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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #87 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Tuesday, June 16 1998 Volume 01 : Number 087 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 15 Jun 98 15:26:47 +0000 From: Phyllis and Don Keas <pdkeas@market1.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP Cleaner.. 3, 3, & 1, - 3 parts hydrogen peroxide, 3 parts alcohol and 1 part Murphy's Oil Soap. Cleans like you wopuldn't believe. DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS --- PROPRIETORS OF THE NADA TRADING COMPANY hawknest4 wrote: >get some non phosphated green soap and some hydrogen peroxide and some >rubbing alcohol and mix equal parts and add 1/4 water --- good cleaner >and and target shooting solvent to use on patces--- > >Hawk >michael pierce >e-mail hawknest4@juno.com > >On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:54:54 EDT <RR1LA@aol.com> writes: >>someone on the list mentioned the use of MACS13, and i recall them >>saying its >>also at NAPA stores. i have located a product at a NAPA store (called >>NAPA >>Number 13, stock number 1300), and wanted to verify that it is >>actually a >>radiator flush / rust inhibitor product. its darn cheap ($1.60 for 8 >>ounces) >>so i'm hoping this is the stuff...... please let me know. thanks. >>PJ >> >> > >_____________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > >Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com > (SMTPD32-4.03) id AEDC4CE0182; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:19:24 MDT >Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0ylRWr-0000Hw-00; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:10:01 -0600 >Received: from (xmission.xmission.com) [198.60.22.2] (drudy) > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0ylRWq-0000Hn-00; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:10:00 -0600 >Received: (from drudy@localhost) by xmission.xmission.com (8.8.8/8.7.5) id >XAA16024 for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:09:59 - -0600 (MDT) >Received: from (x12.boston.juno.com) [205.231.101.26] > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0ylOwZ-0007NP-00; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 20:24:23 -0600 >Received: (from hawknest4@juno.com) > by x12.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DFRHMDC4; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 22:22:24 EDT >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 20:12:43 -0500 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP Cleaner >Message-ID: <19980614.211330.3286.1.hawknest4@juno.com> >References: <b58736f9.35814f4f@aol.com> >X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 >X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-20 >From: hawknest4@juno.com (michael pierce) >Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >X-UIDL: 891663845 >Status: U > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 23:48:54 EDT From: <NaugaMok@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP Cleaner In a message dated 98-06-14 11:58:34 EDT, you write: << maby urin is better it was easly transported an was period corect. they used back then as an anti foweling cleaning agent. >> Urine would be awfuly hard on a barrel with all the salt & acid. I think the period correct lube most used would be bear brease, or lard mixed with bees wax, or tallow & bees wax, &, of course, spit. Urine might make a heck of a cleaner followed by a thurough drying & a grease patch to prevent rust. A more traditional use for urine was as a browning agent for finishing the outside of the barrel, so you see why I'd hesitate to use it inside the barrel. Using urine as a browning agent goes back to the Vikings -- they used it on their battle axes. It was also used in the manufacture of black powder NM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 09:07:33 -0700 From: j2hearts@juno.com (john c funk,jr) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: elk antler I think a lot of us are gonna be sick on that one.....Buffalo horns too???? John Funk Man is judged not so much by the friends he keeps but by the ones that will call him friend. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:03:05 -0700 From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP Cleaner This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD9887.D8443EC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rog I use the same stuff . Jon T - ---------- From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP Cleaner Date: Sunday, June 14, 1998 9:47 PM - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD9887.D8443EC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">Rog I use the same stuff . Jon = T ---------- From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP = Cleaner Date: Sunday, June 14, 1998 9:47 PM </body></html> - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD9887.D8443EC0-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 23:57:41 -0500 From: Terry Venden <tvenden@etex.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sons of a Trackless Forest - --------------9E9DF9006E72B6B7D2BD608C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TetonTod@aol.com wrote: > A friend recently spoke with Mark Baker at Manskers Station and > inquired > about his book. Apparently there were some problems with the quality > of the > maps when it came from the printer, so it was sent back for work > causing a > delay in shipping. So we continue to wait. > > Todd Glover - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Todd, Thanks, that what I thought also. Figured Mark would be getting it out if he had them to get out. I'm still waiting with GREAT EXPECTATIONS. At 900 + pages should be really informative. Terry, (Medicine Bear), Pineywoods Buckskinners - --------------9E9DF9006E72B6B7D2BD608C Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML> TetonTod@aol.com wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>A friend recently spoke with Mark Baker at Manskers Station and inquired about his book. Apparently there were some problems with the quality of the maps when it came from the printer, so it was sent back for work causing a delay in shipping. So we continue to wait. Todd Glover</BLOCKQUOTE> <HR WIDTH="100%">Todd, Thanks, that what I thought also. Figured Mark would be getting it out if he had them to get out. I'm still waiting with GREAT EXPECTATIONS. At 900 + pages should be really informative. Terry, (Medicine Bear), Pineywoods Buckskinners </HTML> - --------------9E9DF9006E72B6B7D2BD608C-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 01:32:25 EDT From: <NaugaMok@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP Cleaner In a message dated 98-06-15 11:05:40 EDT, you write: << Just a side note:I purchased a real nice small round tin from Panther Primitives ($1.25) for my patches as I lube them up like NM. You might check the grocery stores in your area & look for Altoids mints. These are a period candy that sells for under $2/tin -- note "tin". They were origionaly used for "breath ments" in the mid 1700's -- before the days of dental hygene. They're a pretty good sharp mint -- & the tin they come in makes a dandy patch can. I seriously doubt the labeling they use today is period, so I simply burn off the paint, buff with steel wool & lightly oil. The lid is hinges like the old Sucrets tins were, so you don't have to worry 'bout dropping the lid or misplacing it. I used to use old percussion cap tins for patch cans (again, with labels removed), but since I switched to flint lock, I don't get many of those any more. There's another candy by Cavendish & Harvey -- fruit flavored hard candys -- that also come in a tin can. These cans are realy handy for making char cloth. We seldom buy cans 'cuz why buy just a can when you can get something in it? Like the Chivas Regal tin that has a bottle of pretty good Scotch in it around Christmas time. Unfortunately, that tin has an embossed lid, but there are others that don't. When you get something that comes in a tin can with a lid, "recycle" it. < Just got my gear out to get ready for another shoot...you guessed it, I forgot to take those remaining patches out of the tin and it's rusted shut! Hmmm! Never had that happen. I have had cap tins get pin holes in them when I didn't wring out the patches enough, but it usualy took a few months. Maybe it's because I usualy oil the cnas right after I burn off the lables -- I usualy burn several at a time & if I don't oil 'em, they'll rust before I get to use 'em. NM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 03:46:53 -0500 From: Jeff Powers <kestrel@ticon.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BP Guns & Getting Kids Started in Buckskinning (not N I don't shoot anymore and "HERESY" don't even personally agree with the requirement to shoot! Being interested in the NORTHWEST COMPANY around 1790-1810 most of the canoe men from Quebec didn't even have a gun! I'm sure my GGG-Grandfather didn't have one,That illiterate frenchie was nothing more than a canoepaddeling mule! On 1998-06-15 hist_text@lists.xmission.com said to kestrel@ticon.net >X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-SBXA (Win95; I) >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Precedence: bulk >Status: >JSeminerio@aol.com wrote: >> Dear Angela >> As always a great post. >> But Why Oh Why, did you get me started ? ? ? >> I agree with your post. I do think you have slightly missed a >>very important point. The point is HOW WILL WE GET AND KEEP >>PEOPLE AND THEIR FAMILIES INTERESTED IN BUCKSKINNING. >> Because if Momma ain't happy, ain't no one happy >> For the last ten years I have been bugging booshways and clubs to >>make the extra-shooting aspect of events more important. ( I >>don't want to say non- shooting aspects, because I belive they >are vitally importatnt) > >> If you've been going to Rendezvous in the last 15 years you know >>they are not anywhere near as hellfire as they used to be. The >>gray beards have gotten older and the tenderfeet are tending to >their families. > >> People (young Families) are desperate for activites that they can >>do together that are wholesome, and not expensive (I know that is >>a totally different can of worms) and family oriented. Ithink we >>have to realize that , respond to it or realize that we will lose >>children and grandchildren to the teaching of strangers (the TV) , >>to the Mickey Mouse, pre packaged, sanitized, cartoonized, >>sterilized versions of their place in history and their place in >this country. > >> Your posts are always insightful and well thought out, and well >>researched. What part of the country are you from I would like to >>meet you and offer you a glass of grog at the fireside (no I'm >not getting fresh) > >> Thank you very much >> Watch your topknot >> JSemninerio >Well I have to say it. I have been watching this disscussion >for a while now. I have been goin to doins for 12 or 14 years or so. >I've only shot at RDV once or twice. I'm not into that. I work hard >6 or 7 days a week, when I get a day off I like to sit by the fire >and visit. There is so much history to cuss and discuss. I'll shoot >my guns when I go hunting, I visit with friends every chance I get. >Snakeshot Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 03:38:00 EDT From: <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP Cleaner ive used your methods for some 25yrs yes ways of old. im trying to have fun hear but get poked at by this and that . we are getting out of hand hear im notadvocating . the use of modern products hear. but we do take our modern medication we dont have scurvy and head lice. paracites in the intestines. i think we can reinact and then we can have fun also and not be self concious when we go to a meet and some finger pointing person say thats not period. when you take the fun out of somthing with puting someone down it is not fun anymore. i do the best i can with what i got crome tan bucks and the lot and to hell with wtih the finger pointing. i respecet a person that does it the right way. a purist. they keep it the way it was some one has to rember how was.its is one of my pet peeves. im not a purist but i injoy going to a meet and watch and learn the old ways. do you think im going to throw away my 200.00 leather bucks just because some one says its not period no way. im keeping them i made them my self me an the dear it took some time . i followed an lod patern. though !!!!!!! im 54 yrs young and when i was 10 yrs a mountian man said get your self some skins and come play.there was no mention of crome tan or this and that. or you cant come play if you dont. thats ben a few yrs ago. im still playing and maby some day ill have a coveted set of bain tans and ill make them my self. use it up wear it out make do or do without. i still am your most respctfull obediant servant. that cant spell iron toung that walks thanks capt. rodger lati ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:44:54 -0500 From: Jim Lindberg <jal@cray.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: elk antler Check with Claw, Antler and Hide out of Custer, South Dakota. I've been to the store and they were nice people. http://www.wwwtravel.com/sd/custer/cah/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 23:17:51 -0600 From: Dean Rudy <drudy@xmission.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Milton Sublette's writings At 06:33 AM 6/15/98 -0400, Darla Sublette wrote: >.. I was wondering if >anyone has encountered any journals or memoirs by Milton Sublette..... I haven't seen or heard of a journal published by Milton - but sure would be interesed in reading it! One suggestion is that I've heard that the Missouri Historical Society has a collection of manuscripts called the "Sublette Collection"; perhaps some of those papers are Milton's. I haven't had a chance to see these, so I can't say for sure. Anybody know if this collection is available on microfilm? - --------------------------------------------------------------------- Dean Rudy AMM#1530 Email: drudy@xmission.com Park City, Utah WWW: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/amm.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 09:35:21 -0600 From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BP Guns & Getting Kids Started in Buckskinning (not re: NMLRA) <JSeminerio@aol.com> wrote: > Why Oh Why, did you get me started ? ? ? <snip> HOW WILL WE GET AND KEEP >PEOPLE AND THEIR FAMILIES INTERESTED IN BUCKSKINNING. >Because if Momma ain't happy, ain't no one happy That, indeed, is the question. I'm still trying to figure out the answer ; when I was writing my last post, I began to realize that I should do more to help. I think WE REALLY NEED TO SWAP IDEAS ON THIS. I would love to hear from others on what works for them. Here in Alberta, there's not a lot of buckskinning, so we may have re-invented the wheel, but here's my tuppence worth : Howling Coyote Rendezvous is held on the Canadian Thanksgiving weekend (mid-October). They have lots of activities for those who aren't shooting. There are the usual contests for best camp, best costume, &c. There is also a campfire cooking competition, with prizes for best main dish, best dessert, &c. Dishes with a historic pedigree get extra points in the judging. The kids get to carve jack-o-lanterns or do other crafts under the supervision of a couple of adult volunteers, which leaves the parents free to do other stuff without worrying about keeping the kids from falling into the campfire. There's also a trading contest, for all ages. Everyone is given ten trade tokens when they register ; they can spend them or try to acquire more whatever way they can (short of stealing & extortion). The person with the most tokens at the end of the rendezvous gets a prize; one year, a lady swapped cookies for tokens, & walked off with the prize, a very nice Dutch oven. Another year, a teenage girl did short babysitting stints for tokens, and came in second or third. This rendezvous also brings in folks from outside the buckskinning community to give workshops & demonstrations on period skills, such as flint-knapping, making willow baskets, drop spindle spinning, &c. The workshop folks have often never heard of rendezvous before, and really enjoy it. Workshops are included with your registration. One of the most successful activities I've ever seen was an evening workshop for kids on fire-starting with flint & steel, at the Country View Rendezvous in Saskatchewan. The kids were all supplied with good-quality char cloth, flint, steel, dry wood shavings, and small kindling. As the parents looked on, a couple of volunteers went from kid to kid, helping them start a fire with flint & steel _all_by_themselves._ The parents applauded for every new fire, and the kids were absolutely thrilled. I think a few kids couldn't believe they'd actually done it! I think that the key was probably to making it easy, rather than 100% historic-- you can take the training wheels off once they've found out how much fun it is to ride the bike. What has worked for other folks? Any new ideas? Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:16:13 -0500 From: "Larry R. Weisz" <abtbirds@owc.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Elkhorn Wisconsin Rondevous Last year I went to a Rondevous up in Elkhorn, Wisconsin and wondered if anyone knew of this years dates for it. Thank You in Advance for your help Your humble servant Littlehawk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 13:24:09 -0500 From: Jim Lindberg <jal@cray.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Elkhorn Wisconsin Rondevous I've got it listed as probably July 24-26. Try calling (414)723-8724. Jim - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ /`-_ Jim Lindberg |Les Voyageurs du Val du Chippewa { . }/ 724 East Grand Avenue | \ / Chippewa Falls, WI 54729 USA |Sweete water and light laughter, |___| http://reality.sgi.com/jal/ |Until we next meete. Go Gentle. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:44:21 -0600 From: cwebbbpdr@juno.com (Charlie P. Webb) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP Cleaner I have some questions, and a few thoughts. Why do you use hot water to clean your firearm? Do you believe that every time a woodsman wanted to clean his fire arm, he stopped built a fire and heated water? What if he was in hostile territory with a fouled firearm. Would he take the chance of being discovered by enemies or spooking game by building a fire for heating water to be used for gun cleaning purposes? Hot water will clean a muzzle loading firearm, but is it the best choice? The world has long known that when hot water is poured over a piece a metal that oxidation occurs very rapidly, much faster than with cool or ambient temperature water. As a certified instructor I demonstrate muzzle loading firearm cleaning using Ice water, (Ice floating in water) ambient temperature water, ( would be typical of water carried a skin or canteen by a hunter) and hot water which I believe they seldom used. The ice water is a bit slower softening the fouling, but it does soften enough that it is entirely wiped from the barrel and breech with three to four patches. The ambient temp. water is some what quicker, but like the ice water the firearm barrel wipes clean with a just a few patches. You know about hot water, so I won't discuss it. The bottom line is, they all work! They will clean a firearm as well as any 20th Century magic elixir or solvent existing! When I am in the field I suppose that I am one of those purist types and try to live the experience as it may have been done during the time frame of my interest. I do not heat water in the field for gun cleaning, I do so for personal hygiene. But then we all know that one can bathe and get clean with cold water. I hate breaking half inch thick ice early in the morning just to wash the sleep out of my eyes.<gg> There has been mentioned on this list of several concoctions for patch lubes. One that has lived long and works well for target shooting is Moose Milk, it is very inexpensive and when your whole family shoots one needs to get by as economically as he can. Moose milk, I make it up in a twenty four ounce bottle, ( because that is what I have) one ounce of water soluble oil to twenty ounces of ambient water. then to the whole mixture add two ounces of Murphy's Oil Soap, (soap, not a detergent!) Shake it up and use it. You might note I said nothing about including Hydrogen Peroxide in the mix! Hydrogen Peroxide is an oxygenator that when used as a gun cleaner causes instant oxidation on any part of the un browned barrel it touches, meaning in this case the barrels bore. A test you might try is clean your muzzle loader as clean as you can get it with peroxide in your mixture, I mean so clean that the patch comes out as clean as it went in, no streaks, just plain white. Stand your fresh clean barrel in the corner, then clean the lock and stock. Now run a fresh snow white cleaning patch down the barrel to the breech and with draw it, it will now have gray green streaks instead of clean white, oxidation is the cause. This test is a bit tough to do when using tow due to it's natural color. I personally prefer tow for my cleaning, but again that choice is yours. I have antiqued or patina ed many "Bess" barrels with peroxide, it is much more gentle than Clorox or nitric acid, there fore it's easier to con troll. It is my belief that hydrogen peroxide was not carried in any ones possible sack for gun cleaning purposes. It does not clean a bit better than plain old plentiful and inexpensive tap or stream water. The NMLRA has long preached the sin's of peroxide in muzzle loaders. Since Peroxide was not used for gun cleaning purposes on original firearms, why is it so popular today with some folks? And why do so many sing it's praises? why would a person attempting to recreate what our Grandfathers lived, choose to use it to desolve fouling on our replicas when it is something Grandfather probably never dreamed of and most likely never used? I have never seen "Bridger Approved"on any peroxide bottle. <<<ggg>>> I do sometimes miss the fine print with my failing eye sight. Thank God for contact lenses, without them I I coulden't see through my tri-focals!NAPA Auto Part stores carry or can order Water Soluble Cutting and Grinding Oil. Machine shops use it for cooling parts being milled or shaped on a lathe. The part number is # 765-1525 for a gallon, nearly a lifetimes supply for most folks, sells for around $27.00, and a pint bottle for about $8.00. # 765-1526 For cold weather you might add an ounce of alcohol to the mix, I don't because I never felt the need to. I have no idea or intention that what I have written here should change what anyone is presently doing, I simply would like for you to think about it, possibly try it, if you are totally happy with your present methods fine, shoot center and have fun! Any cleaning method is far better than not cleaning at all. The quality of many of todays replicas will probably allow them to be around and useable long after we'ins has gone under. The water soluble oil is actually very similar to some of the available lubricants used thru the mid 1700's through the 1860's When I bought my last gallon of W.S.O. it contained no petroleum products, but who knows now? Have a good day!!!!!!! Old Coyote CC CO. >OK, I'll bit. What's a purist? Am I one of those purist fellas? >guess I could >figure it out by analyzing my choices and ways of doing things. > >I'm interested in muzzleloaders, black powder and early American >history. I shoot >a muzzle loader and use lead balls and black powder. I don't just >dress and camp >funny, I try to do it the way I believe it was done in the 17th and >18th century. >I clean my muzzle loader with hot water and grease it up afterwards >with the >lard of one critter or another using a tow worm and linen tow. My guns >have shot >well and lasted me some 30 years now. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:58:33 -0400 From: "Mill, Kirk" <millk@aydin.com> Subject: MtMan-List: alum tanning here's a question for you folks. I've got 4 hides that I'm in the process of alum tanning. I dehaired them, soaked them in the tanning solution and now I'm staking and stretching them. The thing that I've noticed is this. When I dehaired them, ashes weren't doing the job very well so I switched to lye. Now I notice that the one hide that I dehaired with ashes alone is staking and stretching much easier than the 3 that had lye added. Any thoughts? Kirk Mill (just a pilgrim from PA) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 15:54:41 -0500 From: "Ken " <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP Cleaner Soak those rusted tins in some "Liquid Wrench" and they will open up. I brown all my tins after I polish them white. Haven't had anymore stick since I started browning them. I wipe the inside edge of the lid with light oil, not much, just what is on an oil rag and that seems to help as well. When I finish making char I let my char tin cool and then blast the sucker with WD-40. That way it don't rust so bad I can't use it again. Thanks for the tip on the mint tins! YMDS, YellowFeather - ---------- > From: NaugaMok@aol.com > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP Cleaner > Date: Tuesday, June 16, 1998 12:32 AM > > In a message dated 98-06-15 11:05:40 EDT, you write: > > << Just a side note:I purchased a real nice small round tin from Panther > Primitives > ($1.25) for my patches as I lube them up like NM. > > You might check the grocery stores in your area & look for Altoids mints. > These are a period candy that sells for under $2/tin -- note "tin". They were > origionaly used for "breath ments" in the mid 1700's -- before the days of > dental hygene. They're a pretty good sharp mint -- & the tin they come in > makes a dandy patch can. I seriously doubt the labeling they use today is > period, so I simply burn off the paint, buff with steel wool & lightly oil. > The lid is hinges like the old Sucrets tins were, so you don't have to worry > 'bout dropping the lid or misplacing it. I used to use old percussion cap > tins for patch cans (again, with labels removed), but since I switched to > flint lock, I don't get many of those any more. There's another candy by > Cavendish & Harvey -- fruit flavored hard candys -- that also come in a tin > can. These cans are realy handy for making char cloth. We seldom buy cans > 'cuz why buy just a can when you can get something in it? Like the Chivas > Regal tin that has a bottle of pretty good Scotch in it around Christmas time. > Unfortunately, that tin has an embossed lid, but there are others that don't. > When you get something that comes in a tin can with a lid, "recycle" it. > > < Just got my gear out to get ready for another > shoot...you guessed it, I forgot to take those remaining patches out of the > tin > and it's rusted shut! > > Hmmm! Never had that happen. I have had cap tins get pin holes in them when > I didn't wring out the patches enough, but it usualy took a few months. Maybe > it's because I usualy oil the cnas right after I burn off the lables -- I > usualy burn several at a time & if I don't oil 'em, they'll rust before I get > to use 'em. > > NM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:04:37 -0500 From: "Ken " <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: elk antler Yep and I just realized yesterday that is even worse than I thought. All my horn, antler, copper penny, shell, bone, and silver buttons were in the same box. You ever seen a 54 year old man cry? Sorry sight! My own stupid fault though. What bothers me most is the horns go to my Sun Dance skull that was used when I did the sun dance in 1975. Next time someone tells me to clean the garage I just might run away from home! YMDS, YellowFeather - ---------- > From: john c funk,jr <j2hearts@juno.com> > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: elk antler > Date: Monday, June 15, 1998 11:07 AM > > I think a lot of us are gonna be sick on that one.....Buffalo horns > too???? > > John Funk > Man is judged not so much by the friends he keeps but by the ones that > will call him friend. > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:13:43 -0500 From: Matt Despain <sdespain@ou.edu> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Milton Sublette's writings Dean Rudy wrote: > At 06:33 AM 6/15/98 -0400, Darla Sublette wrote: > >.. I was wondering if > >anyone has encountered any journals or memoirs by Milton Sublette..... > > I haven't seen or heard of a journal published by Milton - but sure would > be interesed in reading it! One suggestion is that I've heard that the > Missouri Historical Society has a collection of manuscripts called the > "Sublette Collection"; perhaps some of those papers are Milton's. I > haven't had a chance to see these, so I can't say for sure. Anybody know > if this collection is available on microfilm? > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dean Rudy AMM#1530 Email: drudy@xmission.com > Park City, Utah WWW: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/amm.html Dear Dean: I belive the Sublette papers are on microfilm just as the AM. FUR CO. and the Robert Campbell papers are. They are a costly set. The Campbell papers alone are about $3000, I think. If any library has them in Utah it would be Brigham Young University. They have an extensive fur trade collection: some of the W. Ferris stuff, Missouri papers on film, the Campbell collection on film, etc. Give em a call or contact Fred Gownas at the history department there. Matt Despain ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:45:37 -0500 From: "yellow rose/pendleton" <yrrw@cyberramp.net> Subject: MtMan-List: patch lube and cleaner Folks, Now some of you are going to label me a purist, but here's my two cents worth on the cleaning of blackpowder guns. Peroxide is very corrosive ! It is used in some industries to etch metal on purpose. So why in the world would want to put it down the bore of your prize rifle or smoothbore. There are many very effective commercial blackpowder solvents, and I have tried most of them at one time or another. The Murphy's Oil Soap reciepes the 409 stuff the windshield washer fluid I've tried it all. Then it occured to me that our forefathers didn't carry around a bar of lye soap to clean their guns. They used just plain water, and that is all I have used for the last six years with very good results.They washed or wiped their guns out with water dried them well then greased or oiled the bore, and reloaded. The key to any cleaning method is thoroughly drying the bore after cleaing then using a good lube to prevent rust from forming. To backtrack for a moment, stop and think about it would you use peroxide to clean your best castiron skillet ? If you treat your gun bore the same as you would you best skillet you won't go wrong. To the fellow with the Lyman rifle that continued to rust. All gun barrels are not the same. That is to say some metals are more porous than others. That is not a knock on Lyman guns. Lyman makes a fine rifle that is probably one of the best out of the box guns around, but their barrels are a bit more porous than some others and therefore require a little more maintence. The bottom line is you have to learn what works best in your gun. Another tip is two or three days after you have cleaned your gun and put it away run a patch down the bore just to check it to make sure everything is up to snuff.In high humidity areas like ours this is a very good idea. I can't emphasize enough, you have to dry the bore completely ! Now I fully expect to hear from a whole flock of folks who have used their favorite concoction for gun cleaning for years and wouldn't change no matter what, and that is fine I'm not trying to condemn or change anyone's methods. In my experience when we get away from the ways of our forefathers we are usually messing up. That's my two cents worth. Pendleton ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 18:15:38 -0700 From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BP Guns & Getting Kids Started in Buckskinning (not N This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD9952.C37C1960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree Jeff My persona is about the same and sometime I don't take a gun also most of the time I forget it and we are the Party of the Men of the Canot du Nord in the NW ( state of Washington) When I do take a gun it is a Double Barrel 20 Ga. shot gun ( Flintier) I never could get used to those caps and they hadn't been invented in my time frame. I don't even carry a priming horn I just prime out of the big horn works fine for me. After a long day on the river no one wants to shoot anything but the shit. Thats the best thing I shoot and very well I might add. A couple of Hip Hips for David Thompson and the Northwest Company. Later Jon T - ---------- : From: Jeff Powers <kestrel@ticon.net> : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Cc: bishnows@swbell.net : Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BP Guns & Getting Kids Started in Buckskinning (not N : Date: Tuesday, June 16, 1998 1:46 AM : : : I don't shoot anymore and "HERESY" don't even personally agree with the : requirement to shoot! Being interested in the NORTHWEST COMPANY around : 1790-1810 most of the canoe men from Quebec didn't even have a gun! : I'm sure my GGG-Grandfather didn't have one,That illiterate frenchie was : nothing more than a canoepaddeling mule! : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : On 1998-06-15 hist_text@lists.xmission.com said to kestrel@ticon.net : >X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-SBXA (Win95; I) : >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit : >Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com : >Precedence: bulk : >Status: : >JSeminerio@aol.com wrote: : >> Dear Angela : >> As always a great post. : >> But Why Oh Why, did you get me started ? ? ? : >> I agree with your post. I do think you have slightly missed a : >>very important point. The point is HOW WILL WE GET AND KEEP : >>PEOPLE AND THEIR FAMILIES INTERESTED IN BUCKSKINNING. : >> Because if Momma ain't happy, ain't no one happy : >> For the last ten years I have been bugging booshways and clubs to : >>make the extra-shooting aspect of events more important. ( I : >>don't want to say non- shooting aspects, because I belive they : >are vitally importatnt) > : >> If you've been going to Rendezvous in the last 15 years you know : >>they are not anywhere near as hellfire as they used to be. The : >>gray beards have gotten older and the tenderfeet are tending to : >their families. > : >> People (young Families) are desperate for activites that they can : >>do together that are wholesome, and not expensive (I know that is : >>a totally different can of worms) and family oriented. Ithink we : >>have to realize that , respond to it or realize that we will lose : >>children and grandchildren to the teaching of strangers (the TV) , : >>to the Mickey Mouse, pre packaged, sanitized, cartoonized, : >>sterilized versions of their place in history and their place in : >this country. > : >> Your posts are always insightful and well thought out, and well : >>researched. What part of the country are you from I would like to : >>meet you and offer you a glass of grog at the fireside (no I'm : >not getting fresh) > : >> Thank you very much : >> Watch your topknot : >> JSemninerio : >Well I have to say it. I have been watching this disscussion : >for a while now. I have been goin to doins for 12 or 14 years or so. : >I've only shot at RDV once or twice. I'm not into that. I work hard : >6 or 7 days a week, when I get a day off I like to sit by the fire : >and visit. There is so much history to cuss and discuss. I'll shoot : >my guns when I go hunting, I visit with friends every chance I get. : >Snakeshot : : Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive : - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD9952.C37C1960 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">I agree Jeff My persona is about the = same and sometime I don't take a gun also most of the time I forget it = and we are the Party of the Men of the Canot du Nord in the NW ( state = of Washington) When I do take a gun it is a Double Barrel 20 Ga. shot = gun ( Flintier) I never could get used to those caps and they hadn't = been invented in my time frame. I don't even carry a priming horn = I just prime out of the big horn works fine for me. After a long = day on the river no one wants to shoot anything but the shit. = Thats the best thing I shoot and very well I might add. A = couple of Hip Hips for David Thompson and the Northwest Company. = Later Jon T ---------- : From: Jeff = Powers <kestrel@ticon.net> : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Cc: bishnows@swbell.net : Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BP Guns & Getting = Kids Started in Buckskinning (not N : Date: Tuesday, June 16, = 1998 1:46 AM : : : I don't shoot anymore and = "HERESY" don't even personally agree with the : requirement = to shoot! Being interested in the NORTHWEST COMPANY around : = 1790-1810 most of the canoe men from Quebec didn't even have a gun! : = I'm sure my GGG-Grandfather didn't have one,That illiterate = frenchie was : nothing more than a canoepaddeling mule! : : = : : : : : : : : : : : : = : : : On 1998-06-15 hist_text@lists.xmission.com said to kestrel@ticon.net : = >X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-SBXA (Win95; I) : = >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit : = >Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com : >Precedence: bulk : = >Status: : >JSeminerio@aol.com = wrote: : >> Dear Angela : = >> As always a great post. : = >> But Why Oh Why, did you get me started = ? ? ? : >> I agree with your post. I do = think you have slightly missed a : >>very = important point. The point is HOW WILL WE GET AND KEEP : = >>PEOPLE AND THEIR FAMILIES INTERESTED IN = BUCKSKINNING. : >> Because if Momma ain't = happy, ain't no one happy : >> For the last = ten years I have been bugging booshways and clubs to : = >>make the extra-shooting aspect of = events more important. ( I : = >>don't want to say non- shooting aspects, = because I belive they : >are vitally importatnt) = > : >> If you've been going to Rendezvous = in the last 15 years you know : >>they are = not anywhere near as hellfire as they used to be. The : = >>gray beards have gotten older and the = tenderfeet are tending to : >their families. = > : >> People (young Families) are = desperate for activites that they can : >>do = together that are wholesome, and not expensive (I know that = is : >>a totally different can of = worms) and family oriented. Ithink we : = >>have to realize that , respond to it or = realize that we will lose : >>children and = grandchildren to the teaching of strangers (the TV) , : = >>to the Mickey Mouse, pre packaged, sanitized, = cartoonized, : >>sterilized versions of = their place in history and their place in : = >this country. > : >> = Your posts are always insightful and well thought out, and well : = >>researched. What part of the country are = you from I would like to : >>meet you and = offer you a glass of grog at the fireside (no I'm : = >not getting fresh) > : = >> Thank you very much : = >> Watch your topknot : = >> JSemninerio : >Well I = have to say it. I have been watching this disscussion : = >for a while now. I have been goin to doins for 12 = or 14 years or so. : >I've only shot at RDV once = or twice. I'm not into that. I work hard : >6 or = 7 days a week, when I get a day off I like to sit by the fire : = >and visit. There is so much history to cuss and = discuss. I'll shoot : >my guns when I go = hunting, I visit with friends every chance I get. : = >Snakeshot : : Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test = Drive : </f= ont></body></html> - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD9952.C37C1960-- ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #87 ****************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.