On Tuesday, April 28, 1998 at 12:21 you wrote : " When personel freedom
is being abused you have to move to limit it" .....................What in
the heck are you all talking about? And why did you include that
anti-American crap from the head slime ball for. Limit my freedom? Did I
hear the mumblings of a commie in here or what. I take extreme offense when
someone puts garbage like that out. My God in heaven, I will bet old Liver
eating Johnston is rolling in his grave in Trailtown. The next time you all
feel that way why don't you take someone elses place on the front line. Say
in Bosnia! I would have been happy for you to have taken my place in Nam,
you could have all my Purple Hearts with my blessing and maybe then you
would love ALL your freedom!
YellowFeather
- ----------
> From: Fred A. Miller <fmiller@lightlink.com>
> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans
> Date: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 12:21 AM
>
> Michael Branson wrote:
> >
> > I agree, I get tired of trying to translate this new 20century mtn man
> > lingo. The old diaries I have studied show the old timers never
actually
> > spoke in such a manner. M. Branson
>
> [snip]
>
> That's the conclusion I came to as well sometime ago Mike, but thougtht
> maybe I'd missed something.
>
> Regards,
>
> Fred
>
> --
> "When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical
> Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of
> individual freedom to Americans...And so a lot of people say there's
> too much personal freedom. When personal freedom's being abused, you
> have to move to limit it." Bill Clinton, April 19,1994
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:56:53 -1000
From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans
Casapy123 wrote:
>
> Blue Rider
>
> I suppose I'll get along if you and others want to talk like you think
> a
> mountain man might have talked. However, I agree with the thought
> that
> mountain men who left us their written words wrote in pretty good
> english.
> That doesn't mean they necessarily talked all that proper, but if
> we're to
> emulate them, shouldn't we also write correctly even if we talk in the
> vernacular?
>
> Your use of Vardis Fisher's "Mountain Man" doesn't support your case
> as it is
> fiction, even if there is some degree of factual basis. Provide us
> with some
> better, solid references (and there are a couple but I want you to
> find them)
> and we'll all have no option but to accept your writing without
> quibble. This
> IS a history list, contrary to what you might want to believe. Back
> up what
> you say with a proper reference and you can say most anything in most
> any
> manner you want.
>
> Good luck in searching for those references. If you give up, there
> will be
> others here to help you. That is what this list is all about.
I didn't mean "Mt.Man" to be a citation, just a passing thought.
Actually, it looks like to me it'd be easier all around if I just
spoke correct English and brought Miss Manners to visit from time to
time. But then, I doubt she would approve of me, either.
Sigh! What's a poor girl to do?
I do apologize to anybody I upset. It was unintentional.
Blue
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:01:38 -1000
From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans
ITWHEELER wrote:
>
> just fooling around to see if you guys were gettin my mail dont get
> many
> replys.
> i have got alot of information from youall. but it seems that you doun
> care to
> anser mine. dont know any thing about roasting beens that why they
> have coffey
> stores starbucks
> thanks for
> ansering my
> mail
> iron
> tounge
Aw, shoot, man! Here I thought you had such a great idea and you mess
it all up by telling the truth? We don't have Starbuck's on this island,
but we do have Kona and all that World's Best Coffee. It *is* wonderful
coffee. It is also $20/lb. Some days you just can't win.
Aloha,
Blue
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:03:09 -1000
From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans
ITWHEELER wrote:
>
> just foolin , i wouldnt try it on a bet just by mine . might try some
> day have
> trouble want ing everything taler made did they realy roste the
> beens at
> voos or did they have it already ground . seems green beans would get
> moldy.
> iron tounge
It's my understanding that they mostly carried and drank black tea.
Blue
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 06:47:56 -0500
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <rat@htcomp.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans
Regarding the Clinton quote.....WTF,O? I am not familiar with that
particular quote, but it certainly sounds Clintonesque. God save us from
this man and his minions. I think some of us would appreciate knowing why
you interjected it into a discussion about vernacular. It is not clear if
your tongue was firmly in you cheek, as at least I hope it was.
Lanney Ratclif
- -----Original Message-----
From: Fred A. Miller <fmiller@lightlink.com>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 12:37 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans
>Michael Branson wrote:
>>
>> I agree, I get tired of trying to translate this new 20century mtn man
>> lingo. The old diaries I have studied show the old timers never actually
>> spoke in such a manner. M. Branson
>
>[snip]
>
>That's the conclusion I came to as well sometime ago Mike, but thougtht
>maybe I'd missed something.
>
>Regards,
>
>Fred
>
>--
>"When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical
>Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of
>individual freedom to Americans...And so a lot of people say there's
>too much personal freedom. When personal freedom's being abused, you
>have to move to limit it." Bill Clinton, April 19,1994
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:48:39 -0400
From: "F.Vital" <fvital@leo.infi.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans
Pamela Wheeler wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, April 28, 1998 at 12:21 you wrote : " When personel freedom
> is being abused you have to move to limit it" .....................What in
> the heck are you all talking about? And why did you include that
> anti-American crap from the head slime ball for.
Maybe it is there to educate/warn people about how the head beaureucrat
really feels.
- --
Frank Vital
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:06:14 -0500
From: Jim Lindberg <jal@cray.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans
I can't believe all of this stuff still coming under the coffee heading,
how about changing the subject line?
Maybe it's time for some decaf! B^)
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:01:33 -0700
From: "P.D. Amschler" <buckskinner@mailcity.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Man of the Cloth
Well I have just read every one of the 49 new posts on this list and I have to admit that I was amused! So now I have a few MORE questions to get a few more ideas.
I have read so much on linen shirts and will admit that it seems to be the only cloth that was in use but what about HEMP. Hemp up in till the early 20th century was a main stay. Even during WW2 we were using hemp rope and lines. Even as a young country it was part of most ststes law that you had to grow some hemp for the betterment of the country and the war effort.
Hemp was user on all of our sailing ships not only as rope and lines but it was also used in clothing. It also was called linen in some old sailing books. Now I will also admit that I have not researched this fully but I do think that hemp would have made it's way into the Rocky Mountains in the 1800's as cloth as well as rope.
Now does any one have any information on it's use past line and rope? I know that there are a few places to buy hemp today in the cloth form is it accepted as period in most living history events? ( Hemp is legal in this country to buy and sell as cloth but not grow??? go figuar that one).
Paul
Get your FREE, private e-mail
account at http://www.mailcity.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:54:38 EDT
From: RR1LA <RR1LA@aol.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: the head slimeball (was roasting coffee beans)
Amen YellowFeather. Only thing I can say is thank goodness Clinton makes
statements like that, so we can truly see how dangerous, and exactly how big a
slimeball he is.
Also, to everyone on the list, PLEASE be aware of your subject headings, as
this stuff is archived by subject. All the previous stuff about english, etc
etc had nothing to do with roasting coffee beans. YHS PJ.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:19:11 -0500
From: "Scott Allen" <allen@blueridge-ef.SAIC.COM>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Man of the Cloth
Paul,
Please judicious use of the return key. It is very hard to read when
you have to keep moving back and forth.
Check out a company called Ohio Hempery. They have a website, but I
forget the url. You should be able to find it using a search engine.
I have one of their catalogs at home and they give a little history
on hemp cloth and rope. It is very acceptable for the fur trade era.
Your most humble servant,
Scott Allen
Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick
Fairplay, MD
http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 98 08:27:00 -0500
From: bruce.mcneal@ssa.gov
Subject: RE: MtMan-List:Ft Fredrick
Hey Scott,
Any final figures on attendance at Market Fair? # of camps, # of sutlers?
Everyone I spoke to had nothing but praise. Great job as usual.
- - Bruce McNeal
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:41:17 EDT
From: TetonTod <TetonTod@aol.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hemp Cloth
Paul,
You're correct in that hemp was widely available and used for a variety of
applications. My research into period textiles has indicated that hemp cloth
was used on a limited basis for clothing, but no where near as much as linen.
Mostly for rough outer wear by farmers and outher country folk. So, wouldn't
it stand to reason then that Woodsmen, Frontiersmen, mountain men etc would
have used it? You decide.
My Knapsack is made from some nice moderate weight hemp canvas and I am very
pleased with it. I've also made some nice rope with hemp and jute. Sisal rope
it appears was not period, but hemp certainly was.
Todd Glover
A wide variety of hemp materials are available from www. hemptraders.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:42:49 EDT
From: EmmaPeel2 <EmmaPeel2@aol.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Looking for mountain men info in St. Louis for trip
I am visiting St. Louis in May to research some geneology about mountain men.
Does anyone know if there is a specific museum devoted to the mountain men in
Missourri? Or sites that I should definately see? I heard that the old fur
warehouses were once on the river docks, but they may have been torn down.
Also does anyone know about a place called Ste. Genevieve? Supposedly many
fur trappers and traders lived there at one time or another. Any information
appreciated! Thanks :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:46:59 EDT
From: TetonTod <TetonTod@aol.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Hemp
also check out www.hemptex.com
Todd
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:47:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu>
Subject: MtMan-List: Hemp (the nonsmoking kind)
On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, P.D. Amschler wrote:
> Hemp was user on all of our sailing ships not only as rope and lines but
> it was also used in clothing. It also was called linen in some old
> sailing books. Now I will also admit that I have not researched this
> fully but I do think that hemp would have made it's way into the Rocky
> Mountains in the 1800's as cloth as well as rope.
Can't answer yer question Paul, but I can add one :)
Would hemp have been the sling rope of choice for securing mantees on a
pack saddle (horse)? My nylon sling ropes ain't gonna work fer what I
wish to do :)
I have read that the Lewis and Clark expedition used braided elk hides for
their sling ropes, seen nothing about the methods of HBC or the NWC.
Would rope, in quantity, have been brought overland as replacement stock?
Or would it be braided from readily available materials? I can only find
one source that lists rope as being shipped, and that appears to be only
for the use of the transporters (York Boat Bill of Lading, 1803)
Scott Alan did write:
> Paul,
> Please judicious use of the return key. It is very hard to read when
> you have to keep moving back and forth.
Check the settings on your mail program Paul... your paragraphs arn't
wrapping to make it easy to read... at least for some readers.
Regards
Lee Newbill
Viola, Idaho
email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu
Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage
http://www.uidaho.edu/~lnewbill/bp.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:47:55 -0500
From: "Scott Allen" <allen@blueridge-ef.SAIC.COM>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List:Ft Fredrick
Nothing yet, Bruce. I'll give them a few days to get their collective
wind back! Thanks for the kind words. It was good to see you again.
I'm thinking real serious about joining the ALRA.
Your most humble servant,
Scott Allen
Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick
Fairplay, MD
http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:25:11 -0600 (CST)
From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: MtMan-List: The sail mfg. industry
Is it probable that sail manufacturers on the east coast (or anywhere for
that matter) also made tents in large quantities? Further, is there any
evidence that used sails were "recycled" into tarps for use as tents or
shelters on the frontier after their usefulness as sails had been outlived?
I have an old sail, complete with heavy 1.5" dia ropes sewn into two
opposite edges. I often use it as a shelter, but when someone asks at an
event, I'd like to talk about the use of old sails as shelters, but I
hesitate to do so without some kind of reference or documentation. Of
course, I could always say that I (my character) got it somewhere on the
coast where shipes were being refitted. Any help out there?
TIA
HBC
*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford Curator of History
mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442 Box 43191
FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191
WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
****** Living History . . . Because it's there! *******
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:33:18 -0600
From: "Lee Cardon" <lcardon@insurquote.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hemp Cloth
In the "Joy of Handweaving" the author Osma G. Tod suggests that Hemp was
brought from Europe at least a hundred years before the "Mountain Man" era,
and that growers of Hemp were very excited because the land was so fertile
here that it grew twice as tall as where it was grown in Europe. Since it
is such a tough fiber, it was used for many "industrial" (used in the
cottage sense) applications. It made good bags, sails, ropes, twines (shoe
laces) and occasionally some rough work clothing.
BTW: It was also used to extract drugs from...I'm sure we all know of one
such drug, does anyone know what other useful medications come from the
Hemp plant?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:48:02 -0600
From: "Lee Cardon" <lcardon@insurquote.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The sail mfg. industry
On the lighter side of Sail usage, didn't Swiss Family Robinson, and
Robinson Crusoe have something to do with that?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:59:59 EDT
From: MIA3WOLVES <MIA3WOLVES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans
amen
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:09:03 -0400
From: "Fred A. Miller" <fmiller@lightlink.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans
Pamela Wheeler wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, April 28, 1998 at 12:21 you wrote : " When personel freedom
> is being abused you have to move to limit it" .....................What in
> the heck are you all talking about? And why did you include that
> anti-American crap from the head slime ball for. Limit my freedom? Did I
> hear the mumblings of a commie in here or what. I take extreme offense when
> someone puts garbage like that out. My God in heaven, I will bet old Liver
> eating Johnston is rolling in his grave in Trailtown. The next time you all
> feel that way why don't you take someone elses place on the front line. Say
> in Bosnia! I would have been happy for you to have taken my place in Nam,
> you could have all my Purple Hearts with my blessing and maybe then you
> would love ALL your freedom!
Pam, most people can tell it's a quote from the "Scum Bag" himself, and
certainly not a promotion of his comment, but rather an alert to others
as to what he really thinks.
Fred
- --
"When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical
Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of
individual freedom to Americans...And so a lot of people say there's
too much personal freedom. When personal freedom's being abused, you
have to move to limit it." Bill Clinton, April 19,1994
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:19:14 -0500
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <rat@htcomp.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Looking for information on clubs/groups
Matt
Contact Don Kitlinger at woodenhawk@aol.com and ask for a copy of his
publication "The Rendezvous Calendar". It is mailed to subscribers from
September to May and each issue includes a calender showing most of the club
rendezvous in the Texas area for the upcoming month. (June July and August
aren't included because nobody rendezvous in 100+ degree heat---we head
north for the cool country rendezvous). In the back of each issue is a list
of most of the Buckskinner clubs in this area, including a contact person,
their address and phone number. If you contacted all the clubs listed with
a suitable questionaire you might have a beginning on your research.
Don might be able to direct you to other publications around the country
with similar information.
Good Luck
Lanney Ratcliff
rat@htcomp.net
- -----Original Message-----
From: S.M.Despain-1 <sdespain@ou.edu>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Friday, April 24, 1998 12:20 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Looking for information on clubs/groups
>My name is Matt Despain and for vernacular sakes go by "Doc Wannabe"
>because I'm working om my dissertation. I'm examining the image of the
>mountain man in American history and culture, and part of that includes
>modern day buckskinning. What I'm interested in is the histories and
>constitutions/charters of groups to see when they were organized and
>what influences led to their formation. I am also interested in the
>formality (or lack of it) that certain groups prescribe to in their
>activities (how one must dress, speak, or carry themselves in a social
>rank). I am mostly interested in groups that participate in recreating
>the Far West fur trade and the Rocky Mountain rendezvous (circa
>1800-1840), but any information from groups that portray other facets of
>the fur trade or frontiering are equally welcome. I would be most
>appreciative of any information anyone could send my way.
>
>Matt "Doc Wannabe" Despain
>1339 Homeland Ave.
>Norman, OK 73072
>(405) 447-4046
>sdespain@ou.edu
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:28:51 EDT
From: RR1LA <RR1LA@aol.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Looking for information on clubs/groups
Dear "Doc", A couple of good sources for rendezvous events, and their contact
people would be the Smoke & Fire News, at POB 166, Grand Rapids, OH 43522
phone 419.832.0303. Also, there is a publication out of Denver called "The
Territorial Dispatch" which provides additional stuff across the country. I
was thinking the Booshways and Directors of Club events might be a good lead.
