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hist_text-digest      Thursday, December 3 1998      Volume 01 : Number 183




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Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 19:41:47 -0500
From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Blunderbuss wanted...

I'm writingthis for a friend of mine.  She wants to surprize her hubby with
a blunderbuss for his birthday, but doesn't know where to get them.  I told
her I'd ask on here.  You can private the mail to me so as not to take up
space on the List...  Thanks alot :))

[e-mail]

SeanBear

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 19:24:45 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: MtMan clothing

Dear MtMan List Members,

    While reading through the clothing query responses from some of you, I have
noticed a common ground between us regarding the convenience and satisfaction
of owning and using clothing and other related items that are customized to
fit individual needs.  The main reasons, I have noticed, for learning to sew
clothing items are to save money, get custom made goods, and quality materials
and craftsmanship.

    I am very interested in anything associated with MtMan clothing gear and how
it relates to the MtMan way of life and how you, specifically, craft your own
replica clothing.  Thank you very much for your responses.  I continue to look
forward to hearing from each of you.

Best regards,
Andrea Moore, Sewing Designer    Sewing Design Company
[e-mail]





------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:02:15 -0800
From: "The Windhams" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: California Rdvs Schedule

Randal,
keep an eye open around the first of the year on our web page, we'll be up
dating so. cal rondies about  1-1-99 also contact me off line and I'll give
you some other webs that keep track of the do'ns here in Cal.
http://www.ptw.com/~lattanze/home/blackhawk.html
Rick

- ----------
> From: RANDAL J BUBLITZ <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: California Rdvs Schedule
> Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 3:18 PM
>
> Ho the list....  does any one know of a listing on the web for California
> (southern) Rendezvous for 1999?  Any help would be appreciated.
> Hardtack
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:25:07 -0600
From: Bill Maddox <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Tanning deer hides.

I am new at this and don't know anything about tanning deer hides.  In
fact, I don't even hunt.  I am the Scoutmaster of a Boy Scout Troop in
Central Illinois.  The first half of deer season is over but the second
half is the first weekend of December.  We were camping last weekend in
a large woodland park, where deer hunting is not allowed but where it
could be heard going on.  One boy asked what they did with the hides and
I said that I did not know.  I discovered that the local shops that
prepare the fresh deer, discard the hides.  One of the boys wondered if
we could get some and tan them for Scout displays.  Can we do this and
do we have the time to get ready?  I have a large garden at my house
that still have the 6 foot tall tomato stakes still in the ground.  Can
I make a rack for tanning here and what supplies do I need?  I gues what
is more important is, HOW DO I DO IT?  I can follow directions and am a
persistent person.  Remember, we are neophytes at this and will have to
purchase what we need.  NO, WE DON'T HAVE DEER BRAINS.

Thanks,

Bill Maddox
Scoutmaster BSA Troop #198
Pekin, IL  [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:01:27 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tanning deer hides.

Bill,

You're biting off quite a project for Scouts. Hope they are more enthused than
my troop. Suggest you get the book "Deerskins to Buckskins" by Matt Richards.
Do a search at Amazon.com or BarnesandNoble.com. It's a great book on tanning
deerskins.

Todd Glover

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 18:33:31 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Designing and constructing replica clothing, please read

Dear List Friends,

    I just thought this might help clarify: the only objective for seriously
considering the crafting of one's own period "replica clothing" (or any
clothing) is to achieve a level of perfection in materials, workmanship and
performance impossible by other means.  There is no room in my schedule, and I
doubt in yours, for the investment of valuable time and resources (yours and
mine) which results in substandard or inferior clothing equipment that causes
endless grief, misery, and disappointment.

    I am suggesting the consideration of crafting your own replica clothing gear
because of the superior result which can be achieved only through careful and
thoughtful selection of materials and construction techniques.  We sew to
design and create a custom garment that will work for our own unique and
individual requirements, with careful attention to authenticity in the case of
replica clothing.

    When you choose to sew, you are choosing to improve your standards without
terrifying your pocketbook.  I hope this helps to explain . . .

Best regards,
Andrea Moore, Sewing Designer   Sewing Design Company
Product Designer       Apparel Designer       Sewing Author
[e-mail]





------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 03:32:33 -0800
From: Dave Parks <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re:Tanning Deer Hides

Bill Maddox asked about tanning deer hides. The following URL will
give you some taxidermy suppliers, for the chemicals needed as well as
instructions. Hope this helps,    Manywounds

            http://www.walnutcreekhardwood.com/links.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:53:37 +0000
From: [e-mail] (RANDAL J BUBLITZ)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tanning deer hides.

Bill, I sent a message back last night, must be lost in the ether...
H'yar we go again.  First , reference material.  Check out web site
http://www.lib.ucon.edu/NativeTech      .   Info on tanning.  Next, check
out these books; 'deerskins into buckskins' by Matt Richards  ISBN
0-9658672-0-x,  'Wet-scrape Braintanned Buckskin' by Edholm & Wilder
ISBN 0-9654965-4-6.  I have always used cow brains, which I obtain at
local Mexican food meat markets.  I prefer wet-scrape method of tanning.
No rack is required, only a fleshing beam- I use a piece of PVC sewer
pipe.  I use a draw knife (back edge) as my main scraper.  Soak hide, add
lye or wood ash to water to facilitate  hair slippage.  Drape hide over
beam and scrape off hair and all membrane on hair side.  Scrape off all
meat, fat and membrane from flesh side.  While resting resoak hide, to
take a long break put in freezer.  The hides I've done were done a little
here, a little there, with long 'rests' in the freezer.  get the hides
when you can, store in the freezer until ready to work.  Once hide is
very clean of all membrane, etc... soak in a brain 'soup' for hours.
Ring out better than you've ever rung anything before. Rinse and ring,
then work the hide until dry.  By work I mean, ring, stretch, pull, puch,
etc... over and again until dry.  You should end up with a soft, pliable
piece of leather.  If it is not, go back and repeat 'X' processes.  When
it is soft and pliable, smoke it.  I set up a canvas smoke house with my
small wood stove.  The smoke will reintroduce oils into the hide.  These
oils will help it mantain its pliability after being wet , etc...  I
realize that this message will probably raise more questions than it has
answered.  I also know that there are MANY techniques to tanning a hide.
Hence the reference materials noted.  Have fun with the boys, make sure
they keep their hands clean.  Avoid brain solution on open wounds, etc...
Bacterial infections are a concern if Hygiene is not practiced.  Any
questions....?  Just post again.  Many of us have tanned hides, and have
opinions onTHE way to do it.   Hope this of some help.   Hardtack

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:14:55 -0600
From: "Phil Petersen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tanning deer hides.

Well Longtrail.  Here is another opportunity to  excel.  Or should I send
him the hundred or so conversations you had with me?

Stubborn
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bill Maddox <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Saturday, November 28, 1998 10:37 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Tanning deer hides.


>I am new at this and don't know anything about tanning deer hides.  In
>fact, I don't even hunt.  I am the Scoutmaster of a Boy Scout Troop in
>Central Illinois.  The first half of deer season is over but the second
>half is the first weekend of December.  We were camping last weekend in
>a large woodland park, where deer hunting is not allowed but where it
>could be heard going on.  One boy asked what they did with the hides and
>I said that I did not know.  I discovered that the local shops that
>prepare the fresh deer, discard the hides.  One of the boys wondered if
>we could get some and tan them for Scout displays.  Can we do this and
>do we have the time to get ready?  I have a large garden at my house
>that still have the 6 foot tall tomato stakes still in the ground.  Can
>I make a rack for tanning here and what supplies do I need?  I gues what
>is more important is, HOW DO I DO IT?  I can follow directions and am a
>persistent person.  Remember, we are neophytes at this and will have to
>purchase what we need.  NO, WE DON'T HAVE DEER BRAINS.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bill Maddox
>Scoutmaster BSA Troop #198
>Pekin, IL  [e-mail]
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 01:33:33 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Snow Shoeing

I am probably going to get some snow shoes for Christmas and need some gear
help/advice.  Where can I find a pattern or instructions for making authentic
bindings?  What is the best leather to use for bindings?  Or is there a better
material for bindings?  What are other items that are good to have when
pre-1840 snow shoeing?  I will be wearing them mostly when persuing small game
in the winter woods.  Is there a type of gator that would be authentic for a
transitional longhunter (1785-1795)?  What are some good sources of
information on gear for cold weather jaunting?  Anyway, that is more than
enough questions for now.  Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving.  Thanks.

Grant

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 21:28:38 -0800
From: Dale Nelson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tanning deer hides.

Bill Maddox wrote:
>
> I am new at this and don't know anything about tanning deer hides.

Bill,  I tried to contact you off the list, but it bounced back, so I'll
try this route.  Don't salt the hides.  To save them until you are ready
for them, roll them up and freeze them, or get all the flesh and fat off
and let them dry stiff as a board.  Then they will keep until you are
ready.  If you salt them brain tanning won't work.  You don't need deer
brains.  Pork or cow brains work, and they can be ordered from the
butcher shop.  Tanning is an involved process and there are a number of
books on it, plus I have a video on the dry scrape method for sale.
$29.95 plus $3 postage.  It's a two hour video, and I think it beats a
book.  If you are interested I'll send you the address.  There are other
videos also, and you might be able to find either a book or video at the
library.  Lets see if I can find you a link to a store.
        http://www.rosenet.net/~flyingcd/index.html
Check him out, he sells books and videos.     DN

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 20:54:00 -0800
From: Dale Nelson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Native use of flintlock vs. percussion guns

Lets see, first someone said  "As far as native use , flints were
perfered. it was easier to find a piece of useable flint, than to get
caps."
    Then someone else said  "That sounds more like speculation than
documentable historical fact.  The Indians and mountain men were in the
arms race of the day and the choice of weapons was a life and death
decision for them."  Well shucks, now I'm going to have to add my
thoughts on this.  It seems to me that suggesting the Indians and Mtn.
men were in an arms race borders on speculation at the best, or at the
worst transposing 20th century thinking onto people of the 19th
century.  I own at least 50 books on the fur trade, and probably half
that many on antique guns, and I'm sorry, in my reading an arms race
isn't there.  I'm not saying that there weren't fights and stealing, be
that as it may, the Mountain Men and the Indians weren't at war, and in
fact they preferred to trade with each other.
  Then it was said "It was well documented by men of their day and
discussed here previously the reasons why flintlocks came up short.
Flintlocks, while they are pretty and nostolgic, are not all weather
rifles that one would want to stake ones life on under inclimate weather
conditions especially high winds and heavy rain."  Now that hurts my
flintlock loving soul.  What makes anyone think that a caplock rifle is
water proof?  It aint folks, and in fact a flintlock handles water
better than a caplock.  I live in rainey southwestern Oregon.  I've
killed a dandy buck in a lashing rain storm using a flintlock, just to
prove I could do it.  I've seen trail walks shot in rain storms and by
golly caplocks have to be well cared for or they will fail to fire just
as often as a flinter.  That's where wide brimmed hats come into use.
It provides a roof over the lock area.  One real eye opener is to go
watch a trappers run, which is a shooting match that requires among
other things, setting traps in water.  The trap is set, and then the gun
loaded and fired while the hands are still wet.  The shoot I watched
required three traps to be set, and most of the caplocks failed to fire
on the first, second or third shot due damp caps, but all of the
flintlocks fired all three shots.  Where can I find some of the "well
documented by the men of their day" remarks, I'd like to read them.
Then it was said "I'm not saying percussion was the total answer because
they were quickly replace by fixed ammunition (rimfire and centerfire).
In the days when you life depended on your ability to defend yourself or
get game, any man would want the best weapon available."  Hmmmmmm?
According to my books the big push to develop a breech loader was so the
gun could be used horseback.  It seems that muzzleloaders are difficult
to load on a galloping horse.  In fact the first firearm that was truly
useable horseback was the Colt Walker.  That's a six shooter that shoots
what was then a rifle charge.
    Lets see, I think I'll snip a bit of this and finish with what he says
here, "And if you ran out of powder it didn't much matter if you had a
flint or percussion rifle.  What I'm getting at is that it was no more
of a problem to obtain caps, keep them dry, etc. than it was to protect
you powder and keep it dry."  Right on, you speak the truth.  But I'd
like to point out that caps are just one more thing to keep dry, and
once wet, they don't work.  Flints don't have to be kept dry and you can
also start a fire with the lock.  Black powder that gets wet can be
dried out and it isn't as good, but it still works.  Wet caps, and you
are screwed.
    Hey, I'm not trying to be smart, or stomp on anyone's toes.  This is
just some stuff that I've noticed over the years, and I'm old enough to
have a contrary opinion.  DN

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 21:07:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tanning deer hides.

On Sat, 28 Nov 1998, Bill Maddox wrote:
> I am new at this and don't know anything about tanning deer hides.  In

Hallo Bill

Check out the following two resources

http://www.braintan.com

good advice and books.

and  http://www.healingearth.com/ which is Gil Schluter's page with a
section on brain tanning.  Gil is not only an accomplished tanner, but is
more than willing to help with problems in that field.

Regards

Lee Newbill
Viola, Idaho
email at [e-mail]
Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 01:13:04 -0600
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Designing and constructing replica clothing, please read

Andrea,

I have been reading your postings with interest and have a few questions for
you -- you said you'd been researching old ways of sewing.  How about we pick
your brain a little?

Given; many folks made what they knew with the skills they had and they may
have created some crude garments.  Not everything or everyone would have had
the same limited set of skills.  Clothes were manufactured (by hand) and
traded.  Some were more skilled than others.  Some may have apprenticed as
tailors.

What were the methods and materials of bindings, interfacing and linings
common
to the early nineteenth century?  What was the range (and method) of sizes in
finished goods intended for trade?

What types, colors and twists of thread were most common?  What  styles of
seams and stitching were used for the various garments and areas of garments?
Were French fell seams used or were they a development that came after the
sewing machine?  What were common seam allowances to protect from
unraveling of
fabrics?  Did they vary by fabric?

One might presume that there would be a greater variety of threads and
materials in the settlements where the made goods were fabricated than were
available on the frontier for self made goods.  Have you encountered any
information along these lines?

John...



Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #183
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