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hist_text-digest      Thursday, January 22 1998      Volume 01 : Number 007




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:05:34 -0700 (MST)
From: Dale Byrd <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Fur Trapping Season?

Hi Everyone:

When is the best season for trapping?  Is it winter, fall, spring, etc??

Back in the mid 1850's around the Canadian border, what pelts or furs were
common?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,


Dale

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:03:14 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Angela Gottfred)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nick Names/Camp Names

Clay Landry wrote:
>While there seems to be good evidence that some fur brigade Captains and
>leaders had Indian styled names such as "Broken Hand" and "Blanket Chief" it
>does not appear that the other white trappers referred to them by these
>handles.<snip>
>No where in the literature of the Rocky Mountain fur trade can I find a
>historical precident or inference for trappers hanging Indian styled names
>on one another.

Clay, I quite agree with you that the ubiquitous "rendezvous names" seem to
be a modern phenomenon. In the W. Canadian fur trade, 1774-1821, almost
everyone went by the names their mothers gave them. However, there are a
small number of examples of nicknames.

North West Company wintering partner John Macdonald of Garth might be
familiar to those folks studying Astoria's later years. In letters, he was
referrred to as John Macdonald (Garth) to distinguish him from another
prominent John Macdonald of the North West Company. (Historians carry on the
distinction for the same reason.) In his memoirs, he says that the voyageurs
called him "bras croche" (crooked arm) because he had a withered right arm.

Simon McTavish ran the North West Company with an iron hand until his death
in 1804. Nor'westers called him "The Marquis" behind his back.

George Simpson, who ran the HBC in Canada for many years was called "The
Little Emperor" (behind his back) because, like Napoleon, he was small in
stature but still very powerful.

John Rowand Sr., who ran Fort Edmonton for many years, was called "One Pound
One"  because he had a bad leg, which he dragged when he walked, making a
sound like "one pound one" as he crossed the floor.

Joseph Landry, who was Nor'wester Alexander Mackenzie's steersman in 1789,
on his Arctic Ocean voyage, and again in 1793, on his voyage to the Pacific,
was called "Cadien" (Acadian) because he was born in the old Acadian area of
what is now New Brunswick & Nova Scotia.  Another voyageur, Charles
Doucette, was also called "Cadien" for the same reason.

In fact, voyageurs seem to have been more likely to have had nicknames than
non-voyageurs (although nicknames were not at all usual). The French word
"dit" (pronounced "dee" or "deet") means "called" and Joseph Landry's full
name is Joseph Landry dit Cadien. There are other voyageurs with "dit"
surnames--Jean-Baptiste Boucher dit Waccan, Joseph Pelletier dit Antaya--and
quite frankly I don't really understand "dit" surnames, except that, as the
above examples show, they are not always French nicknames (neither Waccan
nor Antaya are French words, so far as I know). Some French names of
voyageurs, such as La Malice and La Framboise, might be nicknames
("Malice/Trick", "Raspberry"). Since English has proper surnames like
"Greenwood" ("Boisverd" in French), and Japanese has surnames like "Tanaka"
("middle field"), I'm not going to jump to any conclusions about La Malice
and La Framboise without further research.

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:31:35 -0600
From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:  A gift answers

Washtahay-
At 03:57 PM 1/17/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-17 00:22:32 EST, you write:
>
><<  Well, actually, it is.  Commonly sold as wootz.  If you can call a
> commodity like that "common".
>
>Wouldn't call it "common" cuz I wasn't aware of it being made.
        As far as I know, it is still on an experimental basis.  Very hard
to make on anything approaching a cost-effective basis.
>
><  True damascus steel was apparently made by packing small pieces of
> wrought iron in a carbon bearing material, then sealing in some type of
> container (probably clay).
>
>Excelent description of "crucible steel".  From my sources, Damascus was
>hammered & folded, not "cooked".
        Let me rephrase my earlier comments...the fabled steel that made the
reputation of Damascus steel is the wootz.  Try this...take a silk scarf and
drop it on the cutting edge of a 'common' pattern-welded blade (not
Japanese).  Then do it with a wootz blade.  The scarf will drop in two
pieces from the wootz blade.   The 'edge' that the Japanese blade has seems
to be from the differential heat treatment it received, then the sharpening
process employed.  'Common' pattern weld won't take an edge like that.

        Wootz differs from crucible steel in that, as I recall, wootz has
larger carbide particles, is cooked at a different temp and for a different
amount of time, and pre-dates crucible steel by about 1000+ years.


>< I do know that bog iron is still available, just not in the large quantities
>that are
> necessary to be commercially viable.
>
>Where?  Would like to play with some!

        Well, I got about 1000 pounds by writing to a history teacher near
an old source of bog iron.  He came up with the ore from a local source.
The stuff is still there, but it is no longer worth refining.  Its greater
purity and ease of refinement don't outweigh the small quantities.  Kinda
like meteoric iron-with a little luck and the right contacts, you can get it.
>
> <   By definition, steel is iron with the addition of carbon.
>
>Strange -- one of the problems with wedlability of cast iron is due to it's
>high carbon content.
        Hey, I just use these terms, i didn't make them up!
>
> <   From what I have seen, the pattern welded steel from Atlanta Cutlery
> and Damascus USA seems to lack some of the character of hand made steel.
> The pattern is too 'even' for want of a better word.  It also seems to have
> a lower carbon content than steel available from some of the custom makers,
> so it might not hold an edge as well as the steel in a custom knife.
>
>I was going to try some sometime, but we have a local producer that makes some
>nice stuff.  Sounds like they just weld the flat bars & don't do much layer
>manipulation.
        Yep.  And the more I think about it, the more I wonder if they don't
have a carbon migration problem.  Anyone reading my comments about Atlanta
Cutlery's steel should know that I haven't examined a sample in about a year.

>Have you seen the book "Complete Bladesmith" by -- uh-oh I
>can't spell his last name -- starts with a "H" -- first name Jim -- can't find
>my copy either.  Atlanta Cutlery had some of his work 1 time only.  He's into
>medieval swords primarily but wrote 2 books on bladesmithing I've seen that
>are excelent -- I have (had) one of them.  Ah -- Found it!!  Jim Hrisoulas --
>ISBN 0-87364-430-1.
        Yeah, I have one of his blades.  Good steel, good workmanship.
>
>< On those rare occasions when I have wanted to put the work into
> making a pattern welded knife, I have used O1 steel and wrought iron.  It
> has always proven satisfactory for all uses to which I put a working knife.
>
>That aughta work fine.  O1 is excelent knife material.  I've always wanted to
>use wrought iron & 1095, but have problems finding the wrought iron.  When I
>DO find it, I generaly wind up using it before the mood strikes to make a
>knife 'cuz it welds so much easier than A36.
        Think wagon tires.  Around here (Nebraska) I can find wrought iron
wagon wheels easily.
>
><  I have done some experimenting with the small scale production of
> wootz, starting with bog iron.  It is a really cool steel, a real pleasure
> to use as a knife.  But it is too time, labor, and cost intensive for me.
> As a friend says, "It has a high value density".  And frankly, I am just not
> into it enough to do it.  I figure the 5" wootz blade I have took several
> hundred hours of research and experimentation, probably 200 hours of actual
> work to make the blade from the iron, and cost probably $300 in fuel, clay,
> iron, and burn ointment.  And it is still not perfect.
>
>Think I mentioned the phrase "labor intensive"!  I don't have a power hammer,
>so I have to do it the hard way.  That must have been a fun expirament!
>Probably a lot of "AW $HI+s!" involved too huh?
        Power WHAT?  Hey, I am talking a 200 pound anvil and me and a friend
with 8 pound sledges!
LongWalker c. du B.

------------------------------

Date: 19 Jan 1998 11:26:12 -0700
From: "Pat Quilter" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re Celestial navigation:

                      Re Celestial navigation:
Angela's husband Jeff responded to my surmises about celestial nagivation with
the voice of experience. I should state that I have never used a sextant, although
I can picture the elementary geometry. I am gratified that my attempt to explain
the basics of a complex subject brought a REAL navigator out of the woodwork.
Jeff reports a number of techniques which I could only surmise -- my thanks. I
know SLIGHTLY more about ocean navigation because my older brother has used celestial
navigation as a back up to, and sometimes in lieu of,  more modern navigational
methods while ferrying small aircraft around the world, and we both share a
great enjoyment of Patrick O'Brian's magnificent series on the early 19th
century British Navy, in which a little navigational technique is mentioned.
Thanks again for the full report!
   Jeff's mention of the Nautical Tables, and the descriptions of the 6-month
cram course in botany and navigation which Jefferson had Meriwether Lewis take
before the expedition, makes one appreciate how hard our ancestors worked to
obtain the results they got. They had only the most elementary observational
tools (a few books and basic instruments) and reporting methods (eyewitness
journals and sketches conveyed to seats of learning by slow surface
transportation), since EVERYTHING was hand made. Compared to today's glut of
data and frequently superficial methods of analysis, I can't help being struck by
the rigorous mental discipline and use of logic which enabled them to establish
elements of scientific discovery 200 years ago which still hold up today.
Pat Quilter.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:58:30 EST
From: CT OAKES <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:  shovel

In a message dated 98-01-19 00:13:43 EST, you write:

<<
 Mike
 the Sept/Oct Muzzleloader had a note in Prime Possibles about a small
 shovel that Arrowhead Forge was making, it was copied from "Collector's
 Illustrated Encyclopedia of the American Revolution" by Neumann and Kravic.
  Looks pretty good,  they want 20 bucks plus 5 for postage.  phone number
 is  605-938-4814.

  >>

I ordered one and it is really nice.  Looks just like the one in the book and
it is STRONG, he uses thick sheet steel and rivets.  My wife took one look at
it and said "good now take the modern shovel out of the trailer".  I will tell
you that the head is smaller then a modern spade and this means it will take
up less space in the trailer and maybe one or two more shovel fulls to dig a
fire pit.  But Arrowhead Forge does a nice job if you want a shovel.

Your humble servant

C.T. Oakes

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:46:41 EST
From: SWcushing <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Flashguards

How....the list,
 I'm headed up to the "Rain de voo" in Olympia, WA next month and I'm trying
to fit a flashguard to my smoothbore. The lock is a "Tulle" type and has an
unbridled frizzen....so the guard just goes under the screw that the frizzen
rotates on......if I tighten it up, it goes up and down with the frizzen. Is
this correct? .. or should it remain in a fixed postion. If I tighten the
screw down, the  frizzen will not flip up!    Bumming me out.......
On my rifle, ( it has a  large Siler) I've got a long screw and nut (it's got
a bridle) so not a problem.....and the flashguard remains fixed.
Steve

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:45:26 -0700
From: "David Tippets" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:  Time and Damascus Steel

Re:  Watches

Recently I surfed the net for information about antique pocket watches and
located quite a bit of information, including pictures of many antique
watches for sale.

I'm not sure how to tell the difference between a stem-wind watch and a key
wind watch by looking at pictures of them, but there are sure a number of
watches dated prior to 1850 that don't appear to have a key hole.

One interesting item from David Thompson's journal during his early years
with the Hudson Bay Co. prior to his defection to the North West Fur Co., is
that just as soon a clock was available that the HBC considered dependable
and accurate enough to calculating longitude the Company immediately shipped
Thompson one from England.  There were no details about what the timepiece
was like.

I can't recall where I saw the photograph, but within the last year I saw a
picture of one of the great western explorer's pocket watches.  It was a
fairly ordinary looking watch, but was protected inside an inletted hinged
solid hardwood case which increases its bulk to a degree that it would have
fit inside few pockets.  The bulky wooden case suggests to me that just
because it was a pocket watch doesn't mean that it was casually carried
inside the explorer's pocket while blazing trails through the Rocky
Mountains.  They may have treated them with the same respect that they
treated the sextant or other scientific instruments.  Thompson also managed
to carry thermometers up and down and across North America without breaking
them.


- -----Original Message-----
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Time and Damascus Steel


>At 08:21 AM 1/14/98 -0700, Jon wrote:
>>
>>There was watches in the mountains and were not uncommon.  What I want to
>>know how did they keep them dry.  They had key wound watches don't know
>>when stem watches came into being.
>>
>
>Stem wound watches are after 1850.  Watches were very expensive.  It would
>be difficult to keep one dry and functional in the mountains, for long.
>I've had a couple of nice old ones (key wind) in perfect condition.  Never
>could keep one running two weeks in the mountains.
>
>A watch would have been uncommon except perhaps for Stewart, Fremont,
>Bonneville and the like.  It ain't like they had parking meters to feed and
>meetings to attend or a Day Planner to keep track of.  Not a very useful
>tool in the mountains.  An expensive luxury of greatest value to surveyors,
>cartographers and such.
>
>John...
>Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
>John Kramer
>[e-mail]
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:15:07 EST
From: DJZapfel <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nick Names/Camp Names

Can someone direct me to a place where I can pick Osbourne Russlls
book,"Jouranl of a Trapper?" I went to my local bookstore and they had no clue
what I was lokking for.

Thanks
Don Zapfel

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:39:01 EST
From: DJZapfel <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nick Names/Camp Names

I tell ya speakin' of those good ole camp names, I've got a story for all ya.
About four or five years ago, up here in the mighty Wisconsin, at the
Saukville randayvooze we were sippin' some of the finest applepie, the best
home brew, and so on. Well I was there with Coffeeman, Del, Casts a Large
Shadow and God only knows who else. My crazy brother, Jimbo was in need of
serious greenbacks for the need of that stuff that powers an iron horse. Well,
dear Jimbo had this bright idea, he's make a penny or three off the
flatlanders that come through camp, but they weren't falling for those blanket
goodies. it was late and Jimbo was a cryin' about his woes and all that. Casts
a Large Shadow says, "don't you worry dear Jimbo, you'll be okay. You just
have to make some skins some other way." And that is where it all began.

Casts A Large Shadow, who likes a hot thing from time to time had the hottest
peppers around that night, Habenjeros adn Itell you what one those crazy
skinners dared ole Jimbo dip his skinners pride into well, them there peppers
for a couple of bucks. Jimbo being a free trapper, a crazy skinner, a
"mountainman" upped the anty for more cash. Soon there was a couple greenbacks
all ready for the taken'.

Well Jimbo saw the green comin' to life before hsi eyes, in fact now he would
be able to feed the iron horse and feed himself too. So Jimbo went about with
a dippin' his pride and as soon as he did, well, lets just say all the
skinners around were shocked and surprised. Jimbo took that pepper saucelike a
trooper, and didn't sqeal or hoolar or nuthin". Not until he ran off and cried
like a squaw on firewater.

Well, after that night, he was given the nickname "Dooper."

Shortly there after ole Dooper got himself a baby girl and you know what, she
is a red head, go figure.

Enjoy this tale everyone,

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:36:37 EST
From: Nauga Mok <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nick Names/Camp Names

In a message dated 98-01-18 22:04:32 EST, you write:

<< Anybody got any idea why they called Bridger "Gabe?". >>

Short for Gabriel -- he was always ready to bail someone out of trouble, so
was in effect their "grardian angel".  Also refered to his leadership
abilities.  Supposedly given to him by Jed Smith.
NM

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:11:07 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1860 Army Colt

>Well I'm sure alot of folks will have their own ideas but I usually use
>boiling water with dishwashing liquid in it and soak it until the water
>cools off. The screw driver should fit the slotjust as others have said
>also if the screw driver is hollow ground it helps also.


What's hollow ground?

HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
********    "Eat with gusto and enthusiasm"    ********

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:47:20 EST
From: Nauga Mok <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Log homes and such

In a message dated 98-01-18 13:39:55 EST, you write:

<< It's about historically correct log homes.  I'm interested in a
 particular style that's supposedly prevalent in the South.  Dog-trot log
 homes to be extact.  >>

Best source I know of is "The Foxfire Book" ISBN 0-385-07353-4 Edited by Eliot
Wigginton.  There's a whole series of "Foxfore Books" -- this is vol one of
the set.  Covers cabin building, chimney building, shingle making -- 'bout all
you need to know 'bout building a log cabin.
NM

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:04:06 EST
From: TetonTod <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nick Names/Camp Names

Clay,

       This is an excellent topic and I look forward to some good responses.
I'm just afraid we're in for a barrage of examples and explanations of modern
"Mountain Man names."  Still it was worth the asking. Maybe it all began with
Alexander the Great?


Todd Glover

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 98 18:21:25 +0000
From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nick Names/Camp Names

Jim Bridger by Cecil Alter p. 110 says that as a LT under Smith and
Sublette that Bridger had some success at communicating the word of authority.
The angel Gabriel had the mythical duty of revealing God's will and to
Smith's mind the Bible enabled him to see Bridger as Old Gabriel.
Don Keas


Dean Rudy wrote:
>At 03:04 PM 1/17/98 -0700, Clay wrote:
>
>>Osborne Russell describes the nick names of several mountaineers in a
>>passage from his book-"Journal of a Trapper", page 39. He tells of the
camp
>>keeper "art" of cooking "poor bull" by beating it with a club and says
"He
>>then drops his club and draws his butcher knife calling to his comrades
>>"Come Major, Judge, Squire, Dollar, Pike, Cotton, and Gabe wont you
take
>>lunch of Simon?" The editor of Russell's book, Aubrey Haines, tells us
in a
>>foot note that by these nicknames Russell is refering to Joe Meek as
>>"Major", George Ebberts as "Squire", Cotton Mansfield as "Cotton", and
James
>>Bridger as "Gabe". Haines also thinks that "Judge" may have been
Russell's
>>nick name.
>
>I've always wondered about that, and what evidence Haines had.  Russell
did
>indeed become a judge when he settled in Oregon after his career as a
>mountian man, but it would have been an interesting coincidence if he
was
>being called that at the time this particular scene occured.  Perhaps
when
>Russell got around to writing his Journal, he embellished the story a
>little, using the more dignified title.
>
>
>>No where in the literature of the Rocky Mountain fur trade can I find a
>>historical precident or inference for trappers hanging Indian styled
names
>>on one another.
>
>I'd have to agree.  Seems like the American mountain men were more
likely
>to use their regular names, or titles.  Don't know if it's true, but I
>remember reading somewhere that Joe Meek and Robert Newell decided that
to
>be proper mountain men, they needed "titles", so they picked (out of
thin
>air) Major and Doctor, respectively.
>
>Anybody got any idea why they called Bridger "Gabe?".
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Dean Rudy   AMM#1530     Email: [e-mail]
>Park City, Utah          WWW: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/amm.html
>
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:31:56 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Roy Parker)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Log homes and such

On Sun, 18 Jan 1998 04:17:43 EST, you wrote:

Ted, I am sending this to you via email, as all my attempts to post to
the history list, or even Dean Rudy have been bounced for the last
month.  I'm sending a copy to the blackpowder mailing list also.

The cabin you describe strikes me as a later style.  I could be wrong,
but my mother owns the Henry Bean cabin in Tennessee.  Henry Bean was
the first permanent white settler in east Tennessee back in the
1700's.   About 15 years ago, my Mom and Dad bought the cabin, moved
it to their place and completely restored it.  Dad has since died, but
Mom would be more than glad to show it to you, or discuss the moving
and reconstruction.  The cabin is now located in Cocke County, just
outside of Cosby, some 50 miles east of Knoxville, TN.

Let me know if you are interested in more info.  I'm sure she would be
glad to show you the cabin and the documentation.  Davy Crockett
supposedly once used this cabin for a year as a trading post.  Cabin
is original except for one or two logs too badly damaged.   The
original door is in bad shape, but preserved in one of the
outbuildings along with the original wooden hinges.=20

The other cabin on the place is a modern version of the dog-trot.  Dad
aquired 2 cabins that could have been set up as a dog-trot.  Instead,
he installed a modern kitchen where the dog-trot was, and left the
original cabins as they were, just connected them.  These particular
cabins are made of chestnut logs some 24 inches in thickness.

=46or those on the blackpowder list, this is the area we discussed a
month or two ago for a possible "Echo Rendezvous".  Never heard any
comments pro/con, so never pursued it, although Mom said 50-100 acre
sites are likely available for small groups as long as we stay well
away from her still, whatever that is.





>Hello,
>
>This is the third time I've tried to submit this...perhaps this doesn't
>meet any historical requirements of this e-mail group but I do believe =
it
>does.  I, more than, appreciated all the e-mails about navigation and
>damascus knives!  Now on my next subject.
>
>It's about historically correct log homes.  I'm interested in a
>particular style that's supposedly prevalent in the South.  Dog-trot log
>homes to be extact.  They were two log homes or possibly three connected
>by a roof with spaces in between to create breezeways so that you would
>be able to cool off easier. Had huge wrap-around porches along with the
>breezeways.  I would like sources to where to get info on those and to
>see if there's anybody building those modern dog-trot homes or those who
>get old homes and restore them etc.  Also would like basic info on when
>dog-trot homes were first created etc.  I also am interested in the
>Louisiana swamp homes built with cypress logs...heard that they are =
still
>built.  You can see an excellent example of one in the movie "Old Man
>River".  They also show my breed of dog (Louisiana Leopard Catahoula!)=20
>Does anyone know anything about both styles of houses??  I really would
>like to know.  Also any www pages that are related to those as well.=20
>Thank you for any help that you are able to provide.
>
>Ted
>

Roy Parker, Booshway, 1998 SW Regional Rendezvous, [e-mail]
=46ull SW Rendezvous info available at http://www.sat.net/~robenhaus
Buckskinner, Brewer, Blacksmith and other "B"'s, including "BS".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 06:30:12 -0700 (MST)
From: Dale Byrd <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Winter Trapping

Hi Folks:

Does anyone know when the best times to trap are (for the best hides/pelts)?

Does trapping in the winter months produce good results?

Does anyone know where I can find good information on Trapping?

Any info would be appreciated.

Best wishes,


Dale
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:23:54 -0600
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:  Time and Damascus Steel

At 06:45 PM 1/19/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Re:  Watches
>
>Recently I surfed the net for information about antique pocket watches and
>located quite a bit of information, including pictures of many antique
>watches for sale.
>
>I'm not sure how to tell the difference between a stem-wind watch and a key
>wind watch by looking at pictures of them, but there are sure a number of
>watches dated prior to 1850 that don't appear to have a key hole.

Many of the old key winders required that the back or sometimes the front
be popped open to access the key hole.  Look at the stem and see if it
turns.  Caveat Emptor.

John...
Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:31:01 EST
From: ThisOldFox <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flashguards

In a message dated 98-01-21 11:17:15 EST, you write:

> I'm trying
>  to fit a flashguard to my smoothbore. The lock is a "Tulle" type and has an
>  unbridled frizzen....so the guard just goes under the screw that the
frizzen
>  rotates on......if I tighten it up, it goes up and down with the frizzen.
Is
>  this correct? .. or should it remain in a fixed postion. If I tighten the
>  screw down, the  frizzen will not flip up!    Bumming me out.

Steve,
Mine has a hole drilled slightly under the pan, and the flashguard is bent
slightly into place.  It is permanent this way, and interferes with nothing.
Just drill and tap a hole in the appropriate location and attach it to the
lock.  Mine is brass, which makes the cold forming part a little easier.

OldFox

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:56:14 -0800
From: Dave Parks <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Trapping

In a recent post Dale Byrd asked about traping seasons and what species
were trapped along the Canadian border in the 1850's.........

Hi Dale:

       Nowdays our trapping seasons are set by the State Game
Departments
to open when the furs become prime in the early winter months (in mid-
November here in Oregon) and they close depending on species in the
early spring. There were no seasons earlier and the mainstay of trappers
were the beaver. They were trapped nearly year round. Fall, winter and
spring months were the main trapping seasons.
        Your question about what pelts were taken by trappers along the
Canadian border in the mid 1850's, covers a lot of different areas and
specicies. Trapping as late as the 1850's still centered around the
"Beaver" even in it's waning years. Trappers turned to other abundant
species along the border, such as muskrat, mink, otter, fisher, marten,
lynx, bobcat, mountain lion and bear. As buffalo hides became of value
it took some of the trapping pressure off other fur species for a while,
at least for those trappers who were in the buffalo areas. For a lot of
early trappers like John Johnston (liver eater) that stayed in the
mountains and trapped because thats what he wanted to do and didn't come
out of the mountains until the 1890's to become Sheriff of Red Lodge,
Montana. Others like Joe Meek came to Oregon and settled down becoming
our first law enforcement agent. The trappers turned buffalo hide
hunters remained on the praries until the buffalo were all but gone.

                          Regards, _M_  Manywounds
                                    W

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:29:30 EST
From: ThisOldFox <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Winter Trapping

In a message dated 98-01-21 15:07:09 EST, you write:

> Does anyone know when the best times to trap are (for the best hides/pelts)?

The best time is during the trapping season.  Otherwise you are breaking the
law.

>  Does anyone know where I can find good information on Trapping?

Go to your state wildlife agency, agricultural agency, or Dept. of Natural
Resources.  Depending on your age, you may be required to take a Trapping
course before you can purchase a trapping license.  If not needed, take the
course anyway.  Join the newsgroup alt.animals.furtrapping.  It just started
up in the last couple of months.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:16:43 EST
From: Rkleinx2 <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Nick names/ camp names

Lest we forget 'Black' Harris

    Dick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:13:42 EST
From: J2HEARTS <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1860 Army Colt

Henry,

Most screwdrivers have a /\ point.  Hollow ground is something like  )( groung
on the tip so it won't have a tendency to slip out of the slot in the screw.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:24:35 -0800
From: Dave Parks <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: RE: Winter Trapping

Hi Dale,

For more info on trapping look up trapping in your search engines. There
are lots of information web-pages on trapping. You can also check with
your State Fish & Game Department, they can tell you about seasons,
license requirements and trapping organizations in your area. Good luck.

                          _M_  Manywounds
                           W

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:12:47 EST
From: ThisOldFox <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nick Names/Camp Names

Angella writes:

> Clay, I quite agree with you that the ubiquitous "rendezvous names" seem to
>  be a modern phenomenon. In the W. Canadian fur trade, 1774-1821, almost
>  everyone went by the names their mothers gave them. However, there are a
>  small number of examples of nicknames.

If you read Allan Eckert's series of books, there are extensive reference to
men being known by many names.  Many white men were known by the names that
the Indians had given them; and conversely many Indians had Christian names,
either through adoption or baptism.  While his books are interpretive fiction,
they are based on good references.

I once did a database of all the characters appearing in all his books; in the
text and appendices.  Then, whenever I ran across the same individual in other
readings, I added that to the database.  It listed where they were mentioned,
what tribe they were associated with, when, and all known spellings and
pronunciations of their name.  In some cases, there were 12 or more different
names for each individual.

I spent about 2 years compiling this database, and it is now relegated to the
archives as it was done with a DOS program that will not run under Windows 3.1
or 95, and used a proprietary filetype that cannot be imported into other
programs.

I guess the whole point of this is that men were known by many names in many
different places, and called by the one that was appropriate for where they
happened to be at the time.  "Handles" seemed to be fairly common thoughout
the West in later times; ie, Buffalo Bill, Billy the Kid, Doc Holiday,
Sundance Kid, et al.

How this relates to the Fur Trade era, I don't know, but this type of naming
seemed to be prevalent before and after it occurred.

Dave Kanger
"OldFox"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 17:55:11 PST
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nick Names/Camp Names

Contact Ron & Gayle Harris at [e-mail]
They have a bookstore and generally have many good titles in stock.
Lanney Ratcliff

- ----------
>
> Can someone direct me to a place where I can pick Osbourne Russlls
> book,"Jouranl of a Trapper?" I went to my local bookstore and they had no
clue
> what I was lokking for.
>
> Thanks
> Don Zapfel
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 18:07:25 PST
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nick Names/Camp Names

more re: Russell's journal
ask for isbn no: 0-8032-5166-1
The book is edited by aubrey L. Haines and was published by the University
of Nebraska press.
Lanney Ratcliff

- ----------
>
> Can someone direct me to a place where I can pick Osbourne Russlls
> book,"Jouranl of a Trapper?" I went to my local bookstore and they had no
clue
> what I was lokking for.
>
> Thanks
> Don Zapfel
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 18:15:46 PST
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Winter Trapping

First thing to do is contact your state parks & wildlife dept, or whatever
your state calls it--or ask a local game warden--when it is LEGAL to trap
furs and what licenses are required.
Big Zwey

- ----------
> Hi Folks:
>
> Does anyone know when the best times to trap are (for the best
hides/pelts)?
>
> Does trapping in the winter months produce good results?
>
> Does anyone know where I can find good information on Trapping?
>
> Any info would be appreciated.
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
> Dale
> [e-mail]
>
>

------------------------------

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