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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #25 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Thursday, February 19 1998 Volume 01 : Number 025 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 05:35:51 -0800 From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Tipi/Pyramid tent documentation. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3C2F.1331C440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ScanBear: most people are polite and wouldn't come and say anything about anything. Also most haven't researched enough to feel comfortable to discuss any subject. Over the years I have found out that many people don't read except magazines and not good research books. Sometime reading captions under picture isn't enough either. You have to be careful how you approach people about their gear, I fell that I have research enough to hold my own. I usually ask what time frame that they are portraying and what their persona is. Believe me a lot of people I talk to don't know what persona is. But I guess I am more forward My brothers have a tendency to talk about something and don't tell the people about their problems with their gear. Later Jon Towns - ---------- : From: Addison O. Miller <sean@naplesnet.com> : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Tipi/Pyramid tent documentation. : Date: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 8:55 PM : : I think its kinda funny that at the Alafia River Ronny in Jan, there were : ALL sorts of tents... from Marques, to tipis, to wall tents, to pyramid, : etc... on and on... everything you can think of was there. That I know of, : no one came up to anybody and told them that their tent was not "period". : We were all there to have fun, and have fun we did <grin>... : : SeanBear : (aka Addison Miller) : - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3C2F.1331C440 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">ScanBear: most people are polite = and wouldn't come and say anything about anything. Also most = haven't researched enough to feel comfortable to discuss any subject. = Over the years I have found out that many people don't read except = magazines and not good research books. Sometime reading captions = under picture isn't enough either. You have to be careful how you = approach people about their gear, I fell that I have research = enough to hold my own. I usually ask what time frame that they are = portraying and what their persona is. Believe me a lot of people I = talk to don't know what persona is. But I guess I am more forward = My brothers have a tendency to talk about something and don't tell the = people about their problems with their gear. Later Jon Towns = ---------- : From: Addison O. Miller = <sean@naplesnet.com> : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Tipi/Pyramid tent = documentation. : Date: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 8:55 PM : : = I think its kinda funny that at the Alafia River Ronny in Jan, there = were : ALL sorts of tents... from Marques, to tipis, to wall tents, = to pyramid, : etc... on and on... everything you can think of was = there. That I know of, : no one came up to anybody and told = them that their tent was not "period". : We were all there = to have fun, and have fun we did <grin>... : : = SeanBear : (aka Addison Miller) : </body></html> - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3C2F.1331C440-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 07:49:27 -0700 From: Vic Barkin <Victor.Barkin@NAU.EDU> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Beating dead horses and pyramid tents-Reply >A summary of references for wedge tents: >A. J. Miller paintings that show what looks like a wedge tent ("Our Camp", >"Crossing the River:moonllight" 1836) > >Uh, at the moment, Miller is the only wedge tent reference I can recall. >Did anyone cite any other references for wedge tents that I missed? > >For the record, I don't use either type of tent when I can avoid it ! > Dean, I seem to recall reading somewhere that Bill Sublette ordered segmented poles for his tent(s). Don't recall if the tents themselves were identified, Anybody know the resource? Barkin Dawg Vic "Barkin Dawg" Barkin #1534 "Aux aliments du pays!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:37:23 -0500 From: hawknest4@juno.com (Michael Pierce) Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Beating dead horses and pyramid tents-Reply great summery of the information that has been gleamed from the groop. its now decision time for those who want a pyramid tent or what. a square piece of canvis has always worked well for me along with basic woods lore. I can use my lodge when i want to show off or have room for a group and i know both are historical and period correct. "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(813) 771-1815 On Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:17:17 -0700 Dean Rudy <drudy@xmission.com> writes: > >This has been an interesting thread - but I'd like to observe that >that >it's pointless to debate whether a particular style of tent should or >should not be used at living history activities. Remember, e-mail >list >subscribers portray a wide range of historical personnas, in different >time >periods and geographic regions, and belong to a variety of >organizations >with different rules and standards of authenticity. > >What is valuable, though, is to share what historical information we >have >and let each person make their own decisions if an item is appropriate >for >their activites. > > >As for Pyramid tents, a quick summary of the references I've heard >mentioned so far: >Francis Parkman's Journals, on the Oregon Trail in 1846 (mentions >single >pole tents, pg 1-425). >Susan Magofin's Diary, 1846, Santa Fe Trail (pg?) >A. J. Miller painting that shows what looks like a pyramid tent >(Provo's >tent, in "Catching Up", 1837). > >Has anyone mentioned Sage yet? >Sage, Rufus. Rocky Mountain Life. page 37. On his way up the Platte >in >1841, Sage make specific reference to a "small pyramid-shaped tent" in >camp. > > >A summary of references for wedge tents: >A. J. Miller paintings that show what looks like a wedge tent ("Our >Camp", >"Crossing the River:moonllight" 1836) > >Uh, at the moment, Miller is the only wedge tent reference I can >recall. >Did anyone cite any other references for wedge tents that I missed? > >For the record, I don't use either type of tent when I can avoid it ! > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >Dean Rudy AMM#1530 Email: drudy@xmission.com >Park City, Utah WWW: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/amm.html > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:28:13 -0500 From: "Scott Allen" <allen@blueridge-ef.SAIC.COM> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Kentucky frontiersmen Bradley, Check out my homepage listed below and you will find several links in our area to help you along with your search. If you have specific questions I would be glad to help. I'm only about 2 hrs east of you and grew up in your area. Your most humble servant, Scott Allen Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick Fairplay, MD http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:28:28 From: Carlson Wagonlit Travel <travel@turbonet.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #21 >Tom Sherman wrote: >> >> i would like info on idaho events this year or any others in montana or >> wyoming need something to look forward to only three more months of >> winter left here.... Tom, You can drop me a note as well for info about the North Idaho Ronnys up around the Palouse region. Matt Mitchell Palouse Hills Muzzleloaders Moscow, Idaho travel@turbonet.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:26:22 -0700 From: "Sickler, Louis L" <louis.l.sickler@lmco.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Dead Horses & Tipis Ho the List !! Someone mentioned cutting up leather tipis into smaller pieces for summer shelters. This begs the question : What time period would be appropriate for CANVAS tipis ?? Seems to me that in the early 1800's, tipis would have been made of leather. Could be that canvas tipis are as late in the rendezvous period as a pyramid. Just a thought. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:50:25 EST From: EmmaPeel2@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Interested in Bent Brothers etc. Was in Taos about a week ago to do research, and enjoyed the Kit Carson and Padre Martinez museums very much. However, when I went to the professed "Governor Bent Home and Museum" I was somewhat taken aback. The house is less a museum than a curio shop - two headed sheep and the like. The only artifacts belonging to Governor Bent and his family were a leather chest and some pictures, none conserved, all dusty, and shoved in some corner. The famous "hole in the wall" that his family used to dig out the adobe when under attack in 1847 is still there - as is the poker. The poker could easily by stolen, as it just leans against a wall. Half seriously, we inquired if we could purchase the property in hopes of turning it into a genuine (and respectful) museum to the mountain men, but the gentleman handling the cash register did not think it was for sale. How DOES an interested citizen go about nominating sites with extreme historic significance for Federally protected Historic Sites? And, as the house is privately owned, am I totally out of line? Thanks.. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:35:37 -0700 From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: MtMan-List: Gartering & crooked knives David, I can't provide a lot more details on gartering than I did in my last posting. However, the names of the different varieties of gartering suggests that they had different patterns (eg. Scotch gartering, London gartering, Turkey gartering, "none-so-pretties".) Also, if you've learned to finger weave, that seems a very likely type of historic gartering also. Marius Barbeau's study of the ceinture flechee (voyageur sash) found that many of the old people still doing fingerweaving at the time of his study (1930's, IIRC) were using it to make garters, not sashes. As for crooked knives, if you're looking, you might try Lee Valley Tools in Ottawa. They're online (sorry, don't have the address handy--search at www.altavistacanada.com), and they carry "Austrian Carver's Hooks" which look suspiciously similar to crooked knives, in left- and right- handled models. They also carry an amazing array of tools for building log homes, and some nifty reproductions of wrought iron nails and brads (yes, they all look the same, but none of them look like modern wire-cut nails). Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:36:16 -0700 From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: MtMan-List: Tents and "historically correct" Someone asked for documentation on wedge tents and someone else was discussing tipis. Many moons ago, I did some research on historic tents of the W. Canadian fur trade (1774-1821), and published the results in Northwest Journal Vol. VI. In a nutshell, there is good documentation for both wedge tents and tipis being used by the fur traders of the HBC & NWC. In fact, a Rindisbacher painting shows bell-backed wedges being used by the Selkirk settlers on Lake Winnipeg (see Peter Newman's _Caesars of the Wilderness_ for the picture, "Cold Night Camp on Lake Winipici"). Now, just before I duck, I'd like to talk about "historically correct" in general. The phrase "historically correct" is such a loaded term. It should never be seen as a black or white thing. Really, it's all just a question of how much evidence you've been able to find, and how good that evidence is for the persona and period that you are portraying.The further away your evidence is, in time and space, from your character, the weaker it is. Let's suppose you're trying to find evidence of 'X' being used in the Rocky Mountain fur trade in year 'Y'. Evidence of item 'X' being used in England is not as strong as evidence of item X being used in the USA. Evidence of 'X' being used in the eastern fur trade is not as strong as evidence of 'X' being used in the Rocky Mountain fur trade. Evidence of 'X' being used in the Rocky Mountain fur trade in year Y+20 is not as strong as evidence of 'X' in year Y+10, or, even better, year Y-10. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's all a matter of degrees, and new evidence will turn up all the time. Sometimes you'll even have to throw out old evidence you once thought was good. But if you picture yourself working your way up a ladder (with the occasional setback thrown in), you'll have a much more realistic view of "historical correctness"--it's a journey with a destination that you may not recognize once you arrive (if you ever do). But it's a fun trip! As you find more and more evidence of 'X' in a wide variety of sources directly relevant to your study area (eg. journals, inventories, archeological finds), your confidence & knowledge about 'X' will grow. Trying to find 'X' can become like a scavenger hunt; a passing mention of 'X' in an otherwise dull text can make it more exciting. Of course, you should also keep your eyes peeled for U, V, W, & Z--never know when you might want to use _them_! "It's so simple & effective, they must've done it" and similar expressions--sorry, but not necessarily. My standard rebuttal to this is one word : trousers. Men wore them, women didn't. Why not? Women certainly could have--they had the technology, but there were cultural reasons that kept them from doing so. Another example : crusie & Betty lamps. A crusie is a very simple oil- or fat-burning lamp. It's a small round metal pan with a lip/spout (picture a restaurant tin teapot cut down till it's only an inch high). A piece of cloth wick hangs out of the spout, to keep the end of the wick out of the oil, and burns. Problem : the wick also wicks oil out of the pan, so it drips onto the floor. Solution #1 : a double crusie--a crusie with another larger crusie hanging a few inches below, to catch the drips, so the oil isn't wasted or messy. Solution #2 : the Betty lamp. A wick trough inside the lamp supports the wick so that any oil dripping from the wick drips right into the lamp again. Simple, right? Yet crusies and double-crusies were used for decades (centuries, for all I know) before this simple solution was commonly adopted. These little innovations seem obvious only with hindsight. And now I guess I'll duck! Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred Northwest Journal Online: www.telusplanet.net/public/gottfred/nwj.html agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:50:53 -0500 From: Linda Holley <"tipis@mediaone.net"@Jacksonville.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Alafia Addison is right when he sail no one says anything about the tents we live in at our events. But then no one ever says anything to anyone about tents anywhere unless it is stated in their rules before event takes place. Such as no tipis at a pr-1760 event where tipis did not happen. Or other such requirements. Also Alafia never questions anything about any outfit or camp. And I am talking clothing here. Anything from 1550 to 1890 goes at the Alafia. But remember, we are all having fun and we all know it. I am having fun.......:-) and I did have fun at the 1998 event. Linda Holley ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:32:52 EST From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Western Mountain Man Clothing circa 1816-1825 Dave, >From a guy that has been there and done that......Osborne Russell writes: "his personal dress is a flannel or cotton shirt (if he is fortunate enough to obtain one, if not Antelope skin answers the purpose of over and under shirt), a pair of leather breeches with Blanket or smoked Buffaloe skin, leggins, a coat made of Blanket or Buffaloe robe a hat or Cap of wool, Buffaloe or Otter skin, his hose are pieces of Blanket lapped round his feet which are covered with a pair of Moccassins made of Dressed Deer Elk or Buffaloe skins with his long hair falling loosely over his shoulders complets his uniform...." pg 82. This should get you into most pre-1840 rondys...if ya don't bring a bring a Pyramid tent....<g> Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 05:03:16 GMT From: rparker7@ix.netcom.com (Roy Parker) Subject: Iron Head - was Re: MtMan-List: Re: Tipi On Tue, 17 Feb 1998 21:50:18 -0500, you wrote: > > >dear little beaver > >sorry it took so long to get back to you.i don't know if everybody wants= to >hear the story,but hear goes. >i had only been shooting b/p about 1 season when we were at a b/p = shoot.i >was shooting with a couple of freinds & we were talking & i forgot to = put >powder before the ball.dah!!!!! >someone said let's give it a hot foot,& i said ok.he said that i should >have enough powder to hit the target (30 yrds) & i said i don't think = so.he >then said well then shoot it at that tree (an ironwood,the hardest wood >known to all man kind) so i did.as i pulled the trigger i could see the >ball leave the barrel,it hit the tree & bounced bak & hit me in the >forehead & i said oh s!!! i just shot myself.so there you have it. oh = yea >the only reason i did it on the list is so everyone can have a laugh. >i think i know you but not quite sure.if you had an iguana at the = eastern >in 96 we talked alot about that. email me sometime & we can talk more. > > until our paths cross again > your loyal servant shootshimselfAt 07:54 AM 2/14/98 -0500, you = wrote: >>Dear Shootshimself: I have never replyed on this site either, but I = can't >pass >>up this time.I have been to the Eastern many times and been gate = captain a >>couple. I have never heard the story of how you got your name . Love to >hear it. Darlene, surely one of your friends has already dubbed thee and named thee, in all buckskinner circles, Iron Head, forevermore until you set this name aside or earn a better name. If they haven't, I just did. Glad you came through the experience ok. We have a fine gentleman here in Texas named Iron Chest, who also got his name the hard way. Seems many years ago some targets were set up on the butt end of an old tomahawk block for a pistol shoot. The ball bounced back, caught him in the chest, and scared the $hit out of everyone, not to mention Iron Chest, when he hit the ground. =46ortunately, it was only a bruise, but nobody shoots at the endgrain of a block of wood anymore. As I'm sure eveyone in your neck of the woods will now discharge fouled charges into nice, soft pieces of dirt. =20 Roy Parker, Booshway, 1998 SW Regional Rendezvous, rparker7@ix.netcom.com =46ull SW Rendezvous info available at http://www.sat.net/~robenhaus Buckskinner, Brewer, Blacksmith and other "B"'s, including "BS". ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:39:31 -0700 From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gartering & crooked knives Angela, I have the Lee Valley Tools catatlog, and think it's fantastic. However, even though their crooked knife is of the traditional HBC pattern, it is made with stainless steel and a laminated handle. I'm sure it functions well, but the tradtional authenticity has been sacrificed. But then, the HBC also went to modern materials and handled the last crooked knife they sold with a yellow plastic handle. Guess I'll have to build my own -- as soon as I can figure out how build a forge in the backyard. Dave - -----Original Message----- From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net> To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com <hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 1:15 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Gartering & crooked knives >David, >I can't provide a lot more details on gartering than I did in my last >posting. However, the names of the different varieties of gartering suggests >that they had different patterns (eg. Scotch gartering, London gartering, >Turkey gartering, "none-so-pretties".) Also, if you've learned to finger >weave, that seems a very likely type of historic gartering also. Marius >Barbeau's study of the ceinture flechee (voyageur sash) found that many of >the old people still doing fingerweaving at the time of his study (1930's, >IIRC) were using it to make garters, not sashes. >As for crooked knives, if you're looking, you might try Lee Valley Tools in >Ottawa. They're online (sorry, don't have the address handy--search at >www.altavistacanada.com), and they carry "Austrian Carver's Hooks" which >look suspiciously similar to crooked knives, in left- and right- handled >models. They also carry an amazing array of tools for building log homes, >and some nifty reproductions of wrought iron nails and brads (yes, they all >look the same, but none of them look like modern wire-cut nails). > >Your humble & obedient servant, >Angela Gottfred >agottfre@telusplanet.net > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:55:35 -0700 From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents and "historically correct" I was hangin with ya until ya started talkin about why women didn't wear pants, because I understand that many a bonnie ladd up in your country wore skirts instead of pants. Gets back to this XY business you were talkin about. Some have one X and one Y, and others have one X and two Y's. Think that might explain the skirt and pant confusion, and maybe even the lamp problem as well. The people with just one Y used the Cruise lamp and the people with two Y's used the Betty lamp. I'm not sure if this hypothesis has been properly tested at Oxford, but I've got a nefew over there so I'll ask him to inquire amongst the men of letters if this X and Y business is really valid. I'll report back on this later. - -----Original Message----- From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net> To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com <hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 1:16 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Tents and "historically correct" >Someone asked for documentation on wedge tents and someone else was >discussing tipis. Many moons ago, I did some research on historic tents of >the W. Canadian fur trade (1774-1821), and published the results in >Northwest Journal Vol. VI. In a nutshell, there is good documentation for >both wedge tents and tipis being used by the fur traders of the HBC & NWC. >In fact, a Rindisbacher painting shows bell-backed wedges being used by the >Selkirk settlers on Lake Winnipeg (see Peter Newman's _Caesars of the >Wilderness_ for the picture, "Cold Night Camp on Lake Winipici"). > >Now, just before I duck, I'd like to talk about "historically correct" in >general. The phrase "historically correct" is such a loaded term. It should >never be seen as a black or white thing. Really, it's all just a question of >how much evidence you've been able to find, and how good that evidence is >for the persona and period that you are portraying.The further away your >evidence is, in time and space, from your character, the weaker it is. Let's >suppose you're trying to find evidence of 'X' being used in the Rocky >Mountain fur trade in year 'Y'. Evidence of item 'X' being used in England >is not as strong as evidence of item X being used in the USA. Evidence of >'X' being used in the eastern fur trade is not as strong as evidence of 'X' >being used in the Rocky Mountain fur trade. Evidence of 'X' being used in >the Rocky Mountain fur trade in year Y+20 is not as strong as evidence of >'X' in year Y+10, or, even better, year Y-10. I guess what I'm trying to say >is that it's all a matter of degrees, and new evidence will turn up all the >time. Sometimes you'll even have to throw out old evidence you once thought >was good. But if you picture yourself working your way up a ladder (with the >occasional setback thrown in), you'll have a much more realistic view of >"historical correctness"--it's a journey with a destination that you may not >recognize once you arrive (if you ever do). But it's a fun trip! As you find >more and more evidence of 'X' in a wide variety of sources directly relevant >to your study area (eg. journals, inventories, archeological finds), your >confidence & knowledge about 'X' will grow. Trying to find 'X' can become >like a scavenger hunt; a passing mention of 'X' in an otherwise dull text >can make it more exciting. Of course, you should also keep your eyes peeled >for U, V, W, & Z--never know when you might want to use _them_! > >"It's so simple & effective, they must've done it" and similar >expressions--sorry, but not necessarily. My standard rebuttal to this is one >word : trousers. Men wore them, women didn't. Why not? Women certainly could >have--they had the technology, but there were cultural reasons that kept >them from doing so. Another example : crusie & Betty lamps. A crusie is a >very simple oil- or fat-burning lamp. It's a small round metal pan with a >lip/spout (picture a restaurant tin teapot cut down till it's only an inch >high). A piece of cloth wick hangs out of the spout, to keep the end of the >wick out of the oil, and burns. Problem : the wick also wicks oil out of the >pan, so it drips onto the floor. Solution #1 : a double crusie--a crusie >with another larger crusie hanging a few inches below, to catch the drips, >so the oil isn't wasted or messy. Solution #2 : the Betty lamp. A wick >trough inside the lamp supports the wick so that any oil dripping from the >wick drips right into the lamp again. Simple, right? Yet crusies and >double-crusies were used for decades (centuries, for all I know) before this >simple solution was commonly adopted. These little innovations seem obvious >only with hindsight. > >And now I guess I'll duck! > >Your humble & obedient servant, >Angela Gottfred >Northwest Journal Online: www.telusplanet.net/public/gottfred/nwj.html >agottfre@telusplanet.net > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:04:38 -0800 From: "Gail Carbiener" <carbg@cmc.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Western Mountain Man Clothing circa 1816-1825 Dave: I would like to add - during the winter working (trapping) months would the dress change from that at the rendezvou? Gail ===================================== > What "Pants and Shirts" would one >find on a person working the fur trade in the rocky mountains during the >years stated in the subject line? > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 05:54:40 -0800 From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Tents This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3CFA.DE608540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While looking for a new tent to buy I ran across this www.tentsmiths.com/page38.htm I thought it would for reference. Jon T. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3CFA.DE608540 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">While looking for a new tent to buy I = ran across this www.tentsmiths.com/page38.htm I thought it would for = reference. Jon T. </body></html> - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3CFA.DE608540-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 07:17:32 -0700 From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bent's Fort I'd appreciate learning about how one gets on the volunteer list for historic sites. I don't clearly understand from your message if there's a master list or if each site has it's own volunteer list. Sounds like the good life. Too bad time and money are limiting factors for most of us. Each decade of the 19th Century has it's own attractions and seductions. I'd like to play at being a buffalo hunter. I know places to get the Sharps "Old Reliable" -- just can't find enough buffalo to make a stand. - -----Original Message----- From: Henry B. Crawford <mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 12:48 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Bent's Fort > >> >>Sounds like fun, going to a mid-1840's event at Bent's Fort; sleeping in a >>pyramid tent, carrying a pair of Walker Colts, riding a Santa Fe >>platter-horn saddle, showing off a new Hawken rifle, and listening to Kit >>Carson tell tales about paddling out to an island in the Great Salt Lake in >>an inflatable rubber boat with John C. Fremont. Then, if we get hungry, we >>can ride over to Pueblo and trade some Bent's Fort water melons for some >>bean and cabrito burritoes. After lunch we could rest under the shade of a >>cottonwood tree and watch the Missouri volunteer calvary parade by on their >>way south to spank the Mexican army. Then, as black thunder clouds loom in >>the west, we could beat our horses to get back to Bent's Fort and the >>shelter of our pyramid tents before the rain starts to fall. >> > >That's exactly what I'm going to do come July. I just got my info on >upcoming events that the Park Service is doing at Bent's, and one is the >Santa Fe Trail Encampment July 24-26. Since I'm on their list of approved >volunteers (aka the "A" list), I get invitations to participate. I think >I'll portray a cook's helper this time. Looking forward to that one. See >you on the Arkansas. > >>So many decades to live in, and so little time! To live in the decade with >>the pyramid tent, or to live in a decade before the pyramid tent -- that is >>the question. > >I do both. It's easier that way, and I won't be left out of events for >lack of the proper equipment. I do it all from fur trade to buffalo >soldier (I'm on the Fort Davis list as well.) > >Chers, >HBC > >***************************************** >Henry B. Crawford Curator of History >mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University >806/742-2442 Box 43191 >FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 > WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum >************** "Make it so!" *************** > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:55:33 EST From: Mtnman1449@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Interested in Bent Brothers etc. I too have visited the sites in Taos on many occasions and feelthe same way about the Gov. Bent house--almost to the point of embarrassment. In fact, was there just last weekend including a visit at Turley's mill, where Turley and eight others were massacred just after Gob. Bent. If you are serious about buying or preserving the heritage of the Gov. Bent house, there are probably many avenues to persue. I might suggest, however, starting with Skip Miller, co-director of the Kit Carson museum just a few blocks away. He surely should have some information and likely knows the owners of the gov. Bent house. I hope you are successful. While it's in a beautiful area, it does little to support the history that occurred there. Pat Surrena #1449 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:14:02 EST From: KarmannMan@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: California Mountain Men I live in Northern California, land of bad legislation, and I want to get into Mountain Man type activities including rendezvou's. I would appriciate any information that could come my way on these types of activites in Northern California, and maybee any organizations in the same area. Thanks Matt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:23:46 -0600 (CST) From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Alafia >Addison is right when he sail no one says anything about the tents we >live in at our events. But then no one ever says anything to anyone >about tents anywhere unless it is stated in their rules before event >takes place. Such as no tipis at a pr-1760 event where tipis did not >happen. Or other such requirements. >Also Alafia never questions anything about any outfit or camp. And I am >talking clothing here. Anything from 1550 to 1890 goes at the Alafia. >But remember, we are all having fun and we all know it. I am having >fun.......:-) and I did have fun at the 1998 event. > >Linda Holley What's Alafia? ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ************* So Long, Harry ************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:25:49 -0500 From: Peter Archdale <Peter_Archdale@compuserve.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Archdale info >>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 01:44:43 -0700 >>From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com> >>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Archdale information wanted >>I don't know how far this will get you, but if you don't already know, maybe it will help<< Thank you for replying - you have given me some great leads. May I ask a couple of supplementary questions? >>You might check the Rocky Boy and Fort Belnap membership roles to see i= f you can find people who share your surname<< >>so it might not hurt to check Blackfoot tribal roles for Archdale's.<< Are these available online? How can I check these from England?? Once again, thanks for your help. Peter !^NavFont02F021B0006MGHHIdB928 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:05:06 -0800 From: Dale Nelson <dnelson@wizzards.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gartering & crooked knives David Tippets wrote: > > even though their crooked knife is of the traditional HBC pattern, it is > made with stainless steel and a laminated handle. I'm a horseshoer, and I'm thinking that a crooked knife and a hoof knife are about the same thing. I've never actually held a "crooked knife" but photos of same look just like a hoof knife. Hoof knives are made with wooden handles, come in a couple of sizes, and are made for both the left and right handed horseshoer. You might stop by a feed store or farm supply store and see what you think. Dale Nelson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:21:36 -0800 From: Frank Stewart <MedicineBear@Hawken54.sparks.nv.us> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: California Mountain Men Matt, I live in Nevada but did get a flyer on the Brushy Creek Rendezvous in the Marysville area, May 1,2,&3. The Booshway is called Bonehead and can be reached at 530-589-5549. I'll bet he'll know about Northern Caliprunia, ahhh, I mean California buckskinners. Best to ya, Medicine Bear KarmannMan@aol.com wrote: > I live in Northern California, land of bad legislation, and I want to get into > Mountain Man type activities including rendezvou's. I would appriciate any > information that could come my way on these types of activites in Northern > California, and maybee any organizations in the same area. > Thanks > Matt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:53:26 -0600 (CST) From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bent's Fort >I'd appreciate learning about how one gets on the volunteer list for >historic sites. I don't clearly understand from your message if there's a >master list or if each site has it's own volunteer list. Each site coordinates its own list of volunteers, because different sites have different manpower and historical needs. The phone number to Bent's Fort is 719/383-5023. Talk to their VIP Coordiantor, Greg Holt. They will send you an application. You have to justify your impression and your props. You will also be required to submit photos of yourself dressed in your outfit. The Fort interprets 1846 because that was a pivotal year for the BSV company, mainly because of the War. It was also the year they have the most documentation for, with descriptions from members of Kearny's Army of the West, and eyewitness accounts by Susan Magoffin. The summer event this year will commemorate Kearny's arrival at the end of July 1846. >Sounds like the good life. Too bad time and money are limiting factors for >most of us. Each decade of the 19th Century has it's own attractions and >seductions. I'd like to play at being a buffalo hunter. I know places to >get the Sharps "Old Reliable" -- just can't find enough buffalo to make a >stand. Well, I started living history 18 years ago. In the intervening time I made an effort to try to do as many periods as possible, for professional as well as personal reasons. You'd be surprised how much stuff you can accumulate in 18 years. I do buffalo hunters, Civil War, Buffalo Soldiers, and most any civilian frontier impresion. Of course I do Mountain Man, Santa Fe Trail, Texas Army, etc. Over the past 18 years I have collected or made the equipment needed to do all these impressions correctly. I have enough clothing to outfit about 6 or 7 guys, including Civil War/Early Indian Wars uniform, civilian outfits, 'skins, boots, shoes, socs, and mocs. There is also various knives, tools, lamps, cartridge belts, hats (boy are there hats!) campware, cookware, saddles, bullet molds, tents, and books, books, books and various and sundry other things. Yep you can accumulate a lot in 18 years. But the buffalo are still scarce. Cheers, HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ************* So Long, Harry ************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:37:40 -0500 From: sean@naplesnet.com (Addison O. Miller) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Alafia Refers to the Alafia River Ronnyvous... held each Janurary near central Florida, LAsts for about 11 days. Florida Frontiersmen sponsors it. Check their www page... Addison Miller >>Addison is right when he sail no one says anything about the tents we >>live in at our events. But then no one ever says anything to anyone >>about tents anywhere unless it is stated in their rules before event >>takes place. Such as no tipis at a pr-1760 event where tipis did not >>happen. Or other such requirements. >>Also Alafia never questions anything about any outfit or camp. And I am >>talking clothing here. Anything from 1550 to 1890 goes at the Alafia. >>But remember, we are all having fun and we all know it. I am having >>fun.......:-) and I did have fun at the 1998 event. >> >>Linda Holley > > >What's Alafia? > >***************************************** >Henry B. Crawford Curator of History >mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University >806/742-2442 Box 43191 >FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 > WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum >************* So Long, Harry ************** > > ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #25 ****************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.