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hist_text-digest         Tuesday, May 19 1998         Volume 01 : Number 069




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 15:29:08 -0600
From: bob----debie <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Raton Rondy..

Far-West river gorge mountain man roo will be held May 21-26 just
outside Mesquite, Nv.
Contact Richard Myers  702-346-6038 for info.
this sounds like a busy event.
Wild boar huntjust off site.
Shootin and hawk throwin off horseback, horsedrawn wagon and canoe.
buffalo roast Saturday night.
Chucker and Pheasant release for shot or bow hunt.
A special shoot will be held in powder and bow.  Winner in each of these
categories wins the oppurtinuty (whazzat??!!)to hunt and harvest an
exotic four horned sheep.

Santa Fe Trails shoot.  june 7-13.  Just outside Raton, N.M.

Wolf Creek shoot and roo.  Outside Pagosas Springs, Co.  June 18-21

Hope to see some of ya there
Bob G
Thunder Ridge

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 15:26:49 -0600
From: bob----debie <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Raton Rondy..

EmmaPeel2 wrote:
>
> Where exactly is the Raton Rondy being held, and when? If we hide behind a
> tree, is it possible to camp? Sounds like fun.
\

Off I-25 take exit 455.  Cut back north and under the I.  take that
north to N.M. 555 and then west.  There's a Sonic drive in close to the
intersection.
Take N.M. 555 5.6 miles to the road to Coal Canyon.  that cuts back
south.  look for the signs.

Bob G
Thunder Ridge
http://www.plan-et.com/thunder/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 01:00:56 EDT
From: Casapy123 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Club

Angela,

Thanks for the positive words about the Beaver Club article.  Also thanks for
the additional info.

We tried to get a hold of several different publishers, who had photos of
original Beaver Club medallions in their books, to ask permission to reprint
their picture.  With deadlines and such, we had no luck, thus decided to use a
picture of the current medallion being sold.  You are absolutely right, it is
different from originals in several ways.  As for the ribbon, I tend to think
the medallion was worn suspended from a blue ribbon around the neck, certainly
not from the short ribbon with the metal bar such as is being sold.

If I ever get to those museums, I'd like to take a look at those originals!

Jim Hardee AMM#1676
P.O. Box 1228
Quincy, CA  95971
[phone] (H)
[phone] (W)
[phone] FAX
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 01:00:57 EDT
From: Casapy123 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bug's Boys

Dean,

Thanks for making the point about DeVoto's origin of Bug's Boys.  I once had a
discussion with Dr. Fred Gowans about the origin of "Bug's Boys" and he said
it is not clear where it came from.  He did say that the Beelzebub angle was a
"generally accepted theory" but that still leaves us with no source.  So, it
is better to rely on this as a possible solution and keep searching for first
hand documentation.

Jim Hardee AMM#1676
P.O. Box 1228
Quincy, CA  95971
[phone] (H)
[phone] (W)
[phone] FAX
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 12:23:26 -0600
From: bob----debie <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: looking for a roo

I'm going to be in northern Nevada through the 26th or 27th aned hope to
find a roo between Mesquete, NV and Raton, N.M. the weekend of the 30th.

If you happen to know of a shoot or roo within a day or so drive of that
area would you please let me know?

Thanks
Bob G

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 14:34:18 -0500
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Adhesives

At 08:39 PM 5/10/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Hello the net!
>
>Sorry, but I am bringing out another question here.  It seems I have a real
>talent to get some almost too lively discussion going on the list, but I
think
>I'm safe this time.
>
>My wife teaches school, and is always trying to do projects based on 18th=
 and
>19th century tools and technology.  Does any body have any old recepies for
>adhesives or know some prime ingredients used in them?  She has recepies=
 for
>making soaps, dies, and other things, but not glues.
>
>Any imput would be appreciated.  (Even things that are not totally period
>correct may help with simple projects for children.)  Again, thanks for all
>this list teaches all us pilgrims!
>
>John Fleming
>=20

ADHESIVES

There were many forms of hide glue in the past.  French glue, Scotch glue,
fish hide glue, rabbit skin glue, parchment glue, and more.  Today rabbit
skin glue is available at art supply stores where it is generally used in
conjunction with whiting to size canvas or to make Gesso.

Pearled, ground, or other trade names for the various dry forms of hide
glue, sold by primarily woodworking suppliers, are all about the same
today.  Scotch glue was darker, came from older animals and thought to be
stronger.  French glue was lighter and finer and came from younger animals.
 Masters would blend to meet their requirements and specifications.  The
glue is made from the hides and hooves of horses, cattle and most any other
beast.  The descriptions for rendering, have been generally accurate as
previously posted.

Fish hide glue was a fine grade used in precise work like the assembly of
split Tonkin cane fishing rods.  Parchment being made of lamb skin made
fine glue when rendered.

There have been many receipts developed to use these most common glues to
many purposes.


LIQUID HIDE GLUE

Cover dry glue with strong vinegar (20%+, acetic acid) in a tightly
stoppered glass bottle and set aside several days to dissolve.  NOTE: this
stuff really stinks.

Or go to Sears and buy a squeeze bottle of liquid hide glue (also available
under different labels, all I think made by Franklin) just as inconvenient
to use as any squeeze bottle glue.  Liquid hide glue has a one year shelf
life. =20

Diluting hide glue in whiskey can make liquid hide glue with an unlimited
shelf life.  Other receipts for liquid hide glue include nitric acid and
other less friendly materials.

Glue has been made of many materials, depending on the purpose.  Animal
blood, milk, rosin, resin, lime, eggs, flour, sandarac, mastic, arabic,
parchment, acids, oxides of zinc, copper and other metals, starch,
litharge, wood ashes, India Rubber, isinglass, and much more. =20

Waterproof glues, glues for glass, pottery, china, wood, paper, marble,
leather, tortoise shell, iron vessels, and everything else one can think
of; had glue formulated to each specific purpose in the past.  There is no
need for modern expedients.

Canadian Balsam is still used as cement for microscope slide covers.


A few old receipts=85=20

PORTABLE GLUE

Take 1 lb. of the best glue (dry hide glue), boil and strain it very clear;
boil likewise 4 oz. of isinglass (made from air bladders of sturgeon, not
the mineral), put it in a double glue pot (small double boiler), with 1/2
lb. of fine brown sugar, and boil it pretty thick; then pour into moulds;
when cold cut and dry them in small pieces.  It will fasten paper without
the process of damping.
NOTE: It dilutes immediately in warm water and is most useful to
draughtsmen, architects, turners and more.


FLOUR PASTE

Paste is formed principally of wheaten flour boiled in water till it be of
a glutinous or viscid consistence.  It may be prepared with those
ingredients simply for common purposes; but when it is used by bookbinders,
or for paper-hangings to rooms, it is usual to mix a fourth, fifth or sixth
of the weight of the flour of powdered resin; and where it is wanted still
more tenacious, gum arabic or any kind of size may be added.

JAPANESE CEMENT, or RICE GLUE

This elegant cement is made by mixing rice-flour intimately with cold
water, and then gently boiling it; it is beautifully white, and dries
almost transparent.  Papers pasted together by means of this cement will
sooner separate in their own substance than at the joining, which makes it
useful in the preparation of curious paper articles, as tea-trays, ladies
dressing boxes, and other objects that require layers of paper to be
cemented together.
NOTE:  Rice Glue is excellent for paper conservation work.


Terminology and spellings in the above receipts have been preserved from
the original, extraneous copy edited out.  All are correct to our period of
interest.  Additional information on glue can be found searching the
archive on Dean's web site.


I have been out of town for a few weeks on business and am just now
catching up on my e-mail.=20

John=85



Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 19:04:03 EDT
From: SWcushing <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  MtMan-List: 1803 Harper's Ferry Rifle

In a message dated 5/14/98 5:10:56 PM, you wrote:

<<How can I learn more about the 1803 Harper's Ferry rifle that was issued to
the Lews and Clark expedition? >>

I have a copy of Robert M. Reilly's "United States Martial Flintlocks", that
covers the Harpers Ferry rifle, Model 1803, types 1 and 2 in detail. I'd be
glad to send you a copy of the pages if you need them, just email me your
address.

Reilly does mention however ...."It has also been speculated that they (the H
Ferry
 1803) accompanied the renowned expedition of Lewis and Clark into the
Louisiana Territory in 1804, but this seems somewhat unlikely due to the time
factors involved."  The Model 1803 in both types is historically significant
in that it is the only muzzleloading flintlock RIFLE produced in either of the
national armories. No rifles with flintlock ignition were ever produced at
Springfield
A total of 4,015 Model 1803, Type 1 were produced at Harpers Ferry between
1804 and 1807. Most were  54cal, had a 33 inch barrel, and weighed about 9lbs.
A substantial number of existing Model 1803 rifles are know to have smoothbore
barrels. Wether these were reamed out subsequent to manufacture or were
produced as such is not known.

Regards,
Steve

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 23:54:11 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Adhesives

John as usual you outdid yourself with your response.  You are a wealth
of knowledge and when you come on line you say it like it is.  this
should put the glue and adhesives thing to bed I will be storeing your
response for future usage.

many thanks for your offline help with finishes and your taking the time
when i called.  Hope you get to turkey hunt and get a big one-with the
call i made for you  I got a 17 lb gobbler with my 28 gage trade gun this
year.  used one of my calls and he ran almost over the top of me.  came
in from my back passed within about 7 or 8 yards and headed for the decoy
and started to strut with love on his mind.  smoke cleared and bird was
down -  5 pellets in his head using a 1  3/4 oz combination of bb and
0000 buck mixed  backed with  85 gr fffg.

AGAIN ---DARN GOOD INPUT-- KEEP UP THE GOOD INFO.

      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 00:12:05 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1803 Harper's Ferry Rifle (THE FOR RUNNER FOR  THE HAWKINS)

steve:

where did you get the book you use for reference-- I would like to get a
copy for my library- the photo copies of the pages you sent me gave some
darn good info.  many thanks.   I dropped the guy that had the Jacob
dickard a note and asked if he still had the gun I would appreciate some
pictures of it for you.  haven't got a response from him but if i do i
will contact you offline and get you a copy of them for your reference
and file.

list:
It was always my impression that lewis and clark did have 1803 harper's
ferries with them and they were the pre production guns to be tested on
the frontiers. they had rifled and smoothbore all were in  54 cal or
about 28 gage.  I saw one that had a .527 bore on it but it had very
shallow rifling and a slow twist like it was made to shoot round ball and
minnie's and to load easily.

it is still my belief that the 1803 rifle and the english sporting rifle
were the combination that lead to the Hawkens-  Jake and sam used the
better points of each and made something that was rugged and dependable--
 they copied the lines and style.

HERE IS A GOOD DISCUSSION TOPIC.
      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]

On Sun, 17 May 1998 19:04:03 EDT SWcushing <[e-mail]> writes:
>
>In a message dated 5/14/98 5:10:56 PM, you wrote:
>
><<How can I learn more about the 1803 Harper's Ferry rifle that was
>issued to
>the Lews and Clark expedition? >>
>
>I have a copy of Robert M. Reilly's "United States Martial
>Flintlocks", that
>covers the Harpers Ferry rifle, Model 1803, types 1 and 2 in detail.
>I'd be
>glad to send you a copy of the pages if you need them, just email me
>your
>address.
>
>Reilly does mention however ...."It has also been speculated that they
>(the H
>Ferry
> 1803) accompanied the renowned expedition of Lewis and Clark into the
>Louisiana Territory in 1804, but this seems somewhat unlikely due to
>the time
>factors involved."  The Model 1803 in both types is historically
>significant
>in that it is the only muzzleloading flintlock RIFLE produced in
>either of the
>national armories. No rifles with flintlock ignition were ever
>produced at
>Springfield
>A total of 4,015 Model 1803, Type 1 were produced at Harpers Ferry
>between
>1804 and 1807. Most were  54cal, had a 33 inch barrel, and weighed
>about 9lbs.
>A substantial number of existing Model 1803 rifles are know to have
>smoothbore
>barrels. Wether these were reamed out subsequent to manufacture or
>were
>produced as such is not known.
>
>Regards,
>Steve
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 07:47:09 EDT
From: JFLEMYTH <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Adhesives

Thanks to every one who sent information about adhesives.  My wife is really
enjoying going through all this.  I think I am going to try some of John
Kramer's concoctions myself!  Again, thanks for all the great input and people
on this list!

John Fleming

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:40:48 -0700
From: "Gail Carbiener" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Medical Remedies....

    Since I am doing living history of a trapper with the Hudson's Bay
Company Brigade on the Snake River in 1826, I have been reading as much as
possible about those times.
    Peter Odgen's journals tell of terrible weather, lack of food and of
course Indian troubles. Only once do I find and reference to medical
problems and that was from eating beaver who were eating hemlock! The
medical solution was to drink pepper and gunpowder mixed in water!
    What about frostbite and freezing of feet, toes, fingers? Odgen even
talks about the men not having shoes or blankets, but no talk of men being
disabled.
    Anybody got other references of such problems and how they were treated?
Gail
(In Cold Central Oregon)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:56:35 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: MtMan-List: Smoke from Mexico

Friends,

Now I can relate somewhat to what the folks in Spokane were getting 18
years ago today.  The Mexican fires are making the skies here more than a
bit hazy.  I really cuts the intensity of the sun, and irritates the eyes
to boot.  Some friends were camping down in Big Bend NP this weekend, and
it was pretty intense for them.  I can't wait till the winds shift.  I hope
my gourd plants survive.  We need a good thunder boomer.


Tears,
HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
******  Living History . . . Because it's there!  *******

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 07:39:25 -0600
From: "Scott Singer - \"Spinner\"" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: stuck touch hole liner

Anyone have suggestions on how to remove a stuck touchhole liner?  It screws
in with a flat bladed screwdriver.  I usually don't tighten it hard, but I'm
starting to really chew up the slot trying to get it unscrewed.
- -------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Singer, aka "Spinner"
WWW Rendezvous Web Site:
     http://www.geocities.com/~wwwrendezvous
Territorial Dispatch/National Association of Buckskinners Web Site
     http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/4833
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #69
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