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hist_text-digest       Sunday, October 18 1998       Volume 01 : Number 158




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 19:39:24 -0700
From: "Jerry H. Wheeler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: plains moccasins

please send me info    iron tongue

Linda Holley wrote:

> One of the best tapes on making Plains type mocs came out a year ago.  It is
> the best I have seen on how to make good fitting foot ware.  I have read all
> the books and seen all the articles, of which the ones published in
> Whispering  Wind Mag. are among the best and most detailed of any of the
> books from Laubin to David Montgomery.  Give me a call on the net and I will
> send information on how to get it.  It is also on the Native tech sight in
> their Magazine section for Whispering Wind.
>
> Linda Holley
>
> Gary Farabee wrote:
>
> > T.A. Terry wrote:
> > >
> > > I would like to make a pair of plains style hard sole moccasins.  Any
> > > suggestions for books or articles that would describe in detail how to
> > > do this?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > I don't know if this is of any help. The Apache style moc does have a
> > harder sole than the Plains type moc. A book by David Montgomery,
> > Mountain Crafts and Skills gives directions for them on pp 60-66. The
> > book is published by Horizon Publishers, P.O.Box 490, Bountiful, Utah
> > 84010.
> >
> > The ISbn number is 0-88290-156-7 in case a library could help. The
> > company order number 12 1224.
> > Gary

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 19:52:05 -0700
From: "Jerry H. Wheeler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Reading Material

men to match my mountains       by riving stone
  the opening of the far west,1840-1900

bring me men to match my mountains,
bring me men to match my plains,
men with empires in their purpose
and new eras in their brains.
                                   sam foss

Gail Carbiener wrote:

> Steve:
>     Two of my favorites.............
> 1.    Broken Hand: The Life of Thomas Fitzpatrick, Mountain Man, Guide, and
> Indian Agent by Leroy Hafen. You can get it in paperback. It is unbelievable
> how many important places Fitzpatrick was in his life. I'm sure there will
> be arguments, but he may have been the most important American mountain man!
> 2.    The Snake Country Expedition of 1830-1831; John Work's Field Journal.
> Edited by Francis Haines, Jr. published by Univ of Oklahoma Press. This is a
> journal of an early HBC winter brigade, lets you know how different HBC was
> from the Americans on the other side of the Rockies.
> Gail Carbiener
> ============================================
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> Date: Friday, October 16, 1998 9:20 AM
> Subject: MtMan-List: Reading Material
>
> >Ho the list.
> >I am planning, already, for a long wet winter here in the NW and would like
> a
> >list of the top five "must read" books on Mountain Men and the Fur Trade.
> I've
> >read Bridger, Osborne Russell, Bonneville, Playboy, Meek, and Parkman to
> >mention a few.... Will be interesting to see how the "top five" develops.
> >Steve
> >

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:08:01 -0700
From: Dennis Fisher <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Scottish

Lee Newbill wrote:

> > [e-mail] wrote:
> >    I am just getting started and am looking for good resource material
> > > for the Scottish during the French Indian War & more specifically on
> > > those that went mountain man afterwards.  Any suggestions?
>
> Actually Dennis, your partially correct, the american Rocky Mountain
> Furtrade dates to after Lewis and Clark, however, the American Fur Trade
> dates back to Champlain in the early 1600's.  The Northwest Company, which
> picked up the pieces of the french fur trade in the later 1700's and was
> chock full of Scots, as was the HBC.
>

I know how far back the fur trade goes on this continent but when you said "went
mountain man" I assumed you were using the term to mean those trappers who went to
the Rocky Mountains.  Since this list is devoted primarily to Mountain Men of the
Rocky Mountain fur trade I guess I jumped to conclusions a little too quick.  All
that being said, I never heard of fur trappers who worked the Great Lakes area,
Hudson's Bay, or even the Canadian Rockies for the HBC or the NWC referred to as
mountain men.  Maybe Angela has some source material on the subject.

                     Dennis

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 22:10:09 -0600
From: Dean Rudy <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Fwd: Ceran St. Vrain

>From: "Karmalee & Stanton Le Sieur" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>,
>    <[e-mail]>,
>    <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Ceran St. Vrain
>Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:47:53 -0700
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4
>
>I am interested in this message I found while browsing the net.  I am a
>descendant in the Saint Vrain Family and desire to know more about the
>family origins and genealogy.
>
>I have a source on the history of the Saint Vrain and De Lassus family
>written by a Paul Augustus St. Vrain many years ago.  I would like to share
>information with persons interested and who can also help me.
>
>Does this book have such information?  Who compiled this book?  Who is
>interested and why?  Please let me know.  My phone if interested is
>503-524-3042.  or email.
>
>Thanks
>
>[e-mail]
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 13:42:22 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Reading Material

In a message dated 98-10-16 12:24:02 EDT, you write:

<<  I've read Bridger, Osborne Russell, Bonneville, Playboy, Meek, and Parkman
to
 mention a few... >>

Uh ---- who was publishing Playboy in the 1830's????  I know Hef is getting up
there, but don't think he's quite THAT old.  Were the pin-ups real beaver??
]8>


Seriously, Eckert's books, though a bit early in setting are good reading.
Good insight to what happened before the Rockies became popular.  They are
fictionalized, but he's done his research.  Lavender & Legg both have good
books on Bent's Fort though Legg's book is based on Lavender's work & has a
few mistakes.  Any of the Hafen collection are good reading.

NM

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 22:12:51 -0700
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Scottish

> Jeff,

Most of what you wrote in this post is right on the money but lest any of the
newer members get confused, may I clarify that contrary to how you worded it
below, the beaver were not "driven west and up into the mountains" but were
there all along. The elk and buffalo were on the plains and in the 'Rockies'
long before the white man set foot on this continent. As you say, there were all
these animals in the eastern part of the continent too, but they were "hunted
out" and the hunter was forced to move west to find new populations of game and
fur bearing animals. Sorry.  I remain...

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

> . The fur trade
> that became the era of the "Rocky Mountain Trapper" was the result of beaver
> being driven west and up into the mountains,after nearly 200 years of being
> hunted for his pelt. Now lets see what other wildlife was pushed to the
> west, Buffalo and Elk to name a couple. Elk and Buffalo were seen by early
> Jesuits as far east as what is now Green Bay,Wisconsin and possibly farther
> east to Detroit. Lets try to remember that the Rocky Mountain Trapper was
> the end of the fur trade,not the glory days that it has come to be thought
> of,it was the last hurrah before the porkeaters(a term much older than the
> mountain trapper) settled the continent.
> Jeff Powers,Rogue & Ne'er do Well
>
> Lots wife was a pillar of salt by day,but a ball of fire by night!
>
> Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 07:19:30 -0500
From: Jeff Powers <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Scottish

Your rewording  of it does clarify things,Thanks! The misconception that the
Mountain Man Era was the fur trade tends to get on my nerves,my ancestors
were employed in the trade when Grand Portage was in its heyday and go so
far back I think they were here before Colombus(Grin).
On 1998-10-16 [e-mail] said to [e-mail]
   >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I)
   >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
   >Sender: [e-mail]
   >Precedence: bulk
   >X-UIDL: 2db2d34b24cbdad05400f0c8481d854f
   >> Jeff,
   >Most of what you wrote in this post is right on the money but lest
   >any of the newer members get confused, may I clarify that contrary
   >to how you worded it below, the beaver were not "driven west and up
   >into the mountains" but were there all along. The elk and buffalo
   >were on the plains and in the 'Rockies' long before the white man
   >set foot on this continent. As you say, there were all these
   >animals in the eastern part of the continent too, but they were
   >"hunted out" and the hunter was forced to move west to find new
   >populations of game and fur bearing animals. Sorry.  I remain...
   >YMOS
   >Capt. Lahti'
   >> . The fur trade
   >> that became the era of the "Rocky Mountain Trapper" was the
   >>result of beaver  being driven west and up into the mountains,
   >>after nearly 200 years of being  hunted for his pelt. Now lets see
   >>what other wildlife was pushed to the  west, Buffalo and Elk to
   >>name a couple. Elk and Buffalo were seen by early  Jesuits as far
   >>east as what is now Green Bay,Wisconsin and possibly farther  east
   >>to Detroit. Lets try to remember that the Rocky Mountain Trapper
   >>was  the end of the fur trade,not the glory days that it has come
   >>to be thought  of,it was the last hurrah before the porkeaters(a
   >>term much older than the  mountain trapper) settled the continent.
   >Jeff Powers,Rogue & Ne'er do Well >
   >> Lots wife was a pillar of salt by day,but a ball of fire by night!
   >> Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive

Jeff Powers,Rogue & Ne'er do Well

SOUFLE,SOUFLE, La Vielle

Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 23:20:01 -0600
From: "Ron" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Tinning

Hello the list!

How would I go about tinning a copper pot? Where can I buy cubes of tin?

Also does anyone recall running across the name 'Chamberlain' amongst the
many journals of trappers?

Thanks, Ron

     \|/
     / \
   /     \
 /    0   \ Lonewolf

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 01:16:59 -0400
From: David Card <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: The Great Beaver Migration

Well put Captain.  I'm glad someone clarified the point.  I did crack a s=
mile
at the thought of herds of panic-stricken beavers darkening the prairie, =
as =

they made their way toward the safety of the mountains...
And one can imagine the relief of the plains tribes when the elk and biso=
n =

finally showed up, after eating nothing but migrating beaver for so long.=




> Jeff,

Most of what you wrote in this post is right on the money but lest any of=
 the
newer members get confused, may I clarify that contrary to how you worded=
 it
below, the beaver were not "driven west and up into the mountains" but we=
re
there all along. The elk and buffalo were on the plains and in the 'Rocki=
es'
long before the white man set foot on this continent. As you say, there w=
ere all
these animals in the eastern part of the continent too, but they were "hu=
nted
out" and the hunter was forced to move west to find new populations of ga=
me and
fur bearing animals. Sorry.  I remain...

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

> . The fur trade
> that became the era of the "Rocky Mountain Trapper" was the result of b=
eaver
> being driven west and up into the mountains,after nearly 200 years of b=
eing
> hunted for his pelt. Now lets see what other wildlife was pushed to the=

> west, Buffalo and Elk to name a couple. Elk and Buffalo were seen by ea=
rly

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 22:05:34 -0500
From: "Carpenter's" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Scottish

Dear the list:

Beavers are alive and well in The San Bernardino Range of  So. California.  I would
like to see the California Department of Fish and Game transplant more of them here,
to create more habitat for other game animals and for the forest, in general.
Beavers are very good habitat creators.  They can also be pests, sometimes damming
up steams in the wrong places, etc.  They also have great pelts, in season.
Unfortunately, Proposition 4, out here on the left coast, is probably going to
pass.  Meaning, we won't be able, legally, to trap with leg hold traps.

I hope we all vote.

Carp

Roger Lahti wrote:

> > Jeff,
>
> Most of what you wrote in this post is right on the money but lest any of the
> newer members get confused, may I clarify that contrary to how you worded it
> below, the beaver were not "driven west and up into the mountains" but were
> there all along. The elk and buffalo were on the plains and in the 'Rockies'
> long before the white man set foot on this continent. As you say, there were all
> these animals in the eastern part of the continent too, but they were "hunted
> out" and the hunter was forced to move west to find new populations of game and
> fur bearing animals. Sorry.  I remain...
>
> YMOS
> Capt. Lahti'
>
> > . The fur trade
> > that became the era of the "Rocky Mountain Trapper" was the result of beaver
> > being driven west and up into the mountains,after nearly 200 years of being
> > hunted for his pelt. Now lets see what other wildlife was pushed to the
> > west, Buffalo and Elk to name a couple. Elk and Buffalo were seen by early
> > Jesuits as far east as what is now Green Bay,Wisconsin and possibly farther
> > east to Detroit. Lets try to remember that the Rocky Mountain Trapper was
> > the end of the fur trade,not the glory days that it has come to be thought
> > of,it was the last hurrah before the porkeaters(a term much older than the
> > mountain trapper) settled the continent.
> > Jeff Powers,Rogue & Ne'er do Well
> >
> > Lots wife was a pillar of salt by day,but a ball of fire by night!
> >
> > Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 19:24:26 -0600
From: "Barry Conner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tinning

Ron,

Try Goose Bay Workshops, Pete Gobel is very helpful and I'm sure he can
help you out on your tinning of copper. Phone [phone]   FAX
540-456-6990.

Good Luck

Buck Conner
dba/ Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
      "Uno qui=E9n negocia" =20
        [ One who trades ]

- ----------
> From: Ron <[e-mail]>
> To: MtMan-list <[e-mail]>
> Subject: MtMan-List: Tinning
> Date: Saturday, October 17, 1998 11:20 PM
>=20
> Hello the list!
>=20
> How would I go about tinning a copper pot? Where can I buy cubes of tin=
?
>=20
> Also does anyone recall running across the name 'Chamberlain' amongst t=
he
> many journals of trappers?
>=20
> Thanks, Ron
>=20
>      \|/
>      / \
>    /     \
>  /    0   \ Lonewolf

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #158
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