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hist_text-digest       Sunday, October 25 1998       Volume 01 : Number 161




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:17:50 -0600
From: "Barry Conner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: L & C Food

What John has stated is correct, I have an early printing of the full set
of journals ( 8 with maps ) and have found the same reference as John.
......dog, whale blubber, candlefish, roots and berries, hawks, ducks, and
sturgeon.... along with reference to a number of roots and edibles that
were foraged.

Buck Conner

- ----------
> From: John L. Allen <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: L & C Food
> Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 7:57 AM
>
> Hello the list,
>
> The Original Journals of Lewis and Clark (Moulton edition) include
> references to foods other than salmon and elk that the Corps of Discovery
> consumed while at Fort Clatsop on the Pacific. These included dog, whale
> blubber, candlefish, roots and berries, hawks, ducks, and sturgeon. There
is
> no mention of shellfish (clams) or crustaceans (crabs). I would suspect
that
> the Indians consumed those delicacies but that Lewis and Clark, demanding
a
> diet that contained fat, would have avoided the trouble it took to seek
out
> shellfish and crustaceans for more readily available foods. There is an
> entire chapter in a relatively recent book on the Expedition devoted to
the
> foods Lewis and Clark and their men consumed. See Albert Furtwangler,
ACTS
> OF DISCOVERY: VISIONS OF AMERICA IN THE LEWIS AND CLARK JOURNALS (Univ.
of
> Illinois Press, 1993), chapter 5.
>
> John Logan Allen
> (author of LEWIS AND CLARK AND THE IMAGES OF THE AMERICAN NORTHWEST,
Dover
> paperback, 1991).
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bz <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> Date: Wednesday, October 21, 1998 11:14 PM
> Subject: MtMan-List: L & C Food
>
>
> >Greetings to All,
> >    Been lurking on the list for awhile and enjoyed all the knowledge so
> >freely shared.
> >    Have been rereading the Journals of Lewis and Clark (DeVoto) and the
> >same question keeps popping up.
> >    During the time they were on the coast and at Fort Clatsop they
mention
> >many times the monatony of their diet of elk and salmon.
> >    Why did they not make use of the other sea food there?  I use to
live
> >in that area and even today you can gather a pretty tasty meal off the
> >shore and bay. If no one else Lewis had to be familiar with sea food
from
> >his time spent in D.C. and other east coast cities.
> >    Surely men of there proven ingenuity could have cobbled together a
> >couple of crab pots, or steamed a bushel or two of clams ect. Even
without
> >the drawn butter and lemon it would have supplied a tasty break from
their
> >boring diet.
> >     So what am I missing?
> >     Any information or opinions appreciated.
> >    Thanks
> >     Buzz
> >

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:21:07 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Roy Parker)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old CVA Pistols

On Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:17:22 -0600 (CST), you wrote:

>Friends,
>
>At a recent Civil War event I bought a muzzleloading pistol for $75.00,
>that bears a strong resemblance to the CVA mountain pistol.  The lock
>plate, nipple drum, breech plug, and barrel work are identical to my old
>CVA mountain rifle (which was made in the USA).  The pistol was =
apparently
>made in Spain  and is also marked with the name "JUKAR", along with the
>serial number 0040879.  It is not marked CVA anywhere.  Someone told me
>that CVA pistols were once made in Spain.  CVA firearms were very good =
(my
>mountain rifle is an older model with patch box, double set trigger and
>all) and I assume they still are.
>
>I am wondering if anyone knows when CVA had their guns made in Spain and=
 if
>they still do.  Can anyone give me a clue to manufacture date by the =
serial
>number?
>
>Thanks,
>HBC
>
Henry, CVA went overseas completely sometime in the very late 70's,
1980-1 at latest.  I still have my .50 Mt. Rifle I bought at a Kmart
equivilent back in 1977, and it was one of the last of the US types.
Serial number is  35xxx.  I also have a Mt. Pistol I got as a gift
back in '87.  Serial number there is 29xxx, but I'm sure it is all
made overseas.

My rifle still shoots fine, but I need to put it on the sandbags just
to see how good it will still do.  I shot 35 rounds last Saturday, and
the only misses were not due to the rifle, just the idiot holding it.
I'm either getting older, or they're makin' charcoal briquettes a lot
smaller than they did 20 years ago.  I could see them back then,
mostly.

BTW, if you haven't tried "Wonder Lube", you're missing something.
Best stuff I've seen in 20+ years of front stuffing. I just started
using it on a friend's recommendation.  Great stuff.

Roy Parker, Buckskinner, Brewer, Blacksmith and other "B"'s, including =
"BS".
1999 SW Rendezvous info available at http://www.sat.net/~robenhaus

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:36:24 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: L & C Food

In a message dated 98-10-22 10:27:09 EDT, you write:

<< There is no mention of shellfish (clams) or crustaceans (crabs). I would
suspect that the Indians consumed those delicacies but that Lewis and Clark,
demanding a
 diet that contained fat, would have avoided the trouble it took to seek out
 shellfish and crustaceans for more readily available foods. >>

I would have to check with my wife for when eating Crabs & Lobsters and Clams
became stylish in Amererica, but I do know from her research that in the
1700's in the North East they had contractural restrictions on how often you
could feed you indentured servants Lobster or Clams.  Seems this was
considered cheap, inferior, poor mans food and the servants did not want to
eat to often.  So it may not have been considered a desirable food in Lewis
and Clarks era either.

Your Humble Servant

C.T. Oakes

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 06:20:49 -0600
From: "David Tippets" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: making snowshoes

"Making the Attikamek Snowshoe," by Henri Vaillancourt is by far the most
detailed and complete description of how the Indians made snowshoes using
only tools and materials that would have been available during the fur trade
period of history.

If you want to use modern power tools and equipment this book is probably
not the one you want.  If you want to know what the mountain men learned
from the Indians about how to make showshoes -- no other book on the topic
compares to this one.

A few, but not many, libraries have it.  To purchase it, you have to contact
the Trust for Native American Cultures and Crafts at: Box 142, Greenville,
NH  03048.  Phone: [phone].


- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Friday, October 16, 1998 12:09 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: making snowshoes


>
>
>
>
>Dear Sir,
>
>I am looking around tonight for information on making my own snowshoes and
hit
>on your site.  Is it possible you can tell me how.  I would appreciate any
>help you can give me.
>Thank you,
>Georgia
>gmg9
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 20:28:38 -0500
From: [e-mail] (michael pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old CVA Pistols

haven't seen a CVa Yet that would shoot  consistant---most of them the
rifleing was poor---a cheep barrel is a cheep barrel and the barrel is
the heart of all muzzle loaders---have replace a many a CVA barrel with a
douglas or better barrel and there is no comparison in loading and
shooting.---I know i am going to upset a lot of people with the above
statements---have seen darn few CVA shooters in the winning circles
consistantly.  some bling hogs get luckey and find a acorn ever once and
a while---give me a hand cut rifleing  or a cut rifleing any time and i
will make a CVA run for cover---most cva are broached---a few of the
early ones were cut and they did shoot acceptable but not good or
consistant----just luck if you put 5 in the black at 25 yds or
better---most CVA's had to be lapped and everything else to make them
print anything consistant----TOTALLY SUGGEST YOU REPLACE THE BARREL WITH
SOMETHING THAT WILL MAKE IT SHOOT CONSISTANT----

Again i know this will cause a sture in the people that love the feel and
all of their CVA's but its my personal opinion...
=+=
hawk
michael pierce
854 glenfield dr.
palm harbor florida 34684     e-mail:   [e-mail]

On Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:21:07 GMT [e-mail] (Roy Parker)
writes:
>On Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:17:22 -0600 (CST), you wrote:
>
>>Friends,
>>
>>At a recent Civil War event I bought a muzzleloading pistol for
>$75.00,
>>that bears a strong resemblance to the CVA mountain pistol.  The lock
>>plate, nipple drum, breech plug, and barrel work are identical to my
>old
>>CVA mountain rifle (which was made in the USA).  The pistol was =
>apparently
>>made in Spain  and is also marked with the name "JUKAR", along with
>the
>>serial number 0040879.  It is not marked CVA anywhere.  Someone told
>me
>>that CVA pistols were once made in Spain.  CVA firearms were very
>good =
>(my
>>mountain rifle is an older model with patch box, double set trigger
>and
>>all) and I assume they still are.
>>
>>I am wondering if anyone knows when CVA had their guns made in Spain
>and=
> if
>>they still do.  Can anyone give me a clue to manufacture date by the
>=
>serial
>>number?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>HBC
>>
>Henry, CVA went overseas completely sometime in the very late 70's,
>1980-1 at latest.  I still have my .50 Mt. Rifle I bought at a Kmart
>equivilent back in 1977, and it was one of the last of the US types.
>Serial number is  35xxx.  I also have a Mt. Pistol I got as a gift
>back in '87.  Serial number there is 29xxx, but I'm sure it is all
>made overseas.
>
>My rifle still shoots fine, but I need to put it on the sandbags just
>to see how good it will still do.  I shot 35 rounds last Saturday, and
>the only misses were not due to the rifle, just the idiot holding it.
>I'm either getting older, or they're makin' charcoal briquettes a lot
>smaller than they did 20 years ago.  I could see them back then,
>mostly.
>
>BTW, if you haven't tried "Wonder Lube", you're missing something.
>Best stuff I've seen in 20+ years of front stuffing. I just started
>using it on a friend's recommendation.  Great stuff.
>
>Roy Parker, Buckskinner, Brewer, Blacksmith and other "B"'s, including
>=
>"BS".
>1999 SW Rendezvous info available at http://www.sat.net/~robenhaus
>
>

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------------------------------

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