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hist_text-digest        Thursday, March 5 1998        Volume 01 : Number 033




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 10:40:00 -0500
From: paul mueller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Capotes again.

Frank Stewart wrote:
>
> Hello the camp,
>
> I've read all the archive on "capotes" and "blankets" and am unable to
> find the definitive answer to what the period correct colors are for a
> capote or blanket.
> One problem is of course, what's available!
> I'm finding predominantly, scarlet, emerald, royal blue and white
> multi-stripe.  I know the multi-stripe is out.
> As always, your help is appreciated!
>
> MB


  what time frame are you looking for pre 1840 pre 1790 as for the multi
 stripe look around 1820 . the multi strip blanket is in fact a type of
chiefs phase blankets.rember you need your three primary colors to make
the rest of them. red, blue and yellow. alot of people talk what color
is right. most blankets were made in pairs and then split dye lots were
not always even. in a 1677 letter to witney mills, the purchasers
indicated that they wanted the blankets dyed red and blue,as these were
the colors that best pleased the indians of virginia.the white blanket
with a black, blue,or red strip would be very good also. a good book to
get and read would be the lan language of the robe.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 17:44:52 EST
From: JSeminerio <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Capotes again.

Hey Medicine Bear

I know that Rogers Rangers had white blankets with black or indigo stripes (at
least that's what the article in Muzzleloader says), whitney makes a copy.
It's a very nice blanket.  That is about 90 years early I know , but it
probably was available

Hope that helps

JS

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 09:47:48 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:(Gourd Canteens)

>I have an article I pulled off the net on making a gourd canteen.  (I just
>noticed that it has "J2HEARTS" name on it!)  It is a well done article, but I
>havn't seen any gourds I liked enough to try it yet.  He reccommends using
>bees wax and parafin melted together with several coats applied.  It may be
>worth trying.
>
>Also, How well have you cleaned the interior?  Could you be getting some
>floatsom in your drink?
>

The waxing accomplishes this.

As long as I'm in a writing mood, I thought I'd tell you how I clean my
gourds.  I start with a ramrod and clean as much loose stuff and seeds as
possible (save those seeds to replant next year.)  Then I pour in several
quarter (25 cent) size rocks and swish them around knocking more membrane
material loose, and pour it out.  Do this 3-4 times.   Then go with a
smaller rock size (maybe half) and repeat the procedure, 3-4 times.  Then
go with an even smaller siuze, maybe pea gravel (aquarium size) size and
repeat the same 3-4 times.  The succession of rocks does a great job in
cleaning out the gourd.  Sometimes you can reach a finger into the hole and
rub away the loose stuff just under the lip.  I usually let the rocks do
that, though.

After the rock bit, rinse the inside of the gourd of whatever loose
membrane and rock dust there happens to be.  Let the gourd dry completely
before waxing (24 hrs at least)  A few minutes in the oven could do this,
but it might dry too fast and crack.  It's best to let it dry slowly over
time.

Waxing accomplishes three objectives.  1. it coats the inside and forms a
barrier against the foul-tasting inside wall, and 2. it covers whatever
membrane may be left inside and keeps it from coming loose tainting the
water, and 3. it strengthens the gourd wall.  Three coats minimum will
accomplish waxing easily.  You don't have to heat the gourd before pouring
the wax.  The hot wax itself will provide sufficient heat to cause an even
flow of wax.  As it's poured out, rotate the gourd to insure an even
coating on the inside.  Don't forget the mouth of the gourd needs to be
coated, too.  Rotating the gourd as it's poured out accomplishes this.
Allow the wax to cool a bit between each pouring.

It takes a few times to develop a technique of your own, but it's easier
than you might think at first.

Use corks as stoppers.  I find wine bottle corks work well for openings of
that size.  My favorite Southwest drinking gourd is corked with a Spanish
wine cork, complete with Spanish writing stamped on it.  I finish mine off
with rawhide or leather slings, wrapped around the neck and secured by
stitching with sinew.

That's how I do it.

Cheers,
HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
*************    So Long, Harry    **************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 09:15:23 -0800
From: Dennis Fisher <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Subject lines

Howdy,

    Please take the time to put a subject line on your message that
reflects the topic of discussion.  We are still discussing gourd
canteens under the Latex Paint title.  All of these messages are
archieved by subject and anyone searching for info on gourd canteens
would never think to look under latex paint.

                          Dennis

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 17:50:23 EST
From: Traphand <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Capotes again.

are you going to go hunting use it, if so go with earthtones,also take a look
at  all the type that were used.do your homework before you buy.it will save
you money at the end.                            traphand

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 18:01:47 EST
From: JSeminerio <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Local, State cooperation and Reenactments

Ho the list

First find WARREN STEVENS of Connecticutt. He recreated the rogers rangers
march to St Francis, talk about coordinating.  He can give you a lot of
advice.

I am proud to say that for over ten years I was part of the only official New
York City, yes laddies, New York City, Historic re-eanactment.  The Remsen Day
Re-enactment went on for about thirteen years.

The City, especially the Parks Deaprtment Commissioners, the State
representatives and PRIVATE CORPORATIONS, including our utility companies were
all very helpful and considerate.  True we were not allowed to target shoot,
but we did have tomahawk throws and games for the participants' and the
publics kids.

It slowly started to go downhill as corporate donations began to dry up.  It
hard to argue that you should still get your donation of $500 when most of
that money is now going to a shelter for battered women and their children.

You see being in the city (not really we, are in a very nice almost suburban
community in Queens) we had to bride people to come.  At one point it was a
catered event, yes catered, with the local red cross doing coffee and donuts
in the morning, six foot heroes for lunch, and the local Roy Rogers giving us
a BIG break on huge boxes of fried chicken.

Times change and it was fun.  If you have the opportunity to do a great thing
for your community just by putting up with a little bullsh*t , then you know
that you should do the right thing.  Who is going to show kids that this
culture, our SHARED culture (all races, genders and creeds benefitted from it)
was brought about by individuals.  That is such an inportant idea that is
being lost today.  DO IT !!!

P.S.  -  Don't be afraid to ask for what you want and need, if the sponsor(s)
is interested they will pay for it.

Hope that helped
Watch your topknot
JS

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 22:14:31 EST
From: Mtnman1449 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Capotes again.

Check the inventories from the Rondy's for the years you are interested.  See
what the predominant colors are.  Most of those colors are still quite
available.  When in doubt, go with white with black stripe--always correct.
Pat Surrena #1449

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 00:01:54 -0600
From: "Pamela Wheeler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Capotes again.

Howdy,
If you are going to hunt back East I would use red. The deer don't care and
earth tones will probably get you a ball in the butt! I wore a red w/black
stripe capote for years and no one ever said diddle about it. I saw a
picture done by Russel or one of those "old" artists and figured it could
not be to far off the mark. If you are just doin it to be proper go ahead
and burn up the brain cells, but I would look at some of the old paintings
and go with that. When you are freezeing your cahones off waitin for a deer
in one of those thin pretty ones it won't make help a bit that it is
egzakly purfec! On page 140 in People of the First Man (watercolours by
Bodmer) done at Ft.McKenzie, fall of 1833 there is a picture of a Piegan
posed with feather and trade blanket. It is red w/ black stripes. Hope this
helps.
Your Obt. Servant
K. McWilliams
was Ken YellowFeather
AMM 251

- ----------
> From: Traphand <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Capotes again.
> Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 4:50 PM
>
> are you going to go hunting use it, if so go with earthtones,also take a
look
> at  all the type that were used.do your homework before you buy.it will
save
> you money at the end.                            traphand

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 00:30:04 -0600
From: "Pamela Wheeler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Capotes

Howdy all,
Since I am re-joining AMM I need to replace some gear that wore out or
doesn't fit anymore. I need a good source for some basic stuff, like where
I can buy a Hudson Bay blanket. RED of course! Also need to buy some REAL
brass tacks to use to make a new belt. Yes Lance and some of you old farts
that remember me. I ain't skinny anymore! Does anyone know where I can buy
some slow rust browning solution? I need to make me another pistol as well.
Will need a source for a .53 cal barrel blank as well. I can make the rest.
Happy to be back.
Ken McWilliams
was YellowFeather
AMM 251
PS. I had my name changed years ago, but to stop any confusion I will be
using YellowFeather from now on. I should have left it alone in the first
damn place!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 22:54:12 -0800
From: Frank Stewart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Capotes again.

Thanks Paul for the information.

paul mueller wrote:

>   what time frame are you looking for pre 1840 pre 1790 as for the multi
>  stripe look around 1820 .

Sorry, should have said, 1810 - 1825.

>  in a 1677 letter to witney mills, the purchasers
> indicated that they wanted the blankets dyed red and blue,as these were
> the colors that best pleased the indians of virginia.

Were these colors still being used and more importantly used by mountain men
in 1825?

MB

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 02:26:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: CASCADE MT MEN MUZZELOADING ARMS & PIONEER CRAFT SHOW (fwd)

Just a forwarded note on a show up in Washinton.  Supposed to be pretty
good.  I be too poor to go :(

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
MARCH 7 & 8 1998, KING CO. FAIR GROUNDS
ENUMCLAW WA. . GREAT SHOW & DISPLAY. 200+ DEALERS, TRADERS,
SUTTLERS,KNIFE MAKERS,100'S OF GUNS, (CUSTOME & COMM.) & ALL OTHER MANNER
OF WARE.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  HOPE TO SEE SOME OF YOU THERE.

Regards

Lee Newbill
Viola, Idaho
email at [e-mail]
Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder" Webpage
http://www.uidaho.edu/~lnewbill/bp.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:06:05 EST
From: JFLEMYTH <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Running ball

Good idea about the topic lines, Dennis.  I'll try to watch that too.

While I am on, I am looking for a good period correct bullet mold for the late
1700's, something I can keep in my shoting bag.  (I use a .490 round ball.)
However, I don't have any real good sources on what the molds were like at
that point.  Has any body seen something they could reccomend?

Thanks for any ideals.

John "Sky-Pilot" Fleming

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 09:23:07 -0600
From: WIDD-Tim Austin (WIDD-Tim Austin) <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Running Balls

I have two ball molds.  Both are very functional and authentic.  One is
brass and comes from Dixie Gun Works.  Just get their catalog and send
the money in.  They will make the size you tell them to, I think from .300 to
.750.  The other is Rapine.  They also will make the size you tell them to,
and theirs is steel.  Have several of both, for the different shooting bags I
have and the different guns.  Both work well.  Both have cutters on
them, I like the Rapine one better because the handles are just a bit
longer.  Both work well, and both are authentic.  As I recall the price,
both are about the same price.

Hope this helps some.

Tim Austin

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 11:53:36 -0500
From: paul mueller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Capotes again.

Frank Stewart wrote:
>
> Thanks Paul for the information.
>
> paul mueller wrote:
>
> >   what time frame are you looking for pre 1840 pre 1790 as for the multi
> >  stripe look around 1820 .
>
> Sorry, should have said, 1810 - 1825.
>
> >  in a 1677 letter to witney mills, the purchasers
> > indicated that they wanted the blankets dyed red and blue,as these were
> > the colors that best pleased the indians of virginia.
>
> Were these colors still being used and more importantly used by mountain men
> in 1825?
>
> MB

  most blankets were a white with a color strip ie: black,blue,red
  most common colors of the strip.  here is a part on an invoice
  date january 2nd 1823 hudson bay company(sic)
   29  pairs 3 point yellow red green & blue stripes
.......
   290 pairs 3 point blue bars
........
   10 ps 4 bar broad red striped blanketings
........
   15ps red & blue striped duffills.....

  an other line from  ft. snelling 1822
 one time i offered her a scarlet blanket for a kiss but it was no go,
and off she went home. colors i have run into from 1670 to 1840s with
reference to a capote. blanket, blanketing,or other wools are:
green,white,indigo blue,yellow,black,red,grey,shk blue,olive,drab
(yellows brown),logwood(brownish red), dark olive,scarlet,blue,brown,
 wine red,salisbury,rose,blue-grey,buff,orange,
  as you can see alot of colors were there. most of this is pre 1810.
 if you want to go most common go white with a black strip. as for style
 there are alot of differnt styles but when you get down to it only
 two really different stlyes one square cut one a tailor cut. the
earlist i can find the square cut is in 1856. you cane look at both
 on my web page www.nwtrader.com. one other note most capotes did not
 have an attached hood most hoods were unattached and buttoned on.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 14:43:11 EST
From: TetonTod <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Running ball

DIxie Guns Works has some nice brass molds for around $25.00. or Rapine Bullet
Mold Manufacturing Co. has a nice steel one for $40.00.

Todd Glover

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 18:36:28 EST
From: Traphand <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: keelboat from st.charles mo.

do not know the people you speak of. we left washington to new haven got
caught in a big storm half up river.my hat is off to the man running the
boat,he did a great job.i take it that you are a ill.ranger.i an a mo ranger
out of fort osage along the river. i know a couple of the ill boys.we ahaving
a symposium up in arrow rock mo. march 28 29it will be about fort wayne
in1812,tippicanoe,osage trading house atarrow rock,round table
discussion,political maniplation of the militaryin 1812,nathan boone,osage
indians,amer.cavalry swords 1st infantry at lundys lane. me know and i will
hook you upto my email.   got to run dinner coming,
                                            traphand

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 18:38:49 -0600
From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Gardens

Washtahay-
        'bout time to put the garden in.  Am looking for seeds for bottle
gourds.  Have Mandan red corn seed and Indian melon seed to swap.  Anyone
interested?
        And what do you all plant?
LongWalker c. du B.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 18:38:51 -0600
From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: YellowFeather

Washtahay-
At 12:30 AM 3/4/98 -0600, you wrote:
> I need to make me another pistol as well.
>Will need a source for a .53 cal barrel blank as well. I can make the rest.
        Got a chunk of Douglas .54 out in the garage if that'll work.
LongWalker c. du B.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 20:57:51 EST
From: Mtnman1449 <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Whiskey in the Fur Trade

Need some help on sources.

Am doing a paper (who knows where it will end up going), the focus of which is
Turley's Mill, north of Taos and the home of Taos Lightning.  Exported by
Turley since 1831 it found its way to many forts and rondys. Of course
Turley's Mill was destroyed in 1847 during the Taos Rebellion where a number
of mountain men where either murdered or otherwise involved.  Have some new
information about the mill and would like to place it not only in context with
the Taos Rebellion but also whiskey in the fur trade.

Anyone know of articles that have been done on whiskey in the fur trade and
where they might be found? Anyone know of decendents of Simeon Turley and
their whereabouts?  Has anyone ever come across a drawing, floorplan, layout
or other significant description of the physical mill and distillery?  Does
anyone know of 1830's vintage distillery floorplans showing a typical
distillery and what activities took place in each of the rooms?

Any of this info would be quite helpful.  Am working on this now and trying to
have it put together soon.   Thanks to anyone who can contribute.  Pat Surrena
#1449

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 18:59:10 -0600
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rust Brown Reciept

At 12:30 AM 3/4/98 , Yellowfeather, wrote:
>Howdy all,
> Does anyone know where I can buy
>some slow rust browning solution?

Most any local chemical supplier should do.


1825 Receipt...

To Brown Gun Barrels.

After the barrel is finished rub it over with aqua fortis, or spirit of
salt, diluted with water.  Then lay it by for a week, till a complete coat
of oil is formed.  A little oil is then to be applied, and after rubbing
the surface dry, polish it with a hard brush and a little bees' wax.

another from circa 1865...

To Brown Iron and Steel Objects.

Dissolve 2 parts of crystallized chloride of iron, 2 parts of solid
chloride of antimony, and 1 part of gallic acid, in 4 or 5 parts of water.
With this moisten a piece of sponge or cloth and apply to the object, a
gun-barrel for instance.  Let it dry in the air, and repeat the operation
several times; then wash with water; dry, and rub with boiled linseed-oil.
Objects browned in this way have a very agreeable dead gray appearance, and
the shade deepens according to the number of times the operation is repeated.

end receipts...

Chemical Equivalents

Aqua Fortis = Nitric Acid
Spirit of Salt = Hydrochloric or Muriatic Acid

Chloridizing (converting various metals into a chloride by treating with
chlorine or hydrochloric acid) was developed in the late nineteenth century.

Gallic or Gallotonnic Acid = Nut Gall derivative.

John...


Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 00:33:20 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rust Brown Reciept

as usual john has good data about a slow browning solution .  there is
one out there on the market that is similar to the one jon is giving the
recipe of it is made by Laurel Mountain forge p.o. box 224 Romeo mi 48065
I dont know the cost but it works ok.  it is a slow brown solution and it
also claims to be a degreaser.  have used before but it has a tendency to
pitt and is hard to stop rusting once it is started.  the finish produced
is a soft brown and not a slick brown.    I think i have tried ever type
of browning solution out there on the market-- a lot of the solutions use
ferric cloride and that seems to grow rust brown.  contact me offline and
i can give you many recipies on browning solutions I always use the
reference book "firearms blueing and browning by r. h. angier and get
most of the recipies that i use or mix up.  it is a good start for almost
any mixture needed for browning or blueing.

      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]

On Wed, 04 Mar 1998 18:59:10 -0600 John Kramer <[e-mail]>
writes:
>At 12:30 AM 3/4/98 , Yellowfeather, wrote:
>>Howdy all,
>> Does anyone know where I can buy
>>some slow rust browning solution?
>
>Most any local chemical supplier should do.
>
>
>1825 Receipt...
>
>To Brown Gun Barrels.
>
>After the barrel is finished rub it over with aqua fortis, or spirit
>of
>salt, diluted with water.  Then lay it by for a week, till a complete
>coat
>of oil is formed.  A little oil is then to be applied, and after
>rubbing
>the surface dry, polish it with a hard brush and a little bees' wax.
>
>another from circa 1865...
>
>To Brown Iron and Steel Objects.
>
>Dissolve 2 parts of crystallized chloride of iron, 2 parts of solid
>chloride of antimony, and 1 part of gallic acid, in 4 or 5 parts of
>water.
>With this moisten a piece of sponge or cloth and apply to the object,
>a
>gun-barrel for instance.  Let it dry in the air, and repeat the
>operation
>several times; then wash with water; dry, and rub with boiled
>linseed-oil.
>Objects browned in this way have a very agreeable dead gray
>appearance, and
>the shade deepens according to the number of times the operation is
>repeated.
>
>end receipts...
>
>Chemical Equivalents
>
>Aqua Fortis = Nitric Acid
>Spirit of Salt = Hydrochloric or Muriatic Acid
>
>Chloridizing (converting various metals into a chloride by treating
>with
>chlorine or hydrochloric acid) was developed in the late nineteenth
>century.
>
>Gallic or Gallotonnic Acid = Nut Gall derivative.
>
>John...
>
>
>Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
>John Kramer
>[e-mail]
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 00:09:02 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: keelboat from st.charles mo.

i own a house in st charles and have a lot of friends that are in the
mountain man stuff.  I am a member of the AMM #256 if that tells you how
far back i go. I also have several friends in the ill rangers but they
don't discuss it with me because of some problems back several years when
i threatened to take some hair.  did a little canoe ride back several
years ago about 45 days and ended at the festival of the little hills in
st charles. saw lots of river and and a lot of misquetoes but was a lot
of fun.  do you know dan saterfield or terry mephy. dan lives in old town
and my house is in middle town st charles. a very close friend of mine
vernon smith was a menber of the ill rangers for several years.

hope they get the boat put together and all is well,   drop me a note
once and a while enough for now.

keep your nose to the wind and your eyes along the skyline.

      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]

On Wed, 4 Mar 1998 18:36:28 EST Traphand <[e-mail]> writes:
>do not know the people you speak of. we left washington to new haven
>got
>caught in a big storm half up river.my hat is off to the man running
>the
>boat,he did a great job.i take it that you are a ill.ranger.i an a mo
>ranger
>out of fort osage along the river. i know a couple of the ill boys.we
>ahaving
>a symposium up in arrow rock mo. march 28 29it will be about fort
>wayne
>in1812,tippicanoe,osage trading house atarrow rock,round table
>discussion,political maniplation of the militaryin 1812,nathan
>boone,osage
>indians,amer.cavalry swords 1st infantry at lundys lane. me know and i
>will
>hook you upto my email.   got to run dinner coming,
>
>                                            traphand
>
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 02:37:42 EST
From: Nauga Mok <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Whiskey in the Fur Trade

In a message dated 98-03-04 23:45:20 EST, you write:

<<  Does
 anyone know of 1830's vintage distillery floorplans showing a typical
 distillery and what activities took place in each of the rooms? >>

Might check with Jim Beam -- they been cookin' whisky since 1795.  One of the
few still existing "period" American distilleries.  They're pretty proud of
their history -- expecialy since they just celebrated their 200th year of
whisky making.

NM

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 02:37:53 EST
From: Nauga Mok <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Running ball

In a message dated 98-03-04 10:17:35 EST, you write:

<< However, I don't have any real good sources on what the molds were like at
 that point.  Has any body seen something they could reccomend?
  >>
Rapine makes what you want.  Tad pricy compared to the brass molds Dixie Gun
Works sells (about $10 higher), but much higher quality than DGW.  I have both
brands & of the 2 DGW molds I have, one is off size -- supposed to be a .440,
but throws .428 - .431 -- quite a bit undersized.  The .490 from them runs
pretty true to size ( +.002 fluctuation).  Both Rapines I have are dead nutz
on size with less size fluctuation than the DGWs & don't have the dimple in
the bottom the DGWs have so will have full weight that size ball should have.
The DGWs I have have some irregularities in the machining causing some ridging
in the ball's surface -- Rapine has much smoother machining, therefore casts a
smoother ball.  If you just want a mold to stick in your bag & occasionaly run
a few ball by the campfire & do most of your casting at home with your lead
furnace & multiple cavity molds, then the DGW molds will work as a good period
bag mold.  If, on the other hand, you're looking to get only 1 mold to do all
your casting for that size, get the Rapine.  Rapine also makes excelent double
cavity production molds if you don't mind aluminum molds & learn how to use
them -- they work a bit differently than the steel molds.

NM

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 09:00:42 -0500
From: "Scott Allen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gardens

Longwalker,

I have bottle/birdhouse seeds. I tried canteen gourds last year and
they didn't do well. Will try them again this year. What are Indian
melons? You can sure start gardens early out that way. I don't feel
safe until the 1st of May. Repost your snail mail to me and I'll send
you some seeds.


Your most humble servant,
Scott Allen
Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick
Fairplay, MD
http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 09:49:02 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Whiskey in the Fur Trade

>Need some help on sources.
>
>Am doing a paper (who knows where it will end up going), the focus of which is
>Turley's Mill, north of Taos and the home of Taos Lightning.  Exported by
>Turley since 1831 it found its way to many forts and rondys. Of course
>Turley's Mill was destroyed in 1847 during the Taos Rebellion where a number
>of mountain men where either murdered or otherwise involved.  Have some new
>information about the mill and would like to place it not only in context with
>the Taos Rebellion but also whiskey in the fur trade.
>
>Anyone know of articles that have been done on whiskey in the fur trade and
>where they might be found?

There is a good book called _Whiskey Peddler: John Healy, North Frontier
Trader_, by William R. Hunt (1993), which deals in part with his role in
the whiskey trade between Montana and Canada.  It wasn't during the
Rendezvous era, but in the 1860s, after HBC gave up Rupert's Lands in
Alberta, and left a vaccuum which the Canadian government was unable to
fill until the (1874) creation of the Northwest Mounted Police.  Until that
time, the whiskey trade was wide open and unregulated.  American officials
squelched the trade which had operated out of Fort Benton, but traders
simply moved to Alberta and established Fort Hamilton (the precursor to the
city of Calgary) and inticed trading Indians to travel up the Whoop Up
Trail to trade furs, robes, etc for goods and whiskey (Fort Hamilton was
also called Fort Whoop Up).  It is a fascinating story of commerce,
diplomacy, and good old adventure.  The book is well written and well
illustrated with photos and maps.  The publisher is Mountain Press
Publishing, out of Missoula.

Worth the 12.00 price, although I found mine at Half-Price Books.

Cheers,
HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
*************    So Long, Harry    **************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 09:51:50 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Whiskey in the Fur Trade

><< Does anyone know of 1830's vintage distillery floorplans showing a typical
> distillery and what activities took place in each of the rooms? >>
>
>
>Might check with Jim Beam -- they been cookin' whisky since 1795.  One of the
>few still existing "period" American distilleries.  They're pretty proud of
>their history -- expecialy since they just celebrated their 200th year of
>whisky making.
>
>NM


Beam's website is www.jimbeam.com

Yahoo has a good list of other whiskey websites at
http://www.yahoo.com/Business_and_Economy/Companies/Drinks/Alcoholic/Whiskey
/

HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
*************    So Long, Harry    **************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 10:50:00 -0700
From: "Lee Cardon"<[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Running ball

Anybody have a phone number for the Rapine company?

Thanks...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 11:02:17 -0700
From: William Metcalfe <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Soapmaking

Well Jim,

    You got another something started around the cabin now.  Made a
small batch of soap from the information found on the link you
provided.  Also, in the information, is a table of numbers for use in
substituting fats.  In place of dripping ashes (percolating water
through a box of ashes) to obtain the lye and then cooking with an
uncertain amount of fat, I chose to use a lye that had already been
concentrated (Red Devil).  Also, I substituted some vegetable oil and
coconut oil for some of the tallow using the numbers in the table.  You
don't have to cook these recipes at all - they are done at about 85 F
verses the 125 F recommended in the link site.  I found that it's the
coconut oil in "Kirks" cold water Castile that provides the lather.  You
are suppose-to wait 3 or 4 weeks before using to allow the soap to
become milder but just had to try mine the other day (6 days).  I'm very
pleased with the results and will be mixing up a different recipe this
afternoon.  By-the-way, I used lard in place of tallow for a portion of
the fat.  It's the lard or tallow that caused the objectionable scent we
hear about and may have experienced.  You can cook-up a concentrated
brew  of pine needles, sage, or other plants to add to cover most meat
scent.  It's easy and fun and as usual comes with the satisfaction you
get when making things yourself.

Jim Lindberg wrote:

> I was out surfing and found this soapmaking page, I have no ties.
>
> http://members.aol.com/oelaineo/soapmaking.html



- --
William Metcalfe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 13:05:58 EST
From: RR1LA <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Running ball

>From personal experience, the Dixie Molds are NOT very precision. Found that
mine is slightly oversized, and that it also produces circular ridges on the
ball. Also, there is a flat spot on one side of the ball.  The balls I have
seen run from Rapine molds have appeared to be perfect.  Like many things we
buy in life, it seems you get what you pay for.    PJ

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 15:22:05 EST
From: [e-mail] (Richard D Heyen)
Subject: MtMan-List: Re:  Rust Brown Reciept

It is my understanding that the best browning results are achieved not by
one application, but by repeated applications and cleanings. The more
times you brown it and clean it of. The better your brown will be. I
highly recomend Foxfire 5. It covers browning and more, plus it should be
easy to find.
            Sincerely,
                Jack Scratch

Drew Heyen
[e-mail]


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