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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #1327 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Wednesday, March 3 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1327 In this issue: -áááááá MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Firearm for Bear/Mountain Lion Protection -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Firearm for Bear/Mountain Lion Protection -áááááá MtMan-List: brain tan frock coat -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: brain tan frock coat -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: brain tan frock coat -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: firearm for bear/mountain lion attacks -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: firearm for bear/mountain lion attacks -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: firearm for bear/mountain lion attacks -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: brain tan frock coat -áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: brain tan frock coat -áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 23:04:56 -0700 From: "Wynn Ormond" <cheyenne@pcu.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0176_01C400AA.C7BE6300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Crazy Please do a little mental digging or maybe someone else can tell me = where I could get the info on drowning. I am working on an article for = the T&LR that would be well supported by the information that you are = suggesting is there. Thank You=20 Wynn =20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0176_01C400AA.C7BE6300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Crazy</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Please do a little mental digging or = maybe someone=20 else can tell me where I could get the info on drowning. I am = working on=20 an article for the T&LR that would be well supported by the = information that=20 you are suggesting is there.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thank You </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wynn</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML> - ------=_NextPart_000_0176_01C400AA.C7BE6300-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 01:27:18 -0500 From: MunevarL@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Firearm for Bear/Mountain Lion Protection Thanks SnakeOyl. I want to do it right from the start. I appreciate the advice on practice and safety. Lou - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 01:28:26 -0500 From: MunevarL@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Firearm for Bear/Mountain Lion Protection Thanks BB. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 23:46:40 -0700 From: "tom" <thsb@earthlink.net> Subject: MtMan-List: brain tan frock coat - ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII well brothers, last Saturday night, i finally had begged, borrowed and bartered enough brain tan deer skins to start me a dandy new frock coat. and Sunday night i was finished (i was really motivated i worked most of the night and all day Sunday) now i am stuck........... the body of the coat is not the tailored type. so a split up the back, to accommodate riding isn't so easy to work in to the design of the coat. i was wondering if anyone had a similar type coat, and if they have the back split? ( crazy, Allen, don't you boys have coats like that?) i have some ideas but i thought some input might be wise to seek before go ahead and split the back. thanks, Tom #1834 PRP - ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII <HTML style="FONT-SIZE: x-small; FONT-FAMILY: MS Sans Serif"><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV>well brothers,</DIV> <DIV>last Saturday night, i finally had begged, borrowed and bartered enough brain tan deer skins to start me a dandy new frock coat. and Sunday night i was finished (i was really motivated i worked most of the night and all day Sunday) now i am stuck........... the body of the coat is not the tailored type. so a split up the back, to accommodate riding isn't so easy to work in to the design of the coat. i was wondering if anyone had a similar type coat, and if they have the back split? ( crazy, Allen, don't you boys have coats like that?) i have some ideas but i thought some input might be wise to seek before go ahead and split the back.</DIV> <DIV>thanks, Tom #1834 PRP</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid"><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> - ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 04:41:40 EST From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died - --part1_20.24054fac.2d770254_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wynn I try to look it up next week right now I've got to much going on trying to get ready for this weekends winter camp in the Tetons. Are you going to be able to make it? It should be a good camp we are up to 17 that are going to snow shoe in to camp. Crazy - --part1_20.24054fac.2d770254_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10>Wynn <BR>I try to look it up next week right now I've got to much going on trying= to get ready for this weekends winter camp in the Tetons. Are you going to=20= be able to make it? <BR>It should be a good camp we are up to 17 that are going to snow shoe in=20= to camp. <BR>Crazy <BR> <BR></FONT></HTML> - --part1_20.24054fac.2d770254_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 04:55:48 EST From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan frock coat - --part1_aa.28e357a2.2d7705a4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom You have got to be kidding Jill won't let me have any hides big enough to make a frock long enough to get in the way while riding. My frock is kind of bob tailed in the back it only comes down to the upper part of my thighs in the back. She says big hides are for making dresses, go figure! So long as it is not tied shut all the way down you should have enough room to ride in it and if not you can always spit it up a might in the back after you have tried it out. Looking forward to see you finished frock. see you on the trail Crazy Cyot - --part1_aa.28e357a2.2d7705a4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10>Tom <BR>You have got to be kidding Jill won't let me have any hides big enough t= o make a frock long enough to get in the way while riding. My frock is kind=20= of bob tailed in the back it only comes down to the upper part of my thighs=20= in the back. <BR>She says big hides are for making dresses, go figure! <BR>So long as it is not tied shut all the way down you should have enough r= oom to ride in it and if not you can always spit it up a might in the back a= fter you have tried it out. <BR>Looking forward to see you finished frock. <BR>see you on the trail <BR>Crazy Cyot</FONT></HTML> - --part1_aa.28e357a2.2d7705a4_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:51:18 +0000 From: amm1616@comcast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan frock coat Tom, I know of a few men who have split flock coats, including myself. Mine is a nice wool lined with cambray. But the rest like the good brain tanner Ken Smith has their's out of leather. I think most are lined too. Mine was a copy of one out of a MFT book (the Mountain Man sketch book,Pierre Chouteau's coat I think). If you are going to split the back, do you want it to be functional or for looks? If functional, the split needs to go all the way to where the inseam of your pants will meet it. Other wise, it will have to "ride up" the back when in the saddle or even in a chair. If you do decide to do this, and wear a breechcloth, wind will find a way in the "tender" areas. Something to think about. Some like the back of jackets to be solid, others split. I bet either way yours will look good. mike. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:37:32 -0800 From: JW Stephens <lray@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: firearm for bear/mountain lion attacks From the historical perspective it seems that we are talking about a new breed of creature that wasn't present in the RMFT days. Yet ... (Adventures of a Mountain Man, Zenas Leonard): The Grizzly Bear is the most ferocious animal that inhabits these prairies, and are very numerous. They no sooner see you than they will make at you with open mouth. If you stand still, they will come within two or three yards of you, and stand upon their hind feet, and look you in the face, if you have fortitude enough to face them, they will turn and run off; but if you turn they will most assuredly tear you to pieces; furnishing strong proof of the fact, that no wild beast, however daring and ferocious, unless wounded, will attack the face of man. (page 16) (Adventures of a Mountain Man, Zenas Leonard, subsection "Adventures of Fitzpatrick" 'in his own words'): One day after a toilsome ride, I dismounted, turned my horse loose to graze and seated myself on a rock, with the little remaining provision I had, to refresh myself. While thus seated resting my wearied limbs, and satisfying the gnawings of hunger, I was suddenly startled by a scrambling on the rocks immediately in my rear. I turned round and beheld a huge bear approaching me in double quick time. I instantly sprang to my feet, for I was well acquainted with his mode of warfare. I turned and faced his lordship, when he approached within about six feet of me, rose on his hind feet and most impudently stared me right in the face, for more than a minute. After discovering that I was no ways bashful, he bowed, turned and run - I did the same, and made for my horse. Bruin was not so easy fooled; he seen my retreat & gave chase. I thought I could reach my horse and mount before the bear could reach me, but the approach of the bear frightened my beast, and just as I was going to mount he sprang loose and threw me on the broad of my back. The bear was at my heels, and I thought that all chance of escape was now gone. Instantly I was again on my feet, - and, as it were, in a fit of desperation, rushed towards the bear, which, fearing, as they do, the face of man, again turned and run. - Sir Bruin stopped to secure the little morsel I had been eating, and retired a few paces to devour it. While the bear was thus employed, I crept to my gun, keeping the rock between him and me, having reached it, took deliberate aim and killed him dead on the spot. (Adventures of a Mountain Man, Zenas Leonard in California): After traveling a mile or so, whilst ascending a hill, came suddenly upon an old bear and two cubs. - The bear immediately on seeing Philips, as is their custom, reared on her hind feet, and being very close, commenced growling most furiously. This our hero could not brook, and fearing the consequences if he should shoot and wound her lost his presence of mind, and started to run - The bear immediately pursued and caught him. He now found it quite useless to attempt to get loose, and only saved his life by sinking to the ground and affecting to be dead. The bear then left him, but not with- out wounding him to such a degree that it was a long time before he could collect strength enough to raise to his feet. It was late at night when he reached the camp, and was so far gone, from hunger & loss of blood, that his life was despaired of at first. One of his arms was broke & his body most shockingly cut and mangled. (Adventures of a Mountain Man, Zenas Leonard): (Returned from the Joseph Rutherford Walker expedition to California and bound back for the states). 8th of August, when, as the company were passing through a small prairie, we discovered a large grizzly bear laying in the shade of some brush at the edge of the woods, when four of us started for the purpose of killing him, but on coming close, the bear heard us and ran into the thicket. We now took separate courses, intending to surround the bear & chase him out and have some sport; but one man, as we came to the thicket, acted very imprudently by dismounting and following a buffaloe path into the brush, when the bear, hearing our horses on the opposite side, started out on the same path and met the man, when he attempted to avoid it by climbing a small tree, but being too closely pressed was unable to get out of the reach of the bear, and as it passed, caught him by the leg and tore the tendon of his thigh in a most shocking manner. Before we could get to his aid the bear made off and finally escaped. Here we encamped and remained until the next day, when the wounded man expired - having bled to death from the wound, although every effort in our power was of no use. End citations. I am surprised that none have raised "the face of man" belief in this thread previously. ("strong proof of the fact, that no wild beast, however daring and ferocious, unless wounded, will attack the face of man.") And I am trying to recall which trapper, and where, is cited as waiting until the bruin closed close enough to put the gun into it's mouth and discharge the contents, which seems a sure way to cause bruin to lose it's mind, but would seem to require cajones of solid ice. B'st'rd Cat country - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:00:29 +0000 From: amm1616@comcast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died Wynn, I have some journal entries that might help in the drowning area. Email me off list and I'll give them to you. I am also trying to pull up from memory a very nice entry of a young respected man that did drown while crossing a stream on horse back,but can't remember if it is in russell, Irving or Leonard. They mention that he did it against their advice and did drown. mike. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:33:14 EST From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: firearm for bear/mountain lion attacks - --part1_117.2fba4c97.2d77e15a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/3/04 2:41:42 PM, lray@mindspring.com writes: > waiting until the bruin closed close enough to put the gun > into it's mouth and discharge the contents, which seems a > sure way to cause bruin to lose it's mind, but would seem to > require cajones of solid ice. > > Haaaaaaaa.... and rather large ones at that! Good post B'st'rd. I've been reluctant to get into this discussion on what to use to kill a bear, but I will say I've shot a fairly large brown bear, (with 3 shots from a .338mag... all in the kill zone) have seen several killed by hunters, (only one went down with one shot) have had one buddy killed by one, (a registered guide in Alaska) and another slapped around a bit.(another guide in Alaska) The brown bear is a fearsome animal, but I'd say 99% of the time, they will leave you alone if you don't run from them. The Grizzly (the same bear living inland) may be another story.... How my friend that got killed is a depressing story, but I'll relate the story about Mario Cerami,... the guy that got slapped around somewhat... Seems Mario was the last in line of a group of five guys coming back to camp after a successful caribou hunt. The guides and hunters all had packs of meat and antlers, and were traveling down a game trail that runs along side a creek. Mario sez he was probably ten steps behind the guy in front of him when he hears a "woof...woof..woof" .... As he looks to his right, he sees a bear in a flat out charge, coming at him. His rifle is slung over his pack, and not having time to get the gun clear.... he leaps backwards into the stream as the bear jumps on him. The stream was about 3 feet deep where he landed, and the bear is on top of him...standing on his chest...and making mighty sweeps with his claws to hook him. Through all this commotion, Mario sez he could hear a "pop...pop...pop..." along with the grunts of the bear while he's under water. He said it took a little while to realize what the "pop" sounds were, and that was the only time he got kinda scared. The pops of course were gun fire from the boys that were with him, and not getting a real good breath of air when he went under with the bear on him, he thought the bear was going die on top of him and he would drown.... (!) As it turns out, the bear, after being hit several times, jumps off Mario, makes it to the far bank, and dies. Mario jumps up and catches his much needed breath of air.... A quick check, and other than a torn up shirt and a couple scratches, he none the worse for the wear. To hear him tell the story, will make the hair stand up on the back of yer neck.... The bear could be termed a grizzly I guess, because they were up in the Wrangle Mountains, (Alaska) pretty far from the coast. They never did decide why the bear charged unprovoked, other than he was hungry and could smell the caribou they were carrying.... go figure. Magpie - --part1_117.2fba4c97.2d77e15a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><HTML><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" FACE=3D"Gen= eva" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" SIZE=3D"2"><BR> In a message dated 3/3/04 2:41:42 PM, lray@mindspring.com writes:<BR> <BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE CITE STYLE=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;=20= MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px" TYPE=3D"CITE"></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0= 00000" FACE=3D"Geneva" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" SIZE=3D"2">waiting until the bru= in closed close enough to put the gun<BR> into it's mouth and discharge the contents, which seems a<BR> sure way to cause bruin to lose it's mind, but would seem to<BR> require cajones of solid ice.<BR> <BR> </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" FACE=3D"Geneva" FAMILY=3D"SANSSE= RIF" SIZE=3D"2">Haaaaaaaa.... and rather large ones at that!<BR> <BR> Good post B'st'rd. I've been reluctant to get into this d= iscussion on what to use to kill a bear, but I will say I've shot a fairly l= arge brown bear, (with 3 shots from a .338mag... all in the kill zone) have=20= seen several killed by hunters, (only one went down with one shot) have had=20= one buddy killed by one, (a registered guide in Alaska) and another slapped=20= around a bit.(another guide in Alaska) The brown bear is a fearsome animal,=20= but I'd say 99% of the time, they will leave you alone if you don't run from= them. The Grizzly (the same bear living inland) may be another story....<BR= > <BR> How my friend that got killed is a depressing story, but I'll relate the sto= ry about Mario Cerami,... the guy that got slapped around somewhat...<BR> <BR> Seems Mario was the last in line of a group of five guys coming back to camp= after a successful caribou hunt. The guides and hunters all had packs of me= at and antlers, and were traveling down a game trail that runs along side a=20= creek. Mario sez he was probably ten steps behind the guy in front of him wh= en he hears a "woof...woof..woof" .... As he looks to his right, he sees a b= ear in a flat out charge, coming at him. His rifle is slung over his pack, a= nd not having time to get the gun clear.... he leaps backwards into the stre= am as the bear jumps on him.<BR> <BR> The stream was about 3 feet deep where he landed, and the bear is on top of=20= him...standing on his chest...and making mighty sweeps with his claws to hoo= k him. Through all this commotion, Mario sez he could hear a "pop...pop...po= p..." along with the grunts of the bear while he's under water. He said it t= ook a little while to realize what the "pop" sounds were, and that was the o= nly time he got kinda scared. The pops of course were gun fire from the boys= that were with him, and not getting a real good breath of air when he went=20= under with the bear on him, he thought the bear was going die on top of him=20= and he would drown.... (!)<BR> As it turns out, the bear, after being hit several times, jumps off Mario, m= akes it to the far bank, and dies. Mario jumps up and catches his much neede= d breath of air.... A quick check, and other than a torn up shirt and a coup= le scratches, he none the worse for the wear. <BR> To hear him tell the story, will make the hair stand up on the back of yer n= eck....<BR> The bear could be termed a grizzly I guess, because they were up in the Wran= gle Mountains, (Alaska) pretty far from the coast. They never did decide why= the bear charged unprovoked, other than he was hungry and could smell the c= aribou they were carrying.... go figure.<BR> <BR> Magpie<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" FACE=3D"Geneva" FAMILY=3D"= SANSSERIF" SIZE=3D"2"></FONT></HTML> - --part1_117.2fba4c97.2d77e15a_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:45:51 -0700 (MST) From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died I'd like to read that info too cause I'm having a hard time believing that more guys died by drowning then indian attacks. Maybe an indian wrote that report! bb > Crazy > Please do a little mental digging or maybe someone else can tell me where > I could get the info on drowning. I am working on an article for the T&LR > that would be well supported by the information that you are suggesting is > there. > > Thank You > Wynn > > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:31:36 -0700 From: "Wynn Ormond" <cheyenne@pcu.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died Your wrong bb. Indians don't write they use hand sign and smoke signals for nonverbal communication. Sorry Crazy, I wont be joining you boys. Toas Tom and I are headed south to put the horses to a little use in the desert. Someday I will get motivated to put together a better deep snow outfit with tabbogan and snowshoes but so far my stick has not floated that way. This talk of drowning has put an altogether different meaning to "the way your stick floats" doesn't it? And sorry for the gross stereotyping of Native Americans I just couldn't resist. Wynn - ----- Original Message ----- From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died > I'd like to read that info too cause I'm having a hard time believing > that more guys died by drowning then indian attacks. Maybe an indian > wrote that report! > bb > > > Crazy > > Please do a little mental digging or maybe someone else can tell me where > > I could get the info on drowning. I am working on an article for the T&LR > > that would be well supported by the information that you are suggesting is > > there. > > > > Thank You > > Wynn > > > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:22:46 -0800 From: "RP Lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: firearm for bear/mountain lion attacks Wearing a human face mask on the back of the head is said to be effective proof against Tiger killings in India and Bangladesh. Wood cutters were being lost in great numbers until this strategy was employed. Maybe there is something to facing them down. YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ----- Original Message ----- From: "JW Stephens" <lray@mindspring.com> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 2:37 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: firearm for bear/mountain lion attacks > From the historical perspective it seems that we are > talking about a new breed of creature that wasn't present in > the RMFT days. Yet ... > > (Adventures of a Mountain Man, Zenas Leonard): The Grizzly > Bear is the most ferocious animal that inhabits these > prairies, and are very numerous. They no sooner see you than > they will make at you with open mouth. If you stand still, > they will come within two or three yards of you, and stand > upon their hind feet, and look you in the face, if you have > fortitude enough to face them, they will turn and run off; > but if you turn they will most assuredly tear you to pieces; > furnishing strong proof of the fact, that no wild beast, > however daring and ferocious, unless wounded, will attack > the face of man. (page 16) > > > (Adventures of a Mountain Man, Zenas Leonard, subsection > "Adventures of Fitzpatrick" 'in his own words'): One day > after a toilsome ride, I dismounted, turned my horse loose > to graze and seated myself on a rock, with the little > remaining provision I had, to refresh myself. While thus > seated resting my wearied limbs, and satisfying the gnawings > of hunger, I was suddenly startled by a scrambling on the > rocks immediately in my rear. I turned round and beheld a > huge bear approaching me in double quick time. I instantly > sprang to my feet, for I was well acquainted with his mode > of warfare. I turned and faced his lordship, when he > approached within about six feet of me, rose on his hind > feet and most impudently stared me right in the face, for > more than a minute. After discovering that I was no ways > bashful, he bowed, turned and run - I did the same, and made > for my horse. Bruin was not so easy fooled; he seen my > retreat & gave chase. I thought I could reach my horse and > mount before the bear could reach me, but the approach of > the bear frightened my beast, and just as I was going to > mount he sprang loose and threw me on the broad of my back. > The bear was at my heels, and I thought that all chance of > escape was now gone. Instantly I was again on my feet, - > and, as it were, in a fit of desperation, rushed towards the > bear, which, fearing, as they do, the face of man, again > turned and run. - Sir Bruin stopped to secure the little > morsel I had been eating, and retired a few paces to devour > it. While the bear was thus employed, I crept to my gun, > keeping the rock between him and me, having reached it, took > deliberate aim and killed him dead on the spot. > > (Adventures of a Mountain Man, Zenas Leonard in California): > After traveling a mile or so, whilst ascending a hill, > came suddenly upon an old bear and two cubs. - The bear > immediately on seeing Philips, as is their custom, reared on > her hind feet, and being very close, commenced growling most > furiously. This our hero could not brook, and fearing the > consequences if he should shoot and wound her lost his > presence of mind, and started to run - The bear immediately > pursued and caught him. He now found it quite useless to > attempt to get loose, and only saved his life by sinking to > the ground and affecting to be dead. The bear then left him, > but not with- out wounding him to such a degree that it was > a long time before he could collect strength enough to raise > to his feet. It was late at night when he reached the camp, > and was so far gone, from hunger & loss of blood, that his > life was despaired of at first. One of his arms was broke & > his body most shockingly cut and mangled. > > > (Adventures of a Mountain Man, Zenas Leonard): (Returned > from the Joseph Rutherford Walker expedition to California > and bound back for the states). 8th of August, when, as the > company were passing through a small prairie, we discovered > a large grizzly bear laying in the shade of some brush at > the edge of the woods, when four of us started for the > purpose of killing him, but on coming close, the bear heard > us and ran into the thicket. We now took separate courses, > intending to surround the bear & chase him out and have some > sport; but one man, as we came to the thicket, acted very > imprudently by dismounting and following a buffaloe path > into the brush, when the bear, hearing our horses on the > opposite side, started out on the same path and met the man, > when he attempted to avoid it by climbing a small tree, but > being too closely pressed was unable to get out of the reach > of the bear, and as it passed, caught him by the leg and > tore the tendon of his thigh in a most shocking manner. > Before we could get to his aid the bear made off and finally > escaped. > > Here we encamped and remained until the next day, when the > wounded man expired - having bled to death from the wound, > although every effort in our power was of no use. > > End citations. > > I am surprised that none have raised "the face of man" > belief in this thread previously. ("strong proof of the > fact, that no wild beast, however daring and ferocious, > unless wounded, will attack the face of man.") And I am > trying to recall which trapper, and where, is cited as > waiting until the bruin closed close enough to put the gun > into it's mouth and discharge the contents, which seems a > sure way to cause bruin to lose it's mind, but would seem to > require cajones of solid ice. > > B'st'rd > Cat country > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:35:49 -0700 From: Allen Hall <allenhall@srv.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan frock coat Hi Tom, I did not split mine on the back, and it's been just fine on many rides. Like Crazy said, if you want to split it later you can, but I'd hold off for right now. Congrats on getting the coat done, it's a lot of work, but well worth it. Come on the ride to Nationals with us this year and try it out! See ya, Allen At 11:46 PM 3/2/2004 -0700, you wrote: >well brothers, >last Saturday night, i finally had begged, borrowed and bartered enough brain tan deer skins to start me a dandy new frock coat. and Sunday night i was finished (i was really motivated i worked most of the night and all day Sunday) now i am stuck........... the body of the coat is not the tailored type. so a split up the back, to accommodate riding isn't so easy to work in to the design of the coat. i was wondering if anyone had a similar type coat, and if they have the back split? ( crazy, Allen, don't you boys have coats like that?) i have some ideas but i thought some input might be wise to seek before go ahead and split the back. >thanks, Tom #1834 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:34:30 -0700 From: "Larry" <L.Renney@bresnan.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died Just finished russell, and it is in there. June 22d our boat being completed we commenced crossing our equippage and while 5 of us were employed at this a young man by the name of Abram Patterson attempted to cross on horse back in spite of all the advice and entreaty of those present his wild and rash temper got the better of his reason and after a desperate struggle to reach the opposite bank he abandoned his horse made a few springs and sunk to rise no more--he was a native of Penna. about 23 years of age. from the notes: 41 Abraham R. Patterson came to Fort Hall on June 10, 1835, with the Hudson's bay Company party under Francis Ermatinger, and he died June 22, 1835. So his service with the Columbia River Fishing and Trading Company amounted to only 12 days. Journal of a Trapper (1834-1843) Osborne Russell - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:48:55 -0700 From: "tom" <thsb@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan frock coat Brothers, thanks for the input on my coat . I think I'll take your advice and wait a bit before i start cutting. see ya out on the ground, Tom #1834 PRP > [Original Message] > From: Allen Hall <allenhall@srv.net> > To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> > Date: 3/3/2004 9:35:54 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan frock coat > > Hi Tom, > > I did not split mine on the back, and it's been just fine on many rides. > Like Crazy said, if you want to split it later you can, but I'd hold off for > right now. > > Congrats on getting the coat done, it's a lot of work, but well worth it. > Come on the ride to Nationals with us this year and try it out! > > See ya, > > Allen > > At 11:46 PM 3/2/2004 -0700, you wrote: > >well brothers, > >last Saturday night, i finally had begged, borrowed and bartered enough > brain tan deer skins to start me a dandy new frock coat. and Sunday night > i was finished (i was really motivated i worked most of the night and all > day Sunday) now i am stuck........... the body of the coat is not the > tailored type. so a split up the back, to accommodate riding isn't so easy > to work in to the design of the coat. i was wondering if anyone had a > similar type coat, and if they have the back split? ( crazy, Allen, don't > you boys have coats like that?) i have some ideas but i thought some input > might be wise to seek before go ahead and split the back. > >thanks, Tom #1834 > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:05:59 -0700 (MST) From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died Larry, I first read Russell's journal 23 years ago when I lived in Wyoming surrounded by the land that he wrote about. I knew A drowning was in there. I never doubted that. That's 1 drowning and counting. I think there are a couple of death's in there from indian battles. Maybe I just don't remember the more mundane death's in these journals. A coworker once told me that there were more black cowboys than white cowboys. I didn't believe that either. And guess what? It ain't true. I'd just like to see these fatality figures and the source before I believe it. If it's true I bet the figures are close. I grew up in Missouri, bb > Just finished russell, and it is in there. June 22d our boat being > completed we commenced crossing our equippage and while 5 of us were > employed at this a young man by the name of Abram Patterson attempted to > cross on horse back in spite of all the advice and entreaty of those > present > his wild and rash temper got the better of his reason and after a > desperate > struggle to reach the opposite bank he abandoned his horse made a few > springs and sunk to rise no more--he was a native of Penna. about 23 years > of age. > > from the notes: 41 Abraham R. Patterson came to Fort Hall on June 10, > 1835, > with the Hudson's bay Company party under Francis Ermatinger, and he died > June 22, 1835. So his service with the Columbia River Fishing and Trading > Company amounted to only 12 days. > > Journal of a Trapper (1834-1843) Osborne Russell > > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:08:24 -0700 (MST) From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died The indians drowned the mountain men!!!!! It was a trick fact! Why you old sly coyote! > Your wrong bb. Indians don't write they use hand sign and smoke signals > for > nonverbal communication. > > Sorry Crazy, I wont be joining you boys. Toas Tom and I are headed south > to > put the horses to a little use in the desert. Someday I will get > motivated > to put together a better deep snow outfit with tabbogan and snowshoes but > so > far my stick has not floated that way. > > This talk of drowning has put an altogether different meaning to "the way > your stick floats" doesn't it? And sorry for the gross stereotyping of > Native Americans I just couldn't resist. > Wynn > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> > To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died > > >> I'd like to read that info too cause I'm having a hard time believing >> that more guys died by drowning then indian attacks. Maybe an indian >> wrote that report! >> bb >> >> > Crazy >> > Please do a little mental digging or maybe someone else can tell me > where >> > I could get the info on drowning. I am working on an article for the > T&LR >> > that would be well supported by the information that you are >> suggesting > is >> > there. >> > >> > Thank You >> > Wynn >> > >> > >> >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #1327 ******************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.