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hist_text-digest        Friday, August 6 1999        Volume 01 : Number 345



In this issue:

-áááááá MtMan-List: Glue stick
-áááááá MtMan-List: Rice
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Books
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: shooting bag
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: shooting bag
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: shooting bag
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: TVM Pistol
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List:Containing liquids
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: osage orange
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Glue stick
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: shooting bag
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Glue stick
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 19:48:29 -0500
From: bvannoy <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Glue stick

I took a 1/4" stick and dipped it in warm hide glue then lightly dusted
with powdered charcoal.  Then I dipped it again and powdered again and
so on and so on etc...etc..
letting it dry partially after about 10 or so dippings.  Build up a
large ball of the mixture so it looks like a mutated Q-tip.  Let dry
completely.  A large amount of shrinkage will occur.  The charcoal adds
some tooth to the glue for adhesion.  Simply place the glue stick in a
very small amount of warm water to reconstitute and use for minor glue
repairs.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 19:55:22 -0500
From: bvannoy <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Rice

Does anyone have information on the documentation of rice usage in the
Spanish Borderlands.  How about the by the Mountaineers of the Southern
Rockies??
Chases Hawks

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:15:30 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Books

> Dave I have an article done by Brook Ellitt on "care of cast iron
cookware",
> very well done - ran it in one of our cataolgs a few years ago. Can post it
> on this hist_list if interested.

Buck,
Brook and I are on a couple of other lists together.  We generally agree to
disagree with one another.  <G>  Seriously though, Brook has written some
good stuff which I imagine others would be interested in and some might learn
from it.

Maybe I'll dig out my infamous Peanut Butter and Jelly Cobbler recipe and
post it.
Trouble is, most of my recipes are done on the spur of the moment and then I
fergit to write em down.  Everybody raves about my cooking and when they want
to know what's in it, I usually don't have a clue.

Dave Kanger

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:55:12 -0700
From: "larry pendleton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag

Turtle,
  Your exactly right about carrying only what you use.  Every year or so, I
empty out my shooting bag and haversack, scatter out the contents in the
living room floor, and go through them one by one and say " When was the
last time I used that ? "  When I first did that it was amazing how much
stuff I was carrying that I never used.  The only issue with the bullet mold
is, in our historical time period, it was most often carried in the shooting
bag, probably because it was an item that could not be replaced very easily.
  The bags I have been making the last few years have been recreations of
bags that are illustrated in Madison Grant's book.  I learned a long tome
ago that when you stray from the designs and the dimensions of the
originals, you are making a large mistake.  Those guys did this stuff for a
living, and their gear had to work for them.
  I would love to see a picture or sketch of the bag that Buck mentioned.  I
never miss the chance to look at original bags and powder horns.
YMOS,
Pendleton
- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Thursday, August 05, 1999 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag


>Larry,
>  The bag Buck mentioned (the original of William Potts), I got to copy and
have used for about 12 years now. I guess Buck was right in copying one that
was used as a daily tool for the man's livelyhood.  For years I carried a
number of extra items, then it was suggested to make a list on a 10 day
canoe trip of everything I used - anything that was not listed was left at
home from then on, funny after a few years I traded much of that stuff off.
In this hobby it seems we get into gathering gadgets, and neat items, then
half of them just sit around.
>
>  When Buckhorn Rendezvous was still operating, they would have a garage
sale once a year of new items, Buck said they where things that him and Ben
thought where great, but turned out they where the only ones that thought
so. They would have tables full of stuff from local buckskinners that
decided they no longer needed items once carried in their haversacks or
shooting bags. We all need to do as I was told, "make a list of what you
use, and how often, then can one item be used for several jobs - if so leave
the dupliate at home".
>  Turtle.
>
>
>> On Wed, 04 August 1999, "larry pendleton" wrote:
>> Guys,
>>   This discussion on shooting bags is great !  My gear inside the bag
hasn't
>> changed much in the last few years, but I seem to build a new bag every
>> years or so.  The bag I am currently using is made of braintan deeskin,
>> which was not broken quite as well as it should have been.  It is still
>> quite soft but has more body to it than braintan that is done really
well.
>> The bag is a simple single pouch with no gusset, but it is sewn with a
welt.
>> It measures 8 1/2 X 9 inches.  The flap is double thickness of the
braintan
>> with a button to hold it closed.  It has a single small pocket which
carries
>> a cleaning jag, an extra flint, a few patches, and a small oak twig that
is
>> whittled to fit as a plug for the touch hole which is used when I wash
the
>> bore of my rifle.   In the main part of the bag there is a small bag that
>> holds about ten round balls.  I carry a separate bullet pouch for the
bulk
>> of my amunition.  It either hangs from a separate strap or from my belt.
I
>> find I can load faster with this arrangement.  The rest of the gear
includes
>> : forged pliers, forged screwdriver-flint knapper, fire steel, flint, bag
of
>> tow, bag of extra gun flints, deerskin wallet that holds extra jags a tow
>> worm and ball puller, folding knife, rolls of ticking strips used for
>> patching, a can of grease used for lubing patches and the bore of my
rifle,
>> and a small brass tube that contains bear oil for oiling the lock.  My
>> powder measure hangs from the neck of my powder horn, and the vent pick
is
>> carried in the patchbox.   My patch knife is attached to the back of the
>> bag.
>>   I carry the bullet mold, ladle, and lead in my haversack.  Where to
carry
>> these items has always been somewhat of a dilema.  It seems the bullet
mold
>> was most often carried in the shooting bag, but it is of no use without
the
>> ladle and lead and that is more weight than I want to carry in the
shooting
>> bag.  What to do ?
>>   This how I carry my stuff, and it works pretty well for me.   How one
uses
>> a shooting bag  and other accoutrements is a very individual thing.  What
>> works for one person may or may not work for the next.
>> Pendleton
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>> To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>> Date: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 12:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag
>>
>>
>> >On Wed, 04 August 1999, "john c. funk,jr" wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Buck,
>> >>
>> >> Fascinating !!!!  What were the dimensions of the bag?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: <[e-mail]>
>> >> To: <[e-mail]>
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 12:15 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > On Wed, 04 August 1999, bvannoy wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Allen,
>> >> > >
>> >> > >     I carry the usual stuff in a large oiltan double pouch with a
few
>> >> > > additions.  A pair of handforged pliers ( good for pulling thorns
to
>> >> > > holding balls to trim sprues), a handforged screwdriver, a horn
>> funnel,
>> >> > > and a hide glue stick for repairs.  In my bad's divider I've sewn
>> loops
>> >> > > for my tools and such.  Much easier to find in the dark and beats
>> >> > > digging at the bottom of my bag.  No telling what resides down
>> >> > > there!<bg>
>> >> > >  Bill "Chases Hawks" Vannoy
>> >> > ----------------------------------------
>> >> > This is part of an article that will appear in T&LR in the near
future.
>> >> > ----------------------------------------
>> >> > I now have a small bag copied from one a hunter from Pottstown PA
>> carried
>> >> as part of his profession for a 28 years career from 1787 to 1815.
>> >> >
>> >> > For contents, I found his wares to be very interesting, knowing it
>> >> belonged and was designed by one that worked with it every day as a
tool
>> of
>> >> his trade.
>> >> >
>> >> > Lets start with the small tin containers; 1-3/4 X 4-1/2 X 1-1/4
inches,
>> >> hinged on the end with a simple pressurer clip to keep the lid
secured.
>> >> >
>> >> > Inside - container #1: brained deer hide liner used to keep other
items
>> >> > from making noise, (1) combination screwdriver-knapper, (1) vent
>> >> pick-handforged,  (1) iron ball jag, (1) tow worm, (1) handforged
small
>> nail
>> >> used to insert in small hole in ramrod if rod became stuck, (1) small
>> >> folding pocket knife, (2) flicker feathers used to plug vent hole in
bad
>> >> weather, (1) small brass bell with leather thong-apparently this
hunter
>> had
>> >> a dog for his companion. Oh, almost forgot (1) small round tin
container
>> >> apprx. 7/8 dia. X 3/4 inches deep-used for patch lube and lip baum.
>> >> >
>> >> > Inside - container #2: brained deer hide liner used to keep other
items
>> >> from making noise, (6) small handforged fishing hooks with tappered
end,
>> >> > (4) small [.29 cal.] round balls-weights, (2) corncob floats, (2) 6
>> foot
>> >> pieces of linen thread, (4) horsehair leaders, (1) small round tin 3/4
X
>> 3/4
>> >> inches-bees wax, (2) handmade sewing needles, (3) thin leather thongs,
>> and
>> >> (2) iron blanket pins 1-1/2 inches in dia.
>> >> >
>> >> > Contents in back pocket: roll of pillow ticking-.012 thickness,
small
>> >> handmade bottle of cleaner, small short starter, flint wallet with
small
>> >> > turn screw and vent pick, brained deer hide ball bag-20 /.435 round
>> balls.
>> >> >
>> >> > On the back of the back pocket is a rawhide sheath with a 10 inch
>> overall
>> >> length butcher knife.
>> >> >
>> >> > Contents in front pocket: (1) 3 hole bullet board with thong
attached
>> to
>> >> an adjustable powder measurer, (1) small oval tin 3 X 4 X 3/4 inches
with
>> >> 3-1/2 X 1 inch striker, (3) flint flakes, tow, tin of char, and (6)
>> sulfer
>> >> matches, container again lined with brained deer hide. (1) small
>> handforged
>> >> single jaw trap [muskrat], wooden cased compass 2 X 2 X 7/8
>> >> > inches, (3) bees wax candles wrapped in linen cloth,
>> >> > (1) small wooden salt barrel 3/4 X 2 inches, and (1) 2 piece turkey
>> wing
>> >> bone call.
>> >> >
>> >> > This is very interesting that such a small pouch of the day - 1787
to
>> >> > 1815 is so compact and only the needed items to perform his tasks
are
>> >> used, every item was needed in his daily survival and gathering of
game.
>> >> >
>> >> > Note things like bullet molds, ladels, lead bar, pipes-tobacco, etc.
>> are
>> >> items cached or left at his residents in the settlements.
>> >> >
>> >> > Something we found interesting in his journal was the mention of not
>> using
>> >> tobacco, feeling that the odor from such activity would hamper his
>> ability
>> >> to get close to game.
>> >> > -----------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> > Later,
>> >> > Buck Conner
>> >-----------------------------------
>> >John,
>> >Your going to have me end up putting the whole article on here.
>> >
>> >His bag small by some folks standards, 8-1/2 X 9 inches made of
>> >commerical cow hide, dark brown in color with a wide strap of 1-1/2
>> >inches with a handforged buckle for adjustment of the length and made of
>> >tightely woven linen in forest colors, now dull from useage and age. The
>> >bag has a 2" gusset with a divider making two compartments (lined with
>> >linen material), there are to small leather pockets attached to the back
>> >of the bag - used to hold to small tin containers.
>> >
>> >All seams are welted, even the edge of the flap that is covered with
>> >linen on the inside and having a narrow welted slit to make a storage
>> >area for patching material. A clever idea that one should consider when
>> >building his next pouch, making easy access to your shooting and
>> >cleaning material, as well as adding weight to the flap to keep it in
>> >place - flap has a tong used to sucure it to the pewter button attached
>> >at the bottom of the bag. This will give you a pretty good idea of the
>> >appearance and how this bag is set up.
>> >-----------------------------------
>> >Later,
>> >Buck Conner
>
>
>Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:49:38 -0500
From: "Farseer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: shooting bag

This is a great thread!!!!   Gotta admit, as a greenhorn, I'm still picking
up on tips and tricks, and this has been fascinating.

Todd

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:52:01 -0500
From: "Farseer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: shooting bag

What do most folks use as vials for holding gun oil, and I saw someone said
cleaner as well?    Like to find something authentic, and leakproof, yet
small enough to carry.   I have a Ted Cash one drop oiler I keep in the my
gun box, but I'm pretty certain that o-ring sealed cans are a little late
for the time period I'm wanting to play in.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of
> [e-mail]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 3:06 PM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag
>
>
> Last year goin to tha Alafia, I committed a MORTAL SIN!!!  Somehow my
> "halfhimers" caught up with me, and I FORGOT my possibles bag!!!
> Everyting
> else made it in tha big metal covered wagon I haul all this stuff
> with, but
> my possibles bag got left on the wall.....
>
> Bein the resourceful person that I am, I done got me a moccasin grade side
> of elk and commenced to workin on it.  In a couple of hours (I'm
> slow when I
> want it done right) I hade a right passable possible bag.   It's
> about 7" by
> 9", double pocket with 2 smaller pockets sewn inside, and a large
> over flap.
> For weight to keep the flap shut, I sewed a pewter Ronnyvous medallion on
> it.  In it is my forged pliers, 50 - .50 cal ball, forged knapper
> and screw
> driver, 4 pre-lubed rolls of patching, worm and etc..., flint
> wallet, a few
> extra hide thongs, spring clamp, a plaion old rag, a small vial
> of gun oil,
> plain dry patches fer swabbin, a small vial of bore cleaner, a
> patch knife,
> and hangin on a thong are my pan primer and a vent pick/brush combo.
>
> I'm gonna use your idea and sew some loops on the inside to hold the tools
> instead of letting them just lay in the bottom of the bag...
>
> Addison Miller
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:53:42 -0500
From: "Farseer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: shooting bag

I think it's a great idea.    I've worked at a local Rennaissance Festival
for 14 years now (finally got tired of it, and workin my way forward a bit
in time as it were), and the Rennie Rummage Sale always is welcome.  One
mans castoffs are anothers treasure, and I've found some wonderful bits at
those sales.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of
> [e-mail]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 3:19 PM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag
>
>
>
> They would have tables full of stuff from local buckskinners that decided
> they no longer needed items once carried in their haversacks or shooting
> bags. We all need to do as I was told, "make a list of what you
> use, and how
> often, then can one item be used for several jobs - if so leave
> the dupliate
> at home".
> >  Turtle.
> >
>
> That would be a heck of an idea for the list.... Put our "extra stuff" up
> for sale, trade, whatever...  Again, if anyone would like, I'll
> make a page
> on my site, accessable by this list only, and you can put a pix and a
> description with the price and your email address.  No charge...
> just trying
> to help everyone out...
>
> Let me know what you think...
>
> Addison Miller
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:01:16 -0500
From: "Farseer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: TVM Pistol

Sorry to ask dumb questions, but where can you get moose milk, besides
Friendship (leastwise, I saw it there).  Is Thompson Centers No 13 at all
comparable?  I use it for cleaning and swabbing, but not for a lube.   Will
it even work as a lube?  Reckon I can try it out tomorrow evening instead of
asking dumb questions, huh?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of [e-mail]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 1:34 AM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: TVM Pistol
>
>
> Allen, et al:  I have found the same as you... TVM (Jack Garner)
> makes a fine
> product. I have both the Kentucky Pistol and Southern Poor Boy
> Rifle in .54,
> and the rifle took 1st in a trail walk the first time out.
> Pistol needed a
> bit of sighting but is VERY accurate at 25 yds. I would highly
> recommend all
> of Jacks products.
>
> My shooting bag is a double pocketed elk hide about 9 x 10, with
> a red wool
> heart inset in the flap. Its contents vary with the gun(s) I'm
> carrying.  For
> my TVM Rifle / Pistol I carry about 30 balls in .530, tin can
> full of .010
> patches soaked in Moose Milk and a small corked tin bottle of
> Moose Milk for
> lubing and swabbing, along with a set of flinters tools, ram rod
> attachments
> and small flints pouch. The strap holds my patch knife, powder
> measure and
> ball starter.   Barney Fife
>
> "GIVE a man a fish and he'll eat for a day; TEACH a man to fish
> and he'll sit
> in a boat and drink beer for the rest of his life."  Book of Fish 24:7
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 23:05:30 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Dennis Miles)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag

I use a Sargents bottle from Pete Gobel to keep a little whale oil in. Has
worked for years without complaint.
D

Farseer wrote:

> What do most folks use as vials for holding gun oil, and I saw someone said
> cleaner as well?    Like to find something authentic, and leakproof, yet
> small enough to carry.   I have a Ted Cash one drop oiler I keep in the my
> gun box, but I'm pretty certain that o-ring sealed cans are a little late
> for the time period I'm wanting to play in.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [e-mail]
> > [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of
> > [e-mail]
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 3:06 PM
> > To: [e-mail]
> > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag
> >
> >
> > Last year goin to tha Alafia, I committed a MORTAL SIN!!!  Somehow my
> > "halfhimers" caught up with me, and I FORGOT my possibles bag!!!
> > Everyting
> > else made it in tha big metal covered wagon I haul all this stuff
> > with, but
> > my possibles bag got left on the wall.....
> >
> > Bein the resourceful person that I am, I done got me a moccasin grade side
> > of elk and commenced to workin on it.  In a couple of hours (I'm
> > slow when I
> > want it done right) I hade a right passable possible bag.   It's
> > about 7" by
> > 9", double pocket with 2 smaller pockets sewn inside, and a large
> > over flap.
> > For weight to keep the flap shut, I sewed a pewter Ronnyvous medallion on
> > it.  In it is my forged pliers, 50 - .50 cal ball, forged knapper
> > and screw
> > driver, 4 pre-lubed rolls of patching, worm and etc..., flint
> > wallet, a few
> > extra hide thongs, spring clamp, a plaion old rag, a small vial
> > of gun oil,
> > plain dry patches fer swabbin, a small vial of bore cleaner, a
> > patch knife,
> > and hangin on a thong are my pan primer and a vent pick/brush combo.
> >
> > I'm gonna use your idea and sew some loops on the inside to hold the tools
> > instead of letting them just lay in the bottom of the bag...
> >
> > Addison Miller
> >
> >
> >

- --

"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
        DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
 Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements
   http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:35:57 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Containing liquids

A small corked bottle works well, but create a small, tieable, leather
cover for it to keep the cork from working loose.
Hardtack
  Your Second Amendment Rights protect ALL of your other Rights, Don't
give up your Rights

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 22:52:23 +0100
From: "Keith Garber" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: osage orange

Linda,
    Splitting @ 16 or so bow staves next week, most will not be suited for a
bow, will keep the rejects, they are 5 or 6 feet long and might  make your
dimemsions.
     Contact off list, I'll just build a fire with the rest, We have lots of
it here in Mo.
Hear It came from Texas, We at times do cuss it. Howdy ,Henry B. Thanks for
the tour of Bents Fort Sunday,, hope the rain stopped for your doo there,
Keith Garber, Keith G. S.W. Missouri
<http://members.sockets.net/~mofurco/>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 00:02:43 -0400
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag

>What do most folks use as vials for holding gun oil, and I saw someone said
>cleaner as well?    Like to find something authentic, and leakproof, yet
>small enough to carry

I use a small brass, one drop oiler.  Might be a Cash... not sure...  heh...
leave my possibles bag in the tin covered wagon so I don't forget it
again... You only make that mistake once!!  I guess  "vial" can bring all
sorts of things to mind, mainly glass...  One is brass (oil) and the other
is tin with a cork stopper... The oiler holds about 1/4 ounce, and the tin
one holds about 2 ounces... Tin is the one I use for cleaner... ITs a simple
mixture of water, dawn (I know, not period... but it works), and a bit of
olive oil.

Addison

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 23:04:01 -0500
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Glue stick

An 1820's receipt.
_______________________________________
"TO MAKE PORTABLE GLUE

Take 1 lb of the best glue, boil and strain it very clear; boil likewise =
4
oz. of isinglass, put it in a double glue-pot, with =BD lb. of fine brown
sugar, and boil it pretty thick; then pour it into moulds; when cold, cut
and dry them in small pieces.  This glue is very useful to draughtsmen,
architects, etc., as it immediately dilutes in warm water, and fastens th=
e
paper without the process of damping."
___________________________________________

This could also be called mouth glue.   Will fasten more than paper.

John...

At 07:48 PM 8/5/99 -0500, you wrote:
>I took a 1/4" stick and dipped it in warm hide glue then lightly dusted
>with powdered charcoal.  Then I dipped it again and powdered again and
>so on and so on etc...etc..
>letting it dry partially after about 10 or so dippings.  Build up a
>large ball of the mixture so it looks like a mutated Q-tip.  Let dry
>completely.  A large amount of shrinkage will occur.  The charcoal adds
>some tooth to the glue for adhesion.  Simply place the glue stick in a
>very small amount of warm water to reconstitute and use for minor glue
>repairs.
>=20
Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 19:08:59 +1200
From: Duncan R Macready <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: shooting bag

Farseer wrote:
   I have a Ted Cash one drop oiler I keep in the my
>gun box, but I'm pretty certain that o-ring sealed cans are a little late
>for the time period I'm wanting to play in.<SNIP>
I have a one drop oiler (with a leather seal ) and I know that it is at
least 120 years old.It is german silver  made in England
YMOS
CUTFINGER
Friendships made.
Problems shared.
Campfires across the Wilderness
Auckland ,New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 06:51:51 -0500
From: "Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Glue stick

John
Great receipt.  Sounds like my ex-wife's gravy...don't ask about her =
biscuits.   I have always been told that isinglass is the mineral mica, =
but in the Noah Webster 1828 dictionary we find this entry:

I'SINGLASS, n. i'zinglass. [that is, ise or ice-glass.]
A substance consisting chiefly of gelatin, of a firm texture and whitish =
color, prepared from the sounds or air-bladders of certain fresh water =
fishes, particularly of the huso, a fish of the sturgeon kind, found in =
the rivers of Russia.  It is used as an agglutinant and in fining wines.

I wonder what available substance would substitute?   The word =
"I'SINGLASS"  is used elsewhere in the dictionary in the following =
entries: (note the mention of fish glue)

ICHTHYOCOL'LA, n. [Gr. a fish, and glue.]  Fish-glue; isinglass; a glue =
prepared from the sounds of fish.

BIRDS'NEST, n. [bird and nest.]  The nest in which a bird lays eggs and =
hatches her young.
1.  A plant, a species of Ophrys or twyblade; also a species of Orchis.
2.  In cookery, the nest of a small swallow, of China, and the =
neighboring countries, delicately tasted,and mixed with soups. This nest =
is found in the rocks; it is of a hemispherical figure, of the size of a =
goose egg, and in substance resembles isinglass.  In the East, these =
nests are esteemed a great luxury, and sell at a very high price.

BLANC-MANGER, pron. blomonge.  In cookery, a preparation of dissolved =
isinglass, milk, sugar, cinnamon, &c., boiled into a thick =
consistence,and garnished for the table with blanched almonds.

CARLOCK, n.  A sort of isinglass from Russia, made of the sturgeons =
bladder, and used in clarifying wine.

CLARIFIER, n.
1.  That which clarifies or purifies; as, whites of eggs, blood and =
isinglass are clarifiers of liquors.

COLLIGATE, v.t.  To tie or bind together.
The pieces of isinglass are colligated in rows.

HU'SO, n. A fish of the genus Accipenser, whose mouth is in the under =
part of the head; the body is naked, or without prickles or =
protuberances. It grows to the length of twenty four feet, and its skin =
is so tough that it is used for ropes in drawing wheel-carriages. It =
inhabits the Danube and the rivers of Russia, and of its sounds is made =
isinglass.

WAFER, n.
1. A thin cake or leaf; as a wafer of bread given by the Romanists in =
the Eucharist.
2. A thin leaf of paste, or a composition of flour, the white of eggs, =
isinglass and yeast, spread over with gumwater and dried; used in =
sealing letters.

YMOS
Lanney Ratcliff



- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Glue stick


An 1820's receipt.
_______________________________________
"TO MAKE PORTABLE GLUE

Take 1 lb of the best glue, boil and strain it very clear; boil likewise =
4
oz. of isinglass, put it in a double glue-pot, with =BD lb. of fine =
brown
sugar, and boil it pretty thick; then pour it into moulds; when cold, =
cut
and dry them in small pieces.  This glue is very useful to draughtsmen,
architects, etc., as it immediately dilutes in warm water, and fastens =
the
paper without the process of damping."
___________________________________________

This could also be called mouth glue.   Will fasten more than paper.

John...

At 07:48 PM 8/5/99 -0500, you wrote:
>I took a 1/4" stick and dipped it in warm hide glue then lightly dusted
>with powdered charcoal.  Then I dipped it again and powdered again and
>so on and so on etc...etc..
>letting it dry partially after about 10 or so dippings.  Build up a
>large ball of the mixture so it looks like a mutated Q-tip.  Let dry
>completely.  A large amount of shrinkage will occur.  The charcoal adds
>some tooth to the glue for adhesion.  Simply place the glue stick in a
>very small amount of warm water to reconstitute and use for minor glue
>repairs.
>=20
Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: 6 Aug 1999 05:47:00 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag

On Thu, 05 August 1999, "larry pendleton" wrote:
The only issue with the bullet mold is, in our historical time period, it was most often carried in the shooting bag, probably because it was an item that could not be replaced very easily.

The bags I have been making the last few years have been recreations of bags that are illustrated in Madison Grant's book.  I learned a long tome ago that when you stray from the designs and the dimensions of the originals, you are making a large mistake...........
......................................
Larry,
Right after Grant's pouch book came out I was up visiting Charlie at the museum in Chardon, we where cleaning display cases I think was the reason I went up. Anyway we got to looking at Madison's book one evening, of which many have bullet molds, but only a few have lead bar.

Charlie started shaking his head in the direction of a "NO", this happens several times within a few pages. I asked what's the problem, his reply is "very seldom did he ever find reference to a bullet mold carried in the shooting pouch in all his years of research." He felt yes the mold and lead was there, but cached at camp, in the bedroll, pack or the haversack, not in the shooting bag.

The reason you see them in the bags today (collections) is they where placed there years later to keep everything together my family or dealers, he said he had done the same thing himself for years. Now everyone sees them in the bag and now that's where they should be.

Charlie brought up a good point, "why would you carry a mold and several pieces of lead bar (considering the weight) when you could have something useable like round ball - half the weight and half the bulk !"

When you give this some thought and consider everything Charlie mentioned, many of us believe he's probably correct in his thinking on these two items. So, put the mold and lead bar in the bed roll, haversack, pack, etc. they wouldn't help in a fight or killing game, yes a valuable item, just stored in the wrong location.


Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times.      AMM journal

The Tomahawk & Long Rifle  * 3483 Squires  *
Conklin, MI  49403
ATTN: Jon Link

The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________



Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 08:59:39 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Dennis Miles)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag

Buck,
 Charlie will be missed  for sure.. I had more than one $20 phone call show up on my bill due to a question I asked during the course of conversation with him.
 I carry my ball mould and a couple a small "fingers" of lead wrapped in the middle of my bedroll. For what it is worth. I have a few ball in my bag, enough for a couple of days. Think of when you are going to find time to "run ball" anyway...At camp, in the evening, or morning over a nice glowing bed of coals.
 BTW. I have a nice reworked .600 Rapine that I want to trade for a .570.. Can't hardly beat them damned .600's in the rifle-gun.....Right tight fit though...<G>
D


[e-mail] wrote:

> Larry,
> Right after Grant's pouch book came out I was up visiting Charlie at the museum in Chardon, we where cleaning display cases I think was the reason I went up. Anyway we got to looking at Madison's book one evening, of which many have bullet molds, but only a few have lead bar.
>
> Charlie started shaking his head in the direction of a "NO", this happens several times within a few pages. I asked what's the problem, his reply is "very seldom did he ever find reference to a bullet mold carried in the shooting pouch in all his years of research." He felt yes the mold and lead was there, but cached at camp, in the bedroll, pack or the haversack, not in the shooting bag.
>
> The reason you see them in the bags today (collections) is they where placed there years later to keep everything together my family or dealers, he said he had done the same thing himself for years. Now everyone sees them in the bag and now that's where they should be.
>
> Charlie brought up a good point, "why would you carry a mold and several pieces of lead bar (considering the weight) when you could have something useable like round ball - half the weight and half the bulk !"
>
> When you give this some thought and consider everything Charlie mentioned, many of us believe he's probably correct in his thinking on these two items. So, put the mold and lead bar in the bed roll, haversack, pack, etc. they wouldn't help in a fight or killing game, yes a valuable item, just stored in the wrong location.
>
> Later,
> Buck Conner
> dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
> http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
> _____________________________________
> NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
> and early history of the times.   AMM journal
>
> The Tomahawk & Long Rifle  * 3483 Squires  *
> Conklin, MI  49403
> ATTN: Jon Link
>
> The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
> quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
> _____________________________________
>
>
>
> Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net

- --

"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
        DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
 Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements
   http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1

------------------------------

Date: 6 Aug 1999 06:14:47 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag

On Fri, 06 August 1999, Dennis Miles wrote:

>
> Buck,
>  Charlie will be missed  for sure.. I had more than one $20 phone call show up on my bill due to a question I asked during the course of conversation with him.
>  I carry my ball mould and a couple a small "fingers" of lead wrapped in the middle of my bedroll. For what it is worth. I have a few ball in my bag, enough for a couple of days. Think of when you are going to find time to "run ball" anyway...At camp, in the evening, or morning over a nice glowing bed of coals.
>  BTW. I have a nice reworked .600 Rapine that I want to trade for a .570.. Can't hardly beat them damned .600's in the rifle-gun.....Right tight fit though...<G>
> D
>
>
> [e-mail] wrote:
>
> > Larry,
> > Right after Grant's pouch book came out I was up visiting Charlie at the museum in Chardon, we where cleaning display cases I think was the reason I went up. Anyway we got to looking at Madison's book one evening, of which many have bullet molds, but only a few have lead bar.
> >
> > Charlie started shaking his head in the direction of a "NO", this happens several times within a few pages. I asked what's the problem, his reply is "very seldom did he ever find reference to a bullet mold carried in the shooting pouch in all his years of research." He felt yes the mold and lead was there, but cached at camp, in the bedroll, pack or the haversack, not in the shooting bag.
> >
> > The reason you see them in the bags today (collections) is they where placed there years later to keep everything together my family or dealers, he said he had done the same thing himself for years. Now everyone sees them in the bag and now that's where they should be.
> >
> > Charlie brought up a good point, "why would you carry a mold and several pieces of lead bar (considering the weight) when you could have something useable like round ball - half the weight and half the bulk !"
> >
> > When you give this some thought and consider everything Charlie mentioned, many of us believe he's probably correct in his thinking on these two items. So, put the mold and lead bar in the bed roll, haversack, pack, etc. they wouldn't help in a fight or killing game, yes a valuable item, just stored in the wrong location.
> >
> > Later,
> > Buck Conner

..............................................
If you close your eyes and let your mind wonder, you too may see what many can invision, a camp fire with figures sitting around, a closer look at this scene, the faces become clearer and right in the middle sits Old Charley asking questions, taking notes and living on every word of passed adventures, as names of men and their deeds come together.

AND PROBABLY A FEW ARE CASTING BALL ALONG WITH THE STORY TELLING.

God Bless these men of adventure.         ôWaughö

Dennis you paid attention to the old man, and placed your mold in the right place, alright.

I'll give it some thought on that mold and will look up that information on "Fawn Killer" today.

Worked last weekend, "weekend from hell" reason for being off today, went in last night and told my V.P. to stick the job - half an hour later I"m back at my desk and get a call and job offer to work for another V.P. - now waiting for a release date from the asshole I work for at the moment.


Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times.      AMM journal

The Tomahawk & Long Rifle  * 3483 Squires  *
Conklin, MI  49403
ATTN: Jon Link

The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________



Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net

------------------------------

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