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hist_text-digest         Sunday, June 14 1998         Volume 01 : Number 085




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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:54:54 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP Cleaner

someone on the list mentioned the use of MACS13, and i recall them saying its
also at NAPA stores. i have located a product at a NAPA store (called NAPA
Number 13, stock number 1300), and wanted to verify that it is actually a
radiator flush / rust inhibitor product.  its darn cheap ($1.60 for 8 ounces)
so i'm hoping this is the stuff...... please let me know.    thanks.  PJ

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Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 08:02:50 -0400
From: kat <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Tanning

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I've helped my brother with brain tanning. There isn't really a mess =
from the brains -- they are liquified, and mixed with water. Once he has =
soaked a hide and worked it dry so it suits him, he pours the brains =
into the flower garden. Lots of beautiful plants this year!

Kat Hargus


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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 23:15:21 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP Cleaner

In a message dated 98-06-12 15:28:17 EDT, you write:

<< someone on the list mentioned the use of MACS13, and i recall them saying
its
 also at NAPA stores. i have located a product at a NAPA store (called NAPA
 Number 13, stock number 1300), and wanted to verify that it is actually a
 radiator flush / rust inhibitor product.

That's the stuff.  Actualy, it isn't a "flush", but water pump lube.  Basic
ingredient is water soluable oil with some rust inhibitors added.  If you look
at the back label, you'll see  in the lower left corner the familiar "Mac's"
logo.

<  its darn cheap ($1.60 for 8 ounces)
 so i'm hoping this is the stuff...... please let me know.    thanks.  PJ
  >>

Hmmm -- think I've been paying $1.89 for the 12 oz bottle -- still inexpensive
& it works well.  You'll have to play with it a little to see how "dry" to
wring out your patches as with all water based lubes.  I usualy lube up the
patches 3 - 400 at a time & leave 'em in a ziplock bag with enough Mac's on em
I get liquid when I squeeze the bag. Leave the ziplock open just a little bit
so the excess will evaporate off.  If they get too dry, either add more Mac's
or a bit of water.  As cheap as it is, I add more Mac's.  When it comes time
to shoot, put what you need in your patch box/can or whatever you carry your
patches in in your bag 'cuz the ziplock bag odviously ain't a period
container.  Even out here in the desert, the patches will stay damp enough all
day in a Altoid's candy tin.  Nice thing about Mac's -- say you've shot 20
rounds in the morning & your bore is a bit dirty & you want to shoot a few
more rounds in the afternoon.  The first round will load a bit sticky, but the
following rounds will load like in a clean bore.  If you keep shooting, you
shouldn't have to swab the bore between shots at all -- I've shot up to 75
rounds in a day without swabing.  The only problem I had was the fouling build
up back in the breech trying to block off the touch hole.  I'm not advocating
shooting that much without a good cleaning or 2 in the middle of the day, but
I have done it sucessfuly.  If you're shooting in rapid succession or it's a
hot dry day like we get here in the desert (115 degrees & 15% humidity), you
may want to run the patches a bit damper, but my rifles seem to prefer the
patch fairly "dry" or well wrung out for normal shooting.  Have also had good
luck with it in my trade gun.  Have fun!

NM

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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 16:07:06 -0500
From: Terry Venden <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Sons of a Trackless Forest

Help,
Sending out a feeler to find out if anyone has ordered and received
their copy of Mark Baker's new book.  I ordered one in Dec., sent my
money in and still haven't received the book..  They were having some
trouble with the printing but I would hope that they have that taken
care of.  Tried to call his publishers company in TN but no number is
listed.  Thought I'd ask before writing and if no one has received
theirs then I'll be a little more patience.
Really enjoy reading all the different treads that you all generate.
Thanks for the help.
Terry (Medicine Bear),  Pineywoods Buckskinners, Texas

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Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 02:40:53 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP Cleaner

In a message dated 98-06-12 15:28:27 EDT, you write:

<< MtMan-List: Patch Lube / BP Cleaner >>
with all this fuss about period stuff i wounder if this is the right thing to
use being there are so many purists among us maby urin is better it was easly
transported an was period corect. they used back then as an anti  foweling
cleaning agent.
purests out there.     got any great comments and words of wisdom????????

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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 04:51:51 -0700
From: [e-mail] (john c funk,jr)
Subject: MtMan-List: [e-mail] (kent klein): wow!

Below are Kent Kleins comments to: "don't spend money on a book" comment.
 As I suspected, there is MUCH more to tanning with alum ,or any other
method for that matter,  than the over simplified steps outlined earlier.

Food for thought.

PS. I have nothing personal to gain by noting the efforts of Mr. Klein.
I just appreciate anyones hard work and their time spent on promoting
their own efforts providing the information is sound and researched.

John Funk





- --------- Begin forwarded message ----------
From: [e-mail] (kent klein)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: wow!
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 00:56:02 EDT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>

Greetings; I must first say John that , with all due respect to Mr. Barry
Powell, the method prescribed by him in tanning with alum is only
similiar in that at some point, alum is indeed used. Beyond that, and
again with no disrespect, th differances and i feel confident in saying,
the outcomes, are very differant. Rather than a detailed description of
the differances, which is covered very thouroughly in my book, i think it
best to briefly outline some thoughts on each of the 5 steps as described
by Mr. Powell. First: Fleshing the hide is indeed very important. Period.
Second:I use lime to slip the hair but lye and ashes will work. However,
it is VERY important to bring the hide back to a neutral PH after using
any of these chemicals, etc. (they induce a very high PH). If you don't,
well don't expect a hide you can be proud of. Ammonium sulfate works very
well to neutralize the hide(as does vinegar). This must be done prior to
the tanning solution. Third:The ratio of ten pounds of salt (non-iodized!
and NOT rock salt) is TOO much. A better ratio is 5 pounds salt to 2
pounds alum. The differance may sound trifal but is essential.
Fourth:Not much to add here for lack of space. Fifth: NEVER let any hide
"dry" before applying a softening  agent. The hide will absorb (key word)
the oil better when applied right after coming out of the tanning
solution. I have never used vegetable oil as described. Rather, i use
sulfinated tanning oil (fancy name for rendered fish oil) as used by
modern tanneries making quality "garment tanned" fur for coats, etc..
Just as adding brains in a brain tan adds lanolin as a softening agent,
it is necessary to "add" this in to an alum tanned hide. Once the oil has
been applied, it need not be re-applied, at least with sulfinated oil. My
wife won't chew hides so, i use a staker, simply made, to break my hides
on and it works quit well. (not a sales pitch but again, described in my
book). As with anything there are little "tricks" that when taken as a
whole, combined with an overall sound tanning method will produce a very
nice, durable alum tanned hide. I have used this method to tan buffalo,
elk, deer, antelope, moose, emu(yes, a bird skin), numerous furbearers
and even a cocker spaniel(don't ever assume that when a stranger calls
and asks if you can tan a dog, they automatically mean a coyote). Alum
tanning is not the perfect tan. It is my experiance that a smoked alum
tanned hide will work much better as  moccasins, leggings, etc. as the
creosote adds an additional tanning agent and water repellencey. I do
even cheat and apply a liberal amount of Thompsons Water Seal to my
smoked hides with no ill effects but several positive ones. (sorry if i
have offended the purist). So, those are my thoughts in a nutshell.
Obviously, there is alot of detail left out but i hope i have at least
interested somebody to perhaps try  an alum tan. The Egyptians used it so
it has been around for awhile. Oh yes, one more thing. I estemate that a
cost per alum tanned hide runs about 2 to 3 dollers  per hide for
chemicals, etc., pretty reasonable. Thankyou for the oppertunity to
discuss the alum tanned process. Please feel free to post this as you see
fit John. If i have raised more questions than answers, please pass them
along and i will try to answer them. Best regards to all, I remain your
humble servant, Kent Klein.
- --------- End forwarded message ----------

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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 17:23:35 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parafin oil

As I said, it's an early name for lamp oil or kerosene.  Do
>NOT attempt to use it for waterproofing as you would essentially make a
>huge, solvent soaked torch just begging for a stray spark to come
>visiting.  I think the general consensus reached on the other list was
>that this "paraffin oil" dates at the EARLIEST to the mid 1850's.

The general consensus among living history types is that since we know
kerosene (paraffin oil) came into widespread use by the Union Army sometime
during the Civil War, and since its use is largely undocumented in the 50s,
the best period for its use by reenactors in 1861 and after.  Candles,
whale oil, tallow, etc. before that.  I do hope someone can positively
document its use prior to the 1860s.  Two good books on early lighting are:

O'Dea, William T.  _The Social History of Lighting_.  New York: The
McMillan Company, 1958.

and

Thwing, Leroy.  _Flickering Flames:  A History of Domestic Lighting through
the Ages_.  Rutland, VT: Charles E. Tuttle Co., 1958.

Cheers,
HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
******  Living History . . . Because it's there!  *******

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 09:12:45 -0700
From: Frank <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sons of a Trackless Forest

Terry,

Well your question actually makes me feel better.  I'm in the same boat
you are and wondering the same thing.  Since we're not alone, it's
probably just some hold up with printing like you said.  The response was
probably more than expected.  If I hear anything I'll post it here and
you do the same!

Watch yor har!

Frank (Medicine Bear) Stewart

Terry Venden wrote:

> Help,
> Sending out a feeler to find out if anyone has ordered and received
> their copy of Mark Baker's new book.  I ordered one in Dec., sent my
> money in and still haven't received the book..  They were having some
> trouble with the printing but I would hope that they have that taken
> care of.  Tried to call his publishers company in TN but no number is
> listed.  Thought I'd ask before writing and if no one has received
> theirs then I'll be a little more patience.
> Really enjoy reading all the different treads that you all generate.
> Thanks for the help.
> Terry (Medicine Bear),  Pineywoods Buckskinners, Texas

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End of hist_text-digest V1 #85
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