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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #17 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Wednesday, February 11 1998 Volume 01 : Number 017 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 06:29:42 GMT From: rparker7@ix.netcom.com (Roy Parker) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Tipi On Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:49:49 EST, you wrote: >Hoy, the net! > >I appreciate all the knowledge you hivernants have shared with this here >pilgrim! Let me hit you up for one more... > >My wife and I go to a week long camp every year with my work. I am = afraid I >have no choice in this one! Every body else has "tin tipis" with all = the >fixin's... we have a small car. With my love of buckskinning, and two = camp >outs or more each year, we are thinking of getting a tipi for it. (We = don't >have kids yet but plan to start on that one soon enough!) So here are = my >questions: > >What are the best tipis at a good price? > >How can we move them around with a small car? > >And the most important one... HOW DO WE KEEP OUT MOSQUITOS AND OTHER = PESTS? > >Your advice is appreciated as usual. I've read a few posts already replying. Jon Towns reply darn near ruptured me. I was in mid-swallow when I read it. Still mopping homebrew out of the keyboard. I have at one time or the other owned a Panther 10x16 wall tent, a 16 ft Nomadics tipi, an 18 ft Blue Star tipi, and currently have a 10 ft diamond (home made), a 12 ft. diamond (Panther) and an 18 ft Panther tipi, along with a 12 ft Panther Hunter's lodge. =20 There are many good brands out there. A friend of mine has had a Spring Valley lodge for 10 years or more. His poles are about shot, but the lodge is still in good shape. Check out C&S Traders also. I don't own any of their merchandice, but have talked to folks who do. There are undoubtedly other good suppliers, but I have no experience with them, one way or the other. =46or simplicity of hauling for more than one person, I gotta recommend the 12 ft Hunter's lodge. It is extremely roomy for two adullts, and you can get by with one 8-9 foot pole. Two 10 foot poles used externally give you much more usable interior space. =20 But for comfort and prestige (at least in the owner's mind), there's nothing like a tipi. You can build a fire in it to cook, stay warm, has lots of room, and you can get an awful lot of people in there for a party. But for pure practicality, ease of setup, I got to admit that hunter's lodge has everything beat I've tried. If you're set on a tipi, here's my experience, and it's a rather long post I've hauled tipi poles 3 different ways. Pick your medicine. The first was when I had a full size pickup truck with an aluminum capper top. I wouldn't try this with a capper that did not have interior aluminum ribs. A set of poles can run 350 lbs when real wet. I had this set up for canoes, originally. I had two 2x4 running lengthwise along the capper edge for 8 feet. I had 2-3 2x4 running crosswise at the front of the capper, and 1 2x4 crosswise at the back. All this wood was bolted through the metal capper frame in several places to hold it. The trick to this was to pile all the poles together in the middle, wrap the rope around them in the back, pull them into a bundle, and tie them off to both sides in the back. Then I did the same in the front of the capper, and took the excess rope and whipped it about 10 or so times very tightly around the poles from the front of the capper to the tips of the poles to pull them into a bundle. Next step was to retighten the back, and tie it off to the bumper so the poles were just resting on the 2x4 at the front of the capper. Then, go to the front, and tie the bundle to the front bumper straight down while putting some tension on it. That front bundle now acts like a spring pole, with each pole tip reinforcing the others. Never broke a tip this way on the road. Doing all this takes only slightly longer than it has taken me to type it. It's pretty simple (I mean, even I could do it), and I used this method for several years until I got rid of my truck. I upgraded to a third-hand Suburban, but it was the lap of luxury for me. So I found a used boat trailer, and found I could convert it to a bed 12 feet by 6 and a half feet with 3 foot sidewalls, so I took a lot more stuff, and my setup time stretched to some 4-5 hours due to all the stuff, and I got a hernia from loading/unloading it. I was saved from this contraption when returning from the 1991(?) SW in Newnata, Arkansas carrying my tipi, all the gear for 12 people, and two complete blacksmith shops. Twelve miles short of the Texas border, and half way across the Red River bridge, the axle on the trailer snapped. After what seemed to be several years later we finally got the rig stopped and on the side of the road.=20 My partner in crime took the suburban to Texarkana, rented a 12 ft closed U-haul trailer, and we proceeded to load everything into it. I was reconciled to having to leave the poles, since there were no tie points to tie them to on the trailer. It was close to midnight at the time, and both of us had to be at work (some 6 hour drive away) by 8am the next morning. In desperation, I grabbed the 3 foam rubber mattresses, tossed them on top of the Suburban, tossed all the poles in the middle, and wrapped them all together like explained above. I tied the back tightly to the bumper braces on both sides, and did the same to the front. Ya know what? It worked great, and I used this method for poles for several years after. If it doesn't rain, ya can also sleep on the foam. I have a friend who has a short wheelbase full-size Dodge van. He uses heavy duty luggage racks and hauls his poles on these. This works pretty well now that he's figured out how to keep the racks from loosening up on long trips and falling off. Bottom line is you need a new vehicle or trailer for a tipi. Cover, liner and ozan pack up to the size of a grocery cart measured from the wheels to the top of the cart. If you're planning a family, you're gonna need a bigger vehicle or trailer to haul all the baby stuff anyway, even to go visit folks 10 miles away. Trust me on this. The only thing that takes more plunder than rendezvous is a baby. =46or a weekend, the diamond is my first choice if going alone, and the hunter's lodge if I have company. For a full week, the tipi is well worth the hassle of transporting it and setting it up. =20 And frankly, I think there is absolutely no more wonderful feeling in this world than curling up with and holding the woman you love as you both watch the full moon rise across the smoke flaps. Roy Parker rparker7@ix,netcom.com, Booshway 1998 SouthWest Regional = Rendezvous, Inc. Buckskinner, Brewer, Blacksmith, and several other "B's", incuding BS.... SW Rendezvous info at http://www.sat.net/~robenhaus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:58:30 EST From: JSeminerio@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: re:Tipi the best tent ever go find Al & Joyce Levin from Spring Valley Lodges get the one pole. It is a much later style of tent but you won't belive the room and the convenience. You can sleeve the ten foot pole and easily get it into a small car. Tell them I sent you from this board they go to all the voos and they are great people (608) 897-tipi watch your topknot John Seminerio ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:28:08 EST From: RR1LA@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Tipi John, Contact Panther Primitives in West Virginia (1-800-Panther) and get a catalog. I think it's two bucks, but whatever it costs, it's worth it, and is refunded with your first order. It has pictures, sizes, construction techniques, etc, for all different types of tents and tipis. Also a great selection of fu-fa-rah, accoutrements and other really good stuff. Regards, PJ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:28:49 -0700 (MST) From: earlalan@srv.net (Allen Hall) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: California and Trapping/hunting >> >Was wondering if the economy of Idaho is so good that people from out of >state are moving in? If this isn't appropriate for this list then e-mail >me in private. Thanks. > >TedHart@juno.com The economy in Idaho is horrible. It's full of racist, bigots, militia, pick anyone else you don't like or doesn't like you. The weather is horrible, 60 feet of snow every winter, summers so hot it nearly stopped the old folks on the Oregon Trail. The education is primitive, and classes overcrowded and taught by rednecks. Don't come out, you'll hate it. Tell all your friends to not come. REALLY. I only live here because I have to. Oh, and well, because I can shoot at a range 5 minutes from the 3rd biggest town in the state. And because I can fish in the river that runs through town, and can trap beaver in that same river (the Snake) and because the 2nd and 3rd biggest towns are roughly tied in population at 50,000 folks. And a few other details like that. Seriously, Idaho is a GREAT place, but there isn't a whole lot of big money jobs. PS the first part of this was not to offend anyone. REALLY Any questions, e-mail privately if you wish. Allen Hall in Fort Hall country (SE Idaho) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 23:09:02 -0800 From: "Gary A. Bell" <micropt@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Time, touchwood, & Thompson Hello the Camp! What is "touchwood"? Is it some sort of regionally available resinous wood (fatwood) or wood treated in some way? Angela Gottfred wrote: > <a snip in Time here> > Touchwood-- > A while back, someone briefly mentioned that on the frontier, > touchwood was > used to start fires much more frequently than charred cloth. I > would like > to add my hearty agreement to this. In my reading of Canadian > fur trade > journals & memoirs (1774-1821), I have found : > 7 references to touchwood > 1 reference to "tatters hanging from grey birch" > 1 reference to charcoal > 1 reference to punk or "dried rotten wood" > > <snip stuff on Thompson -- I read and enjoyed the reference, > thanks!> > > Your humble & obedient servant, > Angela Gottfred > > agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:00:13 -0500 From: kat <kat@janrix.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Re: Tipi I am not bad mouthing Panther by any stretch. They have a wonderful catalog. However -- I tried on two different occasions to order lodges from them. Very basic off the shelf pieces. I was told a minimum of 16 WEEKS before they could ship the first time, and a minimum of 12 WEEKS the second time I tried to order from them. I then went to RK Lodges. I personally have 3 of them. They have excellent workmanship and prices. I haven't had to wait more than 7 or 10 DAYS to have the tent in my hands. They are the first people I try and deal with. 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M@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````-H4```$````!`````````!X`0H (( 8` M`````, ```````!&`````#>%```!`````0`````````>`$. "" &``````# M````````1@`````XA0```0````$`````````'@`]``$````%````4D4Z( `` ,```#``TT_3<``- ; ` end ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:34:32 -0500 From: "Scott Allen" <allen@blueridge-ef.SAIC.COM> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Time, touchwood, & Thompson Gary, Touchwood is a gray to gray/brown horseshoe shaped fungus that grows on the side of trees. I've mostly found it on old maple or oak. You char it as you would cloth. It holds a spark much longer and hotter than anything else I've seen. Your most humble servant, Scott Allen Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick Fairplay, MD http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:57:03 -0500 From: Todd and Debbi Wraga <debhomes@vermontel.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Snowshoes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------C0B90F0DF618FB314BD33F4E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I came across this email and am wondering if you might be able to help me out. A friend of mines daughter wants to make a pair of snowshoes, however we are having a difficult time finding any patterns or instructions. I was wondering if you might be able to forward on any information. 802-362-0967 Fax Debbi Wraga RR 1 Box 2129 Pawlet, VT 05761 Thanks for your help! Debbi Ellis (paladin@agis.ag.net) Fri, 9 Aug 1996 15:03:56 -0400 Messages sorted by: [ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ] Next message: Ellis: "AMM-List: Books for Randy" Previous message: john and jessica sweet: "AMM-List: Re:" Maybe in reply to: Ellis: "AMM-List: Snowhoes.." Next in thread: Ellis: "Re: AMM-List: Snowhoes.." At 12:37 PM 8/3/96 -0700, you wrote: >>Vic, >> >>I'd deeply appreciate any help you could provide on the making of the >>snowshoes. I look forward to reading about your experiences in the making of >>snowshoes. >> >Sounds like you came to the right place, I'll try your e-mail on monday. If >iI can't get through, I snail it over to you. Looks like you'll have plenty >of help around. Let us know how it's going when you start. Got your package today. Good deal of excellent information on snowshoe building. Deeply appreciate the help. Please let me know if I can ever return the favor. I''l let you know how its going with the snowshoes. Regards, Ellis Delahoy - --------------C0B90F0DF618FB314BD33F4E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from localhost (localhost) by eureka.vermontel.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with internal id MAA20690; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:48:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:48:35 -0500 (EST) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON> Message-Id: <199802101748.MAA20690@eureka.vermontel.com> To: <debhomes@vermontel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="MAA20690.887132915/eureka.vermontel.com" Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: agis.ag.net: host not found) Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) This is a MIME-encapsulated message - --MAA20690.887132915/eureka.vermontel.com The original message was received at Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:48:29 -0500 (EST) from r-64.vermontel.com [207.1.45.69] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- <paladin@agis.ag.net> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 <paladin@agis.ag.net>... Host unknown (Name server: agis.ag.net: host not found) - --MAA20690.887132915/eureka.vermontel.com Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; eureka.vermontel.com Received-From-MTA: DNS; r-64.vermontel.com Arrival-Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:48:29 -0500 (EST) Final-Recipient: RFC822; paladin@agis.ag.net Action: failed Status: 5.1.2 Remote-MTA: DNS; agis.ag.net Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:48:35 -0500 (EST) - --MAA20690.887132915/eureka.vermontel.com Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: <debhomes@vermontel.com> Received: from vermontel.com (r-64.vermontel.com [207.1.45.69]) by eureka.vermontel.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20677 for <paladin@agis.ag.net>; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:48:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34E09446.EBFECE64@vermontel.com> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:54:14 -0500 From: Todd and Debbi Wraga <debhomes@vermontel.com> Reply-To: debhomes@vermontel.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paladin@agis.ag.net Subject: Snowshoes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ellis- I came across this email and am wondering if you might be able to help me out. A friend of mines daughter wants to make a pair of snowshoes, however we are having a difficult time finding any patterns or instructions. I was wondering if you might be able to forward on any information. 802-362-0967 Fax Debbi Wraga RR 1 Box 2129 Pawlet, VT 05761 Thanks for your help! Debbi Ellis (paladin@agis.ag.net) Fri, 9 Aug 1996 15:03:56 -0400 Messages sorted by: [ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ] Next message: Ellis: "AMM-List: Books for Randy" Previous message: john and jessica sweet: "AMM-List: Re:" Maybe in reply to: Ellis: "AMM-List: Snowhoes.." Next in thread: Ellis: "Re: AMM-List: Snowhoes.." At 12:37 PM 8/3/96 -0700, you wrote: >>Vic, >> >>I'd deeply appreciate any help you could provide on the making of the >>snowshoes. I look forward to reading about your experiences in the making of >>snowshoes. >> >Sounds like you came to the right place, I'll try your e-mail on monday. If >iI can't get through, I snail it over to you. Looks like you'll have plenty >of help around. Let us know how it's going when you start. Got your package today. Good deal of excellent information on snowshoe building. Deeply appreciate the help. Please let me know if I can ever return the favor. I''l let you know how its going with the snowshoes. Regards, Ellis Delahoy - --MAA20690.887132915/eureka.vermontel.com-- - --------------C0B90F0DF618FB314BD33F4E-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:12:15 -0700 From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: MtMan-List: In tents mosquito discussion? I found a number of references to light cloth face masks to keep off mosquitoes (especially when sleeping) in research for a Northwest Journal article many moons ago. (Remember Lewis & Clark's 'biers'?) Has anyone actually tried this? As for tents, my vote goes to wedge tents; easy to set up, and documented. I haven't found any documentation for marquees or pyramid tents for my area (1774-1821, W. Canada). How about you Mountain Men? BTW, I'm starting to make a point of putting up our tent--it's most definitely historic women's work! Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:26:53 -0800 From: "Jim or Maryellen Majoros" <cats@ncweb.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: smallpox This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BD3651.7647A6A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable - -----Original Message----- From: Jim or Maryellen Majoros <cats@ncweb.com> To: hist_text@xmission.com <hist_text@xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 4:24 PM Subject: smallpox hello, We are doing a project on smallpox and we were wondering if you had = pictures on smallpox and the history of smallpox. PLEASE WRITE BACK = A.S.A.P!!! Our projects due the 19th of febuary 98' THANK = YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Email me back at cats@ncweb.com - ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BD3651.7647A6A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 = HTML//EN"> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-----Original = Message----- From:=20 Jim or Maryellen Majoros <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:cats@ncweb.com">cats@ncweb.com</A>> To: <A=20 href=3D"mailto:hist_text@xmission.com">hist_text@xmission.com</A> <<A = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@xmission.com">hist_text@xmission.com</A>> = Date:=20 Tuesday, February 03, 1998 4:24 PM Subject:=20 smallpox </DIV> <DIV>hello,</DIV> <DIV> We are doing a project on = smallpox and we=20 were wondering if you had pictures on smallpox and the history of = smallpox.=20 PLEASE WRITE BACK A.S.A.P!!! Our projects due the 19th of febuary 98' = THANK=20 YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</DIV> <DIV><FONT=20 size=3D2> &nbs= p; = ; =20 Email me back at cats@ncweb.com</DIV></BODY></HTML> - ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BD3651.7647A6A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:22:15 -0700 From: Vic Barkin <Victor.Barkin@NAU.EDU> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Snowshoes Debbi, I'll get back to you on this in a few days after I dig out my resources. One thing. Since you live in Vermont, you may see how close you asre to the Tubbs company. they make mostly the aluminum type now, but still may be in the traditional snowshoe business to a limited extent. If I were within ahundred miles, I's sure try to visit their manufactuing facility and see how the masters do it. Vic >I came across this email and am wondering if you might be able to help >me out. A friend of mines daughter wants to make a pair of snowshoes, >however we are having a difficult time finding any patterns or >instructions. I was wondering if you might be able to forward on any >information. > >802-362-0967 Fax >Debbi Wraga >RR 1 Box 2129 >Pawlet, VT 05761 > >Thanks for your help! > >Debbi > > >Ellis (paladin@agis.ag.net) >Fri, 9 Aug 1996 15:03:56 -0400 > > Messages sorted by: [ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ] > Next message: Ellis: "AMM-List: Books for Randy" > Previous message: john and jessica sweet: "AMM-List: Re:" > Maybe in reply to: Ellis: "AMM-List: Snowhoes.." > Next in thread: Ellis: "Re: AMM-List: Snowhoes.." > >At 12:37 PM 8/3/96 -0700, you wrote: >>>Vic, >>> >>>I'd deeply appreciate any help you could provide on the making of the >>>snowshoes. I look forward to reading about your experiences in the >making of >>>snowshoes. >>> >>Sounds like you came to the right place, I'll try your e-mail on >monday. If >>iI can't get through, I snail it over to you. Looks like you'll have >plenty >>of help around. Let us know how it's going when you start. > >Got your package today. Good deal of excellent information on snowshoe >building. Deeply appreciate the help. Please let me know if I can ever >return the favor. I''l let you know how its going with the snowshoes. > >Regards, > >Ellis Delahoy > > Vic "Barkin Dawg" Barkin #1534 "Aux aliments du pays!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:02:28 From: Carlson Wagonlit Travel <travel@turbonet.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Re: Tipi <snip>. I then went to RK Lodges. I personally >have 3 of them. They have excellent workmanship and prices. I haven't had >to wait more than 7 or 10 DAYS to have the tent in my hands. They are the >first people I try and deal with. > >Kat Hargus >Owner, Making Time >www.makingtime.com > Kat, Do you have the address/phone/e-mail/internet address to RK Lodges. It's time to buy a new one and I'm shopping around. Thanks. Matt Mitchell Palouse Hills Muzzleloaders Moscow, Idaho travel@turbonet.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:14:20 -0500 From: sean@naplesnet.com (Addison O. Miller) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: In tents mosquito discussion? <chuckles> Ain't gonna touch that remark with a 10 foot center pole... <grin> Mouse would kill me if I did... SeanBear <SNIP> >BTW, I'm starting to make a point of putting up our tent--it's most definitely historic women's work!> > >Your humble & obedient servant, >Angela Gottfred >agottfre@telusplanet.net > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 22:43:54 -0800 From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Tipi This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3675.5D61B580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Roy I am glad you enjoyed my story, I have a lot of fun telling it over the years. The only thing I regret is that I didn't get a picture of it. I haven't seen my friend Jerry that I went with in 25 years but I bet He is telling the story and enjoying it like I have. Later Jon Towns - ---------- From: Roy Parker <rparker7@ix.netcom.com> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Tipi Date: Monday, February 09, 1998 10:29 PM On Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:49:49 EST, you wrote: >Hoy, the net! > >I appreciate all the knowledge you hivernants have shared with this here >pilgrim! Let me hit you up for one more... > >My wife and I go to a week long camp every year with my work. I am afraid I >have no choice in this one! Every body else has "tin tipis" with all the >fixin's... we have a small car. With my love of buckskinning, and two camp >outs or more each year, we are thinking of getting a tipi for it. (We don't >have kids yet but plan to start on that one soon enough!) So here are my >questions: > >What are the best tipis at a good price? > >How can we move them around with a small car? > >And the most important one... HOW DO WE KEEP OUT MOSQUITOS AND OTHER PESTS? > >Your advice is appreciated as usual. I've read a few posts already replying. Jon Towns reply darn near ruptured me. I was in mid-swallow when I read it. Still mopping homebrew out of the keyboard. I have at one time or the other owned a Panther 10x16 wall tent, a 16 ft Nomadics tipi, an 18 ft Blue Star tipi, and currently have a 10 ft diamond (home made), a 12 ft. diamond (Panther) and an 18 ft Panther tipi, along with a 12 ft Panther Hunter's lodge. There are many good brands out there. A friend of mine has had a Spring Valley lodge for 10 years or more. His poles are about shot, but the lodge is still in good shape. Check out C&S Traders also. I don't own any of their merchandice, but have talked to folks who do. There are undoubtedly other good suppliers, but I have no experience with them, one way or the other. For simplicity of hauling for more than one person, I gotta recommend the 12 ft Hunter's lodge. It is extremely roomy for two adullts, and you can get by with one 8-9 foot pole. Two 10 foot poles used externally give you much more usable interior space. But for comfort and prestige (at least in the owner's mind), there's nothing like a tipi. You can build a fire in it to cook, stay warm, has lots of room, and you can get an awful lot of people in there for a party. But for pure practicality, ease of setup, I got to admit that hunter's lodge has everything beat I've tried. If you're set on a tipi, here's my experience, and it's a rather long post I've hauled tipi poles 3 different ways. Pick your medicine. The first was when I had a full size pickup truck with an aluminum capper top. I wouldn't try this with a capper that did not have interior aluminum ribs. A set of poles can run 350 lbs when real wet. I had this set up for canoes, originally. I had two 2x4 running lengthwise along the capper edge for 8 feet. I had 2-3 2x4 running crosswise at the front of the capper, and 1 2x4 crosswise at the back. All this wood was bolted through the metal capper frame in several places to hold it. The trick to this was to pile all the poles together in the middle, wrap the rope around them in the back, pull them into a bundle, and tie them off to both sides in the back. Then I did the same in the front of the capper, and took the excess rope and whipped it about 10 or so times very tightly around the poles from the front of the capper to the tips of the poles to pull them into a bundle. Next step was to retighten the back, and tie it off to the bumper so the poles were just resting on the 2x4 at the front of the capper. Then, go to the front, and tie the bundle to the front bumper straight down while putting some tension on it. That front bundle now acts like a spring pole, with each pole tip reinforcing the others. Never broke a tip this way on the road. Doing all this takes only slightly longer than it has taken me to type it. It's pretty simple (I mean, even I could do it), and I used this method for several years until I got rid of my truck. I upgraded to a third-hand Suburban, but it was the lap of luxury for me. So I found a used boat trailer, and found I could convert it to a bed 12 feet by 6 and a half feet with 3 foot sidewalls, so I took a lot more stuff, and my setup time stretched to some 4-5 hours due to all the stuff, and I got a hernia from loading/unloading it. I was saved from this contraption when returning from the 1991(?) SW in Newnata, Arkansas carrying my tipi, all the gear for 12 people, and two complete blacksmith shops. Twelve miles short of the Texas border, and half way across the Red River bridge, the axle on the trailer snapped. After what seemed to be several years later we finally got the rig stopped and on the side of the road. My partner in crime took the suburban to Texarkana, rented a 12 ft closed U-haul trailer, and we proceeded to load everything into it. I was reconciled to having to leave the poles, since there were no tie points to tie them to on the trailer. It was close to midnight at the time, and both of us had to be at work (some 6 hour drive away) by 8am the next morning. In desperation, I grabbed the 3 foam rubber mattresses, tossed them on top of the Suburban, tossed all the poles in the middle, and wrapped them all together like explained above. I tied the back tightly to the bumper braces on both sides, and did the same to the front. Ya know what? It worked great, and I used this method for poles for several years after. If it doesn't rain, ya can also sleep on the foam. I have a friend who has a short wheelbase full-size Dodge van. He uses heavy duty luggage racks and hauls his poles on these. This works pretty well now that he's figured out how to keep the racks from loosening up on long trips and falling off. Bottom line is you need a new vehicle or trailer for a tipi. Cover, liner and ozan pack up to the size of a grocery cart measured from the wheels to the top of the cart. If you're planning a family, you're gonna need a bigger vehicle or trailer to haul all the baby stuff anyway, even to go visit folks 10 miles away. Trust me on this. The only thing that takes more plunder than rendezvous is a baby. For a weekend, the diamond is my first choice if going alone, and the hunter's lodge if I have company. For a full week, the tipi is well worth the hassle of transporting it and setting it up. And frankly, I think there is absolutely no more wonderful feeling in this world than curling up with and holding the woman you love as you both watch the full moon rise across the smoke flaps. Roy Parker rparker7@ix,netcom.com, Booshway 1998 SouthWest Regional Rendezvous, Inc. Buckskinner, Brewer, Blacksmith, and several other "B's", incuding BS.... SW Rendezvous info at http://www.sat.net/~robenhaus - ---------- - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3675.5D61B580 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">Roy I am glad you enjoyed my story, = I have a lot of fun telling it over the years. The only = thing I regret is that I didn't get a picture of it. I = haven't seen my friend Jerry that I went with in 25 years but I bet He = is telling the story and enjoying it like I have. Later Jon Towns = ---------- From: Roy Parker <rparker7@ix.netcom.com> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Tipi Date: Monday, = February 09, 1998 10:29 PM On Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:49:49 EST, you = wrote: >Hoy, the net! > >I appreciate all the = knowledge you hivernants have shared with this here >pilgrim! = Let me hit you up for one more... > >My wife and I go = to a week long camp every year with my work. I am afraid = I >have no choice in this one! Every body else has "tin = tipis" with all the >fixin's... we have a small car. = With my love of buckskinning, and two camp >outs or more = each year, we are thinking of getting a tipi for it. (We = don't >have kids yet but plan to start on that one soon enough!) = So here are my >questions: > >What are the best = tipis at a good price? > >How can we move them around with a = small car? > >And the most important one... HOW DO WE = KEEP OUT MOSQUITOS AND OTHER PESTS? > >Your advice is = appreciated as usual. I've read a few posts already replying. = Jon Towns reply darn near ruptured me. I was in = mid-swallow when I read it. Still mopping homebrew out of the = keyboard. I have at one time or the other owned a Panther 10x16 = wall tent, a 16 ft Nomadics tipi, an 18 ft Blue Star tipi, and = currently have a 10 ft diamond (home made), a 12 ft. diamond = (Panther) and an 18 ft Panther tipi, along with a 12 ft Panther = Hunter's lodge. There are many good brands out there. = A friend of mine has had a Spring Valley lodge for 10 years or = more. His poles are about shot, but the lodge is still in good = shape. Check out C&S Traders also. I don't own any of = their merchandice, but have talked to folks who do. There are = undoubtedly other good suppliers, but I have no experience with them, = one way or the other. For simplicity of hauling for more than one = person, I gotta recommend the 12 ft Hunter's lodge. It is = extremely roomy for two adullts, and you can get by with one = 8-9 foot pole. Two 10 foot poles used externally give you much = more usable interior space. But for comfort and prestige = (at least in the owner's mind), there's nothing like a tipi. = You can build a fire in it to cook, stay warm, has lots of = room, and you can get an awful lot of people in there for a party. = But for pure practicality, ease of setup, I got to admit that = hunter's lodge has everything beat I've tried. If you're set on a = tipi, here's my experience, and it's a rather long post I've = hauled tipi poles 3 different ways. Pick your medicine. The = first was when I had a full size pickup truck with an aluminum capper = top. I wouldn't try this with a capper that did not = have interior aluminum ribs. A set of poles can run 350 lbs = when real wet. I had this set up for canoes, originally. I = had two 2x4 running lengthwise along the capper edge for 8 feet. = I had 2-3 2x4 running crosswise at the front of the capper, and = 1 2x4 crosswise at the back. All this wood was bolted through the = metal capper frame in several places to hold it. The trick to = this was to pile all the poles together in the middle, wrap the rope = around them in the back, pull them into a bundle, and tie them off to = both sides in the back. Then I did the same in the front of the = capper, and took the excess rope and whipped it about 10 or so times = very tightly around the poles from the front of the capper to the = tips of the poles to pull them into a bundle. Next step was = to retighten the back, and tie it off to the bumper so the poles = were just resting on the 2x4 at the front of the capper. Then, = go to the front, and tie the bundle to the front bumper straight down = while putting some tension on it. That front bundle now acts = like a spring pole, with each pole tip reinforcing the others. = Never broke a tip this way on the road. Doing all this = takes only slightly longer than it has taken me to type it. = It's pretty simple (I mean, even I could do it), and I used = this method for several years until I got rid of my truck. I = upgraded to a third-hand Suburban, but it was the lap of luxury = for me. So I found a used boat trailer, and found I could = convert it to a bed 12 feet by 6 and a half feet with 3 foot = sidewalls, so I took a lot more stuff, and my setup time stretched to = some 4-5 hours due to all the stuff, and I got a hernia from = loading/unloading it. I was saved from this contraption when = returning from the 1991(?) SW in Newnata, Arkansas carrying my tipi, = all the gear for 12 people, and two complete blacksmith shops. = Twelve miles short of the Texas border, and half way across the = Red River bridge, the axle on the trailer snapped. After what = seemed to be several years later we finally got the rig stopped and = on the side of the road. My partner in crime took the suburban = to Texarkana, rented a 12 ft closed U-haul trailer, and we proceeded = to load everything into it. I was reconciled to having to leave = the poles, since there were no tie points to tie them to on the = trailer. It was close to midnight at the time, and both of us = had to be at work (some 6 hour drive away) by 8am the next = morning. In desperation, I grabbed the 3 foam rubber mattresses, = tossed them on top of the Suburban, tossed all the poles in the = middle, and wrapped them all together like explained above. I = tied the back tightly to the bumper braces on both sides, and did the = same to the front. Ya know what? It worked great, and I = used this method for poles for several years after. If it = doesn't rain, ya can also sleep on the foam. I have a friend = who has a short wheelbase full-size Dodge van. He uses heavy = duty luggage racks and hauls his poles on these. This works = pretty well now that he's figured out how to keep the racks = from loosening up on long trips and falling off. Bottom line = is you need a new vehicle or trailer for a tipi. Cover, liner = and ozan pack up to the size of a grocery cart measured from = the wheels to the top of the cart. If you're planning a family, = you're gonna need a bigger vehicle or trailer to haul all the baby = stuff anyway, even to go visit folks 10 miles away. Trust me on = this. The only thing that takes more plunder than rendezvous is = a baby. For a weekend, the diamond is my first choice if going = alone, and the hunter's lodge if I have company. For a full = week, the tipi is well worth the hassle of transporting it and = setting it up. And frankly, I think there is absolutely no = more wonderful feeling in this world than curling up with and holding = the woman you love as you both watch the full moon rise across the = smoke flaps. Roy Parker rparker7@ix,netcom.com, = Booshway 1998 SouthWest Regional Rendezvous, Inc. Buckskinner, = Brewer, Blacksmith, and several other "B's", incuding = BS.... SW Rendezvous info at http://www.sat.net/~robenhaus ---------- </body></h= tml> - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3675.5D61B580-- ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #17 ****************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.