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hist_text-digest      Tuesday, September 29 1998      Volume 01 : Number 148




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:29:48 -0600
From: "Barry Conner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest

Hold it guys,

What about the three pouches at the Colorado Historical Society, Marino
Medina's, Kit Carson's, and Tom Tobin's. How about the pouches at the
Museum of the Fur trade, also shown in the "Mountain Man's Sketchbook",
Volume Two. At the Western Museum in Durango is another of Tom Tobin's
pouches along with his coat shown in "Mountain Man's Sketchbook", Volume
One. Look at Madison Grant's "Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch" book several of
those styles can be seen at the Cody Museum, as well as other smaller
museums around the country from the very early 1800's to 1850.

There's a number of books that touch on the subject, so I'm lost on entries
for your contest, when all one has to do is look around. I personally have
a good small pistol pouch from the 1830-1850 in style according to the late
Charles E. Hanson, Jr. We never thought much of it as both of us have
passed on several that sellers have good paperwork on but the prices were
too high.

To document such an item is a little time and effort, look at the trade gun
lots of articles but nothing on the internet, I talked to Charley and now
we have a good site for information that is documented.
See : http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html

Same could be done on the pouch as well as other items of this period, with
a little work. I would do it but am putting together another site for
period travel, equipage, sources and misc. trail information, as well as
changing business page at : http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/

When time allows after the first of the year maybe we could all get
involved in gathering information on pouches, etc. and build another
website.

Buck

- ----------
> From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest
> Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 4:01 PM
>
> Washtahay-
>     first off, let me apologize for the delay in getting back to this.  As
far
> as I have heard, we had NO entries.  I don't think anyone really expected
> any.  Obviously, this doesn't mean all of the fur traders, trappers, and
> n'er-do-wells were running around without a hunting pouch--it just goes
to
> show how hard it can be to document something we KNOW was in common use.

>     Ah, well...
> LongWalker c. du B.
> At 09:49 AM 8/14/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >Washtahay-
> >    We have our judges-John Kramer, Hawk, and myself (LongWalker c. du B).
> >The prize pool has grown to a rum horn, horn cup, a pre-1840 large cent,
> >and a hand made turkey call.  Here are the rules:
> >    We want to locate an original hunting pouch that we can document as
having
> >been in use on the frontier in the years 1825 to 1835, with the target
date
> >of 1830.  Here are the criteria the bag must meet:
> >    "Frontier" is defined as Rocky Mountains, Santa Fe trade, Texas, or the
> >Missouri River trade.  We should probably include bags in use in the St
> >Louis area and west within Missouri.  While I would love to hear about
the
> >bags in use in the North during this time, that isn't the target area.
> >    "Document" is defined as being able to objectively date as having been
in
> >use in the area defined as "Frontier".  By objectively, I mean by
> >contemporary records or a chain of evidence.  The assignment of dates,
for
> >example Madison Grant's "ca 1820-1840" does NOT count, unless supported
by
> >other available information (an example being the bag he shows on pp
74-75
> >of KRHP).  If you can come up with a bag that went with the supply
trains
> >to Rendezvous, great!  But the bag used by some famous mountain man in
the
> >late 1850s isn't what we are looking for.
> >    The bag must be published or accessible to the public.  The folks on
the
> >list must have some way of accessing the bag, to examine and evaluate it
> >for their own purposes.  Be prepared to furnish supporting
documentation.
> >    If you find the bag, submit the information to me directly, or to the
> >list.  If you get in under the deadline with preliminary information and
it
> >takes a while for the judges' committee to reach a decision, you still
win
> >if we can agree the bag meets the criteria.
> >    Deadline for submission is 7 September 1998.
> >
> >Let the hunt begin!
> >
> >LongWalker c. du B., tilter at windmills, and occasional champion of
lost
> >causes
> >
> >
> >
> >

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:40:20 -0600
From: "Barry Conner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: vermillion, bed rolls

Allen,

Do you still have your big boat?

Buck

- ----------
> From: Allen Chronister <[e-mail]>
> To: chat <[e-mail]>
> Subject: MtMan-List: vermillion, bed rolls
> Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 2:04 AM
>
> On bed rolls:  My current favorite bedding, at
> least when I have to carry it all myself, is a
> pair of 3 point blankets.
> Wes Housler sells un-torn pairs of 3-point
> blankets that are woven in Europe.  They are just
> about the 19th century 3-point size: two complete
> blankets woven in one piece end to end, just like
> in the old days. The blanket material is thick and
> high quality.  Come in white with black stripe at
> each end or red with same.  This is the first time
> that un-torn pairs have been available in many
> many years, and in the most common 19th century
> white w/ black bars pattern.  Fold them in half so
> that you have two thicknesses, then in half again
> on the long side.  You then have a nice blanket
> envelope and you can put any number of layers
> above or below you.
>
> On vermillion, don't know what else to add, Joe,
> that hasn't been stated about what vermillion is.
> It has not been available in this country for a
> long time because of its toxicity.  For a quick
> reference on vermillion in the trade see Hanson,
> Charles.  "A Paper of Vermilion."  Mus. Fur Trade
> Quarterly, Vol. 7 No. 3 (Fall 1971):  Phillips,
> E.M.  "The Long Story of Vermilion in the Fur
> Trade."  Mus. Fur Trade Quarterly Vol. 31 No. 1
> (Spring 1995).  An interesting aspect of the trade
> was how it was shipped, in a variety of
> containers, the most familiar being "papers" or
> small folded paper packets.  Also, however, an
> apparently common packing was in small leather
> pouches in 1/4 lb. lots.
> Allen Chronister

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:49:54 -0400
From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest

They had a few examples at the MFT in Cadron when I was there... I may have
gotten a pix of it... will look...

Addison Miller
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest


>Washtahay-
> first off, let me apologize for the delay in getting back to this.  As far
>as I have heard, we had NO entries.  I don't think anyone really expected
>any.  Obviously, this doesn't mean all of the fur traders, trappers, and
>n'er-do-wells were running around without a hunting pouch--it just goes to
>show how hard it can be to document something we KNOW was in common use.
> Ah, well...
>LongWalker c. du B.
>At 09:49 AM 8/14/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>Washtahay-
>> We have our judges-John Kramer, Hawk, and myself (LongWalker c. du B).
>>The prize pool has grown to a rum horn, horn cup, a pre-1840 large cent,
>>and a hand made turkey call.  Here are the rules:
>> We want to locate an original hunting pouch that we can document as
having
>>been in use on the frontier in the years 1825 to 1835, with the target
date
>>of 1830.  Here are the criteria the bag must meet:
>> "Frontier" is defined as Rocky Mountains, Santa Fe trade, Texas, or the
>>Missouri River trade.  We should probably include bags in use in the St
>>Louis area and west within Missouri.  While I would love to hear about the
>>bags in use in the North during this time, that isn't the target area.
>> "Document" is defined as being able to objectively date as having been in
>>use in the area defined as "Frontier".  By objectively, I mean by
>>contemporary records or a chain of evidence.  The assignment of dates, for
>>example Madison Grant's "ca 1820-1840" does NOT count, unless supported by
>>other available information (an example being the bag he shows on pp 74-75
>>of KRHP).  If you can come up with a bag that went with the supply trains
>>to Rendezvous, great!  But the bag used by some famous mountain man in the
>>late 1850s isn't what we are looking for.
>> The bag must be published or accessible to the public.  The folks on the
>>list must have some way of accessing the bag, to examine and evaluate it
>>for their own purposes.  Be prepared to furnish supporting documentation.
>> If you find the bag, submit the information to me directly, or to the
>>list.  If you get in under the deadline with preliminary information and
it
>>takes a while for the judges' committee to reach a decision, you still win
>>if we can agree the bag meets the criteria.
>> Deadline for submission is 7 September 1998.
>>
>>Let the hunt begin!
>>
>>LongWalker c. du B., tilter at windmills, and occasional champion of lost
>>causes
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 00:42:21 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest

I can give photoes of docvumented bags but was holding off to get the
real people to provide input==what is wrong with this picture---will post
the pictures later this week---hopefully if anyone wants copies will send
them direct---I was suposto be a judge---not a entrant---

come on guys lets get the photoes and documentation in----I know i am not
the only person who can document a period shooting bag


      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:01:47 -0500 Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
writes:
>Washtahay-
>    first off, let me apologize for the delay in getting back to
>this.  As far
>as I have heard, we had NO entries.  I don't think anyone really
>expected
>any.  Obviously, this doesn't mean all of the fur traders, trappers,
>and
>n'er-do-wells were running around without a hunting pouch--it just
>goes to
>show how hard it can be to document something we KNOW was in common
>use.
>    Ah, well...
>LongWalker c. du B.
>At 09:49 AM 8/14/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>Washtahay-
>>    We have our judges-John Kramer, Hawk, and myself (LongWalker
>c. du B).
>>The prize pool has grown to a rum horn, horn cup, a pre-1840 large
>cent,
>>and a hand made turkey call.  Here are the rules:
>>    We want to locate an original hunting pouch that we can
>document as having
>>been in use on the frontier in the years 1825 to 1835, with the
>target date
>>of 1830.  Here are the criteria the bag must meet:
>>    "Frontier" is defined as Rocky Mountains, Santa Fe trade,
>Texas, or the
>>Missouri River trade.  We should probably include bags in use in the
>St
>>Louis area and west within Missouri.  While I would love to hear
>about the
>>bags in use in the North during this time, that isn't the target
>area.
>>    "Document" is defined as being able to objectively date as
>having been in
>>use in the area defined as "Frontier".  By objectively, I mean by
>>contemporary records or a chain of evidence.  The assignment of
>dates, for
>>example Madison Grant's "ca 1820-1840" does NOT count, unless
>supported by
>>other available information (an example being the bag he shows on pp
>74-75
>>of KRHP).  If you can come up with a bag that went with the supply
>trains
>>to Rendezvous, great!  But the bag used by some famous mountain man
>in the
>>late 1850s isn't what we are looking for.
>>    The bag must be published or accessible to the public.  The
>folks on the
>>list must have some way of accessing the bag, to examine and evaluate
>it
>>for their own purposes.  Be prepared to furnish supporting
>documentation.
>>    If you find the bag, submit the information to me directly,
>or to the
>>list.  If you get in under the deadline with preliminary information
>and it
>>takes a while for the judges' committee to reach a decision, you
>still win
>>if we can agree the bag meets the criteria.
>>    Deadline for submission is 7 September 1998.
>>
>>Let the hunt begin!
>>
>>LongWalker c. du B., tilter at windmills, and occasional champion of
>lost
>>causes
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:50:21 -0500
From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest

Washtahay-
At 09:29 PM 9/28/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Hold it guys,
    NONE of the pouches you mention meet the criteria.  As originally set up,
those criteria were:
    "Frontier" is defined as Rocky Mountains, Santa Fe trade, Texas, or the
Missouri River trade.  We should probably include bags in use in the St
Louis area and west within Missouri.  While I would love to hear about the
bags in use in the North during this time, that isn't the target area.
    "Document" is defined as being able to objectively date as having been in
use in the area defined as "Frontier".  By objectively, I mean by
contemporary records or a chain of evidence.  The assignment of dates, for
example Madison Grant's "ca 1820-1840" does NOT count, unless supported by
other available information (an example being the bag he shows on pp 74-75
of KRHP).  If you can come up with a bag that went with the supply trains
to Rendezvous, great!  But the bag used by some famous mountain man in the
late 1850s isn't what we are looking for.
    Bags "from 1830-1850 in style", bags "assigned" dates due to stylistic
details, bags WITHOUT contemporary records or a solid chain of evidence do
not qualify.  Read the criteria.  Without evidence, the bag doesn't
qualify.  We are not talking "styles" here, we are talking actual pouches.

>What about
<snip>
> from the very early 1800's to 1850.
    Buck, I have examined the documentation of every pouch you cite
specifically .  NONE of them meet the criteria above.
>There's a number of books that touch on the subject, so I'm lost on entries
>for your contest, when all one has to do is look around. I personally have
>a good small pistol pouch from the 1830-1850 in style according to the late
>Charles E. Hanson, Jr. We never thought much of it as both of us have
>passed on several that sellers have good paperwork on but the prices were
>too high.
    FWIW, the last letter I got from Charles on this subject was a couple
years ago, right before the big hoopla at the MFT.  At that time, he said
he was still unaware of any hunting pouch that would meet these criteria.
>
>To document such an item is a little time and effort, look at the trade gun
    Buck, that was the goal.  To document a pouch that was IN the Rocky
Mountains, during the 1825-1835 time period.  Not a pouch from that time
used back east, not a pouch that "MIGHT" have been there-one we can PROVE
was there.  If you can do it, go for it.

And Addison Miller wrote:
>They had a few examples at the MFT in Cadron when I was there... I may have
>gotten a pix of it... will look...
    They have examples of bags that, stylistically, might have been in use in
the Rockies during the time in question.  Have they found any objective
proof that any of THOSE particular bags were in use in the Rockies during
the time in question?  As of 96, they hadn't.
LongWalker c. du B.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:45:55 -0700
From: "Jerry H. Wheeler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest

hawk went shooting last sun. couldnt hit nothing.bore on rifel was crusted
after a few shots near the end of muzzel had a hard time getting a ball down
first few inchea then smooth from there on.i know you are a fan of 3f  so im
going to try it was shooting 2f at 65 in a 45 swamp douglas barrel. patch was
well lubed what the heck?   iron tongue

Michael Pierce wrote:

> I can give photoes of docvumented bags but was holding off to get the
> real people to provide input==what is wrong with this picture---will post
> the pictures later this week---hopefully if anyone wants copies will send
> them direct---I was suposto be a judge---not a entrant---
>
> come on guys lets get the photoes and documentation in----I know i am not
> the only person who can document a period shooting bag
>
>
>       "Hawk"
> Michael Pierce
> 854 Glenfield Dr.
> Palm Harbor, florida   34684
> 1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]
>
> On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:01:47 -0500 Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
> writes:
> >Washtahay-
> >       first off, let me apologize for the delay in getting back to
> >this.  As far
> >as I have heard, we had NO entries.  I don't think anyone really
> >expected
> >any.  Obviously, this doesn't mean all of the fur traders, trappers,
> >and
> >n'er-do-wells were running around without a hunting pouch--it just
> >goes to
> >show how hard it can be to document something we KNOW was in common
> >use.
> >       Ah, well...
> >LongWalker c. du B.
> >At 09:49 AM 8/14/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >>Washtahay-
> >>      We have our judges-John Kramer, Hawk, and myself (LongWalker
> >c. du B).
> >>The prize pool has grown to a rum horn, horn cup, a pre-1840 large
> >cent,
> >>and a hand made turkey call.  Here are the rules:
> >>      We want to locate an original hunting pouch that we can
> >document as having
> >>been in use on the frontier in the years 1825 to 1835, with the
> >target date
> >>of 1830.  Here are the criteria the bag must meet:
> >>      "Frontier" is defined as Rocky Mountains, Santa Fe trade,
> >Texas, or the
> >>Missouri River trade.  We should probably include bags in use in the
> >St
> >>Louis area and west within Missouri.  While I would love to hear
> >about the
> >>bags in use in the North during this time, that isn't the target
> >area.
> >>      "Document" is defined as being able to objectively date as
> >having been in
> >>use in the area defined as "Frontier".  By objectively, I mean by
> >>contemporary records or a chain of evidence.  The assignment of
> >dates, for
> >>example Madison Grant's "ca 1820-1840" does NOT count, unless
> >supported by
> >>other available information (an example being the bag he shows on pp
> >74-75
> >>of KRHP).  If you can come up with a bag that went with the supply
> >trains
> >>to Rendezvous, great!  But the bag used by some famous mountain man
> >in the
> >>late 1850s isn't what we are looking for.
> >>      The bag must be published or accessible to the public.  The
> >folks on the
> >>list must have some way of accessing the bag, to examine and evaluate
> >it
> >>for their own purposes.  Be prepared to furnish supporting
> >documentation.
> >>      If you find the bag, submit the information to me directly,
> >or to the
> >>list.  If you get in under the deadline with preliminary information
> >and it
> >>takes a while for the judges' committee to reach a decision, you
> >still win
> >>if we can agree the bag meets the criteria.
> >>      Deadline for submission is 7 September 1998.
> >>
> >>Let the hunt begin!
> >>
> >>LongWalker c. du B., tilter at windmills, and occasional champion of
> >lost
> >>causes
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 01:07:33 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old gun barrels

had many a good teacher---the young crowd needs to learnb the technique
of how to listen and what is common sense---sorry if my posting was a bit
crass---but have turned intop0 a real bear the last few years with the
over-educated idiots trying to tell me how i should restore a weopen---i
still do it the old way and it is always wuality---if i cant restore one
that will be quality and appropriate to period i usually tell people to
take it somewhere else---it doesnt heasrt my feelings to have someone do
a restoration project=---I am slow and meticulus in my work and will only
do it the old ways that i have researched for over 40 years---i like my
work and only advertise by word of mouth---have never had a dissatisfied
customer but again ---if you don't like the time it takes me to do a job
- ---take it to someone else-it won't heart my feelings---I have gotten
quite hard in my old age---but also have learned what quality ofr
workmanship and restoration skill is---sometimes it's several months just
to find out where and who made a gun---the problem is to obtain the
attitude and the skill of the original builder---i accepted a gun here
about a year ago---it was made of beech wood very tight grain and small
fleck---obviously a english gun---couldnt get wood---spent over 100
trying to get 2 chuncks of wood that I could use---noo avail---then the
owner got mad and said when will i get my gun---I sent him a note and
said as soon as i can ship it---no work was started and it will neber be
restored by me---enclosed please fins a listing of about 14 or 15 people
that do restoration ---contact them if you want the work accomplished---I
cannot be held to a exact time span to get your work accomplished---

this seems to be a independent attidude but is not it is a person that
will not compromise the craftsmanship to do proper and true
restoration---most people that look at my work cannot see where i have
made changes ot fixed an original---THIS TAKES A LOT OF TIME AND SKILL---
a lot of people do not want this or even care---only believe in
function---just finishing up a h/e. leman---only starteed with a piece of
a but plate--made everything else==wish i was the original craftsman---he
was good and did a exceptional job---sorry for the verbose BS-- but i
sometimes get quite outspoken on the subject of restotation---

NOTE I DID NOT TAKE OFFENSE IN WHAT YOU SAID ---IT EVEN SOUNDED LIKE A
COMPLEMENT IN SOME SENSES---
      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:25:10 -0500 "yellow rose/pendleton"
<[e-mail]> writes:
>Hawk,
>  I sure wasn't trying to tell you how to do your business. Just
>thought
>that story was worth relating. Old Wally and March Coover started
>playing
>with muzzle loaders shortly after World War II. At that time they
>could not
>get new barrels, so they had to use and sometimes rework old original
>barrels. Surprising enough many of their barrels came from the scrap
>yard.
>They have told me that many times they would buy a rifle [ which at
>that
>time could be bought for only a few dollars] just to get a useable
>nipple
>since they did not have the equipment to make them and no one was
>marketing
>such goods. Many of those old barrels were still loaded and the one I
>was
>refering to went off even tho it had spent years in a scrap yard out
>in the
>weather.
>  These two gentlemen have been a absolute wealth of information for
>many
>of us in the North Texas area. They worked partime for a antique gun
>dealer
>in Dallas begining in the early sixties, restoring guns. Consequently
>they
>have handled more original guns over the years than most of us will
>ever
>see in a lifetime. There is hardly a style of gun you can mention that
>one
>of them has not seen up close. Sadly March Coover passed away earlier
>this
>year. He will be sorely missed.
>  I do envy you sir. I dearly wish I had the skill and the opportunity
>to
>the work that you apparently do.
>Pendleton
>----------
>> From: Michael Pierce <[e-mail]>
>> To: [e-mail]
>> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old gun barrels
>> Date: Sunday, September 27, 1998 10:22 PM
>>
>> bud---
>> i never check a gun that way--i always check for the length the
>ramrod
>> goes down the barrel---if it isnt the same length as the end of the
>> barrel to the breach or the drum then i consider it loaded---I
>restore 15
>> to 20 guns a year and i get about 1/2 of them in the shop that are
>> loaded--so i fully understand and know the problem---even got one in
>from
>> a customer that took it hunting and left it loaded for over 2
>years---I
>> popped the breach and wal''llla there was powder and ball---luckey i
>> didn't use heat---now i consider all of them loaded until i can get
>air
>> out of the nipple or the drum----
>>       "Hawk"
>> Michael Pierce
>> 854 Glenfield Dr.
>> Palm Harbor, florida   34684
>> 1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]
>>
>> On Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:02:14 -0500 "yellow rose/pendleton"
>> <[e-mail]> writes:
>> >Hawk,
>> > I've been off line for a while so this post is a little late
>coming,
>> >but
>> >here it is. Always check old gun barrels to see if they are loaded.
>> >Dropping a steel rod down the bore to listen for a clink to
>determine
>> >if it
>> >is loaded is not always a sure thing. I won't go through the whole
>> >story,
>> >but I know of one case where a barrel was loaded with a ball
>bearing.
>> >The
>> >man was going to remove the breech plug, it did not want to give up
>so
>> >he
>> >dropped a steel rod down the bore to determine if it was loaded. It
>
>> >hit
>> >bottom with a definite clink so he stuck the breech in his forge to
>
>> >heat it
>> >up some. What happened next was rather spectacular. The thing went
>off
>> >and
>> >the ball bearing bounced off eveything in the shop. When the smoke
>> >cleared
>> >old Wally crawled out from under his forge unhurt, but scared damn
>> >near to
>> >death.
>> > One word of caution on a different subject all together.  If you
>> >folks
>> >don't have a good surge protector, that includes the modem line,
>you
>> >would
>> >do well to invest in one. Lightning can do wonders for modem.
>> >Pendleton
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________________
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>
>

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 01:14:10 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest

MAY GET YOU TO POST MY PICTURES---
      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:29:48 -0600 "Barry Conner"
<[e-mail]> writes:
>Hold it guys,
>
>What about the three pouches at the Colorado Historical Society,
>Marino
>Medina's, Kit Carson's, and Tom Tobin's. How about the pouches at the
>Museum of the Fur trade, also shown in the "Mountain Man's
>Sketchbook",
>Volume Two. At the Western Museum in Durango is another of Tom Tobin's
>pouches along with his coat shown in "Mountain Man's Sketchbook",
>Volume
>One. Look at Madison Grant's "Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch" book
>several of
>those styles can be seen at the Cody Museum, as well as other smaller
>museums around the country from the very early 1800's to 1850.
>
>There's a number of books that touch on the subject, so I'm lost on
>entries
>for your contest, when all one has to do is look around. I personally
>have
>a good small pistol pouch from the 1830-1850 in style according to the
>late
>Charles E. Hanson, Jr. We never thought much of it as both of us have
>passed on several that sellers have good paperwork on but the prices
>were
>too high.
>
>To document such an item is a little time and effort, look at the
>trade gun
>lots of articles but nothing on the internet, I talked to Charley and
>now
>we have a good site for information that is documented.
>See : http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html
>
>Same could be done on the pouch as well as other items of this period,
>with
>a little work. I would do it but am putting together another site for
>period travel, equipage, sources and misc. trail information, as well
>as
>changing business page at : http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
>
>When time allows after the first of the year maybe we could all get
>involved in gathering information on pouches, etc. and build another
>website.
>
>Buck
>
>----------
>> From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
>> To: [e-mail]
>> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search &
>Contest
>> Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 4:01 PM
>>
>> Washtahay-
>>     first off, let me apologize for the delay in getting back to
>this.  As
>far
>> as I have heard, we had NO entries.  I don't think anyone really
>expected
>> any.  Obviously, this doesn't mean all of the fur traders, trappers,
>and
>> n'er-do-wells were running around without a hunting pouch--it just
>goes
>to
>> show how hard it can be to document something we KNOW was in common
>use.
>
>>     Ah, well...
>> LongWalker c. du B.
>> At 09:49 AM 8/14/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> >Washtahay-
>> >    We have our judges-John Kramer, Hawk, and myself
>(LongWalker c. du B).
>> >The prize pool has grown to a rum horn, horn cup, a pre-1840 large
>cent,
>> >and a hand made turkey call.  Here are the rules:
>> >    We want to locate an original hunting pouch that we can
>document as
>having
>> >been in use on the frontier in the years 1825 to 1835, with the
>target
>date
>> >of 1830.  Here are the criteria the bag must meet:
>> >    "Frontier" is defined as Rocky Mountains, Santa Fe trade,
>Texas, or the
>> >Missouri River trade.  We should probably include bags in use in
>the St
>> >Louis area and west within Missouri.  While I would love to hear
>about
>the
>> >bags in use in the North during this time, that isn't the target
>area.
>> >    "Document" is defined as being able to objectively date as
>having been
>in
>> >use in the area defined as "Frontier".  By objectively, I mean by
>> >contemporary records or a chain of evidence.  The assignment of
>dates,
>for
>> >example Madison Grant's "ca 1820-1840" does NOT count, unless
>supported
>by
>> >other available information (an example being the bag he shows on
>pp
>74-75
>> >of KRHP).  If you can come up with a bag that went with the supply
>trains
>> >to Rendezvous, great!  But the bag used by some famous mountain man
>in
>the
>> >late 1850s isn't what we are looking for.
>> >    The bag must be published or accessible to the public.  The
>folks on
>the
>> >list must have some way of accessing the bag, to examine and
>evaluate it
>> >for their own purposes.  Be prepared to furnish supporting
>documentation.
>> >    If you find the bag, submit the information to me directly,
>or to the
>> >list.  If you get in under the deadline with preliminary
>information and
>it
>> >takes a while for the judges' committee to reach a decision, you
>still
>win
>> >if we can agree the bag meets the criteria.
>> >    Deadline for submission is 7 September 1998.
>> >
>> >Let the hunt begin!
>> >
>> >LongWalker c. du B., tilter at windmills, and occasional champion
>of
>lost
>> >causes
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:13:06 +0100
From: Allen Chronister <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: B Connor

You asked if I still had my big boat.  Never did
have one.  A guy nearby built an industrial
strength boat a few years back that we used a time
or two on the Missouri, but it was never mine.
Wish I did have one.  There's not much to beat
sailing down the Missouri in a big wood boat.
Allen Chronister

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:13:37 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Addison O. Miller)
Subject: MtMan-List: Parts needed

I have a Traditions .50 cal Hawken that I want to convert to a flinter. I
can find the touchhole lines, no problem, but I need a source to a lock...
Can someone give me a starting place?  I've tried Thunder Ridge, but can get
no response from them...

Many Thanks

Addison Miller

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:53:09 -0500
From: "Colleen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parts needed

> I have a Traditions .50 cal Hawken that I want to convert to a flinter. I
> can find the touchhole lines, no problem, but I need a source to a lock...
> Can someone give me a starting place?  I've tried Thunder Ridge, but can get
> no response from them...

Try:

Track of the Wolf
PO Box 6
Osseo, MN  55369
612-424-2500

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:41:26 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: MtMan-List: Hall Carbine

Who out there knows where one may procure a repro Hall Carbine.  Info on
vendors and prices appreciated.

TIA

HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
******  Living History . . . Because it's there!  *******

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:38:31 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parts needed

Here are some hyperlinks: <A HREF="http://users.aol.com/canaltwo/bp-
parts.htm">Shooter's Resources</A>  <A HREF="http://www.trackofthewolf.com/">
Track of the Wolf, Inc.</A>  <A HREF="http://www.avsia.com/tvm/">TVM</A>   In
addition to these direct links, also try Don Eads Muzzleloaders Supplies.
16075 Hwy 22 N, Lexington, Tennessee 38351.  phone [phone] fax (901)
967-5002 For looking at their catalog, they have at just about every part
known to man.    yhs,  GunShot

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:20:15 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest

Great the letter shows up on Sept. 29,1998 with a dead line of Sept 7, 1998

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:20:50 -0500
From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest

Washtahay-
At 05:20 PM 9/29/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Great the letter shows up on Sept. 29,1998 with a dead line of Sept 7, 1998
    The original post starting the contest was on 7/28.  Deadline was extended
to 9/7 on 8/13.  Anything else?
LongWalker c. du B.

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #148
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