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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest)
To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #1174
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
hist_text-digest Tuesday, March 25 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1174
In this issue:
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Trapline Mystery
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
-áááááá MtMan-List: Mountain Man list; char cloth
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Trapline Mystery
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man list; char cloth
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Trapline Mystery
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man list; char cloth
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man list; char cloth
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Trapline Mystery
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man list; char cloth
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man list; char cloth
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Trapline Mystery
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man list; char cloth
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: 1803 Harpers Ferry fullstock?
-áááááá MtMan-List: Hairy Lizard
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: Gun Cleaning in the Mtns
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 16:20:01 -0500
From: hawknest4@juno.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
blood
can't give you the references but somewhere i found a ref of packing
materials being used that was tow---similar to as we us using paper or
the plastic popcorn things today---could it be they used this packing or
tow for cleaning and it not being highly listed because of this---how was
glass packed or other things that could be damaged or broken---dont find
much documentation in this area---as you know they would utilized
anything they had available such as tow.
just a pasing thought in your conversating--sorry to but in---
YMHOS
hawk
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:34:54 EST
From: FSLark@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trapline Mystery
- --part1_3d.2da2ca47.2bb2419e_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 3/25/03 11:49:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
flintlocknfur@hotmail.com writes:
> We were talking Cat an wolf, not Dog. when assesing a track using our
> standards as to reliability the only sure way to be sure it is not a cat
> (were talking 200lb+ lion here) Is to see the presence of claw marks. Size
> is not a good indicator, but few dogs with 4-5 inch tracks will be found
> traveling in a group far away from a road.
>
>
I believe I must respectfully disagree with this statement. The shape of ALL
cat tracks is noticeably different from ALL dog tracks. The charactaristics
described in my earlier post hold true. I have tracked many cats, bobcats,
dogs, and coyotes. I even observed a Florida panther's tracks. No wolves in
Florida to track. I even have plaster castes of many ot there tracks. The
claw marks are not the clear indicator so many think they are. As I stated
earlier, I have seen claw marks in feline tracks. I am not alone in my
assessment. Check the Halfpeny book I cited earlier as well as Olaus Murie's
field guide to animal tracks and any of the other books out there.
Frank
- --part1_3d.2da2ca47.2bb2419e_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 3/25/03 11:49:52 AM Eastern Standar=
d Time, flintlocknfur@hotmail.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">We were talking Cat an wolf, no=
t Dog. when assesing a track using our <BR>
standards as to reliability the only sure way to be sure it is not a cat <BR=
>
(were talking 200lb+ lion here) Is to see the presence of claw marks. Size <=
BR>
is not a good indicator, but few dogs with 4-5 inch tracks will be found <BR=
>
traveling in a group far away from a road.<BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
I believe I must respectfully disagree with this statement. The shape=20=
of ALL cat tracks is noticeably different from ALL dog tracks. The cha=
ractaristics described in my earlier post hold true. I have tracked many cat=
s, bobcats, dogs, and coyotes. I even observed a Florida panther's tra=
cks. No wolves in Florida to track. I even have plaster castes o=
f many ot there tracks. The claw marks are not the clear indicator so=20=
many think they are. As I stated earlier, I have seen claw marks in fe=
line tracks. I am not alone in my assessment. Check the Halfpeny=
book I cited earlier as well as Olaus Murie's field guide to animal tracks=20=
and any of the other books out there. <BR>
Frank</FONT></HTML>
- --part1_3d.2da2ca47.2bb2419e_boundary--
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 17:03:21 -0700
From: Charlie P Webb <cwebbbpdr@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
Tow is the waste product of processing flax to be spun into linen thread.
Old Coyote
>
> -. Maybe tow
> > is something other
> > than what we think it is.
>
> Tow was used as packing material-basically the
> "peanuts" of the day. This could be why it's not
> mentioned often in trade lists.
>
> =====
> "It is much easier to be critical than to be correct"...Disrael
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your
> desktop!
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> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 17:01:04 -0700
From: Charlie P Webb <cwebbbpdr@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
Tow is the waste product of processing flax to be spun into thread.
Old Coyote
> -. Maybe tow
> > is something other
> > than what we think it is.
>
> Tow was used as packing material-basically the
> "peanuts" of the day. This could be why it's not
> mentioned often in trade lists.
>
> =====
> "It is much easier to be critical than to be correct"...Disrael
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your
> desktop!
> http://platinum.yahoo.com
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info:
> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:47:55 -0600
From: "James MacKannai" <mackannai@hotmail.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Man list; char cloth
Capt.
I figured out why L&C never had much cloth left at the end of their jaunt;
they used it up making char cloth!
What do you think?
Jim
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:18:55 -0700 (MST)
From: <beaverboy@sofast.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trapline Mystery
> You'll notice that I didn't even mention claw marks. I often see dog
> tracks without claw marks and have seen cat tracks with claw marks
> before. Frank
This would be the exception Frank. As I said early just go look at a
house cat tracks and see how many of them have claw marks. An
experienced trapper/tracker can tell the difference between cat and
canine tracks at a glance.
I seldom ever see claw marks on cat tracks and of course their shape
is quite different than a canines.
To try and explain the difference in tracks on the enternet or over
the phone is nearly impossible. That is why I told him to make a
plaster cast or take some very clear photos with something to show
the scale and show it to an experienced tracker. If they are clear
prints/photos he'll be able to tell them what they are in a second.
Most people with limited tracking skills have no idea what tracks
they are looking at or what a fresh track is. Most don't even notice
half the sign that is around them.
Respectfully,
bb
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:43:33 -0700 (MST)
From: <beaverboy@sofast.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man list; char cloth
> Capt.
>
> I figured out why L&C never had much cloth left at the end of their
> jaunt; they used it up making char cloth!
>
> What do you think?
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 17:45:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Samuel Keller <wolftalk_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trapline Mystery
There ia an online site with excellent drawings of
Animal Tracks. It is at
http://www.bear-tracker.com/mammals.html
Sleeping Bear
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:54:25 -0700 (MST)
From: <beaverboy@sofast.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man list; char cloth
> I figured out why L&C never had much cloth left at the end of their
> jaunt; they used it up making char cloth!
Jim,
They probably traded it for roots, salmon and sex. Which would you
rather have? A warm fire, warm bedmate or a full belly? That fire at
Clatsop never went out I bet,ever.
bb
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:59:09 -0700 (MST)
From: <beaverboy@sofast.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
I can't get enough of seeing through the eyes of the trappers
> and I want to see what they saw as near as I can.
Wait till you see a pile of dead beaver on the floor and know that no
one is going to help you skin and stretch them. After a few nights of
skinning till midnight you'll have seen enough. That's another reason
so many of them trappers started trading for them pelts.
bb
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 20:03:36 -0600
From: "James MacKannai" <mackannai@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man list; char cloth
>From: <beaverboy@sofast.net>
>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man list; char cloth
>Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:54:25 -0700 (MST)
>
>
> > I figured out why L&C never had much cloth left at the end of their
> > jaunt; they used it up making char cloth!
>
> Jim,
> They probably traded it for roots, salmon and sex. Which would you
>rather have? A warm fire, warm bedmate or a full belly? That fire at
>Clatsop never went out I bet,ever.
> bb
Beaverboy,
Me and Jed Smith would just say a little prayer that ya'll didn't catch
somethin' from them squaws. (I was just kidding about the used up clothing
being used as char cloth). I am thinking that a few years of research will
provide an answer to the char cloth thing. Till I know better I'm going to
get into punk (not the blue hair kind neeeether). Ketch any beaver today?
Jim
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 20:02:43 -0800
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
Some folks are talking like it takes 100 yards of cloth a year just to make
char. I will repeat for them what can't read that I've been working on the
same scrap of linen for more than 20 years. That includes many
demonstrations of lighting a candle direct from char (which takes lots more
than simply starting a fire) plus what I used to light what was a heavy
tobacco habit. It only takes a tiny dab if you are doing it right.
The point of what we (The AMM) do is to learn from the doing. Too many
only want to learn what they can read about, doing takes too much effort.
Documentation is a useful place to start learning, but, we are not hampered
by the "if-it-ain't-wrote-down-three-times-somewhere -- it ain't" problem
that reenactors enjoy.
It is more important to learn how to make fire; no matter what you don't
have; than to worry about whether someone (back then) wrote something
specific to answer a question the old timers would have considered a waste
of good paper and ink.
I have mentioned moss and lamp wicks, the Capt mentions cottonwood, several
others have spoken of fungus, rotted wood of various descriptions (I do
wonder where they found sugar maple in the Rockies?), and other combustible
stuff that can be charred enough to catch a spark. The inner bark of cedar
works well, the inner bark of palm trees in LA is spectacular tinder. Rope
can be used, there is a lot more other stuff that can be used.
Learn to make do with what is currently at hand, that's what they had to
work with, sometimes cloth, sometimes not. Live with it.
The silly little idea that they were too frightened to gather stuff for
fire is ludicrous. If they were that scared there was no need for a fire.
John...
At 09:17 AM 3/25/03, you wrote:
>There are cotton wood trees all along almost any stretch of water way you
>can think of in that part of the world. And it's hardly necessary to have
>"brush" to get a fire considering that the under duff from buffalo grass
>makes excellent tinder and let's not forget buffalo dung for fires even in
>the absence of wood in any form.
>
>YMOS
>Capt. Lahti'
Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 19:07:44 -0700 (MST)
From: <beaverboy@sofast.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
Do you know
> what else was used as packaging material?
Jim, I've seen sawdust and shreaded wood used as packing material.
I have a theory that the "eared caps" seen as drawn by
> Miller could easily be made by pulling a bag over the head and cutting
> a face hole. The ears would form much like the "ears" seen on a pillow
> case.
Jim, I'm sure you are correct on this one. I'm sure they were just old
flour sacks too. It was only a buckskinner with too much time on his
hands that made the super stylish wolf eared hats we see today.
bb
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:07:07 -0800
From: "Two Bears Kelsey" <tubears@charter.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trapline Mystery
There ia an online site with excellent drawings of
Animal Tracks. It is at
http://www.bear-tracker.com/mammals.html
Sleeping Bear
Thanks for the lead to this site, it will be really handy as I was looking
for a place to get different animal tracks for leather tooling patterns.
"Two Bears"
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 20:11:33 -0600
From: "James MacKannai" <mackannai@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
>From: <beaverboy@sofast.net>
>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
>Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:59:09 -0700 (MST)
>
> I can't get enough of seeing through the eyes of the trappers
> > and I want to see what they saw as near as I can.
>
> Wait till you see a pile of dead beaver on the floor and know that no
>one is going to help you skin and stretch them. After a few nights of
>skinning till midnight you'll have seen enough. That's another reason
>so many of them trappers started trading for them pelts.
> bb
Beaverboy,
If it is within your power to curse me back to 1829 and put a pile of beaver
at my feet and Jim Bridger across the fire dryin' his moccasins while I
skin, you just curse yourself silly.
Jim
>
>
>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:11:15 -0800
From: "Two Bears Kelsey" <tubears@charter.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man list; char cloth
Me and Jed Smith would just say a little prayer that ya'll didn't catch
somethin' from them squaws
Problem was that the "Squaws" are the ones that caught the diseases from the
white men !!! "Two Bears"
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 19:15:25 -0700 (MST)
From: <beaverboy@sofast.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man list; char cloth
> Ketch any beaver today?
>
> Jim
Didn't check them today. I had to work, as usual. Went to Billings, MT.
Crossed over the Sun, Missouri, Judith, Musselshell, and Yellowstone
all in a day,...twice. Wouldn't Colter been jealous. Saw my first
Sandhill Cranes. Must be spring.
Last week I saw thousands of snow geese on a huge marsh where I trap
rats. So many of them it looked like an ice jam out there.
Checking traps tomorrow and moving some around. Did get a nice 40
pounder yesterday. I'm not real fired up about this spring season. I'll
only take 10-20 and call it quits.
bb
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Date: 25 Mar 2003 18:23:46 -0800
From: "Curtis Krouse" <kc16@qwest.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
Hawk,
Butt in all you want bro.....this is a list that was made for people to
butt in.
I think that tow might work for cleaning unless you have a rifle gun.
Rifle's cleaning patches need to be a size that will allow a cleaning
jag to get down the bore and back up without falling off the jag and
tight enough to clean the grooves.
I think the whole jist of the discussion was about documentation of
things. My opinion about documentation is this: it's fine for people
to draw conclusions from documentation. But, when we start becoming so
anal retentive that we believe that it didn't exist unless it was
documented, then we fail to understand the fragile nature of
documentation. Anyone who has written a journal or diary should realize
the truth of not being able to accurately depict ones life by the pen.
There were plenty of things that were ordinary everyday things that one
would never even think to put in a journal. For example....If I lived
in the colonies for years and grew up in the colonies, it would be a
total assumption that people used char cloth to light things with. Once
I got out into the field, I would never mention that. It would be like
someone today mentioning the fact that they used a butane lighter to
light their pipe or cigarette. They would simply state...I lit my pipe,
or I used my lighter. Now....if I wrote down that I used my lighter and
200 years from now, someone was tasked with interpreting just exactly
what I meant by "lighter", how many interpretations do you think that we
could come up with? Let's see.....there's flint and steel with a piece
of char cloth, there's a Zippo lighter, there's a Bic lighter, there are
kitchen matches, there are book matches, there are custom made lighters
that are piezoelectric, there are all kinds of freakin' lighters.
I propose that for people to assume that the trapper's favorite way to
light a fire was through flint and steel using char cloth is fine, but
to say that they didn't use char cloth, or char wood, or two sticks, or
a hot coal is craziness really. They used them all. I was not trying
to propose that they used only char cloth.....and I'm sure that Capt
Lahti was not trying to say that they used only char wood. I think it's
pretty clear that they used whatever was convenient.....and you know
why? Because it's human nature to use whatever is convenient and put
off using the more labor intensive stuff until you have to. And I'm
sure that is what they did.
Let me ask the list this. Can someone show me documentation that the
mountain man even cleaned his gun at all? Can someone show me on a list
of trade goods that they provided screwdrivers and tools to the indians
to clean their guns? Can someone show documentation in a journal that
they ever cleaned a gun period? I'm sure that cleaning guns was a
common occurance. Or was it?
Blood
On Wed, 2003-03-26 at 13:20, hawknest4@juno.com wrote:
> blood
> can't give you the references but somewhere i found a ref of packing
> materials being used that was tow---similar to as we us using paper or
> the plastic popcorn things today---could it be they used this packing or
> tow for cleaning and it not being highly listed because of this---how was
> glass packed or other things that could be damaged or broken---dont find
> much documentation in this area---as you know they would utilized
> anything they had available such as tow.
>
> just a pasing thought in your conversating--sorry to but in---
> YMHOS
> hawk
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
> Only $9.95 per month!
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>
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>
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------------------------------
Date: 25 Mar 2003 18:34:36 -0800
From: "Curtis Krouse" <kc16@qwest.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
I don't know where anyone got the impression that I said the traders
were too scared to leave camp. That is just a result of someone not
really reading what was written.
This is the exact quote from my first email:
"Now, if I were in the mountains, loaded with company goods, I certainly
would NOT stray from camp in hostile territory to find fungus, burnt
trees, or any other substance to start the fire with. I'd be using the
reams of cloth that I had at my disposal."
I don't know how the particular individual who replied to that email got
that I was saying that the traders where too scared to wander from
camp. This is just another indication of people not reading the entire
thread of a conversation and assuming things from what they are
reading. If we in our modern civilization can't seem to communicate
things how can we read things that were written 200 years ago and derive
conclusions that are accurate. The fact is...we all have opinions...and
they are just that...opinions. The only facts that really exist are in
museums and in the actual journals themselves....not what we interpret
them to mean.
Blood
>
> The silly little idea that they were too frightened to gather stuff for
> fire is ludicrous. If they were that scared there was no need for a fire.
>
> John...
>
>
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------------------------------
Date: 25 Mar 2003 18:36:56 -0800
From: "Curtis Krouse" <kc16@qwest.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
I agree John,
I've been working on the same yard of material for 10 years. And I used
to smoke a pipe. It takes a long time to use up a yard of char
cloth....a long time. It definitely is not something that can't be
carried around and definitely wasn't something that was too expensive to
have.
Blood
On Tue, 2003-03-25 at 20:02, John Kramer wrote:
> Some folks are talking like it takes 100 yards of cloth a year just to make
> char. I will repeat for them what can't read that I've been working on the
> same scrap of linen for more than 20 years. That includes many
> demonstrations of lighting a candle direct from char (which takes lots more
> than simply starting a fire) plus what I used to light what was a heavy
> tobacco habit. It only takes a tiny dab if you are doing it right.
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 21:43:07 EST
From: FSLark@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trapline Mystery
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In a message dated 3/25/03 8:20:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
beaverboy@sofast.net writes:
> This would be the exception Frank. As I said early just go look at a
> house cat tracks and see how many of them have claw marks. An
> experienced trapper/tracker can tell the difference between cat and
> canine tracks at a glance.
> I seldom ever see claw marks on cat tracks and of course their shape
> is quite different than a canines.
> To try and explain the difference in tracks on the enternet or over
> the phone is nearly impossible. That is why I told him to make a
> plaster cast or take some very clear photos with something to show
> the scale and show it to an experienced tracker. If they are clear
> prints/photos he'll be able to tell them what they are in a second.
> Most people with limited tracking skills have no idea what tracks
> they are looking at or what a fresh track is. Most don't even notice
> half the sign that is around them.
> Respectfully,
I agree with you main points. Claws in cat tracks are indeed rare, but
clawless dog tracks are not rare.
Frank
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 3/25/03 8:20:56 PM Eastern Standard=
Time, beaverboy@sofast.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">This would be the exception Fra=
nk. As I said early just go look at a<BR>
house cat tracks and see how many of them have claw marks. An<BR>
experienced trapper/tracker can tell the difference between cat and<BR>
canine tracks at a glance.<BR>
I seldom ever see claw marks on cat tracks and of course their=20=
shape<BR>
is quite different than a canines.<BR>
To try and explain the difference in tracks on the enternet or=20=
over<BR>
the phone is nearly impossible. That is why I told him to make a<BR>
plaster cast or take some very clear photos with something to show<BR>
the scale and show it to an experienced tracker. If they are clear<BR>
prints/photos he'll be able to tell them what they are in a second.<BR>
Most people with limited tracking skills have no idea what trac=
ks<BR>
they are looking at or what a fresh track is. Most don't even notice<BR>
half the sign that is around them.<BR>
Respectfully,</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
I agree with you main points. Claws in cat tracks are indeed rare, but=
clawless dog tracks are not rare.<BR>
Frank</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 20:16:46 -0800
From: "Ben" <beb1@sisna.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man list; char cloth
LOL Two Bears :)
Let's blame it on them French trappers!!! They must be the one's that got it
started.
Ben
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Two Bears Kelsey" <tubears@charter.net>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man list; char cloth
>
> Me and Jed Smith would just say a little prayer that ya'll didn't catch
> somethin' from them squaws
>
> Problem was that the "Squaws" are the ones that caught the diseases from
the
> white men !!! "Two Bears"
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
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Date: 01 Jan 1904 00:59:59 -0600
From: Phyllis and Don Keas <pdkeas@market1.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1803 Harpers Ferry fullstock?
Not that I have ever heard. =20
On Sunday, March 23, 2003 05:55 PM, roger lahti <amm1719@charter.net> =
wrote:
>Just got a call from a young friend who is reading a novel. In the novel =
the
>author has a character going out with the Corps and coming back to =
Harpers
>Ferry to buy another rifle for his brother or whomever. In the story the
>rifle he took was a full stock 1803 Harpers Ferry and when he got back =
they
>were then being built as half stocks.
>
>Is this true? Were the Corps 1803's actually full stocks?
>
>YMOS
>Capt. Lahti'
>
>
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>hist_text list info:
>http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
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Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 22:15:13 EST
From: SWcushing@aol.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Hairy Lizard
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Capt,
You and Crawdad gonna do the Hairy Lizard thing? (Is this a crptic message,
or what!) Might be able to get away..
Magpie
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Capt,<BR>
<BR>
You and Crawdad gonna do the Hairy Lizard thing? (Is this a crptic message,=20=
or what!) Might be able to get away..<BR>
<BR>
Magpie </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 20:22:59 -0700
From: Mike Moore <amm1616@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth
Yes, I can Blood.
"That evening, I cleaned both guns,and packed them up more
carefully than I did my less important baggage."
Edwward Warren, Sir William Stewart page 39.
I think I have two or three entries that show the men in the west
from time to time did clean their guns. This one is from a article I'm
working on now. I don't think that they did it like we do today. The
metals were different in the barrels and they probably used more
natural lubes to clean and protect. Maybe some can help me with this,
but the old and forged barrels and locks were like our good cast iron
today, and could be "cured". Our modern guns don't work good with the
same treatment. Having tried to only use natural cleaning on my guns
over a long peroid, let me say that that deer on the Flat Tops was
lucky that my smooth bore rusted up and the hammer wouldn't go down
(after six days of rain/snow). It was a terrible, miserable primitive
hunt that gave us only one deer.
I figure that when expecting trouble the guns were unloaded,
cleaned and reloaded. But, you need to remember that they probably
shot everyday or every other day(for food mostly). And that kept the
guns in good working order.
mike.
> Butt in all you want bro.....this is a list that was made for
> people to butt in.
> Let me ask the list this. Can someone show me documentation that the
> mountain man even cleaned his gun at all? Can someone show
documentation in a
> journal that
> they ever cleaned a gun period? I'm sure that cleaning guns was a
> common occurance. Or was it?
>
> Blood
>
>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 19:37:01 -0800
From: Pat Quilter <pat_quilter@qscaudio.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Gun Cleaning in the Mtns
And for what it's worth--
I recall seeing manifest entries for "wiping sticks" which implies a
cleaning ramrod different than the ramrod that goes in your gunstock. And
the basic kit of tools included a tow-worm which must have been there for a
reason.
Pat Quilter
- ---------------
Yes, I can Blood.
"That evening, I cleaned both guns,and packed them up more
carefully than I did my less important baggage."
Edwward Warren, Sir William Stewart page 39.
I think I have two or three entries that show the men in the west
from time to time did clean their guns. This one is from a article I'm
working on now. I don't think that they did it like we do today. The
metals were different in the barrels and they probably used more
natural lubes to clean and protect. Maybe some can help me with this,
but the old and forged barrels and locks were like our good cast iron
today, and could be "cured". Our modern guns don't work good with the
same treatment. Having tried to only use natural cleaning on my guns
over a long peroid, let me say that that deer on the Flat Tops was
lucky that my smooth bore rusted up and the hammer wouldn't go down
(after six days of rain/snow). It was a terrible, miserable primitive
hunt that gave us only one deer.
I figure that when expecting trouble the guns were unloaded,
cleaned and reloaded. But, you need to remember that they probably
shot everyday or every other day(for food mostly). And that kept the
guns in good working order.
mike.
> Butt in all you want bro.....this is a list that was made for
> people to butt in.
> Let me ask the list this. Can someone show me documentation that the
> mountain man even cleaned his gun at all? Can someone show
documentation in a
> journal that
> they ever cleaned a gun period? I'm sure that cleaning guns was a
> common occurance. Or was it?
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