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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #9 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Monday, January 26 1998 Volume 01 : Number 009 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:15:09 EST From: KarmannMan <KarmannMan@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: FCC I went to the fcc page, and found information very contrary to what was said in the last posting. Of course I don't want anything to happen to make my internet bill to go up, but I really don't think that anything like that is going to happen soon. I encourage all members of this list to check out this web site. . . http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Factsheets/ispfact.html It should be very informative. If anybody can prove me wrong I would really apriciate it, because like I stated earlier I don't really want to pay more for this service than I have to. Thanks Matthew Ellis "Hasty Retreat" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:34:22 -0700 From: "Sickler, Louis L" <louis.l.sickler@lmco.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Primitive fire making This is in response to a question by Richard Spencer about primitive fire making. I have been successful in creating FIRE (not just smoke) using the following implements: cottonwood fire board cottonwood drill cedar bow (or any other wood, since it doesn't enter into the equation) with homemade rawhide lace for string soapstone bearing block Drill preparation: get a one foot or so length of dry cottonwood limb, as straight as possible. Whittle the fireboard end to a sharper point than the bearing block end. Also with your knife, carve flat spots in the drill parallel with the length of it, This will allow the rawhide lace to GRAB better. It's hard to believe, but the action of the lace will actually smooth the drill out so much that it will begin to slip. These flat spots will have to be recarved periodically. Fireboard preparation: Put a small dent in the fireboard with a knife where the center of the drill would be. Then take the drill, put it in this dent and rotate it with the bow to burn a hole for the drill to move in when you are ready to 'make fire'. This mates the drill and fire board, too. Then cut or carve a triangular notch on the edge of the fire board in to the center of the hole made above. This will allow the red hot coals to drop down onto my tinder. Bow preparation: Get a slightly curved piece of wood (I like cedar) and tie the lace firmly to each end. Making FIRE: Gather up a good handful of tinder (tow mixed with cedar bark, cedar bark alone, good dry grass, etc.). When collecting grass for tinder, I always try it with a lighter / match first to see if it will catch easy. If not, I look elsewhere. Some grasses just don't seem to want to burn at all! If it does, I collect a good bag full for future use. Place the tinder under the notch and secure the fire board with your right foot. Kneel down on your left knee and get good & comfortable, you may be here for a while at first. Wrap the rawhide lace around the drill once so that the drill is on the outside of the loop made by the bow and lace, instead of the inside. This a little hard to explain but try it and you'll see the difference. Now you can let go of the bow and place the drill into the hole in the fire board and pin the drill down at the top with the bearing block of your choice. Now grab the bow and start sawing back & forth, rotating the drill slowly at first to get the hang of it. If you see smoke, start sawing faster and faster and apply more pressure on the bearing block until there is a lot of black wood residue (hopefully with some red glowing embers) built up in the notch and on your tinder. It takes some practice to know when to stop, but check it once in a while and you'll start to recognize various stages of hot ember creation. When you think you have enough (or any) embers lying in your tinder, carefully remove the fireboard from on top of the tinder, pick it up and lightly blow on the coals. If they are there in sufficient quantity, you can get the tinder to catch fire easily. Some references say to use a soft (pine) fireboard and a hard (oak) drill. But i have never even come close to fire with this combo. Too much resin in the pine and the oak drill right through even getting it very hot. The cottonwood on cottonwood really works well and has always been in large supply here in Colorado, especially along the Platte. I hope this helps, I'd be glad to clarify any points I haven't made clear enough. PRACTICE and you'll get fire !!! A good reference for review is John McPherson's Primitive Living Skills book. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:51:22 -0700 From: William Metcalfe <wmi@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: FCC It appears the first message in the subject chain was somewhat inaccurate. However, The current public notice, DA 98-2, issued on January 5, 1998, and requesting public comment may be need of concern. The comments filed with the FCC will be used by the Commission to help define several types of services and would thereby set jurisdiction. Per minute charges may well become a state jurisdictional issue with rates set by the state PUC or legislature. The folowing information was coppied from the FCC web site: THE FCC, INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDERS, AND ACCESS CHARGES This fact sheet offers informal guidance on an issue that has generated a great deal of public interest. For more specific details about the proceedings currently before the Commission, please visit our web site (http://www.fcc.gov/). In December 1996, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) requested public comment on issues relating to the charges that Internet Service Providers (ISPs) and similar companies pay to local telephone companies. On May 7, 1997, the FCC decided to leave the existing rate structure in place. In other words, the FCC decided not to allow local telephone companies to impose per-minute access charged on ISPs. Please Note: There is no open comment period in this proceeding. If you have recently seen a message on the Internet stating that in response to a request from local telephone companies, the FCC is requesting comments to <isp@fcc.gov> by February 1998, be aware that this information is inaccurate. The FCC issued an unrelated public notice, DA 98-2, on January 5, 1998 in connection with a report to Congress on universal service. Pursuant to the FCC's 1998 appropriations legislation, the Commission must submit a report by April 10, 1998 on several issues including the legal status of Internet services under the Telecommunications Act of 1996. Comments in response to the public notice are due January 20, 1998, and reply comments are due February 2, 1998. Informal comments may be sent by email to <usreport@fcc.gov>. Carlson Wagonlit Travel wrote: > > I just got off the phone with the FCC in Washington. The information > >about the phone companies wanting to charge a per minute rate for > >internet users is a fact. > snip>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >Matt Mitchell > > Carlson Wagonlit Travel / Travel Agents International > 1420 South Blaine St. Ste. 5 > Moscow, ID. 83843 > 208-882-7667 > 208-882-2870 fax > http://www1.turbonet.com/tai > http://www.enquest.com - -- William Metcalfe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:43:59 -0800 From: Neal Ulevich <nulevich@sni.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Friction Fire Making At 08:15 AM 1/23/98 -0800, you wrote: >Hello the camp? >(wouldn't Bridger have loved to have EMail) > > I have been following this list for about a month. My real interest is >in primative fire making... >Richard Spencer "Primative Fire and Cordage", an illustrated pamphlet by John McPherson, covers in detail native American methods for making fire by means of friction (bow/drill). Write to him at P.O. Box 96, Randolph, KS 66554. "Making Sure-Fire Tinder", an illustrated pamphlet by David S. Ripplinger, discusses flint/steel/charcloth methods and materials, including instructions for making charcloth. Write to Track of the Wolf, Inc., Box Y, Osseo, MN 55369. While the flint/fire steel method of making fire must have been as common in the fur trade period as plastic butane lighters are today, I'm puzzled by the fact that I've seen relatively few fire steels in museums or elsewhere. The fifteen or so in my collection are all period reproductions, save two of foreign (Tibetan) origin. I understand linen was the material of choice for charcloth during the fur trade period. I'd like to read a period account of procedures for making charcloth (as opposed to more recent accounts). If anyone knows of such, please come ahead with citations. Best, Neal Ulevich ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:32:42 -0500 From: "Scott Allen" <allen@blueridge-ef.SAIC.COM> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Friction Fire Making Neal, I can't agree that linen was the most common thing used as char. I don't see these guys buying and carrying a bunch of material around for char. I use punkwood or touchwood which is easily picked up in the woods as I ramble about. Punkwood is wood that is rotted and dried to the point of being almost of styrofoam consistancy. Touchwood is the gray horseshoe shaped fungus found on the side of trees. You can char these as you would cloth or simply place in the fire until charred to the right stage where it will hold a spark. Your most humble servant, Scott Allen Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick Fairplay, MD http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:09:15 From: Carlson Wagonlit Travel <travel@turbonet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: FCC I stand corrected and humbled. There is nothing at this time before the FCC. Again I called the FCC and got a person that knew what was going on. There is "no attempt"at this time by the phone companies to get a per-minute rate. That event was last years news and was not approved by the FCC. I will post this message back to the list as I was one of those that put out this incorrect information. My appologies to you and to the list . Open Mouth Insert Keyboard. Matt Mitchell Palouse Hills Muzzleloaders Moscow, Idaho travel@turbonet.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:35:54 -0700 From: Neal Ulevich <nulevich@sni.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Friction Fire Making Yes you're right on punk and touchwood as field expedients. I stand corrected. Linen and flax fiber from rags, worn out clothing, were more common tinder in the settlements. best, NU At 03:32 PM 1/23/98 -0500, you wrote: >Neal, > >I can't agree that linen was the most common thing used as char. I >don't see these guys buying and carrying a bunch of material around >for char. I use punkwood or touchwood which is easily picked up in >the woods as I ramble about. Punkwood is wood that is rotted and >dried to the point of being almost of styrofoam consistancy. >Touchwood is the gray horseshoe shaped fungus found on the side of >trees. You can char these as you would cloth or simply place in the >fire until charred to the right stage where it will hold a spark. > > >Your most humble servant, >Scott Allen >Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick >Fairplay, MD >http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:35:31 EST From: RR1LA <RR1LA@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Primitive fire making Dear Richard (and all other interested parties) , Louis provided a perfect description of the process to make fire using a "bow drill". A similar situation can be achieved with- out the use of rawhide lace or the necessity of making cordage to "string the bow". A similar device, the hand drill, is done using a softer drill tip (like Yucca). Cattail or willow will also work. This method requires a lot more practice, and is easiest if two people are available, one to spin the drill and the other to apply pressure down from the top of the drill. In short, to making fire this way, you assume a comfortable position with the fireboard blocked between your feet, and use a longer drill (about 30"). Keeping the drill perpendicular, your hands must come down straight, ,spinning the drill back and forth as your hands drop from the top to about 6" above the board. Upon reaching the lowest point, lift your hands ONE AT A TIME, so you can keep constant downward pressure on the drill, and prevent air from reaching and cooling your coal. As John McPherson says "this procedure WILL wear you out" and ..."do a lot of practicing before you even think ' fire '." The referrence Louis was speaking of is: Naked Into The Wilderness, Primitive Wilderness Living & Survival Skills by John & Geri McPherson. It is published by Prairie Wolf, POB 96, Randolph, Kansas 66554. This book has many primitive skills laid out in a concise, easy to understand format. Hope this helps, PJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:33:21 EST From: tedhart@juno.com (Ted A Hart) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Log homes and such On Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:37:56 -0600 (CST) mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) writes: >>Ted, >> >>Tell me more about the movie "Old Man River". I'm real interested in >>catahoulas and would like to see how they are used in the movie. Ok basically all it showed were two or three dogs on the boat when it's raining.....just a five second shot but since catahoulas are/or were common around the South....just like blackmouth curs are. >What's a catahoula? Back in the early days of this century there was >a >baseball team called the Catahoula Dirt Movers. > >HBC > >***************************************** >Henry B. Crawford Catahoula comes from the American Indian origin but I don't know the meaning and also catahoulas supposedly orgininated in the Catahoula Parish area of Louisiana. But one distinction....there are two breeds with nearly the same name but somewhat different...Leopard curs....and the breed Louisiana Leopard Catahoula (the only official state dog that I know of....Louisiana). They look different as Leopard curs don't have the "haunting" eyes that I will describe in my next post shortly. Be forewarned that I love catahoulas to the point I will talk to anyone about them and me being deaf doesn't infere! I intend to get a male sometime when I move to a house. Ted ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:33:21 EST From: tedhart@juno.com (Ted A Hart) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Log homes and such On Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:06:59 -0500 "Scott Allen" <allen@blueridge-ef.SAIC.COM> writes: >Henry, > >A Catahoula is one of the original American bred hunting dogs. They >are said to be a cross of the Spanish war dogs (mastiff and >greyhound) with the red wolf. After Spanish explorers were defeated >in battle by the local (Louisiana) Indians, some of the war dogs were >captured and cross bred. The result is the Catahoula Leopard Cur. >They are said to be one of the finest hunting and just all around >dogs you can get and very authentic to our chosen time periods. >There are several breeders of these in Texas, so you can probably >see one locally. You can also get to several websites about them by >just doing a search thru your favorite engine. Just type in catahoula >curs and step back! > > >Your most humble servant, >Scott Allen Ok...FYI Jim Bowie was said to own two of 'em. Said they were tough as shoe leather :) Now the following info I'm about to give you is taken from the N.A.L.C. (National Association of Louisiana Catahoulas) flier that I received when getting Sarah Blue's papers. As you walk up to the fence, you are instantly greeted by some very strange looking dogs. In one yard there is a large, dark spotted dog with dark eyes; or in another yard, it could be a light, blue-grey Leopard with white trim, but you only notice his coloring after you take your eyes off the haunting white eyes of the animal which has been staring straight at you ever since you first approached. The closer you come, the higher the hair stands up along the dog's back, reminding you of a razor-back hog. The dogs may run up to the fence, bark, show their teeth and then run to their house and back and forth to the fence.....not a very warm welcome at any rate! Then the dog's master comes out to greet you and makes the dog back off, or ties him to a tree. Now it's safe for you to enter the yard. You have just been introduced to the Louisiana Catahoula Leopard...to some a great stockdog and to others, and all time great family protector and watchdog. Later when you are going home, you are amazed to see that same dog playing with a child. The children run and play, pull his ears and pat his head, and you wonder if the child is about to lose his arm...but you are only seeing another side of the very versatile Catahoula, a family dog and a lover of little ones (small side note my dog goes nuts over kids more than on adults). This dog will tolerate anything from the children for whom he has formed an affection. Watching the dog, you see him walk over to a place and all at once just "flop" down like a junkyard dog; get up and prance around with his tail held high like a show dog; or approach with his tail between his legs like a whipped pup. These are all characteristics of the breed. Many a Catahoula owner has gone hunting squirrel or hogs in the morning, penned a few cows that afternoon and had a good coon hunt that night....all with the same pair of dogs. The COON HUNTER would love to see a Catahoula fight an ole' coon in a creek. Down here, they stopped putting Catahoulas in the "Coon on a Log" trails because it just wasn't fair for the coon to lose all the time. For the DEER HUNTER, you can hunt and go home with your dog...all in the same day. Around here (Louisiana) some hunters use Walkers (hound breed) and they run deer for a day and spend the next 3 days looking for their dogs. The Catahoulas are short-range dogs. They are the best silent trailers and bay dogs on earth. Some trail on the ground, but most of the wind. (side note...in some states (Texas in particular) you aren't allowed to hunt deer with dogs unless the deer has been wounded) HOG HUNTERS need to know that the Catahoulas are also called "coward" dogs because of the way they hunt and/or work hogs. They bark, snap and run. This is a born instinct, telling the dog that to aggrevate the hogs will make them follow, and this way he can get them to follow him for miles to a pen; or a short way to something that he can make a hog back up against...baying the hogs until his master comes. What would some city folks think of our great dog if they saw the Catahoula bark at a hog and turn tail and run...with the hog right on his heels??? Yep, COWARD. But we know that the Catahoula is about as dumb as a sly fox. For the COW MAN the Catahoula uses the same instinct in herding cattle. If the cow man goes in and tries to move the cows before he has let his Catahoulas work, bunch, circle, and calm the herd, he is wasting his time and making it hard on his dogs, because cows will break and run, causing the dogs to leave the herd to catch the stray. So, a word to the wise is "sit back and let your Catahoulas do what comes naturally...and that is, tease, circle and bay until the cows calm down and bunch up, then the master can move in and slowly start the herd moving. The Catahoulas will keep them bunched together until they are penned. Then, put your Catahoulas in the back of your truck and park it any place, because as the old cowboys used to say...and still say,,,,"Your truck will be intact with Ole Lep in the back." (I deleted some more stuff that was related to above stuff (training in particular) but will end with following personal note) Catahoulas have the best eyesight of any dog breed I've seen...they even beat Border Collies. They'll notice something you wouldn't notice or any other dog wouldn't notice but they do like for example you are sitting in your living room and he's playing (they are forever playing till the day they die) with something that turns out to be a tiny piece of string! Their eye color can be glass(pale blue so pale it's white), blue, yellow, green, amber, and brown. Can be cracked (two eye colors mixed up in one eye) or mixed eye colors in each eye. Their body coloring is varied from (most common) blue w/black spots or tan/w red or rust spots (mine) to any other color...can be solid...can be white but not recommended as they tend to be deaf and blind resulting in less good life. Picture a very muscular Dalamation with above coloring and you've got the Catahoula. Very tough! But a good dog...tends to be one person dog or family dog and very protective but not to the point they scare people off like a Rottweiler or some such. Word to the wise.....don't try to hit them if you lose your temper because they have memories like elephants and won't work for you ever again or if they got hurt in a situation (like my dog hates street grates or potholes because she got hurt in one as a pup) they will try to avoid the situation. They will TRY your patience till they get to around 6 months of age or so. On the plus side they love to play. But they take quite a while to get toilet trained so be very patient during the process! Now back to last two paragraphs of the article. So now you can see why the Louisiana Catahoula Leopard has lasted so long, because if you can use a dog in so many useful ways and train him to your own needs, you will make sure that you always have one around. (there are some families that have had them for over 100 years!) That same "haunting" dog you met when you arrived, can go home with you and become "your" dog, all of the above and more, if you have the time to work with him, a place to let him run and the patience to make him YOURS. N.A.L.C., Inc. P.O. Box 1041 Denham Springs, LA 70727 504-665-6082 If you are in Texas give me an e-mail call and I know some people who have pups ready to go and some breeders in the Texas area. Can't wait to train my pup for hog hunting and cow herding :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:57:18 -0700 (MST) From: earlalan@srv.net (Allen Hall) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Primitive fire making >This is also in response to a question by Richard Spencer about primitive >fire making. > I've had good luck with a cottonwood fire board, and a willow spindle. I use a piece of hardwood for the socket, and a willow bow with deer rawhide. Works good for me, made fire everytime I tried. A friend of mine, Mike Powell, says that sage makes a great spindle if you find the right sized piece. I'm happy so far with the willow and cottonwood combo. There's plenty of both here in Fort Hall country. Good luck, let us know how it turns out for you. Allen Hall ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:21:24 -0800 From: terry landis <"landis1@gte.net"@gte.net> Subject: MtMan-List: mtman-list:tva long arms I am considering a tennesse valley arms front loader. how do they rate?also does anyone have some suggestions for a full stock hunting rifle? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 07:57:01 -0800 From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Friction Fire Making This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD289D.A7384060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just couldn't resist a comment: Well Mr. Richard 1st thing Brother Jim B couldn't read and write. But he could recite all of Shakespeare's sonnets some one spent the winter with him and read them to him over and over and Jim was able to recite them quite well. He would turn them around and use them a stories which he was noted for also. I'm some one else can Broaden the story but I am to lazy to look up the reference. My good Brother John Kramer can light a candle with char cloth, flint and steel I'll let John tell us how. I have a video of John made in 86 lighting a candle. I learn real well and my best time is 8 seconds the worst was a half a can of char and 5 minutes. How embarrassing but I got over it. I have entertain many folks at doin's. A bow and drill is iffy at best I have seen smart asses take hours to get a fire going. I can do it but I am not an expert. A good friend Ivan Sherk made a statement once a party meeting about how many people could start a fire with a bow and drill. every one said yea yea I did that in boy scouts and no problem so Ivan the kinda of guy he is brought several sets the next time there was a meeting and told every one they couldn't go home until everyone started a fire. Well after several hours well after Midnight they were allowed to go home. I wouldn't even try to write out how to start a fire with a flint and steel. But look up a black powder shoot or reenactment and I am sure some one will show you. I am sure that the 1800 time frame they used linen for char or other materials that they had. I don't think cotton but modern man uses cotton (100%) I use linen myself I like the way it works I use unbleached. I like the courcenest. I am sure some one else will write on the subject. Later Jon Towns - --------- : From: Richard Spencer <omega_strings@eee.org> : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Subject: MtMan-List: Friction Fire Making : Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 8:15 AM : : Hello the camp? : (wouldn't Bridger have loved to have Email) : : I have been following this list for about a month. My real interest is : in primitive fire making. Since matches were not invented until around : 1830 and were not widely available until after 1850, I'm sure that many : of you pay as much attention to period details in fire making as you do : to the other areas I have read of on this list. : My question is what is known in your circles about primitive fire : making, particularly friction fire making? What materials are best for : the fire board, drill rod, etc? What material did the Mt. Men use to : make char cloth? I would also ask for those who practice friction fire : making (those who can produce FLAMES not just smoke)to share their : secrets. : I look forward to hearing what insight you, as a group, can give me. : : Richard Spencer - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD289D.A7384060 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"> I just couldn't resist a comment: = Well Mr. Richard 1st thing Brother Jim B couldn't read and = write. But he could recite all of Shakespeare's sonnets some one = spent the winter with him and read them to him over and over and Jim was = able to recite them quite well. He would turn them around and use = them a stories which he was noted for also. I'm some one else can = Broaden the story but I am to lazy to look up the reference. = My good Brother John Kramer can light a candle with char = cloth, flint and steel I'll let John tell us how. I have a video = of John made in 86 lighting a candle. I learn real well and my = best time is 8 seconds the worst was a half a can of char and 5 = minutes. How embarrassing but I got over it. I have = entertain many folks at doin's. A bow and drill is iffy at = best I have seen smart asses take hours to get a fire going. I can = do it but I am not an expert. A good friend Ivan Sherk made a = statement once a party meeting about how many people could start a fire = with a bow and drill. every one said yea yea I did that in boy = scouts and no problem so Ivan the kinda of guy he is brought several = sets the next time there was a meeting and told every one they couldn't = go home until everyone started a fire. Well after several hours = well after Midnight they were allowed to go home. I = wouldn't even try to write out how to start a fire with a flint and = steel. But look up a black powder shoot or reenactment and I = am sure some one will show you. I am sure that the 1800 = time frame they used linen for char or other materials that they had. = I don't think cotton but modern man uses cotton (100%) I use = linen myself I like the way it works I use unbleached. I like the = courcenest. I am sure some one else will write on the subject. = Later Jon Towns = --------- : From: Richard Spencer <omega_strings@eee.org> : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Subject: MtMan-List: Friction Fire Making : = Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 8:15 AM : : Hello the camp? : = (wouldn't Bridger have loved to have Email) : : I have been = following this list for about a month. My real interest is : in = primitive fire making. Since matches were not invented until around : = 1830 and were not widely available until after 1850, I'm sure that = many : of you pay as much attention to period details in fire making = as you do : to the other areas I have read of on this list. : = My question is what is known in your circles about primitive = fire : making, particularly friction fire making? What materials are = best for : the fire board, drill rod, etc? What material did the Mt. = Men use to : make char cloth? I would also ask for those who practice = friction fire : making (those who can produce FLAMES not just = smoke)to share their : secrets. : I look forward to hearing = what insight you, as a group, can give me. : : Richard = Spencer </body></html> - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD289D.A7384060-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:09:42 -0800 From: Dale Nelson <dnelson@wizzards.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Friction Fire Making Richard Spencer wrote: > My real interest is > in primative fire making. Northwestern Video Priductions has two videos you might be interested in. One is called Primitive Life Skills and it has a section on friction fire and the other is How to Make Fire by Friction. This one features Jim Riggs and he does a hand drill and a bow drill fire. This is a good one that gets up close so you can really see what's going on. If you are interested the snail mail address is P. O. Box 251, Roseburg, OR 97470. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:06:26 -0500 From: "Fred A. Miller" <fmiller@lightlink.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mtman-list:tva long arms - -----Original Message----- From: terry landis <"landis1@gte.net"@gte.net> To: hist_text@xmission.com <hist_text@xmission.com> Date: Saturday, January 24, 1998 3:25 PM Subject: MtMan-List: mtman-list:tva long arms >I am considering a tennesse valley arms front loader. how do they >rate?also does anyone have some suggestions for a full stock hunting >rifle? TVA is all right....a tad high priced, IMHO. You might want to take a look at Deer Creeks Wilderness Rifle Works line...all made in Waldron, IN. They have a So. Mtn. Rifle I've very fond of....flinter in .50, and also the Cumberland, a PA "poorboy." I have the later in .36 percussion. A good dealer for them is: Bob G. at: bob@plan-et.com. He can send you a color brochure, etc. Regards, Fred ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:17:40 EST From: RR1LA <RR1LA@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mtman-list:tva long arms Wanted to let everyone know that I have both a 'poor boy' .54 flint long rifle, and a matching pistol from Tennessee Valley Manufacturing (Jack Garner), and they are both terrific weapons. First time out with the rifle I won 1st place at the Holcomb Valley (CA) RDV against 151 shooters, and the Pistol is, if you'll excuse the expression, also 'nuts on'. Their delivery may be a little slow, due to hand production, the quality of furniture and finish is A1, and you can't beat the Southern hospitality that comes with every phone call. If anybody wants any further info, please feel free to contact me direct. PJ. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:18:48 -0700 From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Nick names/ camp names I don't have the information to document it, but hope this grad student's research is published this year and it may include something about Black Harris. I met him at the Sept. fur trade symposium in Pinedale, but can't remember his name. He's one of Fred Gowans' grad student's, however, and we should be able to ask Gowans for an update on the research. I believe they have documented that almost half the trappers at the 1824 rendezvous were Iroquois. Somebody speculated that a lot of those were the trappers who defected from Peter Skene Ogden's Brigade. Long before then the Northwest Company employed Iroquois as "hunters." David Thompson's journal in particular records the independence of the Iroqois hunters compared to the "engagee" voyageurs. Small groups of Iroquois hunters wandered the Rocky Mountains living like free trappers from at least as early as David Thompson's crossing of the Rockies. Most of these Iroquois were descended from the part of the tribe that converted to Christianity when the French first moved inland along the St. Lawrence and had been living and working along side the Europeans from that time. It is difficult to identify which of the French-surnamed (and often Scottish surnamed) trappers were Iroquois or Metis. The following offer some evidence that Black Harris may have been one whose roots went back to Iroquois along the St. Lawerence: Alfred Jacob Miller depicted him as very dark complected and with sparse facial hair. Miller also recorded him wearing a hunting-hood hat of the type that has it's origens among the Indian's of the Northeast. Black was a common Iroquois name. He is closely associated with many of the French-named trappers. - -----Original Message----- From: TetonTod <TetonTod@aol.com> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 10:29 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Nick names/ camp names >First I've heard`of Moses "Black" Harris being an Iroquois. I'm interested in >further details. > >Todd Glover > > ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #9 ***************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.