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hist_text-digest         Sunday, May 31 1998         Volume 01 : Number 076




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Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 19:10:35 -0500
From: "Ken " <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horsehair dye

Thanks, my mistake. Sorry Henry!
Ken

- ----------
> From: Joe Brandl <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horsehair dye
> Date: Thursday, May 28, 1998 5:58 PM
>
> Ken,
> the note was from Me not Henry
> Joe
>
> Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:18:50 -0500
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horsehair dye

At 03:20 PM 5/27/98 Henry wrote:
>I'm looking for a good way to dye horsehair, Native and/or modern.=A0 Any
>suggestions?
>
>TIA,
>
>HBC
>

=93To Dye or Color Horse-Hair
Steep in water wherein a small quantity of turpentine has been boiled for=
 the
space of two hours; then, having prepared the colors very hot, boil the hair
therein, and any color, black excepted, will take, but that will only take a
dark-red or dark-blue, etc.=94        from MacKenzie, 1825

Red is made from powdered Brazil-wood, vermilion or anatto; blue from=
 Indigo;
purple from vermilion and spalt; green verdigris and verditer.

These were used with alum, vinegar, mordants, gum water and more.  I have a
great many receipts for dyeing, coloring and staining.  I don't have enough
time to ferret them all out and transcribe.

Some good information on dyeing is available in Elijah Bemiss=92, 1806,=
 Dyer=92s
Companion, reprinted by Dover, ISBN 0-486-20601-7, $6.50 printed on the back
cover of my copy.

Coal-tar colors are a post industrial revolution period.  Our focus is
pre-industrial revolution.  They could be used in the same manner as listed
above.

Kool-Aid, Rit, et al,???????  REALLY NOW!  It may be OK for Hollywood and
fantasmagorical transmogrifications.  But Mountain Men?

John
Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:39:48 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bow and Arrows

In a message dated 98-05-28 12:46:10 EDT, you write:

<< Dennis >>
in reply to your coment when  the spanarde came it was nnear modern times i
beleave the atlata was an ancient tool. used befor the bow and arrow maby
there were a few around. in the far north on the ice cap by escamos-spelling
they were more stone age typ tool. i think i willingly stand corected if not
so. iron tounge

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:46:33 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Egg Powder

In a message dated 98-05-28 16:56:56 EDT, you write:

<< Addison Miller >>
if you cook them you kill the bug  iron tounge

------------------------------

Date: 26 May 98 20:18:42 +0000
From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Just tossing out an idea, ,would like some feedb

Yes, they used to have a voo in September at Bent's.  Then they did some
changes and one of them wqas no shooting.  Thios from the big boys in DC.
After the changes which were hard to swallow by most, the rendezvous was
dropped.  Now it is just living history events.

DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS --- PROPRIETORS OF THE NADA TRADING COMPANY

LODGEPOLE wrote:
>In a message dated 98-05-26 20:16:56 EDT, you write:
>
><< >    Was at Bent's Fort a couple years ago and had a discussion about
>whether or
> > not they had any rendezvous there.
>
> That is strange...I remember some big events in the early fall at Bents
Fort.
> What ever happened to those.  They started around 1980.
>
> Linda Holley >>
>
>
>  Dunno Linda, just know what they told me when I was there.
>
>                                       Longshot
>
>
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:46:36 -0500
From: "Michael Branson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Thanks! :)

I have never personally seen the spirit of the man who keeps walking up the
stairs from the dining room down below but the spirit has been seen at least
thrice that I know of by several people at three different times. The
description of the spirit is always of a man dressed in a black suit with a
white shirt and black tie. He walks up the stairs and disappears. M. Branson
- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Thursday, May 28, 1998 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Thanks! :)


>Yes, well, looks like I will have to talk to the folks in Washington REAL
nice
>:)
>Thanks ,all the input received was very useful.  As to St. Vrain's room
being
>haunted...wow, by whom?  Thought the poor man died a happy camper in Mora
(one
>too many cigars)..although brother Marcellin did committed suicide, but he
is
>buried way back in Ralls County Missouri...
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 03:59:11 -0500
From: Jeff Powers <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bow and Arrows

Ken I use storebought broadheads on my darts












On 1998-05-28 [e-mail] said to [e-mail]
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   >Status:
   >I don't know if this is historically correct or not but my atlatl
   >tips I used were larger than the points I made for my arrows. I
   >made mine of steel or stone or antler and made them longer and
   >usually 3/4 of an inch wide at the base. This seems to have given
   >me more cutting surface, which I consider the most important part.
   >I do know that the atlatl preceded the bow by centuries. Perhaps
   >one of our more learned members might have reference material on
   >this? YMOS,
   >ken YellowFeather
   >----------
   >> Date: Thursday, May 28, 1998 9:43 AM
   >> Michael Pierce wrote:
   >> >
   >> > dont believe the statement about the arrow points and atlatal
   >>points  > being the same size  is totally correct.
   >> I guess what I'm getting at is whether or not the Indians were
   >>using  bows during the pre Columbian times.  Were they using
   >>strictly spears  and atlatls?  Were bows introduced with the
   >>Spanish Conquistadors like  the horse?  If anyone knows of a
   >>reference on the subject, I would  appreciate it.
   >>                            Dennis

Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:03:53 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bow and Arrows

In a message dated 98-05-28 16:58:34 EDT, you write:

<<  [e-mail]. >>
do you know anthing about green willow tea or was some one was just pullin my
leg

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:44:15 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horsehair dye

>Don't know if it would work on horse hair, but I suspect it would.  The kids
>at my school dye their hair with kool aid.  They get really "interesting?"
>reds and greens.
>
>Red Hawk

I thought about food coloring and drink mixes, but they could be too easily
diluted with water, which means they are no good in wet weather.  That's
only theoretical.  If anyone has ever had good LONG TERM results, let me
know.

TIA
HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
******  Living History . . . Because it's there!  *******

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 11:06:04 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: MtMan-List: News flash

The vermilion thief was finally apprehended this morning.  They caught him
red handed.  :-)


Hears-The-Quiet

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
******  Living History . . . Because it's there!  *******

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:43:44 -0400
From: seanbear <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Egg Powder

Not if you dry the mixture in the sun, it doesn't.  Also, a temperature of
at least 140 must be reached and maintained for 10 mins to kill
salmonella...  Or, the food must be washed in a 10% clorox solution... eggs
(in the shells), veggies, etc...  A dehydrator and "sun" does not reach
these temps...

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Friday, May 29, 1998 12:31 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Egg Powder


>In a message dated 98-05-28 16:56:56 EDT, you write:
>
><< Addison Miller >>
>if you cook them you kill the bug  iron tounge
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:40:27 -0400
From: "Mill, Kirk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: buckskinning

Hi, My name is Kirk Mill and I am looking for a buckskinning group in
the SE Pennsylvania area. If you know of one, please give me a holler.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:01:01 -0500
From: Glenn Darilek <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bow and Arrows

Ken wrote:
>
> I am afraid I will have to disagree with you both on "force".

Maybe it is just semantics, but it IS the increased force that makes the
atl-atl work.  Otherwise you could throw the projectile with your arm
only, which would be more accurate.  I must commend you on your atl-atl
skill.  Hitting any game animal with any reliability at all at 25 yards
is a truly amazing feat!

Iron Burner

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 98 15:36:00 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: buckskinning

Hey Kirk,
Try the Lancaster Co. Longrifles.  Contact Chuck & Jenny Eby at:

<[e-mail]>

They have a nice club site and a great annual rendezvous.  Good folk.
Tell them I said to take care of you.

Yr Humbl & Obednt Servnt,
Bruce McNeal

- -----Original Message-----
From:     <[e-mail]> at ##internet
Sent:     Friday, May 29, 1998 2:40 PM
To:     history mailing list <[e-mail]> at ##Internet
Subject:     MtMan-List: buckskinning

Hi, My name is Kirk Mill and I am looking for a buckskinning group in
the SE Pennsylvania area. If you know of one, please give me a holler.

 << File: RFC822.TXT >>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:17:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders 18th Annual Rendezvous (Idaho)

Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders 18th Annual Rendezvous

When:  June 19-21

Where:  2 miles west of Troy, Idaho.

Details:  Events; 30 foot dugout canoes on display,
trailwalk - Men, Women's and Juniors, Trapper's Run, Pistol Shoot, Kids
Shhot - 12 and under, Stupid Conglomerated Shoot.  Prizes awarded for the
best dressed Male and Female and most primitive camp.

Raffle for .54 cal Lyman Plains Rifle, 8 seats on a
dugout canoe ride.

Fees:  Family $20, Couples $15, Individual $10,
Non-shooters camp $10, Traders free with donation.

More Info?  Tom Fleming [phone], Vern Illi [phone], Chris
Lewis [phone]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 00:19:51 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Ted A Hart)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re Sign Language

Actually half of ASL is derived from French Sign Language!  Laurent Clerc
travelled all the way from France to be one of the first deaf teachers
before the "pro-deaf" movement was cut off by "pro-oral (speaking with
lips and voice not hands)" hearing people.  He taught what he knew and at
the time alot of the signs had to be made up like the sign for president
is symbolic of the tri horn hat the president used to wear at that time
and that sign is still used today.  If you go to France you'll understand
half of the signs but you can learn faster becuase you already know half
:)  An interesting discussion going on here as I've heard frequently that
American Indians could and would communicate with deaf people in the past
more easily than non-Indians.  I also have noticed some apparent similiar
signs and am presently considering whether there's a good study/research
subject in there somewhere.

Ted

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 00:19:51 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Ted A Hart)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Indian Sign Language

Uhhh...not to be rude or nothing but the word deaf mute is quite
degrading to a deaf person becuase there aren't any such deaf mutes.  We
can use our voices but most deaf people can just use their voices to
yell, scream, moan or whatnot but most of them can talk some but not too
well while some cannot.  That is an old old term that was used in the
past and not so anymore nowdays.  It's perfectly alright to call a deaf
person deaf but also be careful becuase there are some deaf people who
have become deaf thru accidents etc and deny that they are deaf.  I had
my head nearly bitten off by a woman who DEINED that she was deaf when
she was wearing two hearing aids!  I've also seen some deaf people who
use "cued speech" an invented sign system by lazy hearing people (only 8
signs used with speech) who screamed and ran away from my friends and I
at the mall when we greeted them in the mall!   They were the ones
looking stupid.

Ted

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 00:24:21 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Egg Powder

my dehydrator does. you still cook it you kill it. i mite come out like rubber
thuogh.
oron tounge

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 06:06:03 -0700
From: [e-mail] (john c funk,jr)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Egg Powder

Paul,

Why make it, other than for historical gratification (perhaps), when you
can buy it from most backeries, store, etc.?

John Funk

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 13:54:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: zaslow <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:Davenport Rifle (Thanks)

Just wanted to thank everyone who replied back and gave me information on
the Davenport Rifle.  I will pass it on to my sister so she can give it to
her friend.

Best Regards,

Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488



------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 12:08:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: zaslow <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re Sign Language

Pat is absolutely right.  I know ISL and enough ASL to get by and, with the
exception of a few signs which are the same, they are almost completely
unrelated.  In fact, in deaf sign language there are ASL (American Sign
Language), SSL (Spanish Sign Language), JSL (Japanese Sign Language), FSL
(French Sign Language), etc.  All are different.  I believe in ISL there are
different dialects depending on the tribe and region of the country.  I know
quite a bit about the topic because my wife is hearing impared and she got
her degree in deaf studies.  We also have a lot of deaf friends.

Best Regards,

Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
________________________________________________________________________________

At 11:32 AM 5/28/98 -0700, you wrote:
>                      Re Sign Language
>As many know, one of the requirements for membership in the AMM is to learn at
>least 50 words of Indian Sign Language. After a slow start, I made real
progress
>with a friend during a several day outing, and found the signs coming
pretty quickly,
>although they fade of course without practice. HOWEVER, imagine my
>disappointment to find that this sign language has almost nothing to do
with ASL
>(American Sign Language for the deaf). Big disappointment! I hoped I was at
>least laying a foundation for a communication skill which might be useful in
>modern life. According to my friend, when ASL was designed around the turn of
>the century, Indian culture was in low repute and a deliberate attempt was made
>to avoid using their signs. DRAT!
>Pat Quilter
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 20:21:36 -0700
From: "Gail Carbiener" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: tobacco...

To all:
    This got lost in never never land. Has any one ever tried this manzanita
with tobacco mixture?
Gail  (learning to play a MM in living history)
==============

- --

>I have read that the mountain men used kinnikinnick, which I believe is a
>low ground cover type of manzanita, as a mixture with tobacco. How did they
>prepare the kinnikinnick, did they use the leaves, green or dried. Any idea
>what the proportion was? And was it always used in pipes or did the
mountain
>men roll their own in paper or leaves.
>
>Gail
>

------------------------------

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