ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/hist_text/archive/v01.n206

Internet Message Format | 1998-12-28 | 34KB

From: [e-mail] (hist_text-digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #206
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


hist_text-digest      Tuesday, December 29 1998      Volume 01 : Number 206




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 16:58:29 -0600
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Burning out canoes

I never had the urge to build a dugout canoe but I know a few people who =
did and they all have the same comment....those suckers weigh many, many =
times more than they expected them to.  Even relatively small dugouts =
are barely moveable out of the water and ride very low in the water.  =
Maybe they didn't make them thinwalled enough and left them heavier than =
they should be.  Anybody have any experience with attempting to make a =
dugout canoe light enough to be moved with reasonable ease and to allow =
adequate freeboard when underway?=20
My Old Town is dark green plastic and has an 800 lb rated carrying =
capacity.....yeah I know, barely enough for me---haw, haw, haw...and =
draws only a few inches.  That makes me appreciate even more the men who =
paddled UP the Missouri in dugouts.  Comments?  WAG's?
SWAG's?
Lanney Ratcliff
ps:  W(ild) A(ss) G(uesses)  or S(cientific) etc=20
- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Saturday, December 26, 1998 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Burning out canoes


>I have been back here reading all these posts and yesterday I mentioned =
to
>my wife "sweetie, ya know what would be neat, making a dug out canoe"  =
to my
>suprise she agreed.  Now all I need to do is find a tree, she expects =
one by
>the spring.  Me and my big mouth.
>
>Happy Holidays
>
>
>Frank V. Rago
>
>
>
>At 06:26 PM 12/26/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>Don,
>>
>>Although I don't know the answer (I'm more concerned with horses), I =
would
>>recommend getting a copy of L & Cs Journals.  The version that would
>>probably have this info would be the one edited by Elliot Coues.  It =
is in 3
>>volumes from Dover press and about $22 - $25 in paperback (ISBN
>>0-486-21268-8.)  I haven't read it in a long time, but remember it =
somewhere.
>>
>>Best Regards,=20
>>
>>Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
>>_______________________________________________________________________=
____
>_____
>>
>>At 05:49 PM 12/23/98 EST, you wrote:
>>>Thanks to you all for the responses - I got on this list because of =
similar
>>>interests.
>>>Thanks Hardtack ( what is a Long Spanish Pause ? ), Randy, Pat, =
Lanney and
>>>Capt. Lahti.
>>>Question: when Lewis and Clark spent five days at canoe camp near =
Orofino,
>>>Idaho, the Indians there showed the Corps how to burn out the canoes =
as this
>>>was a faster process then hacking away at them.  I know the burning =
process
>>>involved water to cool the canoe/tree but how was=20
>>>all this done and what kind of trees were the best to use?
>>>Does anyone have an answer?
>>>Thanks
>>>Foot in his mouth Don
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 17:59:35 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: making canoes

The other day several of you talked about L & C having thermometers, etc.
All were correct but a comment was made that said L & C went over Lost
Trail Pass.  They missed LTP as they were about a mile and a half NE of
the pass.
Stay warm and dry,
DON

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 18:12:15 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Burning out canoes

Saw a documentary on discovery channel not long ago... amazon basin indians
making burned out canoes; they all rode VERY low in the water, and they used
this to their advantage.  when a surface obstacle in the river was encountered
(branches, tree tops, logs, etc) they would portage all their personal goods
and sink the canoe to go UNDER the obstacle, as the canoes were far to heavy
to carry any distance.  YHS BP Fife
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL. AND TO DEAN--- THANKS AGAIN FOR SUCH AN INCREDIBLE JOB.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:39:16 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Taking the plunge

What state are you from?  Maybe some of the good folks here can point you to
rendezvous in your area.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:31:53 +0000
From: Laura Rugel Glise <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: unsubscribe

unsubscribe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:07:39 -0500
From: "Mill, Kirk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: capotes

Well, it looks like my next project is a capote. I found some surplus Swiss
army blankets (brown with red stripe) that look okay for the price (24.00)
aand now I am looking for a good pattern. Does anyone have an opinion on the
patterns out there? NW Traders, Eagle View etc. I have book by D. Montgomery
with a pattern, has anyone tried it? I am not nearly as squeamish about
cutting up some blankets as I was about cutting up hides, so I might just
give this Montgomery pattern a rip.TIA.
Kirk Mill
P.S. for X-mas I made my 5 year old daughter a set of buckskins for her Ken
doll. Ken aint no sissy anymore.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:17:51 -0700
From: "Ron" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: capotes

LOL Kirk,

Just follow the instructions in Book of Buckskinning #2 (I think). It is
really easy, after you finish it you,ll wonder why you didn't try it
before.

YMOS,
Lonewolf

- ----------
> From: Mill, Kirk <[e-mail]>
> To: 'ML MAILING LIST' <[e-mail]>
> Cc: 'history mailing list' <[e-mail]>
> Subject: MtMan-List: capotes
> Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 1:07 PM
>
> Well, it looks like my next project is a capote. I found some surplus
Swiss
> army blankets (brown with red stripe) that look okay for the price
(24.00)
> aand now I am looking for a good pattern. Does anyone have an opinion on
the
> patterns out there? NW Traders, Eagle View etc. I have book by D.
Montgomery
> with a pattern, has anyone tried it? I am not nearly as squeamish about
> cutting up some blankets as I was about cutting up hides, so I might just
> give this Montgomery pattern a rip.TIA.
> Kirk Mill
> P.S. for X-mas I made my 5 year old daughter a set of buckskins for her
Ken
> doll. Ken aint no sissy anymore.
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:29:01 -0500
From: "Mill, Kirk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: capotes

> Just follow the instructions in Book of Buckskinning #2 (I think). It is
> really easy, after you finish it you,ll wonder why you didn't try it
> before.
>
> YMOS,
> Lonewolf
>
    [Mill, Kirk]  Unfortunately they don't have that series at my
library and I'm too cheap to buy it.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:36:12 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: unsubscribe

Unsubscribe MWMEDGAR@AOL:.COM

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 14:39:22 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: capotes

Kirk'
  I used Missouri River Patterns for my capote ( grey blanket w/red stripe).  It
was very easy to follow and made a good looking garment.  Crazy Crow Trading
Post has the patterns in stock.  I added a double thickmess to the back of mine
to block wind.
Bill "Chases Hawks" Vannoy
Mill, Kirk wrote:

> Well, it looks like my next project is a capote. I found some surplus Swiss
> army blankets (brown with red stripe) that look okay for the price (24.00)
> aand now I am looking for a good pattern. Does anyone have an opinion on the
> patterns out there? NW Traders, Eagle View etc. I have book by D. Montgomery
> with a pattern, has anyone tried it? I am not nearly as squeamish about
> cutting up some blankets as I was about cutting up hides, so I might just
> give this Montgomery pattern a rip.TIA.
> Kirk Mill
> P.S. for X-mas I made my 5 year old daughter a set of buckskins for her Ken
> doll. Ken aint no sissy anymore.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:34:11 +0000
From: [e-mail] (RANDAL J BUBLITZ)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: capotes

Kirk, I have used Eagle View patterns, and Northwest Traders pattern.
The Eagle View was used to make Children's Capotes.  The NWT was used for
my own.  The NWT shows many different styles and sizes.  It's been along
time since I've looked at the EV pattern, but it allowed me, a novice,to
sew up 2 capotes.  I made mine as canoe capote.  It is shorter, hangs to
just under butt.  I made a double cape, and left off the hood.  I made
mine from a surplus blanket first.  After I used it, and was satisfied
with the style, I made another out of a Whittney Horse Rug.  One thing I
did was sew the capote with the seams to the inside, thus my less than
fancy stitching is hidden.  Cut that blanket, and have fun with it.....
Hardtack

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:54:14 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: capotes

In a message dated 98-12-28 16:32:45 EST, you write:

<< > Just follow the instructions in Book of Buckskinning #2 (I think).
 > Lonewolf
 >
<     [Mill, Kirk]  Unfortunately they don't have that series at my library and
I'm too       <  cheap to buy it.
  >>

BOB #2 is correct.  "too cheap to buy it"???  By the time you buy all the
patterns in BOB #2, you'd be out considerably more than the $12.95 for the
book!  While a few of the articles in the BOB series should be taken with a
grain of salt, the whole series has good references & worth the expense.  They
cover a lot of subjects, & their "how to" articles are realy good.  Most of us
didn't get the whole series at one time -- that'd hurt a bit.  I got 'em as I
saw a need -- not necessarily in order -- think #2 was the first one I got
because of the patterns.

NM

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 22:05:25 -0600 (CST)
From: "S. Gilbert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Taking the plunge

On Mon, 28 Dec 1998 [e-mail] wrote:

> What state are you from?  Maybe some of the good folks here can point you to
> rendezvous in your area.

I live in Iowa, Iowa City, to be exact.  So far we have attended, as day
visitors, Ushers Ferry 'Voo in Cedar Rapids  and Fort Atkison 'Voo in
north central Iowa.  We have drivn to Mankato, Minn and Omaha, Ne  for
trade fairs to find gear.  We have a suscription to Powder Horn News and
are looking and planning ahead.  Any help or advice is always welcome.

Sue Gilbert
(Old Hands)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:10:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Burning out canoes

On Sun, 27 Dec 1998, Lanney Ratcliff wrote:
> heavier than they should be.  Anybody have any experience with
> attempting to make a dugout canoe light enough to be moved with
> reasonable ease and to allow adequate freeboard when underway?

aye lanny

a 14 footer made with thin walls etc.  was made all neat and straight,
now, after 2 yrs, the gunnels look like a broken backed snake, leaks like
a congressman and she rides like green broke mustang.

the original that is on display at the museum of the Nez Perce has walls
about 2" thick and about 8 " of bottom, its about 30' long

even the best dugouts we've made are heavy, cumbersome and take an act of
congress to get upriver.

I am no expert, merely a fellow who has been there once or twice

Regards

Lee Newbill
Viola, Idaho
email at [e-mail]
Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 21:33:40 -0700
From: "Barry Conner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Correct water vessel

What Lee has stated seems to be the norm for dugouts from several dozen
replies I have received off_list, heavy, hard to handle, and crack in time,
back to the drawing board.

What about another type of skiff that's correct for the Rocky Mountains Fur
Trade, bull boats are hard to control, birch bark are really an eastern
vessel (no birch in our area big enough to be usable). Strip sided boats or
a Canadian French water craft seems lighter, have seen a few articles on
them. Most of the mid-west bateau's seen in museums or the reproduction ones
seen on the Missouri from Omaha to Ft. deChartre seem heavy.

What's your idea for a light, correct water vessel that fits in the
1800-1840 time period, used in the Rocky Mountain Fur trade?

Buck
________

- -----Original Message-----
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Burning out canoes


>
>On Sun, 27 Dec 1998, Lanney Ratcliff wrote:
>> heavier than they should be.  Anybody have any experience with
>> attempting to make a dugout canoe light enough to be moved with
>> reasonable ease and to allow adequate freeboard when underway?
>
>aye lanny
>
>a 14 footer made with thin walls etc.  was made all neat and straight,
>now, after 2 yrs, the gunnels look like a broken backed snake, leaks like
>a congressman and she rides like green broke mustang.
>
>the original that is on display at the museum of the Nez Perce has walls
>about 2" thick and about 8 " of bottom, its about 30' long
>
>even the best dugouts we've made are heavy, cumbersome and take an act of
>congress to get upriver.
>
>I am no expert, merely a fellow who has been there once or twice
>
>Regards
>
>Lee Newbill
>Viola, Idaho
>email at [e-mail]
>Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage
>http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 21:58:54 +0000
From: [e-mail] (RANDAL J BUBLITZ)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Correct water vessel

Buck, I have some interest in this subject.  The Pacific coast had its
Stripper canoes.  I wonder how early, and further west the canvas canoe
was???  Anyone have some interesting info.?  I have seen the west coast
dugouts In the Ft. Clatsop area.  These were beautiful boats.  Carved
thin, and formed, these boats were elegant.  I have done canoe treks.  I
have always used a modern canoe.  I would be interested in hearing from
other canoeists on how to 'primitive' canoe, with some predictability ( I
have to get back to work next week...?).   Hardtack

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 23:34:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Correct water vessel

On Mon, 28 Dec 1998, Barry Conner wrote:
> What about another type of skiff that's correct for the Rocky Mountains Fur
> Trade, bull boats are hard to control, birch bark are really an eastern
> vessel (no birch in our area big enough to be usable). Strip sided boats or
> a Canadian French water craft seems lighter, have seen a few articles on
> them. Most of the mid-west bateau's seen in museums or the reproduction ones
> seen on the Missouri from Omaha to Ft. deChartre seem heavy.
>
> What's your idea for a light, correct water vessel that fits in the
> 1800-1840 time period, used in the Rocky Mountain Fur trade?

I seem to remember an article by Angela Gotfred on batuex used west of
the continental divide.  These boats were simple, smallish and relatively
light, although somewhat leaky as the boards were lashed (to save
precious nails for other things) together (stitched?) to
the wooden supports (thwarts?) and the gaps were caulked with pine tar
etc.  If faulty memory serves me further, they were used mostly on the
Columbia River waterways by British Companies.

We also had a relatively bizarre looking craft used by a local tribe
(Kutenai) that resembled a birch bark (?) kayak more than a canoe.  take
a modern kayak, stretch it's opening to about 2/3 the boat (but still
centered, and you have the concept.  I've never seen any mention of these
craft in the fur trade though, and while I have done some whitewater in
craft not designed for the afore mentioned whitewater, I would be hesitant
to take one of these craft on the mighty Snake.

I will look in my limited library at home and see if what it says is
different from what me limited brain remembers.

Regards

Lee Newbill
Viola, Idaho
email at [e-mail]
Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 05:40:56 -0600
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Burning out canoes

That is just about what I thought.  It seems that if you want a dugout =
canoe you just have to be prepared to use plenty of muscle to run the =
thing.  Thanks for the info.
Lanney
- -----Original Message-----
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Burning out canoes


>
>On Sun, 27 Dec 1998, Lanney Ratcliff wrote:
>> heavier than they should be.  Anybody have any experience with
>> attempting to make a dugout canoe light enough to be moved with
>> reasonable ease and to allow adequate freeboard when underway?=20
>
>aye lanny
>
>a 14 footer made with thin walls etc.  was made all neat and straight,
>now, after 2 yrs, the gunnels look like a broken backed snake, leaks =
like
>a congressman and she rides like green broke mustang.
>
>the original that is on display at the museum of the Nez Perce has =
walls
>about 2" thick and about 8 " of bottom, its about 30' long
>
>even the best dugouts we've made are heavy, cumbersome and take an act =
of
>congress to get upriver.
>
>I am no expert, merely a fellow who has been there once or twice
>
>Regards
>
>Lee Newbill
>Viola, Idaho
>email at [e-mail]
>Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage
>http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 06:51:04 -0700
From: "Barry Conner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Correct water vessel

Lee,

Now that you mention it, I remember that article. I saved it a year or so
ago, had a hard drive crash and lost it, Angela had given me the name of a
gentlemen in Canada and had talked to him. He was putting together a set of
plans that one could work off of to reconstruct a good copy of an original
batuex used west of the continental divide.

Angela hope your reading this and can provide the gentlemen's name or have
him contact me off_line.

Thanks for the wakeup call Lee.

Buck
 _______________
- -----Original Message-----
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Tuesday, December 29, 1998 12:35 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Correct water vessel


>On Mon, 28 Dec 1998, Barry Conner wrote:
>> What about another type of skiff that's correct for the Rocky Mountains
Fur
>> Trade, bull boats are hard to control, birch bark are really an eastern
>> vessel (no birch in our area big enough to be usable). Strip sided boats
or
>> a Canadian French water craft seems lighter, have seen a few articles on
>> them. Most of the mid-west bateau's seen in museums or the reproduction
ones
>> seen on the Missouri from Omaha to Ft. deChartre seem heavy.
>>
>> What's your idea for a light, correct water vessel that fits in the
>> 1800-1840 time period, used in the Rocky Mountain Fur trade?
>
>I seem to remember an article by Angela Gotfred on batuex used west of
>the continental divide.  These boats were simple, smallish and relatively
>light, although somewhat leaky as the boards were lashed (to save
>precious nails for other things) together (stitched?) to
>the wooden supports (thwarts?) and the gaps were caulked with pine tar
>etc.  If faulty memory serves me further, they were used mostly on the
>Columbia River waterways by British Companies.
>
>We also had a relatively bizarre looking craft used by a local tribe
>(Kutenai) that resembled a birch bark (?) kayak more than a canoe.  take
>a modern kayak, stretch it's opening to about 2/3 the boat (but still
>centered, and you have the concept.  I've never seen any mention of these
>craft in the fur trade though, and while I have done some whitewater in
>craft not designed for the afore mentioned whitewater, I would be hesitant
>to take one of these craft on the mighty Snake.
>
>I will look in my limited library at home and see if what it says is
>different from what me limited brain remembers.
>
>Regards
>
>Lee Newbill
>Viola, Idaho
>email at [e-mail]
>Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage
>http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 08:07:30 -0600
From: Jerry Anderson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Correct water vessel

Lee Newbill wrote:
>
> On Mon, 28 Dec 1998, Barry Conner wrote:
> > What about another type of skiff that's correct for the Rocky Mountains Fur
> > Trade, bull boats are hard to control, birch bark are really an eastern
> > vessel (no birch in our area big enough to be usable). Strip sided boats or
> > a Canadian French water craft seems lighter, have seen a few articles on
> > them. Most of the mid-west bateau's seen in museums or the reproduction ones
> > seen on the Missouri from Omaha to Ft. deChartre seem heavy.
> >
> > What's your idea for a light, correct water vessel that fits in the
> > 1800-1840 time period, used in the Rocky Mountain Fur trade?
>

As a new blackpowder shooter and history buff, but a long-time canoe
traveler (including no small number of hours working on wood and canvas
canoes and repairing navigational errors inflicted on aluminum and
kevlar watercraft) I have some humble suggestions. These books may be
hard to find, but try inter-library loan at your public or regional library.

Adney E.T. & Chapelle H.I., 1964,  The Bark Canoes and Skin Boats of
North America.

Blandford  P., 1974,  An Illustrated History of Small Boats. A  History
of Oared, Poled and Paddled Craft.

Casson L., 1963,  Sewn Boats.

Christensen A.E., 1984,  'Sewn boats in Scandinavia.'  in: McGrail S. (ed.)

Johnstone P., 1974,  The Archaeology of Ships.

March E.J., 1970,  Inshore Craft of Britain in the Days of Sail and Oar.

McGowan A., 1981,  Tiller and Whipstaff 1400-1700.

McGowan A., 1981,  The Century before Steam.

McGrail S., 1985,  Towards a classification of water transport.

Nouhuys van, 1928,  Dug-outs.

Roberts K.G. & Shackleton P., 1983,  The Canoe.

Roberts O.T.P., 1983,  An index for flat-bottom boats.


Jerry Anderson
On the Banks of the (Frozen) Missouri River

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 09:10:30 -0700
From: "Matt Richards" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Correct water vessel

I don't know about birch bark in other areas of the Rocky's, but it was used
here in the Kootenai's (NW Montana, N. Idaho, Southern British Columbia).

The shape was somewhat different than back east (at least the Kootenai
Indian style).

David Thompson used one.

Matt Richards
www.braintan.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:19:33 -0500
From: packratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: capotes

Could someone send me the contact info for these two companies?
Thanks
packratt

RANDAL J BUBLITZ wrote:

> Kirk, I have used Eagle View patterns, and Northwest Traders pattern.
> The Eagle View was used to make Children's Capotes.  The NWT was used for
> my own.  The NWT shows many different styles and sizes.  It's been along
> time since I've looked at the EV pattern, but it allowed me, a novice,to
> sew up 2 capotes.  I made mine as canoe capote.  It is shorter, hangs to
> just under butt.  I made a double cape, and left off the hood.  I made
> mine from a surplus blanket first.  After I used it, and was satisfied
> with the style, I made another out of a Whittney Horse Rug.  One thing I
> did was sew the capote with the seams to the inside, thus my less than
> fancy stitching is hidden.  Cut that blanket, and have fun with it.....
> Hardtack
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 09:29:56 +0100
From: Allen Chronister <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: boats

When the "mountain men" made boats and described
them, they were often canoe-shaped, built on a
sapling frame like a bull boat, and covered with
hide, like a bull boat.  It seems that two (or
more) hides sewn end to end were used to get
length.  It also seems that some of these boats
were quite large and held substantial loads.
There is an AJ Miller image of one of these boats
with a whole crew of folks in it.
Having never made or used one of these boats, I
feel fully qualified to recommend them without
reservation.
Allen Chronister

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:34:20 -0600
From: "Austin, Tim" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: capotes

Do not know about Eagle View, but Northwest Traders have a web site at:
http://www.nwtrader.com/

Good luck.


> ----------
> From:     packratt[SMTP:[e-mail]]
> Sent:     Tuesday, December 29, 1998 10:19 AM
> To:     [e-mail]
> Subject:     Re: MtMan-List: capotes
>
> Could someone send me the contact info for these two companies?
> Thanks
> packratt
>
> RANDAL J BUBLITZ wrote:
>
> > Kirk, I have used Eagle View patterns, and Northwest Traders pattern.
> > The Eagle View was used to make Children's Capotes.  The NWT was used
> for
> > my own.  The NWT shows many different styles and sizes.  It's been along
> > time since I've looked at the EV pattern, but it allowed me, a novice,to
> > sew up 2 capotes.  I made mine as canoe capote.  It is shorter, hangs to
> > just under butt.  I made a double cape, and left off the hood.  I made
> > mine from a surplus blanket first.  After I used it, and was satisfied
> > with the style, I made another out of a Whittney Horse Rug.  One thing I
> > did was sew the capote with the seams to the inside, thus my less than
> > fancy stitching is hidden.  Cut that blanket, and have fun with it.....
> > Hardtack
> >
> > ___________________________________________________________________
> > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:36:21 -0500
From: paul mueller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: capotes

packratt wrote:
>
> Could someone send me the contact info for these two companies?
> Thanks
> packratt
>
> RANDAL J BUBLITZ wrote:
>
> > Kirk, I have used Eagle View patterns, and Northwest Traders pattern.
> > The Eagle View was used to make Children's Capotes.  The NWT was used for
> > my own.  The NWT shows many different styles and sizes.  It's been along
> > time since I've looked at the EV pattern, but it allowed me, a novice,to
> > sew up 2 capotes.  I made mine as canoe capote.  It is shorter, hangs to
> > just under butt.  I made a double cape, and left off the hood.  I made
> > mine from a surplus blanket first.  After I used it, and was satisfied
> > with the style, I made another out of a Whittney Horse Rug.  One thing I
> > did was sew the capote with the seams to the inside, thus my less than
> > fancy stitching is hidden.  Cut that blanket, and have fun with it.....
> > Hardtack
> >
> > ___________________________________________________________________
> > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

 northwest traders
5055 west jackson rd
enon oh 45323
937-767-9244
www.nwtrader.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:42:11 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Marion D. Watts)
Subject: MtMan-List: unsubscribe

unsubscribe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:10:11 -0800
From: "Sidney Porter" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: capotes

Kirk, I have a couple of pieces of advice when making a capote.  First, make
sure you have good ventalation while cutting and sewing.  The wool makes a
lot of lint.  It really makes me sneeze.  The higher quality the wool, the
less it does this, but all will be pretty "dusty".

Second, unless you feel like you really need themt, don't put those long
ties on the hood.  They get caught on everything and end up at the bottom of
the hooter!   After having a capote that wraps around and a long tailed wool
shirt, I much prefer the shirt.  If I were to make another capote for
myself, I would put buttons on it.

Sidney

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:04:37 -0800
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Correct water vessel

Barry Conner wrote:

> What's your idea for a light, correct water vessel that fits in the
> 1800-1840 time period, used in the Rocky Mountain Fur trade?
>
> Buck

Buck,

A couple of years back I decided that I didn't want to take my Old Town into
what was supposed to be an otherwise Period over water trek our group does each
spring up the Palouse river off the Snake in WA. After a bit of research I
settled on the classic Bateau and found in John Gardeners book "THE DORY" a set
of lines and offsets that would produce a 19' long by 52" wide bateau that could
be made by anyone and could be made heavy as the author intended or light as I
chose to do.

Brother Leonard Conelly put together a nice article on the boats used in the fur
trade and published it in T&LR about a year later. In his article he said that
though these boats were common and used plank construction (lapstrake, etc.)
they would not be practical these days because of the weight and the need to
keep them wet so they would stay tight. I had taken his advise before I heard it
and made mine of 1/4" marine plywood. Our friend "Badger" had made one 18' long
using fir planks in classical lapstrake construction but it is too heavy for two
men to launch off a trailer without a way to lift it up. My solution has proved
to be much lighter and handier.

Over the course of most of Jan. through early April I laid up this 19'r and
ended up with a period correct style boat that launches easily, can be paddled,
rowed or sailed as the originals were. It was not a difficult project and the
basic shape of this type of boat can be made in almost any size you have the
gumption and materials to make. Last spring I took my wife, and my friend John
"Digger" Pollack into the Palouse camp site in this 19' bateau. We went fairly
light but all three of us and all our gear fit in this boat safely. I sailed it
in upstream using a Sprit Sail with Boom and rowed it out down stream into a 25
knot wind with 2' seas. I was working hard the whole way but never had as much
problem as many of the other craft did especially the single manned canoes. On
another trip to Lake Roosevelt on the Columbia above Grand Coulee Dam with four
of us paddling and no cargo, we were able to run circles around 24' freight
canoes with 8 man crews.

There is a plan running around in wooden boat building circles called the 6 hr
canoe which is really a small bateau. It is about 16" long and will get one man
and his gear into most any water born trek he wants to go into. It only takes
two sheets of plywood to build and can be made in a living room. My boat wasn't
much more difficult but it took a room 24' long to loft it up.

Leonard's' article pointed out that this type of boat was used not just on the
Columbia but on the eastward drainage's too. If you look at some of the shipping
manifests of goods going west to the trapping grounds there was a considerable
quantity of oakum and pine tar. These two items were used to seal up simple
plank built boats that were built on site with simple techniques and used to
freight pelts back to St. Louie and else where. Not to say that bull boats or
hide boats or even birch bark weren't used but they were not the best and not
the most important. Birch bark canoes were used in Canada going to the Rockies
and back but Birch bark is not as easy to find in the Rockies as it is in the
lake country much farther east and so people like David Tompson and others made
use of the bateau/dory style hull to get them where they wanted to go.

If some one is serious about wanting to build a big bateau using the old and new
techniques, I will be more than happy to help them along the way. I
remain.......

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

> ________
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #206
*******************************

-
 To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to
"[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.