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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest)
To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #14
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
hist_text-digest Friday, February 6 1998 Volume 01 : Number 014
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 13:12:14 EST
From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides
Well, the door flap on my Lodge is deer hide with the hair on. Stands to
reason it would do a better job of holding in the heat and holding out the
cold with the hair on. Haven't had any problem with the hair coming out all
over everything either. Do have a Moose "Cape" with the hair on and I do
experience the same problem as Forrest on this one, leaves hair everywhere.
Longshot
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 07:29:06 -0800
From: Dennis Fisher <dfisher@sbceo.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Air guns
> > They now say the air that was on display at the fort is the same type as used by Lewis, the one he used had the air tank in the stock.
It has been a while since I read about the air rifle but as I recall it
had a spherical air tank forward of the trigger guard area. After so
many shots it had to be unscrewed and attached to a hand pump to
recharged.
Dennis
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 14:16:49 -0600 (CST)
From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides
>Jo Tiger asked if anyone could tell how to tan a deer hide with the hair
>on.
>
>The question I have is why would anyone want a deer hide tanned with
>hair on?
Well, for one thing they make nice bedding. In camp I sleep on 7 or 8
hides, spread out in my tent, that I've processed with the hair on. I lay
them on the bare ground, hair side up. With the hides below me, my wool
blankets and buffalo coat above, and a wool hat, I keep pretty toasty on
the coldest nights. The hollow hide hairs keep cold away while the
thickness of the skin keeps moisture off. Remember, with the hair on, the
epidermis on the hair side adds an extra layer of water resistance, and the
hairs give you the dead air space for insulation. I have never felt cold
or moisture through a deer hide that has the hair intact.
They're also nice to sit on when there's nothing but wet or snowy ground,
and it's always a nice neighborly way to share when you have company over.
There are a thousand uses for hair-on hides.
Sweet dreams,
HBC
*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford Curator of History
mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442 Box 43191
FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191
WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
************** "Make it so!" ***************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 13:55:10 -0800
From: Flying Cloud <flyingcd@rosenet.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Air guns
Dennis Fisher wrote:
>
> > > They now say the air that was on display at the fort is the same type as used by Lewis, the one he used had the air tank in the stock.
>
> It has been a while since I read about the air rifle but as I recall it
> had a spherical air tank forward of the trigger guard area. After so
> many shots it had to be unscrewed and attached to a hand pump to
> recharged.
>
> Dennis
Hi Dennis
The original air gun has been found, it is now in a museum in the
midwest somewhere according to the curator at Fort Clatsup. The one
they had on display turned out to be different type than originally
thougth to have been carried by Lewis. The one they found has the tank
in the stock with a seperate hand pump.
- --
Jim Ellison, http://www.rosenet.net/~flyingcd
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 15:22:29 -0800
From: Bob Killingsworth <pastor@srv.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply
WIDD-Tim Austin (WIDD-Tim Austin) wrote:
>
> Yes, have plenty that I used for the floor of my tepee, did not finish them
> entirely since they were going to be a floor and did not need to be real
> soft on the flesh side.
>
> Because of the hair going all the time, it gets everywhere, and thus
> makes it not a good idea to tan a deer hide with hair on. The stuff gets
> everywhere, and the crazy thing is that they never look like they have
> less hair. Have 2 large ones from MN that have had for 15 years, still
> lots of hair comes off, but not sign of them getting to be less hair.
Thye reason the hair comes off is that it was not set properly when the
tanning was done. I refer you back to a reply to this same line a few
days ago and will not take space to reinterate the method. We use the
large mule deer hides we get here in Idaho for floor coverings a lot and
also for capes over our skins in the winter. They work great and we do
not have a problem with much hair loss at all.
Soaring Eagle
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 21:04:55 -0700
From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Nick names/ camp names
Sorry, I can't help you with the Mohawk.
I'm just starting learn about the Iroquois in the West. I grew up (as much
as I have grown up anyway) in Jim Bridger's back yard -- thinking that Old
Gabe was the first mountain man to see most of this country. It has been
quite a revelation as I grow long in tooth to discover that while Jim
Bridger was still just a lad in St. Louis that Iroquois mountain men
employed by the NWC were exploring Idaho as far south as the Bear River.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Fred A. Miller <fmiller@lightlink.com>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Monday, January 26, 1998 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Nick names/ camp names
>-----Original Message-----
>From: David Tippets <wolverine76@email.msn.com>
>To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
>Date: Monday, January 26, 1998 8:09 PM
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Nick names/ camp names
>
>
>>I don't have the information to document it, but hope this grad student's
>>research is published this year and it may include something about Black
>>Harris. I met him at the Sept. fur trade symposium in Pinedale, but can't
>>remember his name. He's one of Fred Gowans' grad student's, however, and
>we
>>should be able to ask Gowans for an update on the research.
>
>
>[snip]
>
>David, you seem quite knowledgeable about the Iroquois. I'd like to know
if
>you know anything about a Mohawk chief named Tiyanoga, also known as
>Hendrik. I've not had much success in gathering data.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Fred
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 21:13:46 -0700
From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Watches (was: Time and Damascus Steel)
Thanks, you Gottfreds!
It's fun to stike gold when you don't even expect it.
Have pictures of any of the mentioned watches been published in any of the
literature that you have cited?
Thanks,
Dave.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Watches (was: Time and Damascus Steel)
>I'm turning this one over to my husband too! Jeff responds once more:
>
> "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com> wrote:
>>One interesting item from David Thompson's journal during his early years
>>with the Hudson Bay Co. prior to his defection to the North West Fur Co.,
is
>>that just as soon a clock was available that the HBC considered dependable
>>and accurate enough to calculating longitude the Company immediately
shipped
>>Thompson one from England. There were no details about what the timepiece
>>was like.
>
>Thompson first received two watches from the Hudson's Bay Company in 1792,
>although the type and maker are not known. Both of these watches gave him
>trouble, as he sent them for repair the following year, and borrowed a pair
>from Joseph Colen, the Governor of York Factory. The following year (1794)
>his watches returned from repair along with 'a second & stop watch with 2
>case val[ue] [pounds]12.12 - with spare glasses and keys per Jolly ordered
>[serial] No. 310'.
>This watch was made by Joseph Jolly, 11 Dean Street, Fetter Lane, London.
>Jolly supplied watches to other early HBC explorers such as Peter Fidler
>(No. 291) and Malchom Ross (No. 292) (Jeff & Angela Gottfred, "The Life of
>David Thompson", in _Northwest Journal_ vol. V, citing Smyth).
>
>These Jolly watches appear to have been good quality 'common' watches, and
>not the much more accurate 'pocket chronometers'. Even though pocket
>chronometers were available, Thompson was not equipped with one. As late as
>1810 he complains about the accuracy of his 'common watches'. I have
>computed his watch rate during December 1810 to January 1811 at 4 seconds
>per hour fast, plus or minus 9 seconds per hour. Such a watch would be
>useless for direct computation of longitude.
>
>The pocket chronometers or 'deck watches' made by Arnold, Earnshaw and
>Broeckbank were worth around 25 Guineas in 1806. Such pocket chronometers
>were as accurate as a second or two per day. Note that even this is not
>accurate enough for direct computation of longitude many months after the
>watch is set. (How much the watch gains or loses in any time period is
>irrelevant, what matters is whether the rate of gain or loss is constant.
My
>Seiko quartz watch gains 0.5 seconds per day - however, its rate is so
>constant that I can compute GMT to one second accuracy after a year (leap
>seconds notwithstanding!). Pocket chronometers did not have such constant
>rates.)
>
>The better English made 'common' watches of the period (circa 1800) would
>have used a rack lever escapement (the detached lever escapement used in
>modern mechanical watches did not emerge until about 1814).
>Pocket chronometers used a spring detent escapement (Arnold began producing
>these in the early 1780's), required no oil, and keep just as good time
>today as they did when they were first made 200 years ago. (Landes, David
S.
>_Revolution in Time : Clocks and the Making of the Modern World_. Belknap
>Press : Cambridge, Mass, 1983. ISBN 0-674-76800-0.)
>
>It is also an interesting historical note that Harrison's famous
>chronometers simply proved that accurate time-keeping was possible. His
>designs (with the exception of the retaining power) did not survive his No.
>4. The pocket and boxed marine chronometers of Arnold &c. had completely
>different 'guts'. (see Sobel, Dava. _Longitude : The True Story of a Lone
>Genius Who Solved the Greatist Scientific Problem of His Time_. Walker &
Co.
>: NY, 1995. ISBN 0-8027-1312-2)
>
>
>agottfre@telusplanet.net
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 00:08:09 -0800 (PST)
From: zaslow <zaz@pacificnet.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply
Sorry to disagree, but deer/elk hair is hollow and no matter how you tan the
hide, the hair breaks off all the time and falls out. Beaver, buffalo and
other types of hides do not have hollow hair, therefore the hair stays in.
That is not to say that deer/elk with the hair on cannot be used, it just
means that you will have to deal with hair falling out.
Best Regards,
Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
________________________________________________________________________________
> Thye reason the hair comes off is that it was not set properly when the
>tanning was done. I refer you back to a reply to this same line a few
>days ago and will not take space to reinterate the method. We use the
>large mule deer hides we get here in Idaho for floor coverings a lot and
>also for capes over our skins in the winter. They work great and we do
>not have a problem with much hair loss at all.
>
>Soaring Eagle
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:35:23 -0600
From: jolighthouse@webtv.net (jo tiger)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply
Thanks to all you Mt.Man guys for the great info on tanning deer hides
w/hair on. I think my deer hunting friend can now proceed at his own
risk, if he has the "brains* to do it! :) I figured when I surfed on
to this bunch, y'all would KNOW!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:27:56 EST
From: J2HEARTS@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply
Jerry's right.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 08:14:31 -0700
From: "L. A. Romsa" <LROMSA1@missc.state.wy.us>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply -Reply
> Thye reason the hair comes off is that it was >not set properly when the
>tanning was done.=20
>Soaring Eagle
I too have heard this! Although I don't have any personal experience, =
YET!!!, I have been told that if the hair is not set properly it becomes =
hollow ( like a straw) and easily breaks off.
BrokenJaw.
=20
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 11:03:43 +0000
From: Longtrail <ezra@midrivers.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply
I agree with jerry,deer/elk hair is hollow and brittle.July deer you
will find is more like fur.When I say like fur its not as hollow or
brittle as fall kills or as thick.Some indian reservation start hunting
in july which I feel is more suitable for hair-on tanning plus the hides
are thinner.I have worked with summer hides(as I call them)and find them
much easier to work with. Best regards Joe
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 09:56:47 -0800
From: Dave Parks <kc7cnw@magick.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Deer hides
I'll have to throw in with Jerry, We both been sleeping on furs and
hides for years ( me, 'bout 40 years!) Jerry is a lot younger and
handsome'r too! Anyway, even on the best tanned deer and elk hides the
hair will fall off, not because it comes of the hide so much as it
BREAKS and falls off. On a poorly tanned hide the hairs will come off
like a
dog shedding. The worst of all hides is antelope and carabou. Their hair
is hollow tubes, and they break very easily. Deer and elk hair is not
really hollow, but has a shape that looks like it is. I get to see
antelope, Mule deer, and elk hair all the time. I pick little bunches of
it off our barbwire fences. Coyotes and badger will leave a little hair
on the bottom rung of wire as well. The old 'yotes will hit that wire
running full out, when they see my .22-250 stick out of the farm truck
window! Over the years I've found that I prefer to use something like
canvas layers on my lodge floor, then I put down my deer and elk hides.
Being tanned in basically a salt and alum solution, the dressed hides
are like a sponge to moisture. It is not a good idea to lay them
directly on the ground as they will suck up moisture from it and in a
few days they will start to turn blackish with mold. Lay them atop
another ground cover and they won't go bad on you as long as you keep
them dry.
I have a rather large Black bear hide that I use over my HB
blanket and have never been cold with it, even in -0 weather. Buffalo
hides are great, but in most cases, their price is even more crazy than
what they get for HB's & Whit's. A sign of the times I guess. I smile
everytime I see someone ask how to tan deer hides, because for those
that have done it......we know just how much work it is! Like other
things we make, they may be tiresome and hard to do, but when
finished....we sure are proud of our labors. I'm fixing to drop 13 big
beaver into the pickling mix at present....and I'm not looking forward
to the labor part, but they'll sure look nice when I put them in their
willow hoops and hang'em on the cabin walls!
Regards, _M_ MAnywounds
W
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:38:58 EST
From: TetonTod@aol.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Moses "Black " Harris
Howdy All
I recently spoke with Dr. Fred Gowans and Lynn Clayton who is a
graduate student of Dr. Gowans about Moses Harris and whether he was an
Iroquois. Both indicated that while it's not entirely out of the realm of
possibility, there certainly is no conclusive proof that he was. (None that
they are aware of)
Certain clues lead one to believe that he probably was not. Most of the
Iroquois trappers in the west adopted French names and Moses Harris certainly
doesn't fit that mold. In Jedediah Smith and the Opening of the West, Dale
Morgan writes " His given name was Moses, and he was born, it is said, in
Union County, South Carolina..." Alfred Jacob Miller describes him as " of
wiry form, made up of bone and muscle, with a face apparently composed of tan
leather and whip cord, finished off with a peculiar blue-black tint, as if
gunpowder had been burnt into his face."
One thing I do know is that he certainly was a man to be admired for
his incredible stamina and survival skills. Imagine walking from Bear Lake in
Northern Utah to St. Louis in mid winter! And again several years later from
the Wind Rivers to St. Louis, both times with Bill Sublette. That's Some!
Todd Glover
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 13:51:12 -0600 (CST)
From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply
>Sorry to disagree, but deer/elk hair is hollow and no matter how you tan the
>hide, the hair breaks off all the time and falls out. Beaver, buffalo and
>other types of hides do not have hollow hair, therefore the hair stays in.
>That is not to say that deer/elk with the hair on cannot be used, it just
>means that you will have to deal with hair falling out.
>
Most of my hair-on hides are 8-10 years old or more, and still have most of
their hair. They are just as thick and soft as the day they were shot.
Granted that deer hair does fall out, as with most skins, but very little
at a time on mine, and at this rate it could be fifty years or more before
I have unservicable deer hide sleeping mats. Scraped, salted, and
preserved right, the skin will remain in good shape indefinitely.
HBC
*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford Curator of History
mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442 Box 43191
FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191
WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
************** "Make it so!" ***************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 14:04:03 -0500
From: "Scott Allen" <allen@blueridge-ef.SAIC.COM>
Subject: MtMan-List: Rifle Raffle Winner
Hello the list,
Well, we have a winner of the Jack Garner Pa Poorboy rifle
raffled by the Friends of Fort Frederick. Mr. Gary Smith of
Hedgesville, WV is our lucky winner. Thanks to all who supported
us. We are planning another raffle to happen during the 4 days of our
18th Century Market Fair in April. More guns and the tickets will be
sold during the fair and the drawings held then also. Will provide
more info as it developes. Again, thanks to all.
Your most humble servant,
Scott Allen
Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick
Fairplay, MD
http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 15:21:21 -0800
From: Flying Cloud <flyingcd@rosenet.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Other guns of the Corp of Discovery
Flying Cloud wrote:
>
> tigrbo1 wrote:
> >
> > JON P TOWNS wrote:
> > >I have read and know for a fact that the Corp had Air Rifles
> >
> > Greetings Jon,
> >
> > Many moons ago I paid a visit to Ft. Clatsap a few miles west of
> > Astoria, Ore. on the northern oregon coast, and while there I also
> > toured their museum. They had on display (replica?) air guns used by
> > Lewis & Clark that used a spheariod air tank that attached about where a
> > magizene would go on a modern rifle. Very interesting.
> >>
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Terry Smith
>
> Hi terry
> They now say the air that was on display at the fort is the same type
> as used by Lewis, the one he used had the air tank in the stock.
> --
>
> Jim Ellison, http://www.rosenet.net/~flyingcd
Hands are to fast the air gun at the fort WAS NOT THE SAME as used by
Lewis
- --
Jim Ellison, http://www.rosenet.net/~flyingcd
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:50:36 -0500
From: kat <kat@janrix.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply -Reply
I have a hide in my shop on commission and as a display piece. It has the
hair left on, and it sheds like a dog. We are forever sweeping up hair
bits. I don't know where the artist got the piece from, so it may not have
been a good hide in the first place. Dick, a gentleman I know who does
beautiful brain tanning has always taken the hair off because of this
problem. As an aside, does anyone know of a period use for the hair once it
has been removed from the hide?
Kat
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end
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 02:57:25 GMT
From: bamafan@Traveller.COM (PHIL PETERSEN)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply
Joe knows what he is talking about. I have first hand knowledge. We would
all be well served listning to he and Longtrail.
Grasshoppa
>I agree with jerry,deer/elk hair is hollow and brittle.July deer you
>will find is more like fur.When I say like fur its not as hollow or
>brittle as fall kills or as thick.Some indian reservation start hunting
>in july which I feel is more suitable for hair-on tanning plus the hides
>are thinner.I have worked with summer hides(as I call them)and find them
>much easier to work with. Best regards Joe
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 23:02:01 EST
From: JSeminerio@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Air guns- I want one
Does any one know if there are any gun makers making muzzle loading air guns
???
I've always wanted one !!!!
Does any one know anything about the St Vitus Corp ??? I've heard stories
around the camp fire at Voo that during the Napoleanic wars, the English
sniped at night using these flashless rifles and the victims would jump up
twitching and fall down dead like those stricken with the St Vitus Dance. Is
that story true ???? Any other info out there ???
Watch your topknot
JS
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 23:40:08 EST
From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply
In a message dated 98-02-05 10:08:30 EST, you write:
<< Sorry to disagree, but deer/elk hair is hollow and no matter how you tan
the
hide, the hair breaks off all the time and falls out >>
I'll tell my door flap to start losing it's hair pronto, apparantly it doesn't
know any better. :)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 21:42:08 -0700
From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Moses "Black " Harris
To: Teton Tod
Re: Black Harris
From: D.Tippets
You sure know more about Black Harris than I do, but I wouldn't discount his
potential for having a NE Indian lineage by his Christian name. One of the
things the Iroquois in the West became famous for were four attempts to
travel from Flathead country to St. Louis to get a Priest to teach the
Salish about Christ. They were finally successful, resulting in Father
DeSmet, Father Point, and other black robes heading to the Rockies to teach
the Indians.
His British surname is not conclusive either, as there were enough Scots and
English in Lower Canada to help the French mix Iroquis blood. A Canadian
Park Ranger told me last summer that there are even Irish-sired subgroups of
Metis.
Being born in South Carolina, however, doesn't seem to contribute much to
the arguement.
- -----Original Message-----
From: TetonTod@aol.com <TetonTod@aol.com>
To: hist_text@xmission.com <hist_text@xmission.com>
Date: Thursday, February 05, 1998 1:31 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Moses "Black " Harris
>Howdy All
>
> I recently spoke with Dr. Fred Gowans and Lynn Clayton who is a
>graduate student of Dr. Gowans about Moses Harris and whether he was an
>Iroquois. Both indicated that while it's not entirely out of the realm of
>possibility, there certainly is no conclusive proof that he was. (None that
>they are aware of)
> Certain clues lead one to believe that he probably was not. Most of
the
>Iroquois trappers in the west adopted French names and Moses Harris
certainly
>doesn't fit that mold. In Jedediah Smith and the Opening of the West, Dale
>Morgan writes " His given name was Moses, and he was born, it is said, in
>Union County, South Carolina..." Alfred Jacob Miller describes him as " of
>wiry form, made up of bone and muscle, with a face apparently composed of
tan
>leather and whip cord, finished off with a peculiar blue-black tint, as if
>gunpowder had been burnt into his face."
> One thing I do know is that he certainly was a man to be admired
for
>his incredible stamina and survival skills. Imagine walking from Bear Lake
in
>Northern Utah to St. Louis in mid winter! And again several years later
from
>the Wind Rivers to St. Louis, both times with Bill Sublette. That's Some!
>
>Todd Glover
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 21:17:52 -0800
From: Dave Parks <kc7cnw@magick.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re:Door flap
Lodgepole, don't ever lose that door flap, you'd never be able to
replace it, it's gotta be one out of a 1000!
regards, Manywounds
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 00:12:23 EST
From: Casapy123@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flatheads looking for Holy Book
Dave,
In your post re: Moses Harris you referenced the Flatheads who came East
looking for spiritual guidance. I've always heard that too and have seen
nothing to refute it.
However, in the PBS Lewis and Clark special, did you catch when they said
that was not the reason the Flatheads came to St. Louis? I was surprised to
hear that.
Anyone else notice that? Anyone have any documentation that's not why they
came?
Jim Hardee AMM 1676
P.O. Box 1228
Quincy, CA 95971
(530)283-4566 (H)
(530)283-3330 (W)
(530)283-5171 FAX
Casapy123@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 22:27:39 -0700
From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Iroquois at 1825 rendezvous
Kat,
I assume that you are asking the source for the Indian effigy hood.
I started with what appears in paintings by Alfred Jacob Miller and are
interpreted in the Mountain Man Sketchbook. Comments from people who
reproduced these hoods were that they were hard to keep on the head without
tying them on under the chin. Then I observed in a couple of sketches by a
19th Century artist named Eastman, that the effigy hoods worn by the Ojibwa
appeared much more form fitting than those depicted by Miller, however,
Eastman showed people wearing them in mid winter while Miller showed
mountain men wearing them during the spring or summer when they may not have
wanted tight woolen blanketing around their heads.
I also located two sketches by Ellsworth Jaeger from the Buffalo Museum of
Science showing Penobscot Indians in effigy hunting hoods. Jaeger's
sketches, like Eastman's, showed form fitting effigy hoods.
After cutting out the blanket pieces as suggested in the Mountain Man
Sketchbook, I tacked them together then made the tailoring adjustments
needed so that it would actually fit my head. It'll stay on in a strong
wind blowing down the Yellowstone in winter with no chin strap needed.
I wish Alfred Jacob Miller had stayed in the Rockies for four seasons and
given us a year-round view, rather than just a summer perspective. Had
Miller done that, I suspect he would have painted close fitting effigy hoods
more like those depicted by Eastman and Jaeger.
- -----Original Message-----
From: kat <kat@janrix.com>
To: 'hist_text@lists.xmission.com' <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 2:59 PM
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Iroquois at 1825 rendezvous
>no, then you would have been an elf. Could you please post your source for
the hat?
>
>Kat
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 08:01:42 -0500
From: "Scott Allen" <allen@blueridge-ef.SAIC.COM>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply -Reply
Kat wrote:
. As an aside, does anyone know of a period use for the
hair once it has been removed from the hide?
Kat,
We have several books on Indians and in a couple they tell of balls
of leather with a small rock in the center (for weight) and stuffed
with deer hair before sewn shut. We have made several for our kids
and given many away. The children think they are great and play for
hours at rondys with them. Also, it was used to stuff winter mocs,
but after trying this, I wouldn't recommend wearing socks at the same
time!
Your most humble servant,
Scott Allen
Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick
Fairplay, MD
http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 09:49:47 -0500
From: Ron Valley <Ron.Valley@digital.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: FW: 1837 Smallpox & Jeffery Amherst
Hello the list -
Earlier this week, or last, I seem to recall that someone asked for
information pertaining to smallpox. Although I deleted that message, I
found the following entry dating back to the month of June within a
reference file I maintain. Hope it helps.
OBTW, does anyone out there know if the man who won the rifle in a
raffle recently, is the same Gary Smith who lived in NH at one time and
went by the handle of 'Sour Dough' ?
- -- Ron Valley
- ----------
From: Loren Rochester[SMTP:ldr@terracom.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 1997 10:38 AM
To: hist_text
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1837 Smallpox
I'm not a doctor, but smallpox infected blankets were used during
Pontiac's
Rebellion by Amherst. I just did a web search and found the following
link
http://www.maxwell.syr.edu/nativeweb/subject/amherst/lord_jeff.html
check it out!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 13:15:19 +0000
From: Longtrail <ezra@midrivers.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: smallpox
I found this book to be very informitive. It cost about 8 bucks or so.
AN ETHNOHISTORICAL INTERPERETATION OF THE SPREAD OF SMALLPOX IN THE
NORTHERN PLAINS UTILIZING CONCEPTS OF DISEASE ECOLOGY
By Michael K. Trimble
A study conducted for the National Park Service=20
Midwest Region
Midwestern Archeological Center
Lincoln, Nebraska
Under Purchase Order
Px-6115-9-054A
Department of Anthropology
College of Arts and Science
University of Missouri-=C7olubmia
Columbia, Missouri 65211
------------------------------
End of hist_text-digest V1 #14
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