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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #4 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Thursday, January 15 1998 Volume 01 : Number 004 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:26:13 EST From: tedhart@juno.com (Ted A Hart) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A gift for the list. I'm curious how can you tell time at night? Or for that matter day? I'm still trying to figure out so that I can amaze my friends with the pronouncation of the time at times without a watch :) Also what's a damacus steel? Many thanks. Ted ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:54:18 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gone to the ALAFIA RONNYVOUS!!! On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Addison O. Miller wrote: > PS We are having a Celtic Wedding on the 21st of Jan. If ya be there, ya > be invited ;) Luck to ye lad, I suspect it'll be a shining time! Shoot straight, and if the bride be Celtic, search her fer blades before the ceremony :) Lee Newbill Viola, Idaho email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder" Website http://www.uidaho.edu/~lnewbill/bp.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:55:54 -0500 From: "Donald A. Ricetti" <SEGUNDO@bigfoot.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Time and Damascus Steel For time during the day try a sundial compass. Night time there are only the following times, O dark thirty, dinner time, party time & bed time. Damascus steel is a layered steel that is mostly used today for VERY expensive, fancy knives and hawks. By the way my wife got me one for being a really good little 'ol skinner this year. In the past it was used for some shotgun barrels but was banned due to it's habit of seperating with smokeless powder. I have seen several old pieces and you can tell from the mottled look of the barrel that it is probably Damacus. Ted A Hart wrote: > I'm curious how can you tell time at night? Or for that matter day? I'm > still trying to figure out so that I can amaze my friends with the > pronouncation of the time at times without a watch :) Also what's a > damacus steel? Many thanks. > > Ted ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:21:39 -0700 (MST) From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Time and Damascus Steel Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:55:46 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BD2076.625E0300" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD2076.625E0300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There was watches in the mountains and were not uncommon. What I want to know how did they keep them dry. They had key wound watches don't know when stem watches came into being. I carry a stemwound watch myself unless someone is standing right on top of me they can't tell the difference. I have been asked if it was a key wound watch. I come back the key is to keep it wound. Now for Damascus steel, it was Forge welded and lapped welded. You can see it in old shot guns . Until Later Jon T - ---------- : From: Ted A Hart <tedhart@juno.com> : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A gift for the list. : Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 4:26 PM : : I'm curious how can you tell time at night? Or for that matter day? I'm : still trying to figure out so that I can amaze my friends with the : pronouncation of the time at times without a watch :) Also what's a : damacus steel? Many thanks. : : Ted - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD2076.625E0300 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">There was watches in the mountains and = were not uncommon. What I want to know how did they keep them dry. = They had key wound watches don't know when stem watches came into = being. I carry a stemwound watch myself unless someone is standing = right on top of me they can't tell the difference. I have been = asked if it was a key wound watch. I come back the key is to keep = it wound. Now for Damascus steel, it was Forge welded and lapped = welded. You can see it in old shot guns . Until Later Jon T = ---------- : From: Ted A Hart <tedhart@juno.com> : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A gift for the = list. : Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 4:26 PM : : I'm = curious how can you tell time at night? Or for that matter day? = I'm : still trying to figure out so that I can amaze my friends = with the : pronouncation of the time at times without a watch :) = Also what's a : damacus steel? Many thanks. : : = Ted </body></html> - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD2076.625E0300-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 01:48:53 -0600 From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Time and Damascus Steel In-Reply-To: <19980113.182427.8191.1.TedHart@juno.com> References: <3.0.3.32.19971228191720.0392f3bc@mail.kramerize.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:26 PM 1/13/98 EST, Ted wrote: >I'm curious how can you tell time at night? Or for that matter day? I'm >still trying to figure out so that I can amaze my friends with the >pronouncation of the time at times without a watch :) I wrote an article for the T&LR back in '80 or '81 describing in detail how to do it. Basically observe the path of the Big Dipper as it describes an arc around the North Star over many nights. Develop "witness" marks for yourself on the horizon (note: the arc covers a different area of the sky during different seasons). I could hit about 15 minute accuracy against the occasional city watch encountered, when I lived out all the time. You can do the about the same with the sun, or buy one of those nice repro sundial compasses and learn to use it. Don't forget to adjust to Government time from Railroad time (& vice versa) in the appropriate seasons. Don't forget magnetic declination. It was a year or two after I wrote "How to Light a Candle" if you really want to amaze and amuse your friends. Don't do it right and you could set your beard on fire. You can always make damp tinder burn, if you can light a candle. Wet wood just takes longer to get a good fire burning. Also what's a >damacus steel? Many thanks. > Damascus steel was considered by many to be the finest for swords ever made. Surpassing Toledo, Soling en, and Sheffield. It was a secret process combining iron with the harder steel in patterns, I've read claims of tempering in human blood, no one really knows. There are many making what I call damascus type steel as the original could only be made in Damascus. Look around a little at a knife shows, or old shotguns. The knife makers will mostly claim they make Damascus. John... If it ain't exactly right, it's wrong. john <kramer@kramerize.com> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 01:20:43 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Time and Damascus Steel Greetings Ted... > I'm curious how can you tell time at night? Or for that matter day? To be exactly precise, you'd need a sexton, your exact location, and what day of the year it is (was), then all you'd have to do is shoot the angle of the sun (or stars) compare it to your charts, and bingo, you'd know what time it was (or something like that :) The folks I know that can tell the time (approximately), know what time the sun comes up and sets, know where north is, and approximate the time by lining up the position of the sun (or their favorite constellation) to due north (then it's simple division after that). Most of these folks live their lives outside by the way (versus an office). Me... I'm looking for a key wind watch, but I always know when it's lunch time! > Also what's a damacus steel? Damascus steel is a name currently used to describe steel that has been laminated by forge welding two or more types of ferrous metal. It is more accurately referred to as pattern welded damascus to differentiate it from true oriental damascus steel which is made using an entirely different process. See the page at: http://www.nidlink.com/~packriver/dam_stl.html Regards Lee Newbill Viola, Idaho email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder" Website http://www.uidaho.edu/~lnewbill/bp.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:40:38 -0500 From: "Kat" <kat@janrix.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Time We always had a really simple way to tell what time it was: A bit after getting up is breakfast Hungry again is lunch Sleepy is nap time Hungry again is dinner (or when cook rattles dishes loudly) Dark (or lack of flatlanders) is party time Any time after that is bed time Noticed you're by youself? Must be time to pack and leave :) Most places with cannon set them off at Noon and 5 :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:56:25 -0600 From: Glenn Darilek <llsi@texas.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Time Ted Hart wrote: > > I'm curious how can you tell time at night? One way I have improvised for judging time on nights with a clear sky is to look at the two stars that form the outer edge of the cup of the Big Dipper (Ursa Major). These stars form a line to the North Star (Polaris) and will be your clock's hour hand. Look at it the first thing at night and figure it points to maybe 7 o'clock (or whatever time you think it is at the time). Then figure that the hand will turn 360 degrees every 24 hours. Actually the earth does the turning. So each hour is 15 degrees. So at night, judge the angle the pointing stars have changed and add 1 hour to your original time for each 15 degrees. This is as accurate as you can estimate the angle, which is not usually accurate, but good enough to judge whether to postpone a latrine run until daylight. You can also use the angle of any other easily recognizable star with Polaris. If you can find Orion, it is good because it travels overhead where we live (Texas). On nights with a moon, the moon can also be used. The moon is not as accurate as the stars because it orbits a little slower than every 24 hours, but it is plenty accurate for estimating. On full moon nights, it is easy because the moon rises and sets at dusk and dawn. The above is the exact total of my astronomical knowledge, so I hope someone will expand on this subject and correct me if my intuition is incorrect. Happy stargazing, friend. Iron Burner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:00:28 -0700 From: "L. A. Romsa" <LROMSA1@missc.state.wy.us> Subject: MtMan-List: Cabela's BP & Cleaning solution I got my 1858 Pietta (sp?) from Cabela's bargan area ($112.00). It is = advertized as an exact replica. I've had excellent service from this = revolver and a whole lot of fun. I use Pyrodex because it is readily = available and less expensive than blackpowder in this area. I've never had = any of the problems mentioned. I often leave it loaded for months at a = time and never a misfire or late ignition. I always clean it after = shooting. Even if I only need one shot, I still shoot it empty and clean = it when I get home. I use hot-hot-hot water and Dawn dish liquid. So far no sign of any fouling or rust. I load about 26 pyrodex-p, corn meal filler, a wonder-wad, .451 round = ball ( from my lee mould) , and then spit-ball or crisco. I know this = sounds like over-kill, but it works best for me this way. Spit-ball is = better in the warmer months, but crisco does great as long as it doesn't = melt. I hope this helps a little. BrokenJaw P.S. After cleaning I always put a thin layer of spit-ball or crisco in = the barrel and on the pin. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jan 1998 11:01:29 -0700 From: "Pat Quilter" <pat_quilter@qscaudio.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Telling Time Telling Time At the risk of expanding other other entries on this topic, here are the very elementary notions this "city boy" uses to estimate time of day or night. DAY TIME: You need to know approximately when the sun rises and sets. Then you note its progress across the sky and subdivide between these two times. One can use a pole or sapling as a natural sundial, marking certain times with little stakes or rocks by asking someone with a watch, noon being fairly easy to establish by eye. However, in general, "day" times are pretty self-regulating according to one's state of hunger, the activities under way, distance to be travelled etc etc. It's usually the time of night that one needs for assigning watch duty, or simply wondering how many hours till dawn. NIGHT TIME. Again, we start with knowledge of sunset and sunrise times. As the stars become visible, find the North Star and mark the position of the Big Dipper (if visible) or another distinctive consellation. All stars appear to rotate around the North Star so we have a natural "clock face" which rotates once every 24 hours. A nominal 12-hour night (actually of course the length varies with the season) will therefore involve a 180-degree rotation of the marker stars. As noted, alignment marks on the horizon can help assess the amount of rotation. The other valuable body is the moon, which may be visible through clouds which obscure the stars. Here we need to consider the phase of the moon -- A full moon is on the opposite side of the earth from the sun, and therefore travels the night sky 12 hours later than the sun. A half-moon, being at a 90-degree angle, should rise (or set) exactly halfway through the night. This event may be apparent even through moderate cloud cover. Intermediate phases (3/4, 1/4 etc) will rise or set 3/4 or 1/4 of the way through the night. One needs of course to observe whether the moon is already up when the sun sets, or will be rising at the appropriate time, and of course the moon's angle while visible subdivides the time between dark and moonrise/set. The moon rises/set about 50 minutes later each day. I could rack my brain to relate this to waxing or waning moons but a glance at the night sky establishes where we stand in the current cycle. Establishing the time during a deeply cloudy and rainy night is trickier. For me, such nights divide into about six time zones -- Surpisingly Dry and Cosy, Early Sleep, the Time of Drips, Suspicious Trickles and Gurglings, Resigned Waiting, and the Rising Pressure Before Dawn. Pat Quilter, AMM 1658 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:08:08 -0800 From: Frank Stewart <frank@hawken54.sparks.nv.us> Subject: MtMan-List: Gunsmithing Hello the camp! I need a little help with some gunsmithing. I just picked up a new rifle and it has a couple small problems. First is, the front sight is so loose I can push it out with my fingers and I don't know how to tighten it. The second is that if I fully cock the hammer, the set trigger is almost impossible to engage. With the hammer at rest the set trigger works fine. The gun has an L&R lock. Sure 'preciate yor hep! Frank "Medicine Bear" Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:52:37 -0500 From: Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gone to the ALAFIA RONNYVOUS!!! Will also be leaving for the Alafia.......Hope the new sight is big enough for all these ya-hoos....... Going in first weekend and looking for the 3 big trees. Linda Holley ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:40:59 -0600 From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Time and Damascus Steel At 08:21 AM 1/14/98 -0700, Jon wrote: > >There was watches in the mountains and were not uncommon. What I want to >know how did they keep them dry. They had key wound watches don't know >when stem watches came into being. > Stem wound watches are after 1850. Watches were very expensive. It would be difficult to keep one dry and functional in the mountains, for long. I've had a couple of nice old ones (key wind) in perfect condition. Never could keep one running two weeks in the mountains. A watch would have been uncommon except perhaps for Stewart, Fremont, Bonneville and the like. It ain't like they had parking meters to feed and meetings to attend or a Day Planner to keep track of. Not a very useful tool in the mountains. An expensive luxury of greatest value to surveyors, cartographers and such. John... Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer kramer@kramerize.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:27:04 EST From: JFLEMYTH <JFLEMYTH@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabela's BP & Cleaning solution One cleaning solution a friend told me about is simply to mix equal parts of: Murphey's oil soap rubbing alchohol Hydrogen Peroxide Boy, I wish I had a spell check on E-mail... Anyway, this is a great little solvent for black powder. However, with the rubbing alchohol, you have to be sure to get it off completely. Leaving this stuff on will breed rust. That's great that your pistol is keeping clean now, but if you ever need to scrub it hard, then I would suggest giving this a try. It's all I use these days... And it's cheap too! Keep your powder dry. John Fleming ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 07:47:34 PST From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <rat@htcomp.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A gift for the list. Be careful if you acquire an old gun with a damascus barrell. Rust can occur between layers in the steel, resulting in a dangerously weakened barrell. The steel can appear to be perfectly sound but the barrell can split or burst if the rust has weakened it enough. Have a COMPETENT gunsmith examine the gun thoroughly before you even consider firing a damascus barrelled gun. Otherwise, you should clean it up nicely and hang it over the fireplace. Lanney Ratcliff rat@htcomp.net - ---------- > > I'm curious how can you tell time at night? Or for that matter day? I'm > still trying to figure out so that I can amaze my friends with the > pronouncation of the time at times without a watch :) Also what's a > damacus steel? Many thanks. > > Ted > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 02:37:26 EST From: Nauga Mok <NaugaMok@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gunsmithing In a message dated 98-01-14 15:20:27 EST, you write: << First is, the front sight is so loose I can push it out with my fingers and I don't know how to tighten it. I asume the front sight is set in a dovetail groove? If so, you can sometimes shim under the sight with a piece of .002 steel shim stock & snug things up. Another method id to use a small center punch & lightly pein the bottom of the dovetail groove. IF you have access to a TIG welder, build up the width of the base of the sight & file to fit properly. A nonperiod fix is superglue, but only after you have the sight where it belongs. < The second is that if I fully cock the hammer, the set trigger is almost impossible to engage. With the hammer at rest the set trigger works fine. The gun has an L&R lock. >> Have you removed the lock & checked the function of the trigger? Possibly the end of the sear has gotten in between the levers of the set trigger's mechanism? Set the triggers before reinstalling the lock & see what happens. NM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 02:02:44 EST From: Nauga Mok <NaugaMok@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A gift answers In a message dated 98-01-14 00:49:08 EST, you write: << I'm curious how can you tell time at night? Position of the "Big Dipper" around the North Star. < Or for that matter day? With practice, you can easily get within 30 min by eyeballing the Sun's position. There are other methods using shadows that can be surprisingly accurate. Check out an old Boy Scout hand book. You can also use shadows to tell direction. There are aslo several period sundials available. Some of which are very accurate once you learn how to use 'em. < Also what's a damacus steel? >> True Damascus steel is no longer available. What we have today is more properly termed as "pattern welded steel". Way back when steel was something new, it was made from "bog iron" that was smelted in crude clay furnaces fired with charcoal or wood which became charcoal as the process progressed. This bog iron had a lot of imourities that could be removed by hammering. When you hammer a piece of iron, it gets thinner, so to retain the thickness, it was folded, the fold welded shut (again by hammering at high heat), the resulting piece was again hammered thin, folded, wedled, & hammered thin again until the impurities were all removed. This resulted in the first steels & the method was practiced in the area of the old city Damascus -- hence the name. Due to the many layers that were welded together, it had a pattern as the layers could be seen. Usualy there were several hundred layers -- if memory serves, in the neighbourhood of around 500 to 1000. The main reason I say true Damascus is no longer available is the ore used back then is depleted, & other iron ores do not have the same properties. Modern renditions of "Damascus steel" starts with 2 (or more) modern steels of different carbon content such as 1010 & 1095. The carbon content is what makes steel get hard in the hardening & tempering process. In numbered steels "10XX", the 10 means it's pure refined iron with no alloying additives. Steel is, for all practical purposes, iron with the impurities removed. The "XX" numbers in the 1000 series steels indicates carbon content. Basicaly steel with less than 4% carbon (1040) is considered unhardenable though with proper treatment & handling 1040 CAN be hardend to a certain extent. Back to our 1010 & 1095 steels -- these two bars of steel are forge welded together with the traditional method of high heat & hammering. From this point the method developed way back at the birth of steel is repeted -- hammer, fold, weld, hammer, fold, weld. When the desired (note the word "desired") number of layers are reached, the resulting billet can be formed into a knife, ax, or whatever tool desired -- usualy knives are made of this labor intensive product. This method has several advantages over making a knife out of a bar of 1095 steel. Due to the low carbon layers within the billet, it is extremely tough & resistant to breakage because it supports the hard high carbon layers, Some claim the resulting edge acts as a saw when cutting. The most odvious reason for making a knive this way is becaust it's a beautiful piece of work when the layers are manipulated to form patterns, then acid etched. Some blade smiths use nickel instead of the low carbon steel or add a thin layer of nickel every 25 folds to accentuate the pattern. There are several blacksmiths & bladesmiths making "damascus" or "pattern welded" steels. There's a knife catalog that comes out of Georgia (I think -- Atlanta Cutlery???) that sometimes has blanks & billets for sale at a fairly reasonable price. Hope this helps. NM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:32:09 -0600 (CST) From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gone to the ALAFIA RONNYVOUS!!! >Will also be leaving for the Alafia.......Hope the new sight is big enough for >all these ya-hoos....... >Going in first weekend and looking for the 3 big trees. > >Linda Holley I guess I missed it, but where's Alafia? HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ********** "Living History Rules!!" ********** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:10:18 -0500 From: "Kat" <kat@janrix.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Unsubscribe commands I need to unsub for a while, and I lost the instructions when my hard drive crashed. Could someone e-mail me the commands, or point me to the FAQ? Thought I had it on paper . . . . . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:39:29 -0700 (MST) From: Dean Rudy <drudy@xmission.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Unsubscribe commands > > I need to unsub for a while, and I lost the instructions when my hard drive > crashed. Could someone e-mail me the commands, or point me to the FAQ? > Thought I had it on paper . . . . . > > The Mailing list web page has the procedures for un/subscribing. http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - -Dean ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:56:50 -0700 From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Telling Time Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu> wrote: >To be exactly precise, you'd need a sexton, I think you meant sextant? I wouldn't want to drag a sexton around after me! My husband is an expert in this field--he says telling time down to the=20 precise minute and second with a sextant is a simple task, "you only have to= =20 solve _one_ spherical triangle", and "anyone with a basic grounding in=20 celestial navigation shouldn't have any problems with it". To do it in=20 period fashion requires a sextant, artificial horizon (pan of water with a= =20 glass cover to protect it from the wind), a nautical almanac for the current= =20 year, and mathematical tables. This method, called a "time shot", is how=20 David Thompson and other early navigators set their watches when they=20 accidentally let them run down. No, I'm not going to give the details=20 here--see vol. IX of Northwest Journal for the entire recipe. It's easier to use a traveller's sundial such as the Universal Ring Dial=20 (aka Astronomical Ring) available from Townsend & Sons a few years back, or= =20 the variations available in so many gift shops & catalogs now (shepard's=20 watch, Eleanor of Aquitaine watch, etc.). Sundials tell sundial time=20 (apparent solar time). The watch on your wrist tells mean zone time (eg.=20 MST, PDT). The difference between sundial time and mean zone time can be an= =20 hour or more, depending on where you are and what time of year it is. (Time= =20 zones were invented in the late 19th century by Canadian Sir Sandford=20 Fleming. Before then, watches were set to mean local solar time, so that=20 travellers with accurate watches would need to reset them continually as=20 they travelled, since solar noon comes at different times depending on where= =20 you are. ) You can figure out a conversion from sundial time to watch time which will= =20 be accurate to within 15 minutes. First, you must know your latitude (look= =20 it up on a map) & use that to set the gnomon (centre post) on the sundial.= =20 Then, to quote Jeff : "The first [correction] is an equation of time=20 correction which can reach as much as fifteen minutes in February and=20 November! Secondly, you will have to apply a correction to find your local= =20 zone time. In each time zone everyone's watch says noon at the same instant,= =20 even though it takes the sun one hour to cross the zone. Combined with the= =20 equation of time correction, this means that the astronomical ring can show= =20 a time which differs from your watch by up to forty-five minutes (fast or=20 slow). To find out what correction to apply for your zone, simply divide=20 your longitude by 15 to find how many hours it takes the sun to get to your= =20 meridian (reach high noon) from the meridian at Greenwich. For example, in= =20 Calgary at longitude 114=BA West, the sun will reach high noon 7 hours and= 36=20 minutes after it reaches noon in Greenwich. The number of hours that you=20 compute should be equal to the number of hours that you are from Greenwich.= =20 In this case, 7 hours is the conversion for Mountain Standard Time. Now,=20 ignore the hours and look at the minutes. In this case local apparent noon= =20 [when the sun is at its highest point in the sky for that day] will occur 36= =20 minutes after your watch says 12:00. (The reader will note that Calgary is= =20 actually beyond the western limit of time zone 7, which ends at 7 hours 30= =20 minutes, but for political reasons it is included in zone 7, as is the rest= =20 of Alberta. Confused? Then check out your local planetarium for assistance,= =20 or read the amazing chapter on time in the 1984 edition (not the 1995=20 version) of Nathaniel Bowditch's American Practical Navigator : An Epitome= =20 of Navigation, Volume I. Published by the Defense Mapping Agency=20 Hydrographic/Topographic Center Pub. No. 9. 1984.)" (From "Factor's=20 Cassette" in Vol. IX of _Northwest Journal_) The major navigational challenge of the 18th and 19th centuries was to=20 accurately determine longitude at sea. (Anyone have those Earl of=20 Abergavenney gunflints? The sinking of that ship was due to the fact that=20 they did not know their longitude when a storm blew up--they thought they=20 were further from shore than they really were. The loss of that ship and=20 another that was sailing with her led to a major spur by the Admiralty to=20 find a solution to the longitude problem.) The first solution was to use=20 lunar distances (measuring the distance between the moon and other celestial= =20 bodies with a sextant) to find longitude. (This was not easy--Sir Isaac=20 Newton called the lunar distance problem "the only problem that actually=20 made my head ache.") But everyone knew that the real solution was to invent= =20 & mass-produce dependable, accurate watches.=20 I seem to have gotten a little carried away here! Any questions? E-mail my= =20 husband, Jeff Gottfred, at gottfred@telusplanet.net. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:02:07 -0800 From: "Gary A. Bell" <micropt@gte.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Cabela's BP & Cleaning solution John Fleming wrote: > Boy, I wish I had a spell check on E-mail... > Note, I am going to talk about current technology here, out of character for the remainder of this discussion, so those of you who want to stay in character, skip over the rest of this paragraph. I understand that on AOL you have to use their browser--too bad, Netscape has a nice spell checker in their Compose window, but I have heard from a friend who tried that Netscape Communicator can't load on AOL accounts. I am personally allergic to Microsoft's browser, so I can't tell you if it has a spell check or whether it will load in AOL territory. I will point out that you can easily get Netscape Communicator for free online or at a nominal cost off the shelf, and you can find numerous offerings of free email only hosting (like juno.com) or free forwarding email hosts (like rocketmail.com). Other Internet Service Providers have similar prices, better reputations regarding issues like junk email (spam) and no limits regarding browsers you would like to use. There is a lot of conversation around on these topics, I just set out to tell you about getting the spell checker you mentioned. <snip> > > One cleaning solution a friend told me about is simply to mix equal parts of: > > Murphey's oil soap > rubbing alchohol > Hydrogen Peroxide > <snip> > Anyway, this is a great little solvent for black powder. > However, with the > rubbing alchohol, you have to be sure to get it off > completely. Leaving this > stuff on will breed rust. That's great that your pistol is > keeping clean now, > but if you ever need to scrub it hard, then I would suggest > giving this a try. > It's all I use these days... And it's cheap too! My son used this mix on my Lyman GP rifle and Plains Pistol for a summer season when he was staffing the black powder area of a Boy Scout camp--it seems the booshway wanted it done that way with all the arms there. They had a terrible time with rust, and I still find rust creeping out of assorted seams, nooks and crannies in spite of aggressive cleaning and oiling since. My college chemistry tells me that peroxide is the culprit. It makes a very strong acid, and nothing like soda was ever used to neutralize it. Also, there are no other oily materials in this recipe (the oil in the Murphy's has been changed into soap, no longer works as an oil), so nothing is left behind as a barrier over the steel to prevent humidity from attacking it. (Number One Son used a lot of Bore Butter against the rust, but without much success.) The alcohol must act to carry the soap and peroxide into the greasy components of the crud in the bore, the soap attacks and emulsifies the grease and the peroxide dissolves the water soluble stuff very well. I feel that the mix leaves residues, particularly in cracks and crevices in the mechanism--or even in the metal--that leave you an out of control corrosion problem. I think that if you want to use peroxide you ought to follow it with a neutralizing wash with soda or some such; wash that out with lotsa hot water; let that dry completely and give it some sort of oily barrier to preserve the steel. I expect that given the huge amount of varied experience in this august bunch of online buckskinners I have probably started the email equivalent to a fire in the powder magazine! I have heard different recommendations about cleaning from just about everyone involved in black powder, and perhaps we will all hear them again now. Good, in that lots of ideas will pass around and we all can sample from them as we like--and learn. I am by nature neither especially humble, nor particularly obedient, so that leaves me remaining: Your Sincere but Overly Honest Servant, Gary Bell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:07:22 -0600 (CST) From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cleaning solutions(was Cabela's, blah, blah, blah) Friends, I've tried many different solutions (n.p.i.) to the problem, including what my National Park Service friends use: mild detergent and warm water, followed by a drying patch and then oil. I always go back to good ol' Hoppes #9. I scrub the bore with a wire bore brush to loosen all the crapola, then swab several times with #9-soaked patches. I use oversized patches to insure maximum bore coverage (sometimes I have to cut my own). After it's clean enough for me, I swab the bore with an oily patch. Mind you, I also shoot bp and smokeless cartridge rifles and bp revolvers, so I use the #9 in the chambers, nipples, cylinder pins, around the muzzle, and wherever there is likely to be fouling from powder or stains from smoke. (It helps to periodically disassemble the firearm and give the works a thorough cleaning.) These components also get a dose of oil. A good oil is Remington gun oil with Teflon. I keep a can in my gun box. It's a good light oil, and the spray straw comes in handy. It's not necessarily historically authentic, but we're talking about protecting major investments, so I think my conscience can deal with it. It's a lot of work, especially when I take 2-3 guns to the range. AAAUUUGGGGHHH!!! Gotta Love It!! :-) Cheers, HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ******** "Eat with gusto and enthusiasm" ******** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:06:53 -0700 From: "Lee Cardon"<lcardon@insurquote.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Telling Time You can take a rough estimate of your latitude at night, by measuring from the horizon to the north star. 1 fingers width (not length) is approximately = to 1-degree 1 fist width is approximately = to 5-degrees - -Lee Cardon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:17:07 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A gift answers On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Nauga Mok spaketh: > < Also what's a damacus steel? > True Damascus steel <volumes of good stuff on Damascus Steel snipped> > There's a knife catalog that comes out of Georgia (I think -- Atlanta > Cutlery???) that sometimes has blanks & billets for sale at a fairly > reasonable price. the URL for Atlanta Cutlery is... http://www.atlantacutlery.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:20:20 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gone to the ALAFIA RONNYVOUS!!! On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Henry B. Crawford wrote: > I guess I missed it, but where's Alafia? ALAFIA RIVER RENDEZVOUS AND TROPHY SHOOT When: Jan 17-25 1998 Where: Southeast of Tampa (see map at site) More Info? Visit their Webpage! http://home1.gte.net/haddo/alafia98.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:42:00 -0800 From: Hugh Hendrix <hendrixh@aa.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabela's BP & Cleaning solution John, the newer Netscape browsers have a spell check! Regards JFLEMYTH wrote: > One cleaning solution a friend told me about is simply to mix equal parts of: > > Murphey's oil soap > rubbing alchohol > Hydrogen Peroxide > > Boy, I wish I had a spell check on E-mail... > > Anyway, this is a great little solvent for black powder. However, with the > rubbing alchohol, you have to be sure to get it off completely. Leaving this > stuff on will breed rust. That's great that your pistol is keeping clean now, > but if you ever need to scrub it hard, then I would suggest giving this a try. > It's all I use these days... And it's cheap too! > > Keep your powder dry. > > John Fleming > ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #4 ***************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.