ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/hist_text/archive/v01.n234

Internet Message Format | 1999-02-11 | 36KB

From: [e-mail] (hist_text-digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #234
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


hist_text-digest      Thursday, February 11 1999      Volume 01 : Number 234




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 01:30:30 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: trad blanket

sorry about that last partial message, I hit the wrong @#*@! button.  What I
was getting around to is this,  I'm trying to figure out what items to have
available for our Local Ronnyvoo.  My wife is pretty crafty and can do most
things fairly well. So basically whats hot, and whats not?  Any help would be
appreciated.   Thanks in advance.

YMHS,
Wade "Griz" Smith
Meridian, ID

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:28:14 -0500
From: "Mill, Kirk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: trad blanket

>  I'm trying to figure out what items to have
> available for our Local Ronnyvoo.  My wife is pretty crafty and can do
> most
> things fairly well. So basically whats hot, and whats not?  Any help would
> be
> appreciated.   Thanks in advance.
>
> YMHS,
> Wade "Griz" Smith
> Meridian, ID
    [Mill, Kirk]  I'm looking at the same situation. Right now I am
hoping that I can make some cash or barter with my gourd canteens. I have
basically an unlimited supply of dried gourds. I clean out the insides, seal
the insides with parrafin, sew on a support harness made from buckskin I
tanned, and add a cork and rope strap. What do you folks think that
something like this is worth? TIA
    Kirk Mill

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:23:24 -0600
From: "Jody Carlson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Track of the Wolf

Hello the list,

Can any of you tell me if Track of the Wolf has a website?

I am also wondering as to the cost of their latest catalog.

Thanks in advance,

Jody
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:37:57 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trad blanket

In a message dated 2/10/99 6:36:36 AM !!!First Boot!!!, Griz writes:

<< sorry about that last partial message, I hit the wrong @#*@! button.  What
I
 was getting around to is this,  I'm trying to figure out what items to have
 available for our Local Ronnyvoo.  My wife is pretty crafty and can do most
 things fairly well. So basically whats hot, and whats not?  Any help would be
 appreciated.   Thanks in advance. >>

  Well Griz, I'm not going to be of much help here, but there are plenty who
can give you a good detailed list. I just figured I'd make a comment.  You
don't really HAVE to have a trade blanket unless it's really something you
just want to do. Myself, if it's yer second vous, I'd just go and enjoy. Look
around with the trade thing on yer mind and see what suits yer fancy. Looking
at it from that perspective something may jump out at you that you overlooked
at the yer first vous that will have you saying "man I can do that and I think
I would really enjoy that." Going to rendezvous does not mean that you have to
set out a blanket. I just through that in because I have talked with people
who came away with the impression that it was a "must" to do. I've been in
this game fer almost ten years now and have yet to throw a blanket. If I get a
hair to make something, it will either be for my own use or to give to a good
friend. I just go to rendezvous, have a great time and rather than try to sell
anybody anything, I'll spend time just talking to the flatlanders (public) and
explain what it is I am portraying etc.  Also at this early stage you are
still trying to develop and define the character you want to portray and then
you will find yerself redefining etc.  I would just concentrate on that for
starts.  Maybe why I haven't set to trading, I'm still redefining my
character...........maybe someday I will find myself!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:10:18 -0800
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Track of the Wolf

Jody Carlson wrote:

> Hello the list,
>
> Can any of you tell me if Track of the Wolf has a website?
>
> I am also wondering as to the cost of their latest catalog.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Jody
> [e-mail]

Jody,

www.trackofthewolf.com> I don't recall what I paid for the cataloge but
it was about $5 or so. I remain......

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:58:57 -0800
From: Pat Laughlin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Track of the Wolf

Their catalog is $7 and it is a big one.  Telephone #  [phone]
FAX  [phone]   Latest catalog is good thru 2000.   Really a nice
one.   www.trackofthewolf.com is their web site   email [e-mail]

Jody Carlson wrote:

> Hello the list,
>
> Can any of you tell me if Track of the Wolf has a website?
>
> I am also wondering as to the cost of their latest catalog.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Jody
> [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:40:54 -0800
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trad blanket

Kirk and Meridian "Griz",

I would expect to pay about $20 for a gourd canteen, Kirk. I have grown and made
them too but it has been a few years since I got a decent crop. I once got close
to $75 per gourd in a trade for some quill work but that was "Mountain Prices"
for sure. I still figure I owe the quiller some more gourds. <G>

As to what to do for a trade blanket, I like the idea of waiting until you have
a few "Rendezvous under you belt, Griz. But what I like to see on a trade
blanket are items that I know are authentic to the Rendezvous era and not just
cute looking handy crafts made of beads, feathers and commercial leather. I
appreciate someone who has taken the time to research his "stock" to make sure
it is correct for the period. So much of what is seen at even the big National
Rendezvous these days sadly does not fit into that category and at the smaller
shoot/rendezvous the problem is even greater. It is a problem in that what folks
(especially the new people) see on trade blankets is what they perceive to be
historically correct when in reality it is more correctly tourist trap junk. It
dilutes the efforts of all who put as much into the sport as they can, trying to
be authentically representative of the real historical event. It's almost
cheating. Pretty strong words, I know but some times it needs to be said. So go
and see, research what is right, build it with care and craftsmanship, trade it
with pride.

BTW, where am I coming from? I was the "Trade Chief" for the last non NMLRA
Western Nationals in Viapon Park. I did my best to see that what was offered for
sale was period correct. Wish I could have done more. I remain.......

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:01:59 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Angela Gottfred)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Capotes & stuff...

"Scott Janzen" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Can one of y'all tell me the correct pronunciation of "Capote"? Is it
>"ka-pote" or "ka-potee"?
>This has been bugging me for a while...

Me too! Capote is originally a French word, and in Canadian fur trade
journals c.1774-1821 it is usually spelled 'capot' but sometimes 'capote'.
Today, the French pronounce capot as 'cap-oh' and capote as 'cap-ought'. The
problem is that there have been big changes in French pronunciation since
the establishment of New France, and the French-Canadians (the ones who
brought this great garment to the fur trade) kept using the old
pronunciations. This means that another possible pronunciation might be
'cap-oat',and that even 'cap-oaty' might be correct. For now, I say 'cap-oh'.

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred

P.S. I don't know Spanish, but Spanish & French are related languages. Is
there a Spanish word 'capote' which is adding to the confusion?
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:55:28 -0700 (MST)
From: [e-mail] (BRUCE S. DE LIS)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Track of the Wolf

Catalog $7.00  E-Mail is: [e-mail]   Web is: wwwtrackofthewolf.com

And they do answer their E-Mail



B
>
>Hello the list,
>
>Can any of you tell me if Track of the Wolf has a website?
>
>I am also wondering as to the cost of their latest catalog.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Jody
>[e-mail]
>
>
>

- --
"The Price Of Freedom
     Is Not Free"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:29:19 -0700 (MST)
From: [e-mail] (BRUCE S. DE LIS)
Subject: MtMan-List: What Period, and What is Period Correct??

What period of time do you call it, I know the Period just before the Revolution
ary War was called the Long Hunter Period, that came the war with England, we won
 became the U.S.A. the original 13 colonies became 13 States, and soon the Caroli
nas, Tennessee, & Kentucky started becoming inhabited   Buy a lot of people and t
he are started growing towns, so when this was happening that being the settlemen
t of Carolinas, Tennessee, & Kentucky.  What period of history does the Muzzle lo
ading community call this, and about when was it happening 1780's or later?

B

- --
"The Price Of Freedom
     Is Not Free"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:54:09 -0500
From: greg n bosen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Linseed Oil

bob,
    what is the ratio for the iron oxide to linseed oil.  or what
would be the ammounts to cover a 10x12 canvas.
Also, will this linseed oil / iron oxide combination waterproof a
relatively loose woven canvas.  how tight does the canvas need to be?


Greg Bosen


<<<<SNIP>>>>>>
>I've waterproofed canvas using linseed oil, but never used beeswax in
>it.
>The formula I used was simply boiled linseed oil and iron oxide
>powder.
>Iron oxide comes in two forms, a yellow and a rust brown. Both are
>used in
>making pottery glazes, and can be had in bulk at pottery making shops.
>The
>iron oxide acts as the filler, fills the pores in the fabric, and is
>important in the process.
<<<<<SNIP>>>>>
>Bob
>
>
>Bob Spencer <[e-mail]>
>non illegitimi carborundum est
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:12:47 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Bob Spencer)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Linseed Oil

>        what is the ratio for the iron oxide to linseed oil.  or what
>would be the ammounts to cover a 10x12 canvas.

My cloth is 8x8, and I used 2 quarts of boiled linseed oil and 3 cups of
iron oxide. I would think you would need about 3 quarts and 4 cups, but
that's a guess.

>Also, will this linseed oil / iron oxide combination waterproof a
>relatively loose woven canvas.  how tight does the canvas need to be?

I can't really answer that, Greg. I've only ever made one cloth, and the
weave was fairly tight on that cloth. The pigment fills the weave, and I
would guess that it would do so more easily if the weave were fairly tight,
the holes in it fairly small.

If you are going to try this, let me recommend you watch Baker do it on his
video, or read his instructions in the Muzzleloader article of Mar/Apr,
1989. I read the instructions to make mine, and it was easy to understand.
also, I'm sure there are people on this list who have made them, and they
might have some good advice to offer.

Bob

Bob Spencer <[e-mail]>
non illegitimi carborundum est

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:07:01 -0800
From: Tom Roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Oilcloth

I've scoured the archives of this forum and find no reference to the use
of oilcloth
for shelter, particularly <1820 and am wondering if it is an acceptable
alternative
to canvas.  Any thoughts?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:07:57 -0500
From: Michael Pierce <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What Period, and What is Period Correct??

1780 to 1800 ---(dates may be wrong but believe this age was called the
golden age of muzzle loading---

      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:42:20 -0600
From: "Douglas  Hepner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trad blanket

    I would just like to agree with Lodgepole on this issue, but if you
just want to have a trade blanket, I recomend keeping the skinner's in
mind. I get frustrated when I go to "traders row" and find nothing but
tourist (flatlander) goods. I guess what I'm saying is, I tend to spend
more time looking at trade blankets with "quality" items designed with the
skinner in mind, than looking at dream catchers made for the flatlanders
fancy. I wish more traders would carry products more catered to the wants
of the re-enactor but they gotta do what makes them the most money I guess.
But the fact remains if you want people to leave traders row to shop at
your blanket, give them a reason to do so. Some of the best items I have
purchased came off of trade blankets.
    Good Luck!
"Dull Hawk"

- ----------
> From: Mill, Kirk <[e-mail]>
> To: '[e-mail]'
> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: trad blanket
> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 8:28 AM
>
>
> >  I'm trying to figure out what items to have
> > available for our Local Ronnyvoo.  My wife is pretty crafty and can do
> > most
> > things fairly well. So basically whats hot, and whats not?  Any help
would
> > be
> > appreciated.   Thanks in advance.
> >
> > YMHS,
> > Wade "Griz" Smith
> > Meridian, ID
>     [Mill, Kirk]  I'm looking at the same situation. Right now I am
> hoping that I can make some cash or barter with my gourd canteens. I have
> basically an unlimited supply of dried gourds. I clean out the insides,
seal
> the insides with parrafin, sew on a support harness made from buckskin I
> tanned, and add a cork and rope strap. What do you folks think that
> something like this is worth? TIA
>     Kirk Mill
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:18:38 -0600
From: "stitchinscot" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trad blanket

I'm with lodgepole on this one.  Stay away from the real garbage but I've
personally seen a braintained neck bag get tossed in a campfire because it
was given as a shooters prize and the person ending up with it didn't
realize it's value.  Anything made by hand can always be traded 'up' for
something else as the 'pilgrim' gets more into the history and education of
'blackpowder'.   nuf said     Long John  #l677
- -----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Hepner <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trad blanket


>    I would just like to agree with Lodgepole on this issue, but if you
>just want to have a trade blanket, I recomend keeping the skinner's in
>mind. I get frustrated when I go to "traders row" and find nothing but
>tourist (flatlander) goods. I guess what I'm saying is, I tend to spend
>more time looking at trade blankets with "quality" items designed with the
>skinner in mind, than looking at dream catchers made for the flatlanders
>fancy. I wish more traders would carry products more catered to the wants
>of the re-enactor but they gotta do what makes them the most money I guess.
>But the fact remains if you want people to leave traders row to shop at
>your blanket, give them a reason to do so. Some of the best items I have
>purchased came off of trade blankets.
>    Good Luck!
>"Dull Hawk"
>
>----------
>> From: Mill, Kirk <[e-mail]>
>> To: '[e-mail]'
>> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: trad blanket
>> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 8:28 AM
>>
>>
>> >  I'm trying to figure out what items to have
>> > available for our Local Ronnyvoo.  My wife is pretty crafty and can do
>> > most
>> > things fairly well. So basically whats hot, and whats not?  Any help
>would
>> > be
>> > appreciated.   Thanks in advance.
>> >
>> > YMHS,
>> > Wade "Griz" Smith
>> > Meridian, ID
>> [Mill, Kirk]  I'm looking at the same situation. Right now I am
>> hoping that I can make some cash or barter with my gourd canteens. I have
>> basically an unlimited supply of dried gourds. I clean out the insides,
>seal
>> the insides with parrafin, sew on a support harness made from buckskin I
>> tanned, and add a cork and rope strap. What do you folks think that
>> something like this is worth? TIA
>> Kirk Mill
>>
>>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 03:56:20 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Roy Parker)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Linseed Oil

On Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:12:47 -0400, you wrote:

>>Also, will this linseed oil / iron oxide combination waterproof a
>>relatively loose woven canvas.  how tight does the canvas need to be?
>
>I can't really answer that, Greg. I've only ever made one cloth, and the
>weave was fairly tight on that cloth. The pigment fills the weave, and I
>would guess that it would do so more easily if the weave were fairly =
tight,
>the holes in it fairly small.

=46WIW, I've done a single whalen and a diamond.  Got better on the
diamond (natch, it was the second one) and had the sense to take it to
the laundromat with the BIG washers and wash the canvas to remove the
sizing.  I also ran it through the dryer to pre-shrink it.  Got no
proof it repels water better, but the weave was much tighter after the
wash/dry.  Cloth for both came from the local fabric store.  YMMV, but
I'd invest a couple bucks at the laundromat if I was treating a new
fly again.


Roy Parker, Buckskinner, Brewer, Blacksmith and other "B"'s, including =
"BS".
1999 SW Rendezvous info available at http://www.sat.net/~robenhaus

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:20:00 -0800
From: RANDAL J BUBLITZ <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trade blanket

If you are like most of us, you will go through an evolution of gear and
accoutrements.  Concentrate on making your own gear, if you're
particularly addept at something then you may have a niche in the trade
market.  I put out a blanket periodically, in order to 'garage sale' my
"pilgrim" stuff, and all the stuff my kids outgrow (all too soon).  If
you're looking to finance your hobby, make a good 'museum quality' widget
and it will sell.  Do your research,and you'll be safe.  Best of luck....
Hardtack

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:12:03 -0500
From: paul mueller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trad blanket

To all at there that agrees that the dealers should have re-enactors in
mind and not the flatlander stuff that can be brought at wal-mart .tell
them.so dealers only carry goods that are time 1680-1840 .some carry
flatlanders stuff but it is hand made and would have been around during
that time frame.Good dealers are leaving the shows that let this junk in
and in time this will turn the event into a glorified fle market. Save
your local shows by telling the dealer if he want to carry that stuff
you will not buy from him.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:08:56 +0100
From: Allen Chronister <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: oil cloth

Oil cloth before 1820?  Lewis & Clark certaihly outfitted
themselves with a bunch of it for their button-together
tents, equipment bags and tarps.
Allen Chronister

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:53:32 -0800
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Oilcloth

Tom Roberts wrote:

> I've scoured the archives of this forum and find no reference to the use
> of oilcloth
> for shelter, particularly <1820 and am wondering if it is an acceptable
> alternative
> to canvas.  Any thoughts?

Tom,

The one reference I can think of was in the list of goods that L&C bought to
take on their Voyage of Discovery. I don't have such a list available to me
at this moment but I'm sure I have seen oil cloth mentioned. As to its later
use, one would wonder that it's use was discontinued after a certain date
just because it isn't commented on but that may be the case. The one thing
that causes us more trouble than anything else is finding out just how it
was made. Wish I had more to share. I remain.....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:55:05 -0600
From: Don Neighbors <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trad blanket

I have had a trade blanket for around 20 years and you are right alot of
traders do sell non  period stuff. If you are going to sell stuff be
period , a fair price and nice looking. I sell blankets tomahawk, powder
horns ,knives,etc,etc. I also have a blackpowder store. If you  sell
something to some and they like it they will tell there friends. Word of
mouth is the best selling point there is.  I have been to rendezvoos
where buckskinners try to see just how hard of a time they can give you
about your stuff. So be prepared. I always point out to them  explain
what is right. Half the time they are wearing their timex watch . How
period is that.  Make your blanket orgianized just do not throw ever
thing around. Remember the customer is sometimes right.Donnie

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:40:57 -0800
From: Pat Quilter <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Oilcloth

In my humble opinion (and that's all it is) although historically available,
and thus theoretically "acceptable" I would bet the occurance of oilcloth in
the Rocky Mountains during the fur trade was about zero. Such references to
portable shelters that I can recall mention "bowers" draped with blankets,
skins or the like (and of course, other, semi-permanent structures such as
tipis, forts, etc). It's my impression that trappers did not use a prepared
shelter, although a few of the most well-equipped expeditions (such as
Stewart's) brought simple wedge tents. With all due respect to those who
prepare and use oilcloth, I find that simple untreated canvas is lighter,
more versatile, and sheds water adequately with a few basic precautions of
rigging. On the few horse outings I've participated in, we used our pack
animal mantees as shelters. When back packing, I take a canvas, and 1-2
blankets depending on weather. If things turn really snotty, we consolidate
our stuff and make communal shelters. Trappers did the same.
Humbly submitted,
Pat Quilter

- -----Original Message-----
From: Tom Roberts [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 8:07 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Oilcloth


I've scoured the archives of this forum and find no reference to the use
of oilcloth
for shelter, particularly <1820 and am wondering if it is an acceptable
alternative
to canvas.  Any thoughts?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:45:29 -0700 (MST)
From: [e-mail] (BRUCE S. DE LIS)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trad blanket

I have been reading all these comment with great interest about period correct t
rade blanket items, and also about some of the traders, and their item that are "
Wal-Mart, Tourist Trap" items.  I have never been to a Rendezvous, or any Officia
lly Sanction NMLRA event but I have been involved in the sport of muzzle loading
rifle Shooting in excess of 30 years.  Recently retire I have become more interes
ted in the sport as I have more for better use of words, free time for hobbies.
It would appear that maybe the reason that so of the items that are being sold at
 these events, are like the one member refereed to as "Wal-Mart, Tourist Trap" it
ems.  Tourist show up at Rendezvous, and the tourist don't know any better, could
 careless, or are just looking for that inexpensive souvenir to take to the grand
 kids.  Maybe the traders that see these items are just taking advantage of a sit
uation to make a buck.  I remember when driving long haul a lot of the truck stop
s out west were selling "Genuine Navajo Dream Catcher", I had never seen any of t
he real Navajo's selling the item when I made many trip across, the Navajo Reserv
ation out west, and frequent stopped at business run by the Navajo.  Than one day
 I was in this truck stop, and one of the employees were removing a perforate tag
 from back of the"Genuine Navajo Dream Catcher", that said made in Mexico??  I th
ink the best idea someone had was to boycott the Traders who are not selling any
Period Correct Items, and soon those Traders will either go away or sell item tha
t are "Period Correct".  It is the customer who is in control of what the custome
r purchases or trades for.  Not the trader, the successful Trader will see what t
he customers are buy, asking for, and provide those item for sale or trade.  Hope
 someday to attend a rendezvous, see what this is all about, appears I missing a
lot of fun.

B

"I have had a trade blanket for around 20 years and you are right a lot of
traders do sell non  period stuff. If you are going to sell stuff be
period , a fair price and nice looking. I sell blankets tomahawk, powder
horns ,knives,etc,etc. I also have a blackpowder store. If you  sell
something to some and they like it they will tell there friends. Word of
mouth is the best selling point there is." Make your blanket orgianized just do n
ot throw everthing around. Remember the customer is sometimes right."

Donnie

- --
"The Price Of Freedom
     Is Not Free"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:05:52 -0500
From: Linda Holley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trad blanket

I have on occasion told dealers and blanket traders that what they have i=
n
not in anyway period (and did it nicely...with please and a smile) items =
on
the blanket or store.  But they will not remove any item in the majority =
of
cases because the trade committee is ignorant and said it was OK or they =
do
not care what the real participants at the re-enactment really want.  Mos=
t
traders, now a days, do cater to the tourists who know nothing and do not
try in any way to educate them.  Why do so, they would loose the business.
Lets' face it, most of the events are now set up with the traders in mind
and not the campers.  We do not have to go to these events and support th=
em,
but, events seem to be getting few and far between down here in the south.
Who does educate the public????  When do trade committees finally get a b=
ack
bone and do something???  There are many people out there with the knowle=
dge
on the time period who have volunteered to help out, but are told no or
ignored because the Rendezvous committee wants more traders for the touri=
st
to come out and see.  The period camper is not as exciting as a gussyed u=
p
trading post and tourist are not too excited about seeing us cook our din=
er
or lunch.  Of course I have seen some real exciting camps that have kept =
us
all occupied by visual sights of wonder.   Those are other stories for a
long winter camp.
We are seeing in the South, a large influx of Seminole and Creek material.
That would be OK, but the material is very documented at 1920s' on appliq=
u=E9
work.  But one trader told me that he sold the Seminole outfits because h=
is
mother did such a nice job of sewing.  Even shown documentation of the ti=
me
period did not stop the selling of the materials because they are Indian =
and
no one wanted to get the trader mad.  THIS on this sight is vocal on its'
ideas of period, knowledgeable on details of what was brought in and made=
,
and is willing to learn to upgrade, change and make a better impression f=
or
themselves and others.  But today's "camper" is a weekend warrior and in
most cases only interested in having a good time.  We all know you can ha=
ve
a hell of a great time and still be in budget and look great.
I have a horrible saying that I use at many events I go too,
"if it is made of fur, feathers, leather or beads, it is legal".  That is
the credo that most committees live by and most blanket traders.  How man=
y
dream catchers and mandelas do you see in traders stores and blankets.  I
have seen too many.
Geeee, I enjoyed getting that off my chest.   (Anyone want to come and ea=
t a
strawberry??)


Linda Holley

paul mueller wrote:

> To all at there that agrees that the dealers should have re-enactors in
> mind and not the flatlander stuff that can be brought at wal-mart .tell
> them.so dealers only carry goods that are time 1680-1840 .some carry
> flatlanders stuff but it is hand made and would have been around during
> that time frame.Good dealers are leaving the shows that let this junk i=
n
> and in time this will turn the event into a glorified fle market. Save
> your local shows by telling the dealer if he want to carry that stuff
> you will not buy from him.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:03:59 -0800
From: Tom Roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Oilcloth

Well, that's kind of what I was thinking also.  I had an idea that L&C had used
oilcloth but had not seen any later references.  I expect that I will continue
to pursue my first path which is a simple square of light canvas with some
sewn-on loops that can be configured as a diamond, a fly, an A-frame over a
rope, a lean-to, and who knows what else a bit of creative rigging might make.
I'm wondering about the right stuff to sew it with.  I'm concerned that ordinary
cotton thread won't withstand much outdoor use.  I have some rather heavy waxed
linen cord but the needle necessary to use that stuff will leave pretty big
holes. Any ideas?

Tom



Pat Quilter wrote:

> In my humble opinion (and that's all it is) although historically available,
> and thus theoretically "acceptable" I would bet the occurance of oilcloth in
> the Rocky Mountains during the fur trade was about zero. Such references to
> portable shelters that I can recall mention "bowers" draped with blankets,
> skins or the like (and of course, other, semi-permanent structures such as
> tipis, forts, etc). It's my impression that trappers did not use a prepared
> shelter, although a few of the most well-equipped expeditions (such as
> Stewart's) brought simple wedge tents. With all due respect to those who
> prepare and use oilcloth, I find that simple untreated canvas is lighter,
> more versatile, and sheds water adequately with a few basic precautions of
> rigging. On the few horse outings I've participated in, we used our pack
> animal mantees as shelters. When back packing, I take a canvas, and 1-2
> blankets depending on weather. If things turn really snotty, we consolidate
> our stuff and make communal shelters. Trappers did the same.
> Humbly submitted,
> Pat Quilter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Roberts [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 8:07 PM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: MtMan-List: Oilcloth
>
> I've scoured the archives of this forum and find no reference to the use
> of oilcloth
> for shelter, particularly <1820 and am wondering if it is an acceptable
> alternative
> to canvas.  Any thoughts?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:24:42 -0800
From: Pat Quilter <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Oilcloth

Unless you use a glover's needle (with cutting edges) the thick needle and
thread should just push aside the fibers, leaving a fairly tight seal. Your
tie straps will naturally be sewn along a short distance to spread the
strain evenly. You will get some drippage at these points, but only a few
drops. I assume you have seen the trick where you take a small rock or
musket ball, poke it into the cloth forming a little pouch, and tie a cord
or thong firmly around the "neck" to use as tie points. I do this and use a
plain old canvas drop cloth with no loops etc. It takes a few minutes extra
at the camp, but you can put the ties anywhere you want along the edges or
in the middle. It sounds like you're on the right track overall.
Pat Quilter


- -----Original Message-----
From: Tom Roberts [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 7:04 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Oilcloth


Well, that's kind of what I was thinking also.  I had an idea that L&C had
used
oilcloth but had not seen any later references.  I expect that I will
continue
to pursue my first path which is a simple square of light canvas with some
sewn-on loops that can be configured as a diamond, a fly, an A-frame over a
rope, a lean-to, and who knows what else a bit of creative rigging might
make.
I'm wondering about the right stuff to sew it with.  I'm concerned that
ordinary
cotton thread won't withstand much outdoor use.  I have some rather heavy
waxed
linen cord but the needle necessary to use that stuff will leave pretty big
holes. Any ideas?

Tom



Pat Quilter wrote:

> In my humble opinion (and that's all it is) although historically
available,
> and thus theoretically "acceptable" I would bet the occurance of oilcloth
in
> the Rocky Mountains during the fur trade was about zero. Such references
to
> portable shelters that I can recall mention "bowers" draped with blankets,
> skins or the like (and of course, other, semi-permanent structures such as
> tipis, forts, etc). It's my impression that trappers did not use a
prepared
> shelter, although a few of the most well-equipped expeditions (such as
> Stewart's) brought simple wedge tents. With all due respect to those who
> prepare and use oilcloth, I find that simple untreated canvas is lighter,
> more versatile, and sheds water adequately with a few basic precautions of
> rigging. On the few horse outings I've participated in, we used our pack
> animal mantees as shelters. When back packing, I take a canvas, and 1-2
> blankets depending on weather. If things turn really snotty, we
consolidate
> our stuff and make communal shelters. Trappers did the same.
> Humbly submitted,
> Pat Quilter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Roberts [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 8:07 PM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: MtMan-List: Oilcloth
>
> I've scoured the archives of this forum and find no reference to the use
> of oilcloth
> for shelter, particularly <1820 and am wondering if it is an acceptable
> alternative
> to canvas.  Any thoughts?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:30:05 -0800
From: Matt and Sarah Mitchell <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Magic trick

I thought you might enjoy a good magic trick.

take a look at this

http://www3.mcps.k12.md.us/users/rsfay/magic/index.html

Have fun!!

"Pockets"
A.K.A.
Matt Mitchell
Palouse Hills Muzzleloaders
Moscow, Idaho
[e-mail]

  "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist---"
  General John B. Sedgwick's last words, 1864


------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #234
*******************************

-
 To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to
"[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.