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hist_text-digest         Monday, June 8 1998         Volume 01 : Number 082




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 21:43:51 -0700
From: Chris Sega <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re:Southwest supplies and clothes

Thanks for the reply Mike. I have the mtn mans sktchbk 1.  Frankly Im
too clumsy to build anything without better plans than what is shown in
the sketch book.  I'm lookin to buy a jacket or get real detailed plans
so I dont fart around producing some ill fitting monstrosity.  There has
to be some trader out there with products that are southwest influenced.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 02:50:09 -0500
From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Was Southwest supplies and clothes Now:NMLRA

Washtahay-
    Mike, you seem to speak from a position of some knowledge in defense of
the NMLRA.  Perhaps you would be so kind as to provide me with an
accounting of the funds allegedly stolen, the amount recovered, the cost of
its recovery, and an explanation as to what charges were filed-or why none
were.  This is information the NMLRA told me was (and I do quote) "none of
your business".  Yes, I was a member at the time.
    I admit I am biased against the NMLRA, based on what I have observed of
the way it conducts business.  Show me I am wrong.
    I won't dignify your comments about "Leave the arguuing to the old timers"
with a response.
LongWalker c. du B

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 06:48:59 -0500
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:Southwest supplies and clothes

Call James "Horsefly" Halter in Henrietta, Texas.  He used to make the
buckskinner trade circuit and sold lots of southwestern style clothes.  He
services the gunfighters these days but he is still a damn fine tailor and
can probably make whatever you want.  Some of his clothes were seen in the
movie Tombstone.  Be forewarned, he is sometimes as cranky as a cold Model T
Ford.  Ask about his boots, too.
Lanney Ratcliff
[e-mail]
- -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Sega <[e-mail]>
To: Mtnmanlist <[e-mail]>
Date: Sunday, June 07, 1998 11:21 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Re:Southwest supplies and clothes


>Thanks for the reply Mike. I have the mtn mans sktchbk 1.  Frankly Im
>too clumsy to build anything without better plans than what is shown in
>the sketch book.  I'm lookin to buy a jacket or get real detailed plans
>so I dont fart around producing some ill fitting monstrosity.  There has
>to be some trader out there with products that are southwest influenced.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 08:00:45 -0500
From: WIDD-Tim Austin (WIDD-Tim Austin) <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Getting Started in Buckskinning

Many have seemed to be obsessed with the use of Pyrodox.  WHY???
If you are in the sport and pastime of buckskinning the object is historical
accuracy, not just who can dress the funniest (as some I have seen at
different rendezvous).  The use of Pyrodox shows that you are not
really interested in "doing it right", so no wander your other stuff is so
bad.  Guess you are the ones I see with the chrome tanned leather on
and saying "it is just as good".

Either do it right or don't do it.

Tim Austin

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 10:03:21 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Southwest supplies and clothes

>Chris: look for a book published by the Fur Press, PO Box 604, Chadron, Neb.
>69337. The book is called "The Monutain Man Sketch Book vol. 1." It has a
>pattern for a short Mexican jacket. If you are looking for the later one
>that some folks wear. I might suggest the Buffalo Hunters Sketch Book. I
>might as well weigh in on the issue of fire arms for youngsters.

Chris,
Mike is right about recommending the Sketchbook series.  Their value is
that they give you ideas on the stylistic possibilities, and they let you
see each part and show you how they all fit together.  Be aware, though,
that they really aren't true patterns, per se, but exploded drawings
showing each part of the garment.  You still have to translate the
proportions to full size and make the pattern before you begin cutting
fabric or buckskin.   I woulkd prefer real patterns, because I don't know
how to translate those proportions very well.  I've tried it and it didn't
work.  Patterns for SW fur trade clothing would make life so much easier.

HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
******  Living History . . . Because it's there!  *******

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 10:09:37 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:Southwest supplies and clothes

>Call James "Horsefly" Halter in Henrietta, Texas.  He used to make the
>buckskinner trade circuit and sold lots of southwestern style clothes.  He
>services the gunfighters these days but he is still a damn fine tailor and
>can probably make whatever you want.  Some of his clothes were seen in the
>movie Tombstone.  Be forewarned, he is sometimes as cranky as a cold Model T
>Ford.  Ask about his boots, too.
>Lanney Ratcliff
>[e-mail]

Horsefly is a good source for information and ideas, and he's an excellent
period tailor, but unless he's is willing to reproduce his patterns for
sale, I think we're back at square one.  I could buy what I need from
Horsefly, which I have done, but I too would like to have a New Mexican
jacket made by my own hands.  I have the skins, but not the patterns.

HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
******  Living History . . . Because it's there!  *******

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 17:31:07 -0400
From: seanbear <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner!

Just a few regarding doing things together...  My Buckskinning is one of the
reason I got divorced... and that is not bad... <grin>  My ex never wanted
to go with me and never seemed to have the time... Said it was just "all
games, and I didn't need games..."  People, I'm here to tell ya that a
family that does not do things together isn't going to be around along.  I
met a wonderful lady who LOVES Buckskinnin, and now I am married to her.  My
son has been shooting BP since he was a squirt <8 yrs old> and still enjoys
it.  Vicki and I were married at the Alafia this pasT January in an old
fashioned Celtic Highland ceremony (see
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/1427 for pictures), and now my
son and his fiance want to get married at the next Alafia with a Highland
Ceremony.  He's been bitten by the bug... hehe

I know this is off the subject of the young man and his first BP front
stuffer, but I wanted to let everyone know that this is a family "sport",
and enjoyed by all.

Addison Miller
aka Seanbear


- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Thursday, June 04, 1998 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner!


>In a message dated 98-06-03 15:18:25 EDT, you write:
>
><< My almost 12-yr old has been bitten bad: reads nothing but fur trade
> books, built himself a MM rig, plans to move to canada in a few yrs and
> live the life.  He's getting a .40 caliber muzzleloader for his
> birhtday, but neither of us know anything about shooting.  I'm looking
> for books/videos that could help a couple of novices. Thanks.
>                             K.Kierst
>  >>
>
>Tell the list where you live and how far you will drive to get to an event.
>Then when we reply with dates and times of any shoot/camp, take your son
and
>go.  At the event ask for the range officer or booshway and tell them you
>would like some help in learning to shoot your new .40.  I have never been
to
>a camp that would not get you 5 to 10 people willing to take you by the
hand
>and lead you thru all you need to know for safe fun shooting and some can
even
>make cleaning your smokepole fun as well.
>
>And well you are cleaning up, saay a little prayer of thanks to the grand
>fathers and spirts for the joy of having a son that wants to do something
with
>you.  Re-inacting, rendezvous and muzzleloading is a great family
experiance.
>If you get the latest issue of Smoke & Fire my daughter and I are shown
>shooting on page 23.
>
>Welcome to the wonderful world of living history, and welcome to your son.
>This life style/hobby will die without the interest and participation of
new
>generations.
>
>Your Humble Servant
>
>C.T. Oakes
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 09:56:51 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Tail  Shooting Pouch

SORRY TED WILL RETRANSMIT ACCORDINGLY---
      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]

On Sun, 07 Jun 1998 18:08:38 EDT [e-mail] (Ted A Hart) writes:
>You sent the wrong e-mail to the wrong person.  But it was nice to
>hear from ya :)
>
>Ted
>
>On Sun, 7 Jun 1998 00:04:31 -0400 [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
>writes:
>>good talking to you and will ship your pattern and buckel out
>monday--
>>will look thru the garage and see if i have the pattern and will ship
>
>>it too if i find it-.  last copy of instructions so please return
>when
>>you are done with it--good hunting and good buckskinning---keep your
>>nose to the wind and your eyes along the skyline---
>>
>>YMHOSANT
>>
>>      "Hawk"
>>Michael Pierce
>>854 Glenfield Dr.
>>Palm Harbor, florida   34684
>>1-[phone]
>>_____________________________________________________________________
>
>>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get
>>completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno
>>at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>_____________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get
>completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno
>at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 12:07:34 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner!  (simple common sense approach)

HOW ABOUT A SIMPLE SOLUTION WITH A COMMON SENSE APPROACH---
please be prepared this is going to take some time---------

there has been over 30 postings on this subject and we have been around
the horn from everything but the original question that was
asked----everyone has put their emotional 2 cents in and stated all the
organizations and their likes and dislikes---

who can answer this question??????---is there videos or books that would
be good for a new shooter---I can answer this-------try "Shooting and
winning with the champions"  from National Muzzle loading rifle
association $12.00 (nonmembers) and they have a full series of slides and
training materials and video's that is available---phone number is as
follows:  1-812-667-5131---I DON'T CARE WHETHER YOU LIKE THE NMLRA OR NOT
THEY HAVE GOOD SOLID AND CORRECT INFORMATION AVAILABLE THAT WILL NOT
STEER A NOVICE WRONG---

NOW ON THE GUN THING---
I have helped a many new shooter get started, and a Darn good starting
point for a youngster is to find a Numerich under hammer action and butt
stock  if it has a barrel then You can use it as it is (total cost
usually less than $200.00) but usually I  unscrew the barrel and throw it
away--order a good barrel from any reputable maker---from 13/16 to 1 1/8
depending on what you feel is appropriate--caliber is unimportant--as
long as the thread is 5/8 18 threads per inch---in the breach ---- drill
and tap one hole for the nipple on the bottom flat of the barrel and
insert a nipple usually 1/4 28 --- cut 2 dovetails for sights or drill
and tap and screw sights on as appropriate.  cut the barrel length to any
size from 18" to the full length that is supplied by the maker-- a 13/16
barrel weights approximately 2.3 oz per in of barrel 40 cal---a 1 1/8
weighs 4.3 oz per inch in a 40 cal
SO--------CUT THE BARREL TO THE LENGTH THAT YOU WANT TO GET THE WEIGH OF
GUN YOU WANT---BARREL WEIGHT WILL BE LIGHTER IF YOU USE LARGER
CALIBER---I have an original under hammer target rifle with a 18 inch
barrel---very accurate.

now the kid has a rifle he can grow with and change to any caliber up to
about 54 by simply buying a good quality barrel and installing it----all
work can be done with a drill press and taps and some files.

NOW SOMETHING NEAR AND DEAR TO MY HEART------SAFETY-------
IMPORTANT----IMPORTANT----IMPORTANT---

Yes there are some 13/16 barrels out there in 45 cal---these are
marginal---by my way of thinking and I have seen several that have split
and done some strange things when breech plugs and overcharging
occurs---this can easily happen----I DO NOT RECOMMEND A 13/16 BARREL FOR
ANY CALIBER OVER .40---- a 13/16 barrel is .8125 dia across the flats or
.206 material thickness if the bore is perfectly centered---install a
standard 5/8 18 thread breech plug and you have a .093 wall thickness at
the weakest point---KINA THIN DON'T YOU THINK -----I VERY SELDOM USE A
BARREL WITH FLATS LESS THAN 15/16 FOR THAT REASON-----BUT I TAKE THE DUMB
STUPID SAFE WAY APPROACH.

THE SUGGESTION OF A .500 BARREL IN 13/15- IS ASKING TO HAVE YOUR HEAD
BLOWN OFF OR YOUR EYES PUT OUT-----THIS OLD MAN ISN'T GOING TO DO IT AND
I KINA LIKE MY ARMS AND EYES BETTER---THIS MUST BE THE PROZAC KICKING
IN--------

THE comments of the junior shooter only hitting 3 targets is something
that should be addressed-- i suggest you take that junior shooter out and
do some practice prior to going to a shooting match-- teach him sight
alignment and sight picture if he cannot hold the gun then it's time to
get him or her a gun that they can hold or refrain from their shooting
until they are big enough to shoot it---most sub junior matches are
usually shot from a rest because of this----I built a full size 9 lb
hawkens for a kid in 54 cal---but he is a big kid and could hold it and
14 years old---I took him out and taught him how to load and to shoot it
properly---and made him clean it too.  I took him to the North Carolina
State championships with myself and his father after shooting it for only
one  day---He won the Junior aggregate and 3 of the 4 matches in the
aggregate---shot a 46 on a big bull off hand and 48 off the bench at 50
yds.  YES THE KID HAS SHOT BEFORE--- MANY HRS WITH A 22 RIFLE---YES WE
SIGHTED THE GUN IN TO MATCH HIS SIGHT PICTURE--FIXED IRON SIGHTS--

In november last year he killed his first deer with it--had to call me
and tell me about it and the thrill of using his muzzle loader will stay
with him the rest of his life.  His dad didn't want him to start with
junk---and loose interest in the sport---I built his dad a gun over 10
years ago and it is still as accurate as the day it was built---and he
knows the difference a good barrel and lock will make----

I HAVE BEEN ON THE GRANDSTAND LONG ENOUGH--DOES THIS ANSWER THE ORIGINAL
QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED THAT I HAD HOPED THAT SOMEONE ELSE SHOULD HAVE
TAKEN THE TIME TO ANSWER.

please list forgive me for the shouting---some very important points
needed to be made---you may or may not agree with me on this subject but
we have completely gotten  off the original subject of the question
asked----OR IS IT MY EYES ARE FAILING ME AND I HAVE FORGOTTEN HOW TO
READ.  I apologize now if i have offended anyone with my comments and my
common sense approach---I TRIED THE "SO WHAT"  TEST AND IT WASN'T
WORKING---

      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]

On Sun, 7 Jun 1998 13:30:05 EDT <[e-mail]> writes:
>In a message dated 98-06-06 23:25:01 EDT, you write:
>
><< Forgive me for weighing in a second time on this topic, and I
>certainly
>mean no
> disrespect for HBC, but I would like to enter into the discussion the
>ability
> of a larger caliber frontstuffer rifle (or gun for that matter!!) to
>be
>lightly
> loaded for a young shooter.  This all but eliminates recoil and will
>still
> shoot surprisingly well.
>
>I think you're addressing my comment about recoil.  True, a G/P CAN be
>lightly
>loaded & give surprising accuracy at short range -- I have one in .50
>percussion that does very well with 25 gr FF.  It does much better at
>50 gr
>with very little recoil.  Even at my hunting charge of 100 gr the
>recoil is
>fairly light.  That particular rifle handles the heavy loading very
>nicely as
>do most of the truer Hawkin designs.  Their weight & stock design was
>built
>for it.  You're absolutely correct in saying a front stuffer's ability
>to
>handle & be loaded with various charges makes more versitile for the
>beginning
>shooter.
>
>  Your later comment about a young teen toting a 9 lb rifle then
>becomes the
>primary objection.  With the heavier calibers, comes a heavier barrel.
> True,
>I've seen a .50 bore in a 13/16" barrel, but that's AWFULLY thin &
>it's a
>custom made barrel.  I recently scored a young teen through our rifle
>course
>at our Rondy.  He was toting what looked like a Tradition or CVA .50
>that was
>just too much rifle for him.  He battled with that heavy piece all the
>way.
>It was so heavy for him, he had to swing it up into position then
>struggle to
>hold it.  When he'd tire a bit, he's switch fron shooting left handed
>to right
>handed & vice versa.  To make matters worse, his dad had given him the
>wrong
>size ball & by the time he had it started in the muzzle, it was no
>longer a
>round ball, but a "wadcutter".  Definitely a bad scene!  This is the
>type
>thing that will discourage a youngster & is exactly what we're hoping
>to
>avoid.  I'll give this young man credit -- he finished the 20 shot
>course &
>even managed to hit 3 targets.  He did better than my granddaughters
>did --
>they were using the modified Pedersoli .45 my wife uses that weighs
>6lbs, only
>has 26" Orion barrel & a 12 1/2" pull & at 40 gr FFF is a real joy to
>shoot --
>or it was until I shortened the pull.  I've only shot it once since I
>shortened it up for her & it whacked my nose 'cuz it don't EVEN fit me
>any
>more.  One granddaughter made 5 shots & the other 9, but it was their
>first
>time & I think they bit off more than they expected.  We realy need to
>encourage our young teens by not punishing them with a rifle that
>kicks or is
>so heavy they just can't handle it.  Unfortunately very few
>manufacturers are
>building "kid" & "women" rifles.  Dixie Gun Works makes the "Cub", but
>it's
>barrel leaves a bit to be desired.  T/C makes the Senica, but it's
>design
>doesn't fit into a true period rifle peramiter.  I've only seen the
>one
>Pedersoli we have that was built for kids & women.  Not all fathers/
>husbands/grandfathers have the ability to re-barrel & cut stocks, so
>that
>leaves us with having an existing rifle modified by a competant
>gunsmith or
>having a custom rifle built.  Doing that for the wife is one thing
>when we
>know it's going to be her rifle for a long time, but doing it for a
>teen who's
>going to out grow it in 2 - 4 years ---- well -- that's a problem.  I
>wish
>there was a way to build an adjustable stock.  Maybe the solution is
>to buy
>the $100 Traditions & CVA's to modify until they quit growing then get
>them a
>GOOD rifle.  Those of us who have built small rifles for our
>kids/grandkids/
>wives should be more generous in passing them down to future shooters
>we know.
>Remember -- they're OUR future in keeping this sport we love alive
>into the
>next 100 years.
>
>In the powder expiraments you've been discussing with Fred -- look at
>flash
>points too.  This should explain the problem with Pyrodex & flint
>locks.
>
>NM
>
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 09:18:53
From: Carlson Wagonlit Travel <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Getting Started in Buckskinning

At 08:00 AM 6/8/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Many have seemed to be obsessed with the use of Pyrodox.  WHY???
>If you are in the sport and pastime of buckskinning the object is historical
>accuracy, not just who can dress the funniest (as some I have seen at
>different rendezvous).  The use of Pyrodox shows that you are not
>really interested in "doing it right", so no wander your other stuff is so
>bad.  Guess you are the ones I see with the chrome tanned leather on
>and saying "it is just as good".
>
>Either do it right or don't do it.
>
>Tim Austin
>

Tim,
I really resent your remarks.
Since I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion here's mine.
First, black powder isn't available everywhere, I had heard  one of the
Carolina
States just banned BP as a propellant. When I first started in this pastime
I used
Pyro because I didn't know any better nor was powder available to me.
Second off everyone knows just how spendy brain tan is, and not everyone
has the space or the time to do it themselves. So they have to go with the
best alternative they can. It's to bad that you can't accept everyone into
the sport
and let them learn and teach them the right way by sparking the interest in
the historical
aspect of our sport and letting them make their own persona.
Now I agree that there are the people that are the most tacky in the world
and make their
buckskins out of nagohyde(sp) and think this is just as good as anything
else, if these are the
people you are talking about please accept my sincere apologies.

Matt Mitchell
Palouse Hills Muzzleloaders
Moscow, Idaho
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 12:20:59 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Getting Started in Buckskinning

concur with the do it right or dont do it----My black is a heck of a lot
more dependable than a lot of those that I see at deer camp that ues
pyrodex and have missfires 30 % of the time---have just about got them
all convenced--I  load my rifle at opening morning and the load is in the
barrel until I get my shot or we get ready to leave---just remove the
prime and make it safe ever night and keep it in a dry place---She aint
failed me yet---has held a load in cold--wet and damp for over a week and
still will shoot ---

      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]

On Mon, 08 Jun 1998 08:00:45 -0500 WIDD-Tim Austin (WIDD-Tim Austin)
<[e-mail]> writes:
>Many have seemed to be obsessed with the use of Pyrodox.  WHY???
>If you are in the sport and pastime of buckskinning the object is
>historical
>accuracy, not just who can dress the funniest (as some I have seen at
>different rendezvous).  The use of Pyrodox shows that you are not
>really interested in "doing it right", so no wander your other stuff
>is so
>bad.  Guess you are the ones I see with the chrome tanned leather on
>and saying "it is just as good".
>
>Either do it right or don't do it.
>
>Tim Austin
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 12:27:43 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner!

good comments--seanbear---it's a way of life and thinking---
      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]

On Thu, 04 Jun 1998 17:31:07 -0400 seanbear <[e-mail]>
writes:
>Just a few regarding doing things together...  My Buckskinning is one
>of the
>reason I got divorced... and that is not bad... <grin>  My ex never
>wanted
>to go with me and never seemed to have the time... Said it was just
>"all
>games, and I didn't need games..."  People, I'm here to tell ya that a
>family that does not do things together isn't going to be around
>along.  I
>met a wonderful lady who LOVES Buckskinnin, and now I am married to
>her.  My
>son has been shooting BP since he was a squirt <8 yrs old> and still
>enjoys
>it.  Vicki and I were married at the Alafia this pasT January in an
>old
>fashioned Celtic Highland ceremony (see
>http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/1427 for pictures), and
>now my
>son and his fiance want to get married at the next Alafia with a
>Highland
>Ceremony.  He's been bitten by the bug... hehe
>
>I know this is off the subject of the young man and his first BP front
>stuffer, but I wanted to let everyone know that this is a family
>"sport",
>and enjoyed by all.
>
>Addison Miller
>aka Seanbear
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>Date: Thursday, June 04, 1998 8:57 AM
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner!
>
>
>>In a message dated 98-06-03 15:18:25 EDT, you write:
>>
>><< My almost 12-yr old has been bitten bad: reads nothing but fur
>trade
>> books, built himself a MM rig, plans to move to canada in a few yrs
>and
>> live the life.  He's getting a .40 caliber muzzleloader for his
>> birhtday, but neither of us know anything about shooting.  I'm
>looking
>> for books/videos that could help a couple of novices. Thanks.
>>                             K.Kierst
>>  >>
>>
>>Tell the list where you live and how far you will drive to get to an
>event.
>>Then when we reply with dates and times of any shoot/camp, take your
>son
>and
>>go.  At the event ask for the range officer or booshway and tell them
>you
>>would like some help in learning to shoot your new .40.  I have never
>been
>to
>>a camp that would not get you 5 to 10 people willing to take you by
>the
>hand
>>and lead you thru all you need to know for safe fun shooting and some
>can
>even
>>make cleaning your smokepole fun as well.
>>
>>And well you are cleaning up, saay a little prayer of thanks to the
>grand
>>fathers and spirts for the joy of having a son that wants to do
>something
>with
>>you.  Re-inacting, rendezvous and muzzleloading is a great family
>experiance.
>>If you get the latest issue of Smoke & Fire my daughter and I are
>shown
>>shooting on page 23.
>>
>>Welcome to the wonderful world of living history, and welcome to your
>son.
>>This life style/hobby will die without the interest and participation
>of
>new
>>generations.
>>
>>Your Humble Servant
>>
>>C.T. Oakes
>>
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 12:33:19 -0500
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:Southwest supplies and clothes

For them what's interested in dressing up right fancy so they can go dance a
fandango with the pretty young senoritas.

Lance Grabowski has the remaining inventory of the Old Green River Forge
patterns.  He has in stock The Southwest jacket, Southwest pants, and
Southwest
ladies outfit.  His phone number is 505-471-0011.  I just spoke with him - so
hurry before he runs out.

John...
Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 14:39:36 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner!

Right on!!!!  We are Buckskinners/Mountain Persons aren't we?


Red Hawk

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 13:51:58 -0500
From: "Ken " <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:Southwest supplies and clothes

Thanks John,
Just got off the phone with Lance. I ordered the jacket and the pants.
Price is really fair as well. Lance and I go back to the 1974 Henry's Fork
Rendezvous so it is always fun to talk with him.
YMOS,
YellowFeather

- ----------
> From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:Southwest supplies and clothes
> Date: Monday, June 08, 1998 12:33 PM
>
>
>
> For them what's interested in dressing up right fancy so they can go
dance a
> fandango with the pretty young senoritas.
>
> Lance Grabowski has the remaining inventory of the Old Green River Forge
> patterns.  He has in stock The Southwest jacket, Southwest pants, and
> Southwest
> ladies outfit.  His phone number is 505-471-0011.  I just spoke with him
- - so
> hurry before he runs out.
>
> John...
> Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
> John Kramer  <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 16:10:17 -0500
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hemp

At 12:21 AM 6/7/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Hail the list:
>
>Although this URL is regestered to Hemp Textiles
>International the resultant page is for VERIO
>a Pacific Northwest ISP.
>
>Is Hemp Textiles out of business??
>
>Regrads,
>/Ken
>
>
>On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:46:59 EDT, you wrote:
>
>>also check out <http://www.hemptex.com/>www.hemptex.com
>>
>>Todd
>

Try <http://<http://www.hempseed.com/>www.hempseed.com/> a different group but
links to hemp related information.

John...

Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 18:42:45 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hemp

Try  www.hemptraders.com and check out the fabric swatches.

Todd Glover

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 19:54:52 -0400
From: Linda Holley <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner!

> I DON'T CARE WHETHER YOU LIKE THE NMLRA OR NOT
> THEY HAVE GOOD SOLID AND CORRECT INFORMATION AVAILABLE THAT WILL NOT
> STEER A NOVICE WRONG---
>

actually .....NMLRA....can and has stirred many a persom wrong.  Depends on
the area you are talking about...that is my 2cents.

Linda Holley      NMLRA member #5245

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 21:34:11 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Southwest supplies and clothes

try dale harrison at the blanket brigade 610-381-4400, he has lots of nice SW
stuff

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 21:45:48 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Help! My kid & Regards to Sean Bear

Right on Seanbear

Family Family Family

People may think we're the Hatfields & McCoys, but we just look that way.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 21:22:32 +0000
From: David Mullen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Conflicting info (FONTENELLE)

Kevin,

In _The Mountain Men and Fur Trade of the Far West_ , Volume V, page 99,
Alan Trottman states:

    "The effects of his heavy drinking and his failures in the mountains
probably broke his spirit. At thirty-nine years of age, Lucien
Fontenelle died at Bellevue (today Bellevue, Nebraska)
    "Father J.P. DeSmet wrote in 1870:"I attended him (Lucien Fontenelle)
in his last moments either in 1838 or 1839. . . Shortly after his death
I started for the Rocky Mountains."

Bernard DeVoto in _Across the Wide Missouri_,  in Chapter X, states:

    ". . . it seems that he (Fontenelle) died sober at Bellvue in 1840"

DeVoto goes on to state in Chapter X, footnote 12:

    " I have made an exhaustive search for an authoritative statement about
Fontenelle's suicide and have had the formidable help of Mrs. Brenda
Gieseker. Items relating to the settlement of his estate can be found
but nothing concerning his death. He may have killed himself, and Meek
seems to be repeating a story common in the mountains, but if he did
there appears to be no supporting evidence beyond Meek's statement,
which dates it wrong."

This is just a small amount of info but it sounds like both Trottman and
DeVoto lean towrds the dying of natural causes (possibly related to
alcoholism).

Hope this of some assistance.

YMHOS,
David Mullen

- --
David Mullen
202 Mesa Verde
Jemez Springs, NM 87025
505.829.3212
email:[e-mail]


[e-mail] wrote:
>
> Hello list. I am new to this and have enjoyed reading the postings, and have
> repilied to a few. I am early in my journey as far as acquiring knowledge is
> concerned and am doing a lot of reading from several sources simultaneously.
> Ran across a conflict from a few different sources regarding one Mr. Fontanell
> (sp). One account i found said he  committed suicide while another said that
> in effect he died fat and happy back in the states. Anyone know where I can
> start my next reading project and find out? Thanks for your patience and your
> info.
>
> Kevin

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 21:40:55 -0700
From: Chris Sega <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re:MtMan-list:Getting Started in Buckskinning

I think the problem with pyro is that it is just more available than
BP.  Almost every gunstore and Walmart,Kmart etc carries it where they
do not carry BP.  BP requires more red tape to sell so when you do find
it it is Expensive.  One store here in Reno carries it, and they want
25$ for 1 pound.  Needless to say I Had to buy Pyrodex or not shoot on
some occasions.  Now I know enough people so that will never happen if I
happen to run out of BP.  And let me throw another log on the fire.
Blackpowder hunting seasons have been made a mockery of by the
introduction of In Line *%##*'n
Rifles.  Pennsylvania Has it Right.  I might not go so far as to promote
only Flinters but definately only Percussion and Roundball for Deer.
I'll go so far as to allow Minie balls for larger game but WHY Scopes
and Rifle Primers and Pellets Of pyro!  Bowhunters use many modern
gadgets but A good, Dedicated bow hunter with a self bow, wood arrows
and all the traditional stuff will bag more game than a guy or gal with
all the modern stuff.  It Just takes more dedication.  And That is what
a BP hunting season is about, Challenge and dedication.  Not developing
new gadgets to work around the Limitations.  Enough Said!

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #82
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