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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #173 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Thursday, November 12 1998 Volume 01 : Number 173 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:20:18 -0500 From: MacRaith@mail.swbell.net Subject: MtMan-List: GUN Save room for my Traditions. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 20:00:29 EST From: RR1LA@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gun, Direction, Lights, et al The hell with the guns; the best campfire parties are on the other side of the tracks....... thats where i'll be. and to steve berlin... you are the winner with the shortest, most concise answer to the direction thread; one that was worn out long ago. YHS, Shootz Himself ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:03:25 -0500 From: "Carpenter's" <kcarpenter@bigbear.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Black Powder jdsteach@dwave.net wrote: > I know that fff creates more pressure in small cal. rifles. > > Pilgrim JD I don't have anything smaller than 45 cal., so I always use 2f. I have read of a couple, or more, ways the old timers decided how much powder to use, e.g., place a ball in the palm of your hand and cover it with powder, then use that much. Or, some used, half the weight of the round ball. For a hunting load, I go with half the weight of the round ball. In my 54 Great Plains, I use 110 grains of 2f, as it shoots about a 220 grain round ball. I use half for punching paper and easily shoot, off the bench, silver dollar groups, at 50 yards (primitive sights) , which is close enough for me. Carp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 20:03:12 EST From: RR1LA@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Dixie Gun Works IMHO, the best, highest quality thing they offer is their catalog; worth every penny they get for it. Shootz Himself ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:15:45 -0600 From: "Jody Carlson" <sjsdm@conpoint.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabelas Flintlock Hey Fred, Where did I make any of the comments your complaining about??? I simply said I had a gun that shot good and I was satisfied with for now. Maybe in the future you should actually read the note before complaining about it. I thought we were here to exchange ideas and experiences not hack each other constantly. Enough said, JC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 20:27:01 -0600 From: "yellow rose/pendleton" <yrrw@cyberramp.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Direction, Cabela's Guns, and other stuff C'mon guys. This stuff is wearing me out. My dang finger is getting sore from hitting the delete button so much. Right is left, left is right Cabela's Guns are ok, no their dog stuff, Dixie's are ok, no their not. Who cares, all the guy can do is buy the best he can afford and go from there. If he screws up so be it. It ain't like we all have never messed up. Your wallet is your best teacher, but just because one make of gun doesn't suit you that doesn't mean it won't suit me. Wore out, Pendleton ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 20:36:16 EST From: RR1LA@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: House of Muskets Johnny (and the rest of the list), This link is to a page called shooters resources, and has address info for almost all of the BP gun makers and supplies outfits you can think of, including House of Muskets. Hope this helps. YHS, Shootz Himself <A HREF="http://users.aol.com/canaltwo/bp-parts.htm">Shooter's Resources</A> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 20:59:01 EST From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: House of Muskets Shootz Himself writes: > Johnny (and the rest of the list), This link is to a page called shooters > resources, and has address info for almost all of the BP gun makers and > supplies outfits you can think of, including House of Muskets. Thanks for the plug. I'm glad somebody looks at it after all the work I put into gathering up all those sources. I have about 30 more to add if I ever get around to it. OldFox ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:15:21 -0800 (PST) From: linda lawyer <lmlawyer@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Direction, Cabela's Guns, and other stuff "AMEN" - ---yellow rose/pendleton <yrrw@cyberramp.net> wrote: > > C'mon guys. This stuff is wearing me out. My dang finger is getting sore > from hitting the delete button so much. Right is left, left is right > Cabela's Guns are ok, no their dog stuff, Dixie's are ok, no their not. Who > cares, all the guy can do is buy the best he can afford and go from there. > If he screws up so be it. It ain't like we all have never messed up. Your > wallet is your best teacher, but just because one make of gun doesn't suit > you that doesn't mean it won't suit me. > Wore out, > Pendleton > > == Hope to hear from you soon. Keith and Linda Lawyer _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:18:57 -0800 From: Chris Sega <chrissega1@powernet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabelas Flintlock -- Historically Accurate? SWcushing@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/11/98 11:25:42 AM, NaugaMok@aol.com writes: > > <<they just don't fit into a historically correct picture at all.>> > snip > . I fear though, with the scopes, and laser sights, our black > powder, muzzle loading hunting season, will soon be grouped into the modern > rifle gang..... bum me out. > Steve snip Don't worry that the muzzleloader season will continue to degrade into an arms and tecnology race for the best way to cheat. Colorado will be banning inlines during ML big game seasons, or already has, if my memory serves me right. Here in Nevada only open sights are allowed, and that really takes away the benefit of an inline anyway. Your most onry' and disobediant hivernant. Sega ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 20:41:08 -0800 From: "Munroe Crutchley" <rocrutch@cdsnet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gun I agree. I've only built a couple of rifles, and they weren't from kits. I had a good teacher for the important stuff, but some little things always go wrong --think of those things as "trademarks" of your personal work. It is hard to screw up a rifle beyond rescue if you take your time and ask questions before you stumble into unknown territory. This mailing list should be great for that. You may end up with a few more "trademarks" than the next guy, but you will be shooting something of your own creation which is, like the Mastercard commercial says, "priceless"! Munroe Crutchley Grants Pass, OR rocrutch@cdsnet.net > For all you boys considering buying an "entry level" (read T/C, CVA, etc.) I'd > recommend you get a catalog from Track of the Wolf (www.trackofthewolf.com) > They have some outstanding "kits" that you don't have to be a master gunsmith > to put together. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:27:38 -0800 From: Corey Tretteen <TretCo@wwc.edu> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabelas Flintlock -- Historically Accurate? I think I just felt a blast of cold air... the presence of evilness, maybe? >>> Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> 11/11 10:33 AM >>> Corey, Picture a modern bolt action rifle with bolt action and all the other lines typical of that style of firearm, probably with a plastic stock. Now load it from the muzzle as you would a normal ML'r. Now work the bolt as you would to insert a cartridge into the chamber. Instead of a cartridge, you will put a cap or high power primer on a nipple and close the bolt. The rifle is now ready to shoot. Kinda leaves you cold don't it! I remain........ YMOS Capt. Lahti' Corey Tretteen wrote: > "but if he's willing to make the attempt to LOOK PERIOD CORRECT(and not show up with one of those damn inline bp burners)" > > Ok, question. whats an inline BP burner? I get that it is a rifle, but what is the inline refering to? > > Corey ! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 02:33:47 -0600 From: Jeff Powers <kestrel@ticon.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gun >>I happen to highly suspect that I will be recieving a Cabella gun >>for Christmas. Sure, who wouldn't want a handmade, custom gun to >>"brag on". Having raised 2 boys on my own with little extra cash, >>I just feel damned lucky to be getting any gun at all. >>When I go to my next Rendez. I will be sure to camp on the other >>side of the tracks. >>LOL!!! >>Red Hawk >I think we'll be there together, me with my CVAs. :-) >Cheers, >HBC Hey Guys(and Gal),just out of principle,I'll join ya over there! Jeff Powers,Rogue & Ne'er do Well SOUFLE,SOUFLE, La Vielle Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 03:05:55 -0800 From: Corey Tretteen <TretCo@wwc.edu> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gun Anybody know when track of the wolf's website is going to be up? Corey > For all you boys considering buying an "entry level" (read T/C, CVA, etc.) I'd > recommend you get a catalog from Track of the Wolf (www.trackofthewolf.com) > They have some outstanding "kits" that you don't have to be a master gunsmith > to put together. ! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 06:31:01 EST From: MIA3WOLVES@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flinters Muzzle Blasts is the membership magazine forthe National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association. The membership fee is $35. Their address is: NMLRA; PO Box 67 Friendship, Indiana, 47021 (812-667- 5131) (web page: http://www.nmlra.org). Respectfully, Red Hawk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:44:10 -0500 From: "Mill, Kirk" <millk@aydin.com> Subject: MtMan-List: RE: in-lines Here in PA, it is flintlock, patched roundball, open sights only. I see very few in-lines at the range. This supports the theory that folks only buy them to extend their hunting season. A lot of writers in the sporting magazines denigrate PA for their restrictions, but we kinda like it this way, and you don't see many non-residents during ML season. Kirk Mill Don't worry that the muzzleloader season will continue to degrade into an arms and tecnology race for the best way to cheat. Colorado will be banning inlines during ML big game seasons, or already has, if my memory serves me right. Here in Nevada only open sights are allowed, and that really takes away the benefit of an inline anyway. Your most onry' and disobediant hivernant. Sega ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:37:32 -0800 From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabelas Flintlock -- Historically Accurate? Dear Friend, Yes Correy, there is a knight stalker out there that will take unbeliever= s in the knight. They will find themselves caught between two worlds ever= to ride the line between real and unreal. Some make it back. We try to s= ave as many as we can. But there are few of us and the minions of the kni= ght stalker are many. Some never come to the true path, forever doomed an= d cursed to walk where they know not who they are. They think they belong= but they don't. They are not truly of our world and they are not truly o= f the Other World. We would welcome them in but as long as they carry the= cursed impurity they can not truly walk the Path. Guard your selves My S= ons and Daughters. Do not be tempted by the Evil Dressed in Modern Sophis= tication. Keep close to your bosom the guards against evil we live by: Po= wder, Patch, and Ball. With my Friend True Rifle WE Shall Conquer ALL. I = remain..... YMOS Capt. Lahti' Corey Tretteen wrote: > I think I just felt a blast of cold air... the presence of evilness, = maybe? > > >>> Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> 11/11 10:33 AM >>> > Corey, > > Picture a modern bolt action rifle with bolt action and all the other l= ines typical of that style of firearm, probably with a > plastic stock. Now load it from the muzzle as you would a normal ML'r. = Now work the bolt as you would to insert a cartridge > into the chamber. Instead of a cartridge, you will put a cap or high po= wer primer on a nipple and close the bolt. The rifle is > now ready to shoot. Kinda leaves you cold don't it! I remain........ > > YMOS > Capt. Lahti' > > Corey Tretteen wrote: > > > "but if he's willing to make the attempt to LOOK PERIOD CORRECT(and n= ot show up with one of those damn inline bp burners)" > > > > Ok, question. whats an inline BP burner? I get that it is a rifle= , but what is the inline refering to? > > > > Corey > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = ! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:45:28 -0600 (CST) From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Direction, Cabela's Guns, and other stuff In other words, do what's best for you, and don't crap on someone else's choices. Hear, hear!! Let's move on. HBC >C'mon guys. This stuff is wearing me out. My dang finger is getting sore >from hitting the delete button so much. Right is left, left is right >Cabela's Guns are ok, no they're dog stuff, Dixie's are ok, no they're not. Who >cares, all the guy can do is buy the best he can afford and go from there. >If he screws up so be it. It ain't like we all have never messed up. Your >wallet is your best teacher, but just because one make of gun doesn't suit >you that doesn't mean it won't suit me. >Wore out, >Pendleton ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! ******* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:57:11 EST From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gun In a message dated 11/12/98 3:08:05 AM, TretCo@wwc.edu writes: <<Anybody know when track of the wolf's website is going to be up?>> Sorry, should have checked to see if it worked.... Here's the address and phone and email.... Track of the Wolf, PO Box 6 Osseo, Minnesota 55369-0006 612-424-2500 email: track@iaxs.net I don't work for those guys, just like the catalog and the stuff in it..... Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:06:05 -0600 From: Don Neighbors <neigh@marsaglia.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Browning Mtn Rifle I went thru a bitter divorce and my ex sold all of my guns. I am looking for a Jothan Browning Mtn Rifle in a 54 cal and a Penn Longrifle in a 45 cal. both in percussion. Can anyone help. Thank you all, Don Neighbors ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:46:38 -0600 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <rat@htcomp.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabelas Flintlock -- Historically Accurate? Capt You been sniffing too much hot flux lately? Lanney - -----Original Message----- From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Thursday, November 12, 1998 10:38 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabelas Flintlock -- Historically Accurate? Dear Friend, Yes Correy, there is a knight stalker out there that will take unbelievers in the knight. They will find themselves caught between two worlds ever to ride the line between real and unreal. Some make it back. We try to save as many as we can. But there are few of us and the minions of the knight stalker are many. Some never come to the true path, forever doomed and cursed to walk where they know not who they are. They think they belong but they don't. They are not truly of our world and they are not truly of the Other World. We would welcome them in but as long as they carry the cursed impurity they can not truly walk the Path. Guard your selves My Sons and Daughters. Do not be tempted by the Evil Dressed in Modern Sophistication. Keep close to your bosom the guards against evil we live by: Powder, Patch, and Ball. With my Friend True Rifle WE Shall Conquer ALL. I remain..... YMOS Capt. Lahti' Corey Tretteen wrote: > I think I just felt a blast of cold air... the presence of evilness, maybe? > > >>> Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> 11/11 10:33 AM >>> > Corey, > > Picture a modern bolt action rifle with bolt action and all the other lines typical of that style of firearm, probably with a > plastic stock. Now load it from the muzzle as you would a normal ML'r. Now work the bolt as you would to insert a cartridge > into the chamber. Instead of a cartridge, you will put a cap or high power primer on a nipple and close the bolt. The rifle is > now ready to shoot. Kinda leaves you cold don't it! I remain........ > > YMOS > Capt. Lahti' > > Corey Tretteen wrote: > > > "but if he's willing to make the attempt to LOOK PERIOD CORRECT(and not show up with one of those damn inline bp burners)" > > > > Ok, question. whats an inline BP burner? I get that it is a rifle, but what is the inline refering to? > > > > Corey > > ! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:07:12 -0800 From: Corey Tretteen <tretco@wwc.edu> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabelas Flintlock -- Historically Accurate? Well said, Captain. Well said. Maybe we should call you the gaurdian instead? : ) >>> Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> - 11/12/98 8:37 AM >>> Dear Friend, Yes Correy, there is a knight stalker out there that will take unbelievers in the knight. They will find themselves caught between two worlds ever to ride the line between real and unreal. Some make it back. We try to save as many as we can. But there are few of us and the minions of the knight stalker are many. Some never come to the true path, forever doomed and cursed to walk where they know not who they are. They think they belong but they don't. They are not truly of our world and they are not truly of the Other World. We would welcome them in but as long as they carry the cursed impurity they can not truly walk the Path. Guard your selves My Sons and Daughters. Do not be tempted by the Evil Dressed in Modern Sophistication. Keep close to your bosom the guards against evil we live by: Powder, Patch, and Ball. With my Friend True Rifle WE Shall Conquer ALL. I remain..... YMOS Capt. Lahti' Corey Tretteen wrote: > I think I just felt a blast of cold air... the presence of evilness, maybe? > > >>> Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> 11/11 10:33 AM >>> > Corey, > > Picture a modern bolt action rifle with bolt action and all the other lines typical of that style of firearm, probably with a > plastic stock. Now load it from the muzzle as you would a normal ML'r. Now work the bolt as you would to insert a cartridge > into the chamber. Instead of a cartridge, you will put a cap or high power primer on a nipple and close the bolt. The rifle is > now ready to shoot. Kinda leaves you cold don't it! I remain........ > > YMOS > Capt. Lahti' > > Corey Tretteen wrote: > > > "but if he's willing to make the attempt to LOOK PERIOD CORRECT(and not show up with one of those damn inline bp burners)" > > > > Ok, question. whats an inline BP burner? I get that it is a rifle, but what is the inline refering to? > > > > Corey > > ! ! ! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:46:00 -0600 From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: direction? Contrary to one posting I've found this an interesting thread. For those looking for an early nineteenth century online dictionary, which they claim Noah wrote. <<http://www.christiantech.com/>http://www.christiantech.com> The following is from Webster's 1828 Dictionary which supports of the downstream dominant position. Does that sound kinky? LEFT: <<http://www.christiantech.com/cgi-bin/webster.exe?search_for_cgi-bin/texts /web1828=left>http://www.christiantech.com/cgi-bin/webster.exe?search_for_c gi-bin/texts/web1828=left> "2. The left bank of a river, is that which is on the left hand of a person whose face is towards the mouth of the river." RIGHT: <<http://www.christiantech.com/cgi-bin/webster.exe?search_for_cgi-bin/texts /web1828=right>http://www.christiantech.com/cgi-bin/webster.exe?search_for_ cgi-bin/texts/web1828=right> "13. Being on the right hand of a person whose face is towards the mouth of a river; as the right bank of the Hudson." Also supporting this position is the Seine River of France. The famous Left Bank is on the South and the less famous Right Bank on the North as the river flows West through Paris and then turns north to empty into the English Channel. Consistent with the dictionaries. I suspect because landlubbers consider rivers primary waterways which flow from a source to the mouth. Now I have a question for the old salts. If the sea is the dominant factor in determining which is the "right" side of a navigable waterway marked under maritime rules, which side is the "right side" of the Panama Canal? What about channels between seas, like the English Channel? John... At 01:12 AM 11/11/98 -0700, you wrote: >Hello the List, > >The meaning of right and left when applied to the *BANKS* of a river is >clear and unambigious in all dictionaries. Note that refering correctly >to the *BANK* of a river is a separate matter from what is the right >side of river's mouth or a channel to a sailor returning from the sea. >Careful authors like Morgan use words according to their dictionary >definitions. Setting personal opinions aside, I would like anyone to >cite any dictionary anywhere that defines right BANK and left BANK >differently from the crystal clear statement that follows: > >"Note: In designating the banks of a river, right and left are used >always with reference to the position of one who is facing in the >direction of the current's flow." > >- Websters Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) ><http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict>http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict > >If I can find a 19th century online dictionary it will say the same >thing and I'll bring it to your attention, but it isn't the dictionaries >that argue about this definition, just us. > >Steve > Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:24:42 EST From: Tomactor@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: direction? In a message dated 11/12/98 11:48:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, kramer@kramerize.com writes: << Now I have a question for the old salts. If the sea is the dominant factor in determining which is the "right" side of a navigable waterway marked under maritime rules, which side is the "right side" of the Panama Canal? What about channels between seas, like the English Channel? >> And what about the Chunnel? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:35:25 -0800 From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabelas Flintlock -- Historically Accurate? Lanney, You may be right. You know, I have been wondering about that myself lately. Every since I built that Texas coffee pot I have been seeing things that weren't there before and I find myself saying things that prove to be of questionable veracity and are often seemingly proven to be wrong half the time. Infact my nose is burning. MOre I think about it the more I think your 'right' and you can 'bank' on it or is that 'left' out. Brother Kramer poses an interesting question concerning the Panama Canal and such water ways. When I get through flushing out the flux and can think strength again I shall look into it. I remain..... YMOS Capt. Lahti' Lanney Ratcliff wrote: > Capt > You been sniffing too much hot flux lately? > Lanney > -----Original Message----- > From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> > Date: Thursday, November 12, 1998 10:38 AM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabelas Flintlock -- Historically Accurate? > > Dear Friend, > > Yes Correy, there is a knight stalker out there that will take unbelievers > in the knight. They will find themselves caught between two worlds ever to > ride the line between real and unreal. Some make it back. We try to save as > many as we can. But there are few of us and the minions of the knight > stalker are many. Some never come to the true path, forever doomed and > cursed to walk where they know not who they are. They think they belong but > they don't. They are not truly of our world and they are not truly of the > Other World. We would welcome them in but as long as they carry the cursed > impurity they can not truly walk the Path. Guard your selves My Sons and > Daughters. Do not be tempted by the Evil Dressed in Modern Sophistication. > Keep close to your bosom the guards against evil we live by: Powder, Patch, > and Ball. With my Friend True Rifle WE Shall Conquer ALL. I remain..... > > YMOS > Capt. Lahti' > > Corey Tretteen wrote: > > > I think I just felt a blast of cold air... the presence of evilness, > maybe? > > > > >>> Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> 11/11 10:33 AM >>> > > Corey, > > > > Picture a modern bolt action rifle with bolt action and all the other > lines typical of that style of firearm, probably with a > > plastic stock. Now load it from the muzzle as you would a normal ML'r. Now > work the bolt as you would to insert a cartridge > > into the chamber. Instead of a cartridge, you will put a cap or high power > primer on a nipple and close the bolt. The rifle is > > now ready to shoot. Kinda leaves you cold don't it! I remain........ > > > > YMOS > > Capt. Lahti' > > > > Corey Tretteen wrote: > > > > > "but if he's willing to make the attempt to LOOK PERIOD CORRECT(and not > show up with one of those damn inline bp burners)" > > > > > > Ok, question. whats an inline BP burner? I get that it is a rifle, > but what is the inline refering to? > > > > > > Corey > > > > > ! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:44:03 -0800 From: Pat Quilter <pat_quilter@qscaudio.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: direction? I betcher the Panama Canal "changes banks" halfway between the oceans. Isn't there a lake in the middle of the passage anyway? If we "go with the flow" I imagine there is a certain net flow from this lake through the locks between it and each ocean, such that the "downstream" rule would also require us to change banks on either side of the canal's high point. Yoicks! Pat Quilter - -----Original Message----- From: Tomactor@aol.com [mailto:Tomactor@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, November 12, 1998 12:25 PM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: direction? In a message dated 11/12/98 11:48:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, kramer@kramerize.com writes: << Now I have a question for the old salts. If the sea is the dominant factor in determining which is the "right" side of a navigable waterway marked under maritime rules, which side is the "right side" of the Panama Canal? What about channels between seas, like the English Channel? >> And what about the Chunnel? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:40:59 EST From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: direction? In a message dated 11/12/98 11:48:12 AM, kramer@kramerize.com writes: <<which side is the "right side" of the Panama Canal?>> Damn John.....just when I figured we head all this settled! How about the "Intercoastal Waterway" which runs from Florida to who knows where.... well, a different set of rules here, and I'll let the Captain Lahti brief that one.... As for me, if I'm lookin for someone camping on the left or right side of the river, I be sure to ask which way he's headed, upstream or down...... Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:18:49 -0700 From: "Kurt Westenbarger" <kwesten@wyellowstone.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: direction? I tried sending this once, I guess it didn't get through so if this is double for you folks I apologize. KW Isn't it amazing (and wonderful) how such a simple question can raise so much contoversy! I was laying up thinking about this last night (yes I need to get a life, or mayhap better dreams) and wondered about Lewis & Clark. After all they wrote bunches about where they went. Often they refer to left & right as "larboard & starboard" which refer to left & right sides of a water craft. (as I understand it - been on the ocean twice and never heard either term - so if I'm wrong please correct) But they use it in reference to the river banks such as a river might enter upon the larboard side. My question is: do their references to left and right change when they change direction in relation to river flow. Is larboard (their left) when facing up the Missouri still their left when going down the Columbia in 1805? Is an object spotted on the larboard side on the way up the Missouri still on the larboard side while headed down? And is the same true when they refer to right and left instead of starboard & larboard? Just thought I'd throw this out and see if anyone wants the research challenge and will report back. Personally I find the topic interesting but there's not enough spark to catch fire - yet anyway. Another brain fart: I thought that when a ship entered harbor in the early days (whenever that was) there was a "pilot" or some such person who came out to the vessel to guide it in. This implies (to me) an absence of channel bouys. If this is so (and I plainly admit I'm way over my head when out on the ocean) when did channel bouys come into common use in harbors, river mouths, and in navigable rivers such as the Mississippi? I ask because the date may provde some insight into the direction issue. Snowin' here in West Yellowstone! :-) kurt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:27:28 -0700 From: "Barry Conner" <buck.conner@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: RE: in-lines In Colorado we pressured Fish & Game a few years ago with our muzzle loading assn. to change the rules to get rid of in-lines. This passed and everything was cool, then came the big buck manufactures that make the in-lines and started making donations to the boys in Colorado government this past year, so we're not sure if the tables will turn again or not. This will happen more than we like to think when these companies start looking at the special seasons and revenue lost from that state's hunters not being able to use their products. Have you seen some of the articles in hunting magazines with editors claiming 150-200 killing shots with these weapons and there pills measured in 30-50 grain loads. Just what we need some damn fool wounding more animals and fuel for the fire from the animal lovers. Buck - -----Original Message----- From: Mill, Kirk <millk@aydin.com> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Thursday, November 12, 1998 6:38 AM Subject: MtMan-List: RE: in-lines >Here in PA, it is flintlock, patched roundball, open sights only. I see >very few in-lines at the range. This supports the theory that folks only buy >them to extend their hunting season. A lot of writers in the sporting >magazines denigrate PA for their restrictions, but we kinda like it this >way, and you don't see many non-residents during ML season. >Kirk Mill > > > Don't worry that the muzzleloader season will continue to degrade >into an arms > and tecnology race for the best way to cheat. Colorado will be >banning inlines > during ML big game seasons, or already has, if my memory serves me >right. Here > in Nevada only open sights are allowed, and that really takes away >the benefit > of an inline anyway. > > Your most onry' and disobediant hivernant. > Sega > > > > ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #173 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.