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hist_text-digest       Wednesday, April 15 1998       Volume 01 : Number 052




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:13:58 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pine tar

From: Capt. Lahti; Wilson Price Hunt Party/ Hairy Lizards
Subject: RE: MTMAN-List: pine tar
Date: Monday, April 13, 1998 11:06 AM

I got some Pine Tar from England Marine Supply in Astoria OR. last summer
to use on the rigging of my 19' battaeu., but I'm sure it is available at
the other sources mentioned in previous notes. If you want the phone number
or address of England Marine feel free to get back to me.



- ----------
> From: CT OAKES <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pine tar
> Date: Monday, April 13, 1998 5:55 AM
>
> In a message dated 98-04-09 22:40:25 EDT, you write:
>
> << >>What exactly is pine tar, and also where can you get it??!
>  >>I can't seem to find anyone with any info on it.
>  >>
>  >>Matt Mitchell
>  >>Palouse Hills Muzzleloaders
>  >>Moscow, Idaho >>
>
> Check any farm feed store, Pine Tar is available in small tins.  It is a
> common first aid for chickens that are getting pecked by other chickens.
It
> is also available at places that sell trees and shrubs as it is good for
> sealing off a branch after pruning.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:50:54 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Angela Gottfred)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Women's hoods

"David Tippets" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Let me make sure I've gotten your meaning correctly by restating what I
>believe you said in in my own words.

>My words: Indian women decorated efigy hoods profusely so that the hoods
>didn't look so goofy.  Is that your meaning?
Well, I'm not sure it was an entirely serious hypothesis!  I have an
undecorated hood and it looks very ugly to me. I won't be wearing it in
public until I've got some decoration on it, so it doesn't look quite so
goofy.  However, the perspective of fur trade-era Native women may have been
quite different. Just to keep things straight, these aren't 'effigy hoods'
(the ones with the ears) but are rectangular hoods.

>Second question; how far may we extend this logic to other things women
>decorated profusely?
I don't know! It is something to keep in mind though.

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:51:08 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Angela Gottfred)
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: 5" brim Hats, and Why I Hate Sketchbooks.

Dave "Manywounds" Parks <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Hi Ron,    Yes, the 5" brim would run all the way around the crown, if
>it was just in the front.....it would look like a baseball cap.

Baseball-style caps did exist in the fur trade. They were (and are) called
'jockey caps'. David Thompson took 6 jockey caps over the Athabasca Pass in
1810-1811 (Belyea, 255-257). In 1820, the HBC's George Simpson ordered over
50 jockey caps for the Athabasca outfit of 1821-1822. In the _Voyageur's
Sketchbook_, there is a sketch on around page 4 of a jockey cap decorated by
marabou feathers. The original of this sketch is attributed to "Meyer".

- --Rant alert!--
I HATE SKETCHBOOKS! They drive me N-U-T-S! I don't know of any artist called
"Meyer" who drew or painted voyageurs, and there is no other indication in
the sketchbook of the name of the painting, the full name of the artist, or
where this particular painting or drawing might be found. The same goes for
almost everything else in this sketchbook, and this is typical of
sketchbooks aimed at reenactors--lots of pretty pictures and very definite
statements, but very rarely is there anything to back up the claims or
explain where to find the original source. Yet the information often comes
from people who are, presumably, knowledgeable in the subject area... It
makes me want to take the author/artist and shake them...
- --End of rant.--

 I'd love to know more about jockey caps.

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 13:15:11 -0700
From: "Sommer J. Smouse" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: South Eastern Rendezvous

Linda Holley wrote:
> I just
> left the "Mouse House" and they are having toooooo good of a time.

What is the "Mouse House"?  Sounds like a term my family uses for my
folks place.

Forrest Smouse

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:33:49 -0400
From: Linda Holley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: South Eastern Rendezvous

The "mouse House" is one of our subscribers wife's tent.  It is the sign
they hang out side to let us know who they are.

Linda Holley

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:46:27 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: powder horn repair(is there any worm holes )

sent you a message offline on plugging and carving horns.  now i dont
know if i did the right thing or not.  is your question i have some
original powder horns and they need repairing or i have some old horns
and want to make powder horns out of them.. I can give you input on
repairing old horns if that is the question.   One thing that i need to
know are there any worm holes in the horns.  a lot of very old horns have
worm holes for some reason.   cracks in old horns indicate that they are
drying out and need some moisture (IE oil or the like.)

      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]

On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 21:59:12 EDT Traphand <[e-mail]> writes:
>got three very old horns at a sell last weekend. the horns are flaking
>and
>starting to creak.what has anyone tried that worked.thanks
>
>                                          traphand
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:24:57 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dances With Wolves

>For what it's worth (absolutely nothing), I agree.  Just the buffalo
>hunt is worth the price of admission.  But in at least one instance, I
>don't know why they thought they had to compromise authenticity for a
>"better" story line.  For example, the boy who was injured while trying
>to steal Dances With Wolves horse, said he was afraid that his father
>would beat him when he found out.  From what I have read, this is not
>the way the Lakota treated their offspring, particularly boys.

We must remember that in dealing with cultures, we are really talking about
individuals, who may or may not have followed cultural custom to the
letter.  The boy may very well have reason to fear his "father's bow across
his back."  Some confusion about the Indian side of the film could come
from the fact that the screen writer chose to deviate from the book and
depict the Lakota, instead of the Comanche.  In the book, the tribe is
Comanche.  Kicking Bird was a Kiowa and Ten Bears was Comanche, and the
setting was somewhere on the southern plains.  Fort Segwick (Julesburg,
Co.) in the movie was actually a post in SW Kansas or the Indian Territory
in the book, but I can't remember its name.  The language in the film is
Lakota, but the situations are pretty much Southern Plains.  For instance,
Ten Bears talks about the Spanish coming, and shows Dunbar the helmet of a
Conquistador.  Sorry folks, but the Spanish didn't get far into Sioux
territory.  It's more likely that it's a souvenir found on the plains of
Texas, SW Kansas or Oklahoma.

The buffalo hunt scene was well done EXCEPT Dunbar's weapon of choice.  Why
in the heck he used a Henry when he had all those Sharps carbines on hand
is beyond me.  He should have kept a few out and buried the rest.  It's
hard enough to hit a buff in his tender spot behind the ear or into its
heart on a dead run, but to do so with a small caliber (.44 Henry is small
to a buffalo) rifle is near impossible.  A .52 Sharps might have been a
better choice.  Oh, well.

The Director's Cut answers a lot of questions and explains much more than
the released version does.  It is still a great film, which, since its
release in 1990, has inspired a whole new crop of historical dramas.

Cheers,
HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
******  Living History . . . Because it's there!  *******

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:30:49 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: MtMan-List: Memorial Day weekend events

Guess what.  The wife and kids are taking off during Mem. Day weekend to
visit her parents, which leaves me all that time to play.  I know someone
out there has the whats and wheres of rendezvous and reenactments going on
that weekend that I could choose from.  It's a once in a lifetime
opportunity, and I don't want to blow it.  WAUGH!!!

Any Suggestions/Invitations?  Does Ft. Larned still do an event?

Let me know.

Cheers,
HBC, aka Hears-The-Quiet

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
******  Living History . . . Because it's there!  *******

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:31:55 EDT
From: EmmaPeel2 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Memorial Day weekend events

Anything going on it the Southwest?  Like..New Mexico or Colorado?  Went to an
event last week, was supposed to be from 8-5.  We arrived at 2, no one was
there.

------------------------------

Date: 13 Apr 98 19:33:15 +0000
From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dances With Wolves.

DWW is darn good entertainment.  Got a few small things that are wrong
(Pheasant feathers on the Pawnee), but I think the original story was based
on the Comanche.  Fun to watch tho.  Don Keas


LODGEPOLE wrote:
>In a message dated 98-04-11 12:38:45 EDT, Iron Burner wrote:
>
><< For what it's worth (absolutely nothing), I agree.  Just the buffalo
> hunt is worth the price of admission.  But in at least one instance, I
> don't know why they thought they had to compromise authenticity for a
> "better" story line.  For example, the boy who was injured while trying
> to steal Dances With Wolves horse, said he was afraid that his father
> would beat him when he found out.  From what I have read, this is not
> the way the Lakota treated their offspring, particularly boys. >>
>
>  Well, I am no expert on these things.  It may have been an "Authors
Mistake"
>in the book or something that was overlooked when the movie was made and
the
>Indian Tribe was changed to Lakota from the original tribe in the book.
I am
>not sure what the tribe was as I never did get around to reading it.
But the
>tribe was changed to Lakota for the movie as there aren't many members
of the
>tribe in the book around today and there were plenty of  Lakota to be
found to
>make the movie.  At any rate that was the story told on one of those
"making
>of the Movie" shows I saw on the tube.
>
>                                          Longshot
>
>
>
>RFC822 header
>-----------------------------------
>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:50:52 -0600
From: bob----debie <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Memorial Day weekend events

EmmaPeel2 wrote:
>
> Anything going on it the Southwest?  Like..New Mexico or Colorado?  Went to an
> event last week, was supposed to be from 8-5.  We arrived at 2, no one was
> there.


Moon of Crow.  Apr. 17-19.  North of Silver City. N.M.
Hands @ 505-535-4316

Powder Horn Clan.  North of Flagstaff, AZ.  23-26.  Winterheart @
520-772-1566

May 1-3 NMLRA Nationals.  Roy, Utah.  Glenn  @ 801-776-2009

May 15-17  Gloretta, N.M.

May 23-25  CSMLA shoot, Florence, Co.  Joy @ 719-598-5715

29-31  Taos Free Trappers.  N.M.  Grey Wolf @ 505-753-8440

July
NRA Santa Fe.  raton. N.M.  Melvin @ 505-445-9637
Wolf Creek  Pagosa Springs, Co.  Bob @ 303-264-5154  Need to confirm
this one.

Bob G

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:37:07 -0400
From: Robert Schnebel <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Uses of deerhair today

Until WWII, deerhair was commonly found in life-preservers. With the use
of Kapok, deerhair was discontinued for that purpose. Deerhair is now
used for 1- Hockey players pads, 2- Amish farmers horse collars, and 3-
fishing flies.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:49:21 +0000
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Memorial Day weekend events

let's hear it for Moon of the Crow...........waugh!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:43:01 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Charlie P. Webb)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Memorial Day weekend events

Howdy,
The Colorado Springs Muzzle Loaders Inc. will be hosting
our 24th Annual Memorial Day Shoot and Rendezvous
May 23, 24, 25, 1998 at the Florence Mountain Park
just a few miles South of Florence, Colorado.  Our event
is the largest muzzle loading shoot in Colorado,  actually
more of a shoot then a rendezvous, but we do have primitive
camping, modern tin tipi's camp,  a primitive range, hunters
walk, (not a survival walk)  as well as the NMLRA paper
target range.  We have a shotgun range, will have Mtn.
Man Run,  Mtn. Mama Run, kids games,  hawk and knife
range, primitive attire judging, and much more good times.
If you are interested and need more information, contact me
off list with your snail mail address and I will send you all
the information we have.   I guarantee if you show up on the
proper dates, we'll be there to greet ya!  We encourage folks
to dress pre 1840, but no one will be turned away because of
"T"shirts and ball caps.  We are not an re-enactment event,
just a bunch of folks putting on a fun thing for patched round
ball muzzle loaders.

Respectfully,
C Webb
CC CO.

On Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:31:55 EDT EmmaPeel2 <[e-mail]> writes:
>Anything going on it the Southwest?  Like..New Mexico or Colorado?
>Went to an
>event last week, was supposed to be from 8-5.  We arrived at 2, no one
>was
>there.
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:38:49 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Ted A Hart)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dances With Wolves

The tribe that was mentioned in the book are Comanches or Kiowas but I
think it's Comanche.  They are still around but not romanticaized like
the Lakotas are.  Comanches basically are more war like than the Lakotas
in some ways.  The frontier didn't advance in Texas while the Comanches
and Kiowas lived and ruled the land but after they were relocated to the
reservations the frontier advanced very fast and rapidly.  Now days
Comanches and Kiowas are mostly mixed bloods....not easy to find any
fullbloods anymore.  I heard from one Kiowa at a powwow that fullbloods
of all the nations of North America would fit into a full sized plane
(457 or something like that).  The biggest Indian nation with the biggest
group of mixed bloods are the Tsalagi (Cherokees) because they allow
anyone who can vertify that a family member in their lineage was a
Cherokee to be a member of their nation.

Ted

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:02:36 -0700
From: Marlis Simms <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Memorial Day weekend events

At 08:50 AM 4/14/98 -0600, you wrote:
>EmmaPeel2 wrote:
>>
>> Anything going on it the Southwest?  Like..New Mexico or Colorado?  Went
to an
>> event last week, was supposed to be from 8-5.  We arrived at 2, no one was
>> there.
>
>
>Moon of Crow.  Apr. 17-19.  North of Silver City. N.M.
>Hands @ 505-535-4316(Great Rendezvous, have been down there for the past
three years).

>
>Powder Horn Clan.  North of Flagstaff, AZ.  23-26.  Winterheart @
>520-772-1566
>
>May 1-3 NMLRA Nationals.  Roy, Utah.  Glenn  @ 801-776-2009(I'm not sure
about this one, is this the NMLRA Pacific Rendezvous to be held in St.
George, Utah and for just three days????)
>
>May 15-17  Gloretta, N.M.(We live in Glorieta, we are not familiar with
this rendezvous, could you be talking about the Civil War re-enactment of
the Battle of Glorieta?  This is held at Rancho de las Golondrinas, 12
miles south of Santa Fe)
>
>May 23-25  CSMLA shoot, Florence, Co.  Joy @ 719-598-5715
>
>29-31  Taos Free Trappers.  N.M.  Grey Wolf @ 505-753-8440  (We have heard
unfavorable comments concerning this rendezvous.)
>
>July
>NRA Santa Fe.  raton. N.M.  Melvin @ 505-445-9637(The Santa Fe Trails
Rendezvous is the second week of June, not July.)  You might contact the
NRA Whittington Center in Raton for more information and contact persons on
this one, or contact David LeMond @ [phone]

>Wolf Creek  Pagosa Springs, Co.  Bob @ 303-264-5154  Need to confirm
>this one.(Not sure about this one, went a couple of years ago, quite a
nice place.  Can't say who is in charge, but if you call the Pagosa Springs
Chamber of Commerce they should have all the information.

There is a new one coming up the end of July (31st) to August 9 in
beautiful Chama, New Mexico.  It is a tradefair, sponsored by the hotels in
Chama and the Cumbres Toltec Railroad.  Big Horn Tent City, contact
719-587-9077.  Will be setting up at the railraod site in Chama.

Check Smoke & Fire News for more information on places, dates and times of
all kinds of events.


>Marlis
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 06:21:41 -0500
From: "Scott Allen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Needs a Ride to Market Fair

Hello the list(s)

A good friend of mine is in dire need of a ride (share driving duties
and expenses) from the Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota are to the
Fort Frederick Market Fair next week. The fellas he originally was
coming with backed out at the last minute. He could drive a little to
meet you if neccessary.  I know it's a longshot, but if anyone is
coming this way and have room, he sure could use the help. Contact me
via email or Jim Newman at [e-mail], phone [phone].
Thanks much.


Your most humble servant,
Scott Allen
Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick
Fairplay, MD
http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:03:00 EDT
From: EmmaPeel2 <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Thank you!

Clearly enough summer activities to keep my family running around!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:20:58 -0700
From: "Gail Carbiener" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Beaver..

Dumb question department.

How did the mountain men attach their beaver skins to the circular willow
rack without damaging the skins? How long would the skins have remained on
the rack.

I may try to do this but with already tanned skins. I will use the skin and
rack as a prop for my living history gig in the museum. Thanks to all by the
way for the referral to Moscow Fur!

Gail

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:34:59 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jeremiah Johnson

>Jim Lindberg wrote:
>>
>> Goto http://movie.reel.com/moviepage/647.html
>>
>> Shows Jeremiah Johnson can be had for:
>>
>> New      Used    Laserdisc  DVD      Widescreen
>> ---      ----    ---------  ---      ----------
>> $12.74   $6.99   $29.73     $17.49   $16.98
>>
>> Jeremiah Johnson can also be obtained from Critic's Choice Video, for
>>$10.77, at 800-367-7765.  I just recieved their catalog in the mail.
>
>Why did the movie makers feel the need to change John Johnston's name to
>Jeremiah Johnson?
>
>Ken C


Since the story was fictionalized, it was best to change the names of major
characters.  That way no one can say "John Johnston didn't really do that"
because it isn't about the real John Johnston, but the fictional Jerimiah
Johnson.  J. J. as a character is a composite of several historical
figures.  The film was loosely based on the life of Johnston as well as
others, but by and large it's is pure historical fiction.  Good movie, but
fiction none the less.

Cheers,
HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
******  Living History . . . Because it's there!  *******

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #52
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