Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: 10 Aug 1999 11:06:50 -0700
From: buck.conner@uswestmail.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: TVM Trade Gun?
I have dealt with Jack for probably 30 years, buying, selling , and when I closed my store sold him all the locks, barrels, stocks and misc. gun parts.
Like any business, as you get larger and hire help, sometimes parts of the business may suffer due to being so busy and sometimes can't cover all bases.
Jack is like anyone else that cares about his customers and will be more than willing to talk over and take care of the problem.
I know in Turtle's case I saw the gun, he should have made the call, but let things go to the point that selling it, and moving on was probably the best for everyone involved.
Sometimes one has to just flat ass walk away, no matter what the deal.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:54:41 EDT
From: ThisOldFox@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: TVM Trade Gun?
Buck writes:
> I have dealt with Jack for probably 30 years, buying, selling , and when I
> closed my store sold him all the locks, barrels, stocks and misc. gun
parts.
I have two guns by Jack....an early Virginia and an Early English fowler.
The Virginia was signed on the barrel by Jack, so I assume it was his work.
I bought it 2nd hand from a guy who was hard up for money, but the gun had
never been fired. It sat in my dry arid closet all winter, and developed a
hairline crack down through the wrist. Could have been the wood, could have
been cause my house was too dry, or could have been because the guy I bought
it from cranked the screws down way too tight. No one knows, but I don't
think its anyone's fault. Those things happen. You can view that gun at
http://oldfoxtraders.com/garner.thm
> Like any business, as you get larger and hire help, sometimes parts of the
> business may suffer due to being so busy and sometimes can't cover all
bases.
Toni runs the front, and a sweeter southern belle you will never meet. Her
husband, Matt, does most of the shop work. I don't know how much Jack is
involved now.
I specifically commissioned Matt to make my English fowler. I spent almost a
year traveling around gun shows and such, specifically hand picking all the
parts I wanted on the gun, so that it would be a unique, one of a kind gun.
I sent all the parts to Matt, along with my specifications. We conversed on
the phone several times along the building process to verify exactly what I
had in mind. He couldn't use the stock I sent him, and made another one for
no extra charge, keeping my wood for a gun that it would fit. I had some
fancy carving done on it. All the parts were extremely ornate and required
some amount of skill to inlet. It was built to my length of pull. TVM only
charged me $250 to make this gun. In my business, that pays for only 5 hours
labor, and I know he had a hell of lot more time in it than that. I spent
over $700 on the parts alone. Anyone who thinks these gunmakers are getting
rich need to reexamine the process.
> Jack is like anyone else that cares about his customers and will be more
> than willing to talk over and take care of the problem.
Anyone who has a problem with any gun should always call the maker and
discuss it in a calm rational manner. Most go out of their way to help you.
> I know in Turtle's case I saw the gun, he should have made the call, but
let
> things go to the point that selling it, and moving on was probably the best
> for everyone involved.
Don't know if Turtle's gun was commissioned or bought as a stock gun. I
mentioned that they kept my stock. I'm sure that at some point, they made a
gun from it to recoup their losses. Spare things accumulate around the shop
and have to be moved out to make some money. I know other gunmakers who
routinely take their UPS damaged guns, leftover stocks, and other parts, and
use them to put together a gun during the slow time. They sell these guns at
Rendezvous and shows for a discount as show guns, or they sell them to
beginners who aren't as critical about everything. If you commission a gun,
then it should meet certain standards. If you just buy a gun off the rack or
from stock, chances are the quality will not be quite as high. However, it
takes almost the same amount of work to make a lousy gun as it does a good
one.
> Sometimes one has to just flat ass walk away, no matter what the deal.
Yup, sometimes you gotta do that to. I probably could have called and
sqwuaked about the crack in the Virginia and they would have restocked it for
me. However, since I bought it second hand, I didn't figure it was there
problem. I'll probably take the loss on the gun, but that's the way I think.
Others might think otherwise.
Dave Kanger
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:56:51 -0400
From: Tom Roberts <troberts@gdi.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gun Cover
Larry,
Thanks for the reply. That article is where I started but I hope to find some more
technical details.
Thanks, Tom
Huber wrote:
> Tom,
> An article by Gary Mueller in BOOK OF BUCKSKINNING IV indicates that: "Gun
> cases were also made of wool. Nothing beats wool to repel water and
> moisture, therefore helping keep you and your gun dry and warm." He cites
> a lot of works at the end of the article but quotes nothing specific to
> back up this assumption. I carry my trade gun in a wool case similar to
> the one pictured in this article. I had heard that new guns were often
> shipped to a buyer in woolen cases but I can't remember the source I read
> this in. The article goes into some detail on colors styles and prices
> paid for point blankets, etc. Worth reading.
>
> Shoots-the-Prairie Larry Huber
>
> At 09:16 PM 8/8/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >After searching the E-mail archives, my meager library, and a few other
> >sources and coming up empty, I pose this question:
> >Is there any correct style, construction, color, etc for a gun cover
> >made from a wool blanket, or is this something that has
> >too many possible variations to be wrong. I suspect there are probably
> >no originals around to see. Any ideas or thoughts before I put the
> >knife to this old moth-eaten dirty red blanket?
> >
> >Thanx, Tom
> >
> >
> >
> >
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:13:45 -0400
From: Tom Roberts <troberts@gdi.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gun Cover
Excellent point. I have also considered an oiled or painted canvas cover with perhaps a wool lining for those
expected times when dry is only a memory. Making one would be easy but authenticating it may prove tough indeed.
Does one typically plug the muzzle during times of transport or shall we let it breathe?
Tom
turtle@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> The biggest problem with wool is if moisture gets on the gun and its put in the wool case, the wool will hold the moisture and within 24 hours or less you have a nice rusted gun. We have found when around water, canoe trips, etc. one is better off to remove the weapon and carry it out of the case, before putting it back in the case - make sure case is dry, wipe the gun down with a light coat of oil. Leather cases are worst yet.
>
> Turtle.
>
> Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:29:38 EDT
From: WSmith4100@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trading Site
You might try this site it's another message board message:
> I have two guns by Jack....an early Virginia and an Early English fowler.
> The Virginia was signed on the barrel by Jack, so I assume it was his work.
>
> Dave Kanger
............................
Dave,
I see we agree on this subject about dealing with whatever the dealer is selling. Be calm and go easy when trying to get a problem settled, when I still had a retail store - that's what I would preach to anyone behind the counter. To stay in business, and the one Dave is in is tough. Any service type business whether your the May Tag Man or the lock builder, you have to treat the customer just the way you like to be treated. Man I've made some hairy deals in trying to keep a customer happy, and you "Turtle" know how close the profit margain was on some of our dealings.
That's why he will make a remark about me or my store, as others have. If I took them down the trail and shorted them, do you think they would even say anything - hell NO.
There are a lot of good guys in the gun business and Old Jack is one, I took him on his first buffalo hunt back in the early '80's, with Freddie Harris and some of his other southern buddies, had a heck of a time figuring out what they would say when a buffalo would run at them. I thought they where saying "shoot" - that's what I'm yelling, turned out afterward, they where saying "oh shi...", we where close.
I have hunted, camped, got drunk and just had fun with these guys, and Jack never changes, he's just a Southern Gentleman.
Thanks for your time.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:53:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI)
Subject: MtMan-List: Off Topic - Repost
One or two lists back, someone posted an e-mail address to send
encouraging writings to help bolster morale for his son and others in
the Armed Forces stationed in Kosovo. Could someone on the list please
post it again. forgot to save it - old age creeping up on me.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:31:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI)
Subject: MtMan-List: Old Magazines - Buckskin Report, T+LR, Backwoodsman, etc.
This probably is extremely far fetched, but if the Federal Government
ever gets the whole country re-wired for Internet-2, all the fantastic
golden nuggets of knowledge from these magazines could be downloaded in
a few seconds. One of the computer support guys down the hall stated a
couple months ago that IF! this ever happens one will be able to
download an entire encyclopedia in a matter of a 2-3 seconds. If only
the AMM or another such good group had a "cache" or small hut-like
storage building where every issue of these magazines could be stored
until the Internet-2 happened. Hate to see this knowledge lost. Heard
someone once say "never throw anything out - if you throw it out throw
it where you can find it" (no doubt a GOOD pack-rat).
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:41:39 -0400
From: "Lewis Kevin Raper" <POSSUMHUNTER@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gun Cover
Greetings to the list,
I have read Barnett trade guns came in a wool case. Do not ask me where i
read this little tid-bit of knowledge as I don't remember!
Watch yer top knot, Kevin (PossumHunter) Raper
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:51:18 -0700
From: terry l landis <tllandis@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: TVM Trade Gun?
first off i didn't mean to bad mouth anybody least of all jack. i just
meant to say that the fit wasn't as good as i expected it to be. i was
also led to belive in some fable of out of the box accuracy. i like my
gun, but when i got it the first thing i noticed was the flaws, and being
green as i was i thought there wouldn't be any. as has been said , i
doubt jack made this riffle even though his name is on it.
i have been able to live with it and i have gotten lot's of compliments
on this gun of mine. but for several hundred dollars less i could have
gotten a kit and the same quality of workmanship with money left over for
accoutrements.
over all i give this gun an 8 out of 10 for wood to metal fit, and a 9
for overall looks. i guess i was expecting 10's all the way around for
the semi-custom price.
hell i might even buy that fowling piece of his my self, but as a kit, it
is a fine looking gun.
YMHS,
"Ephraim"
Terry Landis
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 23:19:20 -0500
From: "James Sullivan" <jwsullivan@home.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: You ain't gonna believe!
Hello List and friends,
Today I went up to a mailing center to send out a Bess that a brother has
purchased from me. The people behind the counter were very interested in the
weapon and others in the shop asked about what it was and how it worked. I
obliged, of course, and we all had a great few moments.
When it was my turn in line, the person behind the counter said they would
have to check with UPS about the rules for guns and took down the info.
Well, I had it on good advice that there would be no problems. I had already
checked this out with others who had sent out guns (black powder) on a
regular basis.
Would you believe the guy at UPS told me under no circumstances would they
send a gun of any...any...kind out to anyone but a licenced gun dealer.
We're talking even a B-B gun!! Are we talking agenda? As I said, I checked
this out. There are others who send guns out on a regular basis with no
license to others with no license. Of course, tomorrow I'm calling and
checking with what I hope will be a higher up.
Trust me, I don't want to break any rules, but the gun will (!!!) go out to
the guy who bought it. (Don't worry, Deane, you'll get Bess by hook or
crook.) I just can't believe that things are coming down to this. Maybe I'm
just naive by wanting to be law-abiding and all. Maybe the lawyers and
politicians do have the right idea (and if one of you just happens to be one
of those, I'm not trying to start a fight) and just break or bend the rules
to suit themselves.
Sorry if some may think this long commentary a little off-topic, but I felt
I needed to share my experience with all of you. I truly hope this is just
an isolated incident, but you never can tell with the way things are going.
OK, now we can get back to business and those who wish may flame away!!
James Sullivan ALRA #78, COHT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 22:04:02 -0700
From: randybublitz@juno.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: You ain't gonna believe!
James, I've sent my firelock by UPS several times. When I attend an
event, which I will fly to, I send firearms UPS to friends nearby to
avoid airline hassles. I insure it, and state that it is a flintlock,
muzzle loading, smooth bore. Not,many UPS people have a clue what I am
talking about (and I don't smarten up chumps). If someone asks, I just
nonchalantley say it's a reproduction antique. The point is; keep them
in the dark, and insure it. Don't mention key words; gun-firearm-etc...
After a canoe trip to N. Dakota, my partner drove to town from his farm
and shipped it back home for me. On his way home he heard on the radio
that UPS went on Strike! Too late, he worried about it and called me.
I told him, don't worry it's as safe as if they weren't on strike. Sure
enough it showed up a few weeks later, after UPS settled the strike. I'm
just glad the strike happened after the event...no harm done. We
shouldn't have to worry about such things, being 'free' americans...but
we do! Motivate, fight back....write letters, etc... or we'll all be
without our beloved firelocks at events, because we just 'might' be
terrorists, right wing fanatics, ENEMIES OF THE STATE!!!! Instead of
freedom loving, history loving educators.... Don't let THEM decide what
you are.... I feel your frustration. Hardtack
Your Second Amendment Rights protect ALL of your other Rights, Don't give
up your Rights
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 01:27:41 EDT
From: RR1LA@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: You ain't gonna believe!
JW, Its pretty bizarre all right. In checking the websites, UPS
(www.ups.com) classifies firearms as prohibited goods and apparently will not
ship them at all. It was not always this way. FedEx (www.fedex.com) will ship
them via priority overnight delivery ONLY, and ONLY if the shipper OR
receiver is a LICENSED manufacturer, importer, dealer or collector.
It just another example of the ways things are headed. Yesterday here in LA
was another perfect example of peoples blindness. Some deranged idiot shoots
up a community center, and every politician and law enforcement officer talks
about guns and the need to eliminate them from society. NOT ONE talked about
the brain-damaged coward that did the shooting being eliminated from society
or punishing people (eliminating them from society) for improper use of
firearms such as robbery, etc.
TEDDY KENNEDY'S CAR AND JFK JR'S AIRPLANE HAVE KILLED MORE PEOPLE THAN MY
GUNS but Kennedy wants to ban guns. Go figure.
Only thing I can figure is to stockpile all necessary supplies (powder,
projectiles and guns while you can, and register the cheap shitty ones so you
can turn something in later. Not even sure that will help. Barney Fife
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 22:32:20 -0700
From: randybublitz@juno.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: You ain't gonna believe!
After thought..... this reminds me of when the A.M.M. was published (in
the L.A. times) at the end of a long list of "militia" groups. A bunch
of us were talking about it , and someone snickered "what are we gonna
do, take over the gov't with our flintlocks?" Someone else added
"It's happened at least once before!" This is an argument some
Liberal may use against us. Sound rediculous? How many other things
have transpired that at first sounded ridiculous? Forwarned is
forarmed. Our rights are being seriously threatened. Hardtack
Your Second Amendment Rights protect ALL of your other Rights, Don't
give up your Rights
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 22:38:42 -0700
From: randybublitz@juno.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: You ain't gonna believe!
Hell, come to think of it, the only guy I know of who has shot someone ,
did it by accident...... Sorry brother, couldn't resist....Hardtack
Your Second Amendment Rights protect ALL of your other Rights, Don't give
up your Rights
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 08:59:44 -0400
From: "Nelson, R Scott" <NELSORS@ch.etn.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: You ain't gonna believe!
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
James,
Since you are required to declare what is inside your package, just say
that it is "machined parts". You won't be lying!
-----Original Message-----
From: James Sullivan [SMTP:jwsullivan@home.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 11:19 PM
To: Native List; hist_text@lists.xmission.com; COHT; ALRA
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">MtMan-List: You ain't gonna =
believe!</FONT>
</P>
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:15:30 -0400
From: "Laura Glise" <lglise@bellsouth.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Firearms/building and repair
A couple of weeks ago someone posted to the list wanting the name of someone to assemble a rifle kit.
Steve Zihn repaired a badly damaged double-barrel shotgun for me three years ago at the Riverton, Wyoming 1838 Reenactment. He is reasonable, a fine craftsman and a nice guy.
Steve Zihn
112 Riggs Road
Shoshoni, WY 82649
307-856-6431
I recommend you send him your "machined parts" as Nelson coined the phrase.
