ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/hist_text/archive/v01.n147

Internet Message Format | 1998-09-28 | 36KB

From: [e-mail] (hist_text-digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #147
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


hist_text-digest      Monday, September 28 1998      Volume 01 : Number 147




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 23:29:33 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bedroll/oil skin

good input cpt lati.... and yes it does work if it is done right---P>S>
read  instructions it works-----
      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

On Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:52:11 -0700 Roger Lahti <[e-mail]> writes:
>
>
>[e-mail] wrote:
>
>> With all due respect, this thing about linseed oil (especially
>boiled) on a
>> canvas (cotton) bedroll is kinda scary.
>
>Folks:
>
>I gave this a shot when I first signed on to the list. I'll give it a
>go again for
>the newcomers.
>
>(25 years as a Professional Fire Fighter). Linseed oil soaked rags are
>dangerous
>as a source of spontaneous ignition if the oil soaked cloth is put in
>an inclosed
>space, like a metal can, plastic can or the rags are wrapped up around
>something
>like the Hawk Head. After the oil has dried or cured, the danger is
>only that of
>any combustible material. That is why steel ships burn so well, they
>have been
>coated on the inside and outside with several layers of Paint. Your
>oil cloth bed
>roll will catch fire fairly easily if you bring it into contact with
>open flame. A
>spark won't do it. Probably burn a hole through it but that's about
>all. Now to
>how to make oil cloth.
>
>This recipe works though there are problems with the finished product.
>The recipe
>consists of linseed oil, bee's wax and about 4 to 8 oz. of burnt umber
>oil paint
>as found in your art supply store.
>
>The more bee's wax you use the more flexible the cloth will be. The
>thinner you
>can make the mixture the lighter the cloth will be. In a large coffee
>can (3 lb.)
>fill 1/2 the can full of linseed oil. Add at least one disc of bee's
>wax that
>measures 1" high and 4"-6" wide. Squeeze in the contents of one
>standard tube of
>burnt umber oil paint and bring to a simmer in the safest manner you
>know. This is
>about as dangerous an operation as making candles and the mixture
>needs to get
>that hot. Mix very well and while the mix cools a bit, prepare the
>cloth for
>treatment. After you take the mixture off the heat source and remove
>to a safe
>location, double the volume by adding turpentine, paint thinner, Etc.
>to thin the
>mix down. If you apply full strength it will add quit a bit of weight
>to the
>cloth. It will be heavy enough as it is.
>
>Prepare a flat area covered with a heavy plastic sheet of visquene and
>lay the
>cloth out smoothly no more than 4 thickness' deep. Use a paint roller
>with medium
>nape on a long handle (if available) and pour some of your "barely
>cool enough to
>handle" mixture into a roller pan and thoroughly soak the cloth. Flip
>the cloth
>over if needed to get good penetration. Make sure that you are
>applying well
>mixed  product so you get a good distribution of bee's wax and oil
>paint.
>
>Most directions I have seen at this point say not to put the treated
>cloth in the
>sun to dry. I have done that here in E. WA and have not had any
>problem with the
>two oil cloths I have made. I pick the cloth up and try to find some
>place to
>drape it so that it will have good air movement and good heat from the
>sun and so
>that it will also drain if it needs to. I usually turn it at least
>once a day
>until it is fairly dry. It will smell like hell for at least two weeks
>and you
>lill not be able to stand being rolled up in it for an even longer
>time if you do
>not get it thoroughly dry. That is why I do it in very sunny weather.
>It may be a
>bit late in the season in some parts of the country to get a good
>quick drying.
>
>I have made two oil cloths using muslin. Muslin is a bit on the lite
>side and will
>be brittle and tear easily when the cloth is cold and stiff in the
>winter. Using
>stronger material will result in a stronger item but it will also hold
>more of the
>oil and bee's wax and thus be heavier. 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the
>other.
>Another trait that you need to consider is that the cloth is quit
>moisture proof
>and  will tend to build up a bit of condensation on the inside if you
>use it as a
>bed roll. I always use a wool blanket so though there is a bit of
>moisture on the
>inside in the morning, it isn't really that big a deal.
>
>I will close this out now before this darned machine freezes up on me
>and I loose
>the whole thing. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. I
>remain....
>
>YMOS
>Capt. Lahti'
>
>
>
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 23:22:36 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old gun barrels

bud---
i never check a gun that way--i always check for the length the ramrod
goes down the barrel---if it isnt the same length as the end of the
barrel to the breach or the drum then i consider it loaded---I restore 15
to 20 guns a year and i get about 1/2 of them in the shop that are
loaded--so i fully understand and know the problem---even got one in from
a customer that took it hunting and left it loaded for over 2 years---I
popped the breach and wal''llla there was powder and ball---luckey i
didn't use heat---now i consider all of them loaded until i can get air
out of the nipple or the drum----
      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

On Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:02:14 -0500 "yellow rose/pendleton"
<[e-mail]> writes:
>Hawk,
> I've been off line for a while so this post is a little late coming,
>but
>here it is. Always check old gun barrels to see if they are loaded.
>Dropping a steel rod down the bore to listen for a clink to determine
>if it
>is loaded is not always a sure thing. I won't go through the whole
>story,
>but I know of one case where a barrel was loaded with a ball bearing.
>The
>man was going to remove the breech plug, it did not want to give up so
>he
>dropped a steel rod down the bore to determine if it was loaded. It
>hit
>bottom with a definite clink so he stuck the breech in his forge to
>heat it
>up some. What happened next was rather spectacular. The thing went off
>and
>the ball bearing bounced off eveything in the shop. When the smoke
>cleared
>old Wally crawled out from under his forge unhurt, but scared damn
>near to
>death.
> One word of caution on a different subject all together.  If you
>folks
>don't have a good surge protector, that includes the modem line, you
>would
>do well to invest in one. Lightning can do wonders for modem.
>Pendleton
>
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 06:43:05 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: On the subject of brain tan...

Grant

Take a look at "Indian Clothing of the Great Lakes" by Cheryl Hartman.

Red Hawk
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 05:41:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sam Keller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bedroll

Try adding Tie Ribbons, with a 4" overlap. like on the flaps of your
tent. Then you can untie it and use it like a regular blanket.



- ---"Thomas W. Roberts" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for your reply. What I meant was to stitch three sides with
the thing open
> (60 x 90) and then fold it over me. I agree that if it were sewn
shut like a
> zipped sleeping bag it would be pretty tough to deal with.
>
> Tom
>
> [e-mail] wrote:
>
> > i have found that stitching up three sides makes it VERY difficult
to slide
> > anything inside including your body  you might try stitching up
one long side
> > and the bottom, then use blanket pins or sharpened thin wooden
sticks to close
> > up the third side after you are in......  YHS.... GunShot
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 05:43:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sam Keller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bedroll

A trick we used to use when I was a kid (3 days before dirt). Wash
yore convas in hot water with a 1/2 cup of alum per gallon of water.
Will shrink the weave of yore canvas and make it more water repellent.



- ---"Thomas W. Roberts" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> Making a couple bedrolls.  Outer layer is 12oz canvas.  Inner layer is
> cotton cloth.  When laid open, size is about 60" x 90".  Planning to
> stitch three sides so a wool blanket can be slipped inside for those
> cold FL nights when it dips below 70 deg.  Either way, it's something
> simple to wrap up in with enough length to tuck under our feet.  My
> question:  Is there a (period appropriate) way to treat this thing to
> repel moisture and yet remain pliable?  I've sampled wax (no good),
> linseed oil (soft until it dries two weeks later), and tung oil
(hard as
> a rock).  I suppose I could Scotchgard or Duck's Back but it just
> wouldn't be right.  Any thoughts?
>
> Tom
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:15:26 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Vermillion, Indigo

Send me your address and I'll try to find you some blue indigo.  Its late in
the year for it to be found.  In late summer the tops turn gray and the seed
pods turn black.  The plant breaks off at the base and just blows around.  You
need the roots.  How much do you want?
        TrapR Joe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:20:02 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: On the subject of brain tan...

I saw where Wooden Hawk has brain tanned buck skin at $14.00 a Foot.  You can
reach him at 3903 Mullins Lane, Dallas, TX 75227-4752  Or Call 214-381-5850
If he isn't at a rendezvous some where.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:26:31 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bedroll

I see lots on this but, when I was a kid we made our bed rolls simply by tri-
folding our blankets, then tucking the bottom under.  You need twice as much
blanket under you to keep from loosing heat into the ground.   With the tri
fold with the two loose ends under you, your body weight keeps it from coming
unfolded during the night.  Even in below zero weather you still need twice
the amount of cover under you.  I kept warm this way for years in all kinds of
weather.

                TrapR Joe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:04:10 +0100
From: Allen Chronister <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: vermillion, bed rolls

On bed rolls:  My current favorite bedding, at
least when I have to carry it all myself, is a
pair of 3 point blankets.
Wes Housler sells un-torn pairs of 3-point
blankets that are woven in Europe.  They are just
about the 19th century 3-point size: two complete
blankets woven in one piece end to end, just like
in the old days. The blanket material is thick and
high quality.  Come in white with black stripe at
each end or red with same.  This is the first time
that un-torn pairs have been available in many
many years, and in the most common 19th century
white w/ black bars pattern.  Fold them in half so
that you have two thicknesses, then in half again
on the long side.  You then have a nice blanket
envelope and you can put any number of layers
above or below you.

On vermillion, don't know what else to add, Joe,
that hasn't been stated about what vermillion is.
It has not been available in this country for a
long time because of its toxicity.  For a quick
reference on vermillion in the trade see Hanson,
Charles.  "A Paper of Vermilion."  Mus. Fur Trade
Quarterly, Vol. 7 No. 3 (Fall 1971):  Phillips,
E.M.  "The Long Story of Vermilion in the Fur
Trade."  Mus. Fur Trade Quarterly Vol. 31 No. 1
(Spring 1995).  An interesting aspect of the trade
was how it was shipped, in a variety of
containers, the most familiar being "papers" or
small folded paper packets.  Also, however, an
apparently common packing was in small leather
pouches in 1/4 lb. lots.
Allen Chronister

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:01:46 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Joe Brandl)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: DYES : Vermillion and Indigo...

As I present history talks to groups around Wyoming each year, I carry many
props with me pertaining to the fur trade and Northern Plains Indians. I
have some blue indigo I bought from Ray Glazner and some Chinese Vermillion
from who knows where. had it along time. I would like any additional
information on these two items to add to my libary
Thanks
Joe

Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery
Call us about our professional home tanning kit-307-455-2440
Write for custom tanning prices
We produce rawhide lampshades and carry a large selection of leather and
hair on robes
Fine lodgepole furniture, pillows, Indian reproductions, paintings, baskets
check out our new web site: http://www.onpages.com/absaroka

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:06:15 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bedroll

the tie ribbons work real good should be about 10 or 12 in long so that
you can use it for other things than a bed roll---there was a posting a
while back on how to install---I like marbles or small smooth round
rocks---
      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 05:41:09 -0700 (PDT) Sam Keller <[e-mail]>
writes:
>Try adding Tie Ribbons, with a 4" overlap. like on the flaps of your
>tent. Then you can untie it and use it like a regular blanket.
>
>
>
>---"Thomas W. Roberts" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for your reply. What I meant was to stitch three sides with
>the thing open
>> (60 x 90) and then fold it over me. I agree that if it were sewn
>shut like a
>> zipped sleeping bag it would be pretty tough to deal with.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> [e-mail] wrote:
>>
>> > i have found that stitching up three sides makes it VERY difficult
>to slide
>> > anything inside including your body  you might try stitching up
>one long side
>> > and the bottom, then use blanket pins or sharpened thin wooden
>sticks to close
>> > up the third side after you are in......  YHS.... GunShot
>>
>>
>>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:52:22 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bedroll

THOMAS---

buy a box of 20 mule team borax and mix with 5 gal of water soak the
canvis in it till it penitrates thru and thru then take out and dont rign
out but let air dry---will make the canvis fire retardant, semi-water
repelant, SOME SHRINKAGE ON NEW CANVIS  and also will help to keep
insects from being around it---the borax does not smell and it works
almost as goos as all the other things that you have been instructed to
do---borax has been used since the early 1800 to keep insects from
damageing cloth and can be totally washed out if desires---if you have a
light white film on the canvis then take a broom and broom it off and it
wont heart anything---BTW 20 mule team borex only costs about 2 bucks a
box----It can be found in most grocery stores in the cleaning
department--  can be sprinkeled inside a tee pee to help keep insect
critters from coming in and sleeping with you---flea's and chiggers---and
is also good to sprinkle in carpet and broom in and vacuum up to keep
fleas off pets and out of your house---it is non toxic to humans and to
animals---and if the canvis gets dirty helps to clean it--- then redoo
the process---this will last about a season and can be redone anytime you
feel you are getting too much moisture thru the canvis---have done this
to target canvis and it works well as a moisture deturant---also helps to
keep mold off.   BTW use hot water and you will increase the shrinkage
and add to the sealing effect---all of these other additives and such
make me nurvous and don't feel i need to have soaking into my body along
with the bad smell it normally produces---

try this and see if it works for you---

      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 05:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Sam Keller <[e-mail]>
writes:
>A trick we used to use when I was a kid (3 days before dirt). Wash
>yore convas in hot water with a 1/2 cup of alum per gallon of water.
>Will shrink the weave of yore canvas and make it more water repellent.
>
>
>
>---"Thomas W. Roberts" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>
>> Making a couple bedrolls.  Outer layer is 12oz canvas.  Inner layer
>is
>> cotton cloth.  When laid open, size is about 60" x 90".  Planning to
>> stitch three sides so a wool blanket can be slipped inside for those
>> cold FL nights when it dips below 70 deg.  Either way, it's
>something
>> simple to wrap up in with enough length to tuck under our feet.  My
>> question:  Is there a (period appropriate) way to treat this thing
>to
>> repel moisture and yet remain pliable?  I've sampled wax (no good),
>> linseed oil (soft until it dries two weeks later), and tung oil
>(hard as
>> a rock).  I suppose I could Scotchgard or Duck's Back but it just
>> wouldn't be right.  Any thoughts?
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:22:42 -0400
From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bedroll

I sorta cheated.... I bought the Bed Roll sleeping bag from Panther.  Washed
it in HOT water (added boiling water from stove to washer) and use 2, 3 pt
blankets.  I fold them both in half and slide them into the bag.  Then I
crawl in and can use 1 or 2 layers for the top, depending on how cold it
gets.  Works good.....

SeanBear
Addison Miller
Naples, FL

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:42:46 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Joe Brandl)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Vermillion, Indigo

Please send to
Joe Brandl
PO Box 777
1416 Warm Springs Drive
Dubois, WY 82513
307-455-2440

I donot know how much one plant will produce, but receiving several plants
would be great
THanks
Joe

Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery
Call us about our professional home tanning kit-307-455-2440
Write for custom tanning prices
We produce rawhide lampshades and carry a large selection of leather and
hair on robes
Fine lodgepole furniture, pillows, Indian reproductions, paintings, baskets
check out our new web site: http://www.onpages.com/absaroka

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:01:47 -0500
From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest

Washtahay-
    first off, let me apologize for the delay in getting back to this.  As far
as I have heard, we had NO entries.  I don't think anyone really expected
any.  Obviously, this doesn't mean all of the fur traders, trappers, and
n'er-do-wells were running around without a hunting pouch--it just goes to
show how hard it can be to document something we KNOW was in common use.
    Ah, well...
LongWalker c. du B.
At 09:49 AM 8/14/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Washtahay-
>    We have our judges-John Kramer, Hawk, and myself (LongWalker c. du B).
>The prize pool has grown to a rum horn, horn cup, a pre-1840 large cent,
>and a hand made turkey call.  Here are the rules:
>    We want to locate an original hunting pouch that we can document as having
>been in use on the frontier in the years 1825 to 1835, with the target date
>of 1830.  Here are the criteria the bag must meet:
>    "Frontier" is defined as Rocky Mountains, Santa Fe trade, Texas, or the
>Missouri River trade.  We should probably include bags in use in the St
>Louis area and west within Missouri.  While I would love to hear about the
>bags in use in the North during this time, that isn't the target area.
>    "Document" is defined as being able to objectively date as having been in
>use in the area defined as "Frontier".  By objectively, I mean by
>contemporary records or a chain of evidence.  The assignment of dates, for
>example Madison Grant's "ca 1820-1840" does NOT count, unless supported by
>other available information (an example being the bag he shows on pp 74-75
>of KRHP).  If you can come up with a bag that went with the supply trains
>to Rendezvous, great!  But the bag used by some famous mountain man in the
>late 1850s isn't what we are looking for.
>    The bag must be published or accessible to the public.  The folks on the
>list must have some way of accessing the bag, to examine and evaluate it
>for their own purposes.  Be prepared to furnish supporting documentation.
>    If you find the bag, submit the information to me directly, or to the
>list.  If you get in under the deadline with preliminary information and it
>takes a while for the judges' committee to reach a decision, you still win
>if we can agree the bag meets the criteria.
>    Deadline for submission is 7 September 1998.
>
>Let the hunt begin!
>
>LongWalker c. du B., tilter at windmills, and occasional champion of lost
>causes
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 20:00:47 -0400
From: Linda Holley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Vermillion, Indigo

If you go the the Books a million and that other big book store, look in the
magazines or even book on fabric weaving and dying.  There is usually, in the
back pages, people who sell these natural dyes including Cochineal for dying
leggings red.  Little dead bugs make a great dye.  I would send you the address
but I am not at a place to get to my books.  Will look these up and send
later.  Also check the Wooden Hamlet Designs that sells silk ribbons.  They use
natural dyes.

Linda Holley

Joe Brandl wrote:

> But where can I get some blue indigo, and any information on vermillion
> Thanks in advance
> Joe
>
> Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery
> Call us about our professional home tanning kit-307-455-2440
> Write for custom tanning prices
> We produce rawhide lampshades and carry a large selection of leather and
> hair on robes
> Fine lodgepole furniture, pillows, Indian reproductions, paintings, baskets
> check out our new web site: http://www.onpages.com/absaroka

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:25:10 -0500
From: "yellow rose/pendleton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old gun barrels

Hawk,
  I sure wasn't trying to tell you how to do your business. Just thought
that story was worth relating. Old Wally and March Coover started playing
with muzzle loaders shortly after World War II. At that time they could not
get new barrels, so they had to use and sometimes rework old original
barrels. Surprising enough many of their barrels came from the scrap yard.
They have told me that many times they would buy a rifle [ which at that
time could be bought for only a few dollars] just to get a useable nipple
since they did not have the equipment to make them and no one was marketing
such goods. Many of those old barrels were still loaded and the one I was
refering to went off even tho it had spent years in a scrap yard out in the
weather.
  These two gentlemen have been a absolute wealth of information for many
of us in the North Texas area. They worked partime for a antique gun dealer
in Dallas begining in the early sixties, restoring guns. Consequently they
have handled more original guns over the years than most of us will ever
see in a lifetime. There is hardly a style of gun you can mention that one
of them has not seen up close. Sadly March Coover passed away earlier this
year. He will be sorely missed.
  I do envy you sir. I dearly wish I had the skill and the opportunity to
the work that you apparently do.
Pendleton
- ----------
> From: Michael Pierce <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old gun barrels
> Date: Sunday, September 27, 1998 10:22 PM
>
> bud---
> i never check a gun that way--i always check for the length the ramrod
> goes down the barrel---if it isnt the same length as the end of the
> barrel to the breach or the drum then i consider it loaded---I restore 15
> to 20 guns a year and i get about 1/2 of them in the shop that are
> loaded--so i fully understand and know the problem---even got one in from
> a customer that took it hunting and left it loaded for over 2 years---I
> popped the breach and wal''llla there was powder and ball---luckey i
> didn't use heat---now i consider all of them loaded until i can get air
> out of the nipple or the drum----
>       "Hawk"
> Michael Pierce
> 854 Glenfield Dr.
> Palm Harbor, florida   34684
> 1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]
>
> On Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:02:14 -0500 "yellow rose/pendleton"
> <[e-mail]> writes:
> >Hawk,
> > I've been off line for a while so this post is a little late coming,
> >but
> >here it is. Always check old gun barrels to see if they are loaded.
> >Dropping a steel rod down the bore to listen for a clink to determine
> >if it
> >is loaded is not always a sure thing. I won't go through the whole
> >story,
> >but I know of one case where a barrel was loaded with a ball bearing.
> >The
> >man was going to remove the breech plug, it did not want to give up so
> >he
> >dropped a steel rod down the bore to determine if it was loaded. It
> >hit
> >bottom with a definite clink so he stuck the breech in his forge to
> >heat it
> >up some. What happened next was rather spectacular. The thing went off
> >and
> >the ball bearing bounced off eveything in the shop. When the smoke
> >cleared
> >old Wally crawled out from under his forge unhurt, but scared damn
> >near to
> >death.
> > One word of caution on a different subject all together.  If you
> >folks
> >don't have a good surge protector, that includes the modem line, you
> >would
> >do well to invest in one. Lightning can do wonders for modem.
> >Pendleton
> >
> >
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:13:56 -0600
From: "Barry Conner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old gun barrels

Pendleton,
For years before World War II, original muzzleloaders were from Francis
Bannerman & Sons, Established 1865 at the foot of Storm Mountain a few
miles north of West Point, NY.

They purchased weapons and equipage from most governments around the world
as new ones replaced the old gun, sword or clothing of that army. My
relations before World War II would by good working perc.or flint guns in
good condition for under $ 5.00 a piece, if buying more than 6 there was a
discount on top of that. Henrys, '73 Winchester were more, in the $10-12
range, but you got a box of shells with the purchase.

In 1926 my father picked up a good Civilian Model Spencer for $8.00 and
Bannerman gave him four boxes of shells, by 1940 the same gun was $25.00
and the shells were $3.00 a box, by 1960 the same gun was $125.00 and
shells were $3.00 a piece. Today the same gun is $1200.00 and I've seen
shells going for $15.00 a piece.

This only one example of a weapon, parts were available for 50 years before
World War II, just had to know were to go for muzzleloading supplies,
powder was a different story. But as you say many were as is picked up from
a battle site, stored and years later found to be still loaded.

I was very young and had a chance to go to Bannerman Island once, there
were rows of rifles a 100 yards long and ten rows deep, same with swords,
pistols, cannons and other weapons. Neat suits of armor, you name ite they
had it, this was in 1948.

This was the good stuff, the barrels, locks and misc. gun parts were in
another area the covered a football field, you see there were parts, again
had to know who and where to go.

Buck
- ----------
> From: yellow rose/pendleton <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old gun barrels
> Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 6:25 PM
>
> Hawk,
>   I sure wasn't trying to tell you how to do your business. Just thought
> that story was worth relating. Old Wally and March Coover started playing
> with muzzle loaders shortly after World War II. At that time they could
not
> get new barrels, so they had to use and sometimes rework old original
> barrels. Surprising enough many of their barrels came from the scrap
yard.
> They have told me that many times they would buy a rifle [ which at that
> time could be bought for only a few dollars] just to get a useable nipple
> since they did not have the equipment to make them and no one was
marketing
> such goods. Many of those old barrels were still loaded and the one I was
> refering to went off even tho it had spent years in a scrap yard out in
the
> weather.
>   These two gentlemen have been a absolute wealth of information for many
> of us in the North Texas area. They worked partime for a antique gun
dealer
> in Dallas begining in the early sixties, restoring guns. Consequently
they
> have handled more original guns over the years than most of us will ever
> see in a lifetime. There is hardly a style of gun you can mention that
one
> of them has not seen up close. Sadly March Coover passed away earlier
this
> year. He will be sorely missed.
>   I do envy you sir. I dearly wish I had the skill and the opportunity to
> the work that you apparently do.
> Pendleton
> ----------
> > From: Michael Pierce <[e-mail]>
> > To: [e-mail]
> > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old gun barrels
> > Date: Sunday, September 27, 1998 10:22 PM
> >
> > bud---
> > i never check a gun that way--i always check for the length the ramrod
> > goes down the barrel---if it isnt the same length as the end of the
> > barrel to the breach or the drum then i consider it loaded---I restore
15
> > to 20 guns a year and i get about 1/2 of them in the shop that are
> > loaded--so i fully understand and know the problem---even got one in
from
> > a customer that took it hunting and left it loaded for over 2 years---I
> > popped the breach and wal''llla there was powder and ball---luckey i
> > didn't use heat---now i consider all of them loaded until i can get air
> > out of the nipple or the drum----
> >       "Hawk"
> > Michael Pierce
> > 854 Glenfield Dr.
> > Palm Harbor, florida   34684
> > 1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]
> >
> > On Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:02:14 -0500 "yellow rose/pendleton"
> > <[e-mail]> writes:
> > >Hawk,
> > > I've been off line for a while so this post is a little late coming,
> > >but
> > >here it is. Always check old gun barrels to see if they are loaded.
> > >Dropping a steel rod down the bore to listen for a clink to determine
> > >if it
> > >is loaded is not always a sure thing. I won't go through the whole
> > >story,
> > >but I know of one case where a barrel was loaded with a ball bearing.
> > >The
> > >man was going to remove the breech plug, it did not want to give up so

> > >he
> > >dropped a steel rod down the bore to determine if it was loaded. It
> > >hit
> > >bottom with a definite clink so he stuck the breech in his forge to
> > >heat it
> > >up some. What happened next was rather spectacular. The thing went off

> > >and
> > >the ball bearing bounced off eveything in the shop. When the smoke
> > >cleared
> > >old Wally crawled out from under his forge unhurt, but scared damn
> > >near to
> > >death.
> > > One word of caution on a different subject all together.  If you
> > >folks
> > >don't have a good surge protector, that includes the modem line, you
> > >would
> > >do well to invest in one. Lightning can do wonders for modem.
> > >Pendleton
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ___________________________________________________________________
> > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 20:25:41 -0500
From: "Ken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Vermillion

Howdy Hawk,
 It's listed in my Audubon Field Guide to Wildflowers ( Eastern ) as Wild
Indigo, ( Baptisia tinctoria ), and the other ( Baptisia australis ) Blue
False Indigo, is an escaped cultivated flower. Pam is going to check on the
latter since the seeds can be purchased here in Texas. The sap turns purple
when exposed to air and historically has been used as an inferior
substitute for true indigo dye. So if the person who was looking for this
stuff will let us know if you are interested in the seeds we will see if we
can get them for you. The place where they grow this stuff is NW of us and
would make for a short weekend adventure to somewhere new. Great excuse for
an outing! The true wild indigo blooms from May to Sept. so we might find
some in AR. Increases in burnt fields. I'll bring the book when I come to
AR and we can give it a shot there as well. ANY excuse to escape to the
country!
Yer most disobedient servant,
YellowFeather

>
> trapperjoe what does it look like-in what area does it grow-----ken is it
> common in arkansas---do you know what it looks like maby during hunting
> season we can find it---
>
>       "Hawk"
> Michael Pierce
> 854 Glenfield Dr.
> Palm Harbor, florida   34684
> 1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]
>
> On Sun, 27 Sep 1998 16:06:16 EDT [e-mail] writes:
> >Wild Bllue Indigo (Blue Wildindigo)  (Baptisia australis)
> >According to my books it grows throughout the plains and prairies of
> >the
> >United States.
> >I live in eastern OKla. and here it's very common allthough most
> >people don't
> >know what it is.
> >
> >
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #147
*******************************

-
 To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to
"[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.