mumblety-Peg, Prisoners
Base, Quoits & Horseshoes, and Coin tosses.
Ball games listed include Stool Ball, Trap Ball, Cricket, One-Old-Cat,
Rounders, Town Ball, Baseball, Football, and the ancient Golf.
There are also bowling type games such as Nine Pins.
If you need instructions, contact me off-list and I'll forward them, or pick
up a copy of B o B Vol 5, and watch the fun begin.
Hope this helps, Barn
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 07:23:09 -0000
From: "Glenn Darilek" <llsi@texas.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clay pipes
One story I heard was that tavern pipes were available in the tavern for
patrons to use. They had very long stems, which were broken off between
smokers to afford a fresh stem for the next. Somehow this doesn't ring too
true, as I have the feeling that they weren't as particular about this type
of hygiene back then.
Glenn Darilek
Iron Burner
- -----Original Message-----
From: EmmaPeel2@aol.com <EmmaPeel2@aol.com>
>It's a wonder the folks at Jamestown didn't keel over from smoke
inhalation,
>as their pipestem aperture was so large. When the tobacco tar built up,
they
>simply bit off the end of the stem, and continued smoking the pipe.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 06:12:45 -0700
From: John Stephens <johns@primarycolor.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clay pipes
Iron Burner, I believe that you are right. The LA Times had an artice
yesterday about the fine art of spitting and it traced the taboo back in
time to when saliva was not so badly regarded. I will look it up when I
get home, but I believe that this ink on paper supports your belief.
Perhaps Barney Fife has a copy at hand?
B'st'rd
Glenn Darilek wrote:
>
> One story I heard was that tavern pipes were available in the tavern for
> patrons to use. They had very long stems, which were broken off between
> smokers to afford a fresh stem for the next. Somehow this doesn't ring too
> true, as I have the feeling that they weren't as particular about this type
> of hygiene back then.
>
> Glenn Darilek
> Iron Burner
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: EmmaPeel2@aol.com <EmmaPeel2@aol.com>
>
> >It's a wonder the folks at Jamestown didn't keel over from smoke
> inhalation,
> >as their pipestem aperture was so large. When the tobacco tar built up,
> they
> >simply bit off the end of the stem, and continued smoking the pipe.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:45:39 -0700
From: "Dennis Earp" <96mfg@hspower.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clay pipes
Dennis,
Good site & information. I had read in one of the journals ( may have
been Byrd's in Carolina backcountry appx 1760 - can' t remember
right now ) that they "washed and cleaned" their clay pipes periodically.
Unfortunately there was no other details than that. While we're on the
subject, does anyone know how to properly care for a soap stone
pipe. Have had some bad experiences with them in the past.
Thanks,
Dennis Earp
>> Hey all you "tobacco drinkers" If you smoke a clay pipe, I have the
>> place for you.
>> www.bytor.com/pipes/pipes.htm "Olde World Fine Clays", Stephen Bray's
>> place.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:32:56 -0400
From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clay pipes
Dennis,
I don't know about washing and cleaning, but on Stephen's site he tells how to
warm the pipe and put it right in the burining coals of your fire overnite to
remove all the tar and crud...
Puffing happily in Ohio<G>
D
Dennis Earp wrote:
>
> that they "washed and cleaned" their clay pipes periodically.
>
"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements
http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:41:19 -0400
From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clay pipes
You know, now that I posted the below stuff, I was thinking... (shut up, I doon
wanna hear it<G>)
The finish on these pipes is smooth and rather slick, not rough and sandy as the
cast ones are.. So I could see, if folks use the pipes and make them a might grungy
by handleing them with none too clean paws, how they could easily be washed and
cleaned up nice...
D
Dennis Miles wrote:
> Dennis,
> I don't know about washing and cleaning, but on Stephen's site he tells how to
> warm the pipe and put it right in the burining coals of your fire overnite to
> remove all the tar and crud...
> Puffing happily in Ohio<G>
> D
>
> Dennis Earp wrote:
>
> >
> > that they "washed and cleaned" their clay pipes periodically.
> >
>
> "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
> DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
> Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements
> http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
- --
"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements
http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:01:10 +0000
From: R Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clay pipes
Dennis Miles wrote:
>
> Dennis,
> I don't know about washing and cleaning, but
<snipe>
put it right in the burning coals of your fire overnight to
> remove all the tar and crud...
Dennis,
I would throw out this cautionary tale. I have a couple of clay pipes I
got from Frank Straight (Green River Forge) years ago and here recently
decided to put them back into use. After a time they became rather nasty
looking and so I decided that heating them up would be a proper way of
cooking off the baked in/ baked on crud. I put them in the coals of a
fire and let them heat up. Took them out once the job had been done.
Went to smoking them again and noticed little hairline cracks with tar
oozing out. I no longer have one of the clay pipe heads because it
finally fell apart on the heat fracture lines. The other pipe looks very
fragile and I am very careful of it now. For my part I will no longer
heat them up in the coals and will just clean them out with a knife or
wash them out with water. Just my experience's, I remain......
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 15:28:13 -0400
From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clay pipes
Capt'/
Were they true clay or slip cast? I know a small slip cast one I had fell
completly apart when I attempted this a couple of years ago. According to
the website, the clays are fired at excess of 2000 degrees, so you should
have no problem with this happening. He even gives instructions for doing it
with charcoal briquettes at home...
D
R Lahti wrote:
> Dennis Miles wrote:
> >
> > Dennis,
> > I don't know about washing and cleaning, but
>
> <snipe>
>
> put it right in the burning coals of your fire overnight to
> > remove all the tar and crud...
>
> Dennis,
>
> I would throw out this cautionary tale. I have a couple of clay pipes I
> got from Frank Straight (Green River Forge) years ago and here recently
> decided to put them back into use. After a time they became rather nasty
> looking and so I decided that heating them up would be a proper way of
> cooking off the baked in/ baked on crud. I put them in the coals of a
> fire and let them heat up. Took them out once the job had been done.
> Went to smoking them again and noticed little hairline cracks with tar
> oozing out. I no longer have one of the clay pipe heads because it
> finally fell apart on the heat fracture lines. The other pipe looks very
> fragile and I am very careful of it now. For my part I will no longer
> heat them up in the coals and will just clean them out with a knife or
> wash them out with water. Just my experience's, I remain......
>
> YMOS
> Capt. Lahti'
- --
"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements
http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:57:23 -0600
From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tipi Dwelling
Cap'n Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> wrote:
> If you do any serious looking out west in
>indian country you will eventually come across former indian camp areas
>with distinct circles of stones the size of the base of indian teepee's.
>Those stones were there to hold down the bottom of the lodge in-lieu of
>using stakes. Using those stones around the edge ( and there are enough
>stones to place one very close to the next) would effectively close off
>the bottom of the lodge.
These 'tipi rings' are common here in Alberta; Peter Fidler mentions them in
one of his journals, and says that they were used when there were no stakes,
or wood to make stakes.
>
>On a related subject, I have been wondering about tipi liners for a while.
Out of seven historic (1774-1821) descriptions of tipi interiors in W.
Canada, six don't mention tipi liners. A seventh mentions something which
might be a tipi liner, but it's unclear. The only paintings of the inside of
tipis from this period, Rindisbacher's "Indian Women in Tent" and Hood's
"Interior of a Cree Tent"(?) show tipis which clearly do not have liners.
So, what's going on here? Did one Native group invent the tipi liner, and it
was adopted by others later on? Or were only rich Natives able to afford a
liner, and with the general increase in Native wealth, liners became much
more common after 1821? (The one potential reference to tipi liners is a
description of the largest tipi in a camp of seven lodges.) Any thoughts?
>As an additional point to consider, the Saami of Northern Finland use the
>same type of lodge (with very minor differences) as the American Indian.
>They live in a very cold climate and fasten their lodges down tight to
>the ground as I understand it.
I still remember an anthropology prof of mine, Dr. Bea Medicine, describing
her experience visiting a Saami lodge. She was said it was very smoky, and
felt that the Sioux tipi with its earflaps was a vast improvement. Fur posts
could also be very smoky. Alexander Henry the Younger tore down a chimney at
Rocky Mountain House (N. Saskatchewan. R.) & rebuilt it-- in the middle of
winter!-- because it smoked too much.
Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred
agottfre@telusplanet.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 18:01:43 +0000
From: R Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clay pipes
Dennis Miles wrote:
>
> Capt'/
> Were they true clay or slip cast?
Dennis,
Ya know, I couldn't really say. I would judge them to be of high quality
and suspect that Frank got them Fired just like any good ceramic but
like I said, I didn't ever have any problems until I heated them up hot
enough to burn out the gunk. After that I noticed the cracks not as
visible breaks but lines of tar being forced out of the clay along lines
that otherwise would not be visible. Those fault lines eventually were
where the clay broke.
They were usually of a dark brown/gray color to start with and not tera
cota or white like colonial pipes. About all I can tell ya. I suppose
this fella's methods might work fine on some clays but the "old records"
say they washed them out. It doesn't say they burned them out. My advice
is to be careful just from my experience with heating them up. I
remain........
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:05:11 +0000
From: R Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tipi Dwelling
Angela Gottfred wrote:
> These 'tipi rings' are common here in Alberta; Peter Fidler mentions them in
> one of his journals, and says that they were used when there were no stakes,
> or wood to make stakes.
Angela,
Great additional info (as usual! <G>). I'm only guessing but I would
think that they were also used when the ground was too hard to drive
stakes. But they may have been a more common way of doing it simply
because of the logistics of either carrying or making stakes. Rocks are
a lot easier to come by. But we have to be careful with our speculations
and that may be where the liners came from. I also consider Alberta as
being out west <G>. The plains indian culture surely didn't see a
boarder at the 49th (?) parallel.
> >
> >On a related subject, I have been wondering about tipi liners for a while.
> Out of seven historic (1774-1821) descriptions of tipi interiors in W.
> Canada, six don't mention tipi liners. A seventh mentions something which
> might be a tipi liner, but it's unclear. The only paintings of the inside of
> tipis from this period, Rindisbacher's "Indian Women in Tent" and Hood's
> "Interior of a Cree Tent"(?) show tipis which clearly do not have liners.
This does smack of white man inventiveness doesn't it?
>
> So, what's going on here? Did one Native group invent the tipi liner, and it
> was adopted by others later on? Or were only rich Natives able to afford a
> liner, and with the general increase in Native wealth, liners became much
> more common after 1821? (The one potential reference to tipi liners is a
> description of the largest tipi in a camp of seven lodges.) Any thoughts?
You seem to know quit a bit about the Saami and perhaps much more than
me (even though I'm proud to be Finn). Someone else mentioned last year
that their lodges didn't/don't have smoke flaps. Is that universally the
case?
Back to the Amerindian, I am thinking that from what you have pointed
out above, liners were not the norm and perhaps a very late development
or even a white invention. We do tend to do that. Make things better.
There are many antidotes of how indians suffered from conditions of the
eyes and I am thinking I have read accounts of how smoky it was said to
have been in an indian lodge whether it was made of skins or earth or
cedar logs and planks. Perhaps liners aren't all that authentic!
> I still remember an anthropology prof of mine, Dr. Bea Medicine, describing
> her experience visiting a Saami lodge. She was said it was very smoky, and
> felt that the Sioux tipi with its earflaps was a vast improvement. Fur posts
> could also be very smoky.
Saami lodges are not very big are they?! Any small lodge with or without
a liner will be much more smoky that a much larger version. Perhaps that
is what the main difference was, size. Of course my "Sioux" lodge has
been pretty smoky from time to time with a liner and flaps. Pilot error!
Alexander Henry the Younger tore down a chimney at
> Rocky Mountain House (N. Saskatchewan. R.) & rebuilt it-- in the middle of
> winter!-- because it smoked too much.
He was also a white man with white man expectations and ingenuity. Well,
that are my thoughts at least to this point. If I ever set up my lodge
again, I will continue to use the liner and ozan. I remain.......
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:53:10 -0400
From: Tom Roberts <troberts@gdi.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Low Shooter
Shooting in a new .54 smoothebore flinter trade gun. Selecting the
best charge (someone said fill it till your ears ring and then back off
a few grains!) of around 75 grains (FFFg). Nice tight patch - some
effort to drive the ball home. Shooting from a bench rest at 25 yards.
Sighting between the crown of the tang and the base of the front sight,
a distance of 39". Cleaning after every shot. Shots are consistently
16" to 18" low. I'm puzzled. I don't think filing the front sight is
the answer since I'm already sighting below it. Just in case you're
wondering, I can hit the target with a different gun. Any thoughts or
advice? More powder? Whack the barrel against a hickory stump? Get
closer to a bigger target?
Tom
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 23:14:49 -0400
From: Bob Spencer <bspen@aye.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Low Shooter
>Sighting between the crown of the tang and the base of the front sight,
>a distance of 39". Cleaning after every shot. Shots are consistently
>16" to 18" low.
Change your sight picture to see more of the top of the barrel, Tom. I went
through that exact same problem with my first smoothbore with front sight,
only, but have no problem now that I've learned the correct sight picture.
Bob
Bob Spencer <bspen@aye.net>
Louisville, KY
http://members.aye.net/~bspen/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:25:22 +0000
From: R Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Low Shooter
Tom Roberts wrote:
>
> Shooting in a new .54 smoothebore flinter trade gun.
Snipe
Any thoughts or
> advice? More powder?
Tom,
Powder is fine if not a bit hotter than usual (I use 70 gr. 3fff in my
20 ga. smoothy).
Whack the barrel against a hickory stump?
That is close to last thing to try.
Get
> closer to a bigger target?
That's not the answer yet.
May I suggest that many smooth bores come with way too tall a front
sight for what they are asked to do. But first things first.
1. Shoot for group off a bench at very close range (best group found by
trying different loads up and down from where you are now) changing
different components one at a time until you know the gun will shoot
"that tight a group" and no smaller.
2. Shoot that best load combination for best accuracy on target off a
bench no matter how high or low it shoots. If the front sight needs to
come down, it can surely come down to the height of a shot gun bead.
3. Try raising your eye for a higher rear sight level.
4. If that still don't get it then consider taking the barrel out and
"very carefully" springing it upward ever so slightly. (instructions on
request but only after trying all of the above) Put it back in the stock
and try #2 above again.
That would be my approach. We may hear others add something I have
missed or take exception to something I have said but that is the way I
would approach it. Hope that gets you where you are going. I remain.....
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 00:28:22 EDT
From: Casapy123@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Let's Start Talking !
John,
regarding spurs. Check Miller's painting. He shows some early military
spurs, typically with a very small, if any, rowel. Looks more like a little
knob at the end. Calvary spurs, perhaps.
If you like what Miller's painted, I've got a set you can have, bro. Let's
trade.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 00:28:52 EDT
From: Casapy123@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Let's Start Talking !
Here's a topic!
Can any one show me documented references to throwing a tomahawk at
rendezvous?
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:17:30 -0400
From: ad.miller@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Low Shooter
Shots are consistently
>16" to 18" low. I'm puzzled. I don't think filing the front sight is
>the answer since I'm already sighting below it.
IMHO, I think filing a tad off the front sight will raise the point of
impact... That is what I remember from my Instructors Training course .. :)
Ad Miller
------------------------------
Date: 30 Aug 1999 06:30:48 -0700
From: Buck <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Trade Blanket web sites
Several of the members of this list were kind enough to setup a trade blanket web pages for us to move our un-needed items.
Your probably thing how successful would this be, or do I want to be waste my time !
You better start going through your equipage and gather all the un-wanted or un-needed stuff you have had for years and list them new price, condition, selling price.
The reason I'm telling you this is these sites works; I listed about 15-20 items last Friday night about 8PM mdt and by Saturday morning 11AM mdt had sold everything. I'm talking from a diamond fly to a pair of F&I War riding boots, big items and small - it all went.
You may want to give this a second thought, sites at:
> Angela I also think you have great information. Adds to my tipi knowledge.
>
>
> Great additional info (as usual! <G>). I'm only guessing but I would
> think that they were also used when the ground was too hard to drive
> stakes. But they may have been a more common way of doing it simply
> because of the logistics of either carrying or making stakes.
Stakes are much easier to carry and not all area have rocks. Are main camping
area for tipis is out on the Plains. Lots of grass but not a lot of rocks. And I
do prefer stakes when those big Plains winds come swooping down on you. I
remember the 1978 NMLRA or NAPR when we were up in the hills and that BIG wind
storm came through. Glad to be pegged down even though some tipis did a little
"walking".
> Rocks are
> a lot easier to come by. But we have to be careful with our speculations
> and that may be where the liners came from. I also consider Alberta as
> being out west <G>. The plains indian culture surely didn't see a
> boarder at the 49th (?) parallel.
>
> > >
> > >On a related subject, I have been wondering about tipi liners for a while.
> > Out of seven historic (1774-1821) descriptions of tipi interiors in W.
> > Canada, six don't mention tipi liners. A seventh mentions something which
> > might be a tipi liner, but it's unclear. The only paintings of the inside of
> > tipis from this period, Rindisbacher's "Indian Women in Tent" and Hood's
> > "Interior of a Cree Tent"(?) show tipis which clearly do not have liners.
>
> This does smack of white man inventiveness doesn't it?
Maybe not. What are buffalo robes or elk hide robes for if not on the ground or
"hanging" up. These may have been the early "linings" that were used. We are too
use to seeing the very fitted linings of today. Also remember that it is not
necessary to have a lining up all the time. It is work and not needed all the
time.
Old linings also came in sections. There can be more than 3 or 4 in a tipi. I
have pictures of many early and then much later linings. There is also the
nomadic problem here. Do you have the time or is it too heavy to drag around the
more complete lining not to mention the OZAN if you have one.
>
> >
> > So, what's going on here? Did one Native group invent the tipi liner, and it
> > was adopted by others later on? Or were only rich Natives able to afford a
> > liner, and with the general increase in Native wealth, liners became much
> > more common after 1821?
I think you hit it on the head there. How many wives does it take to set up a
COMPLETE tipi???? And what is a complete tipi???
> (The one potential reference to tipi liners is a
> > description of the largest tipi in a camp of seven lodges.) Any thoughts?
>
> Back to the Amerindian, I am thinking that from what you have pointed
> out above, liners were not the norm and perhaps a very late development
> or even a white invention.
I do not think so. They have been around a long time. I use one of my elk robes
as lining behind my bed when i need one. Do not need it all the time. But in
Fla. YOU DO NOT NEED ONE AT ALL.
> have been in an indian lodge whether it was made of skins or earth or
> cedar logs and planks. Perhaps liners aren't all that authentic!
>
> been pretty smoky from time to time with a liner and flaps. Pilot error!
> ingenuity. Well,
> that are my thoughts at least to this point. If I ever set up my lodge
> again, I will continue to use the liner and ozan. I remain.......
>
BTW....is it a liner or a lining???????
LInda Holley
Who's computer is down again for 1week after being out for 3 weeks.
------------------------------
Date: 30 Aug 1999 13:34:07 -0700
From: Buck <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Low Shooter
On Mon, 30 August 1999, Michael Pierce wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:17:30 -0400 ad.miller@mindspring.com writes:
> >IMHO, I think filing a tad off the front sight will raise the point of
> >impact... That is what I remember from my Instructors Training course
>
> Ad Miller
> IMHO
> dont believe that filing the front sight will solve his total
> problem---would take about .32 to get the strike of the bullet to
> move 16"---it would help but is not the solution---what is happening is
> that he is not down on the gun with his head and is looking at the sight
> at a angle---most new shooters of smooth bores do this--- suggest that
> you use a different sight picture---
>
> use your thumb and pointing finger and grip the barrel so that they
> protrude above the plain of the barrel---this gives you a rear reference
> point have your fingers placed about the same height as the front sight
> ---then look thru your fingers and center the front sight and level it
> with the top of your fingers---as a reference shoot it a few times like
> that and see if the strike of the bullet comes up---if it does you are in
> good shape if not lower your fingers and try again---pappy horn taught me
> to do that many years ago and it works when there is no rear sight---you
> can pick up almost any smooth bore and be on target at 50 yds---if you do
> it that way---also your powder charge should be increased by at least 10
> to 20 gr to bring the strike of the bullet up a tad before you start the
> sighting in process---shoot for groop and not for location on the
> target---if it is still shooting low then
>
> check the squareness of the end of the barrel and the crown---a off-angle
> of the crown or a not sq crown will make the gun shoot off quite a
> bit---use a framers square and check at least 4 places on the barrel---if
> the crown is damaged then it will shoot off also---eleminate the obvious
> before you start fileing on the sight----you can also use the tang screw
> slot as a method of centering the front sight ---turn the screw so that
> it is parallel to the barrel---gives you a sight reference point---have
> seen people use a washer under the tang screw to rase it up so that there
> is a simbelance of a rear sight when shooting a gun in---constant
> position of the head is critical to get consistancy with a smoothbore
> with out a rear sight---
>
> if all else fails you might have to bend the barrel---as cpt lathe
> suggested----check the arcives we had a long discussion on this several
> months ago---some good info there in the archives---if you dont
> understand my posting feeel free to give me a call any evening and i will
> talk you thru the sighting in process and getting that impact of the ball
> in the right place---have helped a many a smooth bore shooter get it to
> work correct---you can also regulate the barrel to get the strike of the
> bullet to move in the direction you wish but would have to talk you thru
> that process---I have regulated several of them and moved the strike of
> the bullet as much as 12 inches without a problem at 50 yds---the only
> problem with regulating it is that if you are shooting buck and ball or
> shot it will greatly change your point of impact---so i normally dont do
> that until i am sure the barrel is shooting off and it is not shooter
> error---
>
> REMEMBER----head position on the stock is critical with a smooth bore and
> must be consistant ---even if it is wrong???
>
> SUGGESTION----have a nother smooth bore shooter shoot your gun and see
> where he hits on the target---shoot at least 5 shots and look at the
> center of mast of the groop.
>
> hope i have helped if you have any questions feel free to give me a call
>
> YMHOSANT
> =+=
> "Hawk"
> Michael Pierce
Guys,
I have done as Hawk has suggested, even put a small peep sight screw into the tang screw to get on target. Round barrel guns are tricky at times, but for some real fun wait until you get an oxy.barrel smoothbore with rear sight that won't keep 3 shots at 50 yards on a 5' x 5' archery target.
Sometimes smoothbores can drive you crazy, had a oxy. barreled smoothbore gun (Dennis Miles owns it now) that would not shoot period. I tried everything and finally gave it to several super shots to see what they could do - same story. Ron Long, of Long's Locks (world class shooter) did everything possible, even put barrel in his lathe to check out, end of story is now Dennis has a hell of a shooter - a rifled jager. We gave up after hundreds of rounds and raplaced the oxy. barrel.
Later,
Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Territory
http://klesinger.com/jbp/swf1.html
__________________________________
The AMM Journal.
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle
3483 Squires * Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
Subscription rate for the T&LR is $20 for
a year - qtr issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov.
_____________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:41:36 -0700
From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Low Shooter
Dang Buck, I was hoping you were gonna say you pawned that no shootin sucker
off on Ole Dennis. [ Just kidding. ] I aim to hook up with Dennis in a
shootin match this fall, and I'll need all the help I can get. I have seen
the targets he has shot with that gun. Real impressive.
Pendleton
- -----Original Message-----
From: Buck <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Monday, August 30, 1999 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Low Shooter
>On Mon, 30 August 1999, Michael Pierce wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:17:30 -0400 ad.miller@mindspring.com writes:
>> >IMHO, I think filing a tad off the front sight will raise the point of
>> >impact... That is what I remember from my Instructors Training course
>>
>> Ad Miller
>> IMHO
>> dont believe that filing the front sight will solve his total
>> problem---would take about .32 to get the strike of the bullet to
>> move 16"---it would help but is not the solution---what is happening is
>> that he is not down on the gun with his head and is looking at the sight
>> at a angle---most new shooters of smooth bores do this--- suggest that
>> you use a different sight picture---
>>
>> use your thumb and pointing finger and grip the barrel so that they
>> protrude above the plain of the barrel---this gives you a rear reference
>> point have your fingers placed about the same height as the front sight
>> ---then look thru your fingers and center the front sight and level it
>> with the top of your fingers---as a reference shoot it a few times like
>> that and see if the strike of the bullet comes up---if it does you are in
>> good shape if not lower your fingers and try again---pappy horn taught me
>> to do that many years ago and it works when there is no rear sight---you
>> can pick up almost any smooth bore and be on target at 50 yds---if you do
>> it that way---also your powder charge should be increased by at least 10
>> to 20 gr to bring the strike of the bullet up a tad before you start the
>> sighting in process---shoot for groop and not for location on the
>> target---if it is still shooting low then
>>
>> check the squareness of the end of the barrel and the crown---a off-angle
>> of the crown or a not sq crown will make the gun shoot off quite a
>> bit---use a framers square and check at least 4 places on the barrel---if
>> the crown is damaged then it will shoot off also---eleminate the obvious
>> before you start fileing on the sight----you can also use the tang screw
>> slot as a method of centering the front sight ---turn the screw so that
>> it is parallel to the barrel---gives you a sight reference point---have
>> seen people use a washer under the tang screw to rase it up so that there
>> is a simbelance of a rear sight when shooting a gun in---constant
>> position of the head is critical to get consistancy with a smoothbore
>> with out a rear sight---
>>
>> if all else fails you might have to bend the barrel---as cpt lathe
>> suggested----check the arcives we had a long discussion on this several
>> months ago---some good info there in the archives---if you dont
>> understand my posting feeel free to give me a call any evening and i will
>> talk you thru the sighting in process and getting that impact of the ball
>> in the right place---have helped a many a smooth bore shooter get it to
>> work correct---you can also regulate the barrel to get the strike of the
>> bullet to move in the direction you wish but would have to talk you thru
>> that process---I have regulated several of them and moved the strike of
>> the bullet as much as 12 inches without a problem at 50 yds---the only
>> problem with regulating it is that if you are shooting buck and ball or
>> shot it will greatly change your point of impact---so i normally dont do
>> that until i am sure the barrel is shooting off and it is not shooter
>> error---
>>
>> REMEMBER----head position on the stock is critical with a smooth bore and
>> must be consistant ---even if it is wrong???
>>
>> SUGGESTION----have a nother smooth bore shooter shoot your gun and see
>> where he hits on the target---shoot at least 5 shots and look at the
>> center of mast of the groop.
>>
>> hope i have helped if you have any questions feel free to give me a call
>>
>> YMHOSANT
>> =+=
>> "Hawk"
>> Michael Pierce
>
>Guys,
>
>I have done as Hawk has suggested, even put a small peep sight screw into
the tang screw to get on target. Round barrel guns are tricky at times, but
for some real fun wait until you get an oxy.barrel smoothbore with rear
sight that won't keep 3 shots at 50 yards on a 5' x 5' archery target.
>
>Sometimes smoothbores can drive you crazy, had a oxy. barreled smoothbore
gun (Dennis Miles owns it now) that would not shoot period. I tried
everything and finally gave it to several super shots to see what they could
do - same story. Ron Long, of Long's Locks (world class shooter) did
everything possible, even put barrel in his lathe to check out, end of story
is now Dennis has a hell of a shooter - a rifled jager. We gave up after
hundreds of rounds and raplaced the oxy. barrel.
>
>
>Later,
>Buck Conner
>
>AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Territory
>http://klesinger.com/jbp/swf1.html
>__________________________________
>
>The AMM Journal.
>The Tomahawk & Long Rifle
>3483 Squires * Conklin, MI 49403
>ATTN: Jon Link
>Subscription rate for the T&LR is $20 for
>a year - qtr issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov.
>_____________________________________
>
>Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
>
>
------------------------------
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