I was reading a Indian Trade List that I got off the web. It is listed as
Detroit, September 1778, Haldimand papers. In the collection it list
100 N.West Fuzells (their spelling not mine!). Here's the question:
Are they referring to the NW Trade Gun? This is the first time I've heard
of a Fussil being NW Trade Gun. What's your input? Thanks!
Traphand
Rick Petzoldt
Traphand@aol.com
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I was reading a Indian Trade List that I got off the web. It is listed as<BR>
Detroit, September 1778, Haldimand papers. In the collection it list<BR>
100 N.West Fuzells (their spelling not mine!). Here's the question:<BR>
Are they referring to the NW Trade Gun? This is the first time I've heard<BR>
of a Fussil being NW Trade Gun. What's your input? Thanks!<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>Traphand<BR>
Rick Petzoldt<BR>
Traphand@aol.com<BR>
</B></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:38:15 -0700 (MST)
From: <beaverboy@sofast.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Indian Trade List
Rick,
The correct name for the trade gun is the Northwest Gun. Which had no
connection with the Northwest Company. I prefer to call my gun a fusee.
Start telling your work buddies about your hunt with your fusee one time,
your trade gun the next time and they get all confused. Now they just call
it my "Blunderbus".
Just mentioning a hunt with your fusee to strangers usually gets a
look of, "What the heck is this guy talking about?". I usually describe it
to them as a musket which most people understand.
The Northwest Gun by Charles Hanson JR is a good book to read, also
Russel's Journal of a Trapper makes many mentions of the "indian fusils".
I read that book when I was kid and had no idea what a fusil was but knew
it was a gun. I had no idea that some day I'd be hunting with one myself
and loving it!
Beaverboy
> I was reading a Indian Trade List that I got off the web. It is
> listed as Detroit, September 1778, Haldimand papers. In the
> collection it list 100 N.West Fuzells (their spelling not mine!).
> Here's the question: Are they referring to the NW Trade Gun? This is
> the first time I've heard of a Fussil being NW Trade Gun. What's
> your input? Thanks!
>
> Traphand
> Rick Petzoldt
> Traphand@aol.com
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But or the n.west fuzzells mentioned on the list the same as the northwest trade gun .The northwest trade gun I know very well for I have owned one for over twenty years. What do you think, the trade list is from1778.<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>Traphand<BR>
Rick Petzoldt<BR>
Traphand@aol.com<BR>
</B></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 06:06:49 -0700 (MST)
From: <beaverboy@sofast.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Indian Trade List
Rick,
I'm sure it is. It says right there "n.west fuzzells". Just another one
of many variations of spellings from the old days.
I'll quote Hanson's book page 15 ," The first known reference
to "Northwest guns" appear in the journal of John Long, who traded north
of Lake Superior for an independent Montreal merchant in 1777-1780.
Speaking of a meeting with a new group of Indians with whom he intended to
trade in the winter of 1777-78 he wrote: "...I gave...to eight chiefs who
were in the band, each a North-West gun, a calico shirt, a scalping knife
of the best sort, and an additional quantity of ammuntion. These were
received with a full yo-hah, or demonstration of joy.".
That is the beauty of the Northwest gun in reinactments, you can take
them to any one in the country and no one can point a finger and
say "Thats not right!" These guns or variations or forerunners of them
were traded with the indians very early. Again from Hanson's book, page
5,"Nicholas Perrot wrote in his Memoirs that by 1630 the Iroquois had
obtained enough firearms from the Dutch to gain ascendancy over the
powerful Algonquins". Also Dr. Mayer quotes William Bradford in "Plymouth
Plantation" on the effects fo the trade in 1628:"...fills them (the
indians) with peeces, powder and shote...".
You must get a copy of this fine book especially since you own a trade
gun.
I'm sure that is a reference to an early type trade gun or variation
of one.
Beaverboy
> Beaverboy,
> But or the n.west fuzzells mentioned on the list the
> same as
> the northwest trade gun .The northwest trade gun I know very well for I
> have owned one for over twenty years. What do you think, the trade
> list is from1778.
>
> Traphand
> Rick Petzoldt
> Traphand@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:56:20 -0700 (MST)
From: <beaverboy@sofast.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Fall Beaver Trapping Campaign
Dear List,
Winter has lowered its icy grip upon the far north of the Upper
Missouri once again. 4 degrees this morning at my home in the Sun River
Valley. The cold hit us about a week ago and put an end to my water
trapping on all but the Mighty Missouri river which refuses to freeze to
the bitter end. Though we did have an even earlier cold snap at the end of
October which got to -15 below and froze all the small rivers solid, it
did warm up and the ice went off and we had 3 weeks or so of perfect
trapping weather. I found a beaver cache by no den after the ice left and
then realized the ice going off took it downriver! This must have
aggravated the beaver to no end to have all their hard work taken away.
They neednÆt had worried though as all their troubles are over as I
located the den a 1/4 mile up river and killed them all.
Pulling my traps last Wednesday was quite an experience. The Sun
River was frozen in spots, shelf ice in other, and there was overflow in
spots as well. Some of my traps were covered with two layers of ice and a
1╜ feet of water. Always take good note of where your traps are located as
it gets a lot different looking when the ice and snow comes. It was very
dangerous as the banks were covered in snow and to slide down one could
take you right out onto the thin ice. Many times that day I thought to
myself, "I have to get myself a better hobby!". I tied a rope to a tree in
several places to use as I rappelled down to my set. Moving ice is the
true enemy of the beaver trapper. When the ice starts to flow it will take
all in its way with it! I lost only one small muskrat trap to the ice, so
far. I still have one deep under the ice that I must find before winter
sets in or it will be gone in the spring. I also had one small muskrat
trap stolen but by an animal! I found only a muskrat foot left at the set
and could not ascertain, by tracks, what type of critter made a meal of
it. It was a large animal though as it was able to carry off the trap as
well as rat. It even pulled the stake! By the lack of sign I think maybe
an eagle flew off with it. Perhaps I will find that trap along the trail
someday in the future and it will make a fine tale. I was very tired, wet,
frozen and muddy by time I got all the other traps retrieved. I was hoping
for a beaver to end the line with but had to settle for a fine otter
instead!! I can rest finally and sleep in for the first time in 6 weeks as
hunting season is over and all but 3 of my traps are home and safe. But
alas it is time to hunt the long hair fur. Time to get up early again and
go out and call the coyotes at first light and in the evenings.
I ended my fall trapping campaign with 39 beaver which pleased me
well, along with other assorted water critter pelts. I thanked God for a
successful and safe fall hunt too. All the beaver were taken with my
homemade ôL&C recipe Beaver Bateö. I had hoped for another beaver to make
it an even 40 but IÆll take the otter. They are all done and in the stack
are on boards as I write. I have caught mostly large beaver too, lots of
blankets so should fare well with the buyer. There ars some real gems in
there too along with a few hatters. I sold my two otters out right just
skinned and did very well on them. I should earn enough to purchase my new
flintlock rifle kit. I am not done either. I still have several traps on
the Mighty Missouri and have several places which I can trap beaver under
the ice if I want to. I really donÆt want to though as it is such hard,
miserable, cold, wet work trapping or snaring beaver under the ice. The
pelts taken from under the ice are of premier quality however. I will see
what happens with that endeavor.
I know I will trap again in the spring when the ice goes off. I
usually commence my spring hunt as soon as the ice goes off for good which
is around February 15 in a mild winter or March 15 in a bad winter. That
time of the year the beaver can be taken in numbers as they are rutting
and much easier to trap as they are traveling about either in search of
mates or defending their territory. This is when the mound set really
shines. Mostly big (sexually mature) beaver are taken too.
As for now I shall hunt the long hair furs and await the winter
solstice and then celebrate for the days will once again grow longer.
Winter is no longer the fun it used to be for me when I was younger. I
suppose working in the cold for 20 years had taken the fun out of it for
me.
I hope everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving and hope all have a
nice Christmas!
Sincerely,
Beaverboy
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Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 08:46:40 -0700 (MST)
From: <beaverboy@sofast.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: have you seen this site??
That gentlemen had quite a collection. And sure enough there were loading
blocks there. Some nice smoothbores in his collection.
BB
> http://www.cottoneauctions.com/TomWnuck/wnuck-
accoutrements&accessories.htm
> Some of you might like to see this auction.
>
> Linda Holley
>
>
>
>
>
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Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 18:55:41 EST
From: Traphand@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fall Beaver Trapping Campaign
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love hearing about you trapping.Did it years ago in missouri.Be careful on
the ice.
Traphand
Rick Petzoldt
Traphand@aol.com
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">love hearing about you trapping.Did it years ago in missouri.Be careful on the ice. <BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>Traphand<BR>
Rick Petzoldt<BR>
Traphand@aol.com<BR>
</B></FONT></HTML>
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The rifle is a full stocked poor boy style flintlock rifle with a wooden patchbox lid and brass furniture and roman nosed stock. There isn't any carving. A nice rifle similiar to a poor boy I own with the difference being mine is percussion without a patch box and has a copper toe plate. If you I can I will photograph the article with my digital camera and then transmit it over the web on this site. M. B
beaverboy@sofast.net wrote:> Hey Mike,
What kind of rifle was it? A flinter or what? Real curious about it.
Beaverboy
> concerning this issue of whether loading blocks were used in the fur
> trade days. I refer you to the Oct issue of American Hunter Magazine,
> 1975. Article entitled: "A Real Hunters Rifle." This particular rifle
> with hunting pouch and powder horn and all accoutrements is owned by a
> collector in Virginia. Attached to the strap of the bag in the
> accompanying photo is an original loading block that is obviously very
> old. It is a single piece of hardwood with 4 bullet sized holes bored
> into it in a single line. In the holes are patched round balls. Old
> patches and old oxidized lead balls. The pouch and horn, rifle and
> accoutrements all date from before 1842. The hunter died of old age in
> 1842. Excellent article with nice color photos of the powder horn with
> a repair on it, and all of the contents of the hunting pouch along
> with the rifle. The family kept the gun until the 1970s when it was
> sold to the collector who allowed it to be photographed for the
> magazine. There is no reason to doubt the authenticity of the articles
> because the whole article was put together before people sat around and
> nit picked such subjects. At least after close axamination of the
> photos I find them to be genuine in my humble opinion. Mike B
> Wynn Ormond wrote:
>> Thanks for your answer! I suspected as much even though having no set
>> charges readly available seems counter intuitive given that they seem
>> to have had loading blocks. BTW, an pouch horn is just similar to a
>> powder horn but is flat and placed inside the huniting bag
>> instead worn outside.
>>
>> Two Feathers
>
> I will stand by my answer then that most of the art work shows a
> trapper with a horn on the outside of the pouch.
>
> I would like to see evidence of loading blocks. Other than carrying a
> few rounds in their mouth I have not seen anything of that like either.
>
> Wynn Ormond
>
>
>
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<P>The rifle is a full stocked poor boy style flintlock rifle with a wooden patchbox lid and brass furniture and roman nosed stock. There isn't any carving. A nice rifle similiar to a poor boy I own with the difference being mine is percussion without a patch box and has a copper toe plate. If you I can I will photograph the article with my digital camera and then transmit it over the web on this site. M. B
<P> <B><I>beaverboy@sofast.net</I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">> Hey Mike,<BR>What kind of rifle was it? A flinter or what? Real curious about it.<BR>Beaverboy<BR>> concerning this issue of whether loading blocks were used in the fur<BR>> trade days. I refer you to the Oct issue of American Hunter Magazine,<BR>> 1975. Article entitled: "A Real Hunters Rifle." This particular rifle<BR>> with hunting pouch and powder horn and all accoutrements is owned by a<BR>> collector in Virginia. Attached to the strap of the bag in the<BR>> accompanying photo is an original loading block that is obviously very<BR>> old. It is a single piece of hardwood with 4 bullet sized holes bored<BR>> into it in a single line. In the holes are patched round balls. Old<BR>> patches and old oxidized lead balls. The pouch and horn, rifle and<BR>> accoutrements all date from before 1842. The hunter died of old age in<BR>> 1842. Excellent article with nice color photos of the powder horn with<BR>> a repair on it, and all of the contents of the hunting pouch along<BR>> with the rifle. The family kept the gun until the 1970s when it was<BR>> sold to the collector who allowed it to be photographed for the<BR>> magazine. There is no reason to doubt the authenticity of the articles<BR>> because the whole article was put together before people sat around and<BR>> nit picked such subjects. At least after close axamination of the<BR>> photos I find them to be genuine in my humble opinion. Mike B<BR>> Wynn Ormond <OCI@PCU.NET>wrote:<BR>>> Thanks for your answer! I suspected as much even though having no set<BR>>> charges readly available seems counter intuitive given that they seem<BR>>> to have had loading blocks. BTW, an pouch horn is just similar to a<BR>>> powder horn but is flat and placed inside the huniting bag<BR>>> instead worn outside.<BR>>><BR>>> Two Feathers<BR>><BR>> I will stand by my answer then that most of the art work shows a<BR>> trapper with a horn on the outside of the pouch.<BR>><BR>> I would like to see evidence of loading blocks. Other than carrying a<BR>> few rounds in their mouth I have not seen anything of that like either.<BR>><BR>> Wynn Ormond<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> ----------------------<BR>> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html<BR>><BR>><BR>> ---------------------------------<BR>> Do you Yahoo!?<BR>> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>----------------------<BR>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</BLOCKQUOTE><p><br><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
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