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hist_text-digest         Monday, June 15 1998         Volume 01 : Number 086




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 20:12:43 -0500
From: [e-mail] (michael pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP Cleaner

get some non phosphated green soap and some hydrogen peroxide and some
rubbing alcohol and mix equal parts and add 1/4 water --- good cleaner
and  and target shooting solvent to use on patces---

Hawk
michael pierce
e-mail [e-mail]

On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:54:54 EDT <[e-mail]> writes:
>someone on the list mentioned the use of MACS13, and i recall them
>saying its
>also at NAPA stores. i have located a product at a NAPA store (called
>NAPA
>Number 13, stock number 1300), and wanted to verify that it is
>actually a
>radiator flush / rust inhibitor product.  its darn cheap ($1.60 for 8
>ounces)
>so i'm hoping this is the stuff...... please let me know.    thanks.
>PJ
>
>

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 13:05:25 -0700
From: Frank <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP Cleaner

[e-mail] wrote:

> When it comes time
> to shoot, put what you need in your patch box/can or whatever you carry your
> patches in in your bag 'cuz the ziplock bag odviously ain't a period
> container.

> NM

Just a side note:I purchased a real nice small round tin from Panther Primitives
($1.25) for my patches as I lube them up like NM.  Put them in the tin and carried
them to a shoot and they worked great.  Came home from the shoot, cleaned up all
my gear and put it away.  Just got my gear out to get ready for another
shoot...you guessed it, I forgot to take those remaining patches out of the tin
and it's rusted shut!  So feel free to learn from my mistake and save yourself a
little grief!  I just hope some dern feller don't start callin' me rusted tin!

Medicine Bear

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 15:36:18 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BP Guns & Getting Kids Started in Buckskinning (not re: NMLRA)

Dear Angela

As always a great post.
But Why Oh Why,  did you get me started ? ? ?

I agree with your post.  I do think you have slightly missed a very important
point.  The point is HOW WILL WE GET AND KEEP PEOPLE AND THEIR FAMILIES
INTERESTED IN BUCKSKINNING.

Because if Momma ain't happy, ain't no one happy

For the last ten years I have been bugging booshways and clubs to make the
extra-shooting aspect of  events more important.  ( I don't want to say non-
shooting aspects, because I belive they are vitally importatnt)

If you've been going to Rendezvous in the last 15 years you know they are not
anywhere near as hellfire as they used to be.  The gray beards have gotten
older and the tenderfeet are tending to their families.

People (young Families) are desperate for activites that they can do together
that are wholesome, and not expensive (I know that is a totally different can
of worms) and family oriented.  Ithink we have to realize that , respond to it
or realize that we will lose children and grandchildren to the teaching of
strangers (the TV) , to the Mickey Mouse, pre packaged, sanitized,
cartoonized, sterilized versions of their place in history and their place in
this country.

Your posts are always insightful and well thought out, and well researched.
What part of the country are you from I would like to meet you and offer you a
glass of grog at the fireside (no I'm not getting fresh)

Thank you very much
Watch your topknot
JSemninerio

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 20:08:27 -0500
From: [e-mail] (michael pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: New $1 coin

please contact me offline in reference to this subject matter I  thought
the design was down to two specific design of which i have copieds of the
concept coins.  when was the decision made to use sacagjawea----thats a
new one on me.
       =+=
       hawk
michael pierce
e-mail:hawknest4@ juno.com

On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 11:32:09 -0600 (CST) [e-mail] (Henry B.
Crawford) writes:
>The US Treasury Dept. just announced that a new gold-colored dollar
>coin
>will be minted for circulation beginning in 2000.  The image of
>Sacagjawea
>will adorn the face of the coin.
>
>Sounds like good news to me.
>
>HBC
>
>*****************************************
>Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
>[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
>806/742-2442           Box 43191
>FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
>               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
>******  Living History . . . Because it's there!  *******
>
>

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 20:20:34 -0500
From: [e-mail] (michael pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Priming Horns

matt--- please contact me offline or give me a call and I think I can
help you out with your primer problem--- just finish up a cased flinter
and have a primer nozzle left over and can chat a bit about it---it
measures out the right amount each time it is pressed in the pan---works
good--- I made two it is similar to the tresco nozzle but can be
installed in a horn or in a wooden body--- I will be back from holidays
around the 22 of june so contact me then

hawk
michael pierce
1-813-771-1813
e-mail:[e-mail]

On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 10:35:57 -0400 Matt Despain <[e-mail]> writes:
>Just bought my first flinter and been looking for a priming horn. But
>I
>can't find anyone in my region (Oklahoma) who deals in any kind of
>buckskinning matter.  So I thought I'd put out a message here and see
>if
>anyone had a priming horn that was just collecting dust and would like
>to give it a new home (for a reasonable price that is). Anyone
>interested drop me a note here or at my own e-mail.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Matt Despain
>[e-mail]
>
>

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 20:33:45 -0500
From: [e-mail] (michael pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP Cleaner

I wouldnt put that crap in my gun but who am i to say what to use I guess
i've tried about everything that you can use to clean and shoot with and
good green non phosphated soap will clean as well as anything--- if i was
going to use this modern stuff i might as well use the teflon sprayed
ticking that is made by web terry as that stuff-- and i dont even
recomend that.  but who am i to knock or say what you put in the barrel
of your gun---my "OLD GRIZZ"    (Not hawkins shop crap either the real
stuff) has worked for me for over 20 years and havent found anything
better for target shooting---

contact me off line and I will give you several good lub and cleaning
recipies---

hawk
michael pierce
1-813-771-1813
e-mail [e-mail]

On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 23:15:21 EDT <[e-mail]> writes:
>In a message dated 98-06-12 15:28:17 EDT, you write:
>
><< someone on the list mentioned the use of MACS13, and i recall them
>saying
>its
> also at NAPA stores. i have located a product at a NAPA store (called
>NAPA
> Number 13, stock number 1300), and wanted to verify that it is
>actually a
> radiator flush / rust inhibitor product.
>
>That's the stuff.  Actualy, it isn't a "flush", but water pump lube.
>Basic
>ingredient is water soluable oil with some rust inhibitors added.  If
>you look
>at the back label, you'll see  in the lower left corner the familiar
>"Mac's"
>logo.
>
><  its darn cheap ($1.60 for 8 ounces)
> so i'm hoping this is the stuff...... please let me know.    thanks.
>PJ
>  >>
>
>Hmmm -- think I've been paying $1.89 for the 12 oz bottle -- still
>inexpensive
>& it works well.  You'll have to play with it a little to see how
>"dry" to
>wring out your patches as with all water based lubes.  I usualy lube
>up the
>patches 3 - 400 at a time & leave 'em in a ziplock bag with enough
>Mac's on em
>I get liquid when I squeeze the bag. Leave the ziplock open just a
>little bit
>so the excess will evaporate off.  If they get too dry, either add
>more Mac's
>or a bit of water.  As cheap as it is, I add more Mac's.  When it
>comes time
>to shoot, put what you need in your patch box/can or whatever you
>carry your
>patches in in your bag 'cuz the ziplock bag odviously ain't a period
>container.  Even out here in the desert, the patches will stay damp
>enough all
>day in a Altoid's candy tin.  Nice thing about Mac's -- say you've
>shot 20
>rounds in the morning & your bore is a bit dirty & you want to shoot a
>few
>more rounds in the afternoon.  The first round will load a bit sticky,
>but the
>following rounds will load like in a clean bore.  If you keep
>shooting, you
>shouldn't have to swab the bore between shots at all -- I've shot up
>to 75
>rounds in a day without swabing.  The only problem I had was the
>fouling build
>up back in the breech trying to block off the touch hole.  I'm not
>advocating
>shooting that much without a good cleaning or 2 in the middle of the
>day, but
>I have done it sucessfuly.  If you're shooting in rapid succession or
>it's a
>hot dry day like we get here in the desert (115 degrees & 15%
>humidity), you
>may want to run the patches a bit damper, but my rifles seem to prefer
>the
>patch fairly "dry" or well wrung out for normal shooting.  Have also
>had good
>luck with it in my trade gun.  Have fun!
>
>NM
>
>

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 19:32:48 -0700
From: "JON P TOWNS" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Purest

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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As a purest my philosophy is don't shoot the dam thing.  It just gets dirty
and I don't need much practice I use about 1-60 cal round ball and 10 22
cal balls on top and with two barrels and two good sharp flints, carrying
a load like that you don't need much practice.   Later Jon T

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<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">As a purest my philosophy is don't =
shoot the dam thing.  It just gets dirty and I don't need much =
practice I use about 1-60 cal round ball and 10 22 cal balls on top and =
with two barrels and two good sharp flints, carrying  a load like =
that you don't need much practice.   Later Jon T</p>
</font></body></html>
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BD97CB.365A8860--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 04:10:32 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BP Guns & Getting Kids Started in Buckskinning (not re: NMLRA)

In a message dated 98-06-11 18:48:19 EDT, you write:

<< I haven't been following this thread really closely, so excuse me if I'm
 wrong, but it seems that the responses have been focussed on getting the
 right gun, & starting the kids shooting.

The thread origionaly concerned a particular youngster who wanted to shoot.
You're quite right about not everyone WANTS to shoot.  My wife, eventhough she
has a perfectly good rifle, pistol, knife, tomahawk, & lance rarely competes
any more.  She realy enjoys camping, period needle work, persona research, &
other aspects of our hobby more than she does actual competition.  She realy
enjoys score keeping & heckling the shooters, but then too she's just living
up to her name of "Lil' Pest".  Our daughter only shot the required 1 time
through a rifle course to qualify for membership.  Our 2 older grandaughters
(8 & 11), on the other hand, can't wait to learn to shoot though once they've
accomplished that feat, I think the older of the 2 will become a non-shooter.
Our 2 younger grandkids (1 1/2 & 3) don't know what they want to do -- yet.

< Teach them historic games, like checkers, dominoes, & the 'stick game'.

& for the older kids, chess, backgammon, & cribage.

<There's so much more to this than shooting! Shooting's fun too, of course,
but it's not everyone's cup of  tea-- it's a pity that so many non-shooters
feel excluded when there's no
 need for them to be.

Couldn't agree more.  For me, this hobby has become much more enjoyable since
the whole family has joined me "on the mountain", even though they're not all
shooters.

 NM

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 21:47:57 -0700
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP Cleaner

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Brother Wheeler'
OK, I'll bit. What's a purist? Am I one of those purist fellas? I guess I could
figure it out by analyzing my choices and ways of doing things.

I'm interested in muzzleloaders, black powder and early American history. I shoot
a muzzle loader and use lead balls and black powder. I don't just dress and camp
funny, I try to do it the way I believe it was done in the 17th and 18th century.
I clean my muzzle loader with hot water and grease it up afterwards with the
lard of one critter or another using a tow worm and linen tow. My guns have shot
well and lasted me some 30 years now.

If I shot an 'inline' using pyrodex, shotgun primers and sabots, cleaned my gun
with water pump flush or lube and dressed in chrome tan golden buckskins and had
enough reservation bead work hanging off me to drown a small pack mule would I be
a buckskinn'in, muzzle loading, mountain man of old? Maybe, Maybe not. The
question  might better be, why bother.  After all that, it would be a lot simpler
to get me a modern gun even a late 19th century cartridge rifle and pistol and be
done with it.

If you (this is a rhetorical question) are interested in muzzleloaders and the
mountain man era or long hunter era and have gone to the trouble of doing your
shooting with muzzleloaders then why do you want to try to make the sport as much
like modern shooting as possible. Why try to reinvent the way things were done in
those olden days that we revere and cherish so highly. Why not just concentrate
on rediscovering the old ways and relearn how the old-timers (of a previous
century) did things and got along quit well without the local NAPA store. And
most of all, if you (rhetorical again) have cause to influence someone just
getting started in this game, why not steer them towards the old ways right from
the start. Help them get a leg up on this game so they don't have to unlearn bad
habits or information and don't have a bunch of gear they wish they could get rid
of but can't afford to let go for nothing.

Some would say that I don't accept those that don't have a 'Chambers' rifle and
dress in brain tan from head to toe. Your not listening! Not everyone that came
to the mountains had a gun much less a truly fine gun. and most did not come
dressed in leather. Most wore home spun and carried an old musket  or were issued
one by their sponsor if they merited one. What is being suggested is that if it
is worth doing, then it really is worth doing right. And we should be encouraging
newcomers to do it right (authentic) or we are not doing our part to preserve the
sport of Buckskinnig/Muzzle Loading. Go the convenient easy path and some day it
will not be muzzle loading any more, it will be just a funny way to shoot
invented in the mid to late 20th century by a bunch of strange people dressed in
funny nondescript clothing.

I hope this does not offend anyone but rather causes some hard thinking on what
we are all about. This is supposed to be a history list/discussion and when I
contribute in the vein of making do, like my suggestion recently to put some
brass grommets in a tarp and treat it with a commercial waterproofing, I am not
doing right by those who tune in to learn the way it was done in the old days am
I. What are you all doing to further our understanding of the ways of our
forefathers?

I remain Your Most Obedient Servant (Humble too)
Capt. Roger Lahti (ret)



[e-mail] wrote:

> In a message dated 98-06-12 15:28:27 EDT, you write:
>
> << MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP Cleaner >>
> with all this fuss about period stuff i wounder if this is the right thing to
> use being there are so many purists among us maby urin is better it was easly
> transported an was period corect. they used back then as an anti  foweling
> cleaning agent.
> purests out there.     got any great comments and words of wisdom????????



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<HTML>
Brother Wheeler'
<BR>OK, I'll bit. What's a purist? Am I one of those purist fellas? I guess
I could figure it out by analyzing my choices and ways of doing things.

<P>I'm interested in muzzleloaders, black powder and early American history.
I shoot a muzzle loader and use lead balls and black powder. I don't just
dress and camp funny, I try to do it the way I believe it was done in the
17th and 18th century. I clean my muzzle loader with hot water and grease
it up afterwards with the  lard of one critter or another using a
tow worm and linen tow. My guns have shot well and lasted me some 30 years
now.

<P>If I shot an 'inline' using pyrodex, shotgun primers and sabots, cleaned
my gun with water pump flush or lube and dressed in chrome tan golden buckskins
and had enough reservation bead work hanging off me to drown a small pack
mule would I be a buckskinn'in, muzzle loading, mountain man of old? Maybe,
Maybe not. The question  might better be, <U>why bother.</U>
After all that, it would be a lot simpler to get me a modern gun even a
late 19th century cartridge rifle and pistol and be done with it.

<P>If you (this is a rhetorical question) are interested in muzzleloaders
and the mountain man era or long hunter era and have gone to the trouble
of doing your shooting with muzzleloaders then why do you want to try to
make the sport as much like modern shooting as possible. Why try to reinvent
the way things were done in those olden days that we revere and cherish
so highly. Why not just concentrate on rediscovering the old ways and relearn
how the old-timers (of a previous century) did things and got along quit
well without the local NAPA store. And most of all, if you (rhetorical
again) have cause to influence someone just getting started in this game,
why not steer them towards the old ways right from the start. Help them
get a leg up on this game so they don't have to unlearn bad habits or information
and don't have a bunch of gear they wish they could get rid of but can't
afford to let go for nothing.

<P>Some would say that I don't accept those that don't have a 'Chambers'
rifle and dress in brain tan from head to toe. Your not listening! Not
everyone that came to the mountains had a gun much less a truly fine gun.
and most did not come dressed in leather. Most wore home spun and carried
an old musket  or were issued one by their sponsor if they merited
one. What is being suggested is that if it is worth doing, then it really
is worth doing right. And we should be encouraging newcomers to do it right
(authentic) or we are not doing our part to preserve the sport of Buckskinnig/Muzzle
Loading. Go the convenient easy path and some day it will not be muzzle
loading any more, it will be just a funny way to shoot invented in the
mid to late 20th century by a bunch of strange people dressed in funny
nondescript clothing.

<P>I hope this does not offend anyone but rather causes some hard thinking
on what we are all about. This is supposed to be a history list/discussion
and when I contribute in the vein of making do, like my suggestion recently
to put some brass grommets in a tarp and treat it with a commercial waterproofing,
I am not doing right by those who tune in to learn the way it was done
in the old days am I. What are <U>you all</U> doing to further our understanding
of the ways of our forefathers?

<P>I remain Your Most Obedient Servant (Humble too)
<BR>Capt. Roger Lahti (ret)
<BR>
<BR>

<P>[e-mail] wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>In a message dated 98-06-12 15:28:27 EDT, you write:

<P><< MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP Cleaner >>
<BR>with all this fuss about period stuff i wounder if this is the right
thing to
<BR>use being there are so many purists among us maby urin is better it
was easly
<BR>transported an was period corect. they used back then as an anti
foweling
<BR>cleaning agent.
<BR>purests out there.     got any great comments and
words of wisdom????????</BLOCKQUOTE>
 </HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 01:58:44 -0500
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Purist

At 07:32 PM 6/14/98 -0700, you wrote:=20

>
> As a purest my philosophy is don't shoot the dam thing. =A0It just gets=
 dirty
> and I don't need much practice I use about 1-60 cal round ball and 10 22=
 cal
> balls on top and with two barrels and two good sharp flints, carrying =A0a
load
> like that you don't need much practice. =A0=A0Later Jon T


Jon,

Best belly laugh in weeks, thanks.

I couldn't agree more.  Why waste galena and powder, at mountain prices,=
 if'n
it don't keep hair on your head or meat in your belly.

In silver tip country I load 105 gr. FF under 14 - 00 buck size swan shot
under
a (bear/sperm oiled) patched .69 round ball for wading.  Ain't that much
fun to
shoot, up close it never misses.

Need more of your attitude too much Unrepentant Royalist and Tory=
 sympathizer
modernist philosophy running amok lately.  Radiator flocum?  Heresy! =20
Mysterious chemical potions from the horseless carriage stithy supply?=20
WitchCraft I say!  Burn'em at the stake!

John...

Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 02:56:38 -0500
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BP Guns & Getting Kids Started in Buckskinning (not re: NMLRA)

At 03:36 PM 6/14/98 -0400, JSemninerio wrote:
>Dear Angela=20
>
>As always a great post.=20
>But Why Oh Why,=A0 did you get me started ? ? ?=20
>
>I agree with your post.=A0 I do think you have slightly missed a very=
 important
>point.=A0 The point is HOW WILL WE GET AND KEEP PEOPLE AND THEIR FAMILIES
>INTERESTED IN BUCKSKINNING.
>


Interesting topic.

I am proud to say I've never fired a shot at a "public" rendezvous.  I have
touched off a few rounds hooraying a town or robbing the stage coach up in
Davey Jackson's hole.  I was a better shot years ago when my eyes didn't=
 fuzz
so much.  Snuffing candles, and splitting cards is for the eagle eyed young
who's ears don't ring all the time, yet.

What makes a rendezvous is the exchange of learning.  That comes in many and
diverse forms.

The storytellers, the scholars, those that lead children in old games. =
 Those
that teach by showing their fine work demonstrating or speaking of the=
 skills
they've learned add to everyone's experience.  Shooting is only one skill.

Learning to build a fire -- no matter what you don't have.  Learning to cook
with minimal equipage.  Learning how to really sharpen and use knives and
axes.  Learning to stay comfortable in any weather with a few simple
possessions.  Learning to make much of what we need.  Learning enough to=
 know;
that no matter what circumstance dictates; we have the skills to survive
without: which builds confidence in every other aspect of life.

Traders contribute greatly when they know their goods and speak to the
history,
acquisition and manufacture in correct terms of the period.  Those who make
what they sell or only deal in old, authentic and that which is exactly=
 right
to the period, teach.  The K-Mart type traders add nothing to rendezvous.=20
Look-a-like trash, almost sort of right, teaches nothing but more about=
 caveat
emptor.  Someone only interested in collecting the modern coin answering few
questions not related to price do not help.  Those who trade prime plunder=
 for
prime goods, teach.

The period foods, cloth and goods are tools from whence we learn the use.=20
Those that teach of the skills and crafts to use and manufacture those goods
from before mechanization enrich everyones experience.  Blacksmiths,=
 weavers,
cordwainers, woodwrights, tanners, spinners, coopers, all and much, much=
 more
are the learning experiences on which we thrive.  Those who teach of wild
foods, or the stars in the sky may spark a young interest to learn much=
 more.

There is much to learn from books and scholars there is much more to learn
getting out on the ground and finding out how things were really done, by
doing
them that way.

Joy is found in learning.  Learning can be a great deal of fun.  If we=
 aren't
learning we wither.

To me, though important, the shooting aspects are of no greater value than=
 any
other aspect of whatever we choose to call: buckskinning, rendezvous, living
history, working history, experimental history, reenacting, mountainmaning=
 or
whatever.

The musician who tells of the history of the tunes they play, teaches us. =
 The
storyteller who recounts ancient legend stimulates the mind around the late
nite fire.  This is the stuff that I always thought made the experience
worthwhile for the whole family.  Learning to knap from a master or still
another of the many small secrets of fire; each is of equal importance to
shooting.

That and the spirit of camaraderie and community, of honor and integrity, of
common trust.  If we foster these things it will not be hard to keep the=
 kids
interest.

John...
John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0
=20
Kramer's Best Antique Improver
>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<<

<<http://www.kramerize.com/>http://www.kramerize.com/>

mail to: <[e-mail]>=20

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 04:13:29 -0500
From: Bishnow <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BP Guns & Getting Kids Started in Buckskinning (not re: NMLRA)

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> Dear Angela
>
> As always a great post.
> But Why Oh Why,  did you get me started ? ? ?
>
> I agree with your post.  I do think you have slightly missed a very important
> point.  The point is HOW WILL WE GET AND KEEP PEOPLE AND THEIR FAMILIES
> INTERESTED IN BUCKSKINNING.
>
> Because if Momma ain't happy, ain't no one happy
>
> For the last ten years I have been bugging booshways and clubs to make the
> extra-shooting aspect of  events more important.  ( I don't want to say non-
> shooting aspects, because I belive they are vitally importatnt)
>
> If you've been going to Rendezvous in the last 15 years you know they are not
> anywhere near as hellfire as they used to be.  The gray beards have gotten
> older and the tenderfeet are tending to their families.
>
> People (young Families) are desperate for activites that they can do together
> that are wholesome, and not expensive (I know that is a totally different can
> of worms) and family oriented.  Ithink we have to realize that , respond to it
> or realize that we will lose children and grandchildren to the teaching of
> strangers (the TV) , to the Mickey Mouse, pre packaged, sanitized,
> cartoonized, sterilized versions of their place in history and their place in
> this country.
>
> Your posts are always insightful and well thought out, and well researched.
> What part of the country are you from I would like to meet you and offer you a
> glass of grog at the fireside (no I'm not getting fresh)
>
> Thank you very much
> Watch your topknot
> JSemninerio
Well I have to say it. I have been watching this disscussion
for a while now. I have been goin to doins for 12 or 14 years or so.
I've only shot at RDV once or twice. I'm not into that. I work hard
6 or 7 days a week, when I get a day off I like to sit by the fire and
visit. There is so much history to cuss and discuss. I'll shoot my
guns when I go hunting, I visit with friends every chance I get.

Snakeshot

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 06:33:14 -0400
From: Darla <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Milton Sublette's writings

Gentlemen:

I won't intrude upon your fraternity for long, but I was wondering if
anyone has encountered any journals or memoirs by Milton Sublette.  In
Annie Dillard's early-1970's book Pilgrim at Tinker's Creek she mentions
his writings briefly, but that's the only reference I've found anywhere.  I
have written to Ms. Dillard through her publisher but don't know when or if
to expect a reply.

Milton was a distant cousin of mine -- we came down different branches of
the same family tree.  My father has always been fascinated with William
and Milton.  Thanks to your web site I've been able to provide him with
some interesting reading material this year;  but Milton's journals would
be the ultimate!  And, I confess, I'd be pretty interested to read them,
too.

Thanks much --
Darla Sublette

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:54:07 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: cleaning canvas

This may be off topic but hope someone will contact me off line.  I have a
pyriamid tent that got wet in the basement from a leaky pipe and now has black
spots in it (Mildew?)  I don't mind the discoloration but am afraid that the
canvas may rot.  I've cleaned it with soap and bleach.  Does anyone  have
another solution.

Contact me opff line at [e-mail]

Thanks.

Red Hawk

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:04:33 -0700
From: Gary Bell <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP Cleaner

Washtahey Hawk,

I respectfully disagree about your recipe, I feel peroxide is far too
corrosive.  I am getting a feeling of deja vu all over again with this
line of discussion, I guess being old allows me to sorta ignore
discussions held more than a few weeks ago.  Here goes anyway.

Number One Son took my Lyman GP to Boy Scout summer camp when he staffed
in their blackpowder program, and their moose milk was equal thirds of
peroxide, Murphy's Oil soap and rubbing alcohol, used for patch, swab and
overall cleaning.  He fought terrible rust all season and I am shopping
for a replacement barrel.

The way I figure, the soap and alcohol break down and suspend/dissolve the
oily stuff, while the peroxide attacks the metals and the organics, and
the water carries it all away.  Fine so far, but unless the peroxide is
either neutralized or very effectively flushed out it will soak into
cracks/crevices, like the "pores" in the steel (actually tiny cracks
between grains or crystals of metal), and the threads in the breechplug
etc. continuing to etch the steel until it is consumed in the corrosion
process.  Steel should be protected by something like an oil layer after
it is cleaned and flushed/neutralized.

Do you get the surface rust these recipes gave me?  Do you apply any oil
afterward?  Is your bore already protected by a carbon layer (conditioned,
like an iron pot), an iron oxide layer (like a browned barrel) or bright
and shiny?

Several of the old timers that helped me learn the ropes swear by the
household detergent "409" as the patch and cleaner, and they claim to not
oil or anything else afterward.  I still use the stuff for clean out, but
I learned to use a good hot water flush afterward, followed by a nice thin
coat of Rigg anti-rust grease, and am pleased with the results.

I guess in addition to the blackpowder vs. Pyrodex tests I was planning I
should look into some of the wide range of cleaners.

michael pierce wrote:

> get some non phosphated green soap and some hydrogen peroxide and some
> rubbing alcohol and mix equal parts and add 1/4 water --- good cleaner
> and  and target shooting solvent to use on patces---
>
> Hawk
> michael pierce
> e-mail [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:32:00 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sons of a Trackless Forest

A friend recently spoke with Mark Baker at Manskers Station  and inquired
about his book. Apparently there were some problems with the quality of the
maps when it came from the printer, so it was sent back for work causing a
delay in shipping. So we continue to wait.

Todd Glover

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:29:51 -0500
From: "Scott Allen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BP Guns & Getting Kids Started in Buckskinning (

Well said John, well said.

Your most humble servant,
Scott Allen
http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:21:00 -0700
From: "baird.rick" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: elk antler

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
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Anyone know of any sources for elk antler burrs? Cheaper is what I had in
mind.
Thanks in advance.

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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Anyone know of any sources for elk antler burrs? Cheaper is what I had in mind.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Thanks in advance.</FONT>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:47:10
From: Carlson Wagonlit Travel <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: elk antler

At 12:21 PM 6/15/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Anyone know of any sources for elk antler burrs? Cheaper is what I had in
>mind.
>Thanks in advance.

Moscow Hide and Fur
http://hideandfur.com

Or if you want I can go hand pick something out for you.
Let me know.


Matt Mitchell
Palouse Hills Muzzleloaders
Moscow, Idaho
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 14:26:01 -0500
From: "Ken " <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: elk antler

Rick I think I am going to be ill! I threw away a box of that stuff about a
month ago. I was cleaning the garage and set the box of antler parts to one
side, and some how either me or my son who was helping threw it out! Lost
my buffalo horns too!
Ken

- ----------
> From: baird.rick <[e-mail]>
> To: mtnmen <[e-mail]>
> Subject: MtMan-List: elk antler
> Date: Monday, June 15, 1998 2:21 PM
>
Anyone know of any sources for elk antler burrs? Cheaper is what I had in
mind.
Thanks in advance.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 23:37:45 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: cleaning canvas

Al Levin of Spring Valley Lodges (had mine over 14 years) told me that if I
had mildew, (turned out it was just dirt), that white vinegar would be a good
way to kill the mildew, just wash it off and dry the tent in th esun, hope
that helps

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #86
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