ftp.xmission.com

home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search

/ ftp.xmission.com / 2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar / ftp.xmission.com / pub / lists / hist_text / archive / v01.n064 < prev next >

Wrap

Internet Message Format | 1998-05-09 | 40KB

From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #64 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Saturday, May 9 1998 Volume 01 : Number 064 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 09:54:28 -0700 From: Gary Bell <micropt@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: traps Hmmmm, it appears that Hawk and Yellow Feather have been getting into the Kickapoo Joy Juice again. Everybody knows that Sasquatch don't give a hoot for pink! Gary Ken YellowFeather wrote: > > > > Hello the list, > > Hawk and I are debating which traps will work better for trapping a > > sasquatch. # 55 beargetters with teeth or just plain # 42 lion traps. We > > already have pink noggies fer bait! Your consideration in this will be > > greatly appreciated. Serious replies only please! > > Your most obt. servants, > > Messrs. Hawk & YellowFeather ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 13:11:34 EDT From: RR1LA <RR1LA@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coping with a fire ban Angela, We have suffered similar indignities here in California during periods of extreme fire danger, when all open fires were banned. A metal fire ring, above ground, with a coleman stove set inside it worked for cookin', shielded the stove from sight and even provided some 'campfire' ambience after the meal. Another good device for above ground burning and protection from the wind is a washer tub, with perforations, from an old washing machine. (These are GREAT for wood burning fires, too, as they allow drafting, and radiate a tremendous amount of heat.) Hope this helps. PJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 11:35:55 -0600 From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Choker....... I agree with the folks who feel hairpipe was quite scarce until later on. In reading Canadian fur trade journals (1774-1821), I've only found two references to anything at all like hair pipe. In December 1804, Francois-Antoine Larocque traded three strings of "pipe beads" as part of his payment for a mule at the Mandan villages (Masson 1:308). Two years later, Alexander Henry the Younger gave two "wampum hair pipes" and two "wampum shell pipes" as part of his payment for a horse--again at the Mandan/Hidatsa villages (Henry & Coues, 1:355). Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 11:09:09 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" <lahtirog@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coping with a fire ban Dear Angela, Not a whole lot you can do if there is a total fire ban on like you got in Alberta. I have attended vous' in the States out west in years past where a fire ban was gona be in-effect or was expected. Some times the ban was lifted or modifyed by the controling authority but not always and you can't count on it. What you have to do is buy off on that aspect of authenticity and go with gas or propane fired stoves for cooking etc. The reason that charcoal or such is not permitted is simply that when folks dump their ashes they don't always make sure that there are no live coals left. That was a leading cause of house fires or more specifically, garage fires that we responded to in the winter. Folks would empty their fire-places into grocery bags and set the bag out in the garage until trash pickup day or the weather got better. There would inevitably be a live coal in the bag that would set the bag on fire and adios garage/house! Ofcourse most people are smart enough to know this but not all. If you need to do the gas stove bit once in a while it's no big deal when you concider the devistation of a forest fire. I'm sure you agree. Hope this was of help. YMOS Capt. Lahti ret. - -----Original Message----- From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net> To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com <hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com> Date: Friday, May 08, 1998 8:14 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Coping with a fire ban >All of Alberta is under a total fire ban right now, for the first time in >decades. That means no open fires of any kind, not even charcoal barbecues. >People are only allowed to use propane barbecues or campstoves. Has anyone >had to cope with reenacting under such historically-incorrect conditions? >What did you do? > >Your humble & obedient servant, >Angela Gottfred >agottfre@telusplanet.net > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 12:10:46 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" <lahtirog@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: traps Messers. le Hawk and Yellow Feather, Boys am I glad you wrote and asked first! I only hope I truely have caught you in time! The "Hariy Lizards" been trapping sasquatch up here in the Pacific NW for years and we got it down to a science. We don't use leg hold traps or neck snares for obvious reasons that I will go into later. But suffice it to say that a live sasquatch is more valuable to use than a dead or damaged one. I want to assure you that this is the truth and Gaud aufal serious. So pay attention! Most folks who've never been here think we live in a forest of tall trees and grassy glades but not so. We live in the northern corner of the Great American Desert and fire wood is hard to come by, also long poles, which are neccessary if you want to trap a sasquatch live which we do. We borrow 4 of Crazy Lindseys largest teepee poles and set them up on the traping ground with the same tech. you would use to do a Blackfoot or Yakama set. We then borrow the largest landing net ( like we used to let the Jarheads practice scramling up and down the side of our LKA's in and out of the Mick6's and Mick8's) that we can find. This net is rigged horizontally inside the frame of 4 poles about 20' up with a simple release mechanism that can be triped from a remote location. By remote, I simply mean as gal dang far as you can get from the trap and still see it. Thats not a big problem here in Eastern WA since we generally can see for close to a hundred miles in almost any direction and YOU DON'T WANT TO BE CLOSE TO THE TRAP WHEN IT'S SPRUNG! Lots of good "Lizards" gone under over the years before we learned to stay back. Used to be a big outfit, only 10/11 of us left. We like to use hand layed hemp line or Linen line if available for all the rappings, hitches and release lines, in 3/4" or larger for obvious reasons. I say 'line' instead of rope' cause in my Bos'in's locker lines were made of natural or sinthetic fibers and rope was make of steel or a combination of steel and nat. fiber. Now to the bait! We set up the pine board knockdown bed I made for my wife and cover the ticking with several Playboy Centerfolds. This is ofcourse set up centered under the landing net/cargo net. We've never figured out what to use for scent so what we do is have some pilgrim (little case) beat his indian drum in a poor imitation of real Indian Druming. We use the newest guy in the "Hairy Lizards" kind of as a last test to see if he will servive I mean pass the initiation cerimony and actually get his "Lizard". When his Gaud Offle drumming has got the attention of a sasquatch and brought it to the trap, we wait until the critter is full on the bed and then we spring the trap. You erstwhile gentelmen didn't say why you wanted to trap a sasquatch. I can only assume it is for the same reason that we trap em. We trap them to fetch and carry for us, plain and simple! We used to take our wives with us until they figured out that the only reason we wanted them along was to fetch wood and water into camp. It is real dry over here in E WA and every one has built theirhose right along what few water courses there are. So if we want to camp primitive on public land we find ouselves a long way from water. The other problem is fire wood. Nothing grows over here but sage brush and cheat grass. Cheat grass burns so fast that it's hard to make a cup of tea and burning sage brush reminds us of what our 6th grade room smelt like in the winter after Taos had pee'ed on the radiator that fall. Not pleasent. So yes, you guessed it, we catch and train a sasquatch to fetch and carry. Low Number Joe tryed to train one for other duties but he's not with us any more. That was a real bad idea so don't try it, no matter how long you are out. After the sasquatch gets wise to us and quits or runs off we usually can get a few more nights out by burning the four poles we got from "Crazy", afterall he lives on the wet side and can get more. Well this is as serious an answer as your likely to get on the subject and I hope it was of help. Boy I love this List! Oh, yea, Jon Town can coroberate all I'm telling you cause he used to come over here and play with us but he wouldn't listen when we told him not to try to teach the sasqatch how to perform those 'other' services I alluded to. He don't come over here any more. Last time I saw him he was headed over Snoqualmy Pass with a lady sasquatch close on his heels. Have fun with your new knowledge, play safe and have fun. YMOS "Capt." Lahti - -----Original Message----- From: Ken YellowFeather <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net> To: Mtn. Man <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Friday, May 08, 1998 7:03 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: traps > >> >> Hello the list, >> Hawk and I are debating which traps will work better for trapping a >> sasquatch. # 55 beargetters with teeth or just plain # 42 lion traps. We >> already have pink noggies fer bait! Your consideration in this will be >> greatly appreciated. Serious replies only please! >> Your most obt. servants, >> Messrs. Hawk & YellowFeather > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 16:15:03 EDT From: MIA3WOLVES <MIA3WOLVES@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: traps Sasquatch are not in season. Mute point. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 16:23:54 EDT From: Nauga Mok <NaugaMok@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coping with a fire ban In a message dated 98-05-08 11:15:02 EDT, you write: << Has anyone had to cope with reenacting under such historically-incorrect conditions? What did you do? >> Oh, yea! We use Forestry property quite a bit for our events & we normaly have fire bans every summer here in the Nevada desert. Even when we CAN have fires, we're required to have above ground fire pits. For big events, sometimes we're able to get special permission for fires, but that's after many years of working with our local Forestry office & developing some raport with them. For our local events, we just grin & bear it & comply with the regulations even though setting around a Coleman stove doesn't compare to setting around a nice camp fire. It helps to keep in mind that it's for our safety these bans are put into effect even though sometimes they don't make sense. They impose our fire bans based on the condition of the Forestry property in the northern part of the state which is quite diferent here in the southern tip. Forest fires are a reality here -- some part of our mountain range burns nearly every Summer, so we feel Forestry is justified in their caution. It's definitely un-nerving to see smoke start billowing up over the mountain we're camped on when we've seen how hast a wild fire can move -- & we're 15 miles away from the nearest "hard road" with 50 yds of canvas to strike & pack. We've had a realy wet winter due to "El Nin~o", which is probably the cause of your abnormaly dry spell. This means when the forest drys out this Summer, the fire danger will be just that much higher due to all the extra growth going on now while it's wet. NM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 12:53:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: traps On Fri, 8 May 1998, Roger Lahti wrote: > The "Hariy Lizards" been trapping sasquatch up here in the Pacific NW for > years and we got it down to a science. ROFL! Laughed so hard it brought tears to me eyes! Regards Lee Newbill Viola, Idaho email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage http://www.uidaho.edu/~lnewbill/bp.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 19:17:51 -0700 From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coping with a fire ban This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD7AB5.FE85E920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Angel: you do what you have to do or stay home. You could cook in side of your tent. We had to that one year in Utah some were careful with fires and some didn't some went home. Later Jon T - ---------- : From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net> : To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com : Subject: MtMan-List: Coping with a fire ban : Date: Friday, May 08, 1998 7:37 AM : : All of Alberta is under a total fire ban right now, for the first time in : decades. That means no open fires of any kind, not even charcoal barbecues. : People are only allowed to use propane barbecues or campstoves. Has anyone : had to cope with reenacting under such historically-incorrect conditions? : What did you do? : : Your humble & obedient servant, : Angela Gottfred : agottfre@telusplanet.net : - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD7AB5.FE85E920 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">Angel: you do what you have to do or = stay home. You could cook in side of your tent. We had to = that one year in Utah some were careful with fires and some didn't some = went home. Later Jon T ---------- : From: Angela = Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net> : To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com : Subject: MtMan-List: Coping with a fire ban : = Date: Friday, May 08, 1998 7:37 AM : : All of Alberta is under a = total fire ban right now, for the first time in : decades. That = means no open fires of any kind, not even charcoal barbecues. : = People are only allowed to use propane barbecues or campstoves. Has = anyone : had to cope with reenacting under such = historically-incorrect conditions? : What did you do? : : = Your humble & obedient servant, : Angela Gottfred : agottfre@telusplanet.net : </body></html> - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD7AB5.FE85E920-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 22:26:58 -0400 From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coping with a fire ban HI! Two Words...Cold Camp. Dennis Miles Nauga Mok wrote: > In a message dated 98-05-08 11:15:02 EDT, you write: > > << Has anyone had to cope with reenacting under such historically-incorrect > conditions? What did you do? >> > NM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 17:19:46 -0700 From: 2hearts@shasta.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coping with a fire ban Angela, I suspect a cold camp was not unusual for the "old ones" when the Blackfeet were afoot. I think that with a bit ingenuity one could convince themselves that jerky and hardtack could be a palatable fare. The other alternative is go with prepared foods of various sorts that could be eaten cold.....cheese, hams, breads, smoked fish, greens, ect. ect. ect. ...all which are documented foods available at varoius times. Warmth.....well thats a different story. A good Buf. robe will fill the bill and,...... a person of like mind.......if you get my drift I think if one cam recreate mentally situations that the fur traders did/would have experienced, and lord knows they did it all, it's not hard to "recreate". This may seem rather simplistic....but that's my thought on the subject. John Funk Fall River, Cal. - -----Original Message----- From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net> To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com <hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com> Date: Friday, May 08, 1998 8:17 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Coping with a fire ban >All of Alberta is under a total fire ban right now, for the first time in >decades. That means no open fires of any kind, not even charcoal barbecues. >People are only allowed to use propane barbecues or campstoves. Has anyone >had to cope with reenacting under such historically-incorrect conditions? >What did you do? > >Your humble & obedient servant, >Angela Gottfred >agottfre@telusplanet.net > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 23:58:25 EDT From: Casapy123 <Casapy123@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coping with a fire ban Angela, I've done som trekking in the Sierras, (Plumas and Tahoe National Forests) under fire restriction. We created a scenario that Bugs Boys were about and we had to cold camp. We planned lots of meals around jerky, pemmican and the like. It adds a different flavor (Pun intended) to the trip. Can't shoot, move stealthily, etc. These were done in the summer, so it wasn't too cold. We even dodged the Forest Service rangers, calling them Bugs Boys! We also tended to hit the blankets a little earlier since there was no fire to sit around and yack. Mornings were a bit empty without coffee though. Jim Hardee AMM#1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 (530)283-4566 (H) (530)283-3330 (W) (530)283-5171 FAX Casapy123@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 08:58:11 -0600 (MDT) From: Clay Landry <Landry@wtp.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Calico in Fur trade At 04:57 PM 5/7/98 -0500, you wrote: Yes calico was available, but it was >very scarce and very expensive during the fur trade period. - ------------------------ Sorry-but my research indicates that Calico was quite readily available and quite cheap in the Rocky Mountains when compared to other cloth during the 1800-1850 period. From Alexander Henry, Lewis & Clark to later years of Fort Union- just about all of the orignal lists of trade goods and inventories that I have seen contain references to either calico cloth or shirts. Here are a few examples; Pacific Fur Company-Fort Astoria October 1813: 46 yards of printed calico @ 26 cents per yard, 12 pieces India calico, per piece of 4 1/2 yards 81 1/2 cents per yard, cotton check was $1.46 per yard. Alexander Henry-1811-List of trade goods includes; 7 1/2 yards fine Calicoe, 4 1/2 yards linnen, 4 yds checked Cotton cloth. The Calico was valued at "3 skins" per yard while the cotton check was "4 skins" per yard. His list also included "4 fine cotton shirts, 8 Common cotton shirts, and 3 calico shirts". Lewis and Clark- their list of "Indian Presents" includes "48 Calico Ruffled Shirts" while the expedtion members had "30 Priv Linnen Shirts" . Peter Skene Ogden-"Account of Sundries Supplied the Snake Expedition Outfit 1826" in the section on "Country made articles" is "11 Ell wide Indian Shirts Calico". The list for the 1827 Snake river country Expedition contains the same entry. Like the Lewis and Clark information , it seems that calico was such a cheap cloth that it was used as Indian gifts! William Ashley- List of goods to be taken to Smith Jackson and Sublette at the 1827 Rendezvous, includes several references to cloth, " domestic cotton at one dollar and twenty five cents per yard, grey cloth at common quality at five dollars per yard, flannels common quality at one dollar fifty cents per yard, callicoes assorted at one dollar per yard,". Keep in mind that these prices were "mountain prices to SJS, to be paid in Beaver, yet on a comparison basis "callicoes" were the cheapest. Robert Campbell- in his accounts of items taken to the 1832 Pierre's hole Rendezvous, a calico shirt sold for $1.25 each while yellow flannel sold for $2.50 each, and check shirts for 75 cents. Fort Union- This American Fur company post located ate the junction of the Yellowstone and Missouri rivers left us some very detailed records, these include, in 1834, "fancy calico & bright colored shirts-260", other years inventories contain similar numbers of calico shirts. Bents Fort-the 1838 inventory contains "97 3/4 yards Fancy Calico at 22 cents a yard, and "28 yards Fancy Calico at 23 cents per yard". On this same list the "cotton check shirts" were $7 each and the "Fancy calico" were $1.25 each. Nathaniel Weyth and Fort Hall- "Invoice of Goods Remaining at Fort Hall in store uncashed" August 1834. Includes " 41 1/2 yards of check at 12 1/2 cents per yd, 28 yds light calico at 20 cents per yd, 22 yds blue cloth at $2.25 per yd, and 13 3/4 yds white domestic 7 1/2 cents, Also 24 yds scarlet cloth at $1.65 yd. In the years from 1834 to 1837 the Fort Hall ledgers include numerous purchases of calico shirts by the trappers operating out of this post. Calico, Gingham, and cotton shirts all sold for $3 each, while flannel shirts were $4. In 1836 the Tailors shop at the Fort started making shirts, many of them calico, they sold for $3. In the Charles Hanson article on Rendezvous trade goods, he shows that the 1836 Rendezvous received lots of ready made shirts including; 236 flannel shirts, 157 calico shirts, 129 checked, 51 plaid, 12 plain and 7 pink! On that note I'll quit! Clay Landry P.O. Box 1033 Columbus MT 59019 - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 14:35:10 EDT From: JSeminerio <JSeminerio@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: reenacting forum hey colleen my best suggestion is breakdown the listing by 1. geography first, then by type. I'm much more likely to go to a closer event. 2. event listings, by type w/ features 3. (I know this will sound very high schoolish but....) A palnned participants lists. If you plan on going put your name on the list I am more likely to go to an avent with friends 4. Event review section about a month berfore a planned event ask past participants to put up a review. I flew 1600 miles to go to the Mardi Gras rendezvous in Lafette La and would still be going if it wasn't for hurricane andrew If i can be of any help please do not hesitate to contact me ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 23:21:40 -0500 From: "yellow rose/pendleton" <yrrw@cyberramp.net> Subject: MtMan-List: calico Mr. Landry, History is full of contradictions. I am aware of the many shipments of calico shirts to the trading posts. Perhaps the fact that the trade goods were shipped by way of St. Louis from New York and Philadelphia explains the fact that there was that many calico shirts available. The calico that was available on the Texas frontier had to generally come from New Orleans. The documentation I am refering to states: " Once in a great while we are able to obtain a small piece of unbleached domestic, or a bit of calico, at the exobitant price of seventy-cents a yard, from someone passing through the country, but this is seldom.The common dress of the men and children is made of buckskin, and even the women are forced to wear the same." [W.B. Dewees Letters from an early settler of Texas] I do not have a better explaination. It is my understanding that cloth at that time did not come in the widths that it does now. I am told that it generally was only 36" wide. So at that price it was indeed expensive. Your point is well taken and I certainly do not disagree. Pendleton ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 21:07:40 -0700 From: Barry Robbins <rfiddler@earthlink.net> Subject: MtMan-List: FOR SALE: 24' cedarstrip voyageur canoe This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------7B21CE36CFDA98FF7AD7E629 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "FOR SALE, 1 share is available to be part owner in a 24' cedar strip voyageur northern canoe. A share holder will have access to the canoe and participation in waterway activities. Share holders can also get there own crew together and take the canoe on waterways of your choosing. The canoe is outfitted for 8 positions and painted to resemble northern canoes of the 18th and 19th centuries. Price for the share is $200.00. Current share holders are AMM members in Oregon and Washington. For information contact Jeff Smith 253-848-6274. or JeffSmith@FOSSENV.COM - --------------7B21CE36CFDA98FF7AD7E629 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Barry Robbins Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Barry Robbins n: ;Barry Robbins email;internet: rfiddler@earthlink.net x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard - --------------7B21CE36CFDA98FF7AD7E629-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 23:57:27 EDT From: Casapy123 <Casapy123@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coping with a fire ban John Funk; Glad to see you're back on the list. I've been trying to e-mail you and the mail has come back undeliverable each time. Don't give up on me. Write me one more time with your Postal address and I'll write snail-mail until I can get your e-mail address to go through. I keep trying.... Jim Hardee ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 09:03:07 -0600 From: "Scott Singer - \"Spinner\"" <wwwrendezvous@geocities.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coping with a fire ban yep, this happened here in Colorado, 2 or 3 years ago. One rendezvous I went to got permission for a limited number of fires (I think 5), which all camps shared. This wasn't so bad, as there were probably 30 camps. Another one that same summer had no fires - folks just had to deal with it and use a camp stove or do without. Personally, I put a small one-burner backpacking stove down inside my dutch oven (as camouflage) and put pots on the stove. - ------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Singer, aka "Spinner" WWW Rendezvous Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/~wwwrendezvous Territorial Dispatch/National Association of Buckskinners Web Site http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/4833 - --------------------------------------------------------------- - -----Original Message----- From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net> To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com <hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com> Date: Friday, May 08, 1998 9:10 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Coping with a fire ban >All of Alberta is under a total fire ban right now, for the first time in >decades. That means no open fires of any kind, not even charcoal barbecues. >People are only allowed to use propane barbecues or campstoves. Has anyone >had to cope with reenacting under such historically-incorrect conditions? >What did you do? > >Your humble & obedient servant, >Angela Gottfred >agottfre@telusplanet.net > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 19:28:00 -0700 From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: MtMan-List: gourd seeds This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD7B80.944322A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have some canteen gourd seeds for anyone who wants them send me a self addressed envelope and I will stick them in a plastic bag in a damp paper towel and they should be ready to put in a starter pot. If you don't them already germinated let me know and I'll send them dry. Just send the replies to Jon Towns P O Box 143 Manchester WA 98353 I'll enclose about a dozen that should give everyone who wants them enough to grow this summer. They are hard to dry these came from Phoenix AZ - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD7B80.944322A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">I have some canteen gourd seeds for = anyone who wants them send me a self addressed envelope and I will stick = them in a plastic bag in a damp paper towel and they should be ready to = put in a starter pot. If you don't them already germinated let me = know and I'll send them dry. Just send the replies to Jon = Towns P O Box 143 Manchester WA 98353 I'll enclose about a = dozen that should give everyone who wants them enough to grow this = summer. They are hard to dry these came from Phoenix AZ = </body></html> - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD7B80.944322A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 19:49:32 EDT From: SWcushing <SWcushing@aol.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Francis Parkman and "The Oregon Trail" Hello the List, I'm just about finished reading a 1923 edition of Parkman's "The Oregon Trail" that I picked up in an antique store. I mention this because the book was apparently written from a diary about a hunting trip in the spring of 1846....and had little, or nothing to do about the Oregon Trail. For those that have not read the book, Parkman and his companion Shaw, left St. Louis on the 28th of April 1846, ...."on a tour of curiosity and amusement to the Rocky Mountains." He, Parkman, gives an outstanding account of what it was like to travel in the country, hunt buffalo, meet some great "trappers", and live with the Indians. The book has several illustrations by Frederic Remington and I at times, had trouble putting the book down.....good reading for folks like us! I'm headed to Charlotte, NC for a couple weeks of flight training.... anything happen there I should know about? And what should a pilot/mountianman check out while I'm in the neighborhood.....thanks. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 12:43:56 -0700 From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Calico in Fur trade This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD7B48.2183F600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The prices hasn't changed much except the time it take to earn it. Jon T - ---------- : From: Clay Landry <Landry@wtp.net> : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Calico in Fur trade : Date: Saturday, May 09, 1998 7:58 AM : : At 04:57 PM 5/7/98 -0500, you wrote: : Yes calico was available, but it was : >very scarce and very expensive during the fur trade period. : : ------------------------ : : Sorry-but my research indicates that Calico was quite readily available and : quite cheap in the Rocky Mountains when compared to other cloth during the : 1800-1850 period. From Alexander Henry, Lewis & Clark to later years of Fort : Union- just about all of the orignal lists of trade goods and inventories : that I have seen contain references to either calico cloth or shirts. Here : are a few examples; : : Pacific Fur Company-Fort Astoria October 1813: 46 yards of printed calico @ : 26 cents per yard, 12 pieces India calico, per piece of 4 1/2 yards 81 1/2 : cents per yard, cotton check was $1.46 per yard. : : Alexander Henry-1811-List of trade goods includes; 7 1/2 yards fine Calicoe, : 4 1/2 yards linnen, 4 yds checked Cotton cloth. The Calico was valued at "3 : skins" per yard while the cotton check was "4 skins" per yard. His list also : included "4 fine cotton shirts, 8 Common cotton shirts, and 3 calico shirts". : : Lewis and Clark- their list of "Indian Presents" includes "48 Calico Ruffled : Shirts" while the expedtion members had "30 Priv Linnen Shirts" . : : Peter Skene Ogden-"Account of Sundries Supplied the Snake Expedition Outfit : 1826" in the section on "Country made articles" is "11 Ell wide Indian : Shirts Calico". The list for the 1827 Snake river country Expedition : contains the same entry. Like the Lewis and Clark information , it seems : that calico was such a cheap cloth that it was used as Indian gifts! : : William Ashley- List of goods to be taken to Smith Jackson and Sublette at : the 1827 Rendezvous, includes several references to cloth, " domestic cotton : at one dollar and twenty five cents per yard, grey cloth at common quality : at five dollars per yard, flannels common quality at one dollar fifty cents : per yard, callicoes assorted at one dollar per yard,". Keep in mind that : these prices were "mountain prices to SJS, to be paid in Beaver, yet on a : comparison basis "callicoes" were the cheapest. : : Robert Campbell- in his accounts of items taken to the 1832 Pierre's hole : Rendezvous, a calico shirt sold for $1.25 each while yellow flannel sold for : $2.50 each, and check shirts for 75 cents. : : Fort Union- This American Fur company post located ate the junction of the : Yellowstone and Missouri rivers left us some very detailed records, these : include, in 1834, "fancy calico & bright colored shirts-260", other years : inventories contain similar numbers of calico shirts. : : Bents Fort-the 1838 inventory contains "97 3/4 yards Fancy Calico at 22 : cents a yard, and "28 yards Fancy Calico at 23 cents per yard". On this same : list the "cotton check shirts" were $7 each and the "Fancy calico" were : $1.25 each. : : Nathaniel Weyth and Fort Hall- "Invoice of Goods Remaining at Fort Hall in : store uncashed" August 1834. Includes " 41 1/2 yards of check at 12 1/2 : cents per yd, 28 yds light calico at 20 cents per yd, 22 yds blue cloth at : $2.25 per yd, and 13 3/4 yds white domestic 7 1/2 cents, Also 24 yds scarlet : cloth at $1.65 yd. : In the years from 1834 to 1837 the Fort Hall ledgers include numerous : purchases of calico shirts by the trappers operating out of this post. : Calico, Gingham, and cotton shirts all sold for $3 each, while flannel : shirts were $4. In 1836 the Tailors shop at the Fort started making shirts, : many of them calico, they sold for $3. : : In the Charles Hanson article on Rendezvous trade goods, he shows that the : 1836 Rendezvous received lots of ready made shirts including; 236 flannel : shirts, 157 calico shirts, 129 checked, 51 plaid, 12 plain and 7 pink! : : On that note I'll quit! : : Clay Landry : P.O. Box 1033 : Columbus MT 59019 : -------------- : - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD7B48.2183F600 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">The prices hasn't changed much except = the time it take to earn it. Jon T ---------- : From: Clay = Landry <Landry@wtp.net> : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Calico in Fur = trade : Date: Saturday, May 09, 1998 7:58 AM : : At 04:57 PM = 5/7/98 -0500, you wrote: : Yes calico was available, but it was : = >very scarce and very expensive during the fur trade period. : = : ------------------------ : : Sorry-but my research = indicates that Calico was quite readily available and : quite cheap = in the Rocky Mountains when compared to other cloth during the : = 1800-1850 period. From Alexander Henry, Lewis & Clark to later years = of Fort : Union- just about all of the orignal lists of trade goods = and inventories : that I have seen contain references to either = calico cloth or shirts. Here : are a few examples; : : Pacific = Fur Company-Fort Astoria October 1813: 46 yards of printed calico @ : = 26 cents per yard, 12 pieces India calico, per piece of 4 1/2 yards 81 = 1/2 : cents per yard, cotton check was $1.46 per yard. : : = Alexander Henry-1811-List of trade goods includes; 7 1/2 yards fine = Calicoe, : 4 1/2 yards linnen, 4 yds checked Cotton cloth. The = Calico was valued at "3 : skins" per yard while the cotton = check was "4 skins" per yard. His list also : included = "4 fine cotton shirts, 8 Common cotton shirts, and 3 calico = shirts". : : Lewis and Clark- their list of "Indian = Presents" includes "48 Calico Ruffled : Shirts" while = the expedtion members had "30 Priv Linnen Shirts" . : : = Peter Skene Ogden-"Account of Sundries Supplied the Snake = Expedition Outfit : 1826" in the section on "Country made = articles" is "11 Ell wide Indian : Shirts Calico". The = list for the 1827 Snake river country Expedition : contains the same = entry. Like the Lewis and Clark information , it seems : that calico = was such a cheap cloth that it was used as Indian gifts! : : = William Ashley- List of goods to be taken to Smith Jackson and Sublette = at : the 1827 Rendezvous, includes several references to cloth, = " domestic cotton : at one dollar and twenty five cents per = yard, grey cloth at common quality : at five dollars per yard, = flannels common quality at one dollar fifty cents : per yard, = callicoes assorted at one dollar per yard,". Keep in mind that : = these prices were "mountain prices to SJS, to be paid in Beaver, = yet on a : comparison basis "callicoes" were the = cheapest. : : Robert Campbell- in his accounts of items taken to = the 1832 Pierre's hole : Rendezvous, a calico shirt sold for $1.25 = each while yellow flannel sold for : $2.50 each, and check shirts for = 75 cents. : : Fort Union- This American Fur company post located = ate the junction of the : Yellowstone and Missouri rivers left us = some very detailed records, these : include, in 1834, "fancy = calico & bright colored shirts-260", other years : = inventories contain similar numbers of calico shirts. : : Bents = Fort-the 1838 inventory contains "97 3/4 yards Fancy Calico at = 22 : cents a yard, and "28 yards Fancy Calico at 23 cents per = yard". On this same : list the "cotton check shirts" = were $7 each and the "Fancy calico" were : $1.25 each. : = : Nathaniel Weyth and Fort Hall- "Invoice of Goods Remaining at = Fort Hall in : store uncashed" August 1834. Includes " 41 = 1/2 yards of check at 12 1/2 : cents per yd, 28 yds light calico at = 20 cents per yd, 22 yds blue cloth at : $2.25 per yd, and 13 3/4 yds = white domestic 7 1/2 cents, Also 24 yds scarlet : cloth at $1.65 = yd. : In the years from 1834 to 1837 the Fort Hall ledgers include = numerous : purchases of calico shirts by the trappers operating out = of this post. : Calico, Gingham, and cotton shirts all sold for $3 = each, while flannel : shirts were $4. In 1836 the Tailors shop at the = Fort started making shirts, : many of them calico, they sold for $3. = : : In the Charles Hanson article on Rendezvous trade goods, he = shows that the : 1836 Rendezvous received lots of ready made shirts = including; 236 flannel : shirts, 157 calico shirts, 129 checked, 51 = plaid, 12 plain and 7 pink! : : On that note I'll quit! : = : Clay Landry : P.O. Box 1033 : Columbus MT 59019 : = - -------------- : </body></html> - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD7B48.2183F600-- ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #64 ****************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.