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hist_text-digest       Tuesday, January 5 1999       Volume 01 : Number 211




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 16:04:51 -0800
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Documentation Question

Phyllis and Don,

Phyllis and Don Keas wrote:

> We have been off the list for a few days, so hope I don't sound like an
> idiot, but what is the description of a guernsey frock.  Not familiar with
> the name.

We are still trying to answer that one too. In a general way it seems to be a
knitted sweater like pullover garment with long sleeves and buttons a few inches
down the front to facilitate the putting on and the taking off. There is at least
one of what I think we are talking about pictured in a contemporary painting of a
mountain man do by (I think) Miller. Other than that I am as much in the dark as
you. They did exist though, and were probably not uncommon.

>
>
> Water - It would be the height of stupidity to try to drink outdoors
> water, especially here in Colorado.  Either take it with you or filter it.
> Anybody that wants to argue that one can pay the emergency room bill

I generally take enough water to drink if I can carry it in a boat or in a truck
or on a horse. When I go otherwise (which is most of the time) I do spend a good
portion of camp time managing my water supply. Before bed, I boil enough water to
refill my canteen so I have clean water in the morning. Any drinking in the
morning is from water boiled on the morning fire for coffee or tea (usually tea).
I try to drink as much of the previous nights canteen in the morning as possible
to hydrate the body. I then will boil up enough water to refill the canteen for
the day. If there is a fire at noon, I boil water for tea. That general  regimen
is practiced round the clock. You need all the fluids you can get and it does need
to be relatively safe. Depending on the source, I have been known to drink
untreated water but with care.

> .Food - We can't go camping five or six times a year and live off the
> land.  We have too many laws and anybody that waznts to argue this one can pay
> the fine.

There are several good articles in BOB series on period trail foods. You can haul
a lot of jerked meat, rice, corn meal, etc. with a very few spices to get you by
for quit a long time. there are wild edibles that can be learned to give a bit of
variety. Generally your diet is gona be monotonous for a while and we usually hit
the first greasy spoon we come to on the way home. Many of us try to trek where
and when we can hunt or fish. But it surely isn't necessary to kill a cow every
day to do quit well. (I 'm sure that is not what you meant).

> Medicines - I really can't see someone leaving his insulin at home for a
> week just to be more authentic.

My good friend "Digger" John has carried his insulin in a cute little leather box
for years so he can "shoot up" each morning. I have a small tin of pills that keep
me eating salty bacon. Haven't buried anyone yet.

> The one for me that is questionable is winter sleeping.  I know that the
> original mountain men chopped off branches to put under their beds to
> insulate them from the ground.  I would certainly not recommend doing that
> these days.  So what would be a reasonable alternative?

The first thing is to get past the idea you have to have down bags and a foam pad
to camp in the winter. Friends in Northern Idaho and NW Montana do their "snow
shoe" in January in 20 below temps. They camp in sage brush flats so there are no
fir bows to cut or hardwood leaves to rake into a bed. The lucky ones usually have
a brain tanned buffalo rob to wrap up in. All will have at least one good wool
blanket. The ones that sleep warm will put a couple blankets or a rob on the
ground and  two blankets or a rob over the top and sleep two to four bodies to the
pile. They share body warmth! If you are alone, you are not making that big an
impact on the forest to find a cozy little cove under a fir and relieve the limb
bound trees of a few bows to get you off the ground. Then sleep in everything you
wore during the evening around the fire that it took to keep you warm just away
from the fire. If you are dressed properly and have a warm head covering with dry
warm feet and your bed roll wrapped up in an oil cloth, you should be fine. If
not, you will wake up and rekindle the fire for a while. So you don't do this all
winter, just for a few days and nights. But you can do it.

> So for me, yes we do have to make compromises.  No mor that we have to,
> keep them under wraps as much as possible and only when we aabsolutely have
> to.
> Don Keas

There may be fellows out there that don't have to make any compromises. You and I
surely aren't one of them. But the fun of this is in pushing the edge of the
envelope. Leave the parts of the 20th Century at home that you don't really need.
I remain.......

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 17:29:48 +0100
From: Allen Chronister <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: winter sleeping

Capt Lahti is right about us tough guys up here in
Montana sleeping out in the snow with only period
gear when its well below zero.  Can't say that its
always warm and cozy, but you can certainly get
by, especially if you are as tough as we.
Anyhow, it is important (I have leared from
experience) to get something between your sleeping
envelope and the snow/ground.  A thick layer of
boughs is great, but if you cannot do that, dry
grass/weeds, sage, and small willows work too.
One of our favorite cold fighters up here are hot
rocks.  We always try to gather extra rocks and
heat them by the fire.  Then just before bed put
them into your bedroll.  Usually a rock about the
size of a loaf of bread is best.  The smaller the
rock the quicker it looses heat.  If it is REALLY
cold I have a rock or rocks at my feed, at my gut
and up by my head.  Maybe that is overkill but it
sure feels good.  I usually pack along several
cloth (like ticking) bags of a haversack size to
put the rocks in.  This is especially helpful if
you can only find smaller rocks, and it keeps your
bedding somewhat cleaner.  Wool or leather bags
are not recommended because the rocks will burn
through them too easily (or permanently fry them
in the case of leather).  Sometimes you have to
let a rock cool down some before it is safe to
handle (leather gloves are very helpful) and once
in a long while you get an exploder just like in
any fire ring.
We gauge the length and coldness of the night by
how many times you have to "re-rock"--ie, roll out
the cold rocks and rumage around the fire for more
hot ones.  A three-rock night is a long, cold one.
 If you anticipate such a thing, then stockpile
your additional rocks by the fire where they will
stay warm and you can reach them without having to
get up.
Hope this helps.  Allen Chronister

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 20:22:31 -0600
From: "yellow rose/pendleton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: drinking the wild water

Matt,
  I was a dairy farmer for twenty years. I can tell you with certainty that
there are water born diseases which can very easily be transimitted from
cattle to humans through the water. The one that comes to mind first [which
I can't spell completely] is LEPTO.  There are many different strains of
this disease. I am not qualified to tell you all there is about these
diseases, but rest assured they are nasty. Also if you are in a area where
there is runoff from other ag operations, be aware that there could be
chemicals in the water that could have an accumulative effect. I am not in
any way slamming the Farmers of this country, but 30 or 40 years ago there
were chemicals being sold and used that were supposed to be perfectly safe.
Most of what was being used back then has since been found to be unsafe and
banned from sale. Some of these chemicals are still in the ground and can
leach out from time to time . I guess what I'm trying to say is, BE
CAREFUL. You only have one body so take care of it.
F.W.I.W.
Pendleton

- ----------
> From: Matt Richards <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: MtMan-List: drinking the wild water
> Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 12:29 PM
>
> I just wanted to share a few thoughts on drinking wild water without
> purifiers, boiling or the like, but straight from the stream......
>
> I've been drinking creek water almost exclusively for the past 11 years,
> whether at home or traveling in the woods. I'm definitely concious of
what
> and where I'm drinking but if it seems like a reasonably clean mtn
stream, I
> drink up.....and I've never had any problems except an occasional runny
> crap. My understanding is that some people are far more or less
susceptible
> to giardia and such...and I think I'm on the less side.
>
> I know a lot of folks like me who continue to drink wild water despite
all
> the warnings...and don't have any problems. Most of us seem to agree that
> being careful not to drink chlorinated water is crucial. Chlorinated
water
> kills your beneficial bacteria that help you defend against giardia and
> other contaminants.
>
> I always try to drink upstream from beaver (though am sometimes surprised
to
> find them above), and don't worry much about free range cattle (even
though
> they do spread giardia), though given the choice I choose a spring if I'm
in
> cattle country. Always go for the smallest creek or spring around, and
don't
> drink from rivers.
>
> If you are worried about it, I'd encourage you to continue using filters
or
> hauling in water, giardia really sucks as far as I can tell. If you do go
> for it, ease your way in. Drink creek water from a known to be good creek
> for a while to help build up your beneficial bacteria.....and work your
way
> in from there.
>
> There ain't too much more satisfying then stickin your face in a creek
and
> taking a long  draught.....
>
> Matt Richards
> www.braintan.com
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: 04 Jan 99 20:23:29 -0700
From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Documentation Question

Roger - Thanks for the info on the frock.
As for the water, I carry as much as I can also.  I have had the bugs to
get rid of and it wasn't fun.
As for foods, I too carry the ones you mention and more.  What I wqas
getting at is you can't have fresh meat all the time, even tho we usually
take some smoked or salted meats(pork) when on our week long canoe trips.
As for cold weather, the Brothers here in Colorado always camp on
President's Day weekend, in the mountains at 9 or 10,000 feet and it is cold.  We
don';t drink a toast ;to slick willie either.  Anyway, we usually get by
ok because we do this type of camping quite a bit.  But, others may not
get the chance to do it like we do.
What I was trying to say is this:  I and my Brothers try to do it as
correct as we can.  We don't use down bags or take other short cuts if we can
help it.  For water and medicines I AM saying compromise is OK.  As
screwed up as  this planet's condition is, there simply is no other way.
Anyway, maybe this will give some food for thought and start some pretty
good discussions.


Roger Lahti wrote:
>Phyllis and Don,
>
>Phyllis and Don Keas wrote:
>
>> We have been off the list for a few days, so hope I don't sound like
an
>> idiot, but what is the description of a guernsey frock.  Not familiar
with
>> the name.
>
>We are still trying to answer that one too. In a general way it seems to
be a
>knitted sweater like pullover garment with long sleeves and buttons a
few inches
>down the front to facilitate the putting on and the taking off. There is
at
>least
>one of what I think we are talking about pictured in a contemporary
>painting of a
>mountain man do by (I think) Miller. Other than that I am as much in the
dark as
>you. They did exist though, and were probably not uncommon.
>
>>
>>
>> Water - It would be the height of stupidity to try to drink outdoors
>> water, especially here in Colorado.  Either take it with you or filter
it.
>> Anybody that wants to argue that one can pay the emergency room bill
>
>I generally take enough water to drink if I can carry it in a boat or in
a truck
>or on a horse. When I go otherwise (which is most of the time) I do
spend a good
>portion of camp time managing my water supply. Before bed, I boil enough

>water to
>refill my canteen so I have clean water in the morning. Any drinking in
the
>morning is from water boiled on the morning fire for coffee or tea
(usually
>tea).
>I try to drink as much of the previous nights canteen in the morning as
possible
>to hydrate the body. I then will boil up enough water to refill the
canteen for
>the day. If there is a fire at noon, I boil water for tea. That general
regimen
>is practiced round the clock. You need all the fluids you can get and it

>does need
>to be relatively safe. Depending on the source, I have been known to
drink
>untreated water but with care.
>
>> .Food - We can't go camping five or six times a year and live off the
>> land.  We have too many laws and anybody that waznts to argue this one
can pay
>> the fine.
>
>There are several good articles in BOB series on period trail foods. You

>can haul
>a lot of jerked meat, rice, corn meal, etc. with a very few spices to
get you by
>for quit a long time. there are wild edibles that can be learned to give
a
>bit of
>variety. Generally your diet is gona be monotonous for a while and we
>usually hit
>the first greasy spoon we come to on the way home. Many of us try to
trek where
>and when we can hunt or fish. But it surely isn't necessary to kill a
cow every
>day to do quit well. (I 'm sure that is not what you meant).
>
>> Medicines - I really can't see someone leaving his insulin at home for
a
>> week just to be more authentic.
>
>My good friend "Digger" John has carried his insulin in a cute little
>leather box
>for years so he can "shoot up" each morning. I have a small tin of pills

>that keep
>me eating salty bacon. Haven't buried anyone yet.
>
>> The one for me that is questionable is winter sleeping.  I know that
the
>> original mountain men chopped off branches to put under their beds to
>> insulate them from the ground.  I would certainly not recommend doing
that
>> these days.  So what would be a reasonable alternative?
>
>The first thing is to get past the idea you have to have down bags and a

>foam pad
>to camp in the winter. Friends in Northern Idaho and NW Montana do their
"snow
>shoe" in January in 20 below temps. They camp in sage brush flats so
there
>are no
>fir bows to cut or hardwood leaves to rake into a bed. The lucky ones
>usually have
>a brain tanned buffalo rob to wrap up in. All will have at least one
good wool
>blanket. The ones that sleep warm will put a couple blankets or a rob on
the
>ground and  two blankets or a rob over the top and sleep two to four
bodies
>to the
>pile. They share body warmth! If you are alone, you are not making that
big an
>impact on the forest to find a cozy little cove under a fir and relieve
the limb
>bound trees of a few bows to get you off the ground. Then sleep in
>everything you
>wore during the evening around the fire that it took to keep you warm
just away
>from the fire. If you are dressed properly and have a warm head covering

>with dry
>warm feet and your bed roll wrapped up in an oil cloth, you should be
fine. If
>not, you will wake up and rekindle the fire for a while. So you don't do

>this all
>winter, just for a few days and nights. But you can do it.
>
>> So for me, yes we do have to make compromises.  No mor that we have
to,
>> keep them under wraps as much as possible and only when we aabsolutely
have
>> to.
>> Don Keas
>
>There may be fellows out there that don't have to make any compromises.
You
>and I
>surely aren't one of them. But the fun of this is in pushing the edge of
the
>envelope. Leave the parts of the 20th Century at home that you don't
really
>need.
>I remain.......
>
>YMOS
>Capt. Lahti'
>
>
>
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 20:55:34 -0800
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Documentation Question

Guys,

Sorry if I sounded like I thought you were new at this. I took your questions and
statements in the vein of you not knowing how to do it and you obviously do. I don't
think we disagree on any thing and I remain.....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 02:36:29 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter sleeping

In a message dated 99-01-04 19:28:23 EST, you write:

<<  Wool or leather bags
 are not recommended because the rocks will burn
 through them too easily (or permanently fry them
 in the case of leather).  Sometimes you have to
 let a rock cool down some before it is safe to
 handle (leather gloves are very helpful) and once
 in a long while you get an exploder just like in
 any fire ring. >>

The hot rock trick definitely works!  I used it a lot before I got into using
primative gear.  I used to wrap the rocks up in my jeans.  I figured if you
inlulated the rock a bit, it'd stay hot longer.  The above advisory about hot
rocks damaging some materials should be heeded.  One realy cold night, I
heated the rocks a bit hotter than normal & used more than normal so had a
couple unwrapped.  Next morning, my jeans were scorched & my nylon tent had 2
rock size holes in the floor.  We slept warm though!

I'm surprised no one's mentioned using hay or straw under the bed roll inplace
of the pine boughs.  Works good if available & the local rules & regulations
don't object.  Just plain tree leaves work well too if you have enough of 'em.
When using these materials & spending more than one night, "fluff up" your
"mattress" of straw, hay, or leaves each night because they'll pack down &
loose both their cushioning & insulating abilities.  I like to roll up my
blanket(s) / bed roll about mid day, "fluff" the "mattress", & let it dry out
a bit because it will definitely draw moisture which also reduces it's
insulating ability.

 In cold weather, I add side curtins to my fly -- I can't document them , but
they sure cut down on the drafts & hold in the heat from the rocks that I
carefuly place so they don't touch anything.  They also afford some privacy
when on family type group events.  I've quit wrapping the rocks since that
cold night long ago in the non-period tent that wound up with ventilation in
it's floor!  Ok -- someone's going to say I'm defeating the purpose of the
"reflector design" of the fly by closing it up & not just using a fire in
front of it.  True that works well -- to a point.  I've already had one tent
burn down around me at night, & I don't care to do that again.  Because of
that, I've developed kind of a fobia about going to sleep with open flames
close to my canvas, so now, it's hot rocks that aren't too close to anything
burnable.

Another cold weather trick is to dig a trench where you're going to put your
bed, put in a layer of good hot coals from the fire, cover it with about 6" of
dirt.  Wait about 30 min, make up your bed on top of the burried coal bed.
Usualy keeps ya warm about 6 hrs if you've used enough coals. Don't skimp on
the layer of dirt on top of the coals, or you'll have some uncomfortably hot
spots.  I've also built the fire in the trench & just scatered it out after it
burned down then burried it -- works too but it's advisable to take out the
big pieces of unburned wood & just use the coals.

NM

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 03:45:08 -0600
From: Jeff Powers <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter sleeping

   >Another cold weather trick is to dig a trench where you're going to
   >put your bed, put in a layer of good hot coals from the fire, cover
   >it with about 6" of dirt.  Wait about 30 min, make up your bed on
   >top of the burried coal bed. Usualy keeps ya warm about 6 hrs if
   >you've used enough coals. Don't skimp on the layer of dirt on top
   >of the coals, or you'll have some uncomfortably hot spots.  I've
   >also built the fire in the trench & just scatered it out after it
   >burned down then burried it -- works too but it's advisable to take
   >out the big pieces of unburned wood & just use the coals.
   >NM
      Sounds like a good idea,but it would take me 3-4 days to get a trench
dug using period tools!
 The damn frost is now 5 feet deep 200 feet from any traffic. just think
its -15 and I'm going to dig in a new manhole and associated pipe today ;-)
Sure do love winter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeff Powers,Rogue & Ne'er do Well

Why do we sterilize needles for lethal injections?

Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 08:35:55 -0700
From: Vic Barkin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter sleeping

Ho Boys!

In addition to Boughs or leaves under my bedroll, I lay a horse blanket
over them as well. In snow deep enough to trench, If you dig a two foot or
more deep depression, and lay more boughs or other debris over it, you keep
yourself out of the wind. Snow caves and igloos (I've built one out of
snow, not ice) are good for extended camps, but take care not to work up a
sweat in building them, condensation on the skin is one sure way to freeze
yer ass off. On a similar note, don't kneel in the snow if you can help it.
Cold lower extemities, because of not taking simple precautions are the
most miserable I've dealt with. Cold feet and heads come next. The three
rock nights can also be eased by digging a couple of long fire pits on each
side of you. Careful that you dont roll too far one way or the other. Don't
overlook snow as an effective insulator. I've had six inches of snow fall
on me during the night and found I was warmer for it.

I've tried all these in the field and can attest to each ones merits.
different levels of effort yield different levels of comfort.

Barkin Dawg

Vic "Barkin Dawg" Barkin

AMM #1534 Three Rivers Party
"Aux aliments du pays!"

Booshway of the Powderhorn Clan of Arizona
Celebrating our 50th anniversary 1948-1998

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 02:49:26 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Documentation Question

On Mon, 04 Jan 1999 20:55:34 -0800 Roger Lahti <[e-mail]> writes:
>Guys,
>
>Sorry if I sounded like I thought you were new at this. I took your
>questions and
>statements in the vein of you not knowing how to do it and you
>obviously do. I don't
>think we disagree on any thing and I remain.....
>
>YMOS
>Capt. Lahti'
>

Capt. Lahti,

i wanted to mention that i appreciate all of you taking the liberty of
assuming that the other doesn't exactly know "how to do it".  I myself am
a good listener to the goings on around the list.  sometimes i feel as if
the prominent voices are the only audience taken in consideration.  i
speak for a percentage of the list that enjoy thorough explanations to
the "how to do it's ".   i just want you to remember that there are
people here that may need good explanations and not assum that the
subject is fully understood.


Greg Bosen

PS this is not intended to be a flame!
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 03:02:40 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter sleeping

>One of our favorite cold fighters up here are hot
>rocks.  We always try to gather extra rocks and
>heat them by the fire.  Then just before bed put
>them into your bedroll.  Usually a rock about the
>size of a loaf of bread is best.
>Hope this helps.  Allen Chronister
>


I remember at a 'vou someone had a metal box that he carried a heated
stone.  it was more of a item for a cabin.  he used it like a portable
heater.  he hung it on a latern pole.  my question is the stone. my
memory tells me it was soap stone.  i'm not sure this memory is truthful.
 is soap stone a good rock to seek out to use as a heater rock  or is
there any other rocks that you would determine as sutable to use.  you
mentioned exploding rocks.  the wives tale i've heard is to mever use
river rock around the fire.  the long period of being under water make it
basically soaked through and when you heat it the water boils and expands
thus the explosion.


Greg Bosen

This is my searching for gold and leaving two bits.

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:42:39 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Joe Brandl)
Subject: MtMan-List: staying warm

On really cold nights, I plug into my wife, she's 240 volt
forget the rocks
Joe

Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery
Call us about our professional home tanning kit-307-455-2440
Write for custom tanning prices
We produce rawhide lampshades and carry a large selection of leather and
hair on robes
Fine lodgepole furniture, pillows, Indian reproductions, paintings, baskets
check out our new web site: http://www.onpages.com/absaroka

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 13:48:03 -0800
From: "JON P TOWNS" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Going Public

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_01BE371F.AF61F920
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hardtack I have used the tree fungus for lighting my mortar what I use came
from UP Michigan you get it started you have to put it in water to put it
out.  Dennis if you have some you can spare I would be willing to trade for
it.  Later Jon Towns

- ----------
: From: Dennis Miles <[e-mail]>
: To: [e-mail]
: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Going Public
: Date: Sunday, January 03, 1999 1:24 PM
:
: Hardtack,
:  I have been sealing my tin with pine pitch  w/ a touch of wax (more
: pliable) around the inside rim. Quit usin Charcloth years ago, love punk
: wood and tree fungus..More handy..
: Yr Brother
: Dennis
: Ohio
:
:    "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
:           DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
:   Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
:     http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
: -----Original Message-----
: From: RANDAL J BUBLITZ <[e-mail]>
: To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
: Date: Sunday, January 03, 1999 4:37 PM
: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Going Public
:
:
: >Gail,  Most of our activities are out in the woods, etc....  Some of us
: >feel it is important to do a public event every once in awhile.  We
share
: >our skills and talents, in the hopes of keeping these skills alive.  I
: >keep my tinder in a two piece, press together , tin can.  At the point
: >where the cans overlap I rub beeswax around the edges, and the seam.
: >Some- times, this makes it hard to get the can open, but it keeps things
: >dry.    Hardtack
: >
: >___________________________________________________________________
: >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
: >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
: >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
: >
: >
:
:
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">Hardtack I have used the tree fungus =
for lighting my mortar what I use came from UP Michigan you get it =
started you have to put it in water to put it out.  Dennis if you =
have some you can spare I would be willing to trade for it.  Later =
Jon Towns<br><br>----------<br>: From: Dennis Miles <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>[e-mail]</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">><br>: To: <font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>[e-mail]</u><font =
color=3D"#000000"><br>: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Going Public<br>: Date: =
Sunday, January 03, 1999 1:24 PM<br>: <br>: Hardtack,<br>:  I have =
been sealing my tin with pine pitch  w/ a touch of wax (more<br>: =
pliable) around the inside rim. Quit usin Charcloth years ago, love =
punk<br>: wood and tree fungus..More handy..<br>: Yr Brother<br>: =
Dennis<br>: Ohio<br>: <br>:    "Abair ach beagan is =
abair gu math e"<br>: =
          DOUBLE EDGE =
FORGE<br>:   Period Knives & Iron Accouterments<br>: =
    <font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1</u><font =
color=3D"#000000"><br>: -----Original Message-----<br>: From: RANDAL J =
BUBLITZ <<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>[e-mail]</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">><br>: To: <font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>[e-mail]</u><font =
color=3D"#000000"> <<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>[e-mail]</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">><br>: Date: Sunday, January 03, 1999 4:37 PM<br>: =
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Going Public<br>: <br>: <br>: >Gail, =
 Most of our activities are out in the woods, etc....  Some of =
us<br>: >feel it is important to do a public event every once in =
awhile.  We share<br>: >our skills and talents, in the hopes of =
keeping these skills alive.  I<br>: >keep my tinder in a two =
piece, press together , tin can.  At the point<br>: >where the =
cans overlap I rub beeswax around the edges, and the seam.<br>: =
>Some- times, this makes it hard to get the can open, but it keeps =
things<br>: >dry.    Hardtack<br>: ><br>: =
>___________________________________________________________________<b=
r>: >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet =
e-mail.<br>: >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at <font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html</u><font =
color=3D"#000000"><br>: >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO =
[654-5866]<br>: ><br>: ><br>: <br>: </p>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></f=
ont></font></font></font></font></body></html>
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BE371F.AF61F920--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 16:51:52 -0500
From: Linda Holley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter sleeping

It is no wives tale that river rock can explode.  Be in a sweat lodge when
one goes off.  Lots of luck getting out without a scratch or two.

Linda Holley

[e-mail] wrote:

>  is soap stone a good rock to seek out to use as a heater rock  or is
> there any other rocks that you would determine as sutable to use.  you
> mentioned exploding rocks.  the wives tale i've heard is to mever use
> river rock around the fire.  the long period of being under water make it
> basically soaked through and when you heat it the water boils and expands
> thus the explosion.
>
> Greg Bosen
>
> This is my searching for gold and leaving two bits.
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:13:52 -0600
From: Jeff Powers <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter sleeping

   >memory is truthful. is soap stone a good rock to seek out to use as
   >a heater rock  or is there any other rocks that you would determine
   >as sutable to use.  you mentioned exploding rocks.  the wives tale
   >i've heard is to mever use river rock around the fire.  the long
   >period of being under water make it basically soaked through and
   >when you heat it the water boils and expands thus the explosion.
Soapstone is used by Vermont Stove Co. to line their wood stoves with,once
heated it holds the heat for a long time! I've never trusted river rocks of
any kind,but BASALT,usually a black colored rock found nearly everywhere is
one of the best to use. In its previous life it was lava that has become a
metamorphic rock over the millenia.It's miserably heavy,but to quote
Whitebird,"It is one of the best Grandfathers to use in the Inipi because it
remembers how to get hot and stay hot." Most limestones and sandstones
"spall" when heated(explode) so avoid them. As a general rule choose smooth
rounded rocks found as far from water as practical for the location
 and you will usually be safe,but if a rock starts to pop or crackle,pull it
out and let it cool and forget that one. for a "flat rock" that is cheaper
than soapstone and weighs about the same just buy hard fire brick from the
brickdealer,not mountain correct that I know of,but its as old as the kilns
of biblical times.

Jeff Powers,Rogue & Ne'er do Well

Is Disney World a people trap operated by a mouse?

Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 15:57:42 -0800
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter sleeping

Linda Holley wrote:

> It is no wives tale that river rock can explode.  Be in a sweat lodge when
> one goes off.  Lots of luck getting out without a scratch or two.

Greg,

Been waiting for some one to suggest you look for a chuck of basalt or
solidified lava. It is a very close grained rock not too distant from glass and
is used around sauna stoves since it doesn't absorb moisture and has little
tendency to explode when heated.

There are other other rocks that can be used that may be easier to find than
soap stone. A friend carried a piece of soap stone into a canoe camp we do and
slept in a boulder field of basalt! Kinda like "carrying coal to Newcastle".
Just be careful to select dense rock and dry rock. Then be careful some more,
like Linda said! I remain....

YMOS
CApt. Lahti'

>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:32:42 -0700
From: "Barry Conner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Documentation Question

Brothers,

Just a note to add to what my camp friend and brother Don has said.

A very old method of keeping meat that I have found in many reference books,
as well as told by some old rancher's here in Colorado is; (before electric
power was available in the rural areas as recent as 1955, in several places
and one that I had lived in, only 13 miles from Loveland CO), So much for
that.

Take your fresh meat and fry it well done, then you can use glass cake pans
(even tin one's),

1) cover the bottom of the container with warmed lard (available at the
store in one pound blocks).
2) put a layer of the cooked meat in with a small space between each piece.
3) pour your warm lard over the meat, making sure that the meat does not
touch the sides or each other, 3/8 inch to 1/2 inch layer of lard.
4) repeat numbers #2 and #3 as many times as possible, leaving room on last
layer to be covered with lard. Cover with a clean cloth or plastic/waxed
wrap.

What you have done is sealed each piece of cooked meat from bacteria, now
when you want meat, just remove what is needed scrape off the extra lard,
leaving it in the container to seal remaining meat. The meat you are using
is warmed in the frying pan and the lard acts as a grease to keep it from
sticking.

We have used this old method for years and have gone from 20 degree weather
to 85 degrees in 30 days, and the meat was still in excellent condition. Get
this is was stored in the large tin saltine cans all this time. By the way
these can's with the paint removed make great food container for other
items, like flour, grains, etc.

Buck
Baker Party/ Colorado
_______________
- -----Original Message-----
From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
To: hist_text <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Documentation Question


>Roger - Thanks for the info on the frock.
>As for the water, I carry as much as I can also.  I have had the bugs to
>get rid of and it wasn't fun.
>As for foods, I too carry the ones you mention and more.  What I wqas
>getting at is you can't have fresh meat all the time, even tho we usually
>take some smoked or salted meats(pork) ............................

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 19:55:24 -0800
From: Marlis Simms <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: India Rubber Canteens

This came from Swanney to me and I am sending it out to any of you who can
give him some info.  I will forward it to him in Alaska.  Thanks.




I know this is from a later time period than many of you emulate, but I'm
hoping someone can help me find some information.  The "Invoice of Sundry
Merchandise from the Rocky Mountain Outfit 1836 under charge of Fontenelle,
Fitzpatrick, & Co." includes a listing of 9 India Rubber Canteens.
Do you know what they may have looked like, how they were constructed, or
any other details about this item?

Take good care,

Marlis & Joe

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #211
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