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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #182 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Saturday, November 28 1998 Volume 01 : Number 182 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:53:17 -0800 From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: MtMan-List: AMM T & LR This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BE17DB.B2B5FB20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Chief Clerk Is not Terry Avery The Chief Clerk Is: Jon Link 3483 Squires Conklin MI 49403 (616) 853-2626 ONE YEAR SUB $20.00 TWO YEARS$35.00 THREE YEARS $50.00 - ------=_NextPart_000_01BE17DB.B2B5FB20 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">The Chief Clerk Is not Terry Avery = The Chief Clerk Is: Jon Link 3483 Squires Conklin MI 49403 = (616) 853-2626 ONE YEAR SUB $20.00 TWO YEARS$35.00 THREE = YEARS $50.00 </body></html> - ------=_NextPart_000_01BE17DB.B2B5FB20-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 11:54:25 EST From: Coony35@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Native use of flintlock vs. percussion guns As far as native use , flints were perfered. it was easier to find a piece of useable flint, than to get caps. Ron Pathkiller ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 08:01:59 -0800 From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: MtMan-List: To many e-mails This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BE15EE.6171CBC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just deleted 25 e-mails that one person had sent one right after the other 24 of them could have been sent to the person it was addressed to there, was very little historical value to the mail which this list is suppose to be for. Now I am not trying to get people pissed off but if the shoe fits wear it. I open every e-mail that comes my way and I love reading about historical stuff. But this is not a chat line. Unless Dean has changed his format. Let use the list for what it is supposed to before. Come on I am waiting for the come backs that can justify the use of this list in that manor. Later Jon T - ------=_NextPart_000_01BE15EE.6171CBC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">I just deleted 25 e-mails that one = person had sent one right after the other 24 of them could have been = sent to the person it was addressed to there, was very little historical = value to the mail which this list is suppose to be for. Now I am = not trying to get people pissed off but if the shoe fits wear it. = I open every e-mail that comes my way and I love reading about = historical stuff. But this is not a chat line. Unless Dean = has changed his format. Let use the list for what it is supposed = to before. Come on I am waiting for the come backs that = can justify the use of this list in that manor. Later Jon T </body></html> - ------=_NextPart_000_01BE15EE.6171CBC0-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 23:47:05 EST From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Guy looking for help. Greetings Folks, Below find two messages sent to me in correspondence from a guy in West Virginia who is looking for help in getting a rendezvous together. Anybody in the area who might want to get together with him, or has a club in the area that might be interested in getting together with him about getting this together please respond to him directly at: BEARMTN@worldnet.att.net Longshot << I have 2000 acres of mountains in WV with a 17,500 sq. ft. log lodge with restaurant lounge and all the amenities, 50 unit RV park and all the trappings ect. Would like to organize a a spring and fall rendevou each year. Are there any commercial operations who manage a thing like this or where would a fellow start? Any help would be appreciated. >> << Firewood we got and portalets can be rented. The bath house has four showers but we can rig up more with the water buffalo and tents we have. With any kind of organization the field in front of the RV park could handle several hundred wigwams or what ever. We can make arrangements for horses (we have over 30 mile of trail riding and available and in use now.) You have my permission to notify anybody of my desires about a rendevou. crb >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 00:28:41 -0600 From: hawknest4@juno.com (michael pierce) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jeremiah Johnston Reburial I have a copy of the flyer I got it from yellow feather ---contact me offline and we will work out getting you a copy--- HAWK MICHAEL PIERCE 1-813-771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS==hawknest4@juno.com On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:07:10 -0600 "S.M.Despain-1" <sdespain@ou.edu> writes: >A couple months ago there was discussion about Johnston and his >reburial >at Cody, Wyo. There were mentions of some articles done on it in T & >LR. If anyone has citations or could run me copies of these articles >I >would gladley pay copy and mailing costs. Also, there was mention >that >the AMM, who I belive was heavily involved in the reburial, put out a >pamphlet on the event. If this is true I would be interested in a >copy >of this document too. If anyone can help me with these I would be >greatful. > >Thanks, > >Matt Despain >University of Oklahoma >sdespain@ou.edu > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 18:28:31 -0700 From: "Barry Conner" <buck.conner@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: New Wooden Barrels - -----Original Message----- From: Barry Conner <buck.conner@worldnet.att.net> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 4:22 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: New Wooden Barrels >Mike, > >There are several that carry wooden kegs, buy oak not the bass wood or other >woods advertised, Track Of The Wolf, Panther Primitives, Log Cabin >Shop(special order), seem to all handle the same barrel with the steel >loops - riveted. Good price and will last as long as you will want to use >them. Have a 2 1/2 and a 5 gal that were purchased at Friendship in the late >1950's and still use them. > >I have purchased several limb rapped (bands) handmade barrels that seem very >fragile, plus being very pricey, use them for displays or show and tells, >don't think they would take a lot of hard use like the other barrels. "Hard >use" being packed on horseback, canoe or even in the back of a truck going >and coming from an outing. > >Always seems the more expensive items, no matter how careful you are, are >the things to take a beating! > >Buck > >----------------------- >-----Original Message----- >From: MHoytRet@aol.com <MHoytRet@aol.com> >To: hist_text@xmission.com <hist_text@xmission.com> >Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 1:29 PM >Subject: MtMan-List: New Wooden Barrels > > >>I am looking for a source (economical) of new wooden barrels for a display, >>sized from small to large. >> >>Do you have any idea where to look? >> >>Mike Hoyt >> >> > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 18:28:14 -0700 From: "Barry Conner" <buck.conner@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: howdy - -----Original Message----- From: Barry Conner <buck.conner@worldnet.att.net> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 4:10 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: howdy >Bill, > >Your purchase of a Second Model Brown Bess , would fit early fur trade, >Charles E. Hanson, Jr. and several of us have talked about the use of >military musket and how far west did they go. According to Charley, he felt >that there were more of these type weapons that one would realize, his >reasoning was many received their musket as part payment when their time was >up, or just left and took it with them. Plus they had eaten and slept with >it for a long period of time and handling, maintance and use was second >hand. Not everyone could afford a fancy gun, with all the other equipage >needed. > >What's funny about this, is when we first started talking about muskets in >the fur trade, Charles was finishing his book on the Hawken rifle; "The >Hawken Rifle: Its Place In History", around 1977 or 1978. > >At that time most were pushing the Hawken as being the only correct gun for >the mountain man; Baird with Buckskin Report, Richey with Backwoodsman and >several others. Tradeguns were for breeds or Native American, or French; boy >has that one turned around as more research became available, thanks to Mr. >Hanson, etc. > >On the AMM page take a look at my personal page on tradeguns, mention >muskets (Brown Bess, etc.) < http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html >> > >I'm sure that others on this list can add to the use on you gun in the fur >trade and who else may have started out with one, this is a very good >information gathering source, so keep notes. > >Buck >----------------------------------- >-----Original Message----- >From: Jennifer & Bill Lynch <jlynch@bcm.tmc.edu> >To: hist_text@xmission.com <hist_text@xmission.com> >Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 1:29 PM >Subject: MtMan-List: howdy > > >>howdy, >>i came across your tracks on the internet and was hopin' you wouldn't >>mind me askin a question. i try to be as historically accurate as >>possible towards the early "american" fur trade era. outta fort osage >>missouri and all. i was lookin for a gun that would overall flexibilty >>when it came to time periods. i recently acquired a second model brown >>bess, for price and because after my research i felt it was probably the >>most common and practical (cuz i hunt varmints that walk and fly). i >>figured the bess would have been used by trappers during the turn of the >>century and well on into the brief "heyday". the only absolute >>documentation i have is of manuel lisa carryin' one up the missouri. but >>of course the war of 1812 brought alot of these smoothebores into the >>northern rockies too. but ya sure don't hear much about 'em at >>rendezveous. i'm very aware of the popularity of the northwest trade gun >>and heard it may even predate the bess. i guess i'm just wonderin' if i >>might need to trade for one of them. if you have any documentaion or >>advice i would much appreciate it. >>bill lynch >> > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:22:15 -0700 From: "Barry Conner" <buck.conner@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: New Wooden Barrels Mike, There are several that carry wooden kegs, buy oak not the bass wood or other woods advertised, Track Of The Wolf, Panther Primitives, Log Cabin Shop(special order), seem to all handle the same barrel with the steel loops - riveted. Good price and will last as long as you will want to use them. Have a 2 1/2 and a 5 gal that were purchased at Friendship in the late 1950's and still use them. I have purchased several limb rapped (bands) handmade barrels that seem very fragile, plus being very pricey, use them for displays or show and tells, don't think they would take a lot of hard use like the other barrels. "Hard use" being packed on horseback, canoe or even in the back of a truck going and coming from an outing. Always seems the more expensive items, no matter how careful you are, are the things to take a beating! Buck - ----------------------- - -----Original Message----- From: MHoytRet@aol.com <MHoytRet@aol.com> To: hist_text@xmission.com <hist_text@xmission.com> Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 1:29 PM Subject: MtMan-List: New Wooden Barrels >I am looking for a source (economical) of new wooden barrels for a display, >sized from small to large. > >Do you have any idea where to look? > >Mike Hoyt > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:10:27 -0700 From: "Barry Conner" <buck.conner@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: howdy Bill, Your purchase of a Second Model Brown Bess , would fit early fur trade, Charles E. Hanson, Jr. and several of us have talked about the use of military musket and how far west did they go. According to Charley, he felt that there were more of these type weapons that one would realize, his reasoning was many received their musket as part payment when their time was up, or just left and took it with them. Plus they had eaten and slept with it for a long period of time and handling, maintance and use was second hand. Not everyone could afford a fancy gun, with all the other equipage needed. What's funny about this, is when we first started talking about muskets in the fur trade, Charles was finishing his book on the Hawken rifle; "The Hawken Rifle: Its Place In History", around 1977 or 1978. At that time most were pushing the Hawken as being the only correct gun for the mountain man; Baird with Buckskin Report, Richey with Backwoodsman and several others. Tradeguns were for breeds or Native American, or French; boy has that one turned around as more research became available, thanks to Mr. Hanson, etc. On the AMM page take a look at my personal page on tradeguns, mention muskets (Brown Bess, etc.) < http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html > I'm sure that others on this list can add to the use on you gun in the fur trade and who else may have started out with one, this is a very good information gathering source, so keep notes. Buck - ----------------------------------- - -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer & Bill Lynch <jlynch@bcm.tmc.edu> To: hist_text@xmission.com <hist_text@xmission.com> Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 1:29 PM Subject: MtMan-List: howdy >howdy, >i came across your tracks on the internet and was hopin' you wouldn't >mind me askin a question. i try to be as historically accurate as >possible towards the early "american" fur trade era. outta fort osage >missouri and all. i was lookin for a gun that would overall flexibilty >when it came to time periods. i recently acquired a second model brown >bess, for price and because after my research i felt it was probably the >most common and practical (cuz i hunt varmints that walk and fly). i >figured the bess would have been used by trappers during the turn of the >century and well on into the brief "heyday". the only absolute >documentation i have is of manuel lisa carryin' one up the missouri. but >of course the war of 1812 brought alot of these smoothebores into the >northern rockies too. but ya sure don't hear much about 'em at >rendezveous. i'm very aware of the popularity of the northwest trade gun >and heard it may even predate the bess. i guess i'm just wonderin' if i >might need to trade for one of them. if you have any documentaion or >advice i would much appreciate it. >bill lynch > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 13:42:50 +0000 From: randybublitz@juno.com (RANDAL J BUBLITZ) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: howdy Bill, The Bess was readily available as 'surplus'. Any commoner, who needed a good, serviceable arm would have access to these arms. I know several Mtn. Men who carry a brown bess. If you are happy with it, I'd advise carrying it with pride. Hardtack ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 13:45:26 +0000 From: randybublitz@juno.com (RANDAL J BUBLITZ) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: New Wooden Barrels Mike, Jas Townsend & son carry barrels. Whether this is the cheapest source, I don't know. check 'em out at http://www.jastown.com/ Hardtack ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:28:39 -0800 From: Dennis Fisher <dfisher@sbceo.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Native use of flintlock vs. percussion guns Coony35@aol.com wrote: > As far as native use , flints were perfered. it was easier to find a piece of > useable flint, than to get caps. That sounds more like speculation than documentable historical fact. The Indians and mountain men were in the arms race of the day and the choice of weapons was a life and death decision for them. It was well documented by men of their day and discussed here previously the reasons why flintlocks came up short. Flintlocks, while they are pretty and nostolgic, are not all weather rifles that one would want to stake ones life on under inclimate weather conditions especially high winds and heavy rain. I'm not saying percussion was the total answer because they were quickly replace by fixed ammunition (rimfire and centerfire). In the days when you life depended on your ability to defend yourself or get game, any man would want the best weapon available. To me the often heard line about being able to pick up flint anywhere as opposed to having to bring along caps is a bunch of BS. You darn sure are not going to find gunpowder lying around the plains any easier than percussion caps. You had to buy powder and bring it along and keep it dry, etc. And if you ran out of powder it didn't much matter if you had a flint or percussion rifle. What I'm getting at is that it was no more of a problem to obtain caps, keep them dry, etc. than it was to protect you powder and keep it dry. Once percussion caps were commonly available flintlocks were converted or replaced by men whose life and livelyhood depended on reliable functioning of their weapons. Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:32:44 EST From: KQuinn1@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Percussion evolution Would the change to percussion from flintlocks have originated in the East, where the rifles were first built, or from the frontier, where they were coming into wider and more urgent use? Was the frontier the trendsetting "California" of its day? I heard St. Louis mentioned. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 08:55:01 -0700 From: Longtrail <ezra@midrivers.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jeremiah Johnston Letters & Stories In my local library is a book on the history of Red Lodge County here in MOntana. In it are letters from John Johnston (Jerimiah Johnson) in which he rebukes having ever eaten the liver of a human, and also tells he never had an Indian woman for a wife or otherwise. And goes on to relate how the stories originated. I contacted the people who compiled the book and although one has passed away, the other has given me permission to print the article word for word. While doing that, I put so much information on "one page" that my computer wont let me do any changes. Now I have a chopped up article that I don't think is good enough to post. I can do a lot of things well, but computers isn't one of them. If I could retype the article, which is quite lengthy, and send it to someone who could post it on their site and mail it out in multiple mailings, something I can't figure out how to do, I would be willing to do so. It is a very interesting article, some parts quite amusing and most eye opening concerning the Legend we have all come to admire. Or could this qualify as something to post on the AMM site???? Longtrail Ps. Geewhiz Jon, ya made me blush. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 23:18:52 +0000 From: randybublitz@juno.com (RANDAL J BUBLITZ) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: California Rdvs Schedule Ho the list.... does any one know of a listing on the web for California (southern) Rendezvous for 1999? Any help would be appreciated. Hardtack ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 00:50:03 -0600 From: hawknest4@juno.com (michael pierce) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jeremiah Johnston Reburial john t I have the flyer---would like to have a xerox of the article---i may have it in one of my old t & lt but would have to dig---could you send me a copy or send it to my aol account e-mail is alpega@aol.com HAWK MICHAEL PIERCE 1-813-771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS==hawknest4@juno.com On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 06:17:28 -0800 "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> writes: >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >------=_NextPart_000_01BE183B.47113640 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >I have the T&LR that has the article about J Johnston and his reburial >at >Cody WY. I am going to the Pacific Beaches this weekend and will scan >it >when I get home next week if I don't please poke me with a stick and >I'll >do it. The memory is not as good as it use to be. Or maybe I >remember >only what I want to. Later Jon T > >---------- >: From: S.M.Despain-1 <sdespain@ou.edu> >: To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >: Subject: MtMan-List: Jeremiah Johnston Reburial >: Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 11:07 AM >: >: A couple months ago there was discussion about Johnston and his >reburial >: at Cody, Wyo. There were mentions of some articles done on it in T >& >: LR. If anyone has citations or could run me copies of these >articles I >: would gladley pay copy and mailing costs. Also, there was mention >that >: the AMM, who I belive was heavily involved in the reburial, put out >a >: pamphlet on the event. If this is true I would be interested in a >copy >: of this document too. If anyone can help me with these I would be >: greatful. >: >: Thanks, >: >: Matt Despain >: University of Oklahoma >: sdespain@ou.edu >: >------=_NextPart_000_01BE183B.47113640 >Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > ><html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">I have the T&LR that has the = >article about J Johnston and his reburial at Cody WY. I am going >= >to the Pacific Beaches this weekend and will scan it when I get home = >next week if I don't please poke me with a stick and I'll do it. = > The memory is not as good as it use to be. Or maybe I = >remember only what I want to. Later Jon T = > ---------- : From: S.M.Despain-1 <color=3D"#0000FF">sdespain@ou.educolor=3D"#000000">> : To: color=3D"#0000FF">hist_text@lists.xmission.comcolor=3D"#000000"> : Subject: MtMan-List: Jeremiah Johnston = >Reburial : Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 11:07 AM : : A = >couple months ago there was discussion about Johnston and his = >reburial : at Cody, Wyo. There were mentions of some articles >= >done on it in T & : LR. If anyone has citations or could >= >run me copies of these articles I : would gladley pay copy and = >mailing costs. Also, there was mention that : the AMM, who I >= >belive was heavily involved in the reburial, put out a : pamphlet >on = >the event. If this is true I would be interested in a copy : >of = >this document too. If anyone can help me with these I would = >be : greatful. : : Thanks, : : Matt Despain : = >University of Oklahoma : color=3D"#0000FF">sdespain@ou.edu : >= > ></body></html> >------=_NextPart_000_01BE183B.47113640-- > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:09:14 -0700 From: "David Tippets" <dtippets@xmission.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Scottish Lee, I haven't had time to converse on the list for about a month, so this reply about the Scottish and other mountain men is belated. Go back and look at Alexander Ross's two-page subjective evaluation of the different kinds of mountain men, their character, and their abilities. He grades Canadian, Sandwich Islanders, Iroquois, half breeds, voyaguers, free men, and others -- but he doesn't, in the same manner, pigeon hole Scottish, Americans or French, per se. Why not? I'm not sure. Ross is careful, as you have oberseved of other Scottish journal keepers to carefully identify Indians by tribe, rather than just lumping them as Indians. However, Ross's classification of Canadians seems to violate the norm you've described. He heaps praise on both Canadians and voyaguers as to both their character and the quality of their abilities in the fur trade. He does not lump them into one category. It is also interesting to note that the people Ross lists as Canadians or voyaguers make up a very small percentage of the population engaged in the fur trade on the Columbia, according to Ross's own estimates of the numbers. Half-breeds make up a larger percentage and he doen't not call the half-breeds Canadians, even though he mentions that many of the half-breeds come from near Montreal. This leads me to believe, that Alexander Ross, as one, must be lumping Anglo-Saxon French Canadians with those he calls simply Canadians. Ross's classification of human beings doesn't seem to jive with the other sources of information that you have read. Perhaps Ross is different because his fur trade perspective is almost exclusively Western and he started in the West. Most of the other Scottish and Brittish journal keepers began their careers in Eastern Canada where populations of French-speaking Canadians would have been a much more dominant part of the fur-trade culture. Dave He praises - -----Original Message----- From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Sunday, October 25, 1998 7:54 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Scottish >On Wed, 21 Oct 1998, David Tippets wrote: >> the West are facinating. Let's probe a little deeper into the concept of >> Scottish mountain men. The answer to MacRaith's original question can be a >> simple as some Scottish names, or more complex if you put those Scottsmen in >> the context of the political and corporate intrigue of their day. > >Hallo Again > >I have noticed in my readings, when I'm reading American accounts, the >nationality of the subject appears to be either "white man" or typified >by race, whereas reading Canadian or British journals, they are very >careful to call folks by their orignal nationality.... Scott, Irish, etc, >and when they refer to Indians, almost invariably they refer to the >tribe... Kutenai, Piegan, what have you. Even the 3rd or 4th >generation Frenchmen of Montreal were refered to as French, and not simply >Canadian. > >I'm wondering if this is not due to the fact that by that time (1810 or >so), the U.S. was a proud young Nation, and the Canadas was still a >colony? > >I still have a lot of reading to do, so maybe this is an abberation. > >As for Astor, I always felt kinda bad about his losing Astoria for pennies >on the dollar during the war of 1812... then I found out he did the same >thing to his Nor-wester partners later when the American Congress outlawed >foriegn owned business a couple of years later (and they were both >partners in the Southwest(?) Company). He also warned the >Canadians about the impending war of 1812 so his business partners >(British) could seize the border fur depots and save his furs... > >Not uncommon bedfellows, war and profit. > >Regards > >Lee Newbill >Viola, Idaho >email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu >Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage >http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186 > > ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #182 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.