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hist_text-digest     Wednesday, February 24 1999     Volume 01 : Number 245




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:46:38 -0600
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Gum

Angela,

I think you may be right about the mis-translation of paper.  I haven't seen
the original since 1979 and no longer have access to anything but the
translation in "Shepherd's Compleat..." as my French is on the scanty side=
 and
I only worked a little on the translation I can't say what the original word
was.  The listing did include some colloquialisms as I recall.  The belaying
pins originally translated as 2 priests.  It took some head scratching,
cogitating and querying of several well versed in the language to sort it
out.=20
It's nearly certain some error crept in.

I would like to see a drawing or picture of a York boat someday.  If you can
offer better information for the lead introduction Dean has posted I would
sure
appreciate it as I'm sure would he.  I have very little information about=
 what
they were. =20

The original was acquired by Stephen Shepherd who I haven't seen in years=
 and
who no longer pursues historic endeavors.  It may have been lost or=
 destroyed
with other prime references in an ugly divorce.  He acquired it while=
 working
at Connor Prairie in Indiana.

John...


At 09:35 AM 2/21/99 -0700, you wrote:
>The gum on the 1803 York boat list is almost certainly the pine=20
>pitch/charcoal mixture used for gumming canoes and, presumably, York boats.=
=20
>I very much doubt that it was wrapped in paper--I suspect that the term=20
>"parchment", meaning rawhide, has been mistranslated. Gum is frequently=20
>mentioned in English fur trade journals of this period. Gathering & making=
=20
>gum was frequently the job of fur traders' country wives.
>
> It is quite unusual that this York boat bill of lading was originally in=
=20
>French; York boats were used by the HBC, whose clerks were almost entirely=
=20
>English-speaking. York boats were significantly different from canoes in=20
>almost every way--materials, construction, navigation, portaging, and=20
>capacity being the most significant differences.=20
>
>In haste,
>Your humble & obedient servant,
>Angela Gottfred
>[e-mail]
>=20
John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0

Kramer's Best Antique Improver
>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<<

<http://www.kramerize.com/>

mail to: <[e-mail]>=20

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 03:05:14 -0800
From: "Sidney Porter" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Winter Convention

As do I, and I've always wanted to come to Rockie Mt.  Linda has a
suggestion I hope you might consider.

Sidney





- -----Original Message-----
From: linda lawyer <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Winter Convention


>
>
>I too have to return to work on the 4th. of August.  Many school
>districts begin around the first of August. Could you consider moving
>the date of the Rocky Mountain College up a little....maybe mid June
>or late July.  Just a thought, Linda Lawyer
>
>
>---Linda Holley <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the INFORMATION.  It definitely explained everything.  I
>cannot
>> go in the summer anymore because they have changed my job starting
>to the
>> 1st. of August.  But I am interested in the March doings.
>>
>>
>> Linda
>>
>> "Charlie P. Webb" wrote:
>>
>> > Linda,
>> > The Colorado State Muzzle Loading Associations Winter
>> > Convention was born many years ago as a method of
>> > treating "Cabin Fever".  Many of us Buckskinners,
>> > Mountaineers, renactors and such needed a way to break
>> > the daily monotony and doldrums of winter camp.  I don't
>> > know who first came up with the idea of holding a Winter
>> > Convention on a State level, could have been the original
>> > founders of the CSMLA  (The Out House Gang ) anyway
>> > it was and is a great fun time.  My wife and I have attended
>> > every one since the beginning, it's a great way to get together
>> > with old friends and meet new ones.  Our main goal is to
>> > interest  new folks in the use of primitive firearms with safety
>> > stressed from the gitgo,  to Living History, Buckskinning,
>> > Long Hunters or what ever your cup of tea might be. It is also
>> > a part of our goal to "kick the hivernants" in the pants and
>> > rekindle their enthusiasm for our sport. We invite qualified
>> > instructors do classes (much like our Rocky Mountain College
>Rendezvous
>> > August 8-15) on subjects of their choice pertaining
>> > to their period of interest.  We simply say pre-1840, actually
>> > we have folks involved from the early 1750's thru the F&I to the
>> > Revolution  and on up through the America's involvement in Fur
>> > hunting and trading.  We also have a growing number of folks
>> > interested in as I choose to call it, The War of The Northern
>> > Invasion, even though this event began in 1860 they are also
>> > welcome.  We turn no one away from our door, we try to include
>> > and offer things of interest to all of the  Muzzle Loading
>> > Community, not just one facet of the sport.  Since we are
>> > attempting to interest new people in what we do, we are not
>> > "clothes police" we speak of  authenticity, but are not going
>> > to criticize or chastise any one who is trying, but hasn't quite
>> > done enough research to create the perfect outfit or persona.
>> > Shucks, I began playing this living history thing back in 1947
>> > and am still trying to get it right.  Some of us are just a bit
>> > slower than others. <<GAG>> We have a good traders room
>> > and attempt to showcase only period wares, however as in
>> > all things, something sometimes falls through a crack.  We also
>> > have a Banquet and awards ceremony Saturday evening, then
>> > for me the most fun, an auction of goods donated by traders
>> > or any one that has something neat pertaining to muzzle
>> > loading.  Items are from canvas goods, leather bags and such,
>> > Damascus knives, carved antler handled knives, trade silver,
>> > fire irons,  (we have several excellent blacksmiths in CSMLA)
>> > you name it, it will probably be on the auction block.  In 1999
>> > we have four class rooms with hourly selections for the learning
>> > experience. Everything from basic flint lock to a class I do
>> > on the etiquette of photography and camera use at rendezvous
>> > and living history events.  This year at 10:00 AM all class rooms
>> > will be closed so all that can will attend the Wildlife meeting.  It
>> > is critical that we have as much input from the members as
>> > possible so that a plan can be developed to hopefully preserve
>> > our Muzzle Loading Season.  One need not be a member to
>> > attend, but naturally the more members we can acquire the
>> > stronger our bargaining platform with the DOW will be.  Linda
>> > our Winter Convention is a fun thing, perhaps not as authentic
>> > as some would like, but we are trying cover a large block of
>> > time as best we can.  The Rocky Mountain College and the
>> > Winter Convention  was designed to be learning experiences
>> > for pilgrims, however it has grown into much more that.
>> > We also hold the associations business meeting and the
>> > election of new officers and board members at the Winter
>> > Con. It is my personal opinion based on reading your past
>> > posts that you might enjoy the Rocky Mountain College
>> > a bit more than the Winter Con.  The College runs for 8 days,
>> > and the Winter Con. for 2 days.  The RM College is not
>> > totally primitive, we try to acomodate as many folks as we
>> > can. We offer a Tin Tipi camp, Handicap camp, and long term
>> > primitive and short term primitive camps.  Since the event is
>> > held in Bayou Salado  a favorite hang out for Bridger, Carson,
>> > Beckwith and Jim Baker the flavor is definitely western
>> > Mountaineer or Mountain Man.  Didn't intend for this to turn
>> > into a book,  but if you need or want more information you
>> > may feel free to contact my wife or  myself.  Thank you for
>> > your interest.
>> >
>> > Respectfully,
>> > C Webb
>> > AKA Old Coyote
>> > CC CO
>> >
>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > >> From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
>> > >> To: History Text <[e-mail]>
>> > >> Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 10:08 PM
>> > >> Subject: MtMan-List: Winter Convention
>> > >>
>> > >> >How many of us on this list will be at the CSMLRA Winter
>Convention
>> > >in
>> > >> >Denver in March?
>> > >> >
>> > >> >DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >
>> > >
>>
>>
>>
>
>==
>
>
>Keith and Linda Lawyer
>[e-mail]
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:22:20 -0800
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Gum

John Kramer wrote:

>
> I would like to see a drawing or picture of a York boat someday.  If you can
> offer better information for the lead introduction Dean has posted I would
> sure
> appreciate it as I'm sure would he.  I have very little information about what
> they were.

John,

Seeing your interest in York boats, I thumbed back through my issues of "Tomahawk
and Long rifle" (AMM  Publication) To Vol. 22,#3 summer of 1997 issue which
contains a nice article by my friend Leonard Conely. His article "Bateau in the
Fur Trade' has some good information on what he found were the types of boats used
in the western regions of the fur trade where birch bark was not available for the
making of larger freighting canoes/boats. Leonard has included a page of boat
drawings that show to fair effect the type an basic construction of these western
boats or bateau's.

Though there is not a picture of a 'York Boat', he does show the Mackinaw boat of
the Missouri River Trade, the Columbia River Bateau, and a rough plan of a small
cargo or Military type Bateau. He also has included a sketch of a Maine River
Driving Bateau which was pictured/featured in Muzzle Blasts a few years ago as
representative of the types of large boats used but which he believes from a
practical sense would only be used to move logs down stream and not for cargo.

Not being absolutely positive what a York Boat looks like myself ( I have seen
sketches but it's been a while) I seem to recall that it looked much like the
Mackinaw Boat or the Columbia River Bateau. Most if not all these types of small
boats (from around 15' up to a few 60 footers) all seem to share the basic design
characteristics of the Dory. The generally have a flat bottom and pointed ends
though some have rounded sides most were built with straight, though flared sides.
Another good book to look at is John Gardners "The Dory Book". There are quit a
few plans in this book of early types of bateau's and dories and the basic
important points of construction are dealt with quit well. I built the 19' heavy
Bateau from this book a couple years ago and use it on our float-in treks up here
in the Pacific North West. It is quit handy, very fast, will handle a small amount
of sail, can be rowed or paddled and has a large load capacity for it's size. I
would have made it a bit wider if I had thought of it in time. It was relatively
easy to build for a first boat. Just like most of these early boats, mine is flat
bottomed with a small amount of rocker, flared sides and fairly sharp shear
water/rake to the bow and stern. I have rigged it with thole pins to trap oars and
a drop on rudder to aid steering with oars or sail. I use lee boards instead of a
center board and have a removable mast partner located between the gunwales over a
fixed mast step quit far up forward.

Last spring it sailed up river on the Palouse R. from the mouth just off the Snake
to our camp site with my wife and a buddy and our basic trekking gear with no
problems. I rowed it out against a very vicious head wind (25+ knots) with John in
the stern manning the rudder and the wife in the bow to hold it down. We shipped
no water and though the going was slow, (slower than you could walk due to the
wind velocity) it handled as well or better than freight canoes with four to six
paddlers.

You may already be aware of the information I've shared above but hope that those
who go out on treks in modern canoes will consider actively pursuing converting to
wooden boats. They add immeasurably to the enjoyment  of such ventures and are
well within the skills of anyone who can put together a rifle. Fair winds to you,
I remain.......

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:34:07 -0600
From: "larry pendleton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:bounty

I ain't sceered !
Pendleton

- ----------
> From: Dennis Miles <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:bounty
> Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 8:02 PM
>
> Pendleton...
>  Either join in, or we will shift our attention to you....<G>
> Soooo...????
> D
>
>    "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
>           DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
>   Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
>     http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
> -----Original Message-----
> From: larry pendleton <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 8:37 PM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:bounty
>
>
> >Ya'll ought to quit picking on little Lanney Rue.
> >Pendleton
> >
> >----------
> >> From: Dennis Miles <[e-mail]>
> >> To: [e-mail]
> >> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:bounty
> >> Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 6:52 PM
> >>
> >> Lord, Son.... Do you KNOW how much I would have to charge for knives
if
> >that
> >> were the case??<G>
> >>
> >> D
> >>
> >>    "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
> >>           DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
> >>   Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
> >>     http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Ron and Gayle Harris <[e-mail]>
> >> To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> >> Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 6:27 PM
> >> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:bounty
> >>
> >>
> >> >is that per pound?!!!
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >From: Dennis Miles <[e-mail]>
> >> >To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> >> >Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 10:05 PM
> >> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List:bounty
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>Ron,
> >> >> I figger he's worth $5. American....Mebby...
> >> >>D
> >> >>
> >> >>   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
> >> >>          DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
> >> >>  Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
> >> >>    http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
> >>
> >>
> >
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:55:37 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Dennis Miles)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:bounty

Be afeared my  friend.. Be veery afeared....<G>
D

   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
          DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
  Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
    http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
- -----Original Message-----
From: larry pendleton <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, February 22, 1999 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:bounty


>I ain't sceered !
>Pendleton
>
>----------
>> From: Dennis Miles <[e-mail]>
>> To: [e-mail]
>> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:bounty
>> Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 8:02 PM
>>
>> Pendleton...
>>  Either join in, or we will shift our attention to you....<G>
>> Soooo...????
>> D
>>
>>    "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
>>           DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
>>   Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
>>     http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: larry pendleton <[e-mail]>
>> To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>> Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 8:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:bounty
>>
>>
>> >Ya'll ought to quit picking on little Lanney Rue.
>> >Pendleton
>> >
>> >----------
>> >> From: Dennis Miles <[e-mail]>
>> >> To: [e-mail]
>> >> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:bounty
>> >> Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 6:52 PM
>> >>
>> >> Lord, Son.... Do you KNOW how much I would have to charge for knives
>if
>> >that
>> >> were the case??<G>
>> >>
>> >> D
>> >>
>> >>    "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
>> >>           DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
>> >>   Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
>> >>     http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Ron and Gayle Harris <[e-mail]>
>> >> To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>> >> Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 6:27 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:bounty
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >is that per pound?!!!
>> >> >-----Original Message-----
>> >> >From: Dennis Miles <[e-mail]>
>> >> >To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>> >> >Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 10:05 PM
>> >> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List:bounty
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>Ron,
>> >> >> I figger he's worth $5. American....Mebby...
>> >> >>D
>> >> >>
>> >> >>   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
>> >> >>          DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
>> >> >>  Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
>> >> >>    http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:59:01 -0500
From: Michael Pierce <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: new gun

terry you have to get consistant---the new barrel needs a .575 round ball
and a .o17 patch--get it from sears and wash it 3 or 4 times before you
shoot it---tear it into strips about 5 to 6 lines wide---also get out the
scower bright and run it down the bore a couple of times with wd-40 on it
to take out the burrs---sounds like it's cutting patches--them colerans
are good shooters but have extremely sharp rifleings and sometimes you
have to take off the burs---give me a hoot and we can discuss it more if
you have any further problems---remember ---good barrel---sharp
riflings--may have to smooth them out a bit---

      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:20:35 -0700
From: "Charlie P. Webb" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Winter Convention

Linda,
I am sorry to say that it is highly unlikely that we the (CSMLA)
can or will be able to change the RMC dates.  What we try to
do is select dates that are not in conflict with other events,
National's etc.  Here in Colorado there is a rendezvous or shoot
going on every weekend from Memorial Day to Labor Day the
dates we have selected do not conflict with any other event being
held within the State.  Some of the clubs in colorado, like the
C Springs M.L. Inc.  and the Bell's Fort club in Pueblo, Co. have
held their events on the same dates for better than 25 years.
     I will voice your concerns and comments at out next
meeting of the board, perhaps we can find a way to acomodate.
I will give it my best shot!

Respectfully,
C Webb
CC CO.


On Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:06:42 -0800 (PST) linda lawyer
<[e-mail]> writes:
>
>
>I too have to return to work on the 4th. of August.  Many school
>districts begin around the first of August. Could you consider moving
>the date of the Rocky Mountain College up a little....maybe mid June
>or late July.  Just a thought, Linda Lawyer
>
>
>---Linda Holley <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the INFORMATION.  It definitely explained everything.  I
>cannot
>> go in the summer anymore because they have changed my job starting
>to the
>> 1st. of August.  But I am interested in the March doings.
>>
>>
>> Linda
>>
>> "Charlie P. Webb" wrote:
>>
>> > Linda,
>> > The Colorado State Muzzle Loading Associations Winter
>> > Convention was born many years ago as a method of
>> > treating "Cabin Fever".  Many of us Buckskinners,
>> > Mountaineers, renactors and such needed a way to break
>> > the daily monotony and doldrums of winter camp.  I don't
>> > know who first came up with the idea of holding a Winter
>> > Convention on a State level, could have been the original
>> > founders of the CSMLA  (The Out House Gang ) anyway
>> > it was and is a great fun time.  My wife and I have attended
>> > every one since the beginning, it's a great way to get together
>> > with old friends and meet new ones.  Our main goal is to
>> > interest  new folks in the use of primitive firearms with safety
>> > stressed from the gitgo,  to Living History, Buckskinning,
>> > Long Hunters or what ever your cup of tea might be. It is also
>> > a part of our goal to "kick the hivernants" in the pants and
>> > rekindle their enthusiasm for our sport. We invite qualified
>> > instructors do classes (much like our Rocky Mountain College
>Rendezvous
>> > August 8-15) on subjects of their choice pertaining
>> > to their period of interest.  We simply say pre-1840, actually
>> > we have folks involved from the early 1750's thru the F&I to the
>> > Revolution  and on up through the America's involvement in Fur
>> > hunting and trading.  We also have a growing number of folks
>> > interested in as I choose to call it, The War of The Northern
>> > Invasion, even though this event began in 1860 they are also
>> > welcome.  We turn no one away from our door, we try to include
>> > and offer things of interest to all of the  Muzzle Loading
>> > Community, not just one facet of the sport.  Since we are
>> > attempting to interest new people in what we do, we are not
>> > "clothes police" we speak of  authenticity, but are not going
>> > to criticize or chastise any one who is trying, but hasn't quite
>> > done enough research to create the perfect outfit or persona.
>> > Shucks, I began playing this living history thing back in 1947
>> > and am still trying to get it right.  Some of us are just a bit
>> > slower than others. <<GAG>> We have a good traders room
>> > and attempt to showcase only period wares, however as in
>> > all things, something sometimes falls through a crack.  We also
>> > have a Banquet and awards ceremony Saturday evening, then
>> > for me the most fun, an auction of goods donated by traders
>> > or any one that has something neat pertaining to muzzle
>> > loading.  Items are from canvas goods, leather bags and such,
>> > Damascus knives, carved antler handled knives, trade silver,
>> > fire irons,  (we have several excellent blacksmiths in CSMLA)
>> > you name it, it will probably be on the auction block.  In 1999
>> > we have four class rooms with hourly selections for the learning
>> > experience. Everything from basic flint lock to a class I do
>> > on the etiquette of photography and camera use at rendezvous
>> > and living history events.  This year at 10:00 AM all class rooms
>> > will be closed so all that can will attend the Wildlife meeting.
>It
>> > is critical that we have as much input from the members as
>> > possible so that a plan can be developed to hopefully preserve
>> > our Muzzle Loading Season.  One need not be a member to
>> > attend, but naturally the more members we can acquire the
>> > stronger our bargaining platform with the DOW will be.  Linda
>> > our Winter Convention is a fun thing, perhaps not as authentic
>> > as some would like, but we are trying cover a large block of
>> > time as best we can.  The Rocky Mountain College and the
>> > Winter Convention  was designed to be learning experiences
>> > for pilgrims, however it has grown into much more that.
>> > We also hold the associations business meeting and the
>> > election of new officers and board members at the Winter
>> > Con. It is my personal opinion based on reading your past
>> > posts that you might enjoy the Rocky Mountain College
>> > a bit more than the Winter Con.  The College runs for 8 days,
>> > and the Winter Con. for 2 days.  The RM College is not
>> > totally primitive, we try to acomodate as many folks as we
>> > can. We offer a Tin Tipi camp, Handicap camp, and long term
>> > primitive and short term primitive camps.  Since the event is
>> > held in Bayou Salado  a favorite hang out for Bridger, Carson,
>> > Beckwith and Jim Baker the flavor is definitely western
>> > Mountaineer or Mountain Man.  Didn't intend for this to turn
>> > into a book,  but if you need or want more information you
>> > may feel free to contact my wife or  myself.  Thank you for
>> > your interest.
>> >
>> > Respectfully,
>> > C Webb
>> > AKA Old Coyote
>> > CC CO
>> >
>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > >> From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
>> > >> To: History Text <[e-mail]>
>> > >> Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 10:08 PM
>> > >> Subject: MtMan-List: Winter Convention
>> > >>
>> > >> >How many of us on this list will be at the CSMLRA Winter
>Convention
>> > >in
>> > >> >Denver in March?
>> > >> >
>> > >> >DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >
>> > >
>>
>>
>>
>
>==
>
>
>Keith and Linda Lawyer
>[e-mail]
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:48:06 -0700
From: "Charlie P. Webb" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Winter Convention

Sidney,
Sorry for leaving the dates out, I had included them in an
earlier post but will do so again. Colorado State Muzzle Loading
Association's "Winter Convention"  March 6 and 7  1999 at
the Radisson Hotel, Greystone Castle I-25 and 120th Ave.
Thorton Colorado  1-800 422-7699 (8 AM to 6PM)

Respectfully,
C Webb
CC CO.


On Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:36:56 -0800 "Sidney Porter" <[e-mail]>
writes:
>Charlie,
>
>Don't know that I'll be able to go, but when in March is the
>convention and
>where is it held?  You have made me want to go.  It sounds
>interesting,
>informative, and fun.
>
>Sidney
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:56:17 -0700
From: Antonio Didonato <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: fort buonaventura

Hi,

Do you, by any chance, have any information on any link related to the fort
buonaventura in Ogden, Utah? I Am interested in the mountain men
rendezvous's schedule and activities.  I would immensely appreciate it if
you would forward any information to me that would lead me to that goal.

with gratitude, best regards.

Antonio.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:24:29 -0800
From: Dennis Fisher <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: new gun

terry l landis wrote:

> ho the list.
>  i have a new gun with a colerian swamped barrel in .58 cal.
> here's the problem, in trying to work up a load i found that the patches
> I'm using a being torn up pretty bad sometimes.

I would recommend unbreaching your rifle and slugging the barrel to find out
the exact caliber.  Take one of your .58 caliber balls,  flatten it slightly
with a hammer, then take a wooden mallet and hammer it into the muzzle.  It
only has to be wide enough to fill the grooves. Use your ramrod to push it
through the barrel and out the breach.  Then mic the slug to find your land
and groove diameter.  The land diameter is the most critical.  Also remember
that the patching wraps all around the bullet so a .0015" patch takes up
.0030" of the available diameter.  You can take two thicknesses of patching
and squeeze them between the jaws of a vernier caliper to get a pretty good
idea of how much the patch will compress.  So the compressed thickness of the
patches plus the ball diameter should be pretty close to the land diameter.
Since you want the ball to fit snug but not too snug there is always some
trial and error involved but you have to start somewhere.  I started with a
.558, then tried a .560, and finally ended up with a .562 ball.  As for the
patches, I do all my tests with spit patches.  If it don't work right with a
spit patch it isn't right (in my opinion).  The proper powder charge, ball
diameter, patch material, patch thickness, and choice of patch lubricant will
take a little while to work out but the patches will tell you how you are
doing.  I shoot a .58 myself and use .0015" pillow ticking.  Wash it first to
get all the sizing out of it (the pillow ticking not the rifle).  Buy a
couple of yards and run it through the washing machine then dry it like any
other cotton material.  I tear it by hand into 2" wide strips a couple of
feet long.  When everything is working right your patches will have a nice
tan color in the center and the rifling marks will be distinct and tan also.
The patches will look good enough to reuse.  The rest of the patch will
retain it's pillow ticking color and look.  If the powder charge is correct,
I like 2F,  you will see some red streaks of sulper at the muzzle (assuming
you're using real black powder).   Starting out around 70 grains should be
good and work your way up.  You want to be checking accurracy while you're
doing all this too.  I got my .58 from Walt McCurdy, back in 1976 and
wouldn't trade it for anything.  It took me the better part of a summer to
get it turned.  One other thing, I mentioned that patch lube can make a
difference.  I tried several commerical lubes with no real success, bear oil,
and a home brew of parafin, lard, and bee's wax.  The home brew and spit
patches worked best.  Just switching lubes can mean the difference between a
beautifully formed patch and a twisted, smoking, burnt rag.  That is why I
say to work with spit patches until you get everything working.  Then if you
want to experiment with other lubes, especially for cold weather when spit
won't work, you have a basis to compare them with.

                Dennis

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:03:56 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: trade goods

I need help fast!  I'm putting together an educational unit on beavers and the
furtrade.  I need get some idea of what trade goods for worth.  For example:
how many pounds of coffee, flour, or sugar could you get for a beaver pelt?
How many beaver pelts would it take to puchase a blanket, rifle, or hatchet?
Any help would be greatlly appreciated.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:17:39 -0700
From: Dean Rudy <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Fwd: rendezvous

>Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:31:00 -0600
>From: mike perry <[e-mail]>
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win16; I)
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: rendezvous
>
>Don't know how far most folks are willing to travel but the Easter
>weekend rendezvous will once again be at Fort Buenaventura in Ogden
>Utah.
>Let me know if you are interested.
>
>Mike Perry
>[e-mail]
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:23:02 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fort buonaventura

Here is the contact information for the Fort.  Maybe they can help.

Ft. Buenaventura State Park
2450 A Avenue
Ogden, Utah 84401-2203
[phone]

Burned Belly

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #245
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