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hist_text-digest     Wednesday, November 11 1998     Volume 01 : Number 172




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:20:37 -0800
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabelas Flintlock -- Historically Accurate?

Jeff,

Horn! I remain.....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

Jeff Powers wrote:

>    >Now Since I will be reenacting my anscestors who came over from
>    >Germany in the 1750s, I just have to figure out if I want to go with
>    >the Kentucky/Pennsylvania rifle or the Jaeger!  I know they used
>    >both of these in hunting and skirmishes.
>    >-mwh
> IIRC,most of the early Pennsylvania Gunsmiths were from the German states.
> With that in mind I would recomend a Pennsylvania,unless you just got off
> the boat;then a Jaeger!
> Jeff Powers,Rogue & Ne'er do Well
>
> If a tin whistle is made out of tin,what is a fog horn made out of?
>
> Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:33:56 -0800
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: direction?

Tom,

Are you trying to be cute? No of course not, you are being very serious here and
your questions deserve answers in the same spirit they were asked.

[e-mail] wrote:

> "Now that we know our right from our left, I need clarification on the
> following the old saying, "red, right, returning" returning to where? Upstream,
> Downstream? What If I start in the middle and go upstream? Am I going or
> returning. Another place where the rule of thumb is meaningless to the
> uninitiated.
> Can any navigator clear this one up for me?"
> Tom Laidlaw

  Has it not been established that for those "who go down to the sea in ships"
returning has always meant returning from the sea, returning up the channel and
returning up the river? It still means that. The "rule of thumb" was a device for
new sailors to remember the actual "rule" so they might know what they were seeing
from their lookout positions as they came into port or passed up or down the
channel. It is very important that the skipper of a vessel know where the safe
channel lies. I hope this clears up your confusion. I remain.....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:45:27 -0600
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Black Powder

Greetings, Wise Ones and others,
Along the shooting line I heard a skinner claim that he liked to shoot
fff in his 54 cal.  I, being the novice, asked why.  He claimed that it
shot cleaner and he used less powder.
Is this a good idea?
I know that fff creates more pressure in small cal. rifles.  I would
assume that it would be the same in a large bore.
Historically, what was the grade of the powder used by the early
explorers?  I find it hard to believe that there were 4 grades of powder
back then.
Any ideas?

Thanks for your time and thoughts.

Pilgrim JD

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:34:17 -0600
From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flinters

Washtahay-
At 11:31 PM 11/10/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-11-08 23:19:23 EST, you write:
>isn't listed there either.  Wish they WERE on line -- I need a new frizen for
>my trade gun!
    NaugaMoc-I have a spare.  You want it?
LongWalker c. du B.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:56:32 -0800
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: direction?

Shootz Himself?,

Is that you in here?

Consider that the mighty Columbia R. starts it's journey to the sea flowing north,
(so going down steam, the right side is the east side). It then turns south, (so
the right side going down stream is the west side). then after it enters the USA
it turns to the west, (so the right side of the river going down stream is the
north side) It travels in a southerly direction for quit a ways and before leaving
the State of Washington it turns east, (so the right side of the river is now the
south side going down stream. Then It turns westerly again and yup, you guessed
it, the right side going down stream is the north side again. Now it didn't do a
complete circle but only not by much. It's confusing isn't it? What might be more
correct would be to concider that as a river empties into the Atlantic or Pacific
or Gulf, at its mouth it will have a north and south side or east and west side
and thus will carry that distinction all the way to it's source just as highways
do. But sailors don't think of rivers that way.

That's why the right side is determined as you look up stream. Don't make no
difference where you start. Mouth, middle, end, beginning, the right bank is
determined as you look up stream. Or as you return from seaward. I remain....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

[e-mail] wrote:

> In a message dated 11/10/98 3:20:33 PM Pacific Standard Time, [e-mail]
> writes:
>
> << Can any navigator clear this one up for me? >> Thanks Tom, I needed that
> laugh.  and to Longwalker re: the rifle posting, again, AMEN.  YHS  Shootz
> Himself  (PS, not that this will help, <GGG> but: although
> 'red,right,returning' is correct for channel markers (headed in or up stream
> red is on the right) on ALL water and aircraft, of any size, red is left is
> port and never changes. therefore the side of a river, canyon, highway,
> mountian range, path or air corridor you are TALKING about changes with your
> direction of travel. (i.e. if going north, left is west, if going south left
> is east.) but, if you need to communicate that info to somebody else, then a
> compass direction is in order i.e. the EAST SIDE OF THE RIVER), something the
> NEVER changes, no matter which way you may be headed.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:14:43 -0800
From: Frank <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Black Powder

JD,

I'm sure glad you included "others",  I've been called a smart ass but never
a "wise one"!
I shoot fff in my 54 but right off I'd like to say I have a custom gun with
an expensive american made barrel.  My load is 70gr and I personally
wouldn't go over 90gr with fff.  That's just my opinion for myself and this
particular gun.  That load gives me very good accuracy and does allow me to
shoot quite a number of shots without being hard to load.  At the end of the
day it isn't as dirty as with ff, but the reason I shoot fff is because it
just shoots better for me!
I sure wouldn't use fff in any "inexpensive" gun as defined by all the
emotional textual commentary recently seen on this list.  With any gun/load,
work your way up to an accurate load slowly, starting with approximately the
same number of grains as the caliber i.e.: 50gr for 50 cal etc.
Again, that's just my opinion and in great fear and trembling of the
wrathful disdain of the "wise ones" I humbly submit this reply.  SHEESH!

Medicine Bear

[e-mail] wrote:

> Greetings, Wise Ones and others,
> Along the shooting line I heard a skinner claim that he liked to shoot
> fff in his 54 cal.  I, being the novice, asked why.  He claimed that it
> shot cleaner and he used less powder.
> Is this a good idea?
> I know that fff creates more pressure in small cal. rifles.  I would
> assume that it would be the same in a large bore.
> Historically, what was the grade of the powder used by the early
> explorers?  I find it hard to believe that there were 4 grades of powder
> back then.
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks for your time and thoughts.
>
> Pilgrim JD

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 01:25:30 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Black Powder

JD, iirc (if i recall correctly) powder was not originally packaged by
fineness grades, but did change as it was carried around and ground itself
down.  The coarser stuff was used down the barrel; the finer in the pan, as it
ignited faster. i think the age old advice of working up a load (powder
fineness and quantity, patch thickness, ball size combo) for YOUR own
particular rifle is still the best advice. they all shoot different, even two
made by the same manufacturer.                YHS, Shootz Himself

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 01:38:07 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: direction?

thank you Cap. thats the most sensible answer yet, and i gladly stand
corrected.             YHS,  Shootz Himself
In a message dated 11/10/98 9:58:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, [e-mail]
writes:

<< Consider that the mighty Columbia R. starts it's journey to the sea flowing
north,
 (so going down steam, the right side is the east side). It then turns south,
(so
 the right side going down stream is the west side). then after it enters the
USA
 it turns to the west, (so the right side of the river going down stream is
the
 north side) It travels in a southerly direction for quit a ways and before
leaving
 the State of Washington it turns east, (so the right side of the river is now
the
 south side going down stream. Then It turns westerly again and yup, you
guessed
 it, the right side going down stream is the north side again. Now it didn't
do a
 complete circle but only not by much. It's confusing isn't it? What might be
more
 correct would be to concider that as a river empties into the Atlantic or
Pacific
 or Gulf, at its mouth it will have a north and south side or east and west
side
 and thus will carry that distinction all the way to it's source just as
highways
 do. But sailors don't think of rivers that way.

 That's why the right side is determined as you look up stream. Don't make no
 difference where you start. Mouth, middle, end, beginning, the right bank is
 determined as you look up stream. Or as you return from seaward. I remain....

 YMOS
 Capt. Lahti'
>>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 01:38:24 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabelas Flintlock

opinionated, harsh, elitist....... he's all of those and more. God bless the
mountain man.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 02:02:37 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabelas Flintlock -- Historically Accurate?

In a message dated 98-11-10 10:11:47 EST, you write:

<< Now Since I will be reenacting my anscestors who came over from
 Germany in the 1750s, I just have to figure out if I want to go with
 the Kentucky/Pennsylvania rifle or the Jaeger!  I know they used both
 of these in hunting and skirmishes.
  >>

The Pennsylvania rifles of the 1750's era were what we now call "transitional"
rifles -- in other words, they were somewhere between the Jaeger & the slim,
graceful Penn's of the "golden age" we're seeing reproduced today.  I'd say
your best bet for historical accuracy is the Jaeger if you want a rifle.
There are many period correct smooth bores available, but, for me, the Jaeger
has a certain mistique.  Period correct "transitionals" are not that easy to
find -- I think there are only 1 or 2 people building them. As intrest grows
for this type rifle, I'm sure more will become evident, but to date, I've only
actualy seen 1 that fits this description. A blunt description of a
"Transitional" rifle is one that looks like a Penn who's stock needs to go on
a diet.  I'd like to have a Jaeger, but can't justify the expense of one when
my time nitche is 80 years later.  I think they're probably the best example
of the European firearms when it comes to marrying art to firearms.  The
Pennsylvania rifles carried on this tradition because of the strong German
influence there that spread through out the east.  A while back we were
discussing "Virginia" rifles & I'd completely forgotten problably the best
known example -- the "Silver Armstrong" --- DUH!!!  Even this rifle shows it's
German heritage that started here with the Jaeger.

NM

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 01:12:57 -0700
From: Steve Berlin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: direction?

Hello the List,

The meaning of right and left when applied to the *BANKS* of a river is
clear and unambigious in all dictionaries. Note that refering correctly
to the *BANK* of a river is a separate matter from what is the right
side of river's mouth or a channel to a sailor returning from the sea.
Careful authors like Morgan use words according to their dictionary
definitions. Setting personal opinions aside, I would like anyone to
cite any dictionary anywhere that defines right BANK and left BANK
differently from the crystal clear statement that follows:

"Note: In designating the banks of a river, right and left are used
always with reference to the position of one who is facing in the
direction of the current's flow."

- - Websters Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)
http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict

If I can find a 19th century online dictionary it will say the same
thing and I'll bring it to your attention, but it isn't the dictionaries
that argue about this definition, just us.

Steve

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 01:18:14 -0700
From: Steve Berlin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: direction?

Oh perfect, Steve, make that "unambiguous". <g>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 03:44:15 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: direction?

In a message dated 11/11/98 12:12:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Note: In designating the banks of a river, right and left are used
 always with reference to the position of one who is facing in the
 direction of the current's flow."

 - Websters Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)
 http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict >>

Thanks again, Steve --- Tom Laidlaw

Unbelievers can access this link to go directly to another statement

 <A HREF="http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=*&Query=Right">
Right</A>

<A HREF="http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=*&Query=Left+bank+of
+a+river">Left Bank

</A>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:04:02 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: direction?

Tom,
If you had read the note from Capt Lathi, you'd know it was returning from
sea. Since most rivers flow to the sea, going up stream would be .......I give
up.....

Steve

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:44:11 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Black Powder

In a message dated 11/10/98 9:41:56 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<<Along the shooting line I heard a skinner claim that he liked to shoot
fff in his 54 cal.  I, being the novice, asked why. >>

I, for years, have always used Lyman's "Black Powder Handbook" as a source of
information on loads and powder. If you don't have one, I'd sure recommend you
find one. On page 85, there is a discussion "Performance Evaluation:2Fg/3Fg in
.54 caliber"  I'll quote only a small part.... "Nearly equal velocities are
obtained through the use of a notably lighter charge of 3F powder. Pressure,
while up, is not at all alarming and this loading will minimize fouling....."
It goes on to say use 2F in .58 cal and larger. There is also a section on
"Proofs & Manufacturers Load Suggestions" for the low-life-dogs that use the
cheap, crummy, import guns......<g>

Steve

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:38:56 -0800
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: direction?

Hey guys!

I think what we are dealing with here are the lexicon's of more than one
discipline. I thank Steve for showing the dictionary passage as exhibit X. I have
no quarrel with that as a definition. My natural curiosity will require me to, as
suggested, keep my eye peeled for other references, not to "show you up" but to
learn and share. My original intent was to pass on what information I had "with
source" so that the inquirer could judge for himself the validity of the proffered
answer as to his circumstances. I think it wise as many have said, to make it
clear to your fellows which way you are looking. I remain.....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

[e-mail] wrote:

> Tom,
> If you had read the note from Capt Lathi, you'd know it was returning from
> sea. Since most rivers flow to the sea, going up stream would be .......I give
> up.....
>
> Steve

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:41:14 -0800
From: Corey Tretteen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flinters

Does anyone have the address for muzzle blast handy?   or how do I subscribe?


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 06:24:53 -0600
From: "Johnny Rutledge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: House of Muskets

Does any one have an address or phone number for the House of Muskets in
Colorado.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 06:48:31 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Gun

I happen to highly suspect that I will be recieving a Cabella gun for
Christmas.  Sure, who wouldn't want a handmade, custom gun to "brag on".
Having raised 2 boys on my own with little extra cash, I just feel damned
lucky to be getting any gun at all.
When I go to my next Rendez.  I will be sure to camp on the other side of the
tracks.
LOL!!!

Red Hawk

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:55:11 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gun

>I happen to highly suspect that I will be recieving a Cabella gun for
>Christmas.  Sure, who wouldn't want a handmade, custom gun to "brag on".
>Having raised 2 boys on my own with little extra cash, I just feel damned
>lucky to be getting any gun at all.
>When I go to my next Rendez.  I will be sure to camp on the other side of the
>tracks.
>LOL!!!
>
>Red Hawk

I think we'll be there together, me with my CVAs.  :-)

Cheers,
HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
******  Living History . . . Because it's there!  *******

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:55:59 -0500
From: "Colleen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flinters

>
> Does anyone have the address for muzzle blast handy?   or how do I subscribe?
>

Here's their website:

http://www.nmlra.org/

Colleen
(Many Ducks)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:29:27 -0800
From: Corey Tretteen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Start out with what you can afford...

In all of these messages, I haven't seen anyone refer to Dixie Gun Works.   Are they not a good company to deal with?



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:36:27 -0800
From: Corey Tretteen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabelas Flintlock -- Historically Accurate?

"but if he's willing to make the attempt to LOOK PERIOD CORRECT(and not show up with one of those damn inline bp burners)"


Ok, question.   whats an inline BP burner?   I get that it is a rifle, but what is the inline refering to?

Corey


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:09:52 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Black Powder

In a message dated 98-11-11 00:41:56 EST, you write:

<< Along the shooting line I heard a skinner claim that he liked to shoot
 fff in his 54 cal.  I, being the novice, asked why.  He claimed that it
 shot cleaner and he used less powder.
 Is this a good idea? >>

You are correct in your statement that 3F creates more pressure because of
it's faster burn rate.  A lot of us use 3F in our .50's & .54's for target
loads.  For example, in my .54 Dixie Poor Boy (it's been re-barreled for those
who don't like Dixie's origional Japanese barrel -- I didn't either!) with 2F,
my best accuracy for target load is 65 gr.  Our club has a lot of people who
are just starting out & are shooting those Lyman GP's, T/C's, CVA's & the
like, so we have a range limit of 60 gr of powder for safety's sake.  To stay
in compliance with that rule, I shoot 55 gr of 3F & get simular accuracy --
plus the side benefit of easier cleaning.  For heavy hunting loads, I still
use 2F for the pressure reasons you stated.  Someone mentioned not exceeding
90 gr of 3F in .54 cal -- I'd agree with that IF you have a good American made
custom barrel with a good breech system.

Did you happen to catch the History Channel's show on the development of black
powder?  That explained a lot about the development of our prefered propelant.
After the discovery of "corning", powder was shipped in cakes & ground to
whatever granulation was desired as I understand it -- I missed the show, so
this is second hand -- maybe someone who saw it can explain better.

NM

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:04:48 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: direction?

In a message dated 11/11/98 1:05:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Tom,
 If you had read the note from Capt Lathi, you'd know it was returning from
 sea. Since most rivers flow to the sea, going up stream would be .......I
give
 up.....

 Steve >>
Yep, I got that one OK
Thanx, Tom

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:23:46 -0800
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Start out with what you can afford...

Corey,

You just saw Tom Crooks refer to them as "Dixie Junk Works". There is a reason for this sentiment and I agree with him.
Now I am sure that Dixie may have some things that are not available from someone else but with this outfit you really
have to be careful just as we have been trying to advise the newer members of our fraternity to be very careful when they
think they are going to get into this sport for very little money. Buyer beware! I personally think the advise 'to save
for the best you can afford and then save some more' is the only way to go. Going inexpensive will often cost you more in
lost function and reliability and surely in satisfaction than you saved. Then too, Dixie is not a cheap place to buy
things "muzzle loading". They are very proud of their "stuff". Did this help? I remain.....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

Corey Tretteen wrote:

> In all of these messages, I haven't seen anyone refer to Dixie Gun Works.   Are they not a good company to deal with?
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:33:32 -0800
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabelas Flintlock -- Historically Accurate?

Corey,

Picture a modern bolt action rifle with bolt action and all the other lines typical of that style of firearm, probably with a
plastic stock. Now load it from the muzzle as you would a normal ML'r. Now work the bolt as you would to insert a cartridge
into the chamber. Instead of a cartridge, you will put a cap or high power primer on a nipple and close the bolt. The rifle is
now ready to shoot. Kinda leaves you cold don't it! I remain........

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

Corey Tretteen wrote:

> "but if he's willing to make the attempt to LOOK PERIOD CORRECT(and not show up with one of those damn inline bp burners)"
>
> Ok, question.   whats an inline BP burner?   I get that it is a rifle, but what is the inline refering to?
>
> Corey

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:08:27 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gun

I built my own longrifle, and I'll camp with you guys!
Steve

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:19:16 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Start out with what you can afford...

In a message dated 98-11-11 12:44:52 EST, you write:

<< In all of these messages, I haven't seen anyone refer to Dixie Gun Works.
Are they not a good company to deal with?
  >>

They probably have the largest selection available from one source, but the
guns they sell are the ones we've been talking about -- Pedersoli, EuroArms,
Lyman, T/C, CVA, Traditions, & etc.  Even their own guns have -- or had
Japanese barrels -- I haven't seen any of their newer stuff lately.  They're
good people to do business with IF they have something you need -- they'll
treat you right.  They ARE probably the best source for parts for origional
guns -- especialy the early cartridge types.  They have some stuff you won't
fina anywhere else.  Historicaly, they're probably more help for Civ War
enthusiasts than the earlier periods, but they DO have earlier stuff.  They're
a bit high on some of their pricing, but they do send out sales circulars that
have some realy good prices.  They have a good selection of parts for building
& repairs for our muzzleloaders, but again, they're a tad high on their prices
- -- not realy out of line, but a bit higher than, say, Track of the Wolf.
Their catalog is well worth what they charge for it -- it has a TON of
information in the back dealing with converting period terms to modern
language -- like Aquafortis = Nitric acid, & exact diameters of the different
shot sizes, both American & British & a bunch of other info it's nice to have
a handy source for.

NM

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:19:28 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gun

In a message dated 98-11-11 11:52:41 EST, you write:

<< I happen to highly suspect that I will be recieving a Cabella gun for
 Christmas.  Sure, who wouldn't want a handmade, custom gun to "brag on".
 Having raised 2 boys on my own with little extra cash, I just feel damned
 lucky to be getting any gun at all.
 When I go to my next Rendez.  I will be sure to camp on the other side of the
 tracks.
 LOL!!!
  >>

You & Henry can camp next to me any time.  I also started with a CVA, but have
gone on to better as I could afford.  The thing you gotta keep in mind is your
rifle may not be as strong as a custom built, but then too, it doesn't realy
require 500 gr of powder to poke a hole in a piece of paper or make a
"clanger" go "DING".  Keep your loads within reason & you should have no
problem.  Play with it a bit & I'm sure you'll find a loading between 40 & 80
gr that shoots just fine that's well within the guns capabilities.  You'll
also save money on powder!!!  We have one father of a big family (8 kids & 3
grandkids all at home yet) that constantly scores well with a .54 only
shooting 35 gr of powder.

NM

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:19:21 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabelas Flintlock -- Historically Accurate?

In a message dated 98-11-11 12:58:22 EST, you write:

<< Ok, question.   whats an inline BP burner?   I get that it is a rifle, but
what is the inline refering to?
  >>

It's one of the modern B/P rifles that are being built by Ruger, CVA, Knight,
Remington, & others that look like a modern bolt action rifle.  The percussion
cap is directly in line with the bore.  A lot of us don't like 'em 'cuz they
don't "look right".  They're also designed to use bullets/slugs & sabots
instead of our prefered round ball.  They're touted to have better accuracy,
range & stopping power for hunting purposes, but a lot of this is advertising
hype.  They may be more accurate with slugs than our round ball rifles, but
just load one up with a round ball & the shoe's on the other foot.  The
biggest problem with them is when someone shows up at a historical reenactment
carrying one & expects us to welcome them with open arms 'cuz they shoot a B/P
muzzleloader -- "Sorry, Charlie -- it ain't period correct!"  We've kinda
turned a blind eye to the T/C's & traditionaly locked imports, but the in-
lines are so glaringly out of our time period in appearance, they're just not
acceptable.  Not that inline ignition systems are NOT period correct -- I've
seen pictures of a inline flint lock from back in the 1700's, but the modern
inline is so like a modern Remington 700 BDL or Ruger 77 or Winchester 70,
they just don't fit into a historicaly correct picture at all.

NM

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:42:23 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gun

Ho the list,
For all you boys considering buying an "entry level" (read T/C, CVA, etc.) I'd
recommend you get a catalog from Track of the Wolf (www.trackofthewolf.com)
They have some outstanding "kits" that you don't have to be a master gunsmith
to put together. And, what's great, is you can buy a piece at a time if ya
don't have the money to buy  all the parts at once. Start with a pre-inlet
stock and barrel and add from there.  Some of the tricky work can be done by
them or you local gunsmith....  The only problem with the Track catalog is
I've found about $10,000 worth of stuff I gotta have....
The first rifle I built was the Bivins 1770 Lancaster and it came out great
even for a guy like me that makes firewood out of most everything! With a .54
cal,  42" Getz  (not available now) barrel, it's a rocket launcher and I've
terrorized most of Western Alaska with it. Even managed to decimate a few
moose and caribou herds!
Steve


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:54:08 -0500
From: "Mill, Kirk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Start out with what you can afford...

My last rifle that I built was from Dixie parts. I had mixed results. The
Douglas barrel was good, no problems. I had ordered a P+ stock and they sent
me an SP, so that was a good deal. I had ordered double set triggers but I
did not know that I had to have a fly in the tumbler for this to work. The
lock I ordered had no fly. So of course when I finished the gun the half
cock notch caught the sear when I pulled the trigger. By this time I had
this sneaking suspicion that I needed a fly. When I called Dixie, they said
that I did not need one, that it was all "in the geometry" of how I built it
but they couldn't explain further than that. I ended up fitting a single
trigger instead. The lock sparked for about 5 shots and then quit. I sent it
back and they claimed to have rehardened the frizzen. It was good for about
another 10 shots. I sent it back again and this time they replaced the
frizzen. Since then it has worked like a charm. Would I by parts from them
again? Well, I know a lot more now than I knew then so maybe, maybe not.
Kirk Mill


    << In all of these messages, I haven't seen anyone refer to Dixie
Gun Works.
    Are they not a good company to deal with?
      >>



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:57:34 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabelas Flintlock -- Historically Accurate?

In a message dated 11/11/98 11:25:42 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<<they just don't fit into a historically correct picture at all.>>

I agree. Most of the folks I've run into with an in-line seem to be more
interested in being able to hunt in the BP season, than buckskinning or
mountain men. I fear though, with the scopes, and laser sights, our black
powder, muzzle loading hunting season, will soon be grouped into the modern
rifle gang..... bum me out.
Steve

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:35:05 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabelas Guns

>I'm curious, has ever told Cabelas that they carry/sell inferior weapons?
> That they are, esentially, unsafe?  If not, why not?

I've bought three BP revolvers from Cabelas and I never found them to be
inferior.  One has a slight imperfection in metal-to-metal fit, and I
returned it for a new one, which looks and works fine.  I have been a
satisfied Cabelas customer for some time.  If their guns are inferior, this
is the first I've heard.

HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
******  Living History . . . Because it's there!  *******

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:55:15 +0000
From: [e-mail] (RANDAL J BUBLITZ)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flinters

National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association
PO Box 67
Friendship, In 47021
E-mail  -  [e-mail]
MuzzleBlasts is the Associations Magazine, it is a part of your
membership benefits

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:52:01 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Black Powder

>I find it hard to believe that there were 4 grades of powder
>back then.
>Any ideas?
>
>Thanks for your time and thoughts.
>
>Pilgrim JD

The four grades were either developed or perfected by du Pont in the first
decade of the 19th century.  At any rate, the four grades were known by the
time of the War of 1812.  As for what to shoot, conventional wisdom says
that 2f is bewst for calibers of 45 or above, and 3f for 45 or below.
Obviously 45 is the borderline.  I shoot 2f in my .45-70 reloads and mu .45
frontstuffers, incl. my .45 CVA pistol.   My .44 and .36 revolvers get 3f,
but I have used 2f in a pinch.

I have heard of shooters getting good results from using 3f in calibers
larger than 45, so if he says he does, why not believe it.

Experiment, and do what's best for you.

HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
******  Living History . . . Because it's there!  *******

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #172
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