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hist_text-digest      Wednesday, January 21 1998      Volume 01 : Number 006




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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:01:55 +0000
From: "Mike Katona" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:  shovel

Need a good drawing of a period (1800-1850) shovel to take over to my
blacksmith. Would appreciate it if someone has one that they could
ship me. thanks
Two Squaws Hiveranno
AMM # 914

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:35:33 -0500
From: "Kat" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nick Names/Camp Names

Many of the folk I hang around with are given their camp names for something
they did, Sodbuster, (really tore up the ground when he got stuck) Rat Poker
(4 footed kind between the liner and tipi), Slick (count your fingers when
you're done trading -- won't cheat but always makes a good deal),
Leadbottom, and so on

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:43:28 -0600
From: "Michael Branson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1860 Army Colt

Well I'm sure alot of folks will have their own ideas but I usually use
boiling water with dishwashing liquid in it and soak it until the water
cools off. The screw driver should fit the slotjust as others have said
also if the screw driver is hollow ground it helps also. M. branson
- ----------
> From: Henry B. Crawford <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1860 Army Colt
> Date: Saturday, January 17, 1998 10:37 AM
>
> >Howdy Henry There are lots of unsaid things that could help decide how
to
> >care for that revolver. Like... is the mainspring still attached? Have
you
> >revmoved the wooden grips? Usually the gripps should come off and then
the
> >mainspring should come next.
>
> I stripped it down as far as it could go.  I planned to completely
> disassemble the piece and clean each part before I replaced the
> hand-and-spring.  That's when I got stuck at the trigger guard.
>
> Is the gun dirty or clean? If dirty, I would
> >soak the revolver in very hot water for quite awhile before I tried to
> >reomve those screws.
>
> boiled water?  How long?
>
> HBC
>
> *****************************************
> Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
> [e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
> 806/742-2442           Box 43191
> FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
>                WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
> ********    "Eat with gusto and enthusiasm"    ********

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:53:15 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Angela Gottfred)
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Celestial Navigation

I'm going to turn the reply to this one over to my husband. Jeff responds:

"Pat Quilter" <[e-mail]> wrote:

> one's latitude (north or south position on the
>earth) is relatively easy to obtain, by measuring the angle of the north
star to
>the horizon.

Curiously enough, using the pole star to find latitude was not done 200
years ago due to the necessity of knowing the exact time. This is because
the pole star is not right at the celestial pole, but about 1/2 a degree
away. Failure to compensate for this would result in an error of position of
up to 30 nautical miles. The problem was, unlike today, knowing the exact
time was difficult (see below).

> Since the sun travels a predicable path in the sky (even though the
>apparent height varies with season) with the use of tables and a "noon
sighting"
>(measuring the sun several times around estimated noon and determining its
>highest position) you could establish your latitude, using a sextant (an
instrument
>to measure the angle between an object and the horizon).

Acually, the observer simply adjusts the sextant one way until the sun
appears to ascend no higher. At this point the observer knows that transit
has occured and should be able to compute a latitude to an accuracy of about
1.5 nautical miles even 200 years ago. (As David Thompson did).
Note that Latitude can also be obtained with a "common" (ie. accurate to
within 10 seconds or so per hour) watch using a technique called the "double
altitude" method. This was used by Thompson (and others) when solar transits
were not convenient. For a full explanation of the method see my articles in
Northwest Journal Volume IX. (For more information on Northwest Journal see
www.telusplanet.net/public/gottfred/nwj.html, or write me)

>Actual practices
>involved more tricks (such as the artificial horizon noted) to compensate for
>inability to see the true "flat" horizon.

An artifical horizon (called "Parallel Glasses" 200 years ago) was essential
for accurate results. (Dip short technniques using lake and river horizons
were used but the error in estimating the distance to the far shore yielded
poor results). Note that on land the navigator does not have to contend with
many of the problems that plague the ocean navigator. This allows consistent
and accurate results that would be impossible or very difficult at sea. I
don't know what other 'tricks' you are referring to.

> Determining your longitude (how far
>east or west we are) would be simple IF we knew what time it was at a
standard reference
>longitude (normally taken to be the Royal Observatory at Greenwich,
England). We
>need only measure the difference in time between high noon at Greenwich and our
>local noon (using the same repeated noon sightings taken above) to
determine how
>many time zones around the earth we are.

Local apparent noon can not be determined to the necessary accuaracy by
observing the time of tranist. The technique used was to compute one's
latitude using either a transit or a double altitude followed by a 'time
shot' in which the height of sun above the horizon is measured, and a
spherical triangle solved to determine the local hour angle at the instant
of the observation. This arc can be converted to time at the rate of fifteen
degrees per hour, and the result is the sun's apparent time ante or post
meridian. (As an interesting historical note, converting local apparent
solar time to local mean time (using the equation of time) was not required
as the lunar distance tables of the day used local apparent time.)

>Of course, before radio time signals,
>there were very limited ways to determine the time at Greenwich while
>travelling. The ultimate method, of course, required accurate chronometers; a
>good 1815 British Navy captain sailed with three of them and kept accurate
>records of their relative drift, and noted their offset upon returning to
>Greenwich. Lewis and Clark did not succeed in keeping a chronometer going
continuously
>while travelling, but, "Undaunted Courage" describes Lewis's process of taking
>"lunars" to determine the true time.

Quite so. L & C had "pocket chronometers" made by Arnold, presuambly using a
detent escapement, but even so the accuracy over weeks would not be
sufficient for computing longitude directly. David Thompson only posessed
"common" watches - highly inaccurate things useless for computing longitude
directly.

>The moon is constantly eclipsing various
>stars, which events are regular and can be put in tables. When the moon passes
>in front of star x, the Greenwich time is exactly ___. If you set even an
>average-quality watch to this time, it will still be close enough for a noon
>sighting the next day. The positions of Jupiter's four moons was another
>celestial clock. All of these events, of course, occur at inconvenient
>intervals, and cloud cover was the bane of surveyors.

It was not necessary to wait for the moon to eclipse a star (hardly ever
happens for stars listed in the Nautical Almanac of the day). The observer
simply chose a navigational star close to the ecliptic, and measured the
distance from the limb of the moon to the star. He then "cleared the
distance" of the effects of refraction using one of several techniques, and
compared the result to the published distances as listed in the Nautical
Almanac. David Thompson usually used the sun as the second object (as do I).
Any given lunar distance will only yield a result accurate to about 20'
(minutes) of longitude. So to get a position narrowed down to tolerable
limits (say, within 5' longitude) one must make a dozen observations and
average the results. For a complete explaination of these techniques see the
cited Northwest Journal articles.
By the time the 1800's rolled around, Jupiter's moons were no longer used
for finding Greenwich time as the lunar distance method was far more
convienient and yielded far more accurate results.

>Using these methods, I believe
>most of Lewis and Clark's positions were within 30 miles of their true
position,
>but as noted, this could be a deadly degree of error for a sailing ship.

I stood at the Giant Springs of the Missouri River near Great Falls and
measured their latitude as did Lewis. I was stunned to find that Lewis'
latitude observation was in error by some 17 nautical miles. Even by the
standards of his time this was a lousy observation. (David Thompson would
have gotten it to within 1.5 Nautical Miles, I got it to under a kilometer)
Perhaps Meriwether was having an especially bad day....

Pat, read my articles and give these techniques a try! I assume from your
comments that you are an ocean navigator. Being land-locked, I developed an
interest in studying how David Thompson was able to build such accurate
maps. I have completely re-constructed his techniques, and, using my Astra
IIIb sextant can nearly obtain the accuracy that he did with his Dollond.
Doing this stuff will open up a whole new vista of fun (and humbling!)
things you can do with your sextant. I would be happy to answer any
questions you might have regarding the special problems of land navigation.
Also- I have tables for f factors for altitudes above sea level &c. that you
might be interested in...

Regards,
Jeff.
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 04:17:43 EST
From: [e-mail] (Ted A Hart)
Subject: MtMan-List: Log homes and such

Hello,

This is the third time I've tried to submit this...perhaps this doesn't
meet any historical requirements of this e-mail group but I do believe it
does.  I, more than, appreciated all the e-mails about navigation and
damascus knives!  Now on my next subject.

It's about historically correct log homes.  I'm interested in a
particular style that's supposedly prevalent in the South.  Dog-trot log
homes to be extact.  They were two log homes or possibly three connected
by a roof with spaces in between to create breezeways so that you would
be able to cool off easier. Had huge wrap-around porches along with the
breezeways.  I would like sources to where to get info on those and to
see if there's anybody building those modern dog-trot homes or those who
get old homes and restore them etc.  Also would like basic info on when
dog-trot homes were first created etc.  I also am interested in the
Louisiana swamp homes built with cypress logs...heard that they are still
built.  You can see an excellent example of one in the movie "Old Man
River".  They also show my breed of dog (Louisiana Leopard Catahoula!)
Does anyone know anything about both styles of houses??  I really would
like to know.  Also any www pages that are related to those as well.
Thank you for any help that you are able to provide.

Ted

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 04:20:43 EST
From: LODGEPOLE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nick Names/Camp Names

In a message dated 98-01-18 01:33:56 EST, you write:

<< Many of the folk I hang around with are given their camp names for
something
 they did, Sodbuster, (really tore up the ground when he got stuck) Rat Poker
 (4 footed kind between the liner and tipi), Slick (count your fingers when
 you're done trading -- won't cheat but always makes a good deal),
 Leadbottom, and so on >>

   Pretty much the way it works around here....one of my favorites is a gal
called Lead Bottom, at a local vous a shot was made on the range, the ball hit
the steel target square, bounced back and traveled about 300 yards and hot her
in the arse as she was bending over to pick something up.
   Many Hats, this one is self explanitory.
   Longshot, (that's me) 120 yard 12" target three for three, three shoots in
a row, on the last shot my partner turns and says "God Damn Longshot"
   Woodcutter, this boy has an obsession for going out to the woods and
cutting wood, if his wood shed and all the excess wood outside the shed ever
catches fire...St. Louis is history.
   Snapper, sometimes short tempered and had a bad weekend at a vous with his
boy who was being as onery as possible, Snapper was "Snappin'" at the boy
quite a bit that weekend.
   Animal, well, you should see him when he get's drunk.
   Spider, had the darnedest, biggest, ugliest spider you ever saw climbing up
his leg one day at vous, set him to jumpin' and hollerin'.
   Long Toes, could cut one off and use it fer a fishing pole.
   Long Poles, (get's the girls interest up) had a 14 foot lodge with poles
for a 24 footer, sorta looked like it would fall over.  Later, also known as
Tim Buck Too, because of a joke he was always tellin.  His wife, Looks too
Cold, wears a sweat shirt under her blouse, under her capote when it hits 50
degrees.


                                         Longshot

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:30:34 EST
From: J2HEARTS <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1860 Army Colt

Henry,

I've also had luck heating an old screwdricer which fits the slot to red hot
and slipping it into the screw.  As it cools in the slot, apply pressure to
the screw and see if it loosens.

John Funk

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:37:22 -0600
From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:  shovel

Wahtahay-
        Send me a snail mail address.
LongWalker c. du B.
At 04:01 PM 1/17/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Need a good drawing of a period (1800-1850) shovel to take over to my
>blacksmith. Would appreciate it if someone has one that they could
>ship me. thanks
>Two Squaws Hiveranno
>AMM # 914
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:59:09 -0700
From: Dean Rudy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nick Names/Camp Names

At 03:04 PM 1/17/98 -0700, Clay wrote:

>Osborne Russell describes the nick names of several mountaineers in a
>passage from his book-"Journal of a Trapper", page 39. He tells of the camp
>keeper "art" of cooking "poor bull" by beating it with a club and says "He
>then drops his club and draws his butcher knife calling to his comrades
>"Come Major, Judge, Squire, Dollar, Pike, Cotton, and Gabe wont you take
>lunch of Simon?" The editor of Russell's book, Aubrey Haines, tells us in a
>foot note that by these nicknames Russell is refering to Joe Meek as
>"Major", George Ebberts as "Squire", Cotton Mansfield as "Cotton", and James
>Bridger as "Gabe". Haines also thinks that "Judge" may have been Russell's
>nick name.

I've always wondered about that, and what evidence Haines had.  Russell did
indeed become a judge when he settled in Oregon after his career as a
mountian man, but it would have been an interesting coincidence if he was
being called that at the time this particular scene occured.  Perhaps when
Russell got around to writing his Journal, he embellished the story a
little, using the more dignified title.


>No where in the literature of the Rocky Mountain fur trade can I find a
>historical precident or inference for trappers hanging Indian styled names
>on one another.

I'd have to agree.  Seems like the American mountain men were more likely
to use their regular names, or titles.  Don't know if it's true, but I
remember reading somewhere that Joe Meek and Robert Newell decided that to
be proper mountain men, they needed "titles", so they picked (out of thin
air) Major and Doctor, respectively.

Anybody got any idea why they called Bridger "Gabe?".


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dean Rudy   AMM#1530     Email: [e-mail]
Park City, Utah          WWW: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/amm.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:33:18 +0000
From: David Mullen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nick Names/Camp Names

Dean Rudy wrote:
>
> Anybody got any idea why they called Bridger "Gabe?".

In _ "The Last Button on Gabe's Coat": Jim Bridger in the Southwest,
1834-1848_ (Wehrkamp, Tim. New Mexico Historical Quarterly, LXVI, April,
1991)- Mr. Wehrkamp makes the following statements:

" It is easy to picture Bridger in 1837: tall and laconic; a wiry
brigade leader of proven worth; a man respected as "Casapy," or "Blanket
Chief" among the Crows. One scholar, Cecil Alter, believes that, around
1829, the biblically inspired Jedediah Smith christened Jim "Old Gabe."
Smith's nickname for Bridger may have been an acknowledgment of the
leadership qualities that, as trusted lieutenant, he shared in common
with the angel Gabriel, that other notable second in command. Logical as
this explanation seems, Alter's contention is nonetheless uncertain.
(10)"

Footnote: "10. Verification is difficult. According to Alter, Meek's
"dictated recollections" imply that Jim became "Old Gabe" around 1829.
Jedediah Smith's account, as Meek allegedly recalled it, does not appear
in Mrs. Victor's _River of the West_. Alter, _Jim Bridger_, 110.

I realize that Wehrkamp rebuts Cecil Alter's contention, but it is one
possible origin of Bridgers nickname.  Hope this is of some help.

David
- --
David Mullen
email:[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:48:13 -0500
From: Terry Behm <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Nick Names/Camp Names

Clay Landry Wrote

>>No where in the literature of the Rocky Mountain fur trade can I find a=

historical precident or inference for trappers hanging Indian styled name=
s
on one another.... Maybe this "naming process" does have an historical
basis-does anyone know???<<

Clay, I too have never come across anywhere that the trappers refer to ea=
ch
other by indian names, I'm sure it developed in recent times, tho I can't=

understand why.  The local Rondezvous Club here always ask for your
"Medicine Name" when you renew membership.  I ignore it because what folk=
s
call me has nothing to do with indians or medicine.


Padre Rolf   (Terry Behm)

On second thought, maybe my name DOES have something to do with medicine.=
 =

It came about because of a hat and blanket coat I had quite a few years a=
go
and a particular mountain camp involving a broken tooth and most all the
"medicine" in camp.  You know, the tooth was the only part of me that
didn't hurt the next morning !  :~)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:48:14 -0500
From: Terry Behm <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:  shovel

Two Squaws asked
>Need a good drawing of a period (1800-1850) shovel to take over to my
>blacksmith.


Mike
the Sept/Oct Muzzleloader had a note in Prime Possibles about a small
shovel that Arrowhead Forge was making, it was copied from "Collector's
Illustrated Encyclopedia of the American Revolution" by Neumann and Kravi=
c.
 Looks pretty good,  they want 20 bucks plus 5 for postage.  phone number=

is  605-938-4814.


Terry Behm  - Padre Rolf

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:53:47 -0800
From: Frank Stewart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nick Names/Camp Names

Terry Behm wrote:

> Clay, I too have never come across anywhere that the trappers refer to each
> other by indian names, I'm sure it developed in recent times, tho I can't
> understand why.  The local Rondezvous Club here always ask for your
> "Medicine Name" when you renew membership.  I ignore it because what folks
> call me has nothing to do with indians or medicine.

Terry,

My 2 cents on the topic that may well be worth only 3/4 cent due to inflation!

I think that the "Medicine Name" is more than likely derived from the movies
than history.
To me, it really is a fun way to bond to fellow enthusiast.  Often you get an
insight into the person you're meeting for the first time and share a laugh
over our common frailties!
For those who are seeking a pure reenactment, it would probably be best to not
use an Indian name or for that matter even talk about anything except the
topics of the day!  Limiting all conversation to only those topics that a
mountain man of the period being emulated would have been aware of or
discussing.
We're an odd mix with varying levels of interest.  The "Mountain Name"  for me
really helps to bridge the levels of interest and are a lot of fun.

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #6
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