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hist_text-digest        Monday, January 4 1999        Volume 01 : Number 210




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 18:26:40 -0700
From: "Barry Conner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: guernsey frocks

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Tom,
You seem to be on the right track for wanting to do things correctly, =
just remember that research is your best tools, advice from many will be =
"iffy" at best and many on this list will tell you that. Good research =
will 95% of the time give you a correct answer, then let these folks =
know what you have found. They give you their input and you'll have to =
weed it out from there.
As far as water goes you can do as many of us have and and still do, =
carry it in. We have carried in gourds and water containers, canteens on =
foot and horseback, or 5 gal.oak kegs in canoe and other types of water =
craft.
On an extended canoe trip of 1260 river miles, with no support for the 5 =
members we carried three 5 gal. oak kegs and several canteens a piece, =
when nearing a town the smaller canoe would look for a park or home near =
the river. Once found we would bargain and sometimes beg with the =
natives for refills. Usually most people are just excited to see and ask =
questions, the refill were never a problem.
Granted one needs to use common sense with the condition of our =
waterways today, but for an example we washed ourselves, our clothes and =
our cooking items in the river water whether it was the Platte, Missouri =
or the Mississippi, (we would heat the cooking items over the fire in =
hopes of killing anything harmful) I guess we were lucky in what is read =
now.
None of the members got sick, no poops - if anything we had more of a =
problem in having one with period correct foods for 28 days. Damn the =
wild rice, buffalo and foraged edibles, we were use to greasy Big Mac's =
and the like, good food just stuck with us and all the paddling at hand =
(on the water at day break and getting off at dust, making an average of =
35-40 river miles a day, left little time for anything but paddling).
Just remember to do your research, but you common sense so you don't get =
in trouble, health wise, law wise, or anyother wise.
Good Luck
Buck Conner
dba/ Clark & Sons Mercantile
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/

- -----Original Message-----
From: Tom Roberts <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Saturday, January 02, 1999 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: guernsey frocks


>I'm following this particular thread keenly since this touches on one =
of
>the key questions in my mind, for anyone who is serious about accuracy.
>The question is; For the purist, does the article of interest (be it a
>shirt, tool, or whatever) require verifiable primary documentation as
>being actually used by a particular person, at a particular place and
>time? Or is it sufficient to pass the following tests:
>    1) Must be of a material and construction that is time appropriate,
>i.e., made by hand using
>        a natural resource that was available and known to have been
>used for that purpose
>    2) Must have been available at a logical supply point, i.e., known
>to be for sale or trade at
>        a place where the persona of interest would have traded.
>    3) Must be an article that the persona of interest would have =
valued
>highly, i.e., something
>        necessary for sustenance, travel, trapping, etc., and would =
have
>logically been
>        purchased using his very limited resources.
>
>I think the honest application of these criteria will filter out just
>about everything that is not appropriate.  Another thought, which may =
or
>may not be suitable, is that every non-native
>in the Rocky mountains in 1820 came from somewhere else and may very
>well have brought the article of interest with him, again, assuming it
>to be something of need (see number 3 above).
>
>The second part of my dilemna has to do with water.  In 1820, there was
>little reason to fear disease from natural water supplies. Sadly, this
>is no longer true today.  My understanding is that there are few (if
>any) places left today where one can drink without well-founded fear. =
On
>modern outings, I am well served with a simple mechanical/chemical
>device to restore the integrity of my drinking water.   On primitive
>outings so far, there have been ample supplies of good water made
>available.   For a more lengthy trek, say several days or more by foot,
>how does one deal with this issue in a healthy way?  Just sterilize it
>all with 100 proof?
>
>(no flaming arrows, please, I'm only here to learn)
>
>Tom
>
>Allen Chronister wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure what the continued mystery is about
>> documentation for gurnsey frocks in the "mountain
>> man" period in the west..................
>
>

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<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><FONT=20
size=3D4>T</FONT>om,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><FONT=20
size=3D4></FONT></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2><FONT=20
size=3D4>Y</FONT>ou seem to be on the right track for wanting to do =
things=20
correctly, just remember that research is your best tools, advice from =
many will=20
be "iffy" at best and many on this list will tell you that. =
Good=20
research will 95% of the time give you a correct answer, then let these =
folks=20
know what you have found. They give you their input and you'll have to =
weed it=20
out from there.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><FONT =
size=3D4>A</FONT>s=20
far as water goes you can do as many of us have and and still do, carry =
it in.=20
We have carried in gourds and water containers, canteens on foot and =
horseback,=20
or 5 gal.oak kegs in canoe and other types of water craft.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><FONT =
size=3D4>O</FONT>n an=20
extended canoe trip of 1260 river miles, with no support for the 5 =
members we=20
carried three 5 gal. oak kegs and several canteens a piece, when nearing =
a town=20
the smaller canoe would look for a park or home near the river. Once =
found we=20
would bargain and sometimes beg with the natives for refills. Usually =
most=20
people are just excited to see and ask questions, the refill were never =
a=20
problem.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><FONT=20
size=3D4>G</FONT>ranted one needs to use common sense with the condition =
of our=20
waterways today, but for an example we washed ourselves, our clothes and =
our=20
cooking items in the river water whether it was the Platte, Missouri or =
the=20
Mississippi, (we would heat the cooking items over the fire in hopes of =
killing=20
anything harmful) I guess we were lucky in what is read =
now.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><FONT =
size=3D4>N</FONT>one=20
of the members got sick, no poops - if anything we had more of a problem =
in=20
having one with period correct foods for 28 days. Damn the wild rice, =
buffalo=20
and foraged edibles, we were use to greasy Big Mac's and the like, good =
food=20
just stuck with us and all the paddling at hand (on the water at day =
break and=20
getting off at dust, making an average of 35-40 river miles a day, left =
little=20
time for anything but paddling).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>Just =
remember to do your=20
research, but you common sense so you don't get in trouble, health wise, =
law=20
wise, or anyother wise.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><FONT =
size=3D4>G</FONT>ood=20
Luck</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DMistral size=3D4>Buck =
Conner</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>dba/ Clark =
& Sons=20
Mercantile</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/">http://www.teleport.com/=
~walking/clark/</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Tom =
Roberts=20
<<A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>><BR>To: =
<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
<<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>><BR>Date:=20
Saturday, January 02, 1999 8:25 PM<BR>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: guernsey=20
frocks<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>>I'm following this particular thread =
keenly since=20
this touches on one of<BR>>the key questions in my mind, for anyone =
who is=20
serious about accuracy.<BR>>The question is; For the purist, does the =
article=20
of interest (be it a<BR>>shirt, tool, or whatever) require verifiable =
primary=20
documentation as<BR>>being actually used by a particular person, at a =

particular place and<BR>>time? Or is it sufficient to pass the =
following=20
tests:<BR>>    1) Must be of a material and =
construction that=20
is time appropriate,<BR>>i.e., made by hand=20
using<BR>>        a natural =
resource that=20
was available and known to have been<BR>>used for that=20
purpose<BR>>    2) Must have been available at a =
logical=20
supply point, i.e., known<BR>>to be for sale or trade=20
at<BR>>        a place where the =
persona=20
of interest would have traded.<BR>>    3) Must be an =
article=20
that the persona of interest would have valued<BR>>highly, i.e.,=20
something<BR>>        necessary =
for=20
sustenance, travel, trapping, etc., and would have<BR>>logically=20
been<BR>>        purchased using =
his very=20
limited resources.<BR>><BR>>I think the honest application of =
these=20
criteria will filter out just<BR>>about everything that is not=20
appropriate.  Another thought, which may or<BR>>may not be =
suitable, is=20
that every non-native<BR>>in the Rocky mountains in 1820 came from =
somewhere=20
else and may very<BR>>well have brought the article of interest with =
him,=20
again, assuming it<BR>>to be something of need (see number 3=20
above).<BR>><BR>>The second part of my dilemna has to do with =
water. =20
In 1820, there was<BR>>little reason to fear disease from natural =
water=20
supplies. Sadly, this<BR>>is no longer true today.  My =
understanding is=20
that there are few (if<BR>>any) places left today where one can drink =
without=20
well-founded fear. On<BR>>modern outings, I am well served with a =
simple=20
mechanical/chemical<BR>>device to restore the integrity of my =
drinking=20
water.   On primitive<BR>>outings so far, there have been =
ample=20
supplies of good water made<BR>>available.   For a more =
lengthy=20
trek, say several days or more by foot,<BR>>how does one deal with =
this issue=20
in a healthy way?  Just sterilize it<BR>>all with 100=20
proof?<BR>><BR>>(no flaming arrows, please, I'm only here to=20
learn)<BR>><BR>>Tom<BR>><BR>>Allen Chronister=20
wrote:<BR>><BR>>> I'm not sure what the continued mystery is=20
about<BR>>> documentation for gurnsey frocks in the=20
"mountain<BR>>> man" period in the=20
west..................<BR>><BR>></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 19:50:52 -0600
From: John Dearing <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: shoe pack documentation

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>
>
> >I don't remember who posed the question about historical documentation about
> >using shoe-packs in the last couple of days, but I ran across a mention in a
> >book I just started reading. The book is "Westward into Kentucky, the
> >Narrative of Daniel Trabue"

There are two, or possibly three sources of documentation for the shoepack
that I can think of  off hand. The first is from an excavation at Ft. Ligoner, the
second is Peter Kalms Travels into North America , and if I remember correctly,
another example was excavated in or near Michilimacinac, or Detroit.  I seem to
remember another reference to the shoepack from another contemporary journal,
but I can't remember what it was.            J.D.

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<br>
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<p>>I don't remember who posed the question about historical documentation
about
<br>>using shoe-packs in the last couple of days, but I ran across a mention
in a
<br>>book I just started reading. The book is "Westward into Kentucky,
the
<br>>Narrative of Daniel Trabue"</blockquote>
There are two, or possibly three sources of documentation for the shoepack
<br>that I can think of  off hand. The first is from an excavation
at Ft. Ligoner, the
<br>second is Peter Kalms <u>Travels into North America</u> , and if I
remember correctly,
<br>another example was excavated in or near Michilimacinac, or Detroit.
I seem to
<br>remember another reference to the shoepack from another contemporary
journal,
<br>but I can't remember what it was.
J.D.</html>

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 21:31:37 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Documentation Question

To Jerry Z, Hardtack, Don and the rest - Thanks for your notes. And thanks for
keeping the AMM pure as driven snow, and providing us with CORRECT information
and how-tos when its needed.  Many of us compromise for the sake of comfort,
medical necessity, family concerns, relaxation, etc, but even those of us who
do the 'porky-do's' for the most part have a great concern for keeping
appearances correct, and not offending anyone else in the process.  (and yes,
I have eaten pork with some AMM guys at those doin's ). For the pilgrims
reading... don't let these guys scare you.  You are welcome at a public
rendezvous as long as your heart and mind and attitude are in the right place.
There are officials at every event to help keep the 'theme' on track and
prevent gross violations, but don't be afraid to come out and learn, and
remember that the guys who do it RIGHT, even though not perfect at times, are
the AMM brothers.   Their knowledge on everything from survival to weapons to
foods cannot be found in any one book, and sitting around a campfire with
these guys is one of the most wonderful rendezvous experiences.

Here's to shinin' times for all..........        Barney P. Fife

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 21:35:00 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: water purification

Anybody have info on correct ways to clean up water?  although ceramic
filters/pumps are acceptable at ANY event, aren't there ways you can still get
clean water with traditional methods?  I just read a note from a buddy who
wrings it through a piece of deer skin and boils it, and there must be are
others as well  YHS,  Barney Fife.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 20:36:57 -0800
From: Chris Sega <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: water purification

[e-mail] wrote:

> Anybody have info on correct ways to clean up water?

  One method one could use is a sand/charcoal filter.  In a pot or some other
vessel with small holes at the bottom you place a fine cloth, a layer of clean
fine sand, activated charcoal, sand, and so on.  You can then pour in pond water
etc and the majority of the solids and bad flavor will be gone.  Then you must
boil it. Or if you are from Texas you can just drink from a muddy hoofprint.

Your most onry and disobedient hivernant.
Sega

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 21:37:12 +0000
From: [e-mail] (RANDAL J BUBLITZ)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: water purification

'Barney', <s>    Boiling will kill anything alive in the water, but it
won't do much for chemical contaminants.  A good ceramic filter will
provide safe water.  The filters are light, and easily concealed.
Boiling takes a long time.  I spent 3 days out with a friend.  We spent
most of our time boiling water, and keeping the fire going.  The worst
part is, I still got sick.  The doc said all it takes is a drop of bad
water to make you sick.  Hardtack

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 00:06:12 -0600
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: water purification

Correction:  We Texans don't drink from muddy hoofprints....we catch =
large bass from muddy hoofprints.  We drink from jugs filled with good =
likker from foreign countries, like Mexico, Tennessee or Kentucky.
Seriously, my brother holds a license that qualifies him to operate a =
water treatment facility for a small city and he tells me that boiling =
will kill the cooties if continued long enough.  He also says that =
virtually all dangereous cooties will be removed by a ONE micron filter, =
although most on the market are three micron and will leave a few.  And, =
as already noted, filters and boiling do nothing to remove chemicals and =
heavy metals which are abundant in dangerous concentration in many =
waterways everywhere.  Giraradia is found in virtually every body of =
water in the country and is something to avoid.  Period.  Whenever =
possible I haul in ALL my drinking water.
For What It's Worth
Lanney Ratcliff
- -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Sega <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Sunday, January 03, 1999 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: water purification


>
>
>[e-mail] wrote:
>
>> Anybody have info on correct ways to clean up water?
>
>  One method one could use is a sand/charcoal filter.  In a pot or some =
other
>vessel with small holes at the bottom you place a fine cloth, a layer =
of clean
>fine sand, activated charcoal, sand, and so on.  You can then pour in =
pond water
>etc and the majority of the solids and bad flavor will be gone.  Then =
you must
>boil it. Or if you are from Texas you can just drink from a muddy =
hoofprint.
>
>Your most onry and disobedient hivernant.
>Sega
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 22:06:53 -0800
From: "Munroe Crutchley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Documentation Question

In a message dated  Sunday, January 03, 1999 6:31 PM, Barney P. Fife wrote:

> You are welcome at a public
> rendezvous as long as your heart and mind and attitude are in the right
place.

I would like to attend a rendezvous just to see what it is like. I don't
have ANY period correct gear except a rifle that is a faithful copy of a
late S. Hawken. Are folks like me welcome to come and look around? What are
the guidelines?

Munroe Crutchley
Grants Pass, OR

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 00:20:24 -0600
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Documentation Question

Munroe
Most rendezvous have a designated day when the public is welcome. =
Contact the booshway of the rendezvous or a club official and ask if  =
such a policy exists for a given rendezvous.  Many clubs will make an =
effort to lend you enough clothes to make you period enough for their =
doin's, or they will help you make what is necessary.  That way you can =
attend the rendezvous at a time that is more convenient to you.
good luck
Lanney Ratcliff
- -----Original Message-----
From: Munroe Crutchley <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 12:07 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Documentation Question


>In a message dated  Sunday, January 03, 1999 6:31 PM, Barney P. Fife =
wrote:
>
>> You are welcome at a public
>> rendezvous as long as your heart and mind and attitude are in the =
right
>place.
>
>I would like to attend a rendezvous just to see what it is like. I =
don't
>have ANY period correct gear except a rifle that is a faithful copy of =
a
>late S. Hawken. Are folks like me welcome to come and look around? What =
are
>the guidelines?
>
>Munroe Crutchley
>Grants Pass, OR
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 00:27:40 -0600
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Documentation Question

Munroe
Click on this page for rendezvous in your part of the world.
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186/index.htm
Lanney
- -----Original Message-----
From: Munroe Crutchley <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 12:07 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Documentation Question


>In a message dated  Sunday, January 03, 1999 6:31 PM, Barney P. Fife =
wrote:
>
>> You are welcome at a public
>> rendezvous as long as your heart and mind and attitude are in the =
right
>place.
>
>I would like to attend a rendezvous just to see what it is like. I =
don't
>have ANY period correct gear except a rifle that is a faithful copy of =
a
>late S. Hawken. Are folks like me welcome to come and look around? What =
are
>the guidelines?
>
>Munroe Crutchley
>Grants Pass, OR
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 02:19:39 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: water purification

Hello!
 JR's wife Eileen here-Hope this helps, Try this:
A Simple Solar Water Pasteurizer
Drinking water can be easily pasteurized using solar energy and a few simple
materials.  When water or milk is pasteurized the common disease-causing
organisms are killed.
What you will need:
A container such as a basket or wooden box.
    Container materials must have basic heat retaining qualities.
        Bricks and metal containers do not work well unless they are insulated.
        In foil to line the inside of the container.  While it is possible to
pasteurize a small         amount of water without tin foil, its use appreciably
improves performance.
A good piece of black cast iron (dark colored solar absorber plate) to conduct
the heat to the water containers.
A solar "window"made of glass over the top of the container.
A reflector to bounce in additional sunlight. (ever seen the chicken roasters
form the rev war period)?
Dark or clear containers to hold water or food (since you can cook in this
oven as well).

To pasteurize water, heat it in this "solar box" to at least 65 degrees C (150
F) and keep the water at that temperature or above for at least 30 minutes.
If no thermometer is available, heat until bubbles are rising from the bottom
steadily.
Natural waxes, such as beeswax, can be used to indicate pasteurization
temperature.  Solar conditions, weather conditions, latitude and box
efficiency are all variables that affect the ability of solar boxes to
pasteurize water.  As a general guideline, 1 gallon of water can be
pasteurized in about 3 hours on a day with strong sunlight and the sun high in
the sky.  The glass-covered opening should be at least 18" x 24" and have a
depth just taller than the water containers inside.  Larger boxes can
pasteurize more water, smaller less.
Pasteurization kills germs and disease-carrying organisms in drinking water
including bacteria, rotaviruses, enteroviruses, commonly transmitted in
contaminated water.  Pasteurized water should not be used for medical
procedures.
Pasteurization does not remove chemical contamination such as pesticides or
industrial wastes.
Pasteurization of Naturally Contaminated Water with Solar Energy (Applied and
Environmental Microbiology v. 47 no 2, 1984)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 10:11:21 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Water and going public

In a message dated 99-01-03 02:34:43 EST, RANDAL J BUBLITZ wrote:

<< Unfortunetly, all water should be considered with suspicion.  The authentic
experience should not include sickness due to contaminated water. >>

This is all to true.  At many reinactments and rendezvous the water is
provided and "certified" town water safe.  I have seen far to many water tanks
with dead animal and vegitation in the water.  Not because the organizers did
not clean them out prior to the gathering but it is amazing what crawls in if
the lid is not tightened down.  And if the top has a vent and the temperature
is high the clorine used to keep city water safe evaporates fast.  So in a not
so authentic but safe way when my family is going to an event we always carry
in (covered of course) enough safe water for drinking.  Water for cooking and
washing can be boilied, but drinking is another thing.  I've seen to many
peoples good times spent in the out house due to bad water.

Water purification tablets are also a good thing to put in your kit.  They may
not make the water taste good but if you are thristy they will keep you from
getting sick.  They are available from almost any camping/sporting store and
in that section of many large stores like Wally World.

<<Gail, wrote........ but sure would encourage you
guys and gals to consider "go'en public" with all your knowledge.
Some of us do.>>

My wife does, she teaches 18th century cooking at the Genesee Country Museum
in Mumford NY.  Another of her training/outreach projects is the one room
school house.  Many of the towns around here have original one room school
houses that the local middle and elementary teachers will bring their classes
to for a authentic day in school in the late 1700's to early 1800's.

Our black powder club does several "Educational" camps a year (affectionately
know as Show and Tells) at which we set up camp at museum or town festival or
National Hunting and Fishing Days and demonstrate 18th century activites from
sewing (clothes and pouches) to making powder horns, to cooking, etc.  So if
you look around the various historical sites and ask around you will probably
find one or more of us working or volunteering, ready and willing to discuss
the history of the period.

<<Pendleton #1572 wrote:  The level of authinticity required and expected at a
A.M.M function is and
should be higher than that  expected at a club vous or a dog and pony show.>>

From what I know of A.M.M. I would expect this.  My family and I go to strict
Fort based F&I events and Rev War events and Rendezvouse.  Many of the
Rendezvouse are a lot more forgiving and try to accomodate people who are new
to the activity under the general idea that as you learn you will grow and
your persona and camp will become as accurate as you can.  Some of the
Rendezvouse try to be period accurate right from the start, enforcing things
like no cigarette lighters (no cigarettes, pipes only).  And there is talk at
Ft. Naigara that this year to participate in the F&I event NO FACIAL HAIR,
there goes my mustache.

My family go to rendezvouse for the fun and the friendships and well we
maintain a period correct (not counting the hidden coolers and water jugs)
camp I do not get upset when I see someone else that has not had the time or
the money to get to that point yet.  But as we became more and more accurate
we started to seek out the strickter events for the same reasons I am sure
many members of A.M.M. joined that organization.  The more we learn about the
history and the equipment the closer we come to the people we are portarying.
And if you have ever spent the night in a Fort with a hundred reinactors,
singing songs only from the time period (no country, blues, or rock) with fire
light, candles and stars you can for a minute or an hour step back in time.
Many people do not enjoy the history as much as others and may never want to
go all the way to the A.M.M. or the B.A.R. and that is alright.  Many can
enjoy the pleasure of both styles, we sure do, and many can only feel right
doing it as authentically as possible all the time and thats great.

But now to Pendleton #1572 and the 'Can of Worms'  I have to say that the one
place I really beleave we owe it to ourselves and everyone else to be correct
is at the "dog and pony shows".  It is a shame when people who claim to be
recreating history do not take the time and effort to be accurate in
portraying that time period to the public.  Granted you can not always do
"First Person" interpretation of a character at this type of event.  But even
if you step out of the time period into the 20th Century to assist the public
learn we have to be as accurate as possible in what we portray and pass on.
If you do not have an answer for an individual question don't B.S. say so and
point them in the right direction for research.  I've stepped into the 20th
century from time to time to say I would E.Mail them a source for information
and we have to do that some time to assist in the learning process.  The
better we all are at maintaining our historical accuracy the better will be
the people we camp with.  We all learn from each other and by example.

Hope no one thinks I mean to offend as I don't as I really enjoy the diversity
of wonderful opinions on this list.

Your Humble Servant

C.T. Oakes

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:29:06 -0700
From: "Matt Richards" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: drinking the wild water

I just wanted to share a few thoughts on drinking wild water without
purifiers, boiling or the like, but straight from the stream......

I've been drinking creek water almost exclusively for the past 11 years,
whether at home or traveling in the woods. I'm definitely concious of what
and where I'm drinking but if it seems like a reasonably clean mtn stream, I
drink up.....and I've never had any problems except an occasional runny
crap. My understanding is that some people are far more or less susceptible
to giardia and such...and I think I'm on the less side.

I know a lot of folks like me who continue to drink wild water despite all
the warnings...and don't have any problems. Most of us seem to agree that
being careful not to drink chlorinated water is crucial. Chlorinated water
kills your beneficial bacteria that help you defend against giardia and
other contaminants.

I always try to drink upstream from beaver (though am sometimes surprised to
find them above), and don't worry much about free range cattle (even though
they do spread giardia), though given the choice I choose a spring if I'm in
cattle country. Always go for the smallest creek or spring around, and don't
drink from rivers.

If you are worried about it, I'd encourage you to continue using filters or
hauling in water, giardia really sucks as far as I can tell. If you do go
for it, ease your way in. Drink creek water from a known to be good creek
for a while to help build up your beneficial bacteria.....and work your way
in from there.

There ain't too much more satisfying then stickin your face in a creek and
taking a long  draught.....

Matt Richards
www.braintan.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:35:15 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parfleche primary sources

Don't have a primary source, but an excellent reference is "The american
Indian Parfleche" by Gaylord Torrence, University of Washington Press in
association with the Des Moines Art Center, first published in 1994, ISBN
0-295-97333-1.  It's a beautiful book showing origin andhistory, materials,
regional styles with many full color photos of designs, construction etc.
Pat Surrena AMM 1449

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:45:55 -0700
From: "Matt Richards" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parfleche primary sources

>Don't have a primary source, but an excellent reference is "The american
>Indian Parfleche" by Gaylord Torrence

I have read that one a few times as well as many other modern sources on the
subject, but I'm really curious about how it was really done, based on
documentable methods.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:08:25 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Documentation Question

I am new to the rendezvous also but I have found that the ones I have
attended are pretty loose with the period correct gear.  As long as you look
the part it seems to be okay.  My gear is as follows:

Lyman plains rifle
knee high mocs or the homemade pair both have soft soles
an old pair of brown cotton kaki type pants that get tucked in
a muslin shirt I made, it is really not hard to make these
I have made the 3" belt that goes around the waist, the powderhorn, and  the
the possibles bag.
All knives and hawks are period correct
The hat is an old ragged low cut cowboy hat that has raccoon around it with
a horse hair tail.

My biggest concern is that if I do go to a rendezvous out of state I may not
be allowed to compete due to the fact that I make all my gear and it is kind
of my own design not a copy from others.

Any suggestions would be appreciated


Frank V. Rago






At 10:06 PM 1/3/99 -0800, you wrote:
>In a message dated  Sunday, January 03, 1999 6:31 PM, Barney P. Fife wrote:
>
>> You are welcome at a public
>> rendezvous as long as your heart and mind and attitude are in the right
>place.
>
>I would like to attend a rendezvous just to see what it is like. I don't
>have ANY period correct gear except a rifle that is a faithful copy of a
>late S. Hawken. Are folks like me welcome to come and look around? What are
>the guidelines?
>
>Munroe Crutchley
>Grants Pass, OR
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 13:24:50 -0800
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Documentation Question

Munroe Crutchley wrote:

> I would like to attend a rendezvous just to see what it is like. I don't
> have ANY period correct gear except a rifle that is a faithful copy of a
> late S. Hawken. Are folks like me welcome to come and look around? What are
> the guidelines?

Munroe,

The first one in your area that I can think of is put on by the Powell Valley
Long Rifles in May. I'm not sure of the date. If you remind me or I remember
I'll let you know as soon as I do. They put on a weekend shoot/rendezvous that
is open to any one. They do give an extra point for being "dressed up" but you
can make that point up with good shooting. I will be there at the one this
spring and would be more than happy to show you around. I will of course give
you better directions later but it is held on the east side of the Cascades
just south of Tygh Valley north of hwy. 216 between Maupin and 216's
intersection with hwy. 26. There will be trail walks and maybe a mountain man
combat course. Most any traditional style muzzle loader with open iron sights
is used and pistol too.

You will surely see about every range of dress and camp there is in this sport.
I will be on the far side of camp as you come in and most will know how I am.
Look forward to seeing you there. I remain......

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 15:20:32 +0100
From: Allen Chronister <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: giardia

I,too, often drink out of streams although I
usually try to find something just gushing out of
or down the hillside if possible.  I have gone
through periods of carrying a water filter, and
that is really probably the best (safest) thing to
do.
Almost 20 year ago I had giardia before it got to
be a trendy disease.  In fact, I had never heard
of it when finally diagnosed, after several months
of more or less painful symptoms.  I'll say this
for it:  it is a great way to loose weight ( I was
dropping 5-7 lbs a week at the end) and it really
cuts down on your necessary rations--soda crackers
and water is about all you can keep in/down.
So, unless you live somewhere that allows you to
encounter fairly fresh (ie just up from the
ground) water, maybe a filter is good.
Allen Chronister

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:08:13 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: giardia

If you really want to do some in depth reading on giardia and cryptosporidium
including some great information on the best types of filters, follow this
link.

Todd Glover


 <A HREF="http://www.gorp.com/gorp/health/wtrflfaq.htm">GORP - Water Filters &
Giardia</A>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 15:15:09 -0800
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Going Public

Gail,

Been holding back to see if anyone was gona tell you about the same way I do
it and since that hasn't happened, here's my method.

For one, I too, quit using char cloth some time back and started making char
out of rotten birch wood. I think most any rotten (to the point it will fall
apart in you hand) hard wood will work as char.

My water/weather proof stash is in a flat metal can. Rather than seal the
can's edges up and have to break the seal each time I need to get into it to
strike up a fire, the can is wrapped in a piece of linen cloth that has been
saturated with bee's wax. The waxed cloth is quit waterproof and will reform
around the can readily in it's original shape. The bee's wax is used because
it is naturally sticky and seals to itself. It also will be somewhat flexible
even in extremely cold weather where paraffin wax would be brittle. So when
the folds of the cloth are rearranged around the can (kinda like you would
wrap a present or piece of meat with paper) the folds stick together and
return to being quit water proof. Holding the can next to your body ill
soften the wax quit readily too. A strip of the cloth can be used as an
emergency source of "fat wood" as it will catch a flame from the tinder nest
quit easily and burn in wet weather or after having been totally submerged
where other materials would be wet.

I will make this disclaimer now that I do not have any reason to believe this
is authentic. The materials are correct for the period and since being able
to make fire in an emergency situation is life saving, I find it to be a good
way to go. Remember that any char material will loose its ability to catch a
spark if it gets too high a moisture content so it pays to take it out and
dry it thoroughly periodically and surely before going out on a trek. I carry
this waxed cloth rapped can in a leather pouch on my person at all times as
it is my ticket to tomorrow. I remain........

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #210
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