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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #45 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Sunday, March 29 1998 Volume 01 : Number 045 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:48:49 EST From: ThisOldFox <ThisOldFox@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Green River knife Carp writes: > I found, in an antique shop, what > I believe to be an original Russell, Green River knife. It is stamped, > not etched(sp?), Russell Green River Works (and I just cut myself with > it, it is very sharp). Russell is underlined from after the capital R > to the last L and Green River Works is underneath, all in caps. The > blade is 11 3/4" from the hilt to the tip and the handle is 5 7/16". I also picked up a Green River knife at a flea market. Mine is a skinner. Mine has: J.R. RUSSEL & CO. GREEN RIVER WORKS stamped on the blade in CAPS, and there is a faint diamond beneath the printing. It has been re-hafted and the scales are held on with 5 pins. It shows minor pitting on the blade and the tang tapers to almost nothing at the rear. I'm aware that these blades are still made, but one or both of us may be winners or losers as the case may be. I win anyhow, cause I only gave 3 bucks for mine. OldFox ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 20:22:31 EST From: MIA3WOLVES <MIA3WOLVES@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: History reinactments NMLRA; June 13 - 21, Friendship, Indiana. Has a great primitive area. \(812) 667-5131 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 20:05:18 -0700 From: "Sommer J. Smouse" <smouse@ubtanet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Islanders in the Mtns I have hear that Pacific Islanders were brought in to work in the fur trade. Where can I find a reference for this. I know they weren't called by the names we know them by todat, what were they called. Thanks Forrest Smouse ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:08:15 -0600 From: Jim Colburn <jc60714@navix.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Burglary Washtahay- sometime in the past few days, I had some stuff stolen from my garage. Rondyvoo related stuff seems to have consisted of: 14' diamond fly 8' square ground cloth 4 pt HBC blanket (candy stripe pattern) Capote-white w/black stripe (Whitney blanket). Sized real large-I am about 6'4" and have a 50" chest. No hood, pockets on each side. Sewn with linen thread. All of the above was stuffed in an OD green duffle bag. Also taken was over 200 bullet moulds (mostly for suppository guns) packed in 7.62 ammo cans. If ya see someone who doesn't fit in trying to sell this stuff, I would appreciate a note. Thanks LongWalker c. du B. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 23:24:37 EST From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: 1803 Rifle there has been 5 or 6 posting on the 1803 italian harpers ferry copy seems that not many people know much about muzzle loading rifles and accuracy and working up a load, and just plain getting one to shoot properly. i have built several and have restored even more. i don't want to be snide or say anything out of place but.????????? an italian production gun that will hold the 10 ring the first 7 shots out of the barrel at a hundred yds is a wonderment to me. it may shoot good but????? I have been shooting matches for over 30 years and have won more of them than i feel i should have both offhand and from the bench, this includes several at friendship at the national championships. I would highly suggest that all of you that are discussing the twist and etc set down and do some basic reading. first on the list i suggest "The muzzle loading Cap lock rifle" by ned roberts. the next i would suggest is "Muzzle loading shooting and winning with the champions" can be purchased from the NMLRA. I can go on and on if you wish but truly believe these two will give you the best basics on rifles twists, working up a load and actual shooting. this is either flint or percussion that i am speaking of. i have sit back and read the input provided and think why are they giving such info. I have won a lot of hundred yard matches with scores from 40 to 49 and usually there is 2 or 3 10 and then a couple of those OOPS that brings down the score with At least one hang fire and or 3 flinches included. a guy that will shoot a 50 at a 100 yds with a muzzle loading rifle right out of the box has either one or 3 things. 1. Darn lucky--- 2. a outstanding shot 3. owns a muzzle loading rifle built by the big maker with lazar guided round balls which can never miss the 10 ring. the key holing of the bullets can be caused from many things that i could probably write at least 10 pages on or about, and twist is not one of them that i would start with. please check out the above suggested reading and if you have any questions please feel free to contact me OFFLINE or give me a call and we will discuss getting a muzzle loader to shoot with round ball or slugs-- I have three slug guns that i shoot with 2 being originals. LIST PLEASE FORGIVE ME FOR MY HASTY AND OVERZEALOUS INPUT: MICHAEL PIERCE 854 GLENFIELD DR PALM HARBOR FLORIDA 34684 1-813-771-1815 E-MAIL: HAWKNEST4@JUNO.COM WEB SITE: http://members.tripod.com/HAWKNEST4/index.html On Fri, 27 Mar 1998 07:31:26 -0500 Philip Alexander <kd4rfa@mindspring.com> writes: >1 in 20" or 21" for a target rifle. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dennis Fisher [SMTP:dfisher@sbceo.k12.ca.us] >Sent: Thursday, March 26, 1998 7:06 PM >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: 1803 Rifle > >Dave Parks wrote: > >> Most likely, you have 1 in 48 rifling for round ball. You >> need a faster twist for longer bullets. 1 in 66" will usually >straighten >> out your keyholers......."That's the Cause". > >I think maybe you got that a little backwards or I'm reading it wrong. > >1 in 66" for round balls and 1 in 48" for miniballs or elongated type >bullets. > > Dennis > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 09:33:38 -0800 From: Lester Ross <lross@bigfoot.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Islanders in the Mtns <HTML> <BODY TEXT="#000000" BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF" LINK="#0000EE" VLINK="#008000" ALINK="#FF0000"> Among others, the Hudson's Bay Company, Western Department utilized Sandwich Islanders (i.e., Hawaiian Islanders or Kanakas) to work at Fort Vancouver (Vancouver, WA). They resided in a village, Kanaka Village, west of the 1829-1860 stockade, along with French-Canadian, Iroquois, and other Native American servants and family members. These Kanakas were used extensively as farm laborers, with a few used as personal servants. Little has been published in mainstream articles or books on the history of these individuals. A couple of works which provide more extensive information include: Hussey, John A. 1957 The History of Fort Vancouver and its Physical Structure. Washington State Historical Society, Tacoma. Kardas, Susan 1971 "The People Bought This and the Clatsop Became Rich.": A View of Nineteenth Century Fur Trade Relationships on the Lower Columbia between Chinookan Speakers, Whites, and Kanakas. Ph.D. dissertation. Department of Anthropology, Bryn Mawr College, Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania. The site of Kanaka Village has been the focus of numerous archaeological excavations. For a more complete listing of reports discussing this research, see the web site on the historical archaeology of Fort Vancouver at: <A HREF="http://www.spiretech.com/~lester/fova/historical/historical.htm">http://www.spiretech.com/~lester/fova/historical/historical.htm</A> LAR </BODY> </HTML> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 13:13:28 EST From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Green River Knife check out the blade a lot or most of them were hand forged and some will show forge marks. sometimes the forge marks were ground off. a lot of the later ones IE those made from 1930 -present some of the marks are etched and a few are stamped. Atlanta cutlery has some good copies and they even hold a good edge. a lot of people usto buy them as butcher knives and a few meat packing places get them for skinners. I thought i found one last fall that was original until i looked at the blade and found that it was not forged and it didn't have the 5 pins, only the 3 main rivits. the pins usually are a good clue. they are there besides the 3 rivits. you still have to look close because some of the early ones made in chicago have the 5 pins. a hardware supplier out of chicago usto make and supply them. THEY MADE A GOOD COPY IN THE 1920 THRU 1940'S. tHEY EVEN STAMPED IT GREEN RIVER. We usto pick up the copies of the skinner and the strait blade sticker at friendship for about $2.00 to $5.00 several years ago and use them for prizes at blanket shoots. Atlanta Cutlery usto have a booth there, and sell all types of blades, some with handles and some without. I gave a old green river type skinner and a beaded scabbard to a close friend ( Dan Anderson with a AMM # less than 100==== he's in "who's who in buckskins) and after mutch deliberating about the knife he decided along with a few others that they felt that it was an original green river. It was the second Green river that he had ever owned. according to him also check the handle size. some are a little smaller than the ones made after 1900 for some reason. almost have to have a old one and a new one to compare and to note similarities to a untrained eye. the green river skinner even a newer one looks very period in a beaded sheeth or a good tack sheeth, made with good original type brass tacks. I also totally concur with oldfoxes comments RE green river knives. if the price is right it's a darn good find and a very usable knife. "Hawk" michael pierce E-mail: hawksnest4@juno.com On Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:02:41 -0600 WIDD-Tim Austin (WIDD-Tim Austin) <AustinT@silltcmd-smtp.army.mil> writes: >Sounds like a good find, however.... > >All the originals that I have seen, granted not that many, and all in >the >vaults of several museums have the handle attached with 5 small pins. >The 3 rivets seem to date the knife to a later time period. > >I am sure it is still a good knife. > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 13:13:28 EST From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: History reinactments best make your reservations early and get there early to set up or you might be banished to the overflow area. check out their web site on the computer. can be located by using the key words: NMLRA, muzzleloading, black powder--- these will also give you some other interesting sites. the NMLRA site even has some goos articles and some good links "Hawk" michael pierce e-mail hawknest4@juno.com On Fri, 27 Mar 1998 20:22:31 EST MIA3WOLVES <MIA3WOLVES@aol.com> writes: >NMLRA; June 13 - 21, Friendship, Indiana. Has a great primitive area. >\(812) >667-5131 > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 10:35:21 -0800 From: Dave Parks <kc7cnw@wmni.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Keyholing Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, mine and 95% of the gunsmiths I've worked with over the past 43 years, seem to agree that the number one reason a bullet, be it a minie or a Nosler Partition, keyholes in flight, is because of the WRONG TWIST for the the length of the bullet. The longer the bullet, the faster the twist. That's why a 6.5 M.S. has such a fast twist. It has a very long bullet that looks like a submarine and a shorter bullet in the same caliber does not shoot as well. For instance, a standard 30-06 rifle twist is centered around a 160 grain bullet. It is difficult to get the .30 cal. 110 grn. to shoot a decent group. This has been my experience over the years. Regards, _M_ Manywounds W ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:35:38 -0600 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <rat@htcomp.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Burglary Sorry to hear about your loss. What part of the country did this crime occur? - -----Original Message----- From: Jim Colburn <jc60714@navix.net> To: hist_text@xmission.com <hist_text@xmission.com> Date: Saturday, March 28, 1998 10:30 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Burglary >Washtahay- > sometime in the past few days, I had some stuff stolen from my >garage. Rondyvoo related stuff seems to have consisted of: > >14' diamond fly >8' square ground cloth >4 pt HBC blanket (candy stripe pattern) >Capote-white w/black stripe (Whitney blanket). Sized real large-I am about >6'4" and have a 50" chest. No hood, pockets on each side. Sewn with linen >thread. > >All of the above was stuffed in an OD green duffle bag. > Also taken was over 200 bullet moulds (mostly for suppository guns) >packed in 7.62 ammo cans. > > If ya see someone who doesn't fit in trying to sell this stuff, I >would appreciate a note. >Thanks >LongWalker c. du B. > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 19:18:36 -0600 (CST) From: sgtsam@cp.duluth.mn.us Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Green River knife Don't know a lot about this, but the late Wad Miller of the Great Lakes Fur Trade museum once told me that no original Russell knives in use during the fur trade era were engraved "Green River," or even (I believe) Russell, making identification somewhat tough. He showed me several and all had five small pins - rivets were apparently a later innovation. Tangs were also tapered (thinner) at the top of the handle than at the hilt. P. Girard ================= >Carp writes: > >> I found, in an antique shop, what >> I believe to be an original Russell, Green River knife. It is stamped, >> not etched(sp?), Russell Green River Works (and I just cut myself with >> it, it is very sharp). Russell is underlined from after the capital R >> to the last L and Green River Works is underneath, all in caps. The >> blade is 11 3/4" from the hilt to the tip and the handle is 5 7/16". > >I also picked up a Green River knife at a flea market. Mine is a skinner. >Mine has: > >J.R. RUSSEL & CO. >GREEN RIVER WORKS > >stamped on the blade in CAPS, and there is a faint diamond beneath the >printing. It has been re-hafted and the scales are held on with 5 pins. It >shows minor pitting on the blade and the tang tapers to almost nothing at the >rear. >I'm aware that these blades are still made, but one or both of us may be >winners or losers as the case may be. I win anyhow, cause I only gave 3 bucks >for mine. > >OldFox > > hes ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 19:09:46 -0600 (CST) From: sgtsam@cp.duluth.mn.us Subject: Re: MtMan-List: History reinactments >You could check with Fort Michilimackinac at Mackinac City, Mich. Try your browser, they should have a website, or you could try talking to this fella from the Detroit area: davidrt@juno.com P. Girard > > >AWarn10378 wrote: > >> I am searching for dates of historical reinactments in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana >> and Kentucky. I am also searching for information about becoming a reinactor. >> Hope you can help. > > >Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Content-Description: Card for Les Chaffin >Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" > >Attachment Converted: C:\WINDOWS\DESKTOP\vcard1.vcf > hes ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:43:34 -0800 From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Islanders in the Mtns This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD5A68.A5F5F420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Read anything about HBC on the Pacific Coast, Fort Vancouver, they were mentioned in the journals about the pacific fur trade co. when they came around the horn . Just about anything about the NW will do they were hired to be labors for the HBC. later Jon T - ---------- : From: Sommer J. Smouse <smouse@ubtanet.com> : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Subject: MtMan-List: Islanders in the Mtns : Date: Friday, January 27, 1995 7:05 PM : : I have hear that Pacific Islanders were brought in to work in the fur : trade. Where can I find a reference for this. I know they weren't : called by the names we know them by todat, what were they called. : : Thanks : Forrest Smouse : - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD5A68.A5F5F420 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">Read anything about HBC on the Pacific = Coast, Fort Vancouver, they were mentioned in the journals about the = pacific fur trade co. when they came around the horn . = Just about anything about the NW will do they were hired to = be labors for the HBC. later Jon T ---------- : From: = Sommer J. Smouse <smouse@ubtanet.com> : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Subject: MtMan-List: Islanders in the Mtns : = Date: Friday, January 27, 1995 7:05 PM : : I have hear that = Pacific Islanders were brought in to work in the fur : trade. = Where can I find a reference for this. I know = they weren't : called by the names we know them by todat, what were = they called. : : Thanks : Forrest Smouse : </body></html> - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD5A68.A5F5F420-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 15:42:06 -1000 From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Islanders in the Mtns Lester Ross wrote: > > > Among others, the Hudson's Bay Company, Western Department utilized > Sandwich Islanders (i.e., Hawaiian Islanders or Kanakas) to work at > Fort Vancouver (Vancouver, WA). They resided in a village, Kanaka > Village, west of the 1829-1860 stockade, along with French-Canadian, > Iroquois, and other Native American servants and family members. > These Kanakas were used extensively as farm laborers, with a few used > as personal servants. > The site of Kanaka Village has been the focus of numerous > archaeological excavations. For a more complete listing of reports > discussing this research, see the web site on the historical > archaeology of Fort Vancouver at: > http://www.spiretech.com/~lester/fova/historical/historical.htm > > LAR > Thanks so much for this info. Never had any idea Islanders were working on the Mainland in that time period. Aloha Blue ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 20:08:36 -0600 From: Jim Colburn <jc60714@navix.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Burglary Washtahay- At 05:35 PM 3/28/98 -0600, you wrote: >Sorry to hear about your loss. What part of the country did this crime >occur? Guess I should have said. i am in eastern Nebraska. Thanks LongWalker c. du B. >-----Original Message----- >From: Jim Colburn <jc60714@navix.net> >To: hist_text@xmission.com <hist_text@xmission.com> >Date: Saturday, March 28, 1998 10:30 AM >Subject: MtMan-List: Burglary > > >>Washtahay- >> sometime in the past few days, I had some stuff stolen from my >>garage. Rondyvoo related stuff seems to have consisted of: >> >>14' diamond fly >>8' square ground cloth >>4 pt HBC blanket (candy stripe pattern) >>Capote-white w/black stripe (Whitney blanket). Sized real large-I am about >>6'4" and have a 50" chest. No hood, pockets on each side. Sewn with linen >>thread. >> >>All of the above was stuffed in an OD green duffle bag. >> Also taken was over 200 bullet moulds (mostly for suppository guns) >>packed in 7.62 ammo cans. >> >> If ya see someone who doesn't fit in trying to sell this stuff, I >>would appreciate a note. >>Thanks >>LongWalker c. du B. >> > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 21:05:48 +0000 From: Longtrail <ezra@midrivers.com> Subject: MtMan-List: making snowshoes While devouring the latest edition of Fur Fish & Game, I came across a book about making snowshoes. It says: "Building Snowshoes: The only book of its kind, 100 pages. over 85 illustrations, $11.95 plus $2.00 P&H. or SASE for free book brochure." Gil Patrick Box 461F, Skowhegan, Me. 04976 I recall that a while back someone was looking for information on making snowshoes. I hope it helps. Longtrail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 22:32:57 -0700 From: Dean Rudy <drudy@xmission.com> Subject: MtMan-List: JIM BECKWOURTH >Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 21:50:29 -0700 (MST) >X-Template: /home/users/d/drudy/public_html/mail.txt >To: <drudy@xmission.com> >From: Gerard Mawn <GMawn@aol.com> >Subject: JIM BECKWOURTH > >Just wanted to let you know that Im presenting a play about Jim Beckwourth in NYC April 21-May3rd. 4/26/98 is the bicentennial of his birth. Seems like a perfect time. > >I have been in contact with Mildred Sparks (msparks@dced.state.ut.us) about presenting the show in Salt Lake, but no confirmation, yet...:-) > >Gerard > >-- >This e-mail was generated from the world-wide web; the e-mail address > "Gerard Mawn <GMawn@aol.com>" >may be incorrect. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 07:02:31 EST From: JFLEMYTH <JFLEMYTH@aol.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: rate of twist I know several things that can lead to keyholing, but the first thing I would look at is what is the twist and what is the powder load. For instance, I do most of my informal shooting with a T/C Hawkin in .50 caliber. (Not very period correct, but very fun and easy to clean.) I get great groups with round ball at 25 or 50 yards with patched ball and 60 grains of FFg. However, when I try to shoot conicles, even with 85 grains, I occasionaly keyhole because the rate of twist is too slow to stabilize the bullet at those low end velocities. And that is approaching maximum safe load! What else do you reccomend? You obviously have a lot of experience and knowledge, (something I don't always have!) But I don't see why your against discussing rate of twist. John Fleming ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 05:08:09 -0700 From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Burglary Dear LongWalker, I'd sincerely like to help you nail the bad guys, but really, take a step back and look at the information you've provided about the stolen property. Similar items could be found at just about any rendezvous. I'm not sure what a suppository gun is, but I try not to make a habit out of checking other people's suppositories. Can you provide a better description of the 200 bullet molds. What's really the unique and differently that would make a positive identification of any of the the stolen property? D.T. - -----Original Message----- From: Jim Colburn <jc60714@navix.net> To: hist_text@xmission.com <hist_text@xmission.com> Date: Saturday, March 28, 1998 9:39 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Burglary >Washtahay- > sometime in the past few days, I had some stuff stolen from my >garage. Rondyvoo related stuff seems to have consisted of: > >14' diamond fly >8' square ground cloth >4 pt HBC blanket (candy stripe pattern) >Capote-white w/black stripe (Whitney blanket). Sized real large-I am about >6'4" and have a 50" chest. No hood, pockets on each side. Sewn with linen >thread. > >All of the above was stuffed in an OD green duffle bag. > Also taken was over 200 bullet moulds (mostly for suppository guns) >packed in 7.62 ammo cans. > > If ya see someone who doesn't fit in trying to sell this stuff, I >would appreciate a note. >Thanks >LongWalker c. du B. > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 05:34:55 -0700 From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Islanders in the Mtns Forrest, Look at the Fort Hall trade records and you'll see numerous Pacific Islanders were buying supplies from Fort Hall. I have also heard, but can't offer references, that a number of Shoshone families who have done their geneology show Pacific Islander's in their family trees. Fort Hall was, and is, in the heart fo Shoshone country. You might check surnames on the tribal rolls for Islander names. I know that Francis Ermatinger, one of the Hudson Bay traders left children with his name in the tribe, and the Ermatinger is a fairly common Shoshone name today. Not to suggest that Ermatinger was an Islander, but it shows the Indians often kept the names of their non-Indian fathers. Rocky Mountain beaver trappers, on close examination, turn out to be a pretty diverse group, probably even more diverse than many of the populations in the big city melting pots we often credit for mixing the blood of lots of immigrants. At first examination, it doesn't look as ethnically diverse because most of the journal keeper's families came from Northern Europe, and most genarally the British Isles -- even if their daddies fought for the Colonies during the American Revolution. Just my opinion, but I suspect some day that we'll rocognize that dark complexions were a lot more common than fair skin among the "American" mountain men. Good luck finding your Islanders -- they were there. Dave T. - -----Original Message----- From: Sommer J. Smouse <smouse@ubtanet.com> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Saturday, March 28, 1998 9:40 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Islanders in the Mtns >I have hear that Pacific Islanders were brought in to work in the fur >trade. Where can I find a reference for this. I know they weren't >called by the names we know them by todat, what were they called. > >Thanks >Forrest Smouse > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 12:46:52 EST From: Rkleinx2 <Rkleinx2@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Islanders in the Mtns In a message dated 3/28/98 8:39:34 AM, you wrote: <> Kanaka's ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 10:18:07 -0800 From: "Gail Carbiener" <carbg@cmc.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cast Iron Pots Hi all: Recently purchased a cast iron pot made by "J.A. Coewey" of Albany, New York. It is 9 1/2" high and 9 3/4" top diameter. I cannot find anything about the manufacturer on the Net. Got any ideas? Gail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 14:30:21 -0400 From: bspen@aye.net (Bob Spencer) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Green River knife >Don't know a lot about this, but the late Wad Miller of the Great Lakes Fur >Trade museum once told me that no original Russell knives in use during the >fur trade era were engraved "Green River," or even (I believe) Russell, >making identification somewhat tough. He showed me several and all had >five small pins - rivets were apparently a later innovation. Tangs were >also tapered (thinner) at the top of the handle than at the hilt. > >P. Girard >>I also picked up a Green River knife at a flea market. Mine is a skinner. >>Mine has: >> >>J.R. RUSSEL & CO. >>GREEN RIVER WORKS >>OldFox I've uploaded two pictures for anyone interested in seeing another version of the Green River Russell. This one is of Civil War vintage, according to Madison Grant's book. The 4 1/4 inch handle is stag, the tang is slightly tapered, there are 5 small pins plus an escutcheon, the 8 3/8 inch blade is of the Bowie style, and the markings are as described by OldFox. There is the typical diamond-within-a-diamond cartouche stamped on the blade below the label. Point your browser to: http://www.aye.net/~bspen/Pictures/Bowie.jpeg http://www.aye.net/~bspen/Pictures/Bowie2.jpeg Bob Bob Spencer <bspen@aye.net> http://www.aye.net/~bspen/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 11:39:20 -0800 From: Dale Nelson <dnelson@wmni.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Islanders in the Mtns Sommer J. Smouse wrote: > > I have hear that Pacific Islanders were brought in to work in the fur > trade. Washington Irving wrote the book "Astoria" which was published in 1836. I have a reprinted copy (1967) and you should be able to find one. He mentions Hawaii on pages 44,45,47,58,and 433. He mentions "Sandwich Islands" (Hawaii) on pages 45,318,319,425,and 430 and he mentions Sandwich Islanders on pages 45,48,57,61,318, and taken on board the ship "Beaver" on pages 319,322,398,445, and 453, so that might be a good place to start. Also you might be interested in knowing that the Owyhee River over in the desert of eastern Oregon and western Idaho is actually the phonetic way that some old boy spelled Hawaii. Apparently not all of the Hawaiians stayed laborers, but some went on to be trappers, perhaps even free trappers. Lets face it, the journals that we read were all written in English. There are some good ones in German and French that I can't read. A lot of things went on that we only know bits and pieces of. Like women (wives) and children with the brigades in the field. They were with Jed Smith when he went to Calif., but only mentioned once in passing, and easy to miss. Dale Nelson dnelson@wizzards.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 14:47:37 -0600 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <rat@htcomp.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Burglary breechloaders - -----Original Message----- From: David Tippets <wolverine76@email.msn.com> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Sunday, March 29, 1998 1:07 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Burglary >Dear LongWalker, > >I'd sincerely like to help you nail the bad guys, but really, take a step >back and look at the information you've provided about the stolen property. >Similar items could be found at just about any rendezvous. > >I'm not sure what a suppository gun is, but I try not to make a habit out of >checking other people's suppositories. Can you provide a better description >of the 200 bullet molds. > >What's really the unique and differently that would make a positive >identification of any of the the stolen property? > >D.T. > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jim Colburn <jc60714@navix.net> >To: hist_text@xmission.com <hist_text@xmission.com> >Date: Saturday, March 28, 1998 9:39 AM >Subject: MtMan-List: Burglary > > >>Washtahay- >> sometime in the past few days, I had some stuff stolen from my >>garage. Rondyvoo related stuff seems to have consisted of: >> >>14' diamond fly >>8' square ground cloth >>4 pt HBC blanket (candy stripe pattern) >>Capote-white w/black stripe (Whitney blanket). Sized real large-I am about >>6'4" and have a 50" chest. No hood, pockets on each side. Sewn with linen >>thread. >> >>All of the above was stuffed in an OD green duffle bag. >> Also taken was over 200 bullet moulds (mostly for suppository guns) >>packed in 7.62 ammo cans. >> >> If ya see someone who doesn't fit in trying to sell this stuff, I >>would appreciate a note. >>Thanks >>LongWalker c. du B. >> >> > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 16:04:54 EST From: JSeminerio <JSeminerio@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: JIM BECKWOURTH In a message dated 98-03-29 14:15:30 EST, you write: << Just wanted to let you know that Im presenting a play about Jim Beckwourth in NYC April 21-May3rd. 4/26/98 is the bicentennial of his birth. Seems like a perfect time. >> I and a few other brothers live in the valley please post the wheres & etc. and we will come see you. Hey make it a press event and we will come in our skins ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 16:15:13 -0600 (CST) From: sgtsam@cp.duluth.mn.us Subject: Re: MtMan-List: making snowshoes >While devouring the latest edition of Fur Fish & Game, I came across a >book about making snowshoes. It says: >"Building Snowshoes: The only book of its kind, 100 pages. over 85 >illustrations, $11.95 plus $2.00 P&H. or SASE for free book brochure." >Gil Patrick >Box 461F, >Skowhegan, Me. 04976 >I recall that a while back someone was looking for information on making >snowshoes. I hope it helps. Longtrail ==================== Though you may want to change a few things if you wish to make period correct snowshoes (rawhide lace and knots used, plus a much tighter weave) Gilpatrick's book is an excellent beginners guide with step by step instuctions. If you can read, count, and follow directions, you can make a pair of snowshoes using this book. For the first pair you make I would follow the book exactly and not change a thing. Experiment on subsequent pairs. P. Girard > > hes ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #45 ****************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.