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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest)
To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #212
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
hist_text-digest Wednesday, January 6 1999 Volume 01 : Number 212
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:15:57 -0600
From: "Lisa Radwan Clark, DVM" <northwoods@ez-net.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Mtn. man list RE:Handforged traps & trapmakers
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE38F8.F81F5380
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Does anyone have information on blacksmiths that made traps for use in
the fur trade? I'm particularly interested in information on the makers =
Standish,
(worked for AFC at Michilamackinac) Peavey,(Maine) early work of Sewell =
Newhouse (Onieda Community NY) Watkins, or any other maker that stamped=20
there name on there work. I'd also like to hear from anyone who may have
traps from these makers. Since these items were such an extremely =
important
part of the mountain mans outfit, i'd like to hear what anyone has to =
say on the
subject.
From the northwoods,
where its plenty cold rite =
now,
Tony Clark
- ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE38F8.F81F5380
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Does anyone have information on blacksmiths that =
made traps=20
for use in</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>the fur trade? I'm particularly interested in =
information on=20
the makers Standish,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>(worked for AFC at Michilamackinac) Peavey,(Maine) =
early work=20
of Sewell Newhouse (Onieda Community NY) Watkins, or any other maker =
that=20
stamped </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>there name on there work. I'd also like to hear from =
anyone=20
who may have</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>traps from these makers. Since these items were such =
an=20
extremely important</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>part of the mountain mans outfit, i'd like to hear =
what anyone=20
has to say on the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>subject.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
size=3D2> &nbs=
p;  =
; =
=
From the northwoods,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
size=3D2> &nbs=
p;  =
; =
=20
where its plenty cold rite now,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
size=3D2> &nbs=
p;  =
; =
&=
nbsp; =20
Tony Clark</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE38F8.F81F5380--
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 22:10:33 -0700
From: Dean Rudy <drudy@xmission.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Fwd: Fort Hall Replica Website
>Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 19:48:05 -0700 (MST)
>X-Template: /home/users/d/drudy/public_html/mail.txt
>To: <drudy@mail.xmission.com>
>From: "Jacquelyn J. Alvord" <jacdau2@aol.com>
>Subject: Fort Hall Replica Website
>
>Hi,
>
>I have just recently put a webpage on line that might be of interest to
you. It is the Official Fort Hall Replica Website.
>It contains information about the Replica, history of Fort Hall and the
region, Quotes from mountain men,missionaries,pioneers and persons of note
about Fort Hall, articles related to Fort Hall,the Replica, mountain men,
Native Americans,and southeast Idaho. There are also some recipes for food
of the era. It is the first website to address the history surrounding Fort
Hall in depth. I hope you have time to go by and take a look. It is in the
process of development and requires much more work, but you will get a
feeling for the overall plan. Will reduce the load time as we refine each
of the pages. Thanks,
>
>Jacquee Alvord
>Chairman, Fort Hall Replica Commission
>Pocatello, Idaho
>
>Fort Hall Replica Site
>http://poky.interspeed.net/forthall
>
>--
>This e-mail was generated from the world-wide web; the e-mail address
> "Jacquelyn J. Alvord <jacdau2@aol.com>"
>may be incorrect.
>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dean Rudy AMM#1530 Email: drudy@xmission.com
Park City, Utah WWW: http://www.mtmen.org
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:30:20 -0600
From: "Beau Stiles" <bstiles@1starnet.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: Fort Hall Replica Website
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE3903.5C395960
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am thoroughly thrilled to see a site on the replica Fort Hall. I was =
born and raised near there, and have visited many times in the past 20 =
years. It is also refreshing to see, being that I now reside in Texas, =
and only have the opportunity to visit that region for 1 week a year. =
Anyone that hasn't visited should do so. It is very interesting, and in =
one of the most beautiful parts of the country!
Beau Stiles
-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Rudy <drudy@xmission.com>
To: hist_text@xmission.com <hist_text@xmission.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 11:11 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Fwd: Fort Hall Replica Website
=20
=20
>Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 19:48:05 -0700 (MST)
>X-Template: /home/users/d/drudy/public_html/mail.txt
>To: <drudy@mail.xmission.com>
>From: "Jacquelyn J. Alvord" <jacdau2@aol.com>
>Subject: Fort Hall Replica Website
>
>Hi,
>
>I have just recently put a webpage on line that might be of =
interest to
you. It is the Official Fort Hall Replica Website.
>It contains information about the Replica, history of Fort Hall and =
the
region, Quotes from mountain men,missionaries,pioneers and persons =
of note
about Fort Hall, articles related to Fort Hall,the Replica, mountain =
men,
Native Americans,and southeast Idaho. There are also some recipes =
for food
of the era. It is the first website to address the history =
surrounding Fort
Hall in depth. I hope you have time to go by and take a look. It is =
in the
process of development and requires much more work, but you will get =
a
feeling for the overall plan. Will reduce the load time as we refine =
each
of the pages. Thanks,
>
>Jacquee Alvord
>Chairman, Fort Hall Replica Commission
>Pocatello, Idaho
>
>Fort Hall Replica Site
>http://poky.interspeed.net/forthall
>
>--
>This e-mail was generated from the world-wide web; the e-mail =
address
> "Jacquelyn J. Alvord <jacdau2@aol.com>"
>may be incorrect.
>=20
=
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dean Rudy AMM#1530 Email: drudy@xmission.com
Park City, Utah WWW: http://www.mtmen.org
=20
- ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE3903.5C395960
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>I am thoroughly thrilled to see a site on the =
replica=20
Fort Hall. I was born and raised near there, and have visited many times =
in the=20
past 20 years. It is also refreshing to see, being that I now reside in =
Texas,=20
and only have the opportunity to visit that region for 1 week a year. =
Anyone=20
that hasn't visited should do so. It is very interesting, and in one of =
the most=20
beautiful parts of the country!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT>Beau Stiles</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
</B>Dean Rudy <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:drudy@xmission.com">drudy@xmission.com</A>><BR><B>To: =
</B><A=20
href=3D"mailto:hist_text@xmission.com">hist_text@xmission.com</A> =
<<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:hist_text@xmission.com">hist_text@xmission.com</A>><BR>=
<B>Date:=20
</B>Tuesday, January 05, 1999 11:11 PM<BR><B>Subject: =
</B>MtMan-List: Fwd:=20
Fort Hall Replica Website<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>>Date: Sun, 3 Jan =
1999=20
19:48:05 -0700 (MST)<BR>>X-Template:=20
/home/users/d/drudy/public_html/mail.txt<BR>>To: <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:drudy@mail.xmission.com">drudy@mail.xmission.com</A>><B=
R>>From:=20
"Jacquelyn J. Alvord" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:jacdau2@aol.com">jacdau2@aol.com</A>><BR>>Subject: =
Fort=20
Hall Replica Website<BR>><BR>>Hi,<BR>><BR>>I have just =
recently=20
put a webpage on line that might be of interest to<BR>you. It is the =
Official Fort Hall Replica Website.<BR>>It contains information =
about the=20
Replica, history of Fort Hall and the<BR>region, Quotes from =
mountain=20
men,missionaries,pioneers and persons of note<BR>about Fort Hall, =
articles=20
related to Fort Hall,the Replica, mountain men,<BR>Native =
Americans,and=20
southeast Idaho. There are also some recipes for food<BR>of the era. =
It is=20
the first website to address the history surrounding Fort<BR>Hall in =
depth.=20
I hope you have time to go by and take a look. It is in =
the<BR>process of=20
development and requires much more work, but you will get =
a<BR>feeling for=20
the overall plan. Will reduce the load time as we refine each<BR>of =
the=20
pages. Thanks,<BR>><BR>>Jacquee Alvord<BR>>Chairman, =
Fort=20
Hall Replica Commission<BR>>Pocatello, Idaho<BR>><BR>>Fort =
Hall=20
Replica Site<BR>><A=20
=
href=3D"http://poky.interspeed.net/forthall">http://poky.interspeed.net/f=
orthall</A><BR>><BR>>--<BR>>This=20
e-mail was generated from the world-wide web; the e-mail=20
address<BR>> "Jacquelyn J. Alvord <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:jacdau2@aol.com">jacdau2@aol.com</A>>"<BR>>may =
be=20
incorrect.<BR>>=20
=
<BR>---------------------------------------------------------------------=
<BR>Dean=20
Rudy AMM#1530 Email: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:drudy@xmission.com">drudy@xmission.com</A><BR>Park =
City,=20
Utah WWW: <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.mtmen.org">http://www.mtmen.org</A><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOT=
E></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE3903.5C395960--
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 00:38:31 EST
From: MdntRdr1@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: Fort Hall Replica Website
I love the site from what I've seen so far. I had the chance to visit the
trading post right off the freeway a year ago when I went to Blackfoot on
business.
I wished I could have stayed longer, just like when I was back home this past
summer in Oklahoma. Even though I was interested in history as a kid, the
interest is not even close as what it is now.
Visiting places like this gives me a feeling of wanting to go back in time
when history we read about today was being made.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 06:40:09 +1300
From: "The Brooks" <ghbphoto@voyager.co.nz>
Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: hot rocks guernseys and water stills.
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BE393F.67814300
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
- -----Original Message-----
From: The Brooks <ghbphoto@voyager.co.nz>
To: hist_text @lists. xmission.com > <hist_text @lists. xmission.com >>
Date: Wednesday, 6 January 1999 06:26
Subject: hot rocks guernseys and water stills.
>
>As a new comer to this group I am enjoying the various discussions. come
>from Marlborough county in New Zealand. There is very little in the way of
>mountain men in NZ but there are a few of us that like that style of life.
>in fact a lot of people here still grow there own veggies,preserve their
own
>fruit and make their own cloths etc.We still heat our hot water with good
>old firewood and we still have a well that we can get water from although
>we are hooked up to the town supply. We don't have any mountains close by .
>all our hills only range between maybe 6000 and 10,000 feet so we dont
>really qualify. However for what it is worth re rocks exploding. The
>indigenous population of NZ is the Maori people and for 900 years or so
>their traditional method of cooking was by hot rocks . First dig a pit sa 2
>to 3 feet deep fill it with wood etc pile up a of rocks around it and get
>them real hot. Sometimes this is done in or out of the pit. When fire has
>died down scrape out the bigger logs left cover rocks in pit with dirt and
>pile food on top of this suitably wrapped in leaves and such. Cover the
>whole lot with dirt and wait till cooked. The point being that their rocks
>don't explode as they are specially selected. And the trick according to
>Maori elders is to select your rocks in the moonlight at night and only
>select the lighter rocks that stand out from the dark ones. Not sure if
>American rocks are the same but maybe the same principle may apply. By the
>way we are talking about dry riverbed rocks. Re the Guernsey jerseys NZ
>settled about 1830 has no real fur bearing animals so from day one we had a
>high dependency on wool.In my area it don't get that cold. Maybe 5 or 6
>frosts a year at maybe 1 to 2 degrees cent. varies year to year. However my
>wife tells me that some she has several knitting patterns for Guernsey
style
>jerseys(frocks). if anyone is interested e-mail me with their snail mail
>address and I will post them copies if she can find them. Re water
>purification. I once journied with a guy who had made up a little copper
>still that he carried with him. I always thought it a good idea but was
>never very keen on the copper part of it and thought I would use stainless
>steel. Not correct but very safe.His basic idea was a 7 inch high kettle
>about 5 inch in diameter with a filling/pouring spout that he used a cork
to
>block when distilling the water. The lid was a screw lid and in the
middle
>was a tube maybe 3/8th.s The coil part, maybe 10 coils at about 4inchs was
>bent at right angles at one end and made to slide over the tube in the lid
>although I felt that I would use a peened over or crox tooled joint and
hold
>in place with a screw type nut. When he first made camp he would dig a
>shoebox shape and size hole in the soil, sit his still over it at on end
>leaving two little dog ears for draught. He would start a fire in here with
>little twigs etc. He would first boil it and make a pot of tea and then he
>would refill and keep it going as long as he could. He could boil an
amazing
>amount of water away with some very small fuel. The other end went through
>another cork with a very loose fit hole and into his canteen which was half
>buried in the ground along side but a distance away. The coil assembly was
>supported during all this by 2 cut tree Y supports and a good sapling
>threaded through the middle. It also had a handle opposite the spout.The
>coil and corks and other supplies were stored inside the kettle when
>travelling. Make sure it don't run out of water(make the receptacle smaller
>than the kettle) This gets rid of all lurgies and metals etc.I have no idea
>how much his throuput was but his canteen always seemed to be full. Hope
>that these ramblings prove interesting. Now a couple of points to throw
into
>the hat. Would a NZ MM dressed in the style of a NZ MM of 1830..1840 be
>welcome at an AMM vous even though it would not be AMM documented authentic
>or are AMM so rabid about their pastime that nothing but AMM rules count.
>and lastly can any one out there tell me what the breed is of the brightly
>coloured water snake that lives in the little water spring that is about
>half way around the walking track at the KINGS MOUNTAIN battlefield site in
>South Carolina. Also any clues to what type the big black snake that I trod
>on (about 4 foot long) at the same site while I was trying to get a good
>look at the coloured one? We don' t have snakes here in NZ> Also good to
>see that KeeWee(Kiwi) shoe polish tins are still doing good service for
char
>cloth tins...
>Cheers
>Big Bear(NZ)
>
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 03:31:45 EST
From: NaugaMok@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Documentation Question
In a message dated 99-01-05 21:37:00 EST, you write:
<< Take your fresh meat and fry it well done, then you can use glass cake pans
(even tin one's),
1) cover the bottom of the container with warmed lard (available at the
store in one pound blocks). {etc.}
>>
This also works with fresh eggs. Remember about a year ago when I was trying
to document pickled eggs? This method came to light then, & it works. Of
course, the fresher the eggs, the better when you "seal" 'em up. I checked
with Dad, & he remembered doing this & said eggs would keep several months
this way. Don't remember who came up with the period reference for this type
of food preservation.
NM
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 07:20:22 +1300
From: "The Brooks" <ghbphoto@voyager.co.nz>
Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: Fw: hot rocks guernseys and water stills.
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01BE3945.05C9F200
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
- -----Original Message-----
From: The Brooks <ghbphoto@voyager.co.nz>
To: hist_text@xmission.com <hist_text@xmission.com>
Date: Wednesday, 6 January 1999 18:41
Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: hot rocks guernseys and water stills.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: The Brooks <ghbphoto@voyager.co.nz>
>To: hist_text @lists. xmission.com > <hist_text @lists. xmission.com >>
>Date: Wednesday, 6 January 1999 06:26
>Subject: hot rocks guernseys and water stills.
>
>
>>
>>As a new comer to this group I am enjoying the various discussions. come
>>from Marlborough county in New Zealand. There is very little in the way
of
>>mountain men in NZ but there are a few of us that like that style of life.
>>in fact a lot of people here still grow there own veggies,preserve their
>own
>>fruit and make their own cloths etc.We still heat our hot water with good
>>old firewood and we still have a well that we can get water from although
>>we are hooked up to the town supply. We don't have any mountains close by
.
>>all our hills only range between maybe 6000 and 10,000 feet so we dont
>>really qualify. However for what it is worth re rocks exploding. The
>>indigenous population of NZ is the Maori people and for 900 years or so
>>their traditional method of cooking was by hot rocks . First dig a pit sa
2
>>to 3 feet deep fill it with wood etc pile up a of rocks around it and get
>>them real hot. Sometimes this is done in or out of the pit. When fire has
>>died down scrape out the bigger logs left cover rocks in pit with dirt and
>>pile food on top of this suitably wrapped in leaves and such. Cover the
>>whole lot with dirt and wait till cooked. The point being that their rocks
>>don't explode as they are specially selected. And the trick according to
>>Maori elders is to select your rocks in the moonlight at night and only
>>select the lighter rocks that stand out from the dark ones. Not sure if
>>American rocks are the same but maybe the same principle may apply. By the
>>way we are talking about dry riverbed rocks. Re the Guernsey jerseys NZ
>>settled about 1830 has no real fur bearing animals so from day one we had
a
>>high dependency on wool.In my area it don't get that cold. Maybe 5 or 6
>>frosts a year at maybe 1 to 2 degrees cent. varies year to year. However
my
>>wife tells me that some she has several knitting patterns for Guernsey
>style
>>jerseys(frocks). if anyone is interested e-mail me with their snail mail
>>address and I will post them copies if she can find them. Re water
>>purification. I once journied with a guy who had made up a little copper
>>still that he carried with him. I always thought it a good idea but was
>>never very keen on the copper part of it and thought I would use stainless
>>steel. Not correct but very safe.His basic idea was a 7 inch high kettle
>>about 5 inch in diameter with a filling/pouring spout that he used a cork
>to
>>block when distilling the water. The lid was a screw lid and in the
>middle
>>was a tube maybe 3/8th.s The coil part, maybe 10 coils at about 4inchs was
>>bent at right angles at one end and made to slide over the tube in the lid
>>although I felt that I would use a peened over or crox tooled joint and
>hold
>>in place with a screw type nut. When he first made camp he would dig a
>>shoebox shape and size hole in the soil, sit his still over it at on end
>>leaving two little dog ears for draught. He would start a fire in here
with
>>little twigs etc. He would first boil it and make a pot of tea and then he
>>would refill and keep it going as long as he could. He could boil an
>amazing
>>amount of water away with some very small fuel. The other end went through
>>another cork with a very loose fit hole and into his canteen which was
half
>>buried in the ground along side but a distance away. The coil assembly was
>>supported during all this by 2 cut tree Y supports and a good sapling
>>threaded through the middle. It also had a handle opposite the spout.The
>>coil and corks and other supplies were stored inside the kettle when
>>travelling. Make sure it don't run out of water(make the receptacle
smaller
>>than the kettle) This gets rid of all lurgies and metals etc.I have no
idea
>>how much his throuput was but his canteen always seemed to be full. Hope
>>that these ramblings prove interesting. Now a couple of points to throw
>into
>>the hat. Would a NZ MM dressed in the style of a NZ MM of 1830..1840 be
>>welcome at an AMM vous even though it would not be AMM documented
authentic
>>or are AMM so rabid about their pastime that nothing but AMM rules count.
>>and lastly can any one out there tell me what the breed is of the brightly
>>coloured water snake that lives in the little water spring that is about
>>half way around the walking track at the KINGS MOUNTAIN battlefield site
in
>>South Carolina. Also any clues to what type the big black snake that I
trod
>>on (about 4 foot long) at the same site while I was trying to get a good
>>look at the coloured one? We don' t have snakes here in NZ> Also good to
>>see that KeeWee(Kiwi) shoe polish tins are still doing good service for
>char
>>cloth tins...
>>Cheers
>>Big Bear(NZ)
>>
>
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ADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;P O Box =
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REV:19990105T172640Z
END:VCARD
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Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 10:05:37 -0600
From: Don Neighbors <neigh@marsaglia.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: single women
Linda, Thanks for answering my letter it is nice to know you. Maybe I
will get a chance to meet you at a rendezvoo. I love bead work. Once
again Thank you. I know that this is note a dating service list but it
is not intended to be just wondering. Nice to know that there is still
hope. Don Neighbors
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:18:56 EST
From: Rkleinx2@aol.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Birthday
Today is Jedediah Smith's 200th birthday. May this great American always be
remembered.
Dick
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Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:30:56 -0800
From: "G. Pedro Kinner" <gpedro@sierra.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Birthday
Wasn't he with James Clyman away back discovering South Pass amongst other things. How
many things do you think we can come up with in a day. Happy New Years. Pedro in Lake
Tahoe
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Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:38:03 -0700
From: jbrandl@wyoming.com (Joe Brandl)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Going Public
I'm not sure we have any fungus or good punk around here, will trade for some
Joe
Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery
Call us about our professional home tanning kit-307-455-2440
Write for custom tanning prices
We produce rawhide lampshades and carry a large selection of leather and
hair on robes
Fine lodgepole furniture, pillows, Indian reproductions, paintings, baskets
check out our new web site: http://www.onpages.com/absaroka
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 13:48:55 +0100
From: Allen Chronister <almont@mt.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: tinder
I join with others who would buy or trade or
whatever to get some punk, fungus or similar
natural material that can be used for char. All
the stuff I've tried up here (Mont.) either chars
but doesn't take a spark or turns to dust when you
open the char can.
Any takers/suppliers?
Allen Chronister
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:04:31 EST
From: TetonTod@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Birthday
As a BIG Jedediah Smith fan, let me too say Happy 200th Jed! and may we always
remember him for his great exploits in spite of those who would try to
denigrate his accomplishments.
Todd Glover
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:20:51 EST
From: TetonTod@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder
The recent messages offering to trade for fungus or punk to use as tinder
since it doesn't seem to be available in the Rockies begs the question, if it
wasn't available to the mountaineers 170 some odd years ago, then what did
they use? We certainly won't see tree fungus listed on any trade records.
Last year we had a lively discussion on this topic about number of fires
needed to be struck daily, weekly , monthly etc. A point well taken was that
they probably didn't need to strike a fire multiple times each day. Some argue
vehemently that char cloth wasn't used simply because fabric was so costly and
valuable. I wonder about that.
When a shirt or scarf or pantaloons was completely wore out and beyond repair,
it certainly wasn't thown away, but likely could have been converted into char
cloth a little at a time as need arose. Even one worn out shirt or pair of
trousers would produce quite a pile of char. I have however used rotted Box
Elder wood with success.
Todd Glover
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 13:37:27 -0800
From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder
Allen,
Did you see my post on what I use for natural char material? I have some
6" birch logs that have stood out back long enough that the wood inside
has finally turned to punk, in that it will fall out of the tub formed
by the unrotted bark quit easily. That is the kind of punk wood that I
have found to work. I have tried conifer punk wood and it doesn't seem
to do the job. Have you tried aspen or alder? Maybe even cottonwood. I
would be glad to send you some birch punk to try if you like. I doubt I
have enough to be a serious supplier. Let me know. I remain......
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
Allen Chronister wrote:
> I join with others who would buy or trade or
> whatever to get some punk,
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 15:33:55 +0100
From: Allen Chronister <almont@mt.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: tinder
Maybe the problem is not in the material (punk)
(punk is punk, right?) but in the processing of it
into something that will catch sparks and can be
used to start fires.
Any special treatment required that cloth does not
get?
Whether a fungus or something was available in "my
area" in 1830 doesn't mean I wouldn't like to try
it to see what all the excitement is about.
When I was a boy scout in the early
post-plesticine (sp.) era, our favorite char was
old cotton t-shirt. Hang it on the end of a stick
and set it on fire--when it gets consumed by flame
stomp it out, and whatever is left is your char.
We didn't know any better but it catches spark
like a bastard.
Thanks for continued insight.
Allen Chronister
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:49:57 -0500
From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder
You know, Gents.. I believe this form of char was available in the
mountains...ANY shelf mushroom is usable..I prefer those from Maple,
sycamore is nice, but I have used all types.. All worked, some require more
work to catch a spark is all. And punk wood is pretty much the same, In my
opinion...But I HAVE been known to be REAL wrong..<G>
So hell, let's quit jawin on it, go out find somwe "jacks" and try 'em..
Isn't that what it is about??
Dennis Miles
AMM 1622 Hiveranno
"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 16:04:09 +0100
From: Allen Chronister <almont@mt.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: tinder
On the subject of the tender materials available
in a given area of the country, I just recently
read Sir. George Simpson's journal of his
inspection trip in 1823-4 of HBC operations. He
was out to set a land speed record for the day,
traveling from York factory on Hudson Bay allthe
way across the continent to Ft. Vancouver and back
almost literally without spending more than one
night in the same spot.
Anyhow, at one entry he refers to their punk in a
fire-starting context. Where did that punk come
from? The shore of Hundson Bay? Lake Winnipeg?
somewhere on the Saskatchewan? crest of the
Rockies? you get the point. Simpson, and his
punk, moved around quite a bit.
Please, I'm not advocating that we all use some
exotic plant material available only in south
Florida.
Allen Chronister
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 16:51:00 +0100
From: Allen Chronister <almont@mt.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: tinder
last message of the day on this--just looked at
the 1828 Webster's dictionary site that someone
posted on this list a few months back. "Punk" was
a whore, but tinder led to sponge which led to:
"Pyrotechnical spunge, is made of mushrooms or
fungi, growing on old oaks, ash, fir, & c. which
are boiled in water, dried and beaten, then put in
a strong lye prepared with saltpeter, and again
dried in an oven. This makes the black match or
tender brought from Germany."
I'm not sure what to make of all this, but it
appears that ca. 1828 fungi tender was highly
processed and was "brought from Germany." Whose
area is that? Were folks using imported
punk/tinder?
Allen Chronister
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 16:06:35 -0800
From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder
Allen Chronister wrote:
> last message of the day on this--
> I'm not sure what to make of all this, but it
> appears that ca. 1828 fungi tender was highly
> processed and was "brought from Germany." Whose
> area is that? Were folks using imported
> punk/tinder?
> Allen Chronister
Allen,
Maybe the truth lies in the middle of all this discussion. There was, as
you point out, a "commercial" source of punk. If you left home to
explore, travel, etc. you took some with you if you had it. If you ran
out or started without, then it is reasonable to suppose that the small
amount needed for a relatively long period of time in the wilderness
could be supplied by the judicious use of scrap cloth/clothing. If that
source is no longer or was never available, there are many natural
sources to make functional punk from. Let's not make this more
complicated than it needs to be, or was back then.
I feel it is quit proper to make char from any material you might
reasonably be expected to have had at hand. If you've got german punk,
you use it. If you got cloth scraps to spare, you use them. If you know
what to look for you can get your char from nature and you use it. No
absolutes, just no magnesium sticks or steel wool please. I remain......
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:19:43 -0600
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <rat@htcomp.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder
Capt.
Cottonwood works like a big dog!! Pine, too, but not nearly as good.
Lanney Ratcliff
- -----Original Message-----
From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder
>Allen,
>
>Did you see my post on what I use for natural char material? I have =
some
>6" birch logs that have stood out back long enough that the wood inside
>has finally turned to punk, in that it will fall out of the tub formed
>by the unrotted bark quit easily. That is the kind of punk wood that I
>have found to work. I have tried conifer punk wood and it doesn't seem
>to do the job. Have you tried aspen or alder? Maybe even cottonwood. I
>would be glad to send you some birch punk to try if you like. I doubt I
>have enough to be a serious supplier. Let me know. I remain......
>
>YMOS
>Capt. Lahti'
>
>Allen Chronister wrote:
>
>> I join with others who would buy or trade or
>> whatever to get some punk,
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:43:20 +0000
From: randybublitz@juno.com (RANDAL J BUBLITZ)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Birthday
"Having been so long absent from the business of trapping and so much
perplexed and harassed by the folly of the men in power, I returned again
to the woods, the river, the prarie, the camp, and the game with a
feeling somewhat like that of a prisoner escaped from his dungeon and his
chains." Jedediah Strong Smith
Happy birthday Jedediah........... Hardtack
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