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hist_text-digest       Monday, October 20 2003       Volume 01 : Number 1253



In this issue:

-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Fish Hooks, knots, and all thumbs and no memory
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: gorges
-áááááá MtMan-List: Caliber vs balls to the pound

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:28:03 -0700
From: "roger lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fish Hooks, knots, and all thumbs and no memory

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I guess Sparks you could call it a nail knot but you don't need the =
nail. In a nail knot you wrap the line around the nail and then pass it =
along the nail to finish it. In the knot I described you wrap the line =
around itself using your two fingers. Fishing stores sell the same knot =
already tied around a piece of plastic tubing so you can slip your line =
through it, slip the tubing out and cinch the knot tight to form a knot =
on your line that you can adjust for slip bobbers.=20

Capt. Lahti'


  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: James and Sue Stone=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 6:47 PM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fish Hooks, knots, and all thumbs and no =
memory


  Sound like you are describing a "nail knot?"
  Sparks

  roger lahti wrote:

Monte,

I'll bet you could find directions for some suitable knots doing a =
Google
search but if your impatient I'll test my communication skills and see =
if I
can walk you through it.

I like to start with the bend of the hook to my right and the shank to =
my
left, held horizontal and in thumb and fore finger of my left hand. Now =
what
I want to do is tie a knot on that shank so the leader trails off the =
end of
the shank to my left.

To start the knot: Think of a loop-d'-loop like in a kid's little car =
track
The line starts on the top of the shank at the bend (this is the end of =
the
leader though it can stick out over the bend an inch or so, just so it's =
not
too long) and then the line makes a loop up and towards the bend and =
then
back along the shank. With an eyed hook the line would go through the =
eye at
this point but we don't got no eye in the hook so it just lays along the =
top
of the shank and goes off to the left through your fingers and left hand =
so
its out of the way. Make it as long or as short as you want but that =
will be
your finished leader for that hook.

OK, we got the loop. And we are controlling that loop along with the =
hook
shank with our thumb and index finger. Now the trick part. You want that
loop big enough so you can get the first two fingers of your right hand
inside it easily. So the loop itself at this point might actually be a =
few
inches across, say maybe three or four inches. By spinning the loop in =
those
two right hand fingers your going to wrap just one leg of that loop =
around
the shank and with dexterous use of the odd finger in that loop your =
going
to keep the other leg of the loop along the shank.

It's natural for the bend facing leg of the loop to be kept along the =
shank
and the left leg going around both the shank and the right leg of the =
loop.
Got the picture of the motion? As you spin the loop with those two =
fingers
the index finger will easily keep the front leg laying along the shaft =
as
the middle finger brings the loop around the bend, point of the hook and =
the
short end of the leader.

In other words what you are doing is "Whipping" a hook shank instead of =
the
end of a rope or line or small stuff. But your doing it in one motion
instead of having a hidden loop that you would normally tuck the end of =
the
whipping through after several wraps around the rope and tucking it out =
of
the way by pulling on the other end. Maybe I shouldn't have offered that
analogy.

Well anyway if you wrap the loop around and let it form in the proper
direction, forward towards the bend, when your done you just tug on the
leader end and snug it up and it binds itself around the shank quite
handily. Might take a couple try's before you loose the leader and the =
knot
falls apart before you've taken a few wraps around the shank. Keep at =
it. If
it's not possible to understand these directions then we'll just have to
find a picture. <G>

Capt. Lahti'


- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Monte Holder" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 12:49 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Fish Hooks, knots, and all thumbs and no memory


  I don't  know about the fingers, sometimes I seem to be all thumbs.  =
Now
    if
  I could just remember where I saw those directions for making eyeless
    hooks
  out of finish nails....  I've seen snelled hooks in the sporting goods
section at the local Walmart but never bought any.

Monte HOlder
on the bluffs above the Blackwater
Saline COunty Missouri

    There is a similar knot to the nail knot that we use but doesn't =
require
      a
  nail or similar tool. ......... Oh, yea it does require that you =
follow
      directions and have at least
    two fingers on one hand and maybe a finger and thumb on the other! =
<G>
      I'd
  call it a snelling knot but that might not be correct. It's the knot
      that
  is
    found on a pre-snelled hook.
      ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
   =20

- ----------------------
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I guess Sparks you could call it a nail =
knot but=20
you don't need the nail. In a nail knot you wrap the line around the =
nail and=20
then pass it along the nail to finish it. In the knot I described you =
wrap the=20
line around itself using your two fingers. Fishing stores sell the same =
knot=20
already tied around a piece of plastic tubing so you can slip your line =
through=20
it, slip the tubing out and cinch the knot tight to form a knot on your =
line=20
that you can adjust for slip bobbers. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Capt. Lahti'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail] =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">James=20
  and Sue Stone</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 14, 2003 =
6:47=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Fish =
Hooks,=20
  knots, and all thumbs and no memory</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>Sound like you are describing a "nail=20
  knot?"<BR>Sparks<BR><BR>roger lahti wrote:<BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3Dmid00ab01c392a3$50f0aaa0$e9037444@x2d1a5 =
type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">Monte,

I'll bet you could find directions for some suitable knots doing a =
Google
search but if your impatient I'll test my communication skills and see =
if I
can walk you through it.

I like to start with the bend of the hook to my right and the shank to =
my
left, held horizontal and in thumb and fore finger of my left hand. Now =
what
I want to do is tie a knot on that shank so the leader trails off the =
end of
the shank to my left.

To start the knot: Think of a loop-d'-loop like in a kid's little car =
track
The line starts on the top of the shank at the bend (this is the end of =
the
leader though it can stick out over the bend an inch or so, just so it's =
not
too long) and then the line makes a loop up and towards the bend and =
then
back along the shank. With an eyed hook the line would go through the =
eye at
this point but we don't got no eye in the hook so it just lays along the =
top
of the shank and goes off to the left through your fingers and left hand =
so
its out of the way. Make it as long or as short as you want but that =
will be
your finished leader for that hook.

OK, we got the loop. And we are controlling that loop along with the =
hook
shank with our thumb and index finger. Now the trick part. You want that
loop big enough so you can get the first two fingers of your right hand
inside it easily. So the loop itself at this point might actually be a =
few
inches across, say maybe three or four inches. By spinning the loop in =
those
two right hand fingers your going to wrap just one leg of that loop =
around
the shank and with dexterous use of the odd finger in that loop your =
going
to keep the other leg of the loop along the shank.

It's natural for the bend facing leg of the loop to be kept along the =
shank
and the left leg going around both the shank and the right leg of the =
loop.
Got the picture of the motion? As you spin the loop with those two =
fingers
the index finger will easily keep the front leg laying along the shaft =
as
the middle finger brings the loop around the bend, point of the hook and =
the
short end of the leader.

In other words what you are doing is "Whipping" a hook shank instead of =
the
end of a rope or line or small stuff. But your doing it in one motion
instead of having a hidden loop that you would normally tuck the end of =
the
whipping through after several wraps around the rope and tucking it out =
of
the way by pulling on the other end. Maybe I shouldn't have offered that
analogy.

Well anyway if you wrap the loop around and let it form in the proper
direction, forward towards the bend, when your done you just tug on the
leader end and snug it up and it binds itself around the shank quite
handily. Might take a couple try's before you loose the leader and the =
knot
falls apart before you've taken a few wraps around the shank. Keep at =
it. If
it's not possible to understand these directions then we'll just have to
find a picture. <G>

Capt. Lahti'


- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Monte Holder" <A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"><[e-mail]=
.net></A>
To: <A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"><[e-mail]=
.com></A>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 12:49 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Fish Hooks, knots, and all thumbs and no memory


  </PRE>
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">I don't  know about the =
fingers, sometimes I seem to be all thumbs.  Now
    </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=3D""><!---->if
  </PRE>
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">I could just remember where =
I saw those directions for making eyeless
    </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=3D""><!---->hooks
  </PRE>
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">out of finish nails....  =
I've seen snelled hooks in the sporting goods
section at the local Walmart but never bought any.

Monte HOlder
on the bluffs above the Blackwater
Saline COunty Missouri

    </PRE>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">There is a similar knot =
to the nail knot that we use but doesn't require
      </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=3D""><!---->a
  </PRE>
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">nail or similar tool. =
......... Oh, yea it does require that you follow
      </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=3D"">directions and have at least
    </PRE>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">two fingers on one hand =
and maybe a finger and thumb on the other! <G>
      </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=3D""><!---->I'd
  </PRE>
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">call it a snelling knot =
but that might not be correct. It's the knot
      </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=3D""><!---->that
  </PRE>
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">is
    </PRE>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">found on a pre-snelled =
hook.
      </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=3D"">----------------------
hist_text list info: <A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-freetext =
href=3D"http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xm=
ission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</A>
    </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=3D""><!---->

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ission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</A>

  </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:33:41 -0700
From: "roger lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: gorges

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With some imagination one can find a use for a gorge hook. For one, a =
small gorge with some flour dough around it will catch carp and suckers =
for two. If you make it small enough say the size of a piece of spring =
wire you can thread a worm on it and catch whatever will swallow a worm. =
Most gorge hooks are pictured as being quite large but any bird will =
provide small enough bones for such a hook and likely small enough to =
thread a worm. Dead fish carcass's have small enough bones to make such =
a hook. Small skeleton + worm or grasshopper + length of line twisted =
from available materials =3D dinner. Usually the bait is heavy enough to =
sink it in calm water. An overhanging branch enough of a pole to leave a =
"set". Be patient and allow the fish to swallow and get the "hook" =
caught in his stomach.

Capt. Lahti


  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: James and Sue Stone=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 6:55 PM
  Subject: MtMan-List: gorges


  I believe another kind of 'hook' all together is the gorge.  Gorges =
are pointed sticks or pieces of bone, ivory or whatever sharpened on =
both ends and tied along a groove in the center (imagine a carrot =
pointed on both ends and tied around the middle).  I'm not sure where in =
the world these were used.  But they certainly don't have "eyes" and =
catch fish.  Any one I ever imagined making was way too big for the fish =
available to be caught. =20
  sparks

  Paul Jones wrote:

Hello Sam,

Good to hear from you and to see your question.

First, what is your specific documentation that eyed fish hooks "were =
being
manufactured in England from 1667?" I reviewed the web-site you set out
below and did not see that representation, but perhaps I either missed =
it or
you have another reference.

Second, while eyed hooks were certainly known to fisherman for many =
hundreds
of years before 1667, they were not commonly manufactured or available, =
due,
in the main, to the poor quality of the metallurgy of the time.  In =
fact,
except for a frontpiece drawing reference on one early English tome =
(which
may be the reference to which you are referring), which appears to have =
one
of the drawings of a fly tied on what seems to be an eyed hook, and a =
later
French reference to at least one example of the manufacture of eyed =
hooks in
the 1700's---and also some eyed hooks, probably French, found at early =
sites
in Canada), I have found no reference to the use of eyed hooks (by =
"modern
fishermen) until the mid-1800's when the first patent applications for =
such
were filed.  It appears that it was after 1850 that they were =
commercially
available in any quantity, and really it was not until after the Civil =
war
that you see them advertised.  Even then, the eyeless (blind-eye or =
flats)
were still far and away the most popular styles, as they were well =
known,
easy to use and did not suffer the many defects found, even by that =
date, in
the finishing process of hook manufacture.

As to their use in the Rockies, I have yet to find any reference to the =
use
of an eyed hook, but certainly a pin or some bit of metal could have =
been
modified to make an eyed hook.  However, commercially, they do not =
appear on
any trade ledger or publication.  That being said, I would strongly =
argue
that the use of eyed hooks to reenact fur trade fishing would be =
inaccurate.
They were not being sold by any major producer during that era and there =
is
no reference to their use in the Rockies as noted above.

By the way, your reference to Kirby was of merit, as he really had the =
hook
market to himself for many years because of the high quality of his =
hooks.
But he did not advertise, ever, eyed hooks, and he was a master of =
stealing
a march on his competition, so I would respectfully suggest that had =
eyed
hooks been commonplace enough to the subject of  mass production or
widespread use, you would have seen it and heard it from him.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Regards,

Paul


- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Samuel Keller" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 10:54 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Fish Hooks


  Can anyone document eyed fish hooks in the Rocky
Mountains?

I know that they were being manufactured in England
from 1667.

"The first period of great improvement came about the
mid-17th century, when Izaak Walton and Charles Cotton
were writing the classic The Compleat Angler and Col.
Robert Venables and Thomas Barker were describing new
tackle and methods of fishing.

About this time some unknown angler attached a wire
loop or ring at the tip end of the rod, which allowed
a running line, useful for both casting and playing a
hooked fish. Barker in 1667 mentions a salmon-fishing
line of 26 yards. What was obviously needed was a
means of taking up and holding such lengths, and this
led to the invention of the reel.

Experiments with material for the line led to the use
of a gut string (mentioned by the diarist Samuel Pepys
in 1667) and of a lute string (noted by Venables in
1676). The use of a landing hook, now called a gaff,
for lifting large hooked fish from the water was noted
by Barker in 1667.

Improved methods of fishhook making were devised in
the 1650s by Charles Kirby, who later invented the
Kirby bend, a distinctive shape of hook with offset
point that is still in common use worldwide. Kirby and
his fellow hook makers, who were also needle makers,
were dispersed from their shops near Old London Bridge
by the Plague and the Great Fire of London in 1666,
and they ultimately established factories in Redditch
around 1730."

http://www.oldmaster85.com/history_of_fishing.htm

Sam


__________________________________
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The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

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 =20

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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type =
content=3Dtext/html;charset=3DISO-8859-1>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>With some imagination one can find a =
use for a=20
gorge hook. For one, a small gorge with some flour dough around it will =
catch=20
carp and suckers for two. If you make it small enough say the size of a =
piece of=20
spring wire you can thread a worm on it and catch whatever will swallow =
a worm.=20
Most gorge hooks are pictured as being quite large but any bird will =
provide=20
small enough bones for such a hook and likely small enough to thread a =
worm.=20
Dead fish carcass's have small enough bones to make such a hook. Small =
skeleton=20
+ worm or grasshopper + length of line twisted from available materials =
=3D=20
dinner. Usually the bait is heavy enough to sink it in calm water. An=20
overhanging branch enough of a pole to leave a "set". Be patient and =
allow the=20
fish to swallow and get the "hook" caught in his stomach.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Capt. Lahti</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail] =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">James=20
  and Sue Stone</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 14, 2003 =
6:55=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: =
gorges</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>I believe another kind of 'hook' all together is the =
gorge.=20
   Gorges are pointed sticks or pieces of bone, ivory or whatever =
sharpened=20
  on both ends and tied along a groove in the center (imagine a carrot =
pointed=20
  on both ends and tied around the middle).  I'm not sure where in =
the=20
  world these were used.  But they certainly don't have "eyes" and =
catch=20
  fish.  Any one I ever imagined making was way too big for the =
fish=20
  available to be caught.  <BR>sparks<BR><BR>Paul Jones wrote:<BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3Dmid001801c391a7$f66843a0$4becdecf@pwj =
type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">Hello Sam,

Good to hear from you and to see your question.

First, what is your specific documentation that eyed fish hooks "were =
being
manufactured in England from 1667?" I reviewed the web-site you set out
below and did not see that representation, but perhaps I either missed =
it or
you have another reference.

Second, while eyed hooks were certainly known to fisherman for many =
hundreds
of years before 1667, they were not commonly manufactured or available, =
due,
in the main, to the poor quality of the metallurgy of the time.  In =
fact,
except for a frontpiece drawing reference on one early English tome =
(which
may be the reference to which you are referring), which appears to have =
one
of the drawings of a fly tied on what seems to be an eyed hook, and a =
later
French reference to at least one example of the manufacture of eyed =
hooks in
the 1700's---and also some eyed hooks, probably French, found at early =
sites
in Canada), I have found no reference to the use of eyed hooks (by =
"modern
fishermen) until the mid-1800's when the first patent applications for =
such
were filed.  It appears that it was after 1850 that they were =
commercially
available in any quantity, and really it was not until after the Civil =
war
that you see them advertised.  Even then, the eyeless (blind-eye or =
flats)
were still far and away the most popular styles, as they were well =
known,
easy to use and did not suffer the many defects found, even by that =
date, in
the finishing process of hook manufacture.

As to their use in the Rockies, I have yet to find any reference to the =
use
of an eyed hook, but certainly a pin or some bit of metal could have =
been
modified to make an eyed hook.  However, commercially, they do not =
appear on
any trade ledger or publication.  That being said, I would strongly =
argue
that the use of eyed hooks to reenact fur trade fishing would be =
inaccurate.
They were not being sold by any major producer during that era and there =
is
no reference to their use in the Rockies as noted above.

By the way, your reference to Kirby was of merit, as he really had the =
hook
market to himself for many years because of the high quality of his =
hooks.
But he did not advertise, ever, eyed hooks, and he was a master of =
stealing
a march on his competition, so I would respectfully suggest that had =
eyed
hooks been commonplace enough to the subject of  mass production or
widespread use, you would have seen it and heard it from him.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Regards,

Paul


- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Samuel Keller" <A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"><[e-mail]></A>
To: <A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"><[e-mail]></A>=

Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 10:54 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Fish Hooks


  </PRE>
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">Can anyone document eyed =
fish hooks in the Rocky
Mountains?

I know that they were being manufactured in England
from 1667.

"The first period of great improvement came about the
mid-17th century, when Izaak Walton and Charles Cotton
were writing the classic The Compleat Angler and Col.
Robert Venables and Thomas Barker were describing new
tackle and methods of fishing.

About this time some unknown angler attached a wire
loop or ring at the tip end of the rod, which allowed
a running line, useful for both casting and playing a
hooked fish. Barker in 1667 mentions a salmon-fishing
line of 26 yards. What was obviously needed was a
means of taking up and holding such lengths, and this
led to the invention of the reel.

Experiments with material for the line led to the use
of a gut string (mentioned by the diarist Samuel Pepys
in 1667) and of a lute string (noted by Venables in
1676). The use of a landing hook, now called a gaff,
for lifting large hooked fish from the water was noted
by Barker in 1667.

Improved methods of fishhook making were devised in
the 1650s by Charles Kirby, who later invented the
Kirby bend, a distinctive shape of hook with offset
point that is still in common use worldwide. Kirby and
his fellow hook makers, who were also needle makers,
were dispersed from their shops near Old London Bridge
by the Plague and the Great Fire of London in 1666,
and they ultimately established factories in Redditch
around 1730."

<A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-freetext =
href=3D"http://www.oldmaster85.com/history_of_fishing.htm">http://www.old=
master85.com/history_of_fishing.htm</A>

Sam


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Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:11:02 -0600
From: "Wynn Ormond" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Caliber vs balls to the pound

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0064_01C39757.0C8B23A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Can someone give me a rough idea how balls to a pound relates to =
caliber?  Specifically, Sage refers to 40 balls to a pound as a minium =
for buffalo.  What would that relate to that I would know?

Wynn Ormond

- ------=_NextPart_000_0064_01C39757.0C8B23A0
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Can someone give me a rough idea =
how balls to=20
a pound relates to caliber?  Specifically, Sage refers to 40 =
balls to=20
a pound as a minium for buffalo.  What would that relate to =
that I=20
would know?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wynn Ormond</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

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