Over the past few months I have learnd a lot from this list and I send out my thanks to all. But alass I have more questions.
I am trying to put together a smoothbore a 62cal/20 gage trade rifle in a flint lock. Do any of you have any cataloge address' or other sources? I have Dixie and a old mountain states cataloges but that is it.
Trying to put together an acceptable out fit for the 1800 - 1840's AMM garb I have seen many posts on type of cloth. Everything from canvas for pants and tents to linen. Two extremes. Here is my problem. My wife and I went out tonight and found a plethera of differnt Calico prints, muslin, and linen. The question is what print is acceptable? I know that blue&white, red&white black&red or white. Small squares 1/4 - 1/2" small dots, flowers (small ones)? I have been to a lot of vous that have all kinds of non-normal prints so I am really in need of some advice.
I am using a sweat pant pattern for my pants with out the elastic or pockets and canvas that has been washed at least 3 times to soften it up (got this tip from our cloth lady) on the advice of a AMM member but as for my shirt what pattern of calico?
After reading many of the posts on what is right and wrong I have come to see that someone who is starting out to become a trapper in the 1800's probable bought his first set of clothing in a city or maybe a large trading post. This could have been sewn on an old machine or by hand. I am very aware of the styles of clothing in the sailing ships and if that were to carry over to the mountians it would add up. Not all mountain men were born in the mountains they came from the cities or the sea. I am just trying to put every thing in perspective.
>Trying to put together an acceptable out fit for the 1800 - 1840's
AMM garb I have seen many posts on type of cloth. Everything from
canvas for pants and tents to linen. Two extremes. Here is my pro> I
am using a sweat pant pattern for my pants with ou the elastic or
pockets and canvas that has been washed at least 3 times to soften it
up (got this tip from our cloth lady) on the advice of a AM>
> After reading many of the posts on what is right and wrong I have come to see that someone who is starting out to become a trapper in the 1800's probable bought his first set of clothing in a city
o> Thanks in advance for the advice
>
I ran across a site that specializes in historical fabric. I visited
her store in a little town called Amsterdam in Montana. Amazing. She
has a wall of colonial fabric, pre-civil war fabric, post civil war,
etc. Check out
http://www.patchworks-usa.com/
Brian K. Dokter, CHMM bdokter@hotmail.com
Calvin College
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies." -- Nietzsche
Gum arabic is indeed found in all sorts of products today, acting as an adhesive or binder, including lots of foods and drug products. It is literally the concentrated sap from African acacia trees (a spectacularly
thorny tree common to African desert areas). It is unfortunately not related to hide/hoof glues (which are generally made from any animal sources of collagen protein) about which there have been several nice postings
lately. I particularly liked the recently posted notion of makin' some hide glue out of doggie chew rawhide, and the schoolteacher's posting today from Glenn Darilek. Cookin' down animal protein glue is indeed a smelly
process! You can buy the stuff already cooked into a powder at old style hardware stores and cabinet maker supply businesses. This stuff certainly did serve, and still can serve as a wonderful glue. The term glue pot
reefers to hide glue's need to be heated to melting and applied hot. Think Hot-Melt glue, old style and you will get the right idea. This collagen protein is used in the original animals as the chief glue, holding
things together, repairing damage (scar tissue) and making wonderfully strong and light composite structures like bone, hide, fur and hoofs from various fibers, kinda predating fiberglass and reinforced concrete but
along the same engineering lines.
I noted several submissions about the adhesive properties of traditional paint bases, egg white and milk proteins, basically. Casein glue, available still today is precipitated from milk by cooking with a mild acid,
and is both a fine water soluble paint base and glue. Paints have used the adhesive properties of the albumen protein in egg white and casein in milk for many centuries.
I have not spotted recent postings under this adhesive heading about various tree sap/resin adhesives, from the boiled pitch used in the illustrious birch bark canoes to the much discussed pine tar. I suppose that found
"geologic" sources of asphalt tar would fall into a similar category, in terms of its utility as a historic adhesive, ultimately derived from trees and plants.
I do not know whether the seaweed based adhesives we know as mucilage were in common use in the historic time and place of our concentration, perhaps somebody out there will know.
In some applications plaster like compounds serve as adhesives too, from mortaring brick and stone to again making paint bases.
I suppose that it takes only a little imagination and experience to judge how strong most of these adhesives are, and where they are each better suited. In my experience the hide glues are very strong and particularly
easy to use once you are set up with a heated glue pot. They are the choice adhesive for making guitars/violins, and fancy woodworking still today. The other adhesives are much less strong, and while well suited as a
paint base would not likely hold a broken rifle stock together long.
Worth noting here is the Native American's resourceful use of shrinking wraps of soaked rawhide to repair and sometimes simply to decorate rifles, tip arrows and lances, etc.. I am leading into the suggestion that if
strength is required of these adhesives sometimes a mechanical component like stitched sinew or rawhide wrap or a strategically placed metal rivet is needed to compliment the adhesive of choice.
I leave to the conscience of the reenacter the choice of using modern adhesives, epoxy, cyanoacrylate (Krazy Glue), and a plethora of others, in places where they would do the job the best and be hard to detect. I have
for example knife scales held on mostly by epoxy. Artful use of stitches and rivets serve to conceal my unorthodoxy.
kat wrote:
> Gum arabic is the basis for most glues. It is rabbit hide derived. Making most glue is a nasty smelly project in my experience. I hope someone can prove me wrong so I can finally make some to go with everything else!
Rabbit hide is indeed specifically made into a hide glue, sometimes called rabbit sizing, used particularly for a coating before laying on gold leaf to "gild" things, like picture frames, statues, etc.. A gum
arabic adhesive would also serve this purpose, (although less well) and is sometimes used. Perhaps the confusion originated there....
Gary Bell
(still working on a 'Vous name, but just the same let's NOT use Sticky, OK?)
kat wrote:
> >From the info I have gotten from the list, the Art Instructer I had must have been mistaken. Perhaps there is another adhesive source that looks/sounds a lot like gum arabic that is from rabbit hide? Hmmmmm.
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Dear Joe,
I most of the time try to be nice about comments geared toward the Native American but on this one I must stand up and be counted.
My wife is Hopi and while she is not a member of this list she does at times read a lot of the posts. WE both were VERY upset at your comment about the Native American and AIM. We have lived on the Res. and have experenced the Res way of life. YOU are wrong! It is not easy to get a job when up until the late 60's early 70's school ment being taken away from your family and forced to learn not with compasion but fear. Next AIM was and is a very important part of the Native Movement. Why do you call it a joke? Do you understand that the whites have done more to wipe out the native than help? Point in hand Partition of the Hopi and Deni' lands ment that if you broke a window in your home you could not fix it! Not even a piece of plywood could be used. This was in the partition lands and it went on for almost 20 years. This was NOT an Indian idea or law but the white man. As for work the Native American is still one of the least hireable persons around the reservation. On one res because of lack of work the drug and booze problem is around 80% where do the indians get their stull the white man.
Joe when you make comments like you did please try and be aware that there are alot of other people who read these posts. Why do you want to fan the fires of hate and lies when you can be a human as we Native Americans call the tribes instead of just a white man? Blacks, irish, spic's, wapp's what ever title you want to put on people we are all human I hope. I am NOT PC I hate what the government has done to the people of this land but what can we do to change it be human. The whiutes have punished the Indian far to long now it is time to mend the wounds.
Paul Amschler
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One other thing about bamboo the southern california indians in the Santa Monica Bay also used cane/bamboo for all kinds of differnt thing from spears to arrows. If you ever get a chance to visit the Southwest Indian Muesem you will see many exibits that show the use of this product as far back as 1200's.
Bamboo when fired make a very stiff and hard weapon to be use in many ways. As stated before fish traps, game snares etc. so thats my two cents. Once again if you can get to the muesem do so it is very good source of later indian wares out side of th e plains indians,
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I have seen a lot of differnt posts on everything from teflon patches to Indian sign. Now I have a question that may or may not draw the ere of a few people but it is one that I hope will cause some good lively posts. AND this has everything to do with the list. ok here we go
Knowing that the church of Rome sent many missionaries to the Indians and in towns it was common to find at least one church, has any one ever seen a accounts of pastors (maybe as we know them today) going into the mountians to preach at vous?
I know that once the white man moved into indian lands they gave the missionaries free run of the place to see if they could turn the savage to God hence to the white ways hence the destruction of the native life style and the tribes. But in studing the topic I have onle seen one time where preachers went to the Mountian Men. That being in 1800 on the French trading post.
> Knowing that the church of Rome sent many missionaries to the Indians and in towns it was common to find at least one church, has any one ever seen a accounts of pastors (maybe as we know them today) going into the mountians to preach at vous?
As far as Catholics, Father deSmet (sp?) was in the Horse Creek
rendezvous area of the Green River, but I don't think it was at a
rendezvous. Someone correct me untill I can get home to my meager
library.
As far as Protestants, of course we have Henry Spalding, Gray, Whitman,
and Narcissa Whitman, who I believe was a preacher in her own right.
They were at the 1836 rendezvous, and maybe some other. Check Dean
Rudy's on line AMM library for some diaries of I think Spalding and
Whitman.
Joe Meek reported a humorous anecdote for one rendezvous. One of the
preachers above was giving a Sabbath sermon at a rendezvous. The
service was well-attended by mountain men until a small group of buffalo
appeared in the distance. At the sight of the buffalo, the mountain men
bolted, favoring the hunt for meat over the quest for salvation.
