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hist_text-digest       Wednesday, April 29 1998       Volume 01 : Number 059




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:39:33 EDT
From: ITWHEELER <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hemp (the nonsmoking kind)

you got to be carfull with new stuff on animals it might gall them bad enough
to loose a season wool works best  have seen canvas on big outfits  dont know
about old times any thing with hair or a dirivative of  that was probably what
they used. nylone i would avoid it dont wick the salts and moisture away.
                                                             iron tounge

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:41:59 EDT
From: ITWHEELER <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hemp Cloth

thanks for the tip
iron tounge

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:58:28 EDT
From: ITWHEELER <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans

blue  i had some of that coffe one time never forget the taste. they have a
watered down version hear in the states. tasts like studd horse piss with the
foam farted offthanks blue                   iron tounge

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:00:58 EDT
From: ITWHEELER <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans

dont bother me any iron tounge thanks blue

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:35:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hemp (the nonsmoking kind)

Iron Tounge

The hemp I was after was fer the sling ropes... the saddle pads are
wool... the sling rope should never touch the animals hide.

Regards

Lee Newbill
Viola, Idaho
email at [e-mail]
Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage
http://www.uidaho.edu/~lnewbill/bp.html


On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, ITWHEELER wrote:

> you got to be carfull with new stuff on animals it might gall them bad enough
> to loose a season wool works best  have seen canvas on big outfits  dont know
> about old times any thing with hair or a dirivative of  that was probably what
> they used. nylone i would avoid it dont wick the salts and moisture away.
>                                                              iron tounge
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:40:01 EDT
From: Johns2rt <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Chat DUBRAY, Mountain Man & Fur Trader

Does anyone have any knowledge of a Mountain Man & Fur Trader named "Chat"
DuBray (also spelled "Du Bray" or DuBreuil)?

The following is all I've been able to find on him:

Encyclopedia of Frontier Biography, 3 Vols., Dan L. Thrapp, Spokane, WA, 1990,
Arthur H. Clark Co.:  "Mountain man (d. c. 1902).  He probably reached the
Rocky Mountains c. 1828 with the American Fur Company.  His activities
centered for some years around Bent's Fort.  He apparently associated with the
Arapahoes for a time, perhaps marrying a woman of that tribe.  He also lived
with Apaches (probably plains Apaches) for years.  He spent his last years on
the Rosebud Reservation, South Dakota, where he died.  [Harvey L. Carter
article, Mountain Men and the Fur Trade of
the Far West, Biographical sketches of the participants, Vol. VI, 10 Vols.,
edited by LeRoy R. Hafen, Arthur H. Clark Co., 1965, 1972]

Thanks in advance for any info.

Nebraska Jack

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:52:33 EDT
From: ITWHEELER <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: gut raps

lee newbill lee thanks for the nudge its been awile sense i ben there. the
never touch the hide . the alwaya ride on the cinch. ive seen some at the end
of the day hanging free if you had the load set right. thanks  iron tounge

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:20:05 EDT
From: Traphand <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Looking for mountain men info in St. Louis for trip

If you are looking for St. Louis Mountain Man Info,  try the Missouri
Historical
Society in St. Louis,  on Skinker Blvd.,  near  Forest Park.    Their hours
are:
Tuesdays-Saturdays    10:00 AM - 5:00 PM.

If you are hitting St. Louis,  you might as well go to the Arch.   They have a
good book store there, and an okay Fur Trade Exhibit.    Also hit the Old
Courthouse,
where you will find part of the wall from the old Missouri Fur Trade Warehouse
(just so-so).

Since you mentioned going down to Ste. Genevieve,  you might as well cross
over to
see Ft. Chartres (a rebuilt French Fort),  located four miles outside of the
town of Prairie Du Roche, Illinois.   Well worth seeing.

Want to contact me for more details, etc., E-M me.

Traphand
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:11:27 -0700
From: Kat Hargus <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Looking for mountain men info in St. Louis for trip

Emma, I am here just outside St. Louis. I suggest the Missouri Historical
Society Library on Skinker Blvd. in St. Louis (right near Forest Park). I
also suggest the bookstore at (under) the Gateway Arch. St. Genevive is
the site of the first permanent French settlement. There is also some of
Old Town St. Charles (the first capitol)  left. Depending on the weekend,
I would suggest a day trip to Ft. de Chartres (about 3 hours away). This
is a F&I period fort. There are also several 'vous within a few hours.
Let me know when you are coming, and I'll see if there is anything
special going on.

Kat Hargus

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:04:14 -0700
From: Kat Hargus <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Man of the Cloth

It's my understanding that hemp was also used as a lower class clothing.
I know that there is a variety known as Manilia hemp -- grown in the
Phillipines. Was this a cash crop any where in Europe? Hemp washes and
softens beautifully, and wears very well. I would be interested in more
info on its historical uses. The hemp plant is the same family as Pot,
but without the THC in it. The two plants look similar, except that one
grows tall and sparse and the other is bushy. You can get permission to
grow hemp, and I am looking into doing this for the experience of retting
and spinning the line fibers.

Kat Hargus

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:37:22 -1000
From: Blue Rider <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting agave

ITWHEELER wrote:
>
> blue  i had some of that coffe one time never forget the taste. they
> have a
> watered down version hear in the states. tasts like studd horse piss
> with the
> foam farted offthanks blue                   iron tounge


  LOL! Boy, aint that the truth.  Pure Kona coffee is wonderful; it's
when they start blending it with other stuff, it goes to hell.  In most
blends, they *brag* about having 10% Kona.  Go figger.

Recently tried some tequila that tasted the same.  If anybody offer you
Pepe Lopez, RUN!!

Blue

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 06:29:45 EDT
From: MIA3WOLVES <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting agave

It was my understanding that this list is a history forum.  I have junior high
school students reading it and would certainly appreciated that the language
be kept socially appropriate for children.

Red Hawk

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 07:59:04 EDT
From: JFLEMYTH <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: FOFF

Hello the list!

I will soon be getting my subscription to Muzzleloader magazine, but I have
been getting them at a gun shop so I get them late.

Scott, I just read your article on Fort Frederick in the March/April edition.
Nice work!  Any one who is interested in the French and Indian war should read
this and see the fort.  I look foreward to doing that in the next couple of
years.  I don't have any plans to go to the East coast, but with so many
things to see, I am going to do some talking to the little lady...

Also, I want to second what some of the people have said on the list.  Please
try to stay true to the purpose of the list.  Logging on to find 20 postings,
maybe two to five of which discuss history or historical reinactment is not
nessesary.

With that in mind, what is a good source for buckskin trousers?  The best
prices I have seen are at Swift Hawk Trading Company.  What do some of you
reccomend?

Thanks for any imput.

John.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 08:39:02 EDT
From: Johns2rt <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: St. Louis Fur Trading

From: EmmaPeel2 <[e-mail]>
>Subject: MtMan-List: Looking for mountain men info in St. Louis for trip

>I am visiting St. Louis in May to research some geneology about mountain men.

What family names are you researching?

>Also does anyone know about a place called Ste. Genevieve?  Supposedly many
>fur trappers and traders lived there at one time or another.

Just south of St. Louis on the Mississippi R., just across the river from
Chester, IL.

If you are interested in the St. Louis fur trade you might try to get a copy
of Mari Sandoz's "The Beaver Men," University of Nebraska Press, Lincoln,
1964,
ISBN 0-8032-5884-4.  She covers nearly all the early St. Louis fur companies
(in addition to the Canadian ones), many of their employees (trappers, etc.),
and has a nice bibliography at the back giving enough sources to last you a
couple of years.  Ask your local library to get it for you on inter-library
loan or buy it yourself ($7.95).

Nebraska Jack



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 08:10:09 -0500
From: Jim Lindberg <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Looking for information on clubs/groups

If you a looking for rendezvous more in the midwest, you might try:

Powder Horn News
P.O. Box 374
Schaller, Iowa  51053-0374

Subscription rate is $15 per yer for the monthly.

I am just a new subscriber after enjoying Smoke and Fire for the last
two years.

Jim

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
  /`-_    Jim Lindberg                 |Les Voyageurs du Val du Chippewa
 { .   }/ 724 East Grand Avenue        |
  \    /  Chippewa Falls, WI 54729 USA |Sweete water and light laughter,
   |___|  http://reality.sgi.com/jal/  |Until we next meete.  Go Gentle.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:25:42 -0500
From: "Scott Allen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: FOFF

John,

Thanks for the kind words about my article.

In answer to your question about Swift Hawk and Pants. Trudy at Swift
Hawk does some excellent work and probably can't be beat on price.


Your most humble servant,
Scott Allen
Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick
Fairplay, MD
http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 08:26:40 -0500
From: Jim Lindberg <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Vermont

I will be spending the next week in Burlington, Vermont.  Any ideas on
some must sees up there?

Jim

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
  /`-_    Jim Lindberg                 |Les Voyageurs du Val du Chippewa
 { .   }/ 724 East Grand Avenue        |
  \    /  Chippewa Falls, WI 54729 USA |Sweete water and light laughter,
   |___|  http://reality.sgi.com/jal/  |Until we next meete.  Go Gentle.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 08:50:03 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: MtMan-List: Swift Hawk

>John,
>
>Thanks for the kind words about my article.
>
>In answer to your question about Swift Hawk and Pants. Trudy at Swift
>Hawk does some excellent work and probably can't be beat on price.
>

What's the address, phone, etc for Swift Hawk?  How do their prices run?
Give me an example.

TIA,
HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
******  Living History . . . Because it's there!  *******

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:58:10 -0500
From: "Scott Allen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Swift Hawk

Henry,

I'm sorry, but I don't have their address here at work. They do
advertise in Muzzleloader and such tho'. I haven't seen Don and Trudy
for a few years, but their prices were always lower than most on
clothing. Trudy makes a very nice blanket shirt that, the last time
I saw them, was under $40. They also have one of the best selection
of  books around. Hope this helps.




Your most humble servant,
Scott Allen
Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick
Fairplay, MD
http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 08:17:34 -0700
From: Marlis Simms <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Swift Hawk

At 08:50 AM 4/29/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>John,
>>
>>Thanks for the kind words about my article.
>>
>>In answer to your question about Swift Hawk and Pants. Trudy at Swift
>>Hawk does some excellent work and probably can't be beat on price.
>>
>
>What's the address, phone, etc for Swift Hawk?  How do their prices run?
>Give me an example.
>
THE ADDRESS FOR SWIFTHAWK IS 59 MOYER DRIVE, ABERDEEN, MD 21001 (410)
272-6023

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:18:17 EDT
From: EmmaPeel2 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: St. Louis Fur Trading

Thanks!!  I am doing research for the St. Vrain family (Bent St. Vrain
company, Bent's Fort, etc) - have many of their original documents. Neat
stuff.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:26:39 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Angela Gottfred)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: (Man of the) Cloth

"P.D. Amschler" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> I have read so much on linen shirts and will admit that it seems to be the
only
> cloth that was in use but what about HEMP.
I don't know about American Mountain Men, but in the pre-1821 Canadian fur
trade, cotton and cotton shirts were quite common. For example, David
Thompson took 2 fathoms (4 yards) of checked cotton and 21 cotton shirts
over the Athabasca Pass with him in 1810-1811 (Belyea, 255-257); an
inventory Thompson took of his trade goods at Rocky Mountain House in 1806
included cotton and a cotton shirt (Dempsey, RMH, 36); Thompson ordered 54
cotton shirts for the 1807 & 1808 outfits of the Columbia Department
(Dempsey, RMH, 40); North West Company wintering partner Charles Chaboillez
gave "Mr. Richards" two cotton shirts when he joined the NWC after leaving
the HBC (Chaboillez, 285);  HBC's Chief Inland, William Tomison, noted that
"Cotton Shirts are much wanted" inland of Hudson's Bay in July 1798
(Johnson, 137n). As early as May 8, 1786, the NWC left behind 1 cotton shirt
(and a bunch of other trade goods) at its Athabasca post (that's Athabasca
Lake, not Athabasca River).
Cotton shirts weren't the only ones used. My notes also include a large
number of flannel shirts, calico shirts, and checked, striped, and gingham
shirts. (As always, if anyone wants the full reference info for the short
citations above, just ask.)

> Now does any one have any information on it's use past line and rope? I know
> that there are a few places to buy hemp today in  the cloth form is it
accepted
> as period in most living history events?  ( Hemp is legal in this country to
> buy and sell as cloth but not grow??? go figuar that one).
Here's a funny one: in all my reading of Canadian fur trade journals, I've
found darn little rope. There was lots of twine (used for making fishing
nets), and codline (for towing canoes) but only one case of
honest-to-goodness rope, "Sandwich Islands rope", which I suspect was sisal.
Packs of furs were tied up with babiche or pack cords made from buffalo
leather. Of course, it's possible that rope usually "went without saying",
but I've read so many letters from fur traders requesting twine or babiche
from other posts that I'm really starting to wonder...
As for hemp, a recent exchange on the historic costume list (h-costume, at
[e-mail]) came to the conclusion that the historic term "linen"
included cloth made from hemp and a variety of other plant fibres. Also,
THC-free hemp growing is in the process of being rapidly legalized here in
Canada, so that may bring down the prices of hemp cloth, except most farmers
here seem more interested in hemp as an oilseed than as a fibre.

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:26:48 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Angela Gottfred)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The sail mfg. industry

[e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford) wrote:
>  Further, is there any
> evidence that used sails were "recycled" into tarps for use as tents or
> shelters on the frontier after their usefulness as sails had been outlived?

In Canada, all birchbark canoes and York boats were equipped with sails &
masts to use in favorable conditions (beats the heck out of paddling or
rowing!). I've long felt that these sails would have been used as shelters
at night. Oilcloths protected the trade goods in the canoes, and were quite
likely also used for that after the canoes were unloaded at the end of the
day, which leaves the sails available to serve as shelters.

Although Frances Ann Hopkins' paintings all date from 1856 at the earliest,
the "Voyageurs at Dawn" painting suggests one possible use of a canoe sail
as a shelter : a sail or oilcloth is draped over the bow or stern end of an
overturned canoe, and a voyageur sleeps beneath the canoe/sail combination.
(Picture an 'L' shape, where the canoe is the tall part of the L, and the
sail is the foot of the L. To see the painting, check out Peter C. Newman's
_Illustrated History of the HBC_, aka _Empire of the Bay_, p. 114-115.)

I just riffled through my notes, & found this: "By 'encamped', the reader
must not understand that they [Benjamin Frobisher & his companions] had any
tent, or even the advantage of a tarpawling or sail to serve as a
substitute..." (Masson 2:215; from Samuel Wilcocke's 1819 newspaper account
of the escape of North West Company wintering partner Frobisher from the HBC
at York Factory). This suggests that in other circumstances, sails would
serve as shelters--but not conclusive.

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:51:32 -0500
From: Jim Lindberg <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: (Man of the) Cloth

How close would todays "bailer" twine be to the twine used by the early
fur traders?

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:01:01 -0500
From: "Ken YellowFeather" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: (Man of the) Cloth

Thanks, this is really good information! Do you have any thing like this on
the goods taken to the rendezvous in the American west? Or any data on
cotton goods sold at the various western trading posts? Esp. with
descriptions as good as the ones you just posted?
YellowFeather

- ----------
> From: Angela Gottfred <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: (Man of the) Cloth
> Date: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 10:26 AM
>
> "P.D. Amschler" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> > I have read so much on linen shirts and will admit that it seems to be
the
> only
> > cloth that was in use but what about HEMP.
> I don't know about American Mountain Men, but in the pre-1821 Canadian
fur
> trade, cotton and cotton shirts were quite common. For example, David
> Thompson took 2 fathoms (4 yards) of checked cotton and 21 cotton shirts
> over the Athabasca Pass with him in 1810-1811 (Belyea, 255-257); an
> inventory Thompson took of his trade goods at Rocky Mountain House in
1806
> included cotton and a cotton shirt (Dempsey, RMH, 36); Thompson ordered
54
> cotton shirts for the 1807 & 1808 outfits of the Columbia Department
> (Dempsey, RMH, 40); North West Company wintering partner Charles
Chaboillez
> gave "Mr. Richards" two cotton shirts when he joined the NWC after
leaving
> the HBC (Chaboillez, 285);  HBC's Chief Inland, William Tomison, noted
that
> "Cotton Shirts are much wanted" inland of Hudson's Bay in July 1798
> (Johnson, 137n). As early as May 8, 1786, the NWC left behind 1 cotton
shirt
> (and a bunch of other trade goods) at its Athabasca post (that's
Athabasca
> Lake, not Athabasca River).
> Cotton shirts weren't the only ones used. My notes also include a large
> number of flannel shirts, calico shirts, and checked, striped, and
gingham
> shirts. (As always, if anyone wants the full reference info for the short

> citations above, just ask.)
>
> > Now does any one have any information on it's use past line and rope? I
know
> > that there are a few places to buy hemp today in  the cloth form is it
> accepted
> > as period in most living history events?  ( Hemp is legal in this
country to
> > buy and sell as cloth but not grow??? go figuar that one).
> Here's a funny one: in all my reading of Canadian fur trade journals,
I've
> found darn little rope. There was lots of twine (used for making fishing
> nets), and codline (for towing canoes) but only one case of
> honest-to-goodness rope, "Sandwich Islands rope", which I suspect was
sisal.
> Packs of furs were tied up with babiche or pack cords made from buffalo
> leather. Of course, it's possible that rope usually "went without
saying",
> but I've read so many letters from fur traders requesting twine or
babiche
> from other posts that I'm really starting to wonder...
> As for hemp, a recent exchange on the historic costume list (h-costume,
at
> [e-mail]) came to the conclusion that the historic term
"linen"
> included cloth made from hemp and a variety of other plant fibres. Also,
> THC-free hemp growing is in the process of being rapidly legalized here
in
> Canada, so that may bring down the prices of hemp cloth, except most
farmers
> here seem more interested in hemp as an oilseed than as a fibre.
>
> Your humble & obedient servant,
> Angela Gottfred
> [e-mail]
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:10:26 -1000
From: Blue Rider <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: (Man of the) Cloth

.
> Here's a funny one: in all my reading of Canadian fur trade journals,
> I've
> found darn little rope. There was lots of twine (used for making
> fishing
> nets), and codline (for towing canoes) but only one case of
> honest-to-goodness rope, "Sandwich Islands rope", which I suspect was
> sisal.

>Angela,

As far as I know, sisal didn't  (and doesn't) grow here in the Sandwich
Islands.  I have a a strong feeling this rope would have been made of
sennet, the cordage made of the fibers of the inner husk of the coconut
fruit.  The Hawaiians used sennet for string, twine, and all sorts of
cordage.  It's very tough, stands up well to moisture, and fairly well
to sea water.  In the drier inland uses, it would probably last just
about as long and longer than any fiber used at the time.

Aloha
Blue
>.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:28:35 -0700
From: "Joyce Surman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: information for doc

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Doc

if you are interested in information about Courier de Bois at Fort de =
=3D

Chartres in Prairie du Rocher, Il. Let me know I can get club by laws. =
=3D

Date of formation ect or, you can contact Fort de Chartres. The site =3D

director, Darrel would be able to help you out also. We protray 1750's =
=3D

time period. French and Indian War and all that, doncha know. The =3D

rendezvous allow early 1700 to about 1820 or 30.

Joyce

[e-mail]


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<P>Doc</P>
<P>if you are interested in information about Courier de Bois at Fort de =
=3D</P>
<P>Chartres in Prairie du Rocher, Il. Let me know I can get club by =
laws. =3D</P>
<P>Date of formation ect or, you can contact Fort de Chartres. The site =
=3D</P>
<P>director, Darrel would be able to help you out also. We protray =
1750's =3D</P>
<P>time period. French and Indian War and all that, doncha know. The =
=3D</P>
<P>rendezvous allow early 1700 to about 1820 or 30.</P>
<P>Joyce</P>
<P>[e-mail]</P></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:29:56 -0700
From: "Joyce Surman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: St Genevieve

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Tetontod (Todd)

yes, I am familiar with St. Genevieve, I live not too far from there, =
=3D

There is a great book called Colonial St. Genevieve by (I believe the =
=3D

name is) Eckart. Lots of good history in the area. St. Gen has some =3D

original homes. Prairie du Rocher is also close, and Fort de Chartres =
=3D

is right there. It has been restored. Pierre Menard's home is also =3D

close by in Ellis Grove Il. Menard was involved in the fur trade. His =
=3D

home has been restored also. Fort de Chartres has a great rendezvous the =
=3D

first week-end in June with lots of re-enactors, traders, etc. June 6-7 =
=3D

this year. They portray approximately 1750-1820 at the rendezvous. The =
=3D

fort is early to mid 1700. I know the Fur traders in St. Louis were on =
=3D

the water front, but don't honestly know if any of the buildings are =3D

still there, but there is a shop that sells rendezvous stuff somewhere =
=3D

there that I'm told was in a building from that era. ( Sloppy sentence =
=3D

sorry) The Menard home is circa 1830 or so. Lots of good history here. =
=3D

French Colonial. I could probably answer more questions or tell you =3D

where to get answers or at least head you in the right direction if need =
=3D

be. Probably best to e-mail off list as I don't always get to read the =
=3D

list right away

Joyce

[e-mail].=20




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Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>
<P>Tetontod (Todd)</P>
<P>yes, I am familiar with St. Genevieve, I live not too far from there, =
=3D</P>
<P>There is a great book called Colonial St. Genevieve by (I believe the =
=3D</P>
<P>name is) Eckart. Lots of good history in the area. St. Gen has some =
=3D</P>
<P>original homes. Prairie du Rocher is also close, and Fort de Chartres =
=3D</P>
<P>is right there. It has been restored. Pierre Menard's home is also =
=3D</P>
<P>close by in Ellis Grove Il. Menard was involved in the fur trade. His =
=3D</P>
<P>home has been restored also. Fort de Chartres has a great rendezvous =
the=20
=3D</P>
<P>first week-end in June with lots of re-enactors, traders, etc. June =
6-7 =3D</P>
<P>this year. They portray approximately 1750-1820 at the rendezvous. =
The =3D</P>
<P>fort is early to mid 1700. I know the Fur traders in St. Louis were =
on =3D</P>
<P>the water front, but don't honestly know if any of the buildings are =
=3D</P>
<P>still there, but there is a shop that sells rendezvous stuff =
somewhere =3D</P>
<P>there that I'm told was in a building from that era. ( Sloppy =
sentence =3D</P>
<P>sorry) The Menard home is circa 1830 or so. Lots of good history =
here. =3D</P>
<P>French Colonial. I could probably answer more questions or tell you =
=3D</P>
<P>where to get answers or at least head you in the right direction if =
need=20
=3D</P>
<P>be. Probably best to e-mail off list as I don't always get to read =
the =3D</P>
<P>list right away</P>
<P>Joyce</P>
<P><A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>. </P>
<P> </P></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:16:49 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: FOFF

Dear John
You requested info on Buckskin pants. May I put my two bits worth in?
I have been in to skinnin for close to 30 years and have formed some strong
opinions on certain things and the right leather to use for authentic
clothing is one thing I feel pretty strong on. I try my best to stear
newcomers away from spending there hard earned money on that yellow
comercialy taned leather for any use.

Besides not looking right, it is cold in the winter and clammy in the
summer. I think you would be better served and money ahead to use Brain Tan
leather for pants,britches, or leg'ens or make your pants of wool, cotton,
or linen/flax cloth. All of which are correct for the Period. Any Period.

Check the manufacturer of dustom or ready made leather pants as to the type
of leather they use and if they don't say Brain Tan it isn't  Brain Tan.
Far-be-it for me to suggest that no other leather existed during the 1800th
and 1900th centurys because that is not the case. just not any thing like
our modern "buck skin".

Anyway that is my opinion for what it's worth and if others would care to
take me to task on this thats fine as I surly will not be offended.

Your most obedient servent "Capt." Lahti
- -----Original Message-----
From: JFLEMYTH <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 5:05 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: FOFF


>>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:30:15 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: FOFF

To all from Capt. Lahti
Just a quik one to appologize for the miss-spelled words etc. I'm trying!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: FOFF


>Dear John
>You requested info on Buckskin pants. May I put my two bits worth in?
>I have been in to skinnin for close to 30 years and have formed some strong
>opinions on certain things and the right leather to use for authentic
>clothing is one thing I feel pretty strong on. I try my best to stear
>newcomers away from spending there hard earned money on that yellow
>comercialy taned leather for any use.
>
>Besides not looking right, it is cold in the winter and clammy in the
>summer. I think you would be better served and money ahead to use Brain Tan
>leather for pants,britches, or leg'ens or make your pants of wool, cotton,
>or linen/flax cloth. All of which are correct for the Period. Any Period.
>
>Check the manufacturer of dustom or ready made leather pants as to the type
>of leather they use and if they don't say Brain Tan it isn't  Brain Tan.
>Far-be-it for me to suggest that no other leather existed during the 1800th
>and 1900th centurys because that is not the case. just not any thing like
>our modern "buck skin".
>
>Anyway that is my opinion for what it's worth and if others would care to
>take me to task on this thats fine as I surly will not be offended.
>
>Your most obedient servent "Capt." Lahti
>-----Original Message-----
>From: JFLEMYTH <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>Date: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 5:05 AM
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: FOFF
>
>
>>>
>
>

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #59
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