From: "Sickler, Louis L" <louis.l.sickler@lmco.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: shooting bag
Ho the List,
Lots of great stuff in this thread. Most everything mentioned seems pretty
standard as they are requirements for shooting and cleaning any charcoal
burner. One thing I carry that I have not seen mentioned is a cow's knee. I
find that it is usually rainy here during muzzleloading elk season,
especially in the Bayou Salade. I credit this item with more than one year
of feasting on FAT COW.
As of yet, I do not cast my own balls, but I can see the historical
correctness and esthetic pleasure it must bring while yarnin around the
fire. My question, are the Rapine molds the ones to buy, or are there better
ones to be had?
Thanks in advance,
Lou Sickler
Colorado Territory
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Farseer [SMTP:farseer@swbell.net]
> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 7:50 PM
> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: shooting bag
>
> This is a great thread!!!! Gotta admit, as a greenhorn, I'm still
> picking
> up on tips and tricks, and this has been fascinating.
>
> Todd
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 21:41:53 -0400
From: ad.miller@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag
<SNIP>
One thing I carry that I have not seen mentioned is a cow's knee. I
find that it is usually rainy here during muzzleloading elk season,
especially in the Bayou Salade. I credit this item with more than one year
of feasting on FAT COW.
==========================
Ok, I gotta ask...... What is a Cows Knee? I am aware of what the joint
looks like, if you are refering to the actual knee of a cow... If so, what
or how is it used??
Addison
------------------------------
Date: 6 Aug 1999 07:43:10 -0700
From: concho@uswestmail.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag
> > > When you give this some thought and consider everything Charlie mentioned, many of us believe he's probably correct in his thinking on these two items. So, put the mold and lead bar in the bed roll, haversack, pack, etc. they wouldn't help in a fight or killing game, yes a valuable item, just stored in the wrong location.
> > >
> > > Later,
> > > Buck Conner
>
> ..............................................
> If you close your eyes and let your mind wonder, you too may see what many can invision, a camp fire with figures sitting around, a closer look at this scene, the faces become clearer and right in the middle sits Old Charley asking questions, taking notes and living on every word of passed adventures, as names of men and their deeds come together.
>
> AND PROBABLY A FEW ARE CASTING BALL ALONG WITH THE STORY TELLING.
>
> God Bless these men of adventure. ôWaughö
>
Buck,
I have always liked the statement above that you wrote at the time of Charley's passing, brother I bet he's getting an ear full from those that where there. You can bet he's documenting every little item these guys used and carried. Thanks for sharing that part of his "tribute" from the past.
I wish we would have done as you, and spent as much time as possible at the museum - again you where right, and I couldn't hear what you where telling me, and now "THE MAN" is gone.
___________________________________
Take care, folks
D.L."Concho"Smith + Washington, MO. +
"One who favors the finer things in life"
___________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: 6 Aug 1999 07:52:16 -0700
From: concho@uswestmail.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag
On Wed, 04 August 1999, ad.miller@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
>
> One thing I carry that I have not seen mentioned is a cow's knee. I
> find that it is usually rainy here during muzzleloading elk season,
> especially in the Bayou Salade. I credit this item with more than one year
> of feasting on FAT COW.
>
> ==========================
>
> Ok, I gotta ask...... What is a Cows Knee? I am aware of what the joint
> looks like, if you are refering to the actual knee of a cow... If so, what
> or how is it used??
>
> Addison
A cow's knee son,
Is a leather cover that cover's the lock area of you gun, many old one's where made from the back leg of a cow - thus the name "cow's knee". They are held in place with a thong or two and well greased to provide a waterproof cover - keeping this area clean and function ready. A gentlemen(one of wealth)would have a fancy tooled one made of commerical tanned leather, use to be a real nice one at the museum in Chardon, NE.
___________________________________
Take care, folks
D.L."Concho"Smith + Washington, MO. +
"One who favors the finer things in life"
___________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 08:59:57 -0600
From: "Sickler, Louis L" <louis.l.sickler@lmco.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: shooting bag
Addison,
Sorry for not being more explicit, thought everyone would know what I was
talking about. I should know better than to ASSume.
A cow's knee is a heavily greased leather device that is shaped to conform
to the lock area of a flinter (or capgun). The shape IS reminiscent of the
real thing when it's all done. It can be tied, buttoned or whatever to cover
the lock area to keep out moisture. I think I copied the one in George
Laycock's book, The Mountain Men. A simple pattern can be made by laying
your rifle on a piece of brown wrapping paper and roughly tracing around the
lock area and down wide enough to wrap almost all the way around the stock.
This should cover your lock and extend toward wrist and forearm an inch or
two either side.Then cut two pieces of leather from this pattern and sew
together. You'll now see the cow's knee shape.
I put two antler tips on one side and two loops on the other to kind of
button the bottom together, but still be able to remove quickly if the
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:18:33 -0700
From: Pat Quilter <pat_quilter@qscaudio.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Rice
"Edward Warren" (Drummond Stewart's recollections in semi-novel form)
mentioned a "pilaff" which a footnote identified as a rice dish, prepared
some days after leaving the settlements for the Rockies (from St Louis area)
which presumably used up supplies brought at the start. Not relevant to the
Southern Rockies as requested, but I thought I'd throw it in.
Pat Quilter
- -----Original Message-----
From: bvannoy [mailto:bvannoy@mciworld.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 5:55 PM
To: MtMan-List
Subject: MtMan-List: Rice
Does anyone have information on the documentation of rice usage in the
Spanish Borderlands. How about the by the Mountaineers of the Southern
Rockies??
Chases Hawks
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 12:11:18 -0500
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Glue stick
Lanney,
It is true that thin sheets of mica when used as windows in carriages and
stoves were called isinglass. The more common usage and probably older u=
se
was
in reference to the glue made from the air bladder of sturgeons.
I am not aware of a current source for isinglass. The last industry I kn=
ow to
use it on a regular basis was for the manufacture of split tonkin cane fl=
y
rods. The Leonard Rod Company was the last to convert to modern glue so =
they
may have a source. As so much trade is presently coming from Russia and =
they
have so many sturgeon maybe one of the importers is bringing some in.
You might try using rabbit skin glue (from an artist supply house) in
combination with ground or pearled hide glue and see what happens. =20
John...
At 06:51 AM 8/6/99 -0500, you wrote:
>John
>Great receipt.=A0 Sounds like my ex-wife's gravy...don't ask about her
biscuits.=A0=A0 I have always been told that isinglass is the mineral mic=
a, but in
the Noah Webster 1828 dictionary we find this entry:
>
>I'SINGLASS, n. i'zinglass. [that is, ise or ice-glass.]
>A substance consisting chiefly of gelatin, of a firm texture and whitish
color, prepared from the sounds or air-bladders of certain fresh water fi=
shes,
particularly of the huso, a fish of the sturgeon kind, found in the river=
s of
Russia.=A0 It is used as an agglutinant and in fining wines.
>
>I wonder what available substance would substitute?=A0=A0 The word "I'SI=
NGLASS"=A0
is used elsewhere in the dictionary in the following entries: (note the
mention
of fish glue)
>
>ICHTHYOCOL'LA, n. [Gr. a fish, and glue.]=A0 Fish-glue; isinglass; a glu=
e
prepared from the sounds of fish.
>
>BIRDS'NEST, n. [bird and nest.]=A0 The nest in which a bird lays eggs an=
d
hatches her young.
>1.=A0 A plant, a species of Ophrys or twyblade; also a species of Orchis.
>2.=A0 In cookery, the nest of a small swallow, of China, and the neighbo=
ring
countries, delicately tasted,and mixed with soups. This nest is found in =
the
rocks; it is of a hemispherical figure, of the size of a goose egg, and i=
n
substance resembles isinglass.=A0 In the East, these nests are esteemed a=
great
luxury, and sell at a very high price.
>
>BLANC-MANGER, pron. blomonge.=A0 In cookery, a preparation of dissolved
isinglass, milk, sugar, cinnamon, &c., boiled into a thick consistence,an=
d
garnished for the table with blanched almonds.
>
>CARLOCK, n.=A0 A sort of isinglass from Russia, made of the sturgeons bl=
adder,
and used in clarifying wine.
>
>CLARIFIER, n.
>1.=A0 That which clarifies or purifies; as, whites of eggs, blood and is=
inglass
are clarifiers of liquors.
>
>COLLIGATE, v.t.=A0 To tie or bind together.
>The pieces of isinglass are colligated in rows.
>
>HU'SO, n. A fish of the genus Accipenser, whose mouth is in the under pa=
rt of
the head; the body is naked, or without prickles or protuberances. It gro=
ws to
the length of twenty four feet, and its skin is so tough that it is used =
for
ropes in drawing wheel-carriages. It inhabits the Danube and the rivers o=
f
Russia, and of its sounds is made isinglass.
>
>WAFER, n.
>1. A thin cake or leaf; as a wafer of bread given by the Romanists in th=
e
Eucharist.
>2. A thin leaf of paste, or a composition of flour, the white of eggs,
isinglass and yeast, spread over with gumwater and dried; used in sealing
letters.
>
>YMOS
>Lanney Ratcliff
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----=20
>From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
>To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
>Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 11:04 PM
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Glue stick
>
>
>An 1820's receipt.
>_______________________________________
>"TO MAKE PORTABLE GLUE
>
>Take 1 lb of the best glue, boil and strain it very clear; boil likewise=
4
>oz. of isinglass, put it in a double glue-pot, with =BD lb. of fine brow=
n
>sugar, and boil it pretty thick; then pour it into moulds; when cold, cu=
t
>and dry them in small pieces.=A0 This glue is very useful to draughtsmen=
,
>architects, etc., as it immediately dilutes in warm water, and fastens t=
he
>paper without the process of damping."
>___________________________________________
>
>This could also be called mouth glue.=A0=A0 Will fasten more than paper.
>
>John...
>
>At 07:48 PM 8/5/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>I took a 1/4" stick and dipped it in warm hide glue then lightly dusted
>>with powdered charcoal.=A0 Then I dipped it again and powdered again an=
d
>>so on and so on etc...etc..
>>letting it dry partially after about 10 or so dippings.=A0 Build up a
>>large ball of the mixture so it looks like a mutated Q-tip.=A0 Let dry
>>completely.=A0 A large amount of shrinkage will occur.=A0 The charcoal =
adds
>>some tooth to the glue for adhesion.=A0 Simply place the glue stick in =
a
>>very small amount of warm water to reconstitute and use for minor glue
>>repairs.
>>=20
>Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
>John Kramer=A0 <kramer@kramerize.com>
>=20
John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0
Kramer's Best Antique Improver
>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<<
<http://www.kramerize.com/>
mail to: <kramer@kramerize.com>=20
------------------------------
Date: 6 Aug 1999 10:30:53 -0700
From: buck.conner@uswestmail.net
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Rice
On Fri, 06 August 1999, Pat Quilter wrote:
> "Edward Warren" (Drummond Stewart's recollections in semi-novel form mentioned a "pilaff" which a footnote identified as a rice dish, prepared some days after leaving the settlements for the Rockies (from St Louis area) which presumably used up supplies brought at the start. Not relevant to the Southern Rockies as requested, but I thought I'd throw it in.
Pat Quilter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bvannoy [mailto:bvannoy@mciworld.com]
> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 5:55 PM
> To: MtMan-List
> Subject: MtMan-List: Rice
>
>
> Does anyone have information on the documentation of rice usage in the
> Spanish Borderlands. How about the by the Mountaineers of the Southern
> Rockies??
> Chases Hawks
...............................................
The source material was taken from a :
DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE REPORT, 1870. WASHINGTON,D.C.
This report represents native products important to Indian economy and often used as a source of supply by government agents, merchants, fur traders and travelers across North
America.
Wild rice called pshu by the Sioux, and the Chippewas refer to it as man-om-in. It is a constant article of food with the Northern Indians of the lakes and rivers between the
Mississippi and Lake Superior. This plant delights in mud and water five to twenty feet deep. When ripe the slightest wind shakes off the grains.
After being gathered it is laid on scaffolds about four feet high, eight wide, and twenty to fifty long, covered with reeds and grass, and a slow fire is maintained beneath for thirty-six hours, so as to parch slightly the husk, that it may be removed easily. Its beard is tougher than a rye. To separate it from the chaff or husk, a hole is made in the ground a foot wide and one deep, and lined with skins; about a peck of rice is put in at a time; an Indian steps in, with a half jump, on one foot, then on the other, until the husk is removed.
After being cleaned the grain is stored in bags. It is darker than the Caroline rice. The hull adheres tightly, and is left on the grain, and gives the bread a dark color when cooked. The husk is easily removed, after being exposed to heat. In Dakota the men gather this grain, but all other grain the women collect. An acre of rice is nearly or quite equal to an acre of wheat in nutriment. It is very palatable, when roasted and eaten dry.
............................................
And like most government reports it's at least 40 years late, so the date is probably later than the information gathered.
Rice like many other items was used for trade on most of the trade routes, haven't been able to find a report that was from Bent's Fort mentioning "wild brown rice being not the quality of the imported Mexican rice", will keep looking. Don Keas may have this report or know what book it was in !
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: 6 Aug 1999 10:45:03 -0700
From: <turtle@uswestmail.net>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Rice
Between John K., Dave K. and Buck C. to name a few, all I do is file their information - what the hell will we do when these guys and gals are retired and put all their time to this list !!! I'll have to get a new computer with one heck of a memory bank. You guys are great for a resource with your knowledge and Mr. Hanson's and others information.
Thanks
Turtle.
>
> On Fri, 06 August 1999, Pat Quilter wrote:
> > "Edward Warren" (Drummond Stewart's recollections in semi-novel form mentioned a "pilaff" which a footnote identified as a rice dish, prepared some days after leaving the settlements for the Rockies (from St Louis area) which presumably used up supplies brought at the start. Not relevant to the Southern Rockies as requested, but I thought I'd throw it in.
> Pat Quilter
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bvannoy [mailto:bvannoy@mciworld.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 5:55 PM
> > To: MtMan-List
> > Subject: MtMan-List: Rice
> >
> >
> > Does anyone have information on the documentation of rice usage in the
> > Spanish Borderlands. How about the by the Mountaineers of the Southern
> > Rockies??
> > Chases Hawks
> ...............................................
> On Fri, 06 August 1999, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> The source material was taken from a :
> DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE REPORT, 1870. WASHINGTON,D.C.
>
> This report represents native products important to Indian economy and often used as a source of supply by government agents, merchants, fur traders and travelers across North
> America.
>
> Wild rice called pshu by the Sioux, and the Chippewas refer to it as man-om-in. It is a constant article of food with the Northern Indians of the lakes and rivers between the
> Mississippi and Lake Superior. This plant delights in mud and water five to twenty feet deep. When ripe the slightest wind shakes off the grains.
>
> After being gathered it is laid on scaffolds about four feet high, eight wide, and twenty to fifty long, covered with reeds and grass, and a slow fire is maintained beneath for thirty-six hours, so as to parch slightly the husk, that it may be removed easily. Its beard is tougher than a rye. To separate it from the chaff or husk, a hole is made in the ground a foot wide and one deep, and lined with skins; about a peck of rice is put in at a time; an Indian steps in, with a half jump, on one foot, then on the other, until the husk is removed.
>
> After being cleaned the grain is stored in bags. It is darker than the Caroline rice. The hull adheres tightly, and is left on the grain, and gives the bread a dark color when cooked. The husk is easily removed, after being exposed to heat. In Dakota the men gather this grain, but all other grain the women collect. An acre of rice is nearly or quite equal to an acre of wheat in nutriment. It is very palatable, when roasted and eaten dry.
> ............................................
>
> And like most government reports it's at least 40 years late, so the date is probably later than the information gathered.
>
> Rice like many other items was used for trade on most of the trade routes, haven't been able to find a report that was from Bent's Fort mentioning "wild brown rice being not the quality of the imported Mexican rice", will keep looking. Don Keas may have this report or know what book it was in !
>
>
>
> Later,
> Buck Conner
> dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
> http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
> _____________________________________
> NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
> and early history of the times. AMM journal
>
> The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
> Conklin, MI 49403
> ATTN: Jon Link
>
> The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
> quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
> _____________________________________
>
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 14:26:53 -0400
From: Bob Spencer <bspen@aye.net>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: shooting bag
> Ok, I gotta ask...... What is a Cows Knee? I am aware of what the joint
> looks like, if you are refering to the actual knee of a cow... If so, what
> or how is it used??
Not actually a cow's knee, just resembles one. There are some pictures of a
cow's knee and some of my thoughts about flintlocks in wet weather at:
http://members.aye.net/~bspen/wetflints.html
Bob
Bob Spencer <bspen@aye.net>
Louisville, KY
http://members.aye.net/~bspen/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 14:10:27 -0600
From: Bill Klesinger <mtmanbk@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Glue stick
John
you lost me on all of the ingredients ?
is this a fur trade item?
would it or could it have been used by the trappers?
your recipe looks good but is it something I would use in the field?
I make hide glue sticks, much the same way as outlined in the original po=
st,
just dip a stick in warm glue, cool and redip.. I have never had a need f=
or it
but they make interesting trinkets to give away !
Another method is to just pour warm glue on a piece of tin (with a light =
