JW, Its pretty bizarre all right. In checking the websites, UPS
(www.ups.com) classifies firearms as prohibited goods and apparently will not
ship them at all. It was not always this way. FedEx (www.fedex.com) will ship
them via priority overnight delivery ONLY, and ONLY if the shipper OR
receiver is a LICENSED manufacturer, importer, dealer or collector.
It just another example of the ways things are headed. Yesterday here in LA
was another perfect example of peoples blindness. Some deranged idiot shoots
up a community center, and every politician and law enforcement officer talks
about guns and the need to eliminate them from society. NOT ONE talked about
the brain-damaged coward that did the shooting being eliminated from society
or punishing people (eliminating them from society) for improper use of
firearms such as robbery, etc.
TEDDY KENNEDY'S CAR AND JFK JR'S AIRPLANE HAVE KILLED MORE PEOPLE THAN MY
GUNS but Kennedy wants to ban guns. Go figure.
Only thing I can figure is to stockpile all necessary supplies (powder,
projectiles and guns while you can, and register the cheap shitty ones so you
can turn something in later. Not even sure that will help. Barney Fife
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:30:31 -0600
From: "L. A. Romsa" <LROMSA1@missc.state.wy.us>
Subject: MtMan-List: RE: Shipping Of Firearms
It is my understanding that Blackpowder guns are NOT considered firearms! =
That is why you can buy and sell and ship without a licence.
L.A. Romsa
------------------------------
Date: 12 Aug 1999 16:05:38 -0700
From: buck.conner@uswestmail.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: RE: Shipping Of Firearms
On Thu, 12 August 1999, "L. A. Romsa" wrote:
>
> It is my understanding that Blackpowder guns are NOT considered firearms! That is why you can buy and sell and ship without a licence.
> L.A. Romsa
.................................
I receive blackpowder firearms for customers all the time without even using my FFL, and UPS delivers them, boxes show picture of them or labeled on ends with a description. This is from several of the supply houses, who ever has the best price at the time.
In fact I have received 2 this week, a long gun with labeling on the end and a Ruger Old Army with the Ruger emblem on the brown box. Just sent Dennis Miles a rifle insured as that, with no problem a few months ago.
Find this subject strange as I mentioned this to Elliott Bros, House of Muskets, and several others when ordering parts this week, they have had no problems ????
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 19:08:29 -0400
From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: RE: Shipping Of Firearms
Rifle??? What rifle????
D
buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote:
> On Thu, 12 August 1999, "L. A. Romsa" wrote:
>
> >
> > It is my understanding that Blackpowder guns are NOT considered firearms! That is why you can buy and sell and ship without a licence.
> > L.A. Romsa
> .................................
> I receive blackpowder firearms for customers all the time without even using my FFL, and UPS delivers them, boxes show picture of them or labeled on ends with a description. This is from several of the supply houses, who ever has the best price at the time.
>
> In fact I have received 2 this week, a long gun with labeling on the end and a Ruger Old Army with the Ruger emblem on the brown box. Just sent Dennis Miles a rifle insured as that, with no problem a few months ago.
>
> Find this subject strange as I mentioned this to Elliott Bros, House of Muskets, and several others when ordering parts this week, they have had no problems ????
>
> Later,
> Buck Conner
> dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
> http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
> _____________________________________
> NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
> and early history of the times. AMM journal
>
> The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
> Conklin, MI 49403
> ATTN: Jon Link
>
> The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
> quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
> _____________________________________
>
>
>
> Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
- --
"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements
http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:15:58 -0700
From: "Rob Voyles" <whitesmoke@hotbot.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shipping of Firearms
Under Federal Law our muzzleloaders are not considered FIREARMS. They are classified by the government as ANTIQUE REPLICAS....Therefore they are not subject to gun control restrictions (so far).
UPS ought to ship it....but I'd just box it up and declare the contents as "ANTIQUE REPLICA" just as our own Government classifies them... You can't get in trouble that way. And your not even bending the truth.
Also, next time you call your buddies to go to the range, ask them if they wanna go to the ANTIQUE REPLICA range. See what they say......hehe
Rob Voyles (CA)
HotBot - Search smarter.
http://www.hotbot.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 19:34:59 -0400
From: ad.miller@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: RE: Shipping Of Firearms
*SNIP*
< you can buy and sell and ship without a licence.
L.A. Romsa
I am a licensed firearms dealer, amoung other things... As such, I am NOT
required to go thru any of the forms, or to registerr or report the
transaction, if someone buys a BP firearm from me. They are exempt (so far)
from any of the BATF rules. And, I can ship them to someone who is non FFL
holder.
Ad Miller
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:59:59 -0500
From: "northwoods" <northwoods@ez-net.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: You ain't gonna believe!
A few folks were having this discussion on the mlml a while back. Seems a
particular gentleman was having the same problems you described. If I
remember correctly a former U.P.S. employee stated that there are no regs.
prohibiting shipping a firearm of the type you described, which is not a
firearm as defined by law, but any particular U.P.S. employee who feels the
need to be a pain in the arse about it can refuse to. The gentleman who
couldn't get his gun shipped at the U.P.S counter just had a friend who had
them regularly pickup at his place of business send it.
Personally, I would go up the chain of command and politely but
persistently let my dissatisfaction be known. Like I said, to my knowledge
there are no U.P.S. Regs prohibiting shipping the firearm you mentioned, it
was just a case of that particular counterman being a jerk.
Good Luck,
Tony Clark
- -----Original Message-----
From: James Sullivan <jwsullivan@home.com>
To: Native List <NativeList@onelist.com>; hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>>Today I went up to a mailing center to send out a Bess that a brother h=
as
>>purchased from me. The people behind the counter were very interested i=
n
>the
>>weapon and others in the shop asked about what it was and how it worked=
. I
>>obliged, of course, and we all had a great few moments.
>>
>>When it was my turn in line, the person behind the counter said they wo=
uld
>>have to check with UPS about the rules for guns and took down the info.
>>Well, I had it on good advice that there would be no problems. I had
>already
>>checked this out with others who had sent out guns (black powder) on a
>>regular basis.
>>
>>Would you believe the guy at UPS told me under no circumstances would t=
hey
>>send a gun of any...any...kind out to anyone but a licenced gun dealer.
>>We're talking even a B-B gun!! Are we talking agenda? As I said, I chec=
ked
>>this out. There are others who send guns out on a regular basis with no
>>license to others with no license. Of course, tomorrow I'm calling and
>>checking with what I hope will be a higher up.
>>
>>Trust me, I don't want to break any rules, but the gun will (!!!) go ou=
t to
>>the guy who bought it. (Don't worry, Deane, you'll get Bess by hook or
>>crook.) I just can't believe that things are coming down to this. Maybe=
I'm
>>just naive by wanting to be law-abiding and all. Maybe the lawyers and
>>politicians do have the right idea (and if one of you just happens to b=
e
>one
>>of those, I'm not trying to start a fight) and just break or bend the r=
ules
>>to suit themselves.
>>
>>Sorry if some may think this long commentary a little off-topic, but I =
felt
>>I needed to share my experience with all of you. I truly hope this is j=
ust
>>an isolated incident, but you never can tell with the way things are go=
ing.
>>
>>OK, now we can get back to business and those who wish may flame away!!
>>
>>James Sullivan=A0=A0 ALRA #78, COHT
>>
>>
>>
>=20
Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 11:18:07 GMT
From: rparker7@ix.netcom.com (Roy Parker)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: steel wool
I haven't seen a reply to this, so here's a couple of thoughts.
Sandpaper was around at least by the 1700's. It was used in
Williamsburg VA prior to the Revolutionary war. A great substitute,
so I was told at the furniture maker there was sharkskin.
Steel wool was invented much later. I _think_ it is a 20th century
invention. I used to work summers at the Brillo factory in London,
Ohio helping make tons of the stuff. We were told some of the
equipment was from the original factory in Canada. Looking at the
hardware I'd guessed it was from 1920-1940 vintage. Sorry, but I
wasn't interested in 'old' things at the time.
On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:23:08 -0500, you wrote:
>Friends,
>Does anyone out there know when steel wool and sandpaper were invented?
>
>TIA,
>HBC
>
>****************************************
>Henry B. Crawford Box 43191
>Curator of History Museum of Texas Tech University
>mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Lubbock, TX 79409-3191
>806/742-2442 FAX 742-1136
> Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
>****** Living History . . . Because It's There ******
>
>
Roy Parker
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters
will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks =
to
the internet, we know this is not true.
=20
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:54:14 EDT
From: NaugaMok@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: You ain't gonna believe!
In a message dated 99-08-12 00:28:46 EDT, you write:
<< Would you believe the guy at UPS told me under no circumstances would they
send a gun of any...any...kind out to anyone but a licenced gun dealer.
We're talking even a B-B gun!! Are we talking agenda >>
Last look I had at the Fed Firearms regs said anything built before 1900 or a
replica thereof, was considered a "non-gun", therfore no restrictions on
shipping. Maybe we need to double check to be sure there hasn't been a
change in the last 6 months. We have to be aware there are people who are so
afraid or have such a hatred of firearms they ignore the laws, or are simply
uninformed. I'd think any supervisor for UPS should know what they can ship
& what they can't. I just checked the Fed Motor Carrier (DOT) regs, &
there's nothing there on firearms -- lotsa stuff on black powder & caps
(explosives), but not firearms.
NM
------------------------------
Date: 13 Aug 1999 07:12:33 -0700
From: buck.conner@uswestmail.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: steel wool
> On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:23:08 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >Friends,
> >Does anyone out there know when steel wool and sandpaper were invented?
> >
> >TIA,
> >HBC
> >
> >****************************************
> >Henry B. Crawford
Henry,
Mr. Vernon Bigsby at the Valley Forge Museum had written a paper probably 15-18 years ago on a coarse sharp edged screen that was used like sand paper in the smoothing of military weapons, could be flushed free of stock finish and reused. They had samples of the wire like material found at this site before the Rev. War.
Have read in an old Bannerman Brothers catalog of the use of steel wool being used at or right after the Civil War; from the description it sounded like it was wire-like turnings from a lathes when making barrel, axles, etc.
they used it to put a polish on the finished metal parts, like we would do today.
Will look for both of these and send you copies of both.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: 13 Aug 1999 10:04:58 -0700
From: buck.conner@uswestmail.net
Subject: MtMan-List: Second Amendment web page
Just received an interesting page with this site on the Second Amendment - check it out.
> http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb697717
>
> Interested in preserving, The Declaration of Independence, The Bill of
> Rights, The Constitution of the United States of America, and all it?s
> Amendments??
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:19:02 -0600
From: "Ron Chamberlain" <cstmzd@ida.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Shot size & small traps
Hello the list.
I just finished boring out my .50 caliber CVA Plains Pitol to a .54
smoothbore. Any ideas what size shot I should use in it for Grouse here in
SE Idaho? It has a very short barrel, 6 3/4" so won't be very accurate, but
should work for pine hens.
Also in BOB VI page 122 (?) it shows a small trap used for trapping small
game for food. Has anyone seen any documentation on trappers in the
Rockies, carrying a small trap for this use?
Thanks in advance!
Ron
cstmzd@ida.net
www.ida.net/users/cstmzd/trappers.html
"What part of: 'Thou Shalt not...' didn't you understand"?
GOD
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:39:08 -0600
From: Bill Klesinger <mtmanbk@earthlink.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Jim Baker
The Jim Baker Party web site is now open,,, check it out please reply
to
mailto:bill@klesinger.com
http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html
If anyone has information on Jim Baker the Mountain man please let me
know as I will be glad to post it to the site.
anyone that want me to link to their site I will be glad to do so just
send the URL (web address) to me at: mailto:bill@klesinger.com
thank
bill klesinger
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:35:27 -0400
From: ad.miller@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jim Baker
Now Bill, that was a fine a collection of reprobates as I have EVER seen
gathered in one place in all my life!! Kinda makes me afeared ta be lettin
ma woman out by herself at night!!
Ad
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 05:21:56 -0600
From: Bill Klesinger <mtmanbk@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jim Baker
You are supposed to put the dog out at night !!!! not the Woman...
Or do i have it wrong ;-}
ad.miller@mindspring.com wrote:
> Now Bill, that was a fine a collection of reprobates as I have EVER seen
> gathered in one place in all my life!! Kinda makes me afeared ta be lettin
> ma woman out by herself at night!!
>
> Ad
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 12:10:47 -0400
From: ad.miller@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jim Baker
Damn!! I knew I was doin something wrong!! heh... Now I don't have to
smell that darn dogs breath at night and can have my woman in bed with me...
Makes more sense that way....
Seriously... great site!! Loved all the pix... Sure wish it was still that
way.... *sigh*
Check my site.... http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Geyser/3216 I'd like to
link with yours if thats ok...
Ad Miller
------------------------------
Date: 15 Aug 1999 05:38:59 -0700
From: <turtle@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jim Baker
On Fri, 13 August 1999, Bill Klesinger wrote:
> The Jim Baker Party web site is now open,,, check it out please reply to mailto: bill@klesinger.com
>
> http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html
>
_____________________________________
Bill,
Looks like you guys are going to "shine" when the Baker Party page is done, Buck told me it would be Colorado area only, those that came, passed through or had dealings in.
That's an excellent idea for each state party to consider,(the Baker Party came up with a good one)it would sure make it much easier down the road for everyone when researching a location as to what went on. This is a neat way of looking at ones own state, thanks.
Turtle.
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
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