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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest)
To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #1180
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
hist_text-digest Monday, March 31 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1180
In this issue:
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: post 1840
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: leather halter tops
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: post 1840
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: post 1840
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
-áááááá MtMan-List: unsubscribe
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List:post 1840 (long winded...again)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List:post 1840 (long winded...again)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 18:42:30 -0800
From: "Bear Kelsey" <tubears@charter.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: post 1840
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<Love some of the girls going around in breech clout and honour shirts.>
I remember a young "lady" at the first rendezvous we went to back in, =
well I can't remember when but it was up on the Boulder River from Big =
Timber. She was dressed in leggings, breech clout and a fairly short =
shirt.=20
I been' comin' back every since!
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
Seen one at a rondy in Washington state once that had a rather short =
halter top made from buck skin. Her problem was fallout every time she =
bent over to look at trade goods on the ground. Didn't seem to bother =
her to much. She would just reach up and stuff them back in and go right =
on chatting with whoever she was talking to. When I seen what was going =
on, I took all my trade goods off the tables that I had and put them on =
blankets on the ground. It was worth the trouble, too!!!! "Two Bears"
- ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01C2F6EC.1E8D80E0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<DIV><Love some of the girls going around in breech clout and honour=20
shirts.></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I remember a young "lady" at the first =
rendezvous=20
we went to back in, well I can't remember when but it was up on the =
Boulder=20
River from Big Timber. She was dressed in leggings, breech clout and a =
fairly=20
short shirt. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I been' comin' back every =
since!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>YMOS<BR>Capt. Lahti'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Seen one at a rondy in Washington state =
once that=20
had a rather short halter top made from buck skin. Her problem was =
fallout every=20
time she bent over to look at trade goods on the ground. Didn't seem to =
bother=20
her to much. She would just reach up and stuff them back in and go right =
on=20
chatting with whoever she was talking to. When I seen what was going on, =
I took=20
all my trade goods off the tables that I had and put them on blankets on =
the=20
ground. It was worth the trouble, too!!!! "Two=20
Bears"</FONT></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 21:21:41 -0600
From: "James MacKannai" <mackannai@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
Capt.
I didn't know they had machine guns in the fur trade before 1860 . I'll have
to get one of those.
You know, they DID have a Jim Bridger, a Kit Carson, a Dick Leigh, lot of
Hawken rifles etc after 1840 and before 1860.
Anyway, I'd be interested in seeing discussions and events representing the
fur trade before 1860.
Jim
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 21:27:51 -0600
From: "James MacKannai" <mackannai@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leather halter tops
I didn't realize they had leather halter tops post 1840 and pre 1860. Anyway
I changed the title of the thread so people don't get mixed up about the
topic I was asking about.
Jim
>From: "Bear Kelsey" <tubears@charter.net>
>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: post 1840
>Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 18:42:30 -0800
>
><Love some of the girls going around in breech clout and honour shirts.>
>
>I remember a young "lady" at the first rendezvous we went to back in, well
>I can't remember when but it was up on the Boulder River from Big Timber.
>She was dressed in leggings, breech clout and a fairly short shirt.
>
>I been' comin' back every since!
>
>YMOS
>Capt. Lahti'
>
>
>Seen one at a rondy in Washington state once that had a rather short halter
>top made from buck skin. Her problem was fallout every time she bent over
>to look at trade goods on the ground. Didn't seem to bother her to much.
>She would just reach up and stuff them back in and go right on chatting
>with whoever she was talking to. When I seen what was going on, I took all
>my trade goods off the tables that I had and put them on blankets on the
>ground. It was worth the trouble, too!!!! "Two Bears"
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 22:39:12 -0500
From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: post 1840
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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hehe... same sorta attire as we see at the Alafia now and then in young =
ladies.... Never knew they wore skimpy leather halter tops and breech =
clout then...=20
Capt... I think we are gettin (?) to be dirty old men!!! I LOVE IT!!!
Ad
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>hehe... same sorta attire as we see at the =
Alafia now=20
and then in young ladies.... Never knew they wore skimpy leather halter =
tops and=20
breech clout then... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Capt... I think we are gettin (?) to be dirty =
old men!!! I=20
LOVE IT!!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Ad</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><BR>---<BR>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free =
by AVG=20
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 22:39:36 -0700
From: "Wynn Ormond" <cheyenne@pcu.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
- ----- Original Message -----
From: James MacKannai
>
> Anyway, I'd be interested in seeing discussions and events representing
the
> fur trade before 1860.
>
I understand where your coming from in some ways. I will look to Kurz
artwork even though its out of period and there are some writings that are
just out that are hard to ignore. It could make it a lot easier to document
some things especially with more than one artist to refer to.
Here is the problem. There are certain things that dramatically change
after 1840 and even if the typical rendezvous is not exactly correct it will
only make it worse by lightening the standards.
Think about it.
1847 Mormon settlers with wagons and the whole works.
1849 Gold Rush
Do you really want to say that all this is ok? It would be the end of the
fur trade.
Wynn Ormond
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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 21:35:56 -0800
From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
> Anyway, I'd be interested in seeing discussions and events representing
the
> fur trade before 1860.
>
> Jim
Have at it. <G>
Capt. Lahti
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 21:37:30 -0800
From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: post 1840
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Ad,
I bath daily around town. Been a dirty old man for near'on three score =
years now.
Capt. L
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Addison Miller=20
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: post 1840
hehe... same sorta attire as we see at the Alafia now and then in =
young ladies.... Never knew they wore skimpy leather halter tops and =
breech clout then...=20
Capt... I think we are gettin (?) to be dirty old men!!! I LOVE IT!!!
Ad
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free by AVG Anti Virus...
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.465 / Virus Database: 263 - Release Date: 3/25/2003
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
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content=3Dtext/html;charset=3DISO-8859-1>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ad,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I bath daily around town. Been a dirty =
old man for=20
near'on three score years now.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Capt. L</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dadmiller@citynet.net =
href=3D"mailto:admiller@citynet.net">Addison=20
Miller</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com=
</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 30, 2003 =
7:39=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: post =
1840</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>hehe... same sorta attire as we see at =
the Alafia=20
now and then in young ladies.... Never knew they wore skimpy leather =
halter=20
tops and breech clout then... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Capt... I think we are gettin (?) to be dirty =
old men!!!=20
I LOVE IT!!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Ad</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><BR>---<BR>Outgoing mail is certified Virus =
Free by AVG=20
Anti Virus...<BR>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (<A=20
=
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3/25/2003</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 23:57:49 -0600
From: "James MacKannai" <mackannai@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
Have at what?
Jim
>From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net>
>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
>Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 21:35:56 -0800
>
>
>
> > Anyway, I'd be interested in seeing discussions and events representing
>the
> > fur trade before 1860.
> >
> > Jim
>
>Have at it. <G>
>
>Capt. Lahti
>
>
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>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 00:19:35 -0600
From: "James MacKannai" <mackannai@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
Actually I think it would be quite interesting. Imagine the energy the
Mormons would apply to research of technology that couldn't help spilling
over to those men still portraying trapping in the Rocky Mountains. Saddle
research, transportation, commodities of all kinds being studied intensely
by larger numbers of people than are now involved in this endeavor. Think of
the resources at the fingertips of Mormons that would be combined with
research by people such as yourselves to add to a more complete picture.
It seems to be, as others have pointed out, that people already wear Colt
Pattersons and partake of technology considered much too late for the
rendezvous "era" and these things are accepted, because they can't be
stopped. So, if we have the evils without the benefits, why not open up the
time period and take advantage of the benefits as well?
But truly, I really only thought of continuing the portrayal, as modern
rendezvous does, of the FUR TRADE. I'm sure a few gold miners and Mormon
immigrants would walk in to our rendezvous (they already do, but they think
they're representing mountain men). I've seen covered wagons that date
beyond the fur trade at our rendezvous and all these things are accepted.
The guidelines could, if this thought was ever seriously entertained,
stipulate that this is a fur trade event, pre-1860.
Thank you, Wynn, for your thoughts and serious reply to my question.
Jim
>From: "Wynn Ormond" <cheyenne@pcu.net>
>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
>Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 22:39:36 -0700
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: James MacKannai
> >
> > Anyway, I'd be interested in seeing discussions and events representing
>the
> > fur trade before 1860.
> >
>
>I understand where your coming from in some ways. I will look to Kurz
>artwork even though its out of period and there are some writings that are
>just out that are hard to ignore. It could make it a lot easier to
>document
>some things especially with more than one artist to refer to.
>
>Here is the problem. There are certain things that dramatically change
>after 1840 and even if the typical rendezvous is not exactly correct it
>will
>only make it worse by lightening the standards.
>
>Think about it.
>1847 Mormon settlers with wagons and the whole works.
>1849 Gold Rush
>
>Do you really want to say that all this is ok? It would be the end of the
>fur trade.
>Wynn Ormond
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:17:55 -0500
From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
> Think about it.
> 1847 Mormon settlers with wagons and the whole works.
> 1849 Gold Rush
>
> Do you really want to say that all this is ok? It would be the end of the
> fur trade.
> Wynn Ormond
Was not the "end" of the fur trade in approximately 1842 with the last
Rendezvous? ....close enough to the 1840 date we use. I don't remember
where, but I think I read that that was the date of the last "real"
rendezvous in the Mountains.
Regards,
Ad
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Date: 31 Mar 2003 07:13:16 -0800
From: "Curtis Krouse" <kc16@qwest.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
The end of the period represents the end of the rocky mountain fur trade
that held it's last rendezvous right around the year 1840. The AMM is
focussed on the rocky mountain fur trade, NOT the pioneering or frontier
days, which started shortly thereafter with people moving west to
settle. That is NOT the period of history that the AMM portrays. That
is just the way it is.
With respect to discussing pioneering or any other history in the west,
I'm sure the list would be happy to participate in that, but don't look
for anyone here to want to see that stuff in camp. Discussions about
what is appropriate and what isn't is pretty simple. Anything from 1840
or earlier. I don't have any problem with Patterson's or any other
article in camp. But, I do have problems with plastic, bic lighters,
cheese covered with red wax, and factory rolled cigarettes.....ALL of
which date way later and ALL of which I've seen in camps....even in
Nationals. Those are the things that I would like to see out of camp.
James, if you want to start a discussion about 1840 to 1850...start off
with it. I'm sure someone will take the bait and do some reading and
provide you with some discussion. Just don't expect too much activity
because most of us are still busy studying pre-1840.
Blood
On Mon, 2003-03-31 at 06:17, Addison Miller wrote:
> > Think about it.
> > 1847 Mormon settlers with wagons and the whole works.
> > 1849 Gold Rush
> >
> > Do you really want to say that all this is ok? It would be the end of the
> > fur trade.
> > Wynn Ormond
>
> Was not the "end" of the fur trade in approximately 1842 with the last
> Rendezvous? ....close enough to the 1840 date we use. I don't remember
> where, but I think I read that that was the date of the last "real"
> rendezvous in the Mountains.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ad
>
>
>
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>
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:17:02 +0100
From: Windwalker <windwalker@fastmail.fm>
Subject: MtMan-List: unsubscribe
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:56:48 -0500
From: "Tim J." <tjewell@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840 (long winded...again)
I think the question here is, what/who are we trying to portray? One of the
problems defining this is the use of generic terms: i.e.. "fur trade",
"mountain man" and "rendezvous" are prime examples. The "fur trade"
actually extends from the early 1600's to present. "Mountain Man" could be
from the end of the L & C expedition to present (there are some on this list
that could realistically be called mountain men). Finally, "Rendezvous"
could encompass the time of the first western rendezvous up to today.
The goal for many in this hobby is to acurately portray a "snapshot" in
time. There is something exception in being able to walk around a camp (or
site) and have everyone and everything correct to an era.
In any "living history" enviroment it is best to choose a specific time
frame (era) to portray. The original intent of our modern "rendezvous"
system was to portray the era of the original western rendezvous (circa
1820-1840). In order to include the growing interest in the eastern part of
the country we often expand the time frame to include 1750 to 1840. Even
this expansion has created a paradox of sorts. If you go to a modern
rendezvous you will see accrouments and persona's from the French and Indian
war to the Revolutionary War to the western mountain man all in one jumble.
As a social event it is great fun, as a "living history" function it does
little to portray things as they actually happened.
The major problem with expanding a time frame is that many people
don't/won't pick a persona and give an acurate portrayal of that persona.
You can walk around any unjuried event and see a man/woman dressed in
colonial clothes, living in a miners tent (or circa 1900's Baker) furnished
with reservation era beadwork/artwork. This is hardly an accurate portrayal
of anything.
A secondary problem is that some people will expand the time frame on their
own and try to use items that are out of time by many years (Stetson hats
are one example)... so where do you create/enforce a cut-off point. The
larger the time frame and the greater the number of exceptions made the
worse this problem becomes.
There are venues to portray almost any choosen time. The AMM, the
Longrifles and other groups choose their specific era to accurately depict
*that* time and have *that* exceptional experience.
Your concept is admirable but seems to me to be unpractical for any accurate
portrayal of an era.
Just my two cents worth,
Tim
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------------------------------
Date: 31 Mar 2003 08:16:44 -0800
From: "Curtis Krouse" <kc16@qwest.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840 (long winded...again)
OR.....Jim could start his own group to study and preserve 1840 to
1860. That is another solution.
My 2 cents makes 4 cents,
Blood
On Mon, 2003-03-31 at 07:56, Tim J. wrote:
> I think the question here is, what/who are we trying to portray? One of the
> problems defining this is the use of generic terms: i.e.. "fur trade",
> "mountain man" and "rendezvous" are prime examples. The "fur trade"
> actually extends from the early 1600's to present. "Mountain Man" could be
> from the end of the L & C expedition to present (there are some on this list
> that could realistically be called mountain men). Finally, "Rendezvous"
> could encompass the time of the first western rendezvous up to today.
>
> The goal for many in this hobby is to acurately portray a "snapshot" in
> time. There is something exception in being able to walk around a camp (or
> site) and have everyone and everything correct to an era.
>
> In any "living history" enviroment it is best to choose a specific time
> frame (era) to portray. The original intent of our modern "rendezvous"
> system was to portray the era of the original western rendezvous (circa
> 1820-1840). In order to include the growing interest in the eastern part of
> the country we often expand the time frame to include 1750 to 1840. Even
> this expansion has created a paradox of sorts. If you go to a modern
> rendezvous you will see accrouments and persona's from the French and Indian
> war to the Revolutionary War to the western mountain man all in one jumble.
> As a social event it is great fun, as a "living history" function it does
> little to portray things as they actually happened.
>
> The major problem with expanding a time frame is that many people
> don't/won't pick a persona and give an acurate portrayal of that persona.
> You can walk around any unjuried event and see a man/woman dressed in
> colonial clothes, living in a miners tent (or circa 1900's Baker) furnished
> with reservation era beadwork/artwork. This is hardly an accurate portrayal
> of anything.
>
> A secondary problem is that some people will expand the time frame on their
> own and try to use items that are out of time by many years (Stetson hats
> are one example)... so where do you create/enforce a cut-off point. The
> larger the time frame and the greater the number of exceptions made the
> worse this problem becomes.
>
> There are venues to portray almost any choosen time. The AMM, the
> Longrifles and other groups choose their specific era to accurately depict
> *that* time and have *that* exceptional experience.
>
> Your concept is admirable but seems to me to be unpractical for any accurate
> portrayal of an era.
>
> Just my two cents worth,
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:14:46 -0800
From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
Your discussion of post 1840 fur trade.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "James MacKannai" <mackannai@hotmail.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
> Have at what?
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net>
> >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> >To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
> >Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 21:35:56 -0800
> >
> >
> >
> > > Anyway, I'd be interested in seeing discussions and events
representing
> >the
> > > fur trade before 1860.
> > >
> > > Jim
> >
> >Have at it. <G>
> >
> >Capt. Lahti
> >
> >
> >----------------------
> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:23:10 -0600
From: "James MacKannai" <mackannai@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
Blood & Al,
I'm not too interested in a "pioneer" rendezvous either. I'm sorry I am not
a better writer so everyone would understand that. My communication skills
are lacking. I should have finished colledge like Beaverboy instructed.
I disagree that the fur trade ended in 1840. Even rendezvous lasted a little
longer than that. It is my understanding that the fort system (such as
Wyeth's "stone" and Fort Laramie made the rendezvous obsolete by becoming
stable supply stations. Beaver fell and rendezvous dried up but the fur
trade and trapping continued. These mountain men merely replaced rendezvous
supplies with those they picked up at various forts and continued to trap
and trade with the Indians. These men who came later interest me. They were
real mountain men. Many had an attitude more like the men in the present AMM
than those who came earlier; men like Lewis Garrard's John Smith (1847)who
left the east for the love of the west or the hate of confinement rather
than Wyeth who came for the profit.
Believe me, I know "that is just the way it is". There is no place to go to
join with others to celebrate the 1840-1860 period in general let alone a
place to meet with people whose interest focuses on the fur trade of that
period (even though a tremendous amount of such information is used to
portray the pre-1840's) The Civil War people only touch on that period, the
Indian Wars groups enact about the same time as Civil War, and both portray
soldiers that I have little interest in. etc.) There is no formal venue to
portray the 1840-60 period of the Rocky Mountain trapper. That is just the
way it is.
I see there is much opposition to the idea. That is what I really wanted to
know. Thank you for your thoughts.
Jim
>From: "Curtis Krouse" <kc16@qwest.net>
>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
>Date: 31 Mar 2003 07:13:16 -0800
>
>The end of the period represents the end of the rocky mountain fur trade
>that held it's last rendezvous right around the year 1840. The AMM is
>focussed on the rocky mountain fur trade, NOT the pioneering or frontier
>days, which started shortly thereafter with people moving west to
>settle. That is NOT the period of history that the AMM portrays. That
>is just the way it is.
>
>With respect to discussing pioneering or any other history in the west,
>I'm sure the list would be happy to participate in that, but don't look
>for anyone here to want to see that stuff in camp. Discussions about
>what is appropriate and what isn't is pretty simple. Anything from 1840
>or earlier. I don't have any problem with Patterson's or any other
>article in camp. But, I do have problems with plastic, bic lighters,
>cheese covered with red wax, and factory rolled cigarettes.....ALL of
>which date way later and ALL of which I've seen in camps....even in
>Nationals. Those are the things that I would like to see out of camp.
>
>James, if you want to start a discussion about 1840 to 1850...start off
>with it. I'm sure someone will take the bait and do some reading and
>provide you with some discussion. Just don't expect too much activity
>because most of us are still busy studying pre-1840.
>
>Blood
>
>On Mon, 2003-03-31 at 06:17, Addison Miller wrote:
> > > Think about it.
> > > 1847 Mormon settlers with wagons and the whole works.
> > > 1849 Gold Rush
> > >
> > > Do you really want to say that all this is ok? It would be the end of
>the
> > > fur trade.
> > > Wynn Ormond
> >
> > Was not the "end" of the fur trade in approximately 1842 with the last
> > Rendezvous? ....close enough to the 1840 date we use. I don't remember
> > where, but I think I read that that was the date of the last "real"
> > rendezvous in the Mountains.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ad
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
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>
>
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