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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #15 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Sunday, February 8 1998 Volume 01 : Number 015 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 11:25:43 EST From: Rkleinx2@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Moses "Black " Harris >>One thing I do know is that he certainly was a man to be admired for his incredible stamina and survival skills. Imagine walking from Bear Lake in Northern Utah to St. Louis in mid winter! And again several years later from the Wind Rivers to St. Louis, both times with Bill Sublette. That's Some!<< Moses Harris in 1846 also helped open the Southern Route to Oregon ( Applegate Trail). Dick (in Bremerton,WA.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 13:15:55 -0800 From: Dave Parks <kc7cnw@magick.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: M. Harris in Ore. To add to Dick Klein's recent post on Moses "Black" Harris, a little more info into his later life can be found at: http://www.emigrantswest.com/trail.htm One of my "Research Passions" is to locate information leading to the history of the later and last days of these " Men of the Mountains" we hold so close to our hearts. I remember somewhere, someone made the statement that "It was a crying shame that in-depth interviews were not made with the remaining Mountain Men befor their deaths" So many died in obscurity, without giving their biography's to us or at least passing along their side of so many great tales of adventure. I guess at the time things were different and so much history was still being made. Things like Custer's wipe out on the Little Bighorn in '76. I'm sure it was these new history making occurances in the West that kept the reporters busy. A close example would be why so few WWII soldiers were interviewed for their stories, The Korean War (police action) broke out only a few years after VE-Day in 1945. I remember when I was a kid, all the fuss was about interviewing the remaining Civil War Soldiers and writing down their stories of the battles before the survivors were all gone. This was because there was a lull in really major news, between WWI & WWII. Investigative reporters were looking for something interesting to sell to magazines or to their papers. So much in the West was happening, our Mountainy Men were of little interest to the public at the time and sadly they slipped away from the biographers of the day. I would like someday to finish documenting the final days of "OUR BOYS" and where they are buried. Only a handful of their resting places are known to us. Through research we can only hope to locate more. Regards, _M_ Manywounds W ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 22:14:54 -0600 From: Alisa Greet <tgreet@trib.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Help Information on Verendrye Brothers activities in the Big Horn Mountains during 1742 or 1743 needed. Help us find links! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 20:10:02 -0600 From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A passing <html> Buffler Chip just called to let me know Charles Hanson passed away Wednesday. John... Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. john kramer@kramerize.com </html> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 21:21:28 -0800 From: Bob Killingsworth <pastor@srv.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:Door flap Dave Parks wrote: > > Lodgepole, don't ever lose that door flap, you'd never be able to > replace it, it's gotta be one out of a 1000! > > regards, Manywounds I don't want to get involved in a long discussion and stir-up hate and discontent, but I have to stand by my statement that has been backed up by several on this list. That is, "properly done" there is not a problem with falling hair on even deer. I stand silent on the subject after this. Soaring Eagle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 23:08:49 -0800 From: Frank Allana & Jolie Novotny <no@gpcom.net> Subject: MtMan-List: (no subject) For your information, in the Omaha World-Herald Friday, February 6, 1998, founder of the Fur Trade Museum at Chadron, NE Charles Hanson has died, "He died Wednesday at his new home in Kearney, Neb. He was 80." Funeral scheduled for 10am Monday at Nelson-Harris Funeral Home in Holdrege. I know some of you knew him. no@gpcom.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 00:04:00 -0700 From: Dean Rudy <drudy@xmission.com> Subject: MtMan-List: FWD: Hoax >Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 22:01:50 -0700 (MST) >X-Template: /home/users/d/drudy/public_html/mail.txt >To: <drudy@mail.xmission.com> >From: Bob Kilpatrick <bobk@panw.com> >Subject: Hoax > >Have you heard of book "thirty one years in the plains and in the >mountains" by william f. drannon or drannan? I believe it may be a >hoax. author describes too many instances w/ Kit carson & many >other coincedences esp.w/ Modoc war which I doubt. > >-- >This e-mail was generated from the world-wide web; the e-mail address > "Bob Kilpatrick <bobk@panw.com>" >may be incorrect. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 02:49:05 EST From: Xcavatr@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Philip Creamer Greetings, I would be interestd in any information any of you could provide regarding a well-known gunsmith--Philip Creamer. Primarily, I am concerned with his activities in the St. Louis area from 1806-1845. I am currently doing research on a log house that is believed to have been Creamer's first residence on his arrival to the St. Louis region. Any background info would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Xcavatr@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 06:32:02 -0800 From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply -Reply This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3392.19879680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know that the natives on the west coast wore hair on hides to help shed the rain in the winter. Oh by the way does anyone know how to tell when its winter in the NW rain forest?? Give up! Its warmer in the summer. As Lewis said many times in his journals while on the Pacific coast ( All wet and disagreeable) Later Jon T - ---------- : From: kat <kat@janrix.com> : To: 'hist_text@lists.xmission.com' : Subject: RE: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply -Reply : Date: Thursday, February 05, 1998 12:50 PM : : I have a hide in my shop on commission and as a display piece. It has the : hair left on, and it sheds like a dog. We are forever sweeping up hair : bits. I don't know where the artist got the piece from, so it may not have : been a good hide in the first place. Dick, a gentleman I know who does : beautiful brain tanning has always taken the hair off because of this : problem. As an aside, does anyone know of a period use for the hair once it : has been removed from the hide? : : Kat : - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3392.19879680 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">I know that the natives on the west = coast wore hair on hides to help shed the rain in the winter. Oh = by the way does anyone know how to tell when its winter in the NW rain = forest?? Give up! Its warmer in the summer. As Lewis = said many times in his journals while on the Pacific coast ( All wet and = disagreeable) Later Jon T ---------- : From: = kat <kat@janrix.com> : To: 'hist_text@lists.xmission.com' : Subject: RE: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides = - -Reply -Reply : Date: Thursday, February 05, 1998 12:50 PM : : = I have a hide in my shop on commission and as a display piece. It has = the : hair left on, and it sheds like a dog. We are forever sweeping = up hair : bits. I don't know where the artist got the piece from, so = it may not have : been a good hide in the first place. Dick, a = gentleman I know who does : beautiful brain tanning has always taken = the hair off because of this : problem. As an aside, does anyone = know of a period use for the hair once it : has been removed from = the hide? : : Kat : </body></html> - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3392.19879680-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 11:33:48 -0500 From: hawknest4@juno.com (Michael Pierce) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Philip Creamer Private---- HAVE CHECKED ALL OF MY BOOKS THAT I USE FOR REFERENCE ON DATING AND RESTORING RIFLES. PHILIP CREAMER IS NOT LISTED. A BASIC LIST I CHECKED ARE: 1.THE PLAINS RIFLE BY CHARLES E HANSON 2.GREAT GUNS BY PETERSON 3. THE PENNSYLVANIA KENTUCKY RIFLE BY KAUFFMAN 4. THE KENTUCKY RIFLE BY THE KENTUCKY RIFLE ASSOCIATION 5. THE HAWKINS RIFLE BY JOHN BAIRD 6. FIFTEEN YEARS IN THE HAWKINS LODE BY BAIRD 7. PATCH BOXES AND BARREL MARKS BY CHANDLER AND ABOUT 7 0R 8 OTHERS (ie THE RECREATION SERIES )THAT I SOMETIME USE JUST TO FIND A NAME OR BACKGROUND DATA. I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU WRITE OR CONTACT THE FOLLOWING: THE ST LOUIS HISTORICAL SOCIETY, THE ST LOUIS COUNTY TAX ASSESSOR, THE ST LOUIS GUN COLLECTORS ASSOCIATION (THERE IS SEVERAL WHO COLLECT ONLY ST LOUIS GUNS)( IF YOU CONTACT ME @ E-MAIL HAWKNEST4@JUNO.COM I CAN GIVE YOU A STARTING NAME YOU CAN ALSO GIVE ME A PHONE CALL THE NUMBER IS BELOW), THE GEMMNER MUZZLE LOADING RIFLE CLUB, THE MISSOURI HISTORICAL SOCIETY. WHEN I GET TOTALLY LOST I USUALLY CALL OR WRITE TO LEE GOOD WHO IS THE CURATOR OF A GUN MUSEUM IN OKLAHOMA (SAME TOWN AS WILL ROGERS WAS BORN IN) AND AN EXPERT IN FINDING NAMES OF GUNSMITHS SINCE HE HAS A EXTREME GOOD LIBRARY OF MAKERS AND A DATABASE TO TRACK THEM. HE US TO BE IN MUZZLE BLAST MAGAZINE EVER MONTH WITH LETTERS TO HIM ASKING FOR INFORMATION . GEORGE SHUMWAY WHO WRITES MANY BOOKS CAN ALSO GIVE YOU A LINE ON THE GUN MAKER, AND IS AN EXPERT ON LOCATING A MAKER. I DO A LOT OF RESTORATION AND THESE ARE WHERE I USUALLY START TO GET A BASE. SOMETIMES YOU WILL EVEN FIND SOMEONE WHO HAS ONE OF THE MAKERS GUNS THAT THEY CAN SEND YOU PICTURES OF. A MAN BY THE NAME OF KIP RAP (sp) IN ST LOUIS IS ALSO A EXPERT ON ST LOUIS MAKERS OF ST LOUIS RIFLES AND HAS A LOT OF PICTURES. I CAN GO ON FOR A LONG TIME ON THE TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS THAT I HAVE HAD TRYING TO LOCATE A INDIVIDUAL MAKER AND TO GET BACKGROUND ON THEM . FOR THE RESTORATION OF THE LOG CABIN CONTACT BETTY JO QUIBELL @ 813-799- 2510 WHO IS AN EXPERT ON LOG HOME RESTORATION. SHE IS PRESENTLY LIVING IN A LOG HOME BUILT IN THE MID 1800 IN SAFETY HARBOR FLORIDA. AND IS THE OLDEST RESIDENCE IN THE AREA. HOPE I HAVE BEEN OF SOME HELP TO YOU AND SORRY FOR THE LENGTH OF THIS EPISTLE. "Hawkeye" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(813) 771-1815 On Sat, 7 Feb 1998 02:49:05 EST XCAVATR@aol.com writes: >Greetings, > > I would be interestd in any information any of you could provide >regarding a well-known gunsmith--Philip Creamer. Primarily, I am >concerned >with his activities in the St. Louis area from 1806-1845. I am >currently >doing research on a log house that is believed to have been Creamer's >first >residence on his arrival to the St. Louis region. Any background info >would >be greatly appreciated. Thank you. > >Xcavatr@aol.com > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: 07 Feb 98 09:46:43 +0000 From: Phyllis and Don Keas <pdkeas@market1.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Charles Hanson It is hard to believe Charles is gone. I think he has done as much for the history of the fur trade as anyone I know. His research showed the way for the rest of us and I don't know of anyone else who can lay claim to establishing a museum like he and his wife did. It is too bad that his last years had to be embroiled in a family fight, but then he certainly wasn't a man to back away from one when he knew he was in the right. We will all miss him and my heart goes out to his wife. Charles - may your journey be a good one and I hope you will welcome me into your camp someday. Don Keas ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 12:10:54 EST From: J2HEARTS@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: M. Harris in Ore. Dave, I live in Napa, Ca. As you are no doubt aware, many a trapper and mountain man migrated in their later years to California. I have personally been to the gravesites of the folowing: James Clyman................Napa, Ca. It is believed there are some of the more obscure mountain men burried there also. They have a graves registry there and are willing to help with historical documentation. James Walker.................Martinez, Ca. James Kirker...................Somersville, Ca. It is believed he is burried in an unmaked grave in a town that no longer exists (Sommersville). It used to be a mining community is the 30's and had it's own graveyard. I think I remember seeing the reminents of it some 30 years ago off the side of the road between the cities of Pittsburg and Concord along Kirker Pass Road. Thought this info might help in later research. John Funk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 20:50:24 EST From: TetonTod@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Fur Trade Symposium-2000 For those who didn't make the Fur Trade symposium in Pinedale last September, you may want to start making long range plans for the next one. It will be held at Fort Union Trading Post National Historic Site near Williston, ND. It will be sometime in September 2000. The tentative focus is the Upper Missouri fur trade, 1802-1895. For further details and questions, contact Robert Thomson at r.wolfe@mailexcite.com Todd Glover ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:16:37 -0800 From: "The Windhams" <windham@jps.net> Subject: MtMan-List: New Skinners co. Ahoy camp, for those of ya out in the calif. area we've started a new page with treckers items, a list of rendezvous in the so. cal area and a camp full of hospitality, I won't act like I have no intrest, but the goods are fair and the grog devine check us out when you have the time, know of an event let us know and it's posted, no charge for club or bus. jus want the sprit alive. note: trappers beware our righs are under fire the tree huggers want the right to trap for ever vanished in ca.the bill has the numbers to be put to a vote ! oh yea the page can be found at http:www.ptw.com/~lattanze/home/blackhawk.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 04:08:45 GMT From: khall@spacetech.com (Ken Hall) Subject: MtMan-List: Muzzleloader Videos Hail the list: I have read with interest the very positive reviews of Hershel House's how to videos on the MLML web site and I was wondering if anyone has viewed the Homer Dangler videos? Would purchasing these videos in addition to the H. House give a broader scope or are the techniques so dissimilar that the comparision would raise more questions than answer. Thanks very much for your input. /Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:20:30 -1000 From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:Door flap Dave Parks wrote: > > Lodgepole, don't ever lose that door flap, you'd never be able to > replace it, it's gotta be one out of a 1000! > > regards, Manywounds I almost hate to say this, but my father scraped and dried a piece of hide off the first deer I ever killed and nailed it to a stool we both used in his workshop. It was in almost daily use for the next 35 years and never went bald or even close to it. I don't even remember it's slipping any hair at all. Was he magic or what? Aloha Blue ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 08:49:14 +0000 From: gemini <"gemini@socket.net"@socket.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: New Skinners co. The Windhams wrote: > Ahoy camp, > for those of ya out in the calif. area we've started a new page with > treckers items, a list of rendezvous in the so. cal area and a camp > full of > hospitality, I won't act like I have no intrest, but the goods are > fair and > the grog devine check us out when you have the time, > know of an event let us know and it's posted, no charge for club or > bus. > jus want the sprit alive. note: trappers beware our righs are under > fire > the tree huggers want the right to trap for ever vanished in ca.the > bill > has the numbers to be put to a vote ! > oh yea the page can be found at > http:www.ptw.com/~lattanze/home/blackhawk.html Can't seem to locate your site. Netscape tells me no name specified. Crazyman ------------------------------ Date: 08 Feb 98 09:41:06 +0000 From: Phyllis and Don Keas <pdkeas@market1.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: New Skinners co. I'm not surprised they want to eleminate trapping in California. They did that to us here in Colorado and mostly the Californicators that led the fight. You guys have a fight on your hands and I hate to say it, but I'm going to guess it is a losing battle for you. Emotions count for a lot more than common sense when it comes to voters. The Windhams wrote: >Ahoy camp, >for those of ya out in the calif. area we've started a new page with >treckers items, a list of rendezvous in the so. cal area and a camp full of >hospitality, I won't act like I have no intrest, but the goods are fair and >the grog devine check us out when you have the time, >know of an event let us know and it's posted, no charge for club or bus. >jus want the sprit alive. note: trappers beware our righs are under fire >the tree huggers want the right to trap for ever vanished in ca.the bill >has the numbers to be put to a vote ! >oh yea the page can be found at >http:www.ptw.com/~lattanze/home/blackhawk.html > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > >Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com > (SMTPD32-4.03) id AEB27E702A8; Sun, 08 Feb 1998 00:28:50 MST >Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 1.73 #4) > id 0y1R29-0007Hu-00; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 00:20:09 -0700 >Received: from xmission.xmission.com [198.60.22.2] (drudy) > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.73 #4) > id 0y1R27-0007HV-00; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 00:20:07 -0700 >Received: (from drudy@localhost) by xmission.xmission.com (8.8.7/8.7.5) id >AAA25711 for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 00:20:06 - -0700 (MST) >Received: from mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22] > by lists.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #4) > id 0y1MKU-0006N3-00; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 19:18:46 -0700 >Received: from dry.jps.net [208.25.63.253] > by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.73 #4) > id 0y1MKT-0003B5-00; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 19:18:45 -0700 >Received: from test (ila-port295.jps.net [206.18.125.206]) > by dry.jps.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA27269 > for <hist_text@xmission.com>; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 18:18:44 -0800 (PST) >Message-Id: <199802080218.SAA27269@dry.jps.net> >From: "The Windhams" <windham@jps.net> >To: "hist _text mailing list" <hist_text@xmission.com> >Subject: MtMan-List: New Skinners co. >Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:16:37 -0800 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Priority: 3 >X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >X-UIDL: 881269967 >Status: U > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 02:54:57 -0500 From: hawknest4@juno.com (Michael Pierce) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply -Reply FOR THOSE OF YOU OUT THER THAT DONT KNOW MUCH ABOUT DEER HIDES WITH HAIR ON THEM. DEER HAIR IS HOLLOW AND WHEN WALKED ON WILL BREAK OFF AND SHEAD. IF YOU HAVE A DEER OR SIMILAR HIDE ITS ONLY USE CANNOT BE ONE WHERE IT IS WALKED ON ONLY AS A HANGING OR IN CLOTHING THAT WILL NOT BE WALKED ON. DEER HAIR IS AN EXCEPTIONAL HAIR BECAUSE OF ITS HOLLOWNESS FOR FISH FLYS BECAUSE OF ITS HOLLOWNESS WILL FLOAT. MOST OF THE SO CALLED RUGS MADE OF DEERHIDES THAT ARE TANNED ARE USUALLY BEST USED AS A WALL DECORATION OR AS A CLOSURE FOR A LODGE DOOR OR FOR A WRAP. I HATE TO SHOW MY STUPIDITY BUT I ALWAYS THOUGHT THIS WAS THE REASON FOR TANNING DEER SKINS WITH HAIR ON THEM THEY SHOULD NEVER BE USED AS RUGS. THEY CAN BE USED AS BED COVERS AND THE LIKE BUT YOU MUST EXPECT THE HAIR TO SHED WITH USAGE. JUST BECAUSE IT IS SHEADING IS NOT A SIGN THAT IT IS A BAD HIDE OR THAT IT HAS BEEN TANNED IMPROPERLY. "Hawkeye" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(813) 771-1815 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #15 ****************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.