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hist_text-digest       Thursday, October 1 1998       Volume 01 : Number 149




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:07:04 -0600
From: "Barry Conner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: B Connor

Talked to you at Ft.Union when you guys came in on their anniv. for del.
the US Mail, we carried the government mail from Union to Ft. Buford.

Allen nice hearing from you, we were with Jerry Farenthold, he made the
introductions.

Buck
- ----------
> From: Allen Chronister <[e-mail]>
> To: chat <[e-mail]>
> Subject: MtMan-List: B Connor
> Date: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 2:13 AM
>
> You asked if I still had my big boat.  Never did
> have one.  A guy nearby built an industrial
> strength boat a few years back that we used a time
> or two on the Missouri, but it was never mine.
> Wish I did have one.  There's not much to beat
> sailing down the Missouri in a big wood boat.
> Allen Chronister

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:22:49 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest

there was a lot of palaber a while back about a ketch on a bag----i have
been digging and found one that can be posted if someone would like to
put it on their web site--I have it on a jpg and can send it to anyone
interested along with some photoes of a couple of original shooting bags.
the  bags came from m.a. rupp and he was around 90 years old when he gave
them to me--they were his fathers and had been left in a trunk for many
years---he gave the bags to me back in 1960---manard  was born in 1850 in
origon territory---his father migrated there from st louis and is on the
tax rolls in 1825 and then no longer existed on the tax listings---manard
was 12 years old when his father died and left him with his mother---he
migrated to arkansas and became a resident of eureks springs ark in 1954.
 he died in 1958 at the age of 98.  I also have his muzzle loading rifle
that belonged to his father he said---he gave that to me a couple of
years after he gave me the shooting bags----one of the bags is made of
canvis and has his fathers name and  a date of 1830 in the inside of it .
the leather bag doesnt have any markings and is very crude made---the
canvis bag has leather whelting and is also not in very good shape.
there are no straps for either bag---I will send the pictures to anyone
interested or who wants to post them on their web site.

I also promised to send some one a set of drawings for a double
beavertale bag  and have the copies along with a jpg photo of the one in
question and if they would drop me a note offline with their address I
will send out ASAP.  I have prints on hand---

I hope this will start to motivate others in the great 1830 american
hunting bag search---
i know i cannot enter as i am suposto be a judge---some good prizes for
doing a little research.

      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

On Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:49:36 -0500 Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
writes:
>Washtahay-
>    OK folks.  We've had a lot of palaver over one small feature
>of one bag
>the last few days.  So lets get down to brass tacks on this.  I want
>to
>locate an original hunting pouch that we can document as having been
>in use
>on the frontier in the years 1825 to 1835, with the target date of
>1830.
>Here are the criteria the bag must meet:
>    "Frontier" is defined as Rocky Mountains, Santa Fe trade,
>Texas, or the
>Missouri River trade.  We should probably include bags in use in the
>St
>Louis area and west within Missouri.  While I would love to hear about
>the
>bags in use in the North during this time, that isn't the target area.
>
>    "Document" is defined as being able to objectively date as
>having been in
>use in the area defined as "Frontier".  By objectively, I mean by
>contemporary records or a chain of evidence.  The assignment of dates,
>for
>example Madison Grant's "ca 1820-1840" does NOT count, unless
>supported by
>other available information (an example being the bag he shows on pp
>74-75
>of KRHP).  If you can come up with a bag that went with the supply
>trains
>to Rendezvous, great!  But the bag used by some famous mountain man in
>the
>late 1850s isn't what we are looking for.
>    The bag must be published or accessible to the public.  The
>folks on the
>list must have some way of accessing the bag, to examine and evaluate
>it
>for their own purposes.  Be prepared to furnish supporting
>documentation.
>
>    Prize?  Immortal fame isn't enough?  How about a rum horn and
>horn cup?
>Copied after the canteen shown on p 142  and the bottom cup on p 144
>of
>"The Powder Horn and its Architecture".
>    Let's run this for a week or so and see what comes out of the
>woodwork.
>Judge's decisions are final.  Hawk, John Kramer-are you guys willing
>to
>help me judge this?
>
>Let the hunt begin!
>LongWalker c. du B.
>
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:07:25 -0700
From: "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Frontier

Does anyone know if the History Ch. will be showing , Frontier: the
Legends of the old Northwest. Missed it the frist time.  thanks  Frank

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:02:53 -0600
From: "Barry Conner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest

Hawk,

May be able to use your photos for website mentioned earlier for period
travel and equipage used.

Buck

- ----------
> From: Michael Pierce <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest
> Date: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 7:22 PM
>
> there was a lot of palaber a while back about a ketch on a bag----i have
> been digging and found one that can be posted if someone would like to
> put it on their web site--I have it on a jpg and can send it to anyone
> interested along with some photoes of a couple of original shooting bags.
> the  bags came from m.a. rupp and he was around 90 years old when he gave
> them to me--they were his fathers and had been left in a trunk for many
> years---he gave the bags to me back in 1960---manard  was born in 1850 in
> origon territory---his father migrated there from st louis and is on the
> tax rolls in 1825 and then no longer existed on the tax listings---manard
> was 12 years old when his father died and left him with his mother---he
> migrated to arkansas and became a resident of eureks springs ark in 1954.
>  he died in 1958 at the age of 98.  I also have his muzzle loading rifle
> that belonged to his father he said---he gave that to me a couple of
> years after he gave me the shooting bags----one of the bags is made of
> canvis and has his fathers name and  a date of 1830 in the inside of it .
> the leather bag doesnt have any markings and is very crude made---the
> canvis bag has leather whelting and is also not in very good shape.
> there are no straps for either bag---I will send the pictures to anyone
> interested or who wants to post them on their web site.
>
> I also promised to send some one a set of drawings for a double
> beavertale bag  and have the copies along with a jpg photo of the one in
> question and if they would drop me a note offline with their address I
> will send out ASAP.  I have prints on hand---
>
> I hope this will start to motivate others in the great 1830 american
> hunting bag search---
> i know i cannot enter as i am suposto be a judge---some good prizes for
> doing a little research.
>
>       "Hawk"
> Michael Pierce
> 854 Glenfield Dr.
> Palm Harbor, florida   34684
> 1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]
>
> On Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:49:36 -0500 Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
> writes:
> >Washtahay-
> >    OK folks.  We've had a lot of palaver over one small feature
> >of one bag
> >the last few days.  So lets get down to brass tacks on this.  I want
> >to
> >locate an original hunting pouch that we can document as having been
> >in use
> >on the frontier in the years 1825 to 1835, with the target date of
> >1830.
> >Here are the criteria the bag must meet:
> >    "Frontier" is defined as Rocky Mountains, Santa Fe trade,
> >Texas, or the
> >Missouri River trade.  We should probably include bags in use in the
> >St
> >Louis area and west within Missouri.  While I would love to hear about
> >the
> >bags in use in the North during this time, that isn't the target area.
> >
> >    "Document" is defined as being able to objectively date as
> >having been in
> >use in the area defined as "Frontier".  By objectively, I mean by
> >contemporary records or a chain of evidence.  The assignment of dates,
> >for
> >example Madison Grant's "ca 1820-1840" does NOT count, unless
> >supported by
> >other available information (an example being the bag he shows on pp
> >74-75
> >of KRHP).  If you can come up with a bag that went with the supply
> >trains
> >to Rendezvous, great!  But the bag used by some famous mountain man in
> >the
> >late 1850s isn't what we are looking for.
> >    The bag must be published or accessible to the public.  The
> >folks on the
> >list must have some way of accessing the bag, to examine and evaluate
> >it
> >for their own purposes.  Be prepared to furnish supporting
> >documentation.
> >
> >    Prize?  Immortal fame isn't enough?  How about a rum horn and
> >horn cup?
> >Copied after the canteen shown on p 142  and the bottom cup on p 144
> >of
> >"The Powder Horn and its Architecture".
> >    Let's run this for a week or so and see what comes out of the
> >woodwork.
> >Judge's decisions are final.  Hawk, John Kramer-are you guys willing
> >to
> >help me judge this?
> >
> >Let the hunt begin!
> >LongWalker c. du B.
> >
> >
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:46:53 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Frontier (History Channel)

Frank, It doesn't show in the highlights that were in Smoke 'n Fire News, but
here a direct link: <A HREF="http://www.historychannel.com/">The History
Channel</A>   yhs, GunShot

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:51:17 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parts needed

you would be better off calling or getting a siler kit and using the
parts to make your own lock to fit your rifle---the kit is 49.95 from
mountain state and is part number 12114 on page 87 of their catalog.
their 800 number is 1-800-445-1776---they give reliable and prompt
service on all parts.  their catalog costs 5.00 and is returnable on
first order.  if you have a business then there is also a dealer discount
and another if there is quantity involved---must spent $200.00 per year
minimum to stay on dealer status and get your discount...
      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

On Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:53:09 -0500 "Colleen" <[e-mail]>
writes:
>> I have a Traditions .50 cal Hawken that I want to convert to a
>flinter. I
>> can find the touchhole lines, no problem, but I need a source to a
>lock...
>> Can someone give me a starting place?  I've tried Thunder Ridge, but
>can get
>> no response from them...
>
>Try:
>
>Track of the Wolf
>PO Box 6
>Osseo, MN  55369
>612-424-2500
>
>
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:45:41 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parts needed

addison:

if you cant find a lock then order a siler flintlock kit---get you a
piece of flat iron and copy your outline of the lock in your rifle.  take
the parts from the siler and install on the plate I have done this on
many of a conversion that i could not find a replacement lock for---makes
it quite dimple--drill a few holes and do a little tapping---the lock
plate that you cut out should be tapered inward about 2 to 5 degree so
that it will mary into the wood without a gap---give me a call if you
have any questions--.

      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

On Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:13:37 -0400 [e-mail] (Addison O. Miller)
writes:
>I have a Traditions .50 cal Hawken that I want to convert to a
>flinter. I
>can find the touchhole lines, no problem, but I need a source to a
>lock...
>Can someone give me a starting place?  I've tried Thunder Ridge, but
>can get
>no response from them...
>
>Many Thanks
>
>Addison Miller
>
>
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:53:37 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parts needed

don eads good suplier and usually prompt if he has what you need in
stock---best to call and order that way you will know if he is able to
ship---if not try mountain state---1-800-445-1776 they also have about
anything you might need---good prices too.
      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

On Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:38:31 EDT [e-mail] writes:
>Here are some hyperlinks: <A HREF="http://users.aol.com/canaltwo/bp-
>parts.htm">Shooter's Resources</A>  <A
>HREF="http://www.trackofthewolf.com/">
>Track of the Wolf, Inc.</A>  <A
>HREF="http://www.avsia.com/tvm/">TVM</A>   In
>addition to these direct links, also try Don Eads Muzzleloaders
>Supplies.
>16075 Hwy 22 N, Lexington, Tennessee 38351.  phone [phone] fax
>(901)
>967-5002 For looking at their catalog, they have at just about every
>part
>known to man.    yhs,  GunShot
>
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:59:18 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hall Carbine

only persons that i know that might have what you want is cape outfitters
in cape garardeau mo---phone # [phone]  ---would you be interested
in a original---I may know where one is but don't remember the condition
will have to check---let me know your wishes---

      YMHOSANT

      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

On Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:41:26 -0600 (CST) [e-mail] (Henry B.
Crawford) writes:
>Who out there knows where one may procure a repro Hall Carbine.  Info
>on
>vendors and prices appreciated.
>
>TIA
>
>HBC
>
>*****************************************
>Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
>[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
>806/742-2442           Box 43191
>FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
>               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
>******  Living History . . . Because it's there!  *******
>
>
>
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 03:30:35 -0500
From: Jeff Powers <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Frontier

On 1998-09-29 [e-mail] said to [e-mail]
   >X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-KIT  (Win16; U)
   >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
   >Sender: [e-mail]
   >Precedence: bulk
   >Status:
   >Does anyone know if the History Ch. will be showing , Frontier: the
   >Legends of the old Northwest. Missed it the frist time.  thanks
   >Frank
(GRIN) I was unable to watch it the first time around and had my wife tape
it for me. Now I can watch it anytime I want. wonderful inventions,VCR's!
 In all honesty,Keep an eye on the listings for history channel,it will be
on again soon. Or check the web page,I think its www.historychannel.com but
I would check it out on a search engine first.

Jeff Powers,Rogue & Ne'er do Well

"They make no scruple to break wind publickly" Fr.Louis Hennepin 1698

Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:38:24 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parts needed

In a message dated 98-09-29 12:16:07 EDT, you write:

<< I have a Traditions .50 cal Hawken that I want to convert to a flinter. I
 can find the touchhole lines, no problem, but I need a source to a lock...
 Can someone give me a starting place?  I've tried Thunder Ridge, but can get
 no response from them...

 Many Thanks

 Addison Miller
  >>
Have you called Traditions?  If the gun was originally available as a flint or
cap they may have a drop in swap.  I know that several of their guns are built
to be an either or as they like to sell for deer season in Pennsylvania which
is a flint only state.  Their telephone # is 860-388-4656, M - F 8 a.m. to
4:30 p.m. EST.

Your Humble Servant

C.T. Oakes

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:44:13 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re: MtMan-List: On the subject of brain tan...

Thanks for your helpful information.  Please unsubscribe me at this time.
Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:43:34 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re: MtMan-List: Painters Tarps

Thanks for your helpful information.  Please unsubscribe me at this time.
Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:44:33 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re: MtMan-List: On the subject of brain tan...

Thanks for your helpful information.  Please unsubscribe me at this time.
Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:45:20 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re: MtMan-List: Vermillion, Indigo

Thanks for your helpful information.  Please unsubscribe me at this time.
Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:46:10 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re: MtMan-List: On the subject of brain tan...

Thanks for your helpful information.  Please unsubscribe me at this time.
Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:45:41 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re: MtMan-List: On the subject of brain tan...

Thanks for your helpful information.  Please unsubscribe me at this time.
Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:46:40 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re: MtMan-List: Bedroll

Thanks for your helpful information.  Please unsubscribe me at this time.
Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:45:00 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  MtMan-List: DYES : Vermillion and Indigo...

Thanks for your helpful information.  Please unsubscribe me at this time.
Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:47:24 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  MtMan-List: vermillion, bed rolls

Thanks for your helpful information.  Please unsubscribe me at this time.
Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:46:55 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re: MtMan-List: Vermillion, Indigo

Thanks for your helpful information.  Please unsubscribe me at this time.
Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:47:52 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re: MtMan-List: Bedroll

Thanks for your helpful information.  Please unsubscribe me at this time.
Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:49:49 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re: MtMan-List: Old gun barrels

Thanks for your helpful information.  Please unsubscribe me at this time.
Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:50:39 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re: MtMan-List: Parts needed

Thanks for your helpful information.  Please unsubscribe me at this time.
Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:51:40 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re: MtMan-List: Frontier

Thanks for your helpful information.  Please unsubscribe me at this time.
Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:20:25 -0700
From: "JON P TOWNS" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parts needed

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_01BDEC96.9CDE3620
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

You done it backwards most get the lock first then change the barrel the
way you have done it makes a good club and also a lot of work.  If you
can't find a lock then fill the lock mortise and then dig out for the new
lock.  Later Jon T

- ----------
: From: [e-mail]
: To: [e-mail]
: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parts needed
: Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 6:38 AM
:
: In a message dated 98-09-29 12:16:07 EDT, you write:
:
: << I have a Traditions .50 cal Hawken that I want to convert to a
flinter. I
:  can find the touchhole lines, no problem, but I need a source to a
lock...
:  Can someone give me a starting place?  I've tried Thunder Ridge, but can
get
:  no response from them...
:
:  Many Thanks
:
:  Addison Miller
:   >>
: Have you called Traditions?  If the gun was originally available as a
flint or
: cap they may have a drop in swap.  I know that several of their guns are
built
: to be an either or as they like to sell for deer season in Pennsylvania
which
: is a flint only state.  Their telephone # is 860-388-4656, M - F 8 a.m.
to
: 4:30 p.m. EST.
:
: Your Humble Servant
:
: C.T. Oakes
:
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BDEC96.9CDE3620
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">You done it backwards most get the lock =
first then change the barrel the way you have done it makes a good club =
and also a lot of work.  If you can't find a lock then fill the =
lock mortise and then dig out for the new  lock.  Later Jon =
T<br><br>----------<br>: From: <font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>[e-mail]</u><font color=3D"#000000"><br>: =
To: <font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>[e-mail]</u><font =
color=3D"#000000"><br>: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parts needed<br>: Date: =
Wednesday, September 30, 1998 6:38 AM<br>: <br>: In a message dated =
98-09-29 12:16:07 EDT, you write:<br>: <br>: << I have a =
Traditions .50 cal Hawken that I want to convert to a flinter. I<br>: =
 can find the touchhole lines, no problem, but I need a source to a =
lock...<br>:  Can someone give me a starting place?  I've =
tried Thunder Ridge, but can get<br>:  no response from =
them...<br>:  <br>:  Many Thanks<br>:  <br>: =
 Addison Miller<br>:   >><br>: Have you called =
Traditions?  If the gun was originally available as a flint or<br>: =
cap they may have a drop in swap.  I know that several of their =
guns are built<br>: to be an either or as they like to sell for deer =
season in Pennsylvania which<br>: is a flint only state.  Their =
telephone # is 860-388-4656, M - F 8 a.m. to<br>: 4:30 p.m. EST.<br>: =
<br>: Your Humble Servant<br>: <br>: C.T. Oakes<br>: </p>
</font></font></font></font></font></body></html>
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BDEC96.9CDE3620--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:39:00 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Buckskin Coats

Ho the List

I am currently researching buckskin hunting frocks and would like to make
myself one.  I am intersted in making an indian style buckskin coat.

I have "The Frontier Rifleman" by Richard B. La Crosse, Jr. and the Mountain
Man Sketchbooks by Hanson.  I cannot get the patterns showing the coats
attributed the Indians to work.  I make very small models

Has anyone made such a coat or hunting shirt ?   What type of research did you
use?  Does any one know where I can get any useful patterns etc.

Thank you all very much for your time
Watch your topknot
John Seminerio

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:18:48 -0400
From: Linda Holley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: On the subject of brain tan...

I am trying to get the books that will help you .....But I have a bad cold and
going to bed early tonight too.  But I did not want you to think I had forgotten
you.  One book that is real good is Bongu ne ge  and that is spelled wrong.  It is
from the museum in Canada and shows very good examples of the leggings you are
talking about.
I am looking it up along with a fairly good book by Sherryl Hartman call Indian
Clothing of the Great lakes.

Linda

[e-mail] wrote:

> If it was a sexist statement, I didn't read it that way.  Anyhow, I am
> interested in your comments about the dark smoke or dyed leggings.  I have not
> found any good resources (can't say that I have looked THAT hard) to research
> leggings.  I understand the design and can make a pair I am sure, but as for
> what is exactly correct for what group and area I am not sure.  Any help would
> be much appreciated.
>
> Grant

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:18:26 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parts needed

In a message dated 98-09-29 12:16:07 EDT, you write:

<< I have a Traditions .50 cal Hawken that I want to convert to a flinter. I
 can find the touchhole lines, no problem, but I need a source to a lock... >>

Mountain State Muzzleloading Supplies
Rt. 2 Box 154-1
Williamstown, WV 26187

Customer Service [phone]

Keep in mind the older Traditions shared the same locks as CVA, so the CVA
Hawkin lock will work.  Get some extra main springs -- these locks had a
tendency to loose tension on the main spring.  Otherwise, they were pretty
trouble free, but I did break a sear once in the 5 years I used CVA's &
Traditions.  There's a sear engagement screw in the tumbler you may want to
take out -- it has the maddning tendency to self adjust to where the lock
won't hold cock even with the little spring that's supposed to prevent this.
If you want to retain this screw, I'd advise a bit of locktite or fingernail
polish to remedy the problem, but they do have flys & with set triggers, the
screw is unnecessary.  These locks tune up well & perform well for their
price.  Don't get me wrong -- they're NOT L&R's or Silers, but they do the job
& do it pretty well.

NM

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:02:39 -0400
From: Elizabeth Pidgeon <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Buckskin Coats

Message text written by INTERNET:[e-mail]
>Has anyone made such a coat or hunting shirt ?   What type of research d=
id
you
use?  Does any one know where I can get any useful patterns etc.
<

 I have made dozens of these coats E-mail Me and we can disscuss .
                                        Carl
  [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 07:22:56 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parts needed

the CVA hawkens lock is on page 84 and is part number 12090   model
#1331-----the price is $65.00 and is of mediocre quality---as i stated in
a earlier posting I thank you would be better off  buying a siler kit for
$49.95 and using the parts on a plate made of flat stock---the siler pan
is a separate part and is screwed to the flat part of the lock---you can
transfer the lock outline and tumbler location from your old lock plate
using masking tape and a pencil.  its a bit more work but you wind up
with a much better quality and better sparking lock---have to also watch
your sear location in reference to the triggers.

If it was me and I wanted a flint I believe I would trade the gun you
have off and put the money toward a flint that is complete---you are
going to have about 1/3 the price of a new gun in parts and labor minimum
and will probably never be satisfied with the quality and function .

I normally can assemble and tune a siler flint kit in about an hr and a
half  and to cut out the plate and fit it will take about 2 or 4 hrs
depending on your tools used  (IE: cut plate by hand or on a metal
cutting ban saw)---I have over the ages built a bunch of locator tools
and junk to help assemble siler locks--this makes it so  i can do
everything on a common drill press---I mike the tumbler and drill the
hole about .002 larger.  you will also need a chizzle to clear some of
the wood inside the lock inletting area--remove as little wood as
possible to make guts of the lock fit---I never alter the lock mortise
but make the metal fit the wood.  this is done by beveling the lock
plate.

on page 169 of the mountain state catalog  a  50 cal thompson center
flintlock kit gun costs $260.35 and a completed gun costs $337.65.  you
have many avenues to go and consider but that is up to you as  a
individual---I know we get attached to our guns and sometimes don't mind
whipping out the green frog skins to get them to the state we desire.
My self  I shoot several different guns I have a percussion and a flint
but they are  what i feel is best for me---and i don't mix the two.

as you probably have gathered  I am not really a CVA or thompson center
fan---most of them are mediocre in quality ---don't get me wrong---I have
seen several of them that shoot pretty good(NOTE i say pretty good)---I
am from the old school--the quality of the barrel and the lock is what
makes the gun shoot---a good barrel and lock on a pine board will give
you a gun that will be consistent and dependable and will cut center all
the time even if it is not pretty.  Look at J.L. Harges and his flint
gun---barrel is held in the channel with tang screw and black electrical
tape---He won a many a medal and aggregate at the nationals with that
ugly thing.  If i remember right he has  as much in the barrel on that
piece of junk as most people spend on a CVA. and he has posted a hell of
a lot of national records in scores---so pretty don't make a rifle gun
cut center or be dependable---

BTW  Mountain state 800 number is 1-800-445-1776
I appoligise for the dissertation and my running of  the mouth---feel
free to give me a call and I will try to help you out as much as possible
being the BIAS person  i am---It is up to you to make your decision using
common sense and feelings.  I know how we get attached to our guns---HOPE
YOU GET TO WHERE YOU WANT TO BE WITH THE PROJECT---

   YMHOSANT
         =+=
      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:18:26 EDT [e-mail] writes:
>In a message dated 98-09-29 12:16:07 EDT, you write:
>
><< I have a Traditions .50 cal Hawken that I want to convert to a
>flinter. I
> can find the touchhole lines, no problem, but I need a source to a
>lock... >>
>
>Mountain State Muzzleloading Supplies
>Rt. 2 Box 154-1
>Williamstown, WV 26187
>
>Customer Service [phone]
>
>Keep in mind the older Traditions shared the same locks as CVA, so the
>CVA
>Hawkin lock will work.  Get some extra main springs -- these locks had
>a
>tendency to loose tension on the main spring.  Otherwise, they were
>pretty
>trouble free, but I did break a sear once in the 5 years I used CVA's
>&
>Traditions.  There's a sear engagement screw in the tumbler you may
>want to
>take out -- it has the maddning tendency to self adjust to where the
>lock
>won't hold cock even with the little spring that's supposed to prevent
>this.
>If you want to retain this screw, I'd advise a bit of locktite or
>fingernail
>polish to remedy the problem, but they do have flys & with set
>triggers, the
>screw is unnecessary.  These locks tune up well & perform well for
>their
>price.  Don't get me wrong -- they're NOT L&R's or Silers, but they do
>the job
>& do it pretty well.
>
>NM
>
>

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