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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #157 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Friday, October 16 1998 Volume 01 : Number 157 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:03:11 -0700 From: Dennis Fisher <dfisher@sbceo.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Scottish MacRaith@mail.swbell.net wrote: I am just getting started and am looking for good resource material > for the Scottish during the French Indian War & more specifically on > those that went mountain man afterwards. Any suggestions? > > I think we have a slight timing problem here. The French and Indian War was in the late 1750s and the mountain man period, at its earliest really didn't get going until after Lewis and Clark returned. Now if you were 20 years old and fighting with George Washington at Ft. Ligonier in 1758 and then helped recapture Ft. Duquesne (Ft. Pitt) from the French and Indians and then mustered out a year or so later, you would be one old mountain man by 1807. Like about 69 years old. Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 05:56:21 EDT From: GMG9@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: making snowshoes Dear Sir, I am looking around tonight for information on making my own snowshoes and hit on your site. Is it possible you can tell me how. I would appreciate any help you can give me. Thank you, Georgia gmg9 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:02:30 -0700 From: Dennis Fisher <dfisher@sbceo.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Waxing gourds Be advised to have a towel or some hot pads handy. The gourds get really hot when filled with molten parafin. To hot to hold with bare hands in most cases. Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 05:38:41 -0700 From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Scottish This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BDF7FE.113E6EA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jon read everything that you can on the HBC and you will get your fill of Scots and bagpipes, I volunteer at Ft Langley and Ft Nisqually and a weekend of pipes and Scottish bog is lasting for weeks. Later Jon T - ---------- : From: PDS Golf Course <pdscc@theriver.com> : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Scottish : Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 4:09 PM : : John, : I'd like to know more on the Scots in the Fur Trade as well. Can you keep : me up on what you find, I'll do the same. : Jon Bollin AMM #1639 : : MacRaith@mail.swbell.net wrote: : : > Hello to the list: : > : > I am just getting started and am looking for good resource material : > for the Scottish during the French Indian War & more specifically on : > those that went mountain man afterwards. Any suggestions? : > : > Also, what research I've done suggests that they'd have made cuarans : > after their shoes wore out in the mountains, but I can't find an picture : > references or patterns. Can anyone help? : > : > Thanks : > : > John David Scott : : : : - ------=_NextPart_000_01BDF7FE.113E6EA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">Jon read everything that you can on the = HBC and you will get your fill of Scots and bagpipes, I volunteer = at Ft Langley and Ft Nisqually and a weekend of pipes and Scottish bog = is lasting for weeks. Later Jon T ---------- : From: PDS = Golf Course <pdscc@theriver.com> : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Scottish : Date: = Tuesday, October 13, 1998 4:09 PM : : John, : I'd like to know = more on the Scots in the Fur Trade as well. Can you keep : me = up on what you find, I'll do the same. : Jon Bollin AMM = #1639 : : MacRaith@mail.swbell.net wrote: : : > Hello to the list: : = > : > I am just getting started and am = looking for good resource material : > for the Scottish during the = French Indian War & more specifically on : > those that went = mountain man afterwards. Any suggestions? : > : > = Also, what research I've done suggests that = they'd have made cuarans : > after their shoes wore out in the = mountains, but I can't find an picture : > references or patterns. = Can anyone help? : > : > Thanks : > : > = John David Scott : : : : </body></html> - ------=_NextPart_000_01BDF7FE.113E6EA0-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:56:38 -0600 From: "Scott Singer" <ssinger@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Antoine Robidoux >From the book "Fort Uncompahgre" by William McCrea Bailey: "Louis Robidoux, born two years after Antoine, in 1796, would be of great assistance to his brother Antoine. His deep involvement in the Santa Fe trade began with his naturalization as a Mexican citizen on the same day as his brother Antoine. The paperwork was completed in Santa Fe, July 16, 1823." Cited source for this paragraph: "Memorial to the Robidoux Brothers" by Orral Robidoux. Published by Smith Greaves, Kansas City, 1924 - ------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Singer, aka "Spinner" WWW Rendezvous Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/~wwwrendezvous Territorial Dispatch/National Association of Buckskinners Web Site http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/4833 - --------------------------------------------------------------- - -----Original Message----- From: John C Funk <j2hearts@juno.com> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 6:15 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Antoine Robidoux >NM > >Your right. I am looking for (later life) information on Louis Robidoux, >during the time frame when he relocated to California. But, any >information may lead to more details elsewhere. > >John Funk > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 23:37:21 -0700 From: "Jerry H. Wheeler" <itwhee@mcn.org> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bedroll opened up my oven and found some of the hard tack in the tray it still tasted good .ill try to give lanney keepsake biscuits to the list if i can find the recipe. we need to start makin hard tack for the winter. iron tongue Sam Keller wrote: > A trick we used to use when I was a kid (3 days before dirt). Wash > yore convas in hot water with a 1/2 cup of alum per gallon of water. > Will shrink the weave of yore canvas and make it more water repellent. > > ---"Thomas W. Roberts" <troberts@gdi.net> wrote: > > > > Making a couple bedrolls. Outer layer is 12oz canvas. Inner layer is > > cotton cloth. When laid open, size is about 60" x 90". Planning to > > stitch three sides so a wool blanket can be slipped inside for those > > cold FL nights when it dips below 70 deg. Either way, it's something > > simple to wrap up in with enough length to tuck under our feet. My > > question: Is there a (period appropriate) way to treat this thing to > > repel moisture and yet remain pliable? I've sampled wax (no good), > > linseed oil (soft until it dries two weeks later), and tung oil > (hard as > > a rock). I suppose I could Scotchgard or Duck's Back but it just > > wouldn't be right. Any thoughts? > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 00:15:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Scottish > MacRaith@mail.swbell.net wrote: > I am just getting started and am looking for good resource material > > for the Scottish during the French Indian War & more specifically on > > those that went mountain man afterwards. Any suggestions? On Tue, 13 Oct 1998, Dennis Fisher wrote: > I think we have a slight timing problem here. The French and Indian War was > in the late 1750s and the mountain man period, at its earliest really > didn't get going until after Lewis and Clark returned. Actually Dennis, your partially correct, the american Rocky Mountain Furtrade dates to after Lewis and Clark, however, the American Fur Trade dates back to Champlain in the early 1600's. The Northwest Company, which picked up the pieces of the french fur trade in the later 1700's and was chock full of Scots, as was the HBC. Regards Lee Newbill Viola, Idaho email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 07:41:10 -0400 From: "T.A. Terry" <snowcamp@emji.net> Subject: MtMan-List: plains moccasins I would like to make a pair of plains style hard sole moccasins. Any suggestions for books or articles that would describe in detail how to do this? Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:07:36 EDT From: Grantd9@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: plains moccasins The "Craft Manual of North American Indian Footwear," by George M. White is an excellent reference. It shows how to make about 25 different styles of mocassins including two patterns for the hard sole type. It is available through James Townsend and Son (www.jastown.com). Grant ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:41:22 -0700 From: Gary Farabee <hazkoch@cyberhighway.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: making snowshoes GMG9@aol.com wrote: > > Dear Sir, > > I am looking around tonight for information on making my own snowshoes and hit > on your site. Is it possible you can tell me how. I would appreciate any > help you can give me. > Thank you, > Georgia > gmg9 A book by David Montgomery titled Mountain Crafts and Skills ,published by Horizon Publishers; PO Box 490, Bountiful, Utah 84010 has directions. Pages 83 & 84. Gary ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:54:36 -0700 From: Gary Farabee <hazkoch@cyberhighway.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: plains moccasins T.A. Terry wrote: > > I would like to make a pair of plains style hard sole moccasins. Any > suggestions for books or articles that would describe in detail how to > do this? > > Thanks I don't know if this is of any help. The Apache style moc does have a harder sole than the Plains type moc. A book by David Montgomery, Mountain Crafts and Skills gives directions for them on pp 60-66. The book is published by Horizon Publishers, P.O.Box 490, Bountiful, Utah 84010. The ISbn number is 0-88290-156-7 in case a library could help. The company order number 12 1224. Gary ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 07:53:00 -0600 From: "Sickler, Louis L" <louis.l.sickler@lmco.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: plains moccasins T. A., Another good method (besides White) is found in the newer,larger edition of 'The Indian Tipi' by the Laubins. This edition has some great info that the smaller paperback does not contain for some reason. Mr. Laubin gives a concise written and illustrated method that worked well for me the first time I tried it. Believe me, some ways I've seen and tried do not result in a wearable pair of moccasins. If you can't find this book or want some other specific info, mail me off-line. Red Coyote Louis.L.Sickler@lmco.com > ---------- > From: T.A. Terry > Reply To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Sent: Friday, October 16, 1998 05:41 > To: hist_text@xmission.com > Subject: MtMan-List: plains moccasins > > I would like to make a pair of plains style hard sole moccasins. Any > suggestions for books or articles that would describe in detail how to > do this? > > Thanks > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:54:07 EDT From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: plains moccasins In a message dated 10/16/98 6:42:53 AM US Eastern Standard Time, snowcamp@emji.net writes: <> Crazy Crow sells a kit, everthing there with instructions. I got this kit first time around. Materials were not bad, but the soles were latigo not rawhide which would last longer, but they looked pretty good when done. If you get this kit and put it together first time around you will be able to just jump right in and build another pair after that. Longshot ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:10:10 -0700 From: Longtrail <ezra@midrivers.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Female fur trader of the time. >To change the subject but are there any record that anyone knows of, a female >trapper/mountain man during this era. There was an Indian woman, not sure of which tribe, who traveled from the interior down the Columbia to Fort Astoria and traded furs etc along the way. Wether she trapped I do not know. She was refered to as Man Like Woman because she, I assume from what I have read about her, was a lesbian. Lesbian or not, if she did "walk the walk" and "talk the talk" of a fur trader of the time, then she participated in the trade. She reportedly traveled to the interior ahead of some white traders and prepared the people along the way, telling them of all the whites had to offer. She frequented the fur posts of the interior and as a result of her less than European Moral conduct was sent from post to post carrying "important messages" which served only to get her out of the immediate area. She amassed much wealth before she died as well as from what I have read became a cheif of her people. Jon Towns can refer you to the book which tells of her "adventures" From journals it also seems she traveled with the David Thompson party at some point, being the woman of one of his servants. (post lesbian era?) David got so disgusted with her actions he insisted his servant send her on her way, which I believe he did. My writtings were deliberately trashed, not by myself, about a year ago and my T&LRs are all packed away in anticipation of a move which never developed. So I am afraid that my less than photographic memory fails me now and I can not be more specific. Longtrail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 05:33:24 -0700 From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: making snowshoes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BDF8C6.7E7EE3A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well I don't know who you addressed this to but you got me for one. Go to the library and look up Ben Hunt books I am not sure which book has them in it, and he had some you could build without to much trouble. Later Jon T. - ---------- : From: GMG9@aol.com : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Subject: MtMan-List: making snowshoes : Date: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 2:56 AM : : : : : : Dear Sir, : : I am looking around tonight for information on making my own snowshoes and hit : on your site. Is it possible you can tell me how. I would appreciate any : help you can give me. : Thank you, : Georgia : gmg9 : - ------=_NextPart_000_01BDF8C6.7E7EE3A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">Well I don't know who you addressed = this to but you got me for one. Go to the library and look up Ben = Hunt books I am not sure which book has them in it, and he had some you = could build without to much trouble. Later Jon T. = ---------- : From: GMG9@aol.com : To: = hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Subject: MtMan-List: making snowshoes : Date: = Wednesday, October 14, 1998 2:56 AM : : : : : : = Dear Sir, : : I am looking around tonight for information on = making my own snowshoes and hit : on your site. Is it possible = you can tell me how. I would appreciate any : help you can give = me. : Thank you, : Georgia : gmg9 : </body></html> - ------=_NextPart_000_01BDF8C6.7E7EE3A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:09:52 -0600 From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charles Courtin?? >>A quick search in _The Mountain Men and the Fur Trade of the Far West_ Volume III, Page 328, David Thompson biography, Alvin M. Josephy author, has the following quote: "In February, Thompson also noted the slaying by Blackfeet at the nearby site of present day Dixon, Montana, of an American hunter named Courter, who was probably Charles Courtin..".<< Josephy differs with an earlier guess at the identity of "Courter", so I thought I'd include some more background info. In David Thompson's _Narrative_ (Glover ed., p. 302-303), Thompson wrote: "On the evening of the 24th [Jan., 1810] the Indians informed me, that the Peeagans had attacked a hunting party, killed Mr. Courter (a trader and Hunter from the U States) and one Indian, and wounded several others...On the 26th in the afternoon [we] came to twenty one Tents of Saleesh Indians, who received us with their usual kindness; they seemed to think that the imprudence of Mr. Courter, in going on the War Grounds, with a small party to hunt the Bison and set traps for the Beaver, which were numerous, was the cause of his death; and the accidents to the Indians; during my time the Traders and Hunters from the United States were most unfortunate, there seemed to be an infatuation over them, that the Natives of the Plains were all skulkers in the woods, and never dared shew themselves on open ground, and they suffered accordingly being frequently attacked in open ground and killed by the Peeagans until none remained." In a footnote, T.C. Elliott states "The nearest approach to this name [Mr. Courter] among American trappers on the headwaters of the Missouri river at that time is that of John Colter, a member of the Lewis and Clark expedition, whose remarkable experiences are related in Chittenden, _History of the American Fur Trade_, Chapter X. Colter, however, was not actually killed by the Blackfeet. For the story of several attacks by the Blackfeet during the winter and spring of 1810 at the Three Forks of the Missouri, see Chittenden, Chapter VI, and Coues, _New Light_, p. 674, note. Here is the relevant part of Coues' very lengthy note on p. 674: "One of these [trips by David Thompson from Saleesh House], Feb. 23d to Mar. 6th, 1810, was to find rind for canoes, to trade, etc. Mousseau, Forcier, Boulard, and two Indians went with him. On this trip he learned of the death of Mr. Courter? Coaster? at Saleesh _camp_ (not at Saleesh _house_), and went to that camp to see about it." (emphasis Coues') Hope this helps--but maybe it just muddies the waters?! Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:50:18 -0400 From: Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: plains moccasins One of the best tapes on making Plains type mocs came out a year ago. It is the best I have seen on how to make good fitting foot ware. I have read all the books and seen all the articles, of which the ones published in Whispering Wind Mag. are among the best and most detailed of any of the books from Laubin to David Montgomery. Give me a call on the net and I will send information on how to get it. It is also on the Native tech sight in their Magazine section for Whispering Wind. Linda Holley Gary Farabee wrote: > T.A. Terry wrote: > > > > I would like to make a pair of plains style hard sole moccasins. Any > > suggestions for books or articles that would describe in detail how to > > do this? > > > > Thanks > I don't know if this is of any help. The Apache style moc does have a > harder sole than the Plains type moc. A book by David Montgomery, > Mountain Crafts and Skills gives directions for them on pp 60-66. The > book is published by Horizon Publishers, P.O.Box 490, Bountiful, Utah > 84010. > > The ISbn number is 0-88290-156-7 in case a library could help. The > company order number 12 1224. > Gary ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:11:13 EDT From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Reading Material Ho the list. I am planning, already, for a long wet winter here in the NW and would like a list of the top five "must read" books on Mountain Men and the Fur Trade. I've read Bridger, Osborne Russell, Bonneville, Playboy, Meek, and Parkman to mention a few.... Will be interesting to see how the "top five" develops. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:49:42 -0700 From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: plains moccasins Try " Craft Manual of North American Indian footwear" by George M. White, at "P.O. Box 365, Ronan, Montana 59864. Or any good book seller at Rendezvous and many of the Cataloge dealers in Muzzleloading. T.A. Terry wrote: > I would like to make a pair of plains style hard sole moccasins. Any > suggestions for books or articles that would describe in detail how to > do this? > > Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:26:59 -0700 From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: making snowshoes and hardening fire steels Georgia, I built a pair of snow shoes a few years ago for a friend using 'W. Ben Hunts' , "The Complete How-To Book of IndeanCraft". It is about the clearest directions I've ever seen and I'm sure if you followed the directions you could make a fine pair of snow shoes. He also has directions in the book for toboggans and other primitive winter gear like snow goggles. The webbing is the most complicated part of the process and his directions on how to string the rawhide is almost fool proof. The book is/was published by Collier Books of Macmillan Publishing Co,Inc. I don't think you should have any problem finding it. I paid $2.95 and it is probably double that now at least. For our Norwegian friend, just heat the steel to a cherry red and quench in water or oil and it should spark. Maybe some of the metallurgists on the list will have some other advice too? I remain.... YMOS Capt. Lahti' GMG9@aol.com wrote: > Dear Sir, > > I am looking around tonight for information on making my own snowshoes and hit > on your site. Is it possible you can tell me how. I would appreciate any > help you can give me. > Thank you, > Georgia > gmg9 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:46:32 -0700 From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: plains moccasins Try "Craft Manual of North American Indian Footwear" by George M. White, P.O. Box 365, Ronan, Montana 59864. I remain... YMOS Capt. Lahti' T.A. Terry wrote: > I would like to make a pair of plains style hard sole moccasins. Any > suggestions for books or articles that would describe in detail how to > do this? > > Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:04:20 -0700 From: "Gail Carbiener" <carbg@cmc.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Reading Material Steve: Two of my favorites............. 1. Broken Hand: The Life of Thomas Fitzpatrick, Mountain Man, Guide, and Indian Agent by Leroy Hafen. You can get it in paperback. It is unbelievable how many important places Fitzpatrick was in his life. I'm sure there will be arguments, but he may have been the most important American mountain man! 2. The Snake Country Expedition of 1830-1831; John Work's Field Journal. Edited by Francis Haines, Jr. published by Univ of Oklahoma Press. This is a journal of an early HBC winter brigade, lets you know how different HBC was from the Americans on the other side of the Rockies. Gail Carbiener ============================================ - -----Original Message----- From: SWcushing@aol.com <SWcushing@aol.com> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Friday, October 16, 1998 9:20 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Reading Material >Ho the list. >I am planning, already, for a long wet winter here in the NW and would like a >list of the top five "must read" books on Mountain Men and the Fur Trade. I've >read Bridger, Osborne Russell, Bonneville, Playboy, Meek, and Parkman to >mention a few.... Will be interesting to see how the "top five" develops. >Steve > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:19:01 -0700 From: Gary Bell <micropt@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: plains moccasins I ordered the Crazy Crow Northern Plains Moc. kit and I had a terrible time with interpreting their instruction sheet for creating the pattern. It produced a terribly ill fit side seam moc.. The leather looked great, a tan-gray chrome tan cowhide, will make nice mocs, I have another kit on order. I also couldn't use the tiny needle they sent (they didn't suggest an awl, but I sure would, and a star wheel to space the stitching). I had a dear friend re-create the pattern (evolved through five stages of 'improvements'), and now I have the most wonderful side seam pattern. It fits my wide foot, (with a half inch wool felt boot liner under my foot -- I'm rather a tenderfoot). It has the side seam running from inside about the first knuckle of my big toe, straight around the front and straight up the side nicely below the ankle, meeting the vertical seam, which she adjusted to run up the middle of the back, from the flap behind the heel straight up to the top. She also invested a lot of trials in getting the cut for the opening in the top to lie straight and end in the right place. In short, she invested a bunch of time fitting this, and the results are dynamite, but I don't expect many folks to happen upon the right pattern directly from the instructions, nor would I suggest that you commit your good leather to the first try on any you copy out of a book. I suggest that before you attack the leather in your Crazy Crow kit, or any other, you make a stitched together pattern of suitable fabric (or maybe skin out a couple of Nauga -- check with Hawk Pierce if you need more, he tells me that he has a ready supply), and get the rascal to fit your foot the way you want. You need to be standing straight on the floor when the pattern is fitted too, because your foot spreads out a lot when you put weight on it, so I suggest that you get someone who is experienced at fitting fabric or leather to actually make the adjustments to the pattern on your foot. The side seam appears to be the devil's own pattern at this point, with the two piece and center seam/toe pucker patterns very much easier to fit, but when done well, the side seam looks and feels absolutely terrific. I would be pleased to share a paper tracing of my pattern with any who want it. Contact me off list with a direct email, and provide a full address, and I will gladly trace my 11 1/2 EEE - with felt insole pattern, you could modify it to suit. It would make a fine starting place for the fitting session described. Grateful thanks to Ladyhawk in Idaho for working out the pattern from my clumsy attempt at the kit. YMHOS Gary Bell LODGEPOLE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/16/98 6:42:53 AM US Eastern Standard Time, > snowcamp@emji.net writes: > > < suggestions for books or articles that would describe in detail how to > do this? >> > > Crazy Crow sells a kit, everthing there with instructions. I got this kit > first time around. Materials were not bad, but the soles were latigo not > rawhide which would last longer, but they looked pretty good when done. If you > get this kit and put it together first time around you will be able to just > jump right in and build another pair after that. > > Longshot ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:23:49 EDT From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: plains moccasins In a message dated 10/16/98 12:20:53 PM US Eastern Standard Time, micropt@gte.net writes: << I ordered the Crazy Crow Northern Plains Moc. kit and I had a terrible time with interpreting their instruction sheet for creating the pattern. It produced a terribly ill fit side seam moc.. The leather looked great, a tan-gray chrome tan cowhide, will make nice mocs, -----------(stuff deleted)----------- >> Well I admit the directions took considerable thought before beginning work but mine came out great first time around. Also, the kit I oredered was not the kit with cowhide leather, thay make one that comes with the latigo for the soles and gold colored buckskin for the uppers which after a few outtings dulled to a good color. The directions show you how to make the templates which i did using light cardboard for the soles such as you find some new articles of clothing like shirts wrapped around, and typical grocery store brown paper bag for the uppers. You can save thgese for the next pair and save that part of the work the second time around. Longshot ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:44:43 -0500 From: Jeff Powers <kestrel@ticon.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Scottish On 1998-10-16 hist_text@lists.xmission.com said to kestrel@ticon.net >X-Sender: lnewbill@buzzard.csrv.uidaho.edu >> MacRaith@mail.swbell.net wrote: >> I am just getting started and am looking for good resource >>material > for the Scottish during the French Indian War & more >>specifically on > those that went mountain man afterwards. Any >suggestions? >On Tue, 13 Oct 1998, Dennis Fisher wrote: >> I think we have a slight timing problem here. The French and >>Indian War was in the late 1750s and the mountain man period, at >>its earliest really didn't get going until after Lewis and Clark >returned. >Actually Dennis, your partially correct, the american Rocky Mountain >Furtrade dates to after Lewis and Clark, however, the American Fur >Trade dates back to Champlain in the early 1600's. The Northwest >Company, which picked up the pieces of the french fur trade in the >later 1700's and was chock full of Scots, as was the HBC. "Chock full of Scots"? Booshway you mean,right? And lets not forget that the "Northwest" as it was considered then was Michigan,Wisconsin,etc. not exactly the Rocky Mountains. Before the British Victory in the F&I War I doubt that there were any Scots in the trade,except occaisional traders east of the Mississippi and not much farther north than the Ohio. The fur trade that became the era of the "Rocky Mountain Trapper" was the result of beaver being driven west and up into the mountains,after nearly 200 years of being hunted for his pelt. Now lets see what other wildlife was pushed to the west, Buffalo and Elk to name a couple. Elk and Buffalo were seen by early Jesuits as far east as what is now Green Bay,Wisconsin and possibly farther east to Detroit. Lets try to remember that the Rocky Mountain Trapper was the end of the fur trade,not the glory days that it has come to be thought of,it was the last hurrah before the porkeaters(a term much older than the mountain trapper) settled the continent. Jeff Powers,Rogue & Ne'er do Well Lots wife was a pillar of salt by day,but a ball of fire by night! Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:57:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: plains moccasins On Fri, 16 Oct 1998 Grantd9@aol.com wrote: > The "Craft Manual of North American Indian Footwear," by George M. White is an > excellent reference. Tis a good book. I just finished my wife's Salish (Flathead) sideseams and they came out great. It can be a bit confusing at first because he groups certain details that are common to all moccs in seperate sections of the book, but once you've read and understand it, it's even simple enough for this ol Army guy. Regards Lee Newbill Viola, Idaho email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:13:38 -0500 From: MacRaith@mail.swbell.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: plains moccasins Terry, You might look for Mystic Warriors of the Plains. Most of the stuff is Reservation period, but there are good line drawings of several styles The Mystic Warriors of the Plains Thomas E. Mails Mallard Press copyright 1972,1991 chapter 17; pgs 25, 210, 283, 326-356 Chases Hawks T.A. Terry wrote: > I would like to make a pair of plains style hard sole moccasins. Any > suggestions for books or articles that would describe in detail how to > do this? > > Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:28:21 -0700 From: PDS Golf Course <pdscc@theriver.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Reading Material My vote is Crow Killer, you gotta read it! Jon Bollin AMM #1639 SWcushing@aol.com wrote: > Ho the list. > I am planning, already, for a long wet winter here in the NW and would like a > list of the top five "must read" books on Mountain Men and the Fur Trade. I've > read Bridger, Osborne Russell, Bonneville, Playboy, Meek, and Parkman to > mention a few.... Will be interesting to see how the "top five" develops. > Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 21:25:36 -0400 From: "Scott Janzen" <cpt.j@erols.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: plains moccasins & Introduction TA~ Try "The Indian Tipi; it's history, construction and use" by Reginald & Gladys Laubin (University of Oklahoma Press). Not only will you learn a WHOLE lot about Tipis, he has a great recipe for sturdy, well-fitting hard sole mocs. Out in the desert (Mojave) I made the sole out of 9oz. and stitched on an extra 9oz. sole onto that - in the interest of keeping the prickly flora & fauna out of the bottoms of my feet. This has worked very well. It's also easier to fix when the second layer wears out. Since this is my first post, I'll introduce myself. I am interested in the 1810-1820 Upper Missouri/East slope fur trade and the 1820-1830 Southern Rockies/Santa Fe trade. I have been doing this for about four years. I am in the Army and was stationed in the Mojave desert for the last three years and now find myself in Northern Virginia for the next year or so. Lots of F&I war and Revolutionary folks here, but I haven't found any Western Mountain Man types to hang out with. If any of you all are in the area, please contact me offline. I haven't stayed in one place long enough to begin the AMM process, but eventually would like to. My introduction to AMM was from the most generous and helpful Jerry Zaslow, who held my hand through my first 'vous in Sespe, CA. Many Thanks, Jerry. I've been resident on Bob Spencer's Muzzleloader Mailing list for about three years. I've also been reading Dean Rudy's page for about that long (Thanks, Dean - yoeman's work there!). Finally decided to sign up on this list to find some kindred spirits out my way. I go by 'Kid' (just Kid), my name is Scott Janzen. Jerry can explain why Kid if necessary! <G> Kid! - -----Original Message----- From: T.A. Terry <snowcamp@emji.net> >I would like to make a pair of plains style hard sole moccasins. Any >suggestions for books or articles that would describe in detail how to >do this? ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #157 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.