ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/hist_text/archive/v01.n264

Internet Message Format | 1999-03-21 | 33KB

From: [e-mail] (hist_text-digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #264
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


hist_text-digest        Sunday, March 21 1999        Volume 01 : Number 264




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:09:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Richard Pickert <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: marquis tent

thanks for the great info!




- -
>

==


      Rick(Walks in the Night)Pickert


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:05:58 -0800
From: "John Hunt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: trade my trade gun

I have a northwest trade gun mfg. by Curly Gostomski in right hand configuration that I want to trade for in a lefty mfg. by Curly
G., or a left Wilson. No sales, no rifle trades, no canoe guns.



John (BIG JOHN) Hunt
Longhunter
Mountainman
southwest  Ohio

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 20:03:52 +1200
From: "The Brooks" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Rifling Machine

Pendalton Wrote re machine.
Have been away at a rondy for the last couple of days and just clearing the
messages so this may have been answered. Try the  ""How to build;d the
Antique rifling machine" book written by Joseph A. Seabolt address is
Rifling, P.O. Box 3967, Muskegon Michigan 49444 or image Graphics P.O. Box
996 Paducah, Kentucky 42001. It was published in 1976 so it may be difficult
to locate. I think DGW had them also for a while. If you have no joy contact
me and I will photocopy it off for you.Kind Regards
Kia Ora,
Big Bear
In Sunny warm Marlborough New Zealand.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:44:30 -0700
From: Vickie Nielsen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: OT: MtMan-List: Re: Message Protocol

will someone please post the address for un-subscribing? Thank you.

Angela Gottfred wrote:

> Pat Quilter's comments are excellent. I'd like to add a couple more tips; I
> hope they will be received in the spirit in which they are offered. This is
> 'netiquette' I have learned from other lists.
>
> --If you want to post "chit-chat" (jokes or other stuff not directly
> relevant to the Rocky Mountain fur trade from 1800 to 1850), put "OT" at the
> beginning of your subject line (like I did with this message). It stands for
> "off topic", and is a warning to certain list members to delete without reading.
>
> --Don't leave the message you're replying to stuck at the end of your reply;
> if you want to refresh other folks as to what you're responding to, quote
> the part you are responding to (and only that part) at the beginning or end
> of your message. Otherwise you will be posting messages like "I agree" plus
> the entire original message that you agree with, plus the responses from
> other folks who did the same thing. This is called 'wasting bandwidth', and
> can put an undue strain on Internet e-mail resources, as well as the
> patience of other folks on the list, who have to spend precious minutes with
> antique computers (386's!) waiting for it all to download.
>
> Your humble & obedient servant,
> Angela Gottfred
>
> [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:02:00 -0600
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: marquis tent

At 01:04 PM 3/21/99 -0500, you wrote:
.........=A0 for the best information on the marquis
>tent contact Tentsmiths, Peter Marques, in Conway, N.H........ he has so=
me of
>the best documentation going..... don't know his phone number, but you c=
ould
>get it out of Smoke & Fire News, Muzzleblasts, etc.
>=20

TRY:
<http://www.tentsmiths.com/>http://www.tentsmiths.com/

Peter and Deborah make fine goods.

John...

Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 18:02:20 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Dennis Miles)
Subject: MtMan-List: Blanket

Hey all,
 Gotta question... Does anyone know what would have been a common color for
a Franch-made blanket, mid 18thC.?
Thanks in advance
D

   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
          DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
  Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
    http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:37:38 -0600
From: "Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: OT: MtMan-List: Re: Message Protocol

Click on this and go to e-mail discussion lists and click there.  Scroll =
down and follow directions.
Lanney Ratcliff

http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/amm.html

- -----Original Message-----
From: Vickie Nielsen <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Sunday, March 21, 1999 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: OT: MtMan-List: Re: Message Protocol


>will someone please post the address for un-subscribing? Thank you.
>
>Angela Gottfred wrote:
>
>> Pat Quilter's comments are excellent. I'd like to add a couple more =
tips; I
>> hope they will be received in the spirit in which they are offered. =
This is
>> 'netiquette' I have learned from other lists.
>>
>> --If you want to post "chit-chat" (jokes or other stuff not directly
>> relevant to the Rocky Mountain fur trade from 1800 to 1850), put "OT" =
at the
>> beginning of your subject line (like I did with this message). It =
stands for
>> "off topic", and is a warning to certain list members to delete =
without reading.
>>
>> --Don't leave the message you're replying to stuck at the end of your =
reply;
>> if you want to refresh other folks as to what you're responding to, =
quote
>> the part you are responding to (and only that part) at the beginning =
or end
>> of your message. Otherwise you will be posting messages like "I =
agree" plus
>> the entire original message that you agree with, plus the responses =
from
>> other folks who did the same thing. This is called 'wasting =
bandwidth', and
>> can put an undue strain on Internet e-mail resources, as well as the
>> patience of other folks on the list, who have to spend precious =
minutes with
>> antique computers (386's!) waiting for it all to download.
>>
>> Your humble & obedient servant,
>> Angela Gottfred
>>
>> [e-mail]
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 18:39:12 -0600
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: lube

"Slicker 'n Willie Lube"

Are you sure?=A0 He's slicker than snake snot.=A0=20

I am really having trouble believing anyone before 1930 spent much time
sitting
around chatting up the fine qualities of some mysterious flocum called=
 X?X?X?
patch lube.=A0 I don't think the conversation really heated up until after=
 1970.

I've never encountered any early nineteenth century commercial offerings or
specific recipes for patch lube.  There may be some; at best it was=
 uncommon.

Back when, back East, folks used a lot of blended tallow and beeswax (often
with a little of various minerals, trees, critters, plants and oils) for=
 just
about everything.=A0 Most common folks had some sort of oil or grease and
perhaps
any of several other things.=A0 Most folks in the mountains weren't making=
 up
much in the way of fancy concoctions.=A0 Especially if the ingredients cost
money.=A0=20

No mountain man in his right mind would waste good whiskey and squaw money=
 on
something always available free -- some sort of grease, oil or fat.=A0 It's
plumb
easy to render out the little you need.=A0 Maybe include a few leaves or=
 berries
to improve the smell, but not likely.=A0 We all ought to be carrying around=
 a
bait box.=A0 That'd be real fragrant on a hot summer day.  I doubt any of=
 the
"Beaver" men much cared about something smelling nice.

Warn't they called spit patches?=A0 Hasn't anyone just tried chewing on the=
 end
of a rag?=A0 It works pretty damn well.=A0 (I've been composing this over=
 the past
few days and finally we have the first mention of spit from Dennis Fisher.=
=A0
Thanks.=A0=20

P.S. Paraffin is a modern petroleum wax.

The last time we had this discussion all kinds of modern witches brews were
being touted for greasing and cleaning.=A0=20

I still maintain the old timers used whatever grease they had available=
 (more
likely than not rendered from a bear's belly, a beaver's tail or a buffalo's
hump).=A0=20

They may have mixed it with a little castor to keep their scent down and=
 leave
a tantalizing trail for furry gold.  Whatever needed grease probably got a
coat
of what they had.  Gun, Moc's whatever.

For those that prefer not to render their own fat.=A0 The finest gun, or any
other, grease of the day was sperm oil.=A0 The best natural substitute for=
 sperm
oil today is jojoba oil.=A0 This is one case where I suggest using the
substitute
due to the current shortage of whales.=A0 I just soak patches long ahead of=
 time
and they always seem to work pretty good.=A0 It's those old nasty dirty
strips of
rag tied to my shooting bag, where they're handy.=A0=A0 Carry a few strips=
 dry: to
chew and swab with,=A0handy for char.  If you ain't got spit you're close to
trouble.

Pure neatsfoot (NOT COMPOUNDED) oil, is a good alternative for those without
bear oil or other rendered fat for use on leather.  Jojoba is expensive to=
 use
on leather.  Neatsfoot will work on patches too.

Read the list archive for my suggestion on period gun cleaning solvent.=A0=
 It's
free.=A0 It requires no extra packaging.=A0 Comes in its own container.=A0=
 Handy
dispenser.=A0 Everybody has a ready supply, or they die.=A0 Water works.

The usual excuse is folks want to protect the investment they made in their
fancy smoke pole, or they want to stand on a firing line and shoot all day
without swabbing the bore.=A0 These are pursuits beyond the scope of what
traditionalists are about.=A0=20

Back then their rifles and fusils cost them a higher percentage of their
annual
earnings than ours cost today, they had to make do with what was available.=
=A0
Their life depended on whether or not their weapon worked.=A0 They survived=
 so
what they did must have worked well enough.

If we are to learn from what they knew; we must do what they did --- as much
the same way --- as the centuries allow.=20

Jim Bridger might have used it if he had it --- but he didn't!

Traditional/primitive/authentic/historic/period correct is more about how=
 you
do things, than exactly how you look.=A0 It is a mind set.=A0 We must=
 compromise
enough doing without those things no longer available and those now=
 necessary
to preserve life, there is rare need to resort to modernism when you are
living
history.=A0=20

Often we must now choose something less common than back then; because that
most often then used is now forbade us, for various survival, official or
commercial reasons.=A0 It may be something as simple as the second best oil
or it
may require something then unknown, i.e., high tech water filters to
protect us
from the many poisons modern civilization has strewn about. =20

Those simple things everyone did for themselves can still be done, each
teaches
something.=A0 There is always some period way or period alternative to most
everything we use.=A0 The few forced compromises are too many.

I'm sure lube is a hot topic amongst the paper puncher crowd.=A0 In the=
 Rocky
Mountains of the early nineteenth century paper was too precious a
commodity to
waste on such foolishness.

I have been speaking to those who regularly use, mostly, one gun.=A0 The
mountain
men.=A0 Those who seriously seek learning all: the old ways have to teach.

For those maintaining collections of rarely used weapons there is another
traditional method which can dependably prevent rust over long storage in
humid
or dry areas.=A0 It enriches and preserves the wood and protects the metal.=
=A0
After one or two annual treatments it should not require more than a dry=
 swab
dusting of the bore every year or so and regular dry cotton cloth dusting of
the surface.=A0 It is efficacious on smokepoles used everyday as well.=A0=
 Contact
me off-line for more information. =20
I try not to peddle here.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20

John...

John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0

Kramer's Best Antique Improver
>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<<

<http://www.kramerize.com/>

mail to: <[e-mail]>=20

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:55:11 -0600
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Texas & Texicans

I speak now of more than patch lube.=A0 It's still pretty greasy.

Remember, you got to let the folks from Baja Oklahoma run off at the mouth
once
in a while about what a wonderful place it is; they're just trying to=
 convince
each other that they really have a good reason to continue to survive and
endure it's many miseries.

I know I been there.=A0 Its big, but it's only full of hot air --- air black
with
ravenous mosquitos. It is a land rife with every pestilence known to man,
rattlesnakes, famine, plague, quicksand, flash floods, drought, hurricanes,
and
every nasty, poisonous, crawling, flying biting, spiny thing known to
creation.=A0 And the worst damn ice storm  I was ever in after 30+ winters=
 of
traveling through the Rockies & More Mountains.=A0=A0=20

Yes Texas is lovely, and a great place to keep Texicans.=A0=20
You gotta feel sorry for them.=A0=20
Look where they live, next door to Hell.

I know of whence I speak as I now live two doors up in Misery.=A0 A place=
 where
nature seems to sense what is the next worst thing it can do to keep the
climate finely tuned between uncomfortable and miserable; accompanied by our
occasional tornado, monsoon, heat wave, arctic freeze, and flood; we're=
 graced
with lots of really vicious bugs, deadly ticks and spiders, swarms of wasps=
 &
hornets and a few poisonous snakes; but we do get two or three nice days a
year.=A0

The Rockies do shine.=A0=20
Blizzards can be fun.=A0=20

From the known to be humorless

John...
Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.=20
john [e-mail] =20

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:05:22 -0600
From: "Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Texas & Texicans

Then you get days of 80 degree sunshine with 500 acres of bluebonnets, =
Indian paintbrushes, evening primrose and dozens of other glorious =
wildflowers spread out over the prairies before you, undulating in waves =
as a light breeze blows,  with a mockingbird singing a variety of airias =
from a towering pecan tree.  You might even spot an armadillo rooting =
for grubs in that determined way they have.  It is on those days that =
you lift up a prayer of thanks to God for allowing you the privilidge of =
viewing that part of His good earth in the knowledge that seven =
generations of your family have enriched the soil of Texas with their =
blood, sweat, tears....and their bones, to help Him produce such bounty. =
 I hope everybody lives where the land around them is as much a part of =
them as Texas is for me.  If you can say that, then you might be as =
lucky as I am.  Come visit, stay a spell....you might catch the spirit =
of this place.
Lanney Ratcliff, proud Texian
- -----Original Message-----
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Sunday, March 21, 1999 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Texas & Texicans


I speak now of more than patch lube. It's still pretty greasy.

Remember, you got to let the folks from Baja Oklahoma run off at the =
mouth
once
in a while about what a wonderful place it is; they're just trying to =
convince
each other that they really have a good reason to continue to survive =
and
endure it's many miseries.

I know I been there. Its big, but it's only full of hot air --- air =
black
with
ravenous mosquitos. It is a land rife with every pestilence known to =
man,
rattlesnakes, famine, plague, quicksand, flash floods, drought, =
hurricanes,
and
every nasty, poisonous, crawling, flying biting, spiny thing known to
creation. And the worst damn ice storm  I was ever in after 30+ winters =
of
traveling through the Rockies & More Mountains.=20

Yes Texas is lovely, and a great place to keep Texicans.=20
You gotta feel sorry for them.=20
Look where they live, next door to Hell.

I know of whence I speak as I now live two doors up in Misery. A place =
where
nature seems to sense what is the next worst thing it can do to keep the
climate finely tuned between uncomfortable and miserable; accompanied by =
our
occasional tornado, monsoon, heat wave, arctic freeze, and flood; we're =
graced
with lots of really vicious bugs, deadly ticks and spiders, swarms of =
wasps &
hornets and a few poisonous snakes; but we do get two or three nice days =
a
year.=20

The Rockies do shine.=20
Blizzards can be fun.=20

From the known to be humorless

John...
Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.=20
john [e-mail] =20

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:09:31 -0600
From: "Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: lube

Got to agree with you when you're right, John.  Got to.
Lanney
- -----Original Message-----
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Sunday, March 21, 1999 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: lube


"Slicker 'n Willie Lube"

Are you sure? He's slicker than snake snot.=20

I am really having trouble believing anyone before 1930 spent much time
sitting
around chatting up the fine qualities of some mysterious flocum called =
X?X?X?
patch lube. I don't think the conversation really heated up until after =
1970.

I've never encountered any early nineteenth century commercial offerings =
or
specific recipes for patch lube.  There may be some; at best it was =
uncommon.

Back when, back East, folks used a lot of blended tallow and beeswax =
(often
with a little of various minerals, trees, critters, plants and oils) for =
just
about everything. Most common folks had some sort of oil or grease and
perhaps
any of several other things. Most folks in the mountains weren't making =
up
much in the way of fancy concoctions. Especially if the ingredients cost
money.=20

No mountain man in his right mind would waste good whiskey and squaw =
money on
something always available free -- some sort of grease, oil or fat. It's
plumb
easy to render out the little you need. Maybe include a few leaves or =
berries
to improve the smell, but not likely. We all ought to be carrying around =
a
bait box. That'd be real fragrant on a hot summer day.  I doubt any of =
the
"Beaver" men much cared about something smelling nice.

Warn't they called spit patches? Hasn't anyone just tried chewing on the =
end
of a rag? It works pretty damn well. (I've been composing this over the =
past
few days and finally we have the first mention of spit from Dennis =
Fisher.=20
Thanks.=20

P.S. Paraffin is a modern petroleum wax.

The last time we had this discussion all kinds of modern witches brews =
were
being touted for greasing and cleaning.=20

I still maintain the old timers used whatever grease they had available =
(more
likely than not rendered from a bear's belly, a beaver's tail or a =
buffalo's
hump).=20

They may have mixed it with a little castor to keep their scent down and =
leave
a tantalizing trail for furry gold.  Whatever needed grease probably got =
a
coat
of what they had.  Gun, Moc's whatever.

For those that prefer not to render their own fat. The finest gun, or =
any
other, grease of the day was sperm oil. The best natural substitute for =
sperm
oil today is jojoba oil. This is one case where I suggest using the
substitute
due to the current shortage of whales. I just soak patches long ahead of =
time
and they always seem to work pretty good. It's those old nasty dirty
strips of
rag tied to my shooting bag, where they're handy. Carry a few strips =
dry: to
chew and swab with, handy for char.  If you ain't got spit you're close =
to
trouble.

Pure neatsfoot (NOT COMPOUNDED) oil, is a good alternative for those =
without
bear oil or other rendered fat for use on leather.  Jojoba is expensive =
to use
on leather.  Neatsfoot will work on patches too.

Read the list archive for my suggestion on period gun cleaning solvent. =
It's
free. It requires no extra packaging. Comes in its own container. Handy
dispenser. Everybody has a ready supply, or they die. Water works.

The usual excuse is folks want to protect the investment they made in =
their
fancy smoke pole, or they want to stand on a firing line and shoot all =
day
without swabbing the bore. These are pursuits beyond the scope of what
traditionalists are about.=20

Back then their rifles and fusils cost them a higher percentage of their
annual
earnings than ours cost today, they had to make do with what was =
available.=20
Their life depended on whether or not their weapon worked. They survived =
so
what they did must have worked well enough.

If we are to learn from what they knew; we must do what they did --- as =
much
the same way --- as the centuries allow.=20

Jim Bridger might have used it if he had it --- but he didn't!

Traditional/primitive/authentic/historic/period correct is more about =
how you
do things, than exactly how you look. It is a mind set. We must =
compromise
enough doing without those things no longer available and those now =
necessary
to preserve life, there is rare need to resort to modernism when you are
living
history.=20

Often we must now choose something less common than back then; because =
that
most often then used is now forbade us, for various survival, official =
or
commercial reasons. It may be something as simple as the second best oil
or it
may require something then unknown, i.e., high tech water filters to
protect us
from the many poisons modern civilization has strewn about. =20

Those simple things everyone did for themselves can still be done, each
teaches
something. There is always some period way or period alternative to most
everything we use. The few forced compromises are too many.

I'm sure lube is a hot topic amongst the paper puncher crowd. In the =
Rocky
Mountains of the early nineteenth century paper was too precious a
commodity to
waste on such foolishness.

I have been speaking to those who regularly use, mostly, one gun. The
mountain
men. Those who seriously seek learning all: the old ways have to teach.

For those maintaining collections of rarely used weapons there is =
another
traditional method which can dependably prevent rust over long storage =
in
humid
or dry areas. It enriches and preserves the wood and protects the metal. =

After one or two annual treatments it should not require more than a dry =
swab
dusting of the bore every year or so and regular dry cotton cloth =
dusting of
the surface. It is efficacious on smokepoles used everyday as well. =
Contact
me off-line for more information. =20
I try not to peddle here.=20

John...

John T. Kramer, maker of:=20

Kramer's Best Antique Improver
>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<
>>>As good as old!<<<

<http://www.kramerize.com/>

mail to: <[e-mail]>=20

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 19:41:12 -0700
From: "Barry Conner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: lube

Take a look at old Dixie Gun works catalogs, over the last 25-30 year's
Turner has had many recipes for patch lube and have seen recipes in several
Sharpes manuals for their front stuffer's before the breech loader came in.

Buck Conner

- -----Original Message-----
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Sunday, March 21, 1999 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: lube


"Slicker 'n Willie Lube"

Are you sure? He's slicker than snake snot.

I am really having trouble believing anyone before 1930 spent much time
sitting
around chatting up the fine qualities of some mysterious flocum called
X?X?X?
patch lube. I don't think the conversation really heated up until after
1970.

I've never encountered any early nineteenth century commercial offerings or
specific recipes for patch lube.  There may be some; at best it was
uncommon.

Back when, back East, folks used a lot of blended tallow and beeswax (often
with a little of various minerals, trees, critters, plants and oils) for
just
about everything. Most common folks had some sort of oil or grease and
perhaps
any of several other things. Most folks in the mountains weren't making up
much in the way of fancy concoctions. Especially if the ingredients cost
money.

No mountain man in his right mind would waste good whiskey and squaw money
on
something always available free -- some sort of grease, oil or fat. It's
plumb
easy to render out the little you need. Maybe include a few leaves or
berries
to improve the smell, but not likely. We all ought to be carrying around a
bait box. That'd be real fragrant on a hot summer day.  I doubt any of the
"Beaver" men much cared about something smelling nice.

Warn't they called spit patches? Hasn't anyone just tried chewing on the end
of a rag? It works pretty damn well. (I've been composing this over the past
few days and finally we have the first mention of spit from Dennis Fisher.
Thanks.

P.S. Paraffin is a modern petroleum wax.

The last time we had this discussion all kinds of modern witches brews were
being touted for greasing and cleaning.

I still maintain the old timers used whatever grease they had available
(more
likely than not rendered from a bear's belly, a beaver's tail or a buffalo's
hump).

They may have mixed it with a little castor to keep their scent down and
leave
a tantalizing trail for furry gold.  Whatever needed grease probably got a
coat
of what they had.  Gun, Moc's whatever.

For those that prefer not to render their own fat. The finest gun, or any
other, grease of the day was sperm oil. The best natural substitute for
sperm
oil today is jojoba oil. This is one case where I suggest using the
substitute
due to the current shortage of whales. I just soak patches long ahead of
time
and they always seem to work pretty good. It's those old nasty dirty
strips of
rag tied to my shooting bag, where they're handy. Carry a few strips dry: to
chew and swab with, handy for char.  If you ain't got spit you're close to
trouble.

Pure neatsfoot (NOT COMPOUNDED) oil, is a good alternative for those without
bear oil or other rendered fat for use on leather.  Jojoba is expensive to
use
on leather.  Neatsfoot will work on patches too.

Read the list archive for my suggestion on period gun cleaning solvent. It's
free. It requires no extra packaging. Comes in its own container. Handy
dispenser. Everybody has a ready supply, or they die. Water works.

The usual excuse is folks want to protect the investment they made in their
fancy smoke pole, or they want to stand on a firing line and shoot all day
without swabbing the bore. These are pursuits beyond the scope of what
traditionalists are about.

Back then their rifles and fusils cost them a higher percentage of their
annual
earnings than ours cost today, they had to make do with what was available.
Their life depended on whether or not their weapon worked. They survived so
what they did must have worked well enough.

If we are to learn from what they knew; we must do what they did --- as much
the same way --- as the centuries allow.

Jim Bridger might have used it if he had it --- but he didn't!

Traditional/primitive/authentic/historic/period correct is more about how
you
do things, than exactly how you look. It is a mind set. We must compromise
enough doing without those things no longer available and those now
necessary
to preserve life, there is rare need to resort to modernism when you are
living
history.

Often we must now choose something less common than back then; because that
most often then used is now forbade us, for various survival, official or
commercial reasons. It may be something as simple as the second best oil
or it
may require something then unknown, i.e., high tech water filters to
protect us
from the many poisons modern civilization has strewn about.

Those simple things everyone did for themselves can still be done, each
teaches
something. There is always some period way or period alternative to most
everything we use. The few forced compromises are too many.

I'm sure lube is a hot topic amongst the paper puncher crowd. In the Rocky
Mountains of the early nineteenth century paper was too precious a
commodity to
waste on such foolishness.

I have been speaking to those who regularly use, mostly, one gun. The
mountain
men. Those who seriously seek learning all: the old ways have to teach.

For those maintaining collections of rarely used weapons there is another
traditional method which can dependably prevent rust over long storage in
humid
or dry areas. It enriches and preserves the wood and protects the metal.
After one or two annual treatments it should not require more than a dry
swab
dusting of the bore every year or so and regular dry cotton cloth dusting of
the surface. It is efficacious on smokepoles used everyday as well. Contact
me off-line for more information.
I try not to peddle here.

John...

John T. Kramer, maker of:

Kramer's Best Antique Improver
>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<
>>>As good as old!<<<

<http://www.kramerize.com/>

mail to: <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:05:26 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Apache/Fur trade contact question

Hello the list,
    While I know later on Kit Carson dealt with the Apache as an Indian Agent
(1857 or so), was there any earlier interaction between the Apache and south
western Mountain Men during the fur trade era? If so, any trading?
    I haven't come across any references in either Apache history or my
limited shelf of mountain man books, but Taos is right there where they were.

Thanks for your time,
Jim

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:36:31 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Joe Brandl)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1st beaver skinn`in

John,
After skinning and tanning many many beaver, I find it easier to skin a
hide clean, other like to leave alot of meat and fat on, then work hide
around edges towards middle. the weight of the fleshing help to "roll" the
stuff off easier. When tanning beaver, I perfer to have them salted rather
than air dried. It is easier to shave or thin a beaver when the leg holes
or cut through rather than "in the round" Most tanneries cut the leg holes
as it faciltates using mechical means of thinning or shaving. Only reason
to cut a beaver from the anus to the chin in  to stretch it round for fur
buyers. Right now beaver is bringing less than $10/pelt for good ones.
Joe

Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery
Call us about our professional home tanning kit-307-455-2440
Write for custom tanning prices
We produce rawhide lampshades and carry a large selection of leather and
hair on robes
Fine lodgepole furniture, pillows, Indian reproductions, paintings, baskets
check out our new web site: http://www.onpages.com/absaroka

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:50:05 -0700
From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Pierre's Hole fight

At 06:14 PM 3/18/99 -0600, you wrote:

>Instead of whining about the content of the messages,  start a conversation
>about a historical subject.  Works for me.     J.D.
>
OK, here's one for ya.  If Milton and the boys was headed to Snake River
country they would be heading to (modern) Pine Creek area.  How could they
have run into the Gros Vente coming off Teton Pass, as is generally
considered to be the case?  Milton and the guys would be miles from there,
and headed the other way (south west).  In Ferris' book he puts the fight
much more to the southwest end of the hole.

Any ideas?

Allen Hall #1729 from Fort Hall country

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:49:17 -0800
From: "Munroe Crutchley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Carrying loaded rifles

I tried this question several months ago and got no response, so I'll try
again:

How long do you suppose a loaded muzzleloader was carried before it was
discharged and loaded fresh? If a man's life depended on his rifle firing,
it would seem he would have to consider dampness, condensation, etc. so
there would be some limit to the dependability of a loaded rifle.

Munroe Crutchley
Grants Pass, OR

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #264
*******************************

-
 To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to
"[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.