ftp.xmission.com

home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search

/ ftp.xmission.com / 2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar / ftp.xmission.com / pub / lists / hist_text / archive / hist_text.9804 < prev next >

Wrap

Internet Message Format | 1998-04-30 | 284KB

From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Straight Razors Date: 31 Mar 1998 03:18:12 -1000 ITWHEELER wrote: > > chicogo- spelling? cutlerly again spelling? hear in ca. has many typs > of > razors. from all over. they fit real nice in your shoe. he he. chicogo > cutlery. try there. mine that i use ona regular basis is from solingen > germany > yes plastick. i have seen a few in hock shops and atiqe [spelling] > shops . > wee have a kind of club of sorts and get together to sharpin our > razors let > me know if you need some information on sharpining witch i the only > they will > work right imean sharp. > iron tounge forge > wks. Would appreciate some sharpening tips. I got a couple straight razors, too. Us women use 'em, too, ya know. Nothin' shaves a leg like a good old cut-throat. Know where I can find a strop? Aloha Blue ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Straight Razors Date: 31 Mar 1998 23:42:02 -0800 (PST) Thanks fer all the responses on the razors. I've ordered one from Godwins, along with some spectacles to replace my modern frames. If you look through Godwins site, the razors are under "Pocket Knives" of all places, I missed it the first couple of times through. Regards Lee Newbill Viola, Idaho email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage http://www.uidaho.edu/~lnewbill/bp.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Straight Razors Date: 01 Apr 1998 10:05:07 -0600 (CST) >chicogo- spelling? cutlerly again spelling? hear in ca. has many typs of >razors. from all over. they fit real nice in your shoe. he he. chicogo >cutlery. It's C-H-I-C-A-G-O. My home town. Chicago Cutlery is still based there, with stores in other cities. The main store is a knife-lover's dream (or was last time I saw it). Cheers, HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ************* PLAY BALL!!!! *************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Straight Razors Date: 01 Apr 1998 10:05:07 -0600 (CST) >chicogo- spelling? cutlerly again spelling? hear in ca. has many typs of >razors. from all over. they fit real nice in your shoe. he he. chicogo >cutlery. It's C-H-I-C-A-G-O. My home town. Chicago Cutlery is still based there, with stores in other cities. The main store is a knife-lover's dream (or was last time I saw it). Cheers, HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ************* PLAY BALL!!!! *************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Straight Razors Date: 01 Apr 1998 11:13:08 -0600 (CST) >Would appreciate some sharpening tips. I got a couple straight razors, >too. Us women use 'em, too, ya know. Nothin' shaves a leg like a good >old cut-throat. Know where I can find a strop? > Tandy Leather. Get the thickest, hardest oak tan you can find. HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ************* PLAY BALL!!!! *************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Straight Razors Date: 01 Apr 1998 11:19:45 -0600 (CST) >Thanks fer all the responses on the razors. I've ordered one from >Godwins, along with some spectacles to replace my modern frames. > >If you look through Godwins site, the razors are under "Pocket Knives" of >all places, I missed it the first couple of times through. > Lee, Let me have that URL again. Thanks HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ************* PLAY BALL!!!! *************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sgtsam@cp.duluth.mn.us Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Straight Razors Date: 01 Apr 1998 12:03:32 -0600 (CST) >ITWHEELER wrote: >> >> chicogo- spelling? cutlerly again spelling? hear in ca. has many typs >> of >> razors. from all over. they fit real nice in your shoe. he he. chicogo >> cutlery. try there. mine that i use ona regular basis is from solingen >> germany >> yes plastick. i have seen a few in hock shops and atiqe [spelling] >> shops . >> wee have a kind of club of sorts and get together to sharpin our >> razors let >> me know if you need some information on sharpining witch i the only >> they will >> work right imean sharp. >> iron tounge forge >> wks. > > >Would appreciate some sharpening tips. I got a couple straight razors, >too. Us women use 'em, too, ya know. Nothin' shaves a leg like a good >old cut-throat. Know where I can find a strop? > >Aloha >Blue ------------------------ Most antique shops have a strop or two around. Check enough places and you'll find one in good shape. I have two, "Like New," found in this manner. P. Girard > hes ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Straight Razors Date: 01 Apr 1998 10:23:01 -0800 (PST) On Wed, 1 Apr 1998, Henry B. Crawford wrote: > Let me have that URL again. Henry, the URL for G. Gedney Godwin, The Sutler of Mount Misery is; http://gggodwin.com/ You have to look around as he has put some of his merchandise in unexpected categories. Regards Lee Newbill Viola, Idaho email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage http://www.uidaho.edu/~lnewbill/bp.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com (Michael Pierce) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Straight Razors ( stropes and sharpening) Date: 01 Apr 1998 13:53:21 -0500 If you rub in a bit of fine car rubbing compound to the rough side of the oak tan leather it will do wonders to the sharpening of the razor. If you want sharp inleting chizzles, if you strop your inleting chizzles similar to a razor it will help to get the edge. "Old gunsmithing trick". Then go to the slick side for the final finish. I have a two pieces cemented on a wooden blocks that i use in the shop, One with rubbing compound and one with the slick side. You will only need to apply it once cause it will stay in the grain of the leather almost forever. In effect it gives you a surgical steel stone effect without the cost of buying a hard arkansas, and you still have the slick side for the final finish of the razor. "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(813) 771-1815 On Wed, 01 Apr 1998 11:13:08 -0600 (CST) mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) writes: > >>Would appreciate some sharpening tips. I got a couple straight >razors, >>too. Us women use 'em, too, ya know. Nothin' shaves a leg like a >good >>old cut-throat. Know where I can find a strop? >> > >Tandy Leather. Get the thickest, hardest oak tan you can find. > >HBC > >***************************************** >Henry B. Crawford Curator of History >mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University >806/742-2442 Box 43191 >FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 > WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum >************* " WHO WANTS TO PLAY BALL!!!! *************** > >something has been changed in the line above--- HA HA. *************************END OF MSG ************************************ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Straight Razors Date: 01 Apr 1998 20:56:46 EST same place . butt you need a good stone and some dimon grit yes dimon as in ring its the best. put it on a piece of thick balsa wood that is stiff enough too hold presure of the razor being pushed away from the cut at a 45* angle be carful not too cut into the grane of the wood. yuo can get the stuff at a lapadary shop. start out with a good stone then 3 typs of grit heavy medium and fine its real cheap alittle goes along way. iron toungs forge wks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Straight Razors Date: 01 Apr 1998 21:01:02 EST thanks for the tip. please excuse my spelling. iron tounge forge wks. ps. im a smelly old worn out blacksmith not very good at spelling ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing <SWcushing@aol.com> Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: Straight Razors Date: 01 Apr 1998 21:15:30 EST In a message dated 4/1/98 10:14:31 AM, you wrote: << I've ordered one from Godwins, along with some spectacles>> Whoa......spectacles? I need some spectacles....... just so there ain't no plastic on em. You got an address for Godwins? Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing <SWcushing@aol.com> Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: Straight Razors Date: 01 Apr 1998 21:21:52 EST Ooops.....thanks Lee, got it now. Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Traphand <Traphand@aol.com> Subject: MtMan-List: missouri fur trade warehouse in st.louis Date: 01 Apr 1998 22:52:09 EST the warehouse was at main and chestnut, it measured 26x671/2 feet.the structure was called the old rock house.it was owned by the missouri fur company.and others in the trade after lisa died.a small history of the building going like this it was plain in appearancethe ware house had a gabled front and two floors.it barely was singed by the fire of 1849.in 1880 it became a saloon and night club.the national parks service got it in 1936.it was dismantledin 1939.according to robert moore historian for the jefferson national expansion memorial the supposed restoration wasreally a reconstruction because the limestone and other materials had seriously deteriorated.only ten to twenty percent of the original building was left.moore said when the project was completed in 1941 the rock house looked the same as it did in 1818.only 150 stones from the westwall were from the original building.the rock house was again dis mantled in 1950 to allow the relocation of some railroad tracksin conjuction with the building of the arch.the site of the rock house was occupied by the stairs on the north side of the arch.the remaining stonecan be seen in the northwest galleryof the old courthouse.[st.louis lost. by mary bartley] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu> Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: Straight Razors Date: 01 Apr 1998 22:16:27 -0800 (PST) On Wed, 1 Apr 1998, SWcushing wrote: > Whoa......spectacles? I need some spectacles....... just so there ain't no > plastic on em. You got an address for Godwins? Steve, the URL for G. Gedney Godwin, The Sutler of Mount Misery is; http://gggodwin.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Straight Razors Date: 02 Apr 1998 08:37:14 -0600 (CST) >thanks for the tip. please excuse my spelling. > iron tounge forge wks. > > > ps. > im a smelly old worn out blacksmith not very good at spelling But one hell of a blacksmith. Cheers, HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ************* PLAY BALL!!!! *************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tigrbo1 <tigrbo1@ibm.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Islanders in the Mtns Date: 02 Apr 1998 19:59:43 -0800 Blue Rider wrote: > Thanks so much for this info. Never had any idea Islanders were > working on the Mainland in that time period. Greetings Blue Rider, In the event that no one has mentioned it, the towns of Kalama and Friday Harbor, here in Washington state are named after Kanakas that worked at Ft. Nisqually now relocated at Point Defiance Park in Tacoma. Best regards, Terry Smith ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: zaslow <zaz@pacificnet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Green River knife Date: 03 Apr 1998 05:30:29 -0800 (PST) Dear Carp, Tim is probably right about the rivets. I have an original Sheffield knife that I found in a junk bin of a collectable store for $9. It is pinned with six pins. You still have a good knife, though. Best Regards, Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LODGEPOLE <LODGEPOLE@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Straight Razors Date: 03 Apr 1998 12:00:13 EST In a message dated 98-03-31 00:48:38 EST, you write: << I'm needing a straight razor, and can not find a good source for any with non-plastic handles. >> Don't know off hand of any sorces for you Lee, but you could always get a new one and knock off the plastic and put on a piece of bone or antler. My current patch knife is such. I was in an antique store one day and saw a piece of antler sticking out of a piece of leather in a glass case. I asked the lady what it was and she said "I could take a look, it was open." What I found was a straight razor with an antler handle. It had a tag saying $7.00. I was afraid that was a mistake and asked "$7.00?" She replyed "Ok, I'll take $4.00." Anyway, I have no idea as to the age of thing except that it sure wasn't born any time in the recent past. It sure makes for a dandy patch knife. Longshot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Carpenter Family <kcarpenter@bigbear.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Straight Razors Date: 03 Apr 1998 17:24:20 +0000 LODGEPOLE wrote: > > In a message dated 98-03-31 00:48:38 EST, you write: > > << I'm needing a straight razor, and can not find a good source for any with > non-plastic handles. >> > > It seems, years ago, Dixie Gun Works had a source for these. You might try them. Carp ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Straight Razors Date: 03 Apr 1998 23:03:25 EST thats a grate idea colectively i think we can make this rondvoo thing work. agin thats one hell of an ide iron toung ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Singer" <ssinger@sprynet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: phone call Date: 04 Apr 1998 11:27:36 -0700 I got a message on my answering machine from someone, asking "Are you the same Scott Singer thats on the Muzzleloader Mailing List?" Whoever it was didn't leave a message, but they must have found the right person. Give me a call back or drop me an email if you still want to talk. Scott Singer, aka "Spinner" WWW Rendezvous Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/~wwwrendezvous Territorial Dispatch/National Association of Buckskinners Web Site http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/4833 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com (Michael Pierce) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Straight Razors (atlanta Cuttlery) Date: 04 Apr 1998 10:40:01 -0500 dixie usto buy their Strait Razor Blank blades from "atlanta cuttlery" dont have one of their catalogs anymore or their address any more but they had a booth at friendship and did a whopping mail order business for all types of blades and knives. they even had some damascus blanks that made some nice knives. had some damascus razor blanks . if i remember right a order over $100.00 you got a good discount, almost like wholesale type of thing. They were always running specials, and relied on turnover more than anything else to make their profit. they also had curved skinners and stickers with the hardwood handles similar to the green rivers. only the handels were rivited with 3 large rivets and didn't have the 5 pins. the knives held a good edge and we are still using some of their skinners to dress deer and stuff with at deer camp. their stickers make good kitchen or cooking blades. Boone in oklahoma forged me a copy and the only problem is that it stays too sharp to use in the kitchen has a problem with cutting fingers and stuff that you are not intended to cut. someone out ther is probably getting a copy of the Atlanta Cutlery catalog and can provide the address and 800 number for ordering their blades. "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(813) 771-1815 On Fri, 03 Apr 1998 17:24:20 +0000 Carpenter Family <kcarpenter@bigbear.net> writes: >LODGEPOLE wrote: >> >> In a message dated 98-03-31 00:48:38 EST, you write: >> >> << I'm needing a straight razor, and can not find a good source for >any with >> non-plastic handles. >> >> >> It seems, years ago, Dixie Gun Works had a source for these. You >might try them. > >Carp > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Singer" <ssinger@sprynet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: Missouri River Rifle Works Date: 04 Apr 1998 14:36:33 -0700 Forward message FYI -----Original Message----- >Does anyone know why the Missouri River Rifle Works operation( AKA >Hatfield Rifle ) is so snooty that you have to have a special password or >authentication designation in order to access their site. I was interested >in a Hatfield Rifle, but these people are apparently so "SPECIAL" that I >doubt I want to deal with them at all !!!! > >Is it just me or what ??? Scott Singer, aka "Spinner" WWW Rendezvous Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/~wwwrendezvous Territorial Dispatch/National Association of Buckskinners Web Site http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/4833 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "P.D. Amschler" <buckskinner@mailcity.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Liver eat'n Johnson Date: 05 Apr 1998 00:56:59 -0700 Here we go again, I am lookin for a copy of 'Liver Eat'n Jhonson' does any one know if it is still in print or where I can get a copy? Next: Thank you all for the info on where to get kit guns I found it very helpful! Getting one next month and then on to my next project a "plains indian bow". That I have some real good help with a Lakota elder! I hope to have a web site up and running soon with info on this project. Has anyone ever dealt with Amazon Dry Goods? Paul The<BEAR> Get your FREE, private e-mail account at http://www.mailcity.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox <ThisOldFox@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: Missouri River Rifle Works Date: 05 Apr 1998 20:36:23 EDT In a message dated 98-04-05 20:23:33 EDT, you write: > >Does anyone know why the Missouri River Rifle Works operation( AKA > >Hatfield Rifle ) is so snooty that you have to have a special password or > >authentication designation in order to access their site. I was interested > >in a Hatfield Rifle, but these people are apparently so "SPECIAL" that I > >doubt I want to deal with them at all !!!! > > > >Is it just me or what ??? MRW/aka Hatfield went down the tubes about February. They supposedly left the city hanging with a default on a 1 million loan, and sources have said they left the NMRLA with an unpaid advertising bill for MuzzleBlasts and who knows what else. This info has been confirmed. This Hatfield was another flash in the pan enterprise. OldFox ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TetonTod <TetonTod@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Liver eat'n Johnson Date: 05 Apr 1998 21:12:12 EDT I believe the book you may be looking for is Crow Killer, The Saga of Liver- Eating Johnson by Raymond W. Thorp and Robert Bunker. It's still widely available and any bookstore should be able to order it for you. If you are interested in "Dapiek Absaroka", you may want to check out this E-mail groups archives under the subject of Liver-Eating Johnson. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MWMEDGAR <MWMEDGAR@aol.com> Subject: MtMan-List: trade axes and tomahawks Date: 06 Apr 1998 08:03:31 EDT I'm writing a book about iron trade axes and tomahawks and their makers. I was hoping some people out there would be able to lead me to some names of blacksmiths who worked at the various posts, forts and indian villages and where to find out more information in that regard. Thanks, Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn Darilek <llsi@texas.net> Subject: MtMan-List: John Jacob Astor Date: 06 Apr 1998 06:26:01 -0500 I don't think it has been mentioned on these pages, but James L. Stokesbury has a short biography of John Jacob Astor starting at: http://www.thehistorynet.com/AmericanHistory/articles/1997/12972_cover.htm Iron Burner ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Casapy123 <Casapy123@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Liver eat'n Johnson Date: 06 Apr 1998 01:00:20 EDT There are three out-of-print book searches on the internet: HTTP:\\www.Interloc.com, HTTP:\\www.bibliofind.com, and HTTP:\\www.ABEbooks.com. All have literally thousands of books you can search by title, author, subject and key words. If the book you're looking for is around, one of them is liable to have it listed and tell you which dealer to contact. (Now that I've given everyone these addresses, I'll probably never be able to find the books I'm looking for cause you'll all beat me to them.) I've dealt with Amazon a few times. Had good luck with items in stock, quality is good. they have an enormous amount of patterns availalbe. An entire separate catalog's worth. Jim Hardee AMM #1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 (530)283-4566 (H) (530)283-3330 (W) (530)283-5171 FAX Casapy123@aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kat <kat@janrix.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Amazon Dry Goods Date: 06 Apr 1998 08:17:08 -0400 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6135.495AF2A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have dealt with them in the past when there was absolutely no other = way to get the items I needed. I have found them to be extremely = over-priced, rude, unhelpful, and the one time I needed to make an = exchange (their mistake) they charged me shipping on the original, the = return and the new item. You may have a completely different experience. = I hope you do.=20 Kat Hargus owner, Making Time www.makingtime.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6135.495AF2A0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiAMAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYA6AEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAVwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGhpc3RfdGV4dEBsaXN0 cy54bWlzc2lvbi5jb20AU01UUABoaXN0X3RleHRAbGlzdHMueG1pc3Npb24uY29tAAAeAAIwAQAA AAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAHQAAAGhpc3RfdGV4dEBsaXN0cy54bWlzc2lvbi5jb20AAAAA AwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAAHwAAACdoaXN0X3RleHRAbGlzdHMueG1pc3Npb24uY29t JwAAAgELMAEAAAAiAAAAU01UUDpISVNUX1RFWFRATElTVFMuWE1JU1NJT04uQ09NAAAAAwAAOQAA AAALAEA6AQAAAB4A9l8BAAAAHQAAAGhpc3RfdGV4dEBsaXN0cy54bWlzc2lvbi5jb20AAAAAAgH3 XwEAAABXAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAaGlzdF90ZXh0QGxpc3RzLnhtaXNzaW9u LmNvbQBTTVRQAGhpc3RfdGV4dEBsaXN0cy54bWlzc2lvbi5jb20AAAMA/V8BAAAAAwD/XwAAAAAC AfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAACoXQBBIABABEAAABBbWF6b24gRHJ5IEdvb2RzANEFAQWAAwAOAAAAzgcE AAYACAARAAgAAQABAQEggAMADgAAAM4HBAAGAAgADgAOAAEABAEBCYABACEAAAA3NUVFQUFCNTUz NjFCRDExODE5ODYyNDE0NjYzQjkwNgABBwEDkAYAzAQAACEAAAALAAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAm AAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAgMdq61VhvQEeAHAAAQAAABEAAABBbWF6 b24gRHJ5IEdvb2RzAAAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG9YVXrJ2w71sHNJRHRthm/mJrGgZ8AAB4AHgwB AAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAPAAAAa2F0QGphbnJpeC5jb20AAAMABhDn7e44AwAHEEsB AAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABJSEFWRURFQUxUV0lUSFRIRU1JTlRIRVBBU1RXSEVOVEhFUkVXQVNBQlNP TFVURUxZTk9PVEhFUldBWVRPR0VUVEhFSVRFTVNJTkVFREVESUhBVkVGT1VORFRIRU1UT0JFRVhU AAAAAAIBCRABAAAAvwEAALsBAAArAgAATFpGdU2E3UIDAAoAcmNwZzEyNRYyAPgLYG4OEDAzM50B 9yACpAPjAgBjaArAYHNldDAgBxMCgH05CoF1YwBQCwMBMCBJ4iARAHZlIAEAB0AFQBED8HRoIBPg ZW0g6wuAFAIgCrBzE6EUIBRzVwlwE7AU4CABoHMG8HUAdGVseSBubyCubxVyFcEWoHQW0GcRQN8U gxPQFDAEIBLwbgngAQCMZC4S5gIQdW5kFATFF5FiE0BleHQJcAeARRaRbxMwci1wBRBj4QmALCBy dQEAHBAZ0MEUIGxwZnVsHBAAcP8Z8xbgGMAUAAdxGJcXggDAfmsTQAORGsAQ8Q8gE0AodRQRaQXA bQQAAZAfMCk/FAIWoBDyF8AZ8B4hc2h1BSBwC4BnHbEddAUQZ98LgAdAHBAUkglwdAhwA6DfHUYY wAfgGEIZIFkIYB8B+xagExNhIWADcAtQEUAWgrpkBpBmFZECMBqxcAZxlwnwG+AZI28n8CB5JaE8 ZG8ZIAqiCoQKgEthNQVASCGRdRDAKZNvd/UYwHIcEE0fICJyB2IphLp3LMAuHxEicR4CLiaBFymK KYoR8QAvoAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcwwOqSg1VhvQFAAAgwwOqSg1VhvQEL AACACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAAoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCF AAAAAAAAAwAFgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeACWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4LjAAAwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAC+A CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAA AAAAAwAygAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAA AB4AQ4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAA AwANNP03AAC99Q== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6135.495AF2A0-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Loch David Crane <capnkirk@connectnet.com> (by way of Dean Rudy <drudy@xmission.com>) Subject: MtMan-List: Col. Tom McCoy's movie Date: 06 Apr 1998 20:28:15 -0600 can I get a copy of The Silent Language of the Plains somewhere?? --Loch <home.connectnet.com/capnkirk> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Pamela Wheeler" <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Straight Razors (atlanta Cuttlery) Date: 06 Apr 1998 09:02:27 -0500 Howdy Hawk and all, Address is: Atlanta Cutlery 2143 Gees Mill Road Box 839 Conyers, Georgia 30207 Tool free # is 1-800-883-0300 Your Obt. Servant, Ken YellowFeather 608 Marilyn Drive Schertz, TX. 78154 (210)-658-5336 ---------- > From: Michael Pierce <hawknest4@juno.com> > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Straight Razors (atlanta Cuttlery) > Date: Saturday, April 04, 1998 10:40 AM > > dixie usto buy their Strait Razor Blank blades from "atlanta cuttlery" > dont have one of their catalogs anymore or their address any more but > they had a booth at friendship and did a whopping mail order business for > all types of blades and knives. they even had some damascus blanks that > made some nice knives. had some damascus razor blanks . if i remember > right a order over $100.00 you got a good discount, almost like wholesale > type of thing. They were always running specials, and relied on turnover > more than anything else to make their profit. they also had curved > skinners and stickers with the hardwood handles similar to the green > rivers. only the handels were rivited with 3 large rivets and didn't > have the 5 pins. the knives held a good edge and we are still using some > of their skinners to dress deer and stuff with at deer camp. > > their stickers make good kitchen or cooking blades. Boone in oklahoma > forged me a copy and the only problem is that it stays too sharp to use > in the kitchen has a problem with cutting fingers and stuff that you are > not intended to cut. > > someone out ther is probably getting a copy of the Atlanta Cutlery > catalog and can provide the address and 800 number for ordering their > blades. > > "Hawk" > Michael Pierce > 854 Glenfield Dr. > Palm Harbor, florida 34684 > 1-(813) 771-1815 > > On Fri, 03 Apr 1998 17:24:20 +0000 Carpenter Family > <kcarpenter@bigbear.net> writes: > >LODGEPOLE wrote: > >> > >> In a message dated 98-03-31 00:48:38 EST, you write: > >> > >> << I'm needing a straight razor, and can not find a good source for > >any with > >> non-plastic handles. >> > >> > >> It seems, years ago, Dixie Gun Works had a source for these. You > >might try them. > > > >Carp > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Burglary Date: 02 Apr 1998 08:00:40 -0700 -----Original Message----- Dear LongWalker, again, I'm from Utah, and your capote and mine sound an awful lot a like, but I'll be your sleeves are too long for me. But since it sounds a lot like mine -- it doesn't sound all that unusual -- it you know what I mean. The molds for them thar, dare I say it, "cartridge/suppository" if peddled as a group are the most unusual thing. If the bad guys know their potiential markets for the molds, they'll probably take them to a big gun show. Here in Utah, there's a big gun show at the Salt Palace in Salt Lake City this coming weekend. The following weekend, is the big Easter Rendezvous at Fort Buenaventura. I'll probably be trapping beaver instead of haning out in the settlements that weekend, but just in case I find time go to Fort I'm hoping it's a warm day so I don't have to wear my big white-and-black striped Whitney blanket capote sewn with linen thread, chest size 50. If you could add some more descriptive information, such as maker's names, brands, packaging, and calibers on those suppository bullet molds I'll see if anything stands out at the gun show in Salt Lake this weekend. There will be traders there with tables piled high with with all kinds of gun parts, accessories, and accoutraments, so theres got to be something unusual to look for before we can hope to do you any good in helping catch the bad guys. Dave >Washtahay- >At 05:08 AM 3/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Dear LongWalker, >> >>I'd sincerely like to help you nail the bad guys, but really, take a step >>back and look at the information you've provided about the stolen property. >>Similar items could be found at just about any rendezvous. > > Where you at? Any rendezvous that has capotes my size and 200+ >bullet moulds being sold by someone who obviously doesn't fit in, I think I >want to attend! >> >>I'm not sure what a suppository gun is, but I try not to make a habit out of >>checking other people's suppositories. Can you provide a better description >>of the 200 bullet molds. > Well, I was trying to avoid the use of the 'c' word. In other >words, the moulds are for cartridge guns. A better description? I could, >but I really didn't think this was an appropriate place to post a detailed >list of over 200 moulds, by Ideal or Lyman mould numbers, with approximate >vintage, cherry number, maker's initials, and diameters cast in two >different alloys.;-) >> >>What's really the unique and differently that would make a positive >>identification of any of the the stolen property? > I am not asking for anyone to make a positive identification of the >property-that is what law enforcement is for! All I was hoping for was a >possible heads-up if some druggie showed up somewhere trying to peddle this >stuff. > I know-it is a long shot. But I am really not expecting my >insurance company to be able to replace the moulds-it took me 20 years to >collect them together. >LongWalker c. du B. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Colleen" <admgilb@amber.indstate.edu> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Col. Tom McCoy's movie Date: 07 Apr 1998 09:24:15 -0500 > can I get a copy of The Silent Language of the Plains somewhere?? > --Loch > <home.connectnet.com/capnkirk> check under http://www.amazon.com Colleen ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Allen" <allen@blueridge-ef.SAIC.COM> Subject: MtMan-List: Homepage additions Date: 07 Apr 1998 14:40:16 -0500 Hello the list, Just got done up dating my homepage and am kinda proud of it. I added a second page with loads of pictures from past scouts and rondys. Soon I hope to have some period music on it too. If you're interested, just click on my url below and the go to the bottom of my links to the Photo Gallery link. Your most humble servant, Scott Allen Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick Fairplay, MD http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Carlson Wagonlit Travel <travel@turbonet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: pine tar Date: 08 Apr 1998 09:27:44 Here's a question bound to stump all of you. What exactly is pine tar, and also where can you get it??! I can't seem to find anyone with any info on it. Matt Mitchell Palouse Hills Muzzleloaders Moscow, Idaho travel@turbonet.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Sorensen <sorensen@austin.technow.com> Subject: MtMan-List: BP Info Date: 08 Apr 1998 15:17:18 -0500 Greetings to the List I live in Austin TX and am having an awful time finding real blackpowder. All the shops seem to blame it on the distributor for this area blowing up a while back and it is impossible to get it. My read: we don't want to carry it--use pyrodex When I pursue the discussion they all make reference to how crazy and misguided I am to preferring the original. Needless to say I don't get very far and they don't get a sale. Now to my question. It looks like I need to order it myself via the mail (I guess). I have not done this, and I thought I would check the wisdom of the list on the best / most cost effective way of doing this. Are there things I need to worry about? Thanks in advance for your help as I am down to my last pound. Cheers, Brian ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wil Thomas <godswil@spectra.net> Subject: MtMan-List: vous in Pa. Date: 08 Apr 1998 17:54:26 -0400 don't know your location but in sept/oct at raccoon creek state park, hookstown. NMLRA eastern primitive. http://home.earthlink.net/~segundo98/ If your near central NY boarder, a few guys are starting a group in Binghamton area. Interested? or interested parties? contact me here. Or dickp@spectra.net Wil " EASY " ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <rat@htcomp.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pine tar Date: 08 Apr 1998 18:02:30 -0500 Pine tar is sort of a stickumpucky used to increase the gripability of a baseball bat. Presumably this is what you are refering to. Try a big sporting goods store that carries lots of baseball equipment---or call the nearest major league baseball team. Lanney Ratcliff -----Original Message----- >Here's a question bound to stump all of you. >What exactly is pine tar, and also where can you get it??! >I can't seem to find anyone with any info on it. > >Matt Mitchell >Palouse Hills Muzzleloaders >Moscow, Idaho >travel@turbonet.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dale Nelson <dnelson@wizzards.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pine tar Date: 08 Apr 1998 16:07:57 -0700 Carlson Wagonlit Travel wrote: > > What exactly is pine tar, and also where can you get it??! > I can't seem to find anyone with any info on it. Pine Tar is an old time remedy for doctoring horses feet. I used pine tar in hoof dressing and also when shoeing a horse with a leather pad under the shoe. Beneath the pad it is packed with pine tar and oakum. I bought pine tar in them there days -- which was probably close to thirty years ago -- at the local feed store, or where ever I purchased my horseshoeing supplies. Pine tar is actually resin from pine trees that has been distilled somehow. Dale Nelson dnelson@wizzards.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dale Nelson <dnelson@wizzards.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BP Info Date: 08 Apr 1998 16:11:27 -0700 Brian Sorensen wrote: > > Greetings to the List > I live in Austin TX and am having an awful time finding real > blackpowder. Usually any rendezvous I go to has more than one person selling black powder. If you order it via a catalog, it has to be shipped UPS, and they charge hazmat fees etc. so it costs more. Dale Nelson dnelson@wizzards.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RR1LA <RR1LA@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pine tar Date: 08 Apr 1998 19:33:53 EDT Dear Matt, This one is kinda like the duck story: if it smells like Pine, sticks like Pine, and seals like Pine, its Pine (trees). It's made from the sap, I have found (the tar or 'pitch') avaliable in different forms for different uses. Pitch Pine split into small sticks (also called Georgia Fatwood) is GREAT for getting a fire going; I see it available in catalogs for camping and barbeque supplies and in some places that sell fireplace supplies. Brewers' Pitch, available in bulk, can be used for sealing kegs, barrels, tins, sacks, gourds, etc., and I have found it through both catalogs (you might check Tippecanoe) and also brewers supply places, whether for home or commercial. Also, Pine resin, in a powdered form is used for baseball bats, axe handles and stuff you swing. A sporting goods store would be good for that stuff. A good place to start for sources near you might be the internet. Hope this helps. PJ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RR1LA <RR1LA@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BP Info Date: 08 Apr 1998 19:53:23 EDT Dear Brian, Heres some BP sources listed in MuzzleLoader Magazine. Goex Inc. (has full list of dealers) - 717-457-6724 Elephant Black Powder - 800-588-8282 Arlington, Texas (internet orders www.fastlane.net/~petro) Goex Powder w/ free Goex hat - 419-422-2227 Coonies Goex (been around for years) 800-713-6321 Hobbs, NM Upper Missouri Trading (Elephant Brand) 402-388-4844 Crofton, NE Hope this helps. PJ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pine tar Date: 08 Apr 1998 17:33:43 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BD6314.7A190E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well you can get it from Chas Townsend and son its also called Brewer's Pitch it a natural pine tar pitch good for foodsafe ,and water tight coating of wood or metal containers $5.00 a pound later Jon T ---------- : From: Carlson Wagonlit Travel <travel@turbonet.com> : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Subject: MtMan-List: pine tar : Date: Wednesday, April 08, 1998 2:27 AM : : Here's a question bound to stump all of you. : What exactly is pine tar, and also where can you get it??! : I can't seem to find anyone with any info on it. : : Matt Mitchell : Palouse Hills Muzzleloaders : Moscow, Idaho : travel@turbonet.com ------=_NextPart_000_01BD6314.7A190E00 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">Well you can get it from Chas Townsend = and son its also called Brewer's Pitch it a natural pine tar pitch good = for foodsafe ,and water tight coating of wood or metal containers $5.00 = a pound later Jon T ---------- : From: Carlson Wagonlit = Travel <travel@turbonet.com> : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Subject: MtMan-List: pine tar : Date: = Wednesday, April 08, 1998 2:27 AM : : Here's a question bound to = stump all of you. : What exactly is pine tar, and also where can you = get it??! : I can't seem to find anyone with any info on it. : = : Matt Mitchell : Palouse Hills Muzzleloaders : Moscow, = Idaho : travel@turbonet.com </body></html> ------=_NextPart_000_01BD6314.7A190E00-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Pamela Wheeler" <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BP Info Date: 08 Apr 1998 19:53:43 -0500 Howdy all, That makes two of us in Texas! If any one else in TX./ San Antonio area knows where I can drive to in Texas to buy black powder please let me know. Thanks, YellowFeather Schertz, TX. (210)-658-5336 ---------- > From: Brian Sorensen <sorensen@austin.technow.com> > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: MtMan-List: BP Info > Date: Wednesday, April 08, 1998 3:17 PM > > Greetings to the List > I live in Austin TX and am having an awful time finding real > blackpowder. All the shops seem to blame it on the distributor for this > > area blowing up a while back and it is impossible to get it. My read: > we don't want to carry it--use pyrodex > When I pursue the discussion they all make reference to how crazy and > misguided I am to preferring the original. Needless to say I don't get > very far and they don't get a sale. > Now to my question. It looks like I need to order it myself via the > mail (I guess). I have not done this, and I thought I would check the > wisdom of the list on the best / most cost effective way of doing this. > Are there things I need to worry about? > Thanks in advance for your help as I am down to my last pound. > > Cheers, > Brian ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "The Windhams" <windham@jps.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BP Info Date: 09 Apr 1998 19:01:18 -0700 Brian, been down your road a couple of times, best p lace to get black powder is at rondi or mail order. you can order from several suppliers but it will work best if you can get some friends to place an order with you , and bulk buy. Also check the amount you are allowed to have in your home , some states have max amounts. Here in Calif 5 LBS is the limit Track of the wolf sells BP and ships ups their # is (612) 424-2500 and I don't blame you , why use fake powder , ? when the real thing works so well !! Rick HTTP//:www.ptw.com/~lattanze/home/blackhawk.html ---------- > From: Brian Sorensen <sorensen@austin.technow.com> > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: MtMan-List: BP Info > Date: Wednesday, April 08, 1998 1:17 PM > > Greetings to the List > I live in Austin TX and am having an awful time finding real > blackpowder. All the shops seem to blame it on the distributor for this > > area blowing up a while back and it is impossible to get it. My read: > we don't want to carry it--use pyrodex > When I pursue the discussion they all make reference to how crazy and > misguided I am to preferring the original. Needless to say I don't get > very far and they don't get a sale. > Now to my question. It looks like I need to order it myself via the > mail (I guess). I have not done this, and I thought I would check the > wisdom of the list on the best / most cost effective way of doing this. > Are there things I need to worry about? > Thanks in advance for your help as I am down to my last pound. > > Cheers, > Brian > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pine tar Date: 08 Apr 1998 22:03:18 EDT pine tar is i beleave a dirivitive op pine wood cooked down and renderd out the pine tar ! ive used it for along with [okem another storry] on a horses split hoof. i get mine from a feed store that sells horse care products. ive mixed it with lenseed oil an bee wax to make convas waterproof it smelled terrable for years yes years. iron tounge ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pine tar Date: 08 Apr 1998 22:17:27 EDT it is an ancient remady for lot of things i have used it for two things to pack a horses hoof that had a split in it . ive mixed it with turpintine to treet thrush on a horses hoof. ived mixed it with bees waz and lenseeoil to water proof canvas it smelled bad for years . it is adrivitive of boiled down pine wood witch is taken a step further and made into pine tarr. i get mine from a real good feed store that has horse care products or ferrerer equipment - horse shoer. it was used as a poltice i beleave to sweat out poisin in a snakebite or bullet im glad we have penicillion. the packed it with okium in cracks of boats to seal the bottem water tight . its handy if you know how to use it irontounge ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cynthia Pierce <CPierce@InfoAve.Net> Subject: MtMan-List: Pine tar Date: 08 Apr 1998 21:25:06 -0700 Being from The Tar Heel State I do know a little about this one. Pine trees where tapped and the sap,or pitch, was removed to make a substance that was used to help waterproof ships and many other items (like the knapsacks in the War Between the States,I think) My Mother used to make a poultice (Mom called it a tar plaster) to put on us kids when we had the flu or a real bad cold. You could buy it in a small jar at the drug store. I'll ask her and see if I can find any. I'm no professor but thats what I know. Hope it helps. Rick ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Parks <kc7cnw@magick.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Black Powder Date: 08 Apr 1998 19:44:04 -0700 Hi Brian, I'm afraid you are out of luck ordering Black powder via the mail, they won't ship it to my knowledge. You can order Pyrodex via UPS from suppliers. My advice is to find some local BP shooters either Skinners or Target Shooters and find out their sources for the REAL powder! No self -respecting MM would be caught dead with Pyrodexi in his horn! Waugh! Kidding aside, the sales of "artificial" BP is very strong in demand since all of these modern BP hunting rifles came out, but the main reason that fewer and fewer dealers are carrying the real stuff is because the local city & county restrictions on BP are getting tougher all the time. In most areas a dealer is now required to show proof of a fire-proof safe or some other means to keep the BP locked up at their place of business and they are also limited to the amount they can have on their store premises. Their insurance companies will in some cases, drop them if they carry real BP, it is more dangerous than Pyrodex or other smokeless powders in most cases if their store should burn down. I know of several dealers that have found it un-practical to carry for the little profit made from it. The only way a dealer could make a decent profit from it, was by buying it in quantity. The average dealer can't do that now because of all the new restrictions and city ordinances limiting the amount they can stock in their store. They don't have that problem (as bad) with the other powders. I can remember years ago, when I was a member of "The Burbank Muzzleloaders" Our club ordered 2FF & 3FFF by the keg and we would all bring our empty 1lb. cans to the 126 acre club range and open the underground bunker the club kept the kegs in. We would all gather round the man measuring it out like a herd of thirsty buffalo gathered around a waterhole! Them was the good old days....it ran about $2.00 a pound as I remember. Right now, I think I have about seven pounds of BP and I feel almost naked with so little on hand. Never know when the "Bugs Boys" might turn up. This coon feels like cach'en. Regards, _M_ Manywounds W ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JFLEMYTH <JFLEMYTH@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BP still rules. Date: 09 Apr 1998 07:46:52 EDT If any person hastles you about using the real McCoy in your front stuffer, point out that real black powder ignites around 320 degrees and Pyrodex, (ugh!), ignites around 600 degrees. You can get a faster and better ignition with the real stuff. I think Goex will still ship but you have to pay hazmat fees. I have found Goex at a couple of small gun shops around here. (Of course, I live two miles out of a big city.) I would just get on the phone to some obscure places if you haven't. You never know. You might get lucky! John Fleming. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Achgegetum <Achgegetum@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pine tar Date: 09 Apr 1998 07:41:46 EDT The question was what is pine tar and where can I get some? Don't know what it is, but it seems to be used for an antiseptic, lubricant, and waterproofing compound for rope & twine. It Is available from: Cumberland General Store, #1 Highway 68, Crossville, TN 38555. 1-800-334-4640. Last years catalog lists 1 pint (#0727) for $7.30. Hope this helps. Rex Cole, Achgegetum@aol.com Westmont, IL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Allen" <allen@blueridge-ef.SAIC.COM> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BP Info Date: 09 Apr 1998 07:59:36 -0500 Brian, I ordered 25 lbs from Evenson Explosives (address in any muzzleloading type magazine. I don't have it here at work). It was no hassle at all. I just called them and told them what I wanted. They said "just send us a check" and I got it about 5 days later thru UPS. For my area the total charge was $175. That is 25 lbs of powder, hazmat fee and shipping. If you can get a few friends who also need powder it's a great way to do it. The price works out to about $7 a pound, which is better than I can get anywhere locally. Good luck. Your most humble servant, Scott Allen Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick Fairplay, MD http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BP Info Date: 09 Apr 1998 08:33:59 -0600 (CST) >Greetings to the List > I live in Austin TX and am having an awful time finding real >blackpowder. All the shops seem to blame it on the distributor for this > I have no trouble getting it here in Lubbock. Fred's Gun Emporium here sells it in all grain sizes. No problem. When you come up, we can go out to Rustic Range and blow a few pounds. :-) Cheers, HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! ******* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pine tar Date: 09 Apr 1998 08:43:53 -0600 (CST) >Carlson Wagonlit Travel wrote: >> >> What exactly is pine tar, and also where can you get it??! >> I can't seem to find anyone with any info on it. > >Pine Tar is an old time remedy for doctoring horses feet. I used pine >tar in hoof dressing and also when shoeing a horse with a leather pad >under the shoe. Beneath the pad it is packed with pine tar and oakum. >I bought pine tar in them there days -- which was probably close to >thirty years ago -- at the local feed store, or where ever I purchased >my horseshoeing supplies. Pine tar is actually resin from pine trees >that has been distilled somehow. > Dale Nelson dnelson@wizzards.net Foxfire #4 (pp. 252-256) has a chapter on how to make pine tar. HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! ******* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mike Katona" <mkatona@pdx.oneworld.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BP Info Date: 09 Apr 1998 06:40:07 +0000 Check the black powder manufactures home page and they will lead you to major wholesalers around the country. I know there is one in Carlsbad, (I believe) NM. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mtmannh@juno.com (charles l chalk) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BP Info Date: 09 Apr 1998 08:56:49 -0400 Black Powder is shippable by UPS straight to your door. Dealers usually deal in 25 # qualifies, in 1# cans. They mix loads, which is good , because if you shoot flint, you can get 4or5 fg, which is nearly impossible to get at a store. You will pay shipping and a hazardous materials charge, which may be offset by the savings per pound. Get a few shooters together and split the cost. As for storage, unless preempted by local laws, Fire Code allows you to store 20# in a residence, in a wooden box with 1" thick walls( for an explosion, the wood doesn't become shrapnel ). Your local FD can show you the rules in a document called NFPA 495. Oh, by the way, all cartons of powder will come with a label that says "Flammable Solid ", not "Explosive" . If you are concerned about ignition of stored powder, it is safer than gasoline or propane, which leak vapors that can find an ignition source. Just take reasonable care with spilled powder. Charles Chalk Merrimack, N.H. 03054 On Wed, 08 Apr 1998 15:17:18 -0500 Brian Sorensen <sorensen@austin.technow.com> writes: >Greetings to the List > I live in Austin TX and am having an awful time finding real >blackpowder. All the shops seem to blame it on the distributor for >this > >area blowing up a while back and it is impossible to get it. My read: >we don't want to carry it--use pyrodex _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Singer" <ssinger@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pine tar Date: 10 Apr 1998 08:01:53 -0600 >>Here's a question bound to stump all of you. >>What exactly is pine tar, and also where can you get it??! >>I can't seem to find anyone with any info on it. >> >>Matt Mitchell >>Palouse Hills Muzzleloaders >>Moscow, Idaho I can get small cans of it in the hardware store here in Colorado. Since you are in Idaho, also check with stores that sell cross country skis - pine tar is used to waterproof the bases of old wooden cross country skis so they don't absorb moisture, crack, and ice up. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JohnDies <JohnDies@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trade axes and tomahawks Date: 09 Apr 1998 16:33:26 EDT I hope you reference Carl P. Russell's book, Firearms, Traps, & Tools of the Mountain Men, 1967, Alfred Knopf. University of New Mexico did a seventh printing in 1988. Great book, but it is time to give the whole field a relook. A lot of new stuff has surfaced since 1967. Has anyone heard of John Barsotti and his collection? Russell mentions him a lot but I haven't seen any other reference. john diestler lafayette, ca johndies@aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "P.D. Amschler" <buckskinner@mailcity.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Jeremiah Johnson Date: 09 Apr 1998 21:43:22 -0700 Movie question? Does anyone have a copy or know where I can get a copy of the old Redford movie "Jeremiah Johnson"? Paul (The Buckskinner Bear) Get your FREE, private e-mail account at http://www.mailcity.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gail Carbiener" <carbg@cmc.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Beaver... Date: 10 Apr 1998 07:36:04 -0700 I have a need for a beaver skin to be used as a prop. Can they be purchased? If so where? Sure enjoy reading you "Professional" guys on this list. Better than any damn book your can buy! Gail ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Frank <MedicineBear@Hawken54.sparks.nv.us> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver... Date: 10 Apr 1998 10:42:28 -0700 Gail, I don't know if this is the best or cheapest source but I did see some plews at Tandy Leather. Not just beaver but others. Hope this helps. Medicine Bear Gail Carbiener wrote: > I have a need for a beaver skin to be used as a prop. Can they be purchased? > If so where? > > Sure enjoy reading you "Professional" guys on this list. Better than any > damn book your can buy! > > Gail ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Les Chaffin <chaflesl@isu.edu> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver... Date: 10 Apr 1998 12:40:53 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------40C2A388954DD38429AFA3E1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gail, Try Moscow Hide & Fur, They have all types of fur and they have a web site at http://www.hideandfur.com/ Hope this helps? Les Frank wrote: > > Gail, > > I don't know if this is the best or cheapest source but I did see some plews at > Tandy Leather. Not just beaver but others. Hope this helps. > > Medicine Bear > > Gail Carbiener wrote: > > > I have a need for a beaver skin to be used as a prop. Can they be purchased? > > If so where? > > > > Sure enjoy reading you "Professional" guys on this list. Better than any > > damn book your can buy! > > > > Gail --------------40C2A388954DD38429AFA3E1 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Les Chaffin Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Les Chaffin n: Chaffin ;Les org: Twin Falls Computer Center Mgr. adr;dom: 34 Barton Lane;;;Twin Falls;Idaho;83301; email;internet: chaflesl@isu.edu title: Idaho State University tel;work: 208-736-2119 tel;fax: 208-236-4836 tel;home: 208-736-6002 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: TRUE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------40C2A388954DD38429AFA3E1-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Parks <kc7cnw@magick.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Redford movie, J.J. Date: 10 Apr 1998 10:58:03 -0700 P.D. Amschler wrote: > > Movie question? > > Does anyone have a copy or know where I can get a copy of the old Redford movie "Jeremiah Johnson"? I have found that this movie comes up on T.V. every now and then and you can tape it. That is how I got my copy, along with the Charlton Heston/Brian Keith movie "Mountain Men". They are both good entertainment movies. Movie subjects seem to go in cycles, and I think it's about time for another good "Mountain Man" movie to come along. I would also like to see a good quality documentary done on the fur trade era starting back in the 1600's with the Hudson Bay Company in Canada, the Northwest Company, Manual Lisa's first fort on to the end of the main beaver trade in the U.S. I think someone like Ken Burns would be the obvious choice for a project like this. I also feel it has crossed his mind a time or two. To do it right, it would take about five two hour episodes though. I'm sure we would all like to see a correct documentary done on this subject. There are a lot of historians that frequent this list who could offer material for a project of this magnatude. How 'bout it Dean? I would also like to see a fur trade movie made with a good storyline and attention to detail like that of Kevin Coster's "Dances with Wolves". Everytime I watch his movie, I see something new that I didn't spot before. His attention to detail was refreshing to see. A far cry from the days of "painted-up" white men playing as indians, etc. It showed that it is possible to include proper details (like speaking sioux, with subtitles and showing what it was really like "running buffalo". Too many movies seem to rush through a storyline to save production time. Dances with Wolves was a fresh break from the standard Hollywood garbage. Regards, _M_ Manywounds W ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Parks <kc7cnw@magick.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Beaver Hides Date: 10 Apr 1998 11:05:01 -0700 Gail Carbiener wrote: > > I have a need for a beaver skin to be used as a prop. Can they be purchased? > If so where? > Moscow Hide & Fur Moscow, Idaho (208) 882-0601 http:www.hideandfur.com medium/large tanned hide: about $50.00 Regards, _M_ Manywounds W ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kirk L. Davis" <kirk.davis@m.cc.utah.edu> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver... Date: 10 Apr 1998 13:11:13 -0600 At 07:36 AM 4/10/1998 -0700, Gail wrote: >I have a need for a beaver skin to be used as a prop. Can they be purchased? >If so where? > Moscow Hide and Fur in Moscow Idaho has them for sale, their web page is at: http://www.hideandfur.com/ Also any large rendezvous will have traders selling beaver plews. "Squint" Kirk L. Davis Salt Lake City, UT kirk.davis@m.cc.utah.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Flying Cloud <flyingcd@rosenet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver... Date: 10 Apr 1998 12:47:35 -0700 Gail Carbiener wrote: > > I have a need for a beaver skin to be used as a prop. Can they be purchased? > If so where? > > Sure enjoy reading you "Professional" guys on this list. Better than any > damn book your can buy! > > Gail Hi Gail Give Sheri Woods a call at, Woods' Fur Shack, the phone number is 541-592-2968 tell her Jim at Flying Cloud said Hi. -- Jim Ellison, http://www.rosenet.net/~flyingcd ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Traphand <Traphand@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Redford movie, J.J. Date: 10 Apr 1998 22:02:21 EDT what about centennial by james michner you left that one out ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MIA3WOLVES <MIA3WOLVES@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pine tar Date: 10 Apr 1998 16:29:37 EDT I'm not sure what pine tar is made from but I do remember my Grandpa giving it to the horses when they had a cough. It was poured down their throats. Whether he got it from the Pharmacy or from the feed store I' m not sure. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn Darilek <llsi@texas.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Dances With Wolves Date: 10 Apr 1998 16:49:44 -0500 Dave Parks wrote: > . . . I would also like to see a fur trade movie > made with a good storyline and attention to detail like that of Kevin > Coster's "Dances with Wolves". > Everytime I watch his movie, I see something new that I didn't > spot before. His attention to detail was refreshing to see. A far cry > from the days of "painted-up" white men playing as indians, etc. It > showed that it is possible to include proper details (like speaking > sioux, with subtitles and showing what it was really like "running > buffalo". Too many movies seem to rush through a storyline to save > production time. Dances with Wolves was a fresh break from the standard > Hollywood garbage. For what it's worth (absolutely nothing), I agree. Just the buffalo hunt is worth the price of admission. But in at least one instance, I don't know why they thought they had to compromise authenticity for a "better" story line. For example, the boy who was injured while trying to steal Dances With Wolves horse, said he was afraid that his father would beat him when he found out. From what I have read, this is not the way the Lakota treated their offspring, particularly boys. Iron Burner ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LODGEPOLE <LODGEPOLE@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dances With Wolves Date: 12 Apr 1998 01:44:59 EDT In a message dated 98-04-11 12:38:45 EDT, Iron Burner wrote: << For what it's worth (absolutely nothing), I agree. Just the buffalo hunt is worth the price of admission. But in at least one instance, I don't know why they thought they had to compromise authenticity for a "better" story line. For example, the boy who was injured while trying to steal Dances With Wolves horse, said he was afraid that his father would beat him when he found out. From what I have read, this is not the way the Lakota treated their offspring, particularly boys. >> Well, I am no expert on these things. It may have been an "Authors Mistake" in the book or something that was overlooked when the movie was made and the Indian Tribe was changed to Lakota from the original tribe in the book. I am not sure what the tribe was as I never did get around to reading it. But the tribe was changed to Lakota for the movie as there aren't many members of the tribe in the book around today and there were plenty of Lakota to be found to make the movie. At any rate that was the story told on one of those "making of the Movie" shows I saw on the tube. Longshot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: VinStevens <VinStevens@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver... Date: 11 Apr 1998 19:04:02 EDT Gail, Try to find a copy of Fish and Fur magazine, I can usualy find it in the magazine racks of the local grocery store, they list lots of places to purchase furs. Here in Montana, Pacific Recycling sells plews for around $30 (I think...I haven't checked in a while). If you can't find a source locally drop me a line off list and I'll see what I can do for you. Vince vinstevens@aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Terry Venden <tvenden@etex.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jeremiah Johnson Date: 11 Apr 1998 16:37:38 -0500 --------------8D2C9C1C9814763D4C3A8ED9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit P.D. Amschler wrote: > Movie question? > > Does anyone have a copy or know where I can get a copy of the > old Redford movie > "Jeremiah Johnson"? > > Paul (The Buckskinner Bear) > > Get your FREE, private e-mail > account at http://www.mailcity.com You can find Jeremiah Johnson at any place that sell old movies, like WalMart, Best Buy, and maybe Target. I just purchased Jeremiah in DVD format. So I know it is still out there. As the other gentleman stated it also comes on cable every so often or you could rent it if you have a way to retape it. Just look and you'll find it. Sure enjoy reading all the post from everyone. I learn something every day. Thanks. Mato Wakan ( Medicine Bear) Terry --------------8D2C9C1C9814763D4C3A8ED9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML> P.D. Amschler wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> Movie question? Does anyone have a copy or know where I can get a copy of the old Redford movie "Jeremiah Johnson"? Paul (The Buckskinner Bear) Get your FREE, private e-mail account at <A HREF="http://www.mailcity.com">http://www.mailcity.com</A></BLOCKQUOTE> <HR WIDTH="100%"> You can find Jeremiah Johnson at any place that sell old movies, like WalMart, Best Buy, and maybe Target. I just purchased Jeremiah in DVD format. So I know it is still out there. As the other gentleman stated it also comes on cable every so often or you could rent it if you have a way to retape it. Just look and you'll find it. Sure enjoy reading all the post from everyone. I learn something every day. Thanks. Mato Wakan ( Medicine Bear) Terry</HTML> --------------8D2C9C1C9814763D4C3A8ED9-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Traphand <Traphand@aol.com> Subject: MtMan-List: powder horn repair Date: 11 Apr 1998 21:59:12 EDT got three very old horns at a sell last weekend. the horns are flaking and starting to creak.what has anyone tried that worked.thanks traphand ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Women's hoods Date: 11 Apr 1998 12:07:31 -0600 Angela, Let me make sure I've gotten your meaning correctly by restating what I believe you said in in my own words. My words: Indian women decorated efigy hoods profusely so that the hoods didn't look so goofy. Is that your meaning? Second question; how far may we extend this logic to other things women decorated profusely? It seems to be an interesting concept worth further exploration. D.T. -----Original Message----- >I promised to discuss the woman's version of the effigy hoods folks were >discussing earlier. It is the rectangular Canadian Native woman's hood. Here >are a couple of descriptions : >"The cap, when they have one, consists of a piece of cloth, about two feet >square, doubled, and sewed up at one end, which forms an enclosure for the >head; and it is tied under the chin. The bottom of it falls down the back, >like a cape, and in the centre, is tied to the belt. This cap is fancifully >garnished with ribbon, beads or porcupine quills." 1820, Daniel Williams >Harmon (W. Kaye Lamb, ed. _Sixteen Years in the Indian Country_, 203) >"For a head dress they [Cree women] have a foot of broad cloth sewed at one >end, ornamented with beads and gartering, this end is on the head, the loose >parts are over the shoulders, and is well adapted to defend the head and >neck from the cold and snow." David Thompson (Richard Glover, ed. _David >Thompson's Narrative : 1784-1812_, p. 74) > >Why is it so important to decorate these hoods profusely? Because >otherwise they are SO GOOFY! The peak is often decorated with a tassel, just >to heighten the effect, which looks like you've tried (unsuccessfully) to >stuff your head into an envelope. So decorations are crucial to distracting >people from this effect. > >Your humble & obedient servant, >Angela Gottfred >agottfre@telusplanet.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ron" <cstmzd@ida.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Hats Date: 12 Apr 1998 12:07:50 -0600 In Townsends journal, he lists a hat purchased that was "white wool hats-with round crown, fitting tightly to the head, with brims 5" wide & almost hard enough to resist a rifle ball." Would this hat have a brim all around the crown?...or just to the front? Thanks, Ron Email <cstmzd@ida.net> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dances With Wolves Date: 12 Apr 1998 14:13:17 -1000 LODGEPOLE wrote: > In a message dated 98-04-11 12:38:45 EDT, Iron Burner wrote: > > << For what it's worth (absolutely nothing), I agree. Just the > buffalo > hunt is worth the price of admission. But in at least one instance, > I > don't know why they thought they had to compromise authenticity for a > > "better" story line. For example, the boy who was injured while > trying > to steal Dances With Wolves horse, said he was afraid that his father > > would beat him when he found out. From what I have read, this is not > > the way the Lakota treated their offspring, particularly boys. >> > > Well, I am no expert on these things. It may have been an "Authors > Mistake" > in the book or something that was overlooked when the movie was made > and the > Indian Tribe was changed to Lakota from the original tribe in the > book. I am > not sure what the tribe was as I never did get around to reading it. > But the > tribe was changed to Lakota for the movie as there aren't many members > of the > tribe in the book around today and there were plenty of Lakota to be > found to > make the movie. At any rate that was the story told on one of those > "making > of the Movie" shows I saw on the tube. > > Longshot The original tribe in the book, "Dances With Wolves" was the Comanches. I personally think that they were changed to Lakota in the movie for two reasons. #1--Lakota are considered "cool" in the hippy-dippy New Age world, and #2--the Lakota are prettier than the Comanche. I mean no offense to either tribe by that statement; it's the same mindset that considers black women to be beautiful if they look more white than black. In other words, they look like *we* would like to look; the Lakota tend to be taller and leaner than the Comanches and have that "Plains Indian" hawk profile. The Comanches are short and rather chunky in body build and look more like the Apache. There are many historical statements referring to the fact that the Comanches were seen as "short and squat" until they sat a horse, whereupon they turned into graceful centaurs who looked like they had grown out of the horse and could do anything while riding. There isn't all that much written on the Comanches. I would recommend to you "The Comanches: Lords of the South Plains" by E. Wallace and E. Hoebel. Amazon.com has it in paperback at a reasonable price. They are a fascinating people, and one of the very last tribes to be starved out by the US Army. Read up on Quanah Parker sometime; there was a man. His father was Comanche and his mother a white captive name of Cynthia Ann Parker. As Quanah was half-white, the whites seemed to feel he was easier to deal with than all them Inyuns. What he was was intelligent and a real statesman, deeply concerned with his people. I grew up on part of the Comancheria in Texas and learned these tales at my mama's knee. Literally. My mama always had a soft spot for Cynthia Ann Parker. Thanks for listening. I'll cut it off here before I really get going. Mind yer topknot, Blue ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Parks <kc7cnw@wizzards.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: 5" brim Hats Date: 12 Apr 1998 21:41:23 -0700 Ron wrote: > > In Townsends journal, he lists a hat purchased that was "white wool > hats-with round crown, fitting tightly to the head, with brims 5" wide & > almost hard enough to resist a rifle ball." > > Would this hat have a brim all around the crown?...or just to the front? Hi Ron, Yes, the 5" brim would run all the way around the crown, if it was just in the front.....it would look like a baseball cap. Take a look through some of the prints by various period artists here on Deans web-site and you can see what they looked like. Regards, _M_ Manywounds W ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CT OAKES <CTOAKES@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pine tar Date: 13 Apr 1998 08:55:48 EDT In a message dated 98-04-09 22:40:25 EDT, you write: << >>What exactly is pine tar, and also where can you get it??! >>I can't seem to find anyone with any info on it. >> >>Matt Mitchell >>Palouse Hills Muzzleloaders >>Moscow, Idaho >> Check any farm feed store, Pine Tar is available in small tins. It is a common first aid for chickens that are getting pecked by other chickens. It is also available at places that sell trees and shrubs as it is good for sealing off a branch after pruning. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Lindberg <jal@cray.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jeremiah Johnson Date: 13 Apr 1998 07:57:41 -0500 First off, I have no ties with the company, never ordered from them, etc. Goto http://movie.reel.com/moviepage/647.html Shows Jeremiah Johnson can be had for: New Used Laserdisc DVD Widescreen --- ---- --------- --- ---------- $12.74 $6.99 $29.73 $17.49 $16.98 Hope this helps, Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net> Subject: MtMan-List: South Eastern Rendezvous Date: 13 Apr 1998 10:52:21 -0400 For those of you who have time......Do we..... This camp out just started and is having GREAT weather and is in a GREAT place to camp. Come on out for the last weekend 4/14 to 4/19. I just left the "Mouse House" and they are having toooooo good of a time. Mom won't let me come out and play this week so I just got to visit for the day. Will try to sneak out for another day this weekend. Linda Holley ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Carpenter Family <kcarpenter@bigbear.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jeremiah Johnson Date: 13 Apr 1998 08:03:34 +0000 Jim Lindberg wrote: > > Goto http://movie.reel.com/moviepage/647.html > > Shows Jeremiah Johnson can be had for: > > New Used Laserdisc DVD Widescreen > --- ---- --------- --- ---------- > $12.74 $6.99 $29.73 $17.49 $16.98 > > Jeremiah Johnson can also be obtained from Critic's Choice Video, for $10.77, at 800-367-7765. I just recieved their catalog in the mail. Why did the movie makers feel the need to change John Johnston's name to Jeremiah Johnson? Ken C ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" <lahtirog@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pine tar Date: 13 Apr 1998 11:13:58 -0700 I got some Pine Tar from England Marine Supply in Astoria OR. last summer to use on the rigging of my 19' battaeu., but I'm sure it is available at the other sources mentioned in previous notes. If you want the phone number or address of England Marine feel free to get back to me. ---------- > From: CT OAKES <CTOAKES@aol.com> > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pine tar > Date: Monday, April 13, 1998 5:55 AM > > In a message dated 98-04-09 22:40:25 EDT, you write: > > << >>What exactly is pine tar, and also where can you get it??! > >>I can't seem to find anyone with any info on it. > >> > >>Matt Mitchell > >>Palouse Hills Muzzleloaders > >>Moscow, Idaho >> > > Check any farm feed store, Pine Tar is available in small tins. It is a > common first aid for chickens that are getting pecked by other chickens. It > is also available at places that sell trees and shrubs as it is good for > sealing off a branch after pruning. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Women's hoods Date: 13 Apr 1998 13:50:54 -0600 "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com> wrote: >Let me make sure I've gotten your meaning correctly by restating what I >believe you said in in my own words. >My words: Indian women decorated efigy hoods profusely so that the hoods >didn't look so goofy. Is that your meaning? Well, I'm not sure it was an entirely serious hypothesis! I have an undecorated hood and it looks very ugly to me. I won't be wearing it in public until I've got some decoration on it, so it doesn't look quite so goofy. However, the perspective of fur trade-era Native women may have been quite different. Just to keep things straight, these aren't 'effigy hoods' (the ones with the ears) but are rectangular hoods. >Second question; how far may we extend this logic to other things women >decorated profusely? I don't know! It is something to keep in mind though. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: MtMan-List: Re: 5" brim Hats, and Why I Hate Sketchbooks. Date: 13 Apr 1998 13:51:08 -0600 Dave "Manywounds" Parks <kc7cnw@wizzards.net> wrote: >Hi Ron, Yes, the 5" brim would run all the way around the crown, if >it was just in the front.....it would look like a baseball cap. Baseball-style caps did exist in the fur trade. They were (and are) called 'jockey caps'. David Thompson took 6 jockey caps over the Athabasca Pass in 1810-1811 (Belyea, 255-257). In 1820, the HBC's George Simpson ordered over 50 jockey caps for the Athabasca outfit of 1821-1822. In the _Voyageur's Sketchbook_, there is a sketch on around page 4 of a jockey cap decorated by marabou feathers. The original of this sketch is attributed to "Meyer". --Rant alert!-- I HATE SKETCHBOOKS! They drive me N-U-T-S! I don't know of any artist called "Meyer" who drew or painted voyageurs, and there is no other indication in the sketchbook of the name of the painting, the full name of the artist, or where this particular painting or drawing might be found. The same goes for almost everything else in this sketchbook, and this is typical of sketchbooks aimed at reenactors--lots of pretty pictures and very definite statements, but very rarely is there anything to back up the claims or explain where to find the original source. Yet the information often comes from people who are, presumably, knowledgeable in the subject area... It makes me want to take the author/artist and shake them... --End of rant.-- I'd love to know more about jockey caps. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sommer J. Smouse" <smouse@ubtanet.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: South Eastern Rendezvous Date: 13 Feb 1998 13:15:11 -0700 Linda Holley wrote: > I just > left the "Mouse House" and they are having toooooo good of a time. What is the "Mouse House"? Sounds like a term my family uses for my folks place. Forrest Smouse ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: South Eastern Rendezvous Date: 13 Apr 1998 19:33:49 -0400 The "mouse House" is one of our subscribers wife's tent. It is the sign they hang out side to let us know who they are. Linda Holley ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com (Michael Pierce) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: powder horn repair(is there any worm holes ) Date: 13 Apr 1998 19:46:27 -0400 sent you a message offline on plugging and carving horns. now i dont know if i did the right thing or not. is your question i have some original powder horns and they need repairing or i have some old horns and want to make powder horns out of them.. I can give you input on repairing old horns if that is the question. One thing that i need to know are there any worm holes in the horns. a lot of very old horns have worm holes for some reason. cracks in old horns indicate that they are drying out and need some moisture (IE oil or the like.) "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(813) 771-1815 On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 21:59:12 EDT Traphand <Traphand@aol.com> writes: >got three very old horns at a sell last weekend. the horns are flaking >and >starting to creak.what has anyone tried that worked.thanks > > traphand > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dances With Wolves Date: 13 Apr 1998 20:24:57 -0600 (CST) >For what it's worth (absolutely nothing), I agree. Just the buffalo >hunt is worth the price of admission. But in at least one instance, I >don't know why they thought they had to compromise authenticity for a >"better" story line. For example, the boy who was injured while trying >to steal Dances With Wolves horse, said he was afraid that his father >would beat him when he found out. From what I have read, this is not >the way the Lakota treated their offspring, particularly boys. We must remember that in dealing with cultures, we are really talking about individuals, who may or may not have followed cultural custom to the letter. The boy may very well have reason to fear his "father's bow across his back." Some confusion about the Indian side of the film could come from the fact that the screen writer chose to deviate from the book and depict the Lakota, instead of the Comanche. In the book, the tribe is Comanche. Kicking Bird was a Kiowa and Ten Bears was Comanche, and the setting was somewhere on the southern plains. Fort Segwick (Julesburg, Co.) in the movie was actually a post in SW Kansas or the Indian Territory in the book, but I can't remember its name. The language in the film is Lakota, but the situations are pretty much Southern Plains. For instance, Ten Bears talks about the Spanish coming, and shows Dunbar the helmet of a Conquistador. Sorry folks, but the Spanish didn't get far into Sioux territory. It's more likely that it's a souvenir found on the plains of Texas, SW Kansas or Oklahoma. The buffalo hunt scene was well done EXCEPT Dunbar's weapon of choice. Why in the heck he used a Henry when he had all those Sharps carbines on hand is beyond me. He should have kept a few out and buried the rest. It's hard enough to hit a buff in his tender spot behind the ear or into its heart on a dead run, but to do so with a small caliber (.44 Henry is small to a buffalo) rifle is near impossible. A .52 Sharps might have been a better choice. Oh, well. The Director's Cut answers a lot of questions and explains much more than the released version does. It is still a great film, which, since its release in 1990, has inspired a whole new crop of historical dramas. Cheers, HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! ******* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: MtMan-List: Memorial Day weekend events Date: 13 Apr 1998 20:30:49 -0600 (CST) Guess what. The wife and kids are taking off during Mem. Day weekend to visit her parents, which leaves me all that time to play. I know someone out there has the whats and wheres of rendezvous and reenactments going on that weekend that I could choose from. It's a once in a lifetime opportunity, and I don't want to blow it. WAUGH!!! Any Suggestions/Invitations? Does Ft. Larned still do an event? Let me know. Cheers, HBC, aka Hears-The-Quiet ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! ******* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: EmmaPeel2 <EmmaPeel2@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Memorial Day weekend events Date: 13 Apr 1998 23:31:55 EDT Anything going on it the Southwest? Like..New Mexico or Colorado? Went to an event last week, was supposed to be from 8-5. We arrived at 2, no one was there. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas <pdkeas@market1.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dances With Wolves. Date: 13 Apr 1998 19:33:15 +0000 DWW is darn good entertainment. Got a few small things that are wrong (Pheasant feathers on the Pawnee), but I think the original story was based on the Comanche. Fun to watch tho. Don Keas LODGEPOLE wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-11 12:38:45 EDT, Iron Burner wrote: > ><< For what it's worth (absolutely nothing), I agree. Just the buffalo > hunt is worth the price of admission. But in at least one instance, I > don't know why they thought they had to compromise authenticity for a > "better" story line. For example, the boy who was injured while trying > to steal Dances With Wolves horse, said he was afraid that his father > would beat him when he found out. From what I have read, this is not > the way the Lakota treated their offspring, particularly boys. >> > > Well, I am no expert on these things. It may have been an "Authors Mistake" >in the book or something that was overlooked when the movie was made and the >Indian Tribe was changed to Lakota from the original tribe in the book. I am >not sure what the tribe was as I never did get around to reading it. But the >tribe was changed to Lakota for the movie as there aren't many members of the >tribe in the book around today and there were plenty of Lakota to be found to >make the movie. At any rate that was the story told on one of those "making >of the Movie" shows I saw on the tube. > > Longshot > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > >Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com > (SMTPD32-4.03) id AFA115230148; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:45:21 MST >Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0yOPf0-0005GU-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:31:14 -0600 >Received: from (xmission.xmission.com) [198.60.22.2] (drudy) > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0yOPey-0005GI-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:31:12 -0600 >Received: (from drudy@localhost) by xmission.xmission.com (8.8.8/8.7.5) id >KAA26358 for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:31:07 -0600 (MDT) >Received: from (imo15.mx.aol.com) [198.81.17.37] > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0yOFaq-0006d1-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 23:46:16 -0600 >Received: from LODGEPOLE@aol.com > by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id ICJMa02806 > for <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:44:59 -0500 (EDT) >From: LODGEPOLE <LODGEPOLE@aol.com> >Message-ID: <8134ec63.353054dd@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:44:59 EDT >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dances With Wolves >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 62 >Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >X-UIDL: 891662856 >Status: U > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bob----debie <bob@plan-et.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Memorial Day weekend events Date: 14 Apr 1998 08:50:52 -0600 EmmaPeel2 wrote: > > Anything going on it the Southwest? Like..New Mexico or Colorado? Went to an > event last week, was supposed to be from 8-5. We arrived at 2, no one was > there. Moon of Crow. Apr. 17-19. North of Silver City. N.M. Hands @ 505-535-4316 Powder Horn Clan. North of Flagstaff, AZ. 23-26. Winterheart @ 520-772-1566 May 1-3 NMLRA Nationals. Roy, Utah. Glenn @ 801-776-2009 May 15-17 Gloretta, N.M. May 23-25 CSMLA shoot, Florence, Co. Joy @ 719-598-5715 29-31 Taos Free Trappers. N.M. Grey Wolf @ 505-753-8440 July NRA Santa Fe. raton. N.M. Melvin @ 505-445-9637 Wolf Creek Pagosa Springs, Co. Bob @ 303-264-5154 Need to confirm this one. Bob G ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Schnebel <DEERSKIN@superior.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Uses of deerhair today Date: 14 Apr 1998 11:37:07 -0400 Until WWII, deerhair was commonly found in life-preservers. With the use of Kapok, deerhair was discontinued for that purpose. Deerhair is now used for 1- Hockey players pads, 2- Amish farmers horse collars, and 3- fishing flies. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nospammkatona@pdx.oneworld.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Memorial Day weekend events Date: 14 Apr 1998 08:49:21 +0000 let's hear it for Moon of the Crow...........waugh! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cwebbbpdr@juno.com (Charlie P. Webb) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Memorial Day weekend events Date: 14 Apr 1998 09:43:01 -0600 Howdy, The Colorado Springs Muzzle Loaders Inc. will be hosting our 24th Annual Memorial Day Shoot and Rendezvous May 23, 24, 25, 1998 at the Florence Mountain Park just a few miles South of Florence, Colorado. Our event is the largest muzzle loading shoot in Colorado, actually more of a shoot then a rendezvous, but we do have primitive camping, modern tin tipi's camp, a primitive range, hunters walk, (not a survival walk) as well as the NMLRA paper target range. We have a shotgun range, will have Mtn. Man Run, Mtn. Mama Run, kids games, hawk and knife range, primitive attire judging, and much more good times. If you are interested and need more information, contact me off list with your snail mail address and I will send you all the information we have. I guarantee if you show up on the proper dates, we'll be there to greet ya! We encourage folks to dress pre 1840, but no one will be turned away because of "T"shirts and ball caps. We are not an re-enactment event, just a bunch of folks putting on a fun thing for patched round ball muzzle loaders. Respectfully, C Webb CC CO. On Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:31:55 EDT EmmaPeel2 <EmmaPeel2@aol.com> writes: >Anything going on it the Southwest? Like..New Mexico or Colorado? >Went to an >event last week, was supposed to be from 8-5. We arrived at 2, no one >was >there. > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tedhart@juno.com (Ted A Hart) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dances With Wolves Date: 14 Apr 1998 23:38:49 EDT The tribe that was mentioned in the book are Comanches or Kiowas but I think it's Comanche. They are still around but not romanticaized like the Lakotas are. Comanches basically are more war like than the Lakotas in some ways. The frontier didn't advance in Texas while the Comanches and Kiowas lived and ruled the land but after they were relocated to the reservations the frontier advanced very fast and rapidly. Now days Comanches and Kiowas are mostly mixed bloods....not easy to find any fullbloods anymore. I heard from one Kiowa at a powwow that fullbloods of all the nations of North America would fit into a full sized plane (457 or something like that). The biggest Indian nation with the biggest group of mixed bloods are the Tsalagi (Cherokees) because they allow anyone who can vertify that a family member in their lineage was a Cherokee to be a member of their nation. Ted _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marlis Simms <trreport@roadrunner.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Memorial Day weekend events Date: 14 Apr 1998 22:02:36 -0700 At 08:50 AM 4/14/98 -0600, you wrote: >EmmaPeel2 wrote: >> >> Anything going on it the Southwest? Like..New Mexico or Colorado? Went to an >> event last week, was supposed to be from 8-5. We arrived at 2, no one was >> there. > > >Moon of Crow. Apr. 17-19. North of Silver City. N.M. >Hands @ 505-535-4316(Great Rendezvous, have been down there for the past three years). > >Powder Horn Clan. North of Flagstaff, AZ. 23-26. Winterheart @ >520-772-1566 > >May 1-3 NMLRA Nationals. Roy, Utah. Glenn @ 801-776-2009(I'm not sure about this one, is this the NMLRA Pacific Rendezvous to be held in St. George, Utah and for just three days????) > >May 15-17 Gloretta, N.M.(We live in Glorieta, we are not familiar with this rendezvous, could you be talking about the Civil War re-enactment of the Battle of Glorieta? This is held at Rancho de las Golondrinas, 12 miles south of Santa Fe) > >May 23-25 CSMLA shoot, Florence, Co. Joy @ 719-598-5715 > >29-31 Taos Free Trappers. N.M. Grey Wolf @ 505-753-8440 (We have heard unfavorable comments concerning this rendezvous.) > >July >NRA Santa Fe. raton. N.M. Melvin @ 505-445-9637(The Santa Fe Trails Rendezvous is the second week of June, not July.) You might contact the NRA Whittington Center in Raton for more information and contact persons on this one, or contact David LeMond @ (505) 281-4881 >Wolf Creek Pagosa Springs, Co. Bob @ 303-264-5154 Need to confirm >this one.(Not sure about this one, went a couple of years ago, quite a nice place. Can't say who is in charge, but if you call the Pagosa Springs Chamber of Commerce they should have all the information. There is a new one coming up the end of July (31st) to August 9 in beautiful Chama, New Mexico. It is a tradefair, sponsored by the hotels in Chama and the Cumbres Toltec Railroad. Big Horn Tent City, contact 719-587-9077. Will be setting up at the railraod site in Chama. Check Smoke & Fire News for more information on places, dates and times of all kinds of events. >Marlis > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Allen" <allen@blueridge-ef.SAIC.COM> Subject: MtMan-List: Needs a Ride to Market Fair Date: 15 Apr 1998 06:21:41 -0500 Hello the list(s) A good friend of mine is in dire need of a ride (share driving duties and expenses) from the Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota are to the Fort Frederick Market Fair next week. The fellas he originally was coming with backed out at the last minute. He could drive a little to meet you if neccessary. I know it's a longshot, but if anyone is coming this way and have room, he sure could use the help. Contact me via email or Jim Newman at newma030@tc.umn.edu, phone 612-546-6994. Thanks much. Your most humble servant, Scott Allen Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick Fairplay, MD http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: EmmaPeel2 <EmmaPeel2@aol.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Thank you! Date: 14 Apr 1998 16:03:00 EDT Clearly enough summer activities to keep my family running around! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gail Carbiener" <carbg@cmc.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Beaver.. Date: 15 Apr 1998 11:20:58 -0700 Dumb question department. How did the mountain men attach their beaver skins to the circular willow rack without damaging the skins? How long would the skins have remained on the rack. I may try to do this but with already tanned skins. I will use the skin and rack as a prop for my living history gig in the museum. Thanks to all by the way for the referral to Moscow Fur! Gail ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jeremiah Johnson Date: 15 Apr 1998 14:34:59 -0600 (CST) >Jim Lindberg wrote: >> >> Goto http://movie.reel.com/moviepage/647.html >> >> Shows Jeremiah Johnson can be had for: >> >> New Used Laserdisc DVD Widescreen >> --- ---- --------- --- ---------- >> $12.74 $6.99 $29.73 $17.49 $16.98 >> >> Jeremiah Johnson can also be obtained from Critic's Choice Video, for >>$10.77, at 800-367-7765. I just recieved their catalog in the mail. > >Why did the movie makers feel the need to change John Johnston's name to >Jeremiah Johnson? > >Ken C Since the story was fictionalized, it was best to change the names of major characters. That way no one can say "John Johnston didn't really do that" because it isn't about the real John Johnston, but the fictional Jerimiah Johnson. J. J. as a character is a composite of several historical figures. The film was loosely based on the life of Johnston as well as others, but by and large it's is pure historical fiction. Good movie, but fiction none the less. Cheers, HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! ******* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TetonTod <TetonTod@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver.. Date: 15 Apr 1998 15:38:09 EDT Gail, The trappers weren't worried about damaging the skins, as the skin wasn't what was used, but rather the fur was shaved off the skin to be used in making hats. Thin rawhide strips were probably used to hoop the skin to the frame as they didn't have balls of twine laying around. Todd Glover ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Parks <kc7cnw@wizzards.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Beaver Pelts Date: 15 Apr 1998 14:22:06 -0700 Gail Carbiener wrote: > Dumb question department. > How did the mountain men attach their beaver skins to the circular willow > rack without damaging the skins? How long would the skins have remained > Gail Hi Gail, Moscow Hide & Fur has a good selection of tanned hides and I'm sure you'll find what you are looking for. Buy with consideration as to quality as well as to size. To answer your question, the hides were attached to the willow hoops with whatever was available to them at the time. Sinew, green hide lacing ,(from another animal, not the beaver) whangs of buckskin tanned or otherwise, any type of cord material they might have handy. When I make up my beaver on the hoop decorators, I go cut me some red willow shoots about 7 foot long and about the size of my thumb on the bottom end. I peel the bark off, cut each one to about 6 1/2 foot. I take two of them and tie one butt end to the small end of the other, I wrap these tightly with about thirty turns of sinew. I then bend the other two ends together (into a hoop) and do the same, overlaping the ends about 6 to 10 inches depending on the diameter of the beaver hide. Each hoop can be adjusted in this manner. I make up these hoops a few weeks in advance of their actual use. After tanning the well fleshed beaver plews, I use a leather hole punch to place 1/8th inch holes all around the outer edge of the hide, spaced about an 1 1/2" apart and about a 1/2" in from the edge. I sew up the leg holes with senew. The tanned hide is placed on one of my beaver stretchers to dry after tanning. (there is no need to work the hide as you would others, it can dry slightly stiff) A beaver stretcher is a hoop made from 3/8ths. steel rod with a nut welded to one end. The opposite end of the rod hoop is passed through this nut making the hoop adjustable for various size beaver pelts. A metal hose clamp holds the stretcher hoop to the proper diameter while the pelt is drying. Metal "S" hooks are used around the the hoop connecting it to the holes punched in the edge of the hide. It takes about a week here in southwestern Oregon for a typical beaver hide to dry out. When they are dry, I take them off the metal hoop and lace them onto the willow hoop with sinew or buckskin lacing, whichever I have the most of. I hold the empty willow hoop up on my extended arm to see where the balance point is on the hoop, once I see where the bottom weight of the hoop is, I begin lacing the head of the beaver hide at the top of the hoop and lace all the way around the hide until I get back to the head again. This makes the finished project hang properly on a wall. Make sure to keep your lacing loops even, so as not to get the pelt off of center. (it looks horrible) To keep the hide centered while lacing, I pre-lace the hide, tieing it off at eight places around the hoop first, this really works well to keep the pelt centered while lacing. After the pelt is laced onto the willow hoop, start at the head area and with a good hair brush (the beaver won't mind, but the wife might!) start brushing the hair down nice and even from top to bottom. This will really make the pelt look nice. A beaver done up this way looks great on a cabin wall. I sell mine at the Voo's as well as to the local Mountain Resorts, Restaurants, and Antique shops, they love 'em! Hope this helps some Gail, good luck with yours. Regards, _M_ Manywounds W ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gail Carbiener" <carbg@cmc.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Beaver Pelts Date: 15 Apr 1998 19:38:11 -0700 Dave: Your instruction sounds a whole lot better than what I was about to try. I saw the guys at Pinedale (Mountainman Museum) heating willows over a fire and bending at the heat point. They were making a bull boat, I was going to use the same method, but using two willows as you suggest allows me to adjust the size. Probably a bunch cleaner too. Didn't think about the fact that the fur was the important part that was used for the hats, not the skin. Do we have a rondy that is open to the public here in Southern Oregon? At least open part of the time for trading. Gail ================================== >> How did the mountain men attach their beaver skins to the circular willow >> rack without damaging the skins? How long would the skins have remained >> Gail > >Hi Gail, > > Moscow Hide & Fur has a good selection of tanned hides and I'm >sure you'll find what you are looking for. Buy with consideration as to >quality as well as to size. To answer your question, the hides were >attached to the willow hoops with whatever was available to them at the >time. Sinew, green hide lacing ,(from another animal, not the beaver) >whangs of buckskin tanned or otherwise, any type of cord material they >might have handy. When I make up my beaver on the hoop decorators, I go >cut me some red willow shoots about 7 foot long and about the size of my >thumb on the bottom end. I peel the bark off, cut each one to about 6 >1/2 foot. I take two of them and tie one butt end to the small end of >the other, I wrap these tightly with about thirty turns of sinew. I then >bend the other two ends together (into a hoop) and do the same, >overlaping the ends about 6 to 10 inches depending on the diameter of >the beaver hide. > Each hoop can be adjusted in this manner. I make up these hoops a >few weeks in advance of their actual use. After tanning the well fleshed >beaver plews, I use a leather hole punch to place 1/8th inch holes all >around the outer edge of the hide, spaced about an 1 1/2" apart and >about a 1/2" in from the edge. I sew up the leg holes with senew. The >tanned hide is placed on one of my beaver stretchers to dry after >tanning. (there is no need to work the hide as you would others, it can >dry slightly stiff) A beaver stretcher is a hoop made from 3/8ths. steel >rod with a nut welded to one end. The opposite end of the rod hoop is >passed through this nut making the hoop adjustable for various size >beaver pelts. A metal hose clamp holds the stretcher hoop to the proper >diameter while the pelt is drying. Metal "S" hooks are used around the >the hoop connecting it to the holes punched in the edge of the hide. It >takes about a week here in southwestern Oregon for a typical beaver hide >to dry out. When they are dry, I take them off the metal hoop and lace >them onto the willow hoop with sinew or buckskin lacing, whichever I >have the most of. I hold the empty willow hoop up on my extended arm to >see where the balance point is on the hoop, once I see where the bottom >weight of the hoop is, I begin lacing the head of the beaver hide at the >top of the hoop and lace all the way around the hide until I get back to >the head again. This makes the finished project hang properly on a wall. >Make sure to keep your lacing loops even, so as not to get the pelt off >of center. (it looks horrible) To keep the hide centered while lacing, I >pre-lace the hide, tieing it off at eight places around the hoop first, >this really works well to keep the pelt centered while lacing. After the >pelt is laced onto the willow hoop, start at the head area and with a >good hair brush (the beaver won't mind, but the wife might!) start >brushing the hair down nice and even from top to bottom. This will >really make the pelt look nice. A beaver done up this way looks great on >a cabin wall. I sell mine at the Voo's as well as to the local Mountain >Resorts, Restaurants, and Antique shops, they love 'em! Hope this helps >some Gail, good luck with yours. > > Regards, _M_ Manywounds > W ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dale Nelson <dnelson@wizzards.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Beaver Pelts Date: 15 Apr 1998 21:14:08 -0700 Gail Carbiener wrote: > > Do we have a rondy that is open to the public here in Southern Oregon? At > least open part of the time for trading. The week before labor day, ending on labor day there is the Western States Muzzleloader shoot at Sportsmans Park in Grants Pass. It's not all primitive, and there is a large traders row. Dale Nelson ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Parks <kc7cnw@wizzards.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Oregon Voo's? Date: 15 Apr 1998 21:38:38 -0700 Gail asked where there were Rondezvous open to the public in Southern Oregon? Other than the Labor day weekend Jed Smith 'Voo near Grants Pass, Oregon, I'm afraid I'm a bit out of touch. (been the last two years on a trapping job in Californy). How 'bout it list-gang? Where's the Voo's at in Southern & Central Oregon this year? When are the dates for the Paisley Voo, The Tall Trees Voo, Mt. Mazama Group, etc.? Thanks in advance from both Gail & I, Regards, _M_ Manywounds W ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Lindberg <jal@cray.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Beaver Pelts Date: 16 Apr 1998 09:22:05 -0500 Another place to check is the Claw Antler and Hide Company in Custer, South Dakota. I stopped at the store while vacationing out there last year. Seemed to have fair prices and were nice people. Not a big store, but sure had lots. Not affliated, just spent money there. Web address is: http://www.wwwtravel.com/sd/custer/cah/index.html Phone: 1-605-673-4345 Hope this helps, Jim /`-_ Jim Lindberg |Les Voyageurs du Val du Chippewa { . }/ 724 East Grand Avenue | \ / Chippewa Falls, WI 54729 USA |Sweete water and light laughter, |___| http://reality.sgi.com/jal/ |Until we next meete. Go Gentle. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Oregon Voo's? Date: 16 Apr 1998 17:13:45 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BD695B.0373C0E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is frog holler at Oak Ridge OR. Maybe some one can come up with something other then what I have on Frog. ---------- : From: Dave Parks <kc7cnw@wizzards.net> : To: hist_text@xmission.com : Subject: MtMan-List: Oregon Voo's? : Date: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 9:38 PM : : Gail asked where there were Rondezvous open to the public in Southern : Oregon? Other than the Labor day weekend Jed Smith 'Voo near Grants : Pass, Oregon, I'm afraid I'm a bit out of touch. (been the last two : years on a trapping job in Californy). How 'bout it list-gang? Where's : the Voo's at in Southern & Central Oregon this year? When are the dates : for the Paisley Voo, The Tall Trees Voo, Mt. Mazama Group, etc.? : : Thanks in advance from both Gail & I, : : Regards, _M_ Manywounds : W : ------=_NextPart_000_01BD695B.0373C0E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">There is frog holler at Oak Ridge OR. = Maybe some one can come up with something other then what I have = on Frog. ---------- : From: Dave Parks <kc7cnw@wizzards.net> : To: hist_text@xmission.com : Subject: MtMan-List: Oregon Voo's? : Date: = Wednesday, April 15, 1998 9:38 PM : : Gail asked where there were = Rondezvous open to the public in Southern : Oregon? Other than = the Labor day weekend Jed Smith 'Voo near Grants : Pass, Oregon, I'm = afraid I'm a bit out of touch. (been the last two : years on a = trapping job in Californy). How 'bout it list-gang? Where's : the = Voo's at in Southern & Central Oregon this year? When are the = dates : for the Paisley Voo, The Tall Trees Voo, Mt. Mazama Group, = etc.? : : = &= nbsp; Thanks in advance from both Gail & = I, : : = &= nbsp; Regards, = _M_ Manywounds : = &= nbsp; &n= bsp; W : </body></html> ------=_NextPart_000_01BD695B.0373C0E0-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mike Katona" <mkatona@pdx.oneworld.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Oregon Voo's? Date: 17 Apr 1998 06:27:20 +0000 Bill Hyde will be S of John Day on Memorial weekend. Next weekend is Troy, OR Mostly a shoot, but they are stating to encourage more primitive dress. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "P.D. Amschler" <buckskinner@mailcity.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Cent. and Northern Calif. Rendezvous Date: 17 Apr 1998 07:32:14 -0700 DOes anyone have an updated rondezvous list? Also does anyone know of a shop that does more black powder guns up here. Paul (bear) Amschler Get your FREE, private e-mail account at http://www.mailcity.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rkleinx2 <Rkleinx2@aol.com> Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: Oregon Voo's? Date: 17 Apr 1998 11:32:03 EDT In a message dated 4/17/98 7:45:25 AM, you wrote: <<Bill Hyde will be S of John Day on Memorial weekend.>> What does this mean? Dick ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ron" <cstmzd@ida.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Newbie Date: 17 Apr 1998 13:12:42 -0600 Greetings to all! My name is Ron Chamberlain, located in S. E. Idaho, I'm new to the list and Green in the ways of the Mt. Man. I'll be occasionally asking 'dumb' questions out of ignorance. Your patience and answers will be appreciated. Are 'Canadian Boots' <http://www3.sympatico.ca/michel.viger/canadian.boot.htm> exceptable footware for pre 1840 voo's? What about 'Coyote's Capotes' using leather for fringe, instead of blanket materials? <http://www.scenicidaho.com/CoyotesCapotes/> Thanks, Ron Ron's Idaho Pages <http://www.ida.net/users/cstmzd/> Email <cstmzd@ida.net> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ron" <cstmzd@ida.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Bad links Date: 17 Apr 1998 15:35:01 -0600 Here's the correct links. http://www3.sympatico.ca/michel.viger/canadian-boot.htm http://www.scenic-idaho.com/CoyotesCapotes/ Sorry, Ron Email <cstmzd@ida.net> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Frank <MedicineBear@Hawken54.sparks.nv.us> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cent. and Northern Calif. Rendezvous Date: 17 Apr 1998 17:30:43 -0700 P.D. Amschler wrote: > DOes anyone have an updated rondezvous list? Next rendezvous: May 1, 2 & 3. Brushy Creek Rangers Rendezvous in the Grass Valley area. Booshway: Bonehead, 530-589-5549 That's all I know about in that area. You just missed one in Redding. Medicine Bear ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Carlson Wagonlit Travel <travel@turbonet.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Newbie Date: 17 Apr 1998 14:42:43 At 01:12 PM 4/17/98 -0600, you wrote: >Greetings to all! > >My name is Ron Chamberlain, located in S. E. Idaho, I'm new to the list and >Green in the ways of the Mt. Man. I'll be occasionally asking 'dumb' >questions out of ignorance. Your patience and answers will be appreciated. >Are 'Canadian Boots' ><http://www3.sympatico.ca/michel.viger/canadian.boot.htm> exceptable >footware for pre 1840 voo's? >What about 'Coyote's Capotes' using leather for fringe, instead of blanket >materials? <http://www.scenicidaho.com/CoyotesCapotes/> > >Thanks, Ron > >Ron's Idaho Pages ><http://www.ida.net/users/cstmzd/> >Email <cstmzd@ida.net> > Ron, I don't know about the boots but the frindged capote is accepted at most Rondys but was technically used after the fur trade era. Keep in mind the mountain man used what resources he had available to him. Matt Mitchell Palouse Hills Muzzleloaders Moscow, Idaho travel@turbonet.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LODGEPOLE <LODGEPOLE@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Newbie Date: 17 Apr 1998 18:02:49 EDT In a message dated 98-04-17 16:03:26 EDT, you write: << I'll be occasionally asking 'dumb' questions out of ignorance. >> Ron, Man did you come to the right place......if there is one thing I can give ye, it's Dumb and Ignorant answers!!!!! Now I'll feel like I have a purpose in life. Welcome to the list!!!!!!!!!! Longshot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Longtrail <ezra@midrivers.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Uses of deerhair today Date: 17 Apr 1998 18:12:34 +0000 Ron, Do you know of anyone that does buy deer hair in bulk? You had written about the uses of deer hair on the History site. Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Newbie Date: 17 Apr 1998 18:07:45 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BD6A2B.B90E44E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you read the write up on those boots you would have found that they are ok if you are a voyager which isn't to bad because I am one. I don't go out and rape and pillage. I don't have to shovel horse shit 11 months out of 12 so I can play my persona. We tie the old Canot du Nord up in the back yard and keep the black berries off it. It went down the Missouri River ok and we didn't have to feed it any oats and etc. The boots are a little spendy but if you have the money its ok. Later Jon Towns ---------- : From: Ron <cstmzd@ida.net> : To: hist_text@xmission.com : Subject: MtMan-List: Newbie : Date: Friday, April 17, 1998 12:12 PM : : Greetings to all! : : My name is Ron Chamberlain, located in S. E. Idaho, I'm new to the list and : Green in the ways of the Mt. Man. I'll be occasionally asking 'dumb' : questions out of ignorance. Your patience and answers will be appreciated. : Are 'Canadian Boots' : <http://www3.sympatico.ca/michel.viger/canadian.boot.htm> exceptable : footware for pre 1840 voo's? : What about 'Coyote's Capotes' using leather for fringe, instead of blanket : materials? <http://www.scenicidaho.com/CoyotesCapotes/> : : Thanks, Ron : : Ron's Idaho Pages : <http://www.ida.net/users/cstmzd/> : Email <cstmzd@ida.net> : ------=_NextPart_000_01BD6A2B.B90E44E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">If you read the write up on those boots = you would have found that they are ok if you are a voyager which isn't = to bad because I am one. I don't go out and rape and pillage. = I don't have to shovel horse shit 11 months out of 12 so I can = play my persona. We tie the old Canot du Nord up in the back yard = and keep the black berries off it. It went down the Missouri River = ok and we didn't have to feed it any oats and etc. The boots are a = little spendy but if you have the money its ok. Later Jon Towns = ---------- : From: Ron <cstmzd@ida.net> : = color=3D"#000000"> : Subject: MtMan-List: Newbie : Date: Friday, = April 17, 1998 12:12 PM : : Greetings to all! : : My name = is Ron Chamberlain, located in S. E. Idaho, I'm new to the list and : = Green in the ways of the Mt. Man. I'll be occasionally asking = 'dumb' : questions out of ignorance. Your patience and answers will = be appreciated. : Are 'Canadian Boots' : <http://www3.sympatico.ca/michel.viger/canadian.boot.= htm> exceptable : footware for pre = 1840 voo's? : What about 'Coyote's Capotes' using leather for = fringe, instead of blanket : materials? <http://www.scenicidaho.com/CoyotesCapotes/> : : Thanks, Ron : : Ron's Idaho = Pages : <http://www.ida.net/users/cstmzd/> : Email <cstmzd@ida.net> : = </f= ont></body></html> ------=_NextPart_000_01BD6A2B.B90E44E0-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" <lahtirog@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Newbie Date: 17 Apr 1998 20:32:22 -0700 Hi Ron; Welcome aboard! I'm Roger Lahti "Captain Lahti" to my friends. Asto your questions on Canadian Boots being OK. There is some evidence that although many Rendezvousers wear them, they are realy not very correct for the early 1800's. I get my info from the Research don by other members of the AMM. My own opinion is that whether that is the final word or not you would be better served to make your own moc's or have a friend make them using one of the many traditional Indian patterns from the Great Lakes region to the Plains and Columbia Basin ie. Flathead style. The same may be said for your quiry about capotes. Use a simple style and make it yourself. You will be dressed much more authenticly and look less like a pilgrim or worse! There is a lot going on in the interior North West in the way of really primitive do'ins so get geared up proper and let me know how you are coming. Oh yea, I believe that it has beeen found that fring of any kind was hard to find if not noexistant on original capootes. My learned opinion for what it's worth. Roger "Capt." Lahti 2030 4/13 -----Original Message----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: 5" brim Hats, and Why I Hate Sketchbooks. Date: 18 Apr 1998 10:44:00 -0600 Angela, Father Nicholas Point capture several jockey caps in his paintings and sketches (1841-1847), and that art is reproduced in the book that I referred you to earlier. One jockey cap is on a young man in a portrait, and the cap it depicted in some detail. Among other things, Father Point shows a ribbon or drawstring the runs around inside the cap's headband and ties in front above the visor, making the cap adjustable for head size. The shape and form of this particular cap suggest that it was made of leather, or some other material stiff enough to hold a round dome-shaped crown. In almost all the Point paintings, that I can recall, with men included in the scened wearing jockey caps, the cap's crowns are very round and dome shaped. That same shape is also consistently depicted in the Indian art published along with Point's art and journal. It is also interesting to note, and it perhaps lends some supportive information -- that heavy leather-crowned hats with front visors, called helmets, were used by the British military as least as late as the American Revolution. There is a sketch of a leather baseball-cap-type helmets in one of the kinds of books your really hate, but I won't mention it for fear of stimulating another rant. (Sketchbook of the American Revolution) The leather military helmet may be easier to document than period jockey caps, and I'll try to remember to look for an example next time that I happen to visit the museum in the Tower of London that houses the big collection of historical British body armour. Last time I was there, my kids drug me through the armour and weapons at such high speed that I could hardly learn anything about the arms or armour. Unfortunately, the kids had learned earlier that there is a torture chamber in the dungeon and didn't have any surplus patience to waste on the rest of museum. I believe it was Dean Rudy, who mentioned to me a few months ago, that the modern English-style protective riding helmets (worn for jumping and fox hunting) that have a shape similar to small caps with visors can, in some similar form, be traced back through many generations of British art depicting equestrian scenes. Your British cousins seem slow to change the fashion required for old traditional sporting events. I'd bet my buckskins that a person could find pictures of jockey caps for just about any segement of the fur trade captured in similar period art in the gallaries in Great Britain. It seems that one of the duties of all royal families is to commission lots of art, and royal families seem to have an affinity of for all things equestrian. Finding and documenting jockey caps should be easier than finding other "holy grail" of the fur trade, such as those duck capotes I'm looking for. Dave Tippets -----Original Message----- >Dave "Manywounds" Parks <kc7cnw@wizzards.net> wrote: >>Hi Ron, Yes, the 5" brim would run all the way around the crown, if >>it was just in the front.....it would look like a baseball cap. > >Baseball-style caps did exist in the fur trade. They were (and are) called >'jockey caps'. David Thompson took 6 jockey caps over the Athabasca Pass in >1810-1811 (Belyea, 255-257). In 1820, the HBC's George Simpson ordered over >50 jockey caps for the Athabasca outfit of 1821-1822. In the _Voyageur's >Sketchbook_, there is a sketch on around page 4 of a jockey cap decorated by >marabou feathers. The original of this sketch is attributed to "Meyer". > >--Rant alert!-- >I HATE SKETCHBOOKS! They drive me N-U-T-S! I don't know of any artist called >"Meyer" who drew or painted voyageurs, and there is no other indication in >the sketchbook of the name of the painting, the full name of the artist, or >where this particular painting or drawing might be found. The same goes for >almost everything else in this sketchbook, and this is typical of >sketchbooks aimed at reenactors--lots of pretty pictures and very definite >statements, but very rarely is there anything to back up the claims or >explain where to find the original source. Yet the information often comes >from people who are, presumably, knowledgeable in the subject area... It >makes me want to take the author/artist and shake them... >--End of rant.-- > > I'd love to know more about jockey caps. > >Your humble & obedient servant, >Angela Gottfred >agottfre@telusplanet.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jbrandl@wyoming.com (Joe Brandl) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Newbie Date: 19 Apr 1998 15:16:17 -0600 Ron, What area of pre 1840's are you looking for? Sometimes, items that were readily available in the east, took several years to be introduced to the west. Capotes were just not a common item of most western mtn men. Either a boot or more common a leather shoe (brogon) or if in the western states, a side seam moccasins. Moccasins are probally recorded as being worn most often. The "Holy Grail" of historical readings for any fur trade participatant is the Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly. Be careful when you read any any books on the fur trade as each have varioius opinions and interpretations of artist works, journals of the time era. Never use only one source as being it. The quarterlies though use different authors for articles. It was a sad day in history when Charley Hanson died this month. I have the address to write to: Museum of the Fur Trade, 6321 highway 20, Chadron, NEf 69337, $10 per year Joe Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery Call us about our professional home tanning kit-307-455-2440 We produce rawhide lampshades and carry a large selection of leather and hair on robes Fine lodgepole furniture, pillows, Indian reproductions, paintings, baskets check out our new web site: http://www.onpages.com/absaroka ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Allen" <allen@blueridge-ef.SAIC.COM> Subject: MtMan-List: Going to the Fair Date: 21 Apr 1998 07:31:29 -0500 Hello the list(s), I'll be going to postpone mode this afternoon before taking off for the Market Fair. If anyone needs any last minute directions or information email before about 3 p.m. EST. Anyone who is coming to visit, have a safe trip and please stop by and say hi. For those heading out to the MLML '98 in Iowa, please be safe and have a grand time. See ya back here on Monday! Your most humble servant, Scott Allen Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick Fairplay, MD http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dejawog <Dejawog@aol.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Date: 21 Apr 1998 13:46:37 EDT hey there.. have a good time at the fair..... we're looking for rendezvous in the OH, PA, IN, MI, VA areas.. anyone know anything coming up, or have a list of them? thanx Dejavous ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barry Powell <bpowell@kiva.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Date: 21 Apr 1998 13:43:16 -0500 At 01:46 PM 4/21/98 EDT, you wrote: >hey there.. have a good time at the fair..... >we're looking for rendezvous in the OH, PA, IN, MI, VA areas.. >anyone know anything coming up, or have a list of them? thanx >Dejavous > > Got one coming on Memorial Day weekend in Vincennes IN, Sat. and Sun. at the George Rogers Clark Memorial grounds. Pretty good rendezvous. About 150,000 attend both days. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Parks <kc7cnw@magick.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: 150,000 people? Date: 21 Apr 1998 12:20:48 -0700 Barry Powell wrote: > > At 01:46 PM 4/21/98 EDT, you wrote: > >hey there.. have a good time at the fair..... > >we're looking for rendezvous in the OH, PA, IN, MI, VA areas.. > >anyone know anything coming up, or have a list of them? thanx > >Dejavous > > > > > > Got one coming on Memorial Day weekend in Vincennes IN, Sat. and Sun. at the > George Rogers Clark Memorial grounds. Pretty good rendezvous. About 150,000 > attend both days. I hope you meant to say 1,500 people Barry, I don't think I'd want to be at a 'Voo with 150,000 people attending! Imagine the lines to the outhouses! I don't think that many people show up to all the Voo's in the US put together. But it would SURE be a SIGHT to SEE, if they did! Regards, _M_ Manywounds W ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jbrandl@wyoming.com (Joe Brandl) Subject: MtMan-List: hand made linen shirts Date: 21 Apr 1998 16:41:41 -0600 I'm looking for a good source for hand sewn or machine sewn linen shirts, also hand forged buckles? Thanks Joe Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery Call us about our professional home tanning kit-307-455-2440 We produce rawhide lampshades and carry a large selection of leather and hair on robes Fine lodgepole furniture, pillows, Indian reproductions, paintings, baskets check out our new web site: http://www.onpages.com/absaroka ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pat Laughlin <pat1@pe.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Hammerfest Yucaipa Adobe Date: 21 Apr 1998 20:51:51 -0700 To all of you in Southern California. We are having a hammerfest on May 16 and 17th at the Yucaipa Adobe which was owned by Mountain Man Jim Waters. We are a blacksmithing group and would love to have any of you attend the hammerin. Our web page is: http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/blythe/2/index.html you can e me if you have any questions. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Frank <MedicineBear@Hawken54.sparks.nv.us> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hand made linen shirts Date: 21 Apr 1998 23:01:40 -0700 Talk to Jack "Lame Bear" Smith at: http://www.medicineriver.com/ Medicine Bear Joe Brandl wrote: > I'm looking for a good source for hand sewn or machine sewn linen shirts, > also hand forged buckles? > Thanks > Joe > > Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery > Call us about our professional home tanning kit-307-455-2440 > We produce rawhide lampshades and carry a large selection of leather and > hair on robes > Fine lodgepole furniture, pillows, Indian reproductions, paintings, baskets > check out our new web site: http://www.onpages.com/absaroka ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hand made linen shirts Date: 22 Apr 1998 01:21:50 EDT can do belt buckels any way you want iron tounge forge wks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barry Powell <bpowell@kiva.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: 150,000 people? Date: 22 Apr 1998 09:02:04 -0500 > > > I hope you meant to say 1,500 people Barry, I don't think I'd want >to be at a 'Voo with 150,000 people attending! Imagine the lines to the >outhouses! I don't think that many people show up to all the Voo's in >the US put together. But it would SURE be a SIGHT to SEE, if they did! > > Regards, _M_ Manywounds > W > > Mayby I should have specified "150,000 spectators". Actual participants would probably be several hundred, because they also have a very large revolutionary battle reenactment. There are possibly 200 people involved in that alone. I live not too far from Friendship, IN, where the NMLRA nationals are held, and of course you know how many show up there. Also there's the " Feast of the Hunter's Moon" in Lafayette, IN, where there are about 100,000 spectators show up each day for this two day event in October. We of course have the small local groups that have the more "traditional" less commercial 'Voos, but, only family and friends are all that usually show up for those. I was talking about the one's that a person might want to drive a couple hundred miles and take his family to. The success of these is gaged by the # of spectators. I don't know the number of actual number of participants, but usually if you get that many people in attendance, there's enough involved to put on a good show. It's also a good place tho pick up some supplies because most of the major traders show up. Sorry about the misunderstanding. Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kat Hargus <kat@janrix.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hand made linen shirts Date: 22 Apr 1998 16:20:38 -0700 I can supply the hand sewn or machine stitched linen shirts. Please e-mail me off list for pricing and details. Kat Hargus owner, Making Time www.makingtime.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hand made linen shirts Date: 23 Apr 1998 00:55:21 -0500 At 04:20 PM 4/22/98 -0700, you wrote: >I can supply the hand sewn or machine stitched linen shirts. Please=20 >e-mail me off list for pricing and details. > >Kat Hargus >owner, Making Time ><http://www.makingtime.com/>www.makingtime.com >=20 Joe, I'm not sure if I've ever met Kat Hargus. I don't really know anything= about her or her business. I am certain I know "Lame Bear." I used to trade with him, 20 years ago. = =20 I would send my money to Kat, even if the shirt cost more. =20 John... John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0 Kramer's Best Antique Improver >>>It makes wood wonderful<<<=A0 -=A0 >>>As good as old!<<< http://www.kramerize.com/ mail to: john<kramer@kramerize.com>=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CT OAKES <CTOAKES@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Date: 23 Apr 1998 08:19:52 EDT In a message dated 98-04-21 14:24:27 EDT, you write: << we're looking for rendezvous in the OH, PA, IN, MI, VA areas.. anyone know anything coming up, or have a list of them? thanx Dejavous >> For me to list them all would cause carple tunnel syndrom, I'm serious there are more re-inactments and rendezvous in that part of the country then anyone can get to. NMLRA has one west of Pittsburg Sept 24-Oct 3rd. Great North American Rendezvous is also outside of Pitt Sep 11th - 19th. Whispering Pines is Aug 14-16th thats in north central Pa. But your best bet is to get a copy of: Smoke & Fire News P.O. Box 166 Grand Rapids Oh 43522 419-832-0303 Yearly Subscription is $18 and well worth it for the best listing of events you will find for Early American, F&I, Rev War, War of 1812, Rendezvous Fur Trade, Medival, Civil War and great articles to boot. The March 1998 issue lists 68 events under the Early American heading in the Indiana, Ohio, Pa area alone. So for all of you looking for info on events I can't recommend this publication enough it is a great source of info. If you are anywhere near NE Ohio you can usually get a copy of Smoke & Fire at the Log Cabin Shop in Lodi Oh. Great place to leave your retirement money if you like to shop for black powder and re-inactment supplies. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "The Windhams" <windham@jps.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Hammerfest Yucaipa Adobe Date: 23 Apr 1998 21:07:19 -0700 ---------- Pat Laughlin Wrote ; > To all of you in Southern California. We are having a hammerfest on May > 16 and 17th at the Yucaipa Adobe which was owned by Mountain Man Jim > Waters. We are a blacksmithing group and would love to have any of you > attend the hammerin. > > Our web page is: > http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/blythe/2/index.html you can e me > if you have any questions. Sounds like a good place to go play handles ! I asume when you invited mountian men that was in full dress ? anyway sounds like a nice way to spend the day, hope you have alot of handles in stock !! will list it on our web Rick windham http://www.ptw.com/~lattance/home/blackhawk.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Frank <MedicineBear@Hawken54.sparks.nv.us> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hand made linen shirts Date: 23 Apr 1998 17:44:09 -0700 Hello Joe, I just received a war shirt, britches and two cotton shirts from Lame Bear at Medicine River Trading Post. The war shirt is outstanding! The cotton shirts were very nice and fit perfectly. I am sure Kat does good work too, but I have first hand knowledge of Lame Bear's work and it is absolutely beautiful! He was very helpful to me and made exactly what I asked for. Lame Bear gets my highest recommendation. http://www.medicineriver.com/ Medicine Bear John Kramer wrote: > Joe, > > I'm not sure if I've ever met Kat Hargus. I don't really know anything about > her or her business. > > I am certain I know "Lame Bear." I used to trade with him, 20 years ago. > > I would send my money to Kat, even if the shirt cost more. > > John... > > John T. Kramer, maker of: Kramer's Best Antique Improver > >>>It makes wood wonderful<<< - >>>As good as old!<<< > http://www.kramerize.com/ > mail to: john<kramer@kramerize.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: darlene <darlene@sssnet.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hand made linen shirts Date: 23 Apr 1998 21:46:27 -0400 At 04:41 PM 4/21/98 -0600, you wrote:my wife is in the business of all hand sewn clothing.she can do any time period that you are looking for.her company name is STITCHES IN TYME & you can reach her @ darlene@sssnet.com & she can give you pricing for what ever you need >I'm looking for a good source for hand sewn or machine sewn linen shirts, >also hand forged buckles? >Thanks >Joe > >Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery >Call us about our professional home tanning kit-307-455-2440 >We produce rawhide lampshades and carry a large selection of leather and >hair on robes >Fine lodgepole furniture, pillows, Indian reproductions, paintings, baskets >check out our new web site: http://www.onpages.com/absaroka > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: darlene <darlene@sssnet.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Date: 23 Apr 1998 21:52:42 -0400 you asked about any rony in oh & there is a really good 1 the 1st wkend of june in killbuck oh.if you want any further info please let me know & i will gladly mail you a flyer.it is called the beaver shoot & the women do a fantastic job. At 01:46 PM 4/21/98 EDT, you wrote: >hey there.. have a good time at the fair..... >we're looking for rendezvous in the OH, PA, IN, MI, VA areas.. >anyone know anything coming up, or have a list of them? thanx >Dejavous > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hand made linen shirts Date: 24 Apr 1998 01:01:35 EDT as isaid yesterday i can make you any stile belt buckel you want iron tounge ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Lindberg <jal@cray.com> Subject: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 24 Apr 1998 08:01:43 -0500 Looking for info on roasting green coffee beans over a camp fire, how do you all do it? Jim /`-_ Jim Lindberg |Les Voyageurs du Val du Chippewa { . }/ 724 East Grand Avenue | \ / Chippewa Falls, WI 54729 USA |Sweete water and light laughter, |___| http://reality.sgi.com/jal/ |Until we next meete. Go Gentle. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "S.M.Despain-1" <sdespain@ou.edu> Subject: MtMan-List: Looking for information on clubs/groups Date: 24 Apr 1998 10:27:35 -0500 My name is Matt Despain and for vernacular sakes go by "Doc Wannabe" because I'm working om my dissertation. I'm examining the image of the mountain man in American history and culture, and part of that includes modern day buckskinning. What I'm interested in is the histories and constitutions/charters of groups to see when they were organized and what influences led to their formation. I am also interested in the formality (or lack of it) that certain groups prescribe to in their activities (how one must dress, speak, or carry themselves in a social rank). I am mostly interested in groups that participate in recreating the Far West fur trade and the Rocky Mountain rendezvous (circa 1800-1840), but any information from groups that portray other facets of the fur trade or frontiering are equally welcome. I would be most appreciative of any information anyone could send my way. Matt "Doc Wannabe" Despain 1339 Homeland Ave. Norman, OK 73072 (405) 447-4046 sdespain@ou.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 24 Apr 1998 10:52:23 -0400 Hi Jim, When I have the luxury of fresh coffee beans and someone that has a frying pan, this is how I do it, right or wrong.. Heat your pan until it is warm and then put enough beans in to almost cover the bottem. Place over the coals and I shake it or you can stir them constantly, don't scorch 'em just keep slowly roasing them until they are VERY dark brown, the will get oiley as well(this is good). Then take 'em and put them in a poke and crush them and make your coffee, you may need to roast more than one pan to get as much as you need. Good Luck Dennis Miles Double Edge Forge Jim Lindberg wrote: > Looking for info on roasting green coffee beans over a camp fire, > how do you all do it? > > Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > /`-_ Jim Lindberg |Les Voyageurs du Val du Chippewa > { . }/ 724 East Grand Avenue | > \ / Chippewa Falls, WI 54729 USA |Sweete water and light laughter, > |___| http://reality.sgi.com/jal/ |Until we next meete. Go Gentle. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Pat Quilter" <pat_quilter@qscaudio.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: roasting Coffee Date: 24 Apr 1998 10:18:06 -0700 Re: roasting Coffee Roasting coffee is pretty simple. First you start with green beans (the hard part sometimes). Line the bottom of a small dry skillet with a layer of beans, heat over a fire while rolling them around until well browned, or scorched as the case may be, then smash in small sack or folded cloth as usual to prepare the brew. It seems to take a good few minutes and its like waiting for popcorn to pop except of course there's no popping. The several times I've done it the results were not quite as rich as store-roasted but it worked. Now that I think of it, I wonder if a popcorn basket would work, but we didn't have such a convenience last time I roasted coffee on the trail. I'm told that green beans last for years, whereas pre-roasted are good for a few months (and pre-ground of course goes stale quickly outside of a sealed tin). Happy roasting Yr Ob't S'vt Pilgrim Pat ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vic Barkin <Victor.Barkin@NAU.EDU> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 24 Apr 1998 11:41:35 -0700 Hi Jim, I'll just tag onto what Dennis said. That's how I do it too. One thing I'll add is to keep it over some coals and do a slow roast till they are dark brown, then put them on high heat stirring fast to bring out the oils. pour them into your poke and let cool. for immediate use pound and boil. remember, green beans will keep indefinatly, roasted, a couple of weeks to a couple of years depending on your definition of stale, and ground, a couple of weeks less. B. Dawg >Hi Jim, > When I have the luxury of fresh coffee beans and someone that has a frying >pan, this is how I do it, right or wrong.. Heat your pan until it is >warm and then put enough beans in to almost cover the bottem. Place over the >coals and I shake it or you can stir them constantly, don't scorch 'em just >keep slowly roasing them until they are VERY dark brown, the will get oiley >as well(this is good). Then take 'em and put them in a poke and crush them >and make your coffee, you may need to roast more than one pan to get as much >as you need. >Good Luck >Dennis Miles >Double Edge Forge > >Jim Lindberg wrote: > >> Looking for info on roasting green coffee beans over a camp fire, >> how do you all do it? >> >> Jim >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> /`-_ Jim Lindberg |Les Voyageurs du Val du Chippewa >> { . }/ 724 East Grand Avenue | >> \ / Chippewa Falls, WI 54729 USA |Sweete water and light laughter, >> |___| http://reality.sgi.com/jal/ |Until we next meete. Go Gentle. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Vic "Barkin Dawg" Barkin AMM #1534 Three Rivers Party "Aux aliments du pays!" Booshway of the Powderhorn Clan of Arizona Celebrating our 50th anniversary 1948-1998 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Lindberg <jal@cray.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 24 Apr 1998 14:21:52 -0500 Also, I see James Townsend has green coffee, any body know where else to get it? Thanks, ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pat Laughlin <pat1@pe.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Hammerfest Yucaipa Adobe Date: 24 Apr 1998 13:19:42 -0700 Full dress is not required. Just come and enjoy the day. Should be fun. Might keep Sept 5th open as that will be our next event and will be a pioneer day. Our adobe was a haven for a few mountain men during that time. The Windhams wrote: > ---------- > Pat Laughlin Wrote ; > > > To all of you in Southern California. We are having a hammerfest on May > > 16 and 17th at the Yucaipa Adobe which was owned by Mountain Man Jim > > Waters. We are a blacksmithing group and would love to have any of you > > attend the hammerin. > > > > Our web page is: > > http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/blythe/2/index.html you can e me > > if you have any questions. > > Sounds like a good place to go play handles ! I asume when you invited > mountian men that was in full dress ? anyway sounds like a nice way to > spend the day, hope you have alot of handles in stock !! > will list it on our web > Rick windham > http://www.ptw.com/~lattance/home/blackhawk.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vic Barkin <Victor.Barkin@NAU.EDU> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 24 Apr 1998 16:12:22 -0700 >Also, I see James Townsend has green coffee, any body know where else to >get it? > There is a coffee importer in SanFrancisco by the name of Royal Coffee. If you want a lifetime supply, or have alot of friends, you can pick up a sack (133lbs) at commodity prices. after freight and everything, you may be paying $2 a pound depending on market conditions. I had a mail order business for a while selling green coffee under the name Green Rio a few years ago. There are others selling it though mags such as Muzzeloader. The pre-eminant variety of the fur trade was Rio so called because it was shipped from the port of Rio DeJanerio. today, you can find the same type of coffee as then under the name Santos and Oro to name a few. When I bought in bulk from Royal, I was surprised to find that much of the Santos I sold under the Green Rio name was actually sold these days....to prisons! Whall hell! Ifn it war good enough fer Mounainy men, It's good enough fer mother stabbers father rapers and lawyers, waugh! Vic Nathan Barkin Printing and Reproduction Services Manager NAU Publication Services 520-523-6160 Victor.Barkin@nau.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas <pdkeas@market1.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans.. Date: 24 Apr 1998 16:46:08 +0000 Put them in a skillet and keep moving the skillet around while you roast them..Take them off when they get to be the color you want. Then put them in a bag and pound them into small grains, dump them in a pot and make the coffee. Don't bother to offer me any - I drink tea. DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS --- PROPRIETORS OF THE NADA TRADING COMPANY Jim Lindberg wrote: >Looking for info on roasting green coffee beans over a camp fire, >how do you all do it? > >Jim > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > /`-_ Jim Lindberg |Les Voyageurs du Val du Chippewa > { . }/ 724 East Grand Avenue | > \ / Chippewa Falls, WI 54729 USA |Sweete water and light laughter, > |___| http://reality.sgi.com/jal/ |Until we next meete. Go Gentle. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > >Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com > (SMTPD32-4.03) id A490266A00C2; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:41:20 MST >Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0ySjX2-0005FY-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:32:52 -0600 >Received: from (xmission.xmission.com) [198.60.22.2] (drudy) > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0ySjX0-0005FT-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:32:50 -0600 >Received: (from drudy@localhost) by xmission.xmission.com (8.8.8/8.7.5) id >IAA03518 for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:32:49 -0600 (MDT) >Received: from (timbuk-fddi.cray.com) [128.162.8.102] > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0ySi6h-0001aD-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 07:01:35 -0600 >Received: from badger.cray.com (badger-f234.cray.com [137.38.234.22]) by >timbuk-fddi.cray.com (8.8.8/CRI-gate-news-1.3) with ESMTP id IAA21079 for ><hist_text@lists.xmission.com.>; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:01:34 -0500 (CDT) >Received: from lindco2 (lindco2 [137.38.89.177]) by badger.cray.com >(8.8.8/CRI-news-1.3) with SMTP id IAA12924 for <hist_text@lists.xmission. com>; Fri, 24 Apr >1998 08:01:33 -0500 (CDT) >Message-ID: <35408B56.446B@cray.com> >Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:01:43 -0500 >From: Jim Lindberg <jal@cray.com> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01SC-SGI (X11; I; IRIX 6.2 IP22) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans >References: <3.0.5.32.19980423214627.0079a7a0@mail.sssnet.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >X-UIDL: 891662978 >Status: U > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hand made linen shirts Date: 25 Apr 1998 02:24:55 -0500 At 05:44 PM 4/23/98 -0700, Frank wrote: >Hello Joe, > >I just received a war shirt, britches and two cotton shirts from Lame Bear Frank, Good, you got what you paid for. John... Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer kramer@kramerize.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kirsten Smith and Tania Dopler <kirtan@storm.ca> Subject: MtMan-List: roasting coffee Date: 25 Apr 1998 10:23:16 -0400 Now here's the $20 question. When roasting the beans is the oil good are bad to keep. Using a popcorn roaster - at least the one I have - would cause the oil to leak out. By the way, hello list. My name is Kirsten and I've been lurking for a few weeks. My partner and I are still pilgrims in buckskinning but we're learning. Have learned lots of interesting things from this list as a matter of fact. Is anyone on the list from Canada (ottawa to be precise) or know of a similar list for Ontario or eastern seaboard area? many thanks, Kirsten a.k.a Medicine Hand kirtan@storm.ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Addison Miller <sean@naplesnet.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 25 Apr 1998 10:43:37 -0400 To keep the beans fresh indefinately, I roast them at home and freeze them. <chuckles> No, not on the stove, but on a brasier with old style charcoal. They stay good forever it seems. YS... Addison Miller Vic Barkin wrote: > Hi Jim, > > I'll just tag onto what Dennis said. That's how I do it too. One thing I'll > add is to keep it over some coals and do a slow roast till they are dark > brown, then put them on high heat stirring fast to bring out the oils. pour > them into your poke and let cool. for immediate use pound and boil. > remember, green beans will keep indefinatly, roasted, a couple of weeks to > a couple of years depending on your definition of stale, and ground, a > couple of weeks less. > > B. Dawg > > >Hi Jim, > > When I have the luxury of fresh coffee beans and someone that has a frying > >pan, this is how I do it, right or wrong.. Heat your pan until it is > >warm and then put enough beans in to almost cover the bottem. Place over the > >coals and I shake it or you can stir them constantly, don't scorch 'em just > >keep slowly roasing them until they are VERY dark brown, the will get oiley > >as well(this is good). Then take 'em and put them in a poke and crush them > >and make your coffee, you may need to roast more than one pan to get as much > >as you need. > >Good Luck > >Dennis Miles > >Double Edge Forge > > > >Jim Lindberg wrote: > > > >> Looking for info on roasting green coffee beans over a camp fire, > >> how do you all do it? > >> > >> Jim > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> /`-_ Jim Lindberg |Les Voyageurs du Val du Chippewa > >> { . }/ 724 East Grand Avenue | > >> \ / Chippewa Falls, WI 54729 USA |Sweete water and light laughter, > >> |___| http://reality.sgi.com/jal/ |Until we next meete. Go Gentle. > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Vic "Barkin Dawg" Barkin > > AMM #1534 Three Rivers Party > "Aux aliments du pays!" > > Booshway of the Powderhorn Clan of Arizona > Celebrating our 50th anniversary 1948-1998 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee Date: 25 Apr 1998 12:13:52 -0500 At 10:23 AM 4/25/98 -0400, you wrote: >Now here's the $20 question. When roasting the beans is the oil good are >bad to keep. Using a popcorn roaster - at least the one I have - would >cause the oil to leak out. > >By the way, hello list. My name is Kirsten and I've been lurking for a >few weeks. My partner and I are still pilgrims in buckskinning but we're >learning. Have learned lots of interesting things from this list as a >matter of fact. > >Is anyone on the list from Canada (ottawa to be precise) or know of a >similar list for Ontario or eastern seaboard area? > >many thanks, >Kirsten a.k.a Medicine Hand > >kirtan@storm.ca > It ain't like a leaky transmission. Just a glaze of oil on the surface. The beans sweat oil so to speak. John... Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer kramer@kramerize.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 25 Apr 1998 13:28:56 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BD704E.191AF900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim April 95 Mark Baker had an article about roasting Green coffee beans write or call the Muzzleloader Rt. 5, Box 347-M Texarkana TX 75501-9442 or 1-800-228-6389 on pg. 15, 16, but believe me it's not hard. Who taught the MT Man. With the fresh oils it taste real good. I bought some from Starbucks in Seattle and roasted some in the house and made it up. MMMMMMMMM-goooooooood this came from Ethiopia. Boy is it black, I added a little cream and it turned green dark. I love it try it you'll love it to. Later Jon T ---------- : From: Jim Lindberg <jal@cray.com> : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Subject: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans : Date: Friday, April 24, 1998 6:01 AM : : Looking for info on roasting green coffee beans over a camp fire, : how do you all do it? : : Jim : : ------------------------------------------------------------------------ : /`-_ Jim Lindberg |Les Voyageurs du Val du Chippewa : { . }/ 724 East Grand Avenue | : \ / Chippewa Falls, WI 54729 USA |Sweete water and light laughter, : |___| http://reality.sgi.com/jal/ |Until we next meete. Go Gentle. : ------------------------------------------------------------------------ : ------=_NextPart_000_01BD704E.191AF900 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">Jim = April 95 Mark Baker had an article = about roasting Green coffee beans write or call the Muzzleloader Rt. 5, = Box 347-M Texarkana TX 75501-9442 or 1-800-228-6389 on pg. 15, 16, = but believe me it's not hard. Who taught the MT Man. With = the fresh oils it taste real good. I bought some from Starbucks in = Seattle and roasted some in the house and made it up. = MMMMMMMMM-goooooooood this came from Ethiopia. Boy is it = black, I added a little cream and it turned green dark. I = love it try it you'll love it to. Later Jon T = ---------- : From: Jim Lindberg <jal@cray.com> : = color=3D"#000000"> : Subject: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans : = roasting green coffee beans over a camp fire, : how do you all do = it? : : Jim : : = br>: /`-_ Jim Lindberg = &= nbsp; |Les Voyageurs du Val du Chippewa : { . = }/ 724 East Grand Avenue = | : \ = / Chippewa Falls, WI 54729 USA |Sweete water and = light laughter, : |___| http://reality.sgi.com/jal/ |Until we next meete. Go Gentle. : = br>: </body></html> ------=_NextPart_000_01BD704E.191AF900-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hand made linen shirts Date: 25 Apr 1998 23:45:05 EDT i dont know why you wount answer my e mail note on hand forged belt buckels iron tounge ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Looking for information on clubs/groups Date: 25 Apr 1998 23:50:13 EDT most of these so called mountian men do it all on the computer and probabaly wount answer your e-m lots of luck. iron tounge ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 25 Apr 1998 23:53:11 EDT i roast them one at atime too bring out the flaver. i ues agreen willow stick. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 25 Apr 1998 19:56:57 -1000 ITWHEELER wrote: > > i roast them one at atime too bring out the flaver. i ues agreen > willow > stick. How many willow sticks does hit take to git one cup of coffee? Blue ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Pamela Wheeler" <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Looking for information on clubs/groups Date: 26 Apr 1998 14:25:45 -0500 You just said a mouthful iron tounge! I have noticed the same problem with storm chasers on the net as well. Just big mouthed wannabees! YellowFeather AMM # 251 ---------- > From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Looking for information on clubs/groups > Date: Saturday, April 25, 1998 10:50 PM > > most of these so called mountian men do it all on the computer and probabaly > wount answer your e-m lots of luck. > iron tounge ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Traphand <Traphand@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee Date: 25 Apr 1998 22:05:54 EDT Kirsten, I think somehow you got the wrong idea about coffee. Try using a cast iron skillet. The popcorn popper will not work. The oil will come from the bean, no oil should be added . The reasoning for the cast iron is that is slowly cooks at an even heat. Use a slow heat. The bean will slowly turn brown as it is roasted. If you don't have cast iron, use the heaviest skillet you have at the LOWEST heat. Test it first with a few beans till you feel confident about what you are doing. The browned bean (after cooled) can be inserted into your mouth and will have a strong coffee flavor. Don't suck too long you'll have a coffee HIGH!! Questions? E-M me privately. Traphand Traphand@aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RR1LA <RR1LA@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Looking for information on clubs/groups Date: 26 Apr 1998 16:07:47 EDT Funny, it seems the negative comments about wannabees and people not responding to e-mails is coming from those that are here, on their computers, writing e-mail darn near EVERY day. Did you guys out there makin' negative comments about others in this group ever stop to think some of us are actually out living our history and may not have had a chance to read, much less respond, to your stuff? Take it easy, guys, this really isnt a place to be hostile, or sellin' your stuff for that matter; we're all here to learn from each other, pilgrim and booshway alike. YMHOS PJ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RR1LA <RR1LA@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee Date: 26 Apr 1998 19:22:26 EDT Traphand is right on the money - slow roasting is the key, and the properly finished bean, with an oily glaze, when you chomp on it, will smell and taste almost exactly like the finished cup of coffee. also wanted to add, it seems the best camp coffee i've ever had is NEVER boiled, but brought right to the edge of a boil then removed from the fire. PJ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee Date: 26 Apr 1998 15:21:30 -1000 RR1LA wrote: > > Traphand is right on the money - slow roasting is the key, and the > properly > finished bean, with an oily glaze, when you chomp on it, will smell > and taste > almost exactly like the finished cup of coffee. also wanted to add, > it seems > the best camp coffee i've ever had is NEVER boiled, but brought right > to the > edge of a boil then removed from the fire. PJ That is a good way to make "cowboy" coffee. Look, I grew up in Texas. Here's my way to make real good coffee. Bring the water to a rolling boil, take it off the fire and put in however much coffee you like, stir it once or twice and *Leave It Alone* for 5 minutes. By the clock if you have one. Swirl about half a cup of cold water in to settle the grounds and pour as soon as they are settled. Makes a clear, strong, really good coffee. Made with fresh-roasted and -ground beans, it'll jolt you right up. Aloha, Blue ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bamafan@Traveller.COM (PHIL PETERSEN) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Looking for information on clubs/groups Date: 27 Apr 1998 01:47:04 GMT Thank you. I was thinking the same thing. Phil >Funny, it seems the negative comments about wannabees and people not >responding to e-mails is coming from those that are here, on their computers, >writing e-mail darn near EVERY day. Did you guys out there makin' negative >comments about others in this group ever stop to think some of us are actually >out living our history and may not have had a chance to read, much less >respond, to your stuff? Take it easy, guys, this really isnt a place to be >hostile, or sellin' your stuff for that matter; we're all here to learn from >each other, pilgrim and booshway alike. YMHOS PJ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Casapy123 <Casapy123@aol.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: History Institue focused on the fur trade Date: 26 Apr 1998 23:29:17 EDT On the weekend of April 23 - 25, 1999, the Jedediah Smith Society will be sponsoring a symposium called, "Jedediah Smith and the Fur Trade Era." The call for papers has gone out. Proposal deadline is November 15, 1998. It will be held at the University of the Pacific in Stockton, CA. The symposium celebrates the 200th anniversary of the birthday of Jed Smith and will make a criticla ssessment of his career and importance as a fur trader and explorer. It will also discuss the importance of the fur trade and its impact on the nation with emphasis on California. Put the date on your calendar now. If you want a copy of the call for papers, let me know and I'll see you get one. If you want more information on the Jedediah Smith Society, I can see that they send your a brochure as well. You might want to jon that organization. Jim Hardee AMM#1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 (530)283-4566 (H) (530)283-3330 (w) (530)283-5171 FAX Casapy123@aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Frank <MedicineBear@Hawken54.sparks.nv.us> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 26 Apr 1998 06:25:08 -0700 Okay, I give up. How do you ballance that cotton picken' bean on the stick? I've been up all night and have dropped all my beans in the fire! Man, it's tuff being a greenhorn!!! > ITWHEELER wrote: > > > > i roast them one at atime too bring out the flaver. i ues agreen > > willow stick. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 26 Apr 1998 06:37:31 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BD70DD.CA1CA480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is this the way the old Mt Men talked, and wrote? Or have I missed something. I prefer the new English. I have read lots old Journals and have never had a hard time figuring out what they wrote. I know Lewis and Clark were not good at spelling. But if this way of writing is not a joke I'm sorry. But if it is, it's hard to read. ---------- : From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net> : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans : Date: Saturday, April 25, 1998 10:56 PM : : ITWHEELER wrote: : > : > i roast them one at atime too bring out the flaver. i ues agreen : > willow : > stick. : : : : How many willow sticks does hit take to git one cup of coffee? : : Blue ------=_NextPart_000_01BD70DD.CA1CA480 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">Is this the way the old Mt Men talked, = and wrote? Or have I missed something. I prefer the = new English. I have read lots old Journals and have never had a = hard time figuring out what they wrote. I know Lewis and Clark = were not good at spelling. But if this way of writing is not a = joke I'm sorry. But if it is, it's hard to read. = ---------- : From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net> : = color=3D"#000000"> : Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee = beans : Date: Saturday, April 25, 1998 10:56 PM : : ITWHEELER = wrote: : > : > i roast them one at atime too bring out the = flaver. i ues agreen : > willow : > stick. : : = : : How many willow sticks does hit take to git one = cup of coffee? : : Blue </body></html> ------=_NextPart_000_01BD70DD.CA1CA480-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 27 Apr 1998 00:30:09 -0400 Jon, Thanks for saying that....I hope folks listen. Dennis Miles Ohio JON P TOWNS wrote: > Is this the way the old Mt Men talked, and wrote? Or have I missed > something. I prefer the new English. I have read lots old Journals > and have never had a hard time figuring out what they wrote. I know > Lewis and Clark were not good at spelling. But if this way of writing > is not a joke I'm sorry. But if it is, it's hard to read. > > ---------- > : From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net> > : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > : Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans > : Date: Saturday, April 25, 1998 10:56 PM > : > : ITWHEELER wrote: > : > > : > i roast them one at atime too bring out the flaver. i ues agreen > : > willow > : > stick. > : > : > : > : How many willow sticks does hit take to git one cup of coffee? > : > : Blue ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 26 Apr 1998 19:07:07 -1000 Frank wrote: > > Okay, I give up. How do you ballance that cotton picken' bean on the > stick? I've been up all night and have dropped all my beans in the > fire! Man, it's tuff being a greenhorn!!! > > >Well, see, son, what he ain't tellin' you is that he cheats! He puts these leetle teeniny arraheads on the end of the stick and kindly screws them into the coffee bean when ain't nobody lookin'. No durn wonder he's good at it. Been practicin' fer risin' a hunert years, he has. The stinker! And us dumb enuf to fall fer hit. Dang! Blue Come on, IT! Yer turn. (Are you sure yer name wadn't Bridger back there somewheres??) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 26 Apr 1998 19:21:19 -1000 JON P TOWNS wrote: > > Is this the way the old Mt Men talked, and wrote? Or have I missed > something. I prefer the new English. I have read lots old Journals > and have never had a hard time figuring out what they wrote. I know > Lewis and Clark were not good at spelling. But if this way of writing > is not a joke I'm sorry. But if it is, it's hard to read. > > ---------- > : From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net> > : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > : Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans > : Date: Saturday, April 25, 1998 10:56 PM > : > : ITWHEELER wrote: > : > > : > i roast them one at atime too bring out the flaver. i ues agreen > : > willow > : > stick. > : > : > : > : How many willow sticks does hit take to git one cup of coffee? > : > : Blue You've just been in town too long, that's all. I've noticed that is generally quite a difference between the way people talk and the way they write. One seems to try to be more formal and "correct" on paper, I think. And when talking, just let 'er fly. The Mt. Men really did talk a lot like this, only a whole lot worse. They had a whole other language they used among themselves out in the Bush; I've found that exclusive groups of people, who think well of themselves and less of others (particularly Flatlanders, in this case) tend to develop their own pidgin, as it sets them off from the norm. One thing those old boys did not lack was self-esteem, and who could blame them? If you find it hard to read, and I can understand that, try approaching it as a foreign language that you about half know. At least it's all English of a sort. Here we do it for fun and to identify with people whom we honor. Actually, this is nothin'. Take a look at some of the books if you want to see how the Mt.Men really talked between themselves. Try Vardis Fisher's "Mountain Man", based loosely on the life of John Johnston, aka Liver-eatin' Johnston. It may not be totally historically accurate, but it's a hell of a good read and will give you some idea of what these ole boys were really like. Hang in there, brother! You doubtless learn to love it. Watch yer hair, Blue PS. Lewis and Clark were incredible men, but they were not Mt.Men. They were explorers, not trappers. BIG difference! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Pamela Wheeler" <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 27 Apr 1998 00:44:31 -0500 So some people can not spell, so why make a big deal out of it? Like YOU said, Lewis and Clark could not spell very well either. How many of the mountain men were able to read and write at all? I seem to recall that some signed documents with their "mark". BTW...you don't have to read it. YellowFeather ---------- Is this the way the old Mt Men talked, and wrote? Or have I missed something. I prefer the new English. I have read lots old Journals and have never had a hard time figuring out what they wrote. I know Lewis and Clark were not good at spelling. But if this way of writing is not a joke I'm sorry. But if it is, it's hard to read. ---------- : From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net> : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans : Date: Saturday, April 25, 1998 10:56 PM : : ITWHEELER wrote: : > : > i roast them one at atime too bring out the flaver. i ues agreen : > willow : > stick. : : : : How many willow sticks does hit take to git one cup of coffee? : : Blue ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 26 Apr 1998 19:35:28 -1000 Dennis Miles wrote: > > Jon, > Thanks for saying that....I hope folks listen. > Dennis Miles Hey, what is this? We don't get to relax and have a good time on this list anymore? Look, if y'all want me to, I can sit at this keyboard, or in person, and reel off about six miles of the most perfect English you have ever heard, big words and all. Damme! Sounds like it's about time for a real old-fashioned augurin' contest. Gentlemen, please! Are you really the kind who is so lazy he can't learn a little something new? If this is too hard, how the hell did you learn to use a computer? Are you really so stiff you just can't *stand* it if the people around you like to play sometimes? Naaah, I don't believe it!! Perhaps we have here Mencken's definition of a Puritan-- a man beset by the nagging fear that somewhere someone is having a good time? Boys, if this bothers you, you might want to go to a history list or something of the sort. I don't want you to, but you seem so unhappy here. I certainly don't mean any of this to be flames, or rudeness, or anything of that nature. Sometimes when something strikes me kind of hard, I am perhaps more blunt than is polite. Please take it for what it's worth; you have the right to holler just like I do. If I've upset you too much, maybe it'd be better thrashed out off the list. I only ask you to think it over. My best to you Blue PS Old Iron Tongue can't spell for sour apples, but we love him anyway. > > : > > > > : > > : ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Pamela Wheeler" <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 27 Apr 1998 01:23:35 -0500 Thank you Blue Rider! We all have to put up with wearing a "normal" face all week long at work. As for old iron tongue you are right and I happen to like him as is! I knowed thet I wus haven to much on this list an sumbudy wud has tuh mess wit it! Shucks! YellerFetder BTW...Jon, Ien des ies yetesketen, Yolan! Sorry but my keyboard isn't set for other languages. ---------- > From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net> > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans > Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 12:35 AM > > Dennis Miles wrote: > > > > Jon, > > Thanks for saying that....I hope folks listen. > > Dennis Miles > > > Hey, what is this? We don't get to relax and have a good time on this > list anymore? Look, if y'all want me to, I can sit at this keyboard, or > in person, and reel off about six miles of the most perfect English you > have ever heard, big words and all. Damme! Sounds like it's about > time for a real old-fashioned augurin' contest. > > Gentlemen, please! Are you really the kind who is so lazy he can't > learn a little something new? If this is too hard, how the hell did you > learn to use a computer? Are you really so stiff you just can't *stand* > it if the people around you like to play sometimes? Naaah, I don't > believe it!! Perhaps we have here Mencken's definition of a Puritan-- > a man beset by the nagging fear that somewhere someone is having a good > time? > > Boys, if this bothers you, you might want to go to a history list or > something of the sort. I don't want you to, but you seem so unhappy > here. I certainly don't mean any of this to be flames, or rudeness, or > anything of that nature. Sometimes when something strikes me kind of > hard, I am perhaps more blunt than is polite. Please take it for what > it's worth; you have the right to holler just like I do. If I've upset > you too much, maybe it'd be better thrashed out off the list. > > I only ask you to think it over. > > My best to you > Blue > > PS Old Iron Tongue can't spell for sour apples, but we love him > anyway. > > > : > > > > > > : > > > : ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Pamela Wheeler" <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 27 Apr 1998 01:27:45 -0500 It's simple, all you have to do is take your flint drill and make an itty-bitty hole in the side of the bean and stick the sharp point into the hole! YF ---------- > From: Frank <MedicineBear@Hawken54.sparks.nv.us> > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans > Date: Sunday, April 26, 1998 8:25 AM > > > > Okay, I give up. How do you ballance that cotton picken' bean on the > stick? I've been up all night and have dropped all my beans in the > fire! Man, it's tuff being a greenhorn!!! > > > ITWHEELER wrote: > > > > > > i roast them one at atime too bring out the flaver. i ues agreen > > > willow stick. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CT OAKES <CTOAKES@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Ft Fredrick Date: 27 Apr 1998 09:40:21 EDT My wife and I spent a wonderful weekend at Ft. Frederick 18th Century Market Fair. The fort is a French and Indian War stone fort that was rebuild/restored by the Civilian Conservation Corp during the depression. The fort saw action in the French and Indian War, Rev War (housed Britich POW's) and the Civil War. The site is realy nice, the event was really well run and Scott Allen (list member) and his fellow Patuxents deserve a big pat on the back for a good time, good camp, good shooting, good hawk and knife, good wood, good music (two hours by candle light in the fort on Sat night) and clean hooters (even after the public left at 5 PM). Scott can give the final attendance numbers but last I heard it was close to 1,500 campers and 250 sutlers. I can not see this 3 year old event growing much larger (space is limited) so I would recommend that anyone that wants to go next year pre- register, and I do recommend the event to one and all. I know that if we can arrange the time my wife and I will be there next year. And Scott it was nice to meet you and thank you, all the Patuxents, the State Parks people and the Friends of Fort Frederick for keeping the fort alive and well for all of the rest of us. Hope to see you again nest year. Your Humble and Greatful Servant C.T. Oakes ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CT OAKES <CTOAKES@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Anyone from Canada Date: 27 Apr 1998 09:40:20 EDT In a message dated 98-04-25 10:22:03 EDT, you write: << Is anyone on the list from Canada (ottawa to be precise) or know of a similar list for Ontario or eastern seaboard area? many thanks, Kirsten a.k.a Medicine Hand kirtan@storm.ca >> I have not found a list for just eastern seaboard but there are a lot of us from the eastern sea board on this list. I'm from across lake Ontario just outside of Rochester NY our paths may cross some time. Welcome to the campfire discussions. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee Date: 27 Apr 1998 08:23:52 -0600 Kirsten Smith and Tania Dopler <kirtan@storm.ca> wrote: >Is anyone on the list from Canada (ottawa to be precise) or know of a >similar list for Ontario or eastern seaboard area? Welcome to the list, Kirsten! I'm from Canada, but I'm in Alberta, so this is probably the only way we'll meet, with the possible exception of meeting at Old Fort William (Thunder Bay) during the Great Rendezvous in July--an excellent event, the best Canadian fur trade event I've attended. I'm part of the Northwest Brigade Club, and we concentrate on reenacting the Canadian fur trade, especially the 1774-1821 era. You may want to check out our club's web site, Northwest Journal Online, which has a number of online articles for reenactors. It's at www.telusplanet.net/public/gottfred/nwj.html Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Addison Miller <sean@naplesnet.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 27 Apr 1998 11:17:56 -0400 Gentlemen... Like Blue, I can spout the words fantastic, use very propper grammer, spell the big words, and do my parents proud with the education they gave me. BUT... This is a Mountainman List, and yes, most of the Mountainmen did talk this way. Actually, it is MUCH harder to write in the "Mountainman" verbage than straight English. Sooo.... I kinda suggest that y'all pull a log up ta tha far, git yerse'f a cuppa coffe, kick back, ruminate on it, and jus plain enjoy... 'cause it ain't gonna git no better... <chuckles> Now, did ah ever tell ya about tha time me 'n ol' Liver Eatin' Johnson wuz done snowed in?? SeanBear aka Addison Miller Blue Rider wrote: > Dennis Miles wrote: > > > > Jon, > > Thanks for saying that....I hope folks listen. > > Dennis Miles > > Hey, what is this? We don't get to relax and have a good time on this > list anymore? Look, if y'all want me to, I can sit at this keyboard, or > in person, and reel off about six miles of the most perfect English you > have ever heard, big words and all. Damme! Sounds like it's about > time for a real old-fashioned augurin' contest. > > Gentlemen, please! Are you really the kind who is so lazy he can't > learn a little something new? If this is too hard, how the hell did you > learn to use a computer? Are you really so stiff you just can't *stand* > it if the people around you like to play sometimes? Naaah, I don't > believe it!! Perhaps we have here Mencken's definition of a Puritan-- > a man beset by the nagging fear that somewhere someone is having a good > time? > > Boys, if this bothers you, you might want to go to a history list or > something of the sort. I don't want you to, but you seem so unhappy > here. I certainly don't mean any of this to be flames, or rudeness, or > anything of that nature. Sometimes when something strikes me kind of > hard, I am perhaps more blunt than is polite. Please take it for what > it's worth; you have the right to holler just like I do. If I've upset > you too much, maybe it'd be better thrashed out off the list. > > I only ask you to think it over. > > My best to you > Blue > > PS Old Iron Tongue can't spell for sour apples, but we love him > anyway. > > > : > > > > > > : > > > : ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dejawog <Dejawog@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Ft Fredrick Date: 27 Apr 1998 15:41:47 EDT where is Ft. Fredrick??? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Allen" <allen@blueridge-ef.SAIC.COM> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Ft Fredrick Date: 27 Apr 1998 15:50:54 -0500 Fort Frederick is about 16 miles west of Hagerstown, MD and about a mile south of I-70. Your most humble servant, Scott Allen Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick Fairplay, MD http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <rat@htcomp.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 27 Apr 1998 15:56:57 -0500 Communication is the key....communication. As long as I understand what the writer is trying to say, it don't make me no nevermind how it is said. However, we are relying on professional writers of that era to transform what they heard (or what they were told about) into what they wanted us to hear. It is difficult to say that, in fact, the mountain patois they used in their works is a good rendetition of what they actually heard. Mountaineers came from all over, bringing with them their own idioms and dialects. Maybe they all adopted the mountain dialect they encountered---maybe not. My guess is that if they were good men, honest and courageous, no one chastised them for how they spoke. For those interested, a copy of this paragraph and one dollar, American, is good for a cup of coffee just about anywhere, except in my camp, where you don't need the dollar.. Lanney Ratcliff rat@htcomp.net -----Original Message----- >Gentlemen... Like Blue, I can spout the words fantastic, use very propper >grammer, spell the big words, and do my parents proud with the education >they gave me. BUT... This is a Mountainman List, and yes, most of the >Mountainmen did talk this way. Actually, it is MUCH harder to write in the >"Mountainman" verbage than straight English. > >Sooo.... I kinda suggest that y'all pull a log up ta tha far, git yerse'f a >cuppa coffe, kick back, ruminate on it, and jus plain enjoy... 'cause it >ain't gonna git no better... <chuckles> Now, did ah ever tell ya about >tha time me 'n ol' Liver Eatin' Johnson wuz done snowed in?? > >SeanBear >aka Addison Miller > > >Blue Rider wrote: > >> Dennis Miles wrote: >> > >> > Jon, >> > Thanks for saying that....I hope folks listen. >> > Dennis Miles >> >> Hey, what is this? We don't get to relax and have a good time on this >> list anymore? Look, if y'all want me to, I can sit at this keyboard, or >> in person, and reel off about six miles of the most perfect English you >> have ever heard, big words and all. Damme! Sounds like it's about >> time for a real old-fashioned augurin' contest. >> >> Gentlemen, please! Are you really the kind who is so lazy he can't >> learn a little something new? If this is too hard, how the hell did you >> learn to use a computer? Are you really so stiff you just can't *stand* >> it if the people around you like to play sometimes? Naaah, I don't >> believe it!! Perhaps we have here Mencken's definition of a Puritan-- >> a man beset by the nagging fear that somewhere someone is having a good >> time? >> >> Boys, if this bothers you, you might want to go to a history list or >> something of the sort. I don't want you to, but you seem so unhappy >> here. I certainly don't mean any of this to be flames, or rudeness, or >> anything of that nature. Sometimes when something strikes me kind of >> hard, I am perhaps more blunt than is polite. Please take it for what >> it's worth; you have the right to holler just like I do. If I've upset >> you too much, maybe it'd be better thrashed out off the list. >> >> I only ask you to think it over. >> >> My best to you >> Blue >> >> PS Old Iron Tongue can't spell for sour apples, but we love him >> anyway. >> > > : >> > > >> > > : >> > > : > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Casapy123 <Casapy123@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 27 Apr 1998 22:29:51 EDT Blue Rider I suppose I'll get along if you and others want to talk like you think a mountain man might have talked. However, I agree with the thought that mountain men who left us their written words wrote in pretty good english. That doesn't mean they necessarily talked all that proper, but if we're to emulate them, shouldn't we also write correctly even if we talk in the vernacular? Your use of Vardis Fisher's "Mountain Man" doesn't support your case as it is fiction, even if there is some degree of factual basis. Provide us with some better, solid references (and there are a couple but I want you to find them) and we'll all have no option but to accept your writing without quibble. This IS a history list, contrary to what you might want to believe. Back up what you say with a proper reference and you can say most anything in most any manner you want. Good luck in searching for those references. If you give up, there will be others here to help you. That is what this list is all about. And, have fun doing it! Jim Hardee AMM #1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 (530)283-4566 (H) (530)283-3330 (W) (530)283-5171 FAX Casapy123@aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 27 Apr 1998 23:41:34 EDT just fooling around to see if you guys were gettin my mail dont get many replys. i have got alot of information from youall. but it seems that you doun care to anser mine. dont know any thing about roasting beens that why they have coffey stores starbucks thanks for ansering my mail iron tounge ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Branson" <mikebransn@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 27 Apr 1998 21:48:16 -0500 I agree, I get tired of trying to translate this new 20century mtn man lingo. The old diaries I have studied show the old timers never actually spoke in such a manner. M. Branson -----Original Message----- >Jon, > Thanks for saying that....I hope folks listen. >Dennis Miles >Ohio > >JON P TOWNS wrote: > >> Is this the way the old Mt Men talked, and wrote? Or have I missed >> something. I prefer the new English. I have read lots old Journals >> and have never had a hard time figuring out what they wrote. I know >> Lewis and Clark were not good at spelling. But if this way of writing >> is not a joke I'm sorry. But if it is, it's hard to read. >> >> ---------- >> : From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net> >> : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> : Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans >> : Date: Saturday, April 25, 1998 10:56 PM >> : >> : ITWHEELER wrote: >> : > >> : > i roast them one at atime too bring out the flaver. i ues agreen >> : > willow >> : > stick. >> : >> : >> : >> : How many willow sticks does hit take to git one cup of coffee? >> : >> : Blue > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Looking for information on clubs/groups Date: 27 Apr 1998 23:53:14 EDT thanks man dont want to be clicky but knowalege un shared is the worst kind averance ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Looking for information on clubs/groups Date: 27 Apr 1998 23:59:47 EDT sorry man just got a bur under under my saddel iron tounge ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RR1LA <RR1LA@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 28 Apr 1998 00:06:18 EDT good boy I.T. nothing like someone stirrin' up a hornets' nest just to see if'n the critters are still alive. LOL love it. keep on hammerin' PJ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 28 Apr 1998 00:07:08 EDT just foolin , i wouldnt try it on a bet just by mine . might try some day have trouble want ing everything taler made did they realy roste the beens at voos or did they have it already ground . seems green beans would get moldy. iron tounge ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 28 Apr 1998 00:14:02 EDT you take your self to serious . just funnin iron tounge ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 28 Apr 1998 00:12:20 EDT dont bee so siff sir just in jest i wrote. you take this the wrong way. take it anyway you want . just funnin. iron tounge ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 28 Apr 1998 00:42:16 EDT good one i knew there was a man out there that could take a little funnin it seems some of these guys take themselves to serious. im knew to this to and dont mean to ruffel anyones feathers . im in it for the fun and meeting felles like your self with a sense of humor. it dont take the fun out of it for me im just happy suken in air these numbered days that i have on this earth. iron tounge ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 28 Apr 1998 00:44:43 EDT amen iron tounge ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 28 Apr 1998 00:51:39 EDT thanks man im not a bad guy eather im full of hell and would crawl yes crawl on my hands an nees - spelling knees through broken glass for a friend. as usual you have come up again with some words of wisdom thanks . iron tounge ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 28 Apr 1998 00:58:19 EDT im still havin fun . ill give them some space . yall come iron tounge ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 28 Apr 1998 00:59:10 EDT god bless you man iron tounge ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 28 Apr 1998 01:13:40 EDT thanks for that im a simple guy and i love mountian man stuff. and all the stuff that goes with it . respectfuly iron tounge ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 28 Apr 1998 01:21:05 EDT i will try to do better iron tounge ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fred A. Miller" <fmiller@lightlink.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 28 Apr 1998 01:21:40 -0400 Michael Branson wrote: > > I agree, I get tired of trying to translate this new 20century mtn man > lingo. The old diaries I have studied show the old timers never actually > spoke in such a manner. M. Branson [snip] That's the conclusion I came to as well sometime ago Mike, but thougtht maybe I'd missed something. Regards, Fred -- "When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of individual freedom to Americans...And so a lot of people say there's too much personal freedom. When personal freedom's being abused, you have to move to limit it." Bill Clinton, April 19,1994 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Pamela Wheeler" <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 28 Apr 1998 00:46:29 -0500 On Tuesday, April 28, 1998 at 12:21 you wrote : " When personel freedom is being abused you have to move to limit it" .....................What in the heck are you all talking about? And why did you include that anti-American crap from the head slime ball for. Limit my freedom? Did I hear the mumblings of a commie in here or what. I take extreme offense when someone puts garbage like that out. My God in heaven, I will bet old Liver eating Johnston is rolling in his grave in Trailtown. The next time you all feel that way why don't you take someone elses place on the front line. Say in Bosnia! I would have been happy for you to have taken my place in Nam, you could have all my Purple Hearts with my blessing and maybe then you would love ALL your freedom! YellowFeather ---------- > From: Fred A. Miller <fmiller@lightlink.com> > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans > Date: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 12:21 AM > > Michael Branson wrote: > > > > I agree, I get tired of trying to translate this new 20century mtn man > > lingo. The old diaries I have studied show the old timers never actually > > spoke in such a manner. M. Branson > > [snip] > > That's the conclusion I came to as well sometime ago Mike, but thougtht > maybe I'd missed something. > > Regards, > > Fred > > -- > "When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical > Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of > individual freedom to Americans...And so a lot of people say there's > too much personal freedom. When personal freedom's being abused, you > have to move to limit it." Bill Clinton, April 19,1994 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 27 Apr 1998 20:56:53 -1000 Casapy123 wrote: > > Blue Rider > > I suppose I'll get along if you and others want to talk like you think > a > mountain man might have talked. However, I agree with the thought > that > mountain men who left us their written words wrote in pretty good > english. > That doesn't mean they necessarily talked all that proper, but if > we're to > emulate them, shouldn't we also write correctly even if we talk in the > vernacular? > > Your use of Vardis Fisher's "Mountain Man" doesn't support your case > as it is > fiction, even if there is some degree of factual basis. Provide us > with some > better, solid references (and there are a couple but I want you to > find them) > and we'll all have no option but to accept your writing without > quibble. This > IS a history list, contrary to what you might want to believe. Back > up what > you say with a proper reference and you can say most anything in most > any > manner you want. > > Good luck in searching for those references. If you give up, there > will be > others here to help you. That is what this list is all about. I didn't mean "Mt.Man" to be a citation, just a passing thought. Actually, it looks like to me it'd be easier all around if I just spoke correct English and brought Miss Manners to visit from time to time. But then, I doubt she would approve of me, either. Sigh! What's a poor girl to do? I do apologize to anybody I upset. It was unintentional. Blue ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 27 Apr 1998 21:01:38 -1000 ITWHEELER wrote: > > just fooling around to see if you guys were gettin my mail dont get > many > replys. > i have got alot of information from youall. but it seems that you doun > care to > anser mine. dont know any thing about roasting beens that why they > have coffey > stores starbucks > thanks for > ansering my > mail > iron > tounge Aw, shoot, man! Here I thought you had such a great idea and you mess it all up by telling the truth? We don't have Starbuck's on this island, but we do have Kona and all that World's Best Coffee. It *is* wonderful coffee. It is also $20/lb. Some days you just can't win. Aloha, Blue ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 27 Apr 1998 21:03:09 -1000 ITWHEELER wrote: > > just foolin , i wouldnt try it on a bet just by mine . might try some > day have > trouble want ing everything taler made did they realy roste the > beens at > voos or did they have it already ground . seems green beans would get > moldy. > iron tounge It's my understanding that they mostly carried and drank black tea. Blue ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <rat@htcomp.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 28 Apr 1998 06:47:56 -0500 Regarding the Clinton quote.....WTF,O? I am not familiar with that particular quote, but it certainly sounds Clintonesque. God save us from this man and his minions. I think some of us would appreciate knowing why you interjected it into a discussion about vernacular. It is not clear if your tongue was firmly in you cheek, as at least I hope it was. Lanney Ratclif -----Original Message----- >Michael Branson wrote: >> >> I agree, I get tired of trying to translate this new 20century mtn man >> lingo. The old diaries I have studied show the old timers never actually >> spoke in such a manner. M. Branson > >[snip] > >That's the conclusion I came to as well sometime ago Mike, but thougtht >maybe I'd missed something. > >Regards, > >Fred > >-- >"When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical >Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of >individual freedom to Americans...And so a lot of people say there's >too much personal freedom. When personal freedom's being abused, you >have to move to limit it." Bill Clinton, April 19,1994 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "F.Vital" <fvital@leo.infi.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 28 Apr 1998 08:48:39 -0400 Pamela Wheeler wrote: > > On Tuesday, April 28, 1998 at 12:21 you wrote : " When personel freedom > is being abused you have to move to limit it" .....................What in > the heck are you all talking about? And why did you include that > anti-American crap from the head slime ball for. Maybe it is there to educate/warn people about how the head beaureucrat really feels. -- Frank Vital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Lindberg <jal@cray.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 28 Apr 1998 08:06:14 -0500 I can't believe all of this stuff still coming under the coffee heading, how about changing the subject line? Maybe it's time for some decaf! B^) Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "P.D. Amschler" <buckskinner@mailcity.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Man of the Cloth Date: 28 Apr 1998 09:01:33 -0700 Well I have just read every one of the 49 new posts on this list and I have to admit that I was amused! So now I have a few MORE questions to get a few more ideas. I have read so much on linen shirts and will admit that it seems to be the only cloth that was in use but what about HEMP. Hemp up in till the early 20th century was a main stay. Even during WW2 we were using hemp rope and lines. Even as a young country it was part of most ststes law that you had to grow some hemp for the betterment of the country and the war effort. Hemp was user on all of our sailing ships not only as rope and lines but it was also used in clothing. It also was called linen in some old sailing books. Now I will also admit that I have not researched this fully but I do think that hemp would have made it's way into the Rocky Mountains in the 1800's as cloth as well as rope. Now does any one have any information on it's use past line and rope? I know that there are a few places to buy hemp today in the cloth form is it accepted as period in most living history events? ( Hemp is legal in this country to buy and sell as cloth but not grow??? go figuar that one). Paul Get your FREE, private e-mail account at http://www.mailcity.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RR1LA <RR1LA@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: the head slimeball (was roasting coffee beans) Date: 28 Apr 1998 12:54:38 EDT Amen YellowFeather. Only thing I can say is thank goodness Clinton makes statements like that, so we can truly see how dangerous, and exactly how big a slimeball he is. Also, to everyone on the list, PLEASE be aware of your subject headings, as this stuff is archived by subject. All the previous stuff about english, etc etc had nothing to do with roasting coffee beans. YHS PJ. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Allen" <allen@blueridge-ef.SAIC.COM> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Man of the Cloth Date: 28 Apr 1998 13:19:11 -0500 Paul, Please judicious use of the return key. It is very hard to read when you have to keep moving back and forth. Check out a company called Ohio Hempery. They have a website, but I forget the url. You should be able to find it using a search engine. I have one of their catalogs at home and they give a little history on hemp cloth and rope. It is very acceptable for the fur trade era. Your most humble servant, Scott Allen Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick Fairplay, MD http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bruce.mcneal@ssa.gov Subject: RE: MtMan-List:Ft Fredrick Date: 28 Apr 1998 08:27:00 -0500 Hey Scott, Any final figures on attendance at Market Fair? # of camps, # of sutlers? Everyone I spoke to had nothing but praise. Great job as usual. - Bruce McNeal ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TetonTod <TetonTod@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hemp Cloth Date: 28 Apr 1998 13:41:17 EDT Paul, You're correct in that hemp was widely available and used for a variety of applications. My research into period textiles has indicated that hemp cloth was used on a limited basis for clothing, but no where near as much as linen. Mostly for rough outer wear by farmers and outher country folk. So, wouldn't it stand to reason then that Woodsmen, Frontiersmen, mountain men etc would have used it? You decide. My Knapsack is made from some nice moderate weight hemp canvas and I am very pleased with it. I've also made some nice rope with hemp and jute. Sisal rope it appears was not period, but hemp certainly was. Todd Glover A wide variety of hemp materials are available from www. hemptraders.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: EmmaPeel2 <EmmaPeel2@aol.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Looking for mountain men info in St. Louis for trip Date: 28 Apr 1998 13:42:49 EDT I am visiting St. Louis in May to research some geneology about mountain men. Does anyone know if there is a specific museum devoted to the mountain men in Missourri? Or sites that I should definately see? I heard that the old fur warehouses were once on the river docks, but they may have been torn down. Also does anyone know about a place called Ste. Genevieve? Supposedly many fur trappers and traders lived there at one time or another. Any information appreciated! Thanks :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TetonTod <TetonTod@aol.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Hemp Date: 28 Apr 1998 13:46:59 EDT also check out www.hemptex.com Todd ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu> Subject: MtMan-List: Hemp (the nonsmoking kind) Date: 28 Apr 1998 10:47:12 -0700 (PDT) On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, P.D. Amschler wrote: > Hemp was user on all of our sailing ships not only as rope and lines but > it was also used in clothing. It also was called linen in some old > sailing books. Now I will also admit that I have not researched this > fully but I do think that hemp would have made it's way into the Rocky > Mountains in the 1800's as cloth as well as rope. Can't answer yer question Paul, but I can add one :) Would hemp have been the sling rope of choice for securing mantees on a pack saddle (horse)? My nylon sling ropes ain't gonna work fer what I wish to do :) I have read that the Lewis and Clark expedition used braided elk hides for their sling ropes, seen nothing about the methods of HBC or the NWC. Would rope, in quantity, have been brought overland as replacement stock? Or would it be braided from readily available materials? I can only find one source that lists rope as being shipped, and that appears to be only for the use of the transporters (York Boat Bill of Lading, 1803) Scott Alan did write: > Paul, > Please judicious use of the return key. It is very hard to read when > you have to keep moving back and forth. Check the settings on your mail program Paul... your paragraphs arn't wrapping to make it easy to read... at least for some readers. Regards Lee Newbill Viola, Idaho email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage http://www.uidaho.edu/~lnewbill/bp.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Allen" <allen@blueridge-ef.SAIC.COM> Subject: RE: MtMan-List:Ft Fredrick Date: 28 Apr 1998 13:47:55 -0500 Nothing yet, Bruce. I'll give them a few days to get their collective wind back! Thanks for the kind words. It was good to see you again. I'm thinking real serious about joining the ALRA. Your most humble servant, Scott Allen Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick Fairplay, MD http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: MtMan-List: The sail mfg. industry Date: 28 Apr 1998 14:25:11 -0600 (CST) Is it probable that sail manufacturers on the east coast (or anywhere for that matter) also made tents in large quantities? Further, is there any evidence that used sails were "recycled" into tarps for use as tents or shelters on the frontier after their usefulness as sails had been outlived? I have an old sail, complete with heavy 1.5" dia ropes sewn into two opposite edges. I often use it as a shelter, but when someone asks at an event, I'd like to talk about the use of old sails as shelters, but I hesitate to do so without some kind of reference or documentation. Of course, I could always say that I (my character) got it somewhere on the coast where shipes were being refitted. Any help out there? TIA HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! ******* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lee Cardon" <lcardon@insurquote.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hemp Cloth Date: 28 Apr 1998 13:33:18 -0600 In the "Joy of Handweaving" the author Osma G. Tod suggests that Hemp was brought from Europe at least a hundred years before the "Mountain Man" era, and that growers of Hemp were very excited because the land was so fertile here that it grew twice as tall as where it was grown in Europe. Since it is such a tough fiber, it was used for many "industrial" (used in the cottage sense) applications. It made good bags, sails, ropes, twines (shoe laces) and occasionally some rough work clothing. BTW: It was also used to extract drugs from...I'm sure we all know of one such drug, does anyone know what other useful medications come from the Hemp plant? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lee Cardon" <lcardon@insurquote.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The sail mfg. industry Date: 28 Apr 1998 13:48:02 -0600 On the lighter side of Sail usage, didn't Swiss Family Robinson, and Robinson Crusoe have something to do with that? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MIA3WOLVES <MIA3WOLVES@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 28 Apr 1998 17:59:59 EDT amen ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fred A. Miller" <fmiller@lightlink.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 28 Apr 1998 19:09:03 -0400 Pamela Wheeler wrote: > > On Tuesday, April 28, 1998 at 12:21 you wrote : " When personel freedom > is being abused you have to move to limit it" .....................What in > the heck are you all talking about? And why did you include that > anti-American crap from the head slime ball for. Limit my freedom? Did I > hear the mumblings of a commie in here or what. I take extreme offense when > someone puts garbage like that out. My God in heaven, I will bet old Liver > eating Johnston is rolling in his grave in Trailtown. The next time you all > feel that way why don't you take someone elses place on the front line. Say > in Bosnia! I would have been happy for you to have taken my place in Nam, > you could have all my Purple Hearts with my blessing and maybe then you > would love ALL your freedom! Pam, most people can tell it's a quote from the "Scum Bag" himself, and certainly not a promotion of his comment, but rather an alert to others as to what he really thinks. Fred -- "When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of individual freedom to Americans...And so a lot of people say there's too much personal freedom. When personal freedom's being abused, you have to move to limit it." Bill Clinton, April 19,1994 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <rat@htcomp.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Looking for information on clubs/groups Date: 28 Apr 1998 18:19:14 -0500 Matt Contact Don Kitlinger at woodenhawk@aol.com and ask for a copy of his publication "The Rendezvous Calendar". It is mailed to subscribers from September to May and each issue includes a calender showing most of the club rendezvous in the Texas area for the upcoming month. (June July and August aren't included because nobody rendezvous in 100+ degree heat---we head north for the cool country rendezvous). In the back of each issue is a list of most of the Buckskinner clubs in this area, including a contact person, their address and phone number. If you contacted all the clubs listed with a suitable questionaire you might have a beginning on your research. Don might be able to direct you to other publications around the country with similar information. Good Luck Lanney Ratcliff rat@htcomp.net -----Original Message----- >My name is Matt Despain and for vernacular sakes go by "Doc Wannabe" >because I'm working om my dissertation. I'm examining the image of the >mountain man in American history and culture, and part of that includes >modern day buckskinning. What I'm interested in is the histories and >constitutions/charters of groups to see when they were organized and >what influences led to their formation. I am also interested in the >formality (or lack of it) that certain groups prescribe to in their >activities (how one must dress, speak, or carry themselves in a social >rank). I am mostly interested in groups that participate in recreating >the Far West fur trade and the Rocky Mountain rendezvous (circa >1800-1840), but any information from groups that portray other facets of >the fur trade or frontiering are equally welcome. I would be most >appreciative of any information anyone could send my way. > >Matt "Doc Wannabe" Despain >1339 Homeland Ave. >Norman, OK 73072 >(405) 447-4046 >sdespain@ou.edu > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RR1LA <RR1LA@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Looking for information on clubs/groups Date: 28 Apr 1998 19:28:51 EDT Dear "Doc", A couple of good sources for rendezvous events, and their contact people would be the Smoke & Fire News, at POB 166, Grand Rapids, OH 43522 phone 419.832.0303. Also, there is a publication out of Denver called "The Territorial Dispatch" which provides additional stuff across the country. I was thinking the Booshways and Directors of Club events might be a good lead. Hope this helps some. YHS, PJ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Pamela Wheeler" <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Not too observant Date: 28 Apr 1998 18:28:15 -0500 I am sure happy that ye be in the city cause you is blind as a bat! YellowFeather wrote to ye not Pam ( Calamity Jane). You would go under fast in the shinin mountains PILGRIM! BTW...Sen. Burton says King Willy is a scumbag so I guess your observation there be close! YELLOWFEATHER ---------- > From: Fred A. Miller <fmiller@lightlink.com> > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans > Date: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 6:09 PM > > Pamela Wheeler wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, April 28, 1998 at 12:21 you wrote : " When personel freedom > > is being abused you have to move to limit it" .....................What in > > the heck are you all talking about? And why did you include that > > anti-American crap from the head slime ball for. Limit my freedom? Did I > > hear the mumblings of a commie in here or what. I take extreme offense when > > someone puts garbage like that out. My God in heaven, I will bet old Liver > > eating Johnston is rolling in his grave in Trailtown. The next time you all > > feel that way why don't you take someone elses place on the front line. Say > > in Bosnia! I would have been happy for you to have taken my place in Nam, > > you could have all my Purple Hearts with my blessing and maybe then you > > would love ALL your freedom! > > Pam, most people can tell it's a quote from the "Scum Bag" himself, and > certainly not a promotion of his comment, but rather an alert to others > as to what he really thinks. > > Fred > > -- > "When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical > Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of > individual freedom to Americans...And so a lot of people say there's > too much personal freedom. When personal freedom's being abused, you > have to move to limit it." Bill Clinton, April 19,1994 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Pamela Wheeler" <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Pam and Ken Date: 28 Apr 1998 19:24:26 -0500 Howdy the list, Let me try this one more time. The e-mail address is in Pam's name. Some of you might remember her as Calamity Jane. She got that name after she caught her dress on fire at rendezvous. Doc had to treat her for mtn. sickness that year too. Anyhow, I use the same e-mail service. That is why when I post to the list it say's Pam Wheeler. OK? Sorry if some of you got confused. Your Obt. Servant, YellowFeather ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Pamela Wheeler" <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Hudson Bay Blankets Date: 28 Apr 1998 19:36:53 -0500 I asked about some items earlier this year and I got a response from a lady from N.Carolina and I have lost your e-mail address. Would you please contact me again? Thanks, YellowFeather ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "YellowFeather" <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net> Subject: MtMan-List: name/gender Date: 28 Apr 1998 19:58:36 -0500 Thanks Medicine Bear! Ken ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fred A. Miller" <fmiller@lightlink.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Not too observant Date: 28 Apr 1998 21:11:15 -0400 Pamela Wheeler wrote: > > I am sure happy that ye be in the city cause you is blind as a bat! > YellowFeather wrote to ye not Pam ( Calamity Jane). You would go under fast > in the shinin mountains PILGRIM! BTW...Sen. Burton says King Willy is a > scumbag so I guess your observation there be close! > YELLOWFEATHER [snip] I responded to you because you addressed my sig, otherwise I would have ignored the comment(s). I don't live in the city, and anyone who's met me at any rendezvous fireing line knows that I'm not blind. Regards, Fred > > "When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical > > Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of > > individual freedom to Americans...And so a lot of people say there's > > too much personal freedom. When personal freedom's being abused, you > > have to move to limit it." Bill Clinton, April 19,1994 -- "When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of individual freedom to Americans...And so a lot of people say there's too much personal freedom. When personal freedom's being abused, you have to move to limit it." Bill Clinton, April 19,1994 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "YellowFeather" <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net> Subject: MtMan-List: E-mail Date: 28 Apr 1998 20:09:09 -0500 Thanks to Medicine Bear there will be no more name/gender problems from this hist list member. His help was as good as any potlatch I ever received! Your Obt. Servant, YellowFeather ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fred A. Miller" <fmiller@lightlink.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: E-mail Date: 28 Apr 1998 21:40:03 -0400 YellowFeather wrote: > > Thanks to Medicine Bear there will be no more name/gender problems from > this hist list member. His help was as good as any potlatch I ever > received! 'Glad that is cleared up.....was most confusing. Fred -- "When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of individual freedom to Americans...And so a lot of people say there's too much personal freedom. When personal freedom's being abused, you have to move to limit it." Bill Clinton, April 19,1994 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hemp (the nonsmoking kind) Date: 28 Apr 1998 21:39:33 EDT you got to be carfull with new stuff on animals it might gall them bad enough to loose a season wool works best have seen canvas on big outfits dont know about old times any thing with hair or a dirivative of that was probably what they used. nylone i would avoid it dont wick the salts and moisture away. iron tounge ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hemp Cloth Date: 28 Apr 1998 21:41:59 EDT thanks for the tip iron tounge ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 28 Apr 1998 21:58:28 EDT blue i had some of that coffe one time never forget the taste. they have a watered down version hear in the states. tasts like studd horse piss with the foam farted offthanks blue iron tounge ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting coffee beans Date: 28 Apr 1998 22:00:58 EDT dont bother me any iron tounge thanks blue ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hemp (the nonsmoking kind) Date: 28 Apr 1998 19:35:06 -0700 (PDT) Iron Tounge The hemp I was after was fer the sling ropes... the saddle pads are wool... the sling rope should never touch the animals hide. Regards Lee Newbill Viola, Idaho email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage http://www.uidaho.edu/~lnewbill/bp.html On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, ITWHEELER wrote: > you got to be carfull with new stuff on animals it might gall them bad enough > to loose a season wool works best have seen canvas on big outfits dont know > about old times any thing with hair or a dirivative of that was probably what > they used. nylone i would avoid it dont wick the salts and moisture away. > iron tounge > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Johns2rt <Johns2rt@aol.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Chat DUBRAY, Mountain Man & Fur Trader Date: 28 Apr 1998 22:40:01 EDT Does anyone have any knowledge of a Mountain Man & Fur Trader named "Chat" DuBray (also spelled "Du Bray" or DuBreuil)? The following is all I've been able to find on him: Encyclopedia of Frontier Biography, 3 Vols., Dan L. Thrapp, Spokane, WA, 1990, Arthur H. Clark Co.: "Mountain man (d. c. 1902). He probably reached the Rocky Mountains c. 1828 with the American Fur Company. His activities centered for some years around Bent's Fort. He apparently associated with the Arapahoes for a time, perhaps marrying a woman of that tribe. He also lived with Apaches (probably plains Apaches) for years. He spent his last years on the Rosebud Reservation, South Dakota, where he died. [Harvey L. Carter article, Mountain Men and the Fur Trade of the Far West, Biographical sketches of the participants, Vol. VI, 10 Vols., edited by LeRoy R. Hafen, Arthur H. Clark Co., 1965, 1972] Thanks in advance for any info. Nebraska Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com> Subject: MtMan-List: gut raps Date: 28 Apr 1998 22:52:33 EDT lee newbill lee thanks for the nudge its been awile sense i ben there. the never touch the hide . the alwaya ride on the cinch. ive seen some at the end of the day hanging free if you had the load set right. thanks iron tounge ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Traphand <Traphand@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Looking for mountain men info in St. Louis for trip Date: 28 Apr 1998 23:20:05 EDT If you are looking for St. Louis Mountain Man Info, try the Missouri Historical Society in St. Louis, on Skinker Blvd., near Forest Park. Their hours are: Tuesdays-Saturdays 10:00 AM - 5:00 PM. If you are hitting St. Louis, you might as well go to the Arch. They have a good book store there, and an okay Fur Trade Exhibit. Also hit the Old Courthouse, where you will find part of the wall from the old Missouri Fur Trade Warehouse (just so-so). Since you mentioned going down to Ste. Genevieve, you might as well cross over to see Ft. Chartres (a rebuilt French Fort), located four miles outside of the town of Prairie Du Roche, Illinois. Well worth seeing. Want to contact me for more details, etc., E-M me. Traphand Traphand@aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kat Hargus <kat@janrix.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Man of the Cloth Date: 28 Apr 1998 22:04:14 -0700 It's my understanding that hemp was also used as a lower class clothing. I know that there is a variety known as Manilia hemp -- grown in the Phillipines. Was this a cash crop any where in Europe? Hemp washes and softens beautifully, and wears very well. I would be interested in more info on its historical uses. The hemp plant is the same family as Pot, but without the THC in it. The two plants look similar, except that one grows tall and sparse and the other is bushy. You can get permission to grow hemp, and I am looking into doing this for the experience of retting and spinning the line fibers. Kat Hargus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kat Hargus <kat@janrix.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Looking for mountain men info in St. Louis for trip Date: 28 Apr 1998 22:11:27 -0700 Emma, I am here just outside St. Louis. I suggest the Missouri Historical Society Library on Skinker Blvd. in St. Louis (right near Forest Park). I also suggest the bookstore at (under) the Gateway Arch. St. Genevive is the site of the first permanent French settlement. There is also some of Old Town St. Charles (the first capitol) left. Depending on the weekend, I would suggest a day trip to Ft. de Chartres (about 3 hours away). This is a F&I period fort. There are also several 'vous within a few hours. Let me know when you are coming, and I'll see if there is anything special going on. Kat Hargus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting agave Date: 28 Apr 1998 18:37:22 -1000 ITWHEELER wrote: > > blue i had some of that coffe one time never forget the taste. they > have a > watered down version hear in the states. tasts like studd horse piss > with the > foam farted offthanks blue iron tounge LOL! Boy, aint that the truth. Pure Kona coffee is wonderful; it's when they start blending it with other stuff, it goes to hell. In most blends, they *brag* about having 10% Kona. Go figger. Recently tried some tequila that tasted the same. If anybody offer you Pepe Lopez, RUN!! Blue ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MIA3WOLVES <MIA3WOLVES@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: roasting agave Date: 29 Apr 1998 06:29:45 EDT It was my understanding that this list is a history forum. I have junior high school students reading it and would certainly appreciated that the language be kept socially appropriate for children. Red Hawk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JFLEMYTH <JFLEMYTH@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: FOFF Date: 29 Apr 1998 07:59:04 EDT Hello the list! I will soon be getting my subscription to Muzzleloader magazine, but I have been getting them at a gun shop so I get them late. Scott, I just read your article on Fort Frederick in the March/April edition. Nice work! Any one who is interested in the French and Indian war should read this and see the fort. I look foreward to doing that in the next couple of years. I don't have any plans to go to the East coast, but with so many things to see, I am going to do some talking to the little lady... Also, I want to second what some of the people have said on the list. Please try to stay true to the purpose of the list. Logging on to find 20 postings, maybe two to five of which discuss history or historical reinactment is not nessesary. With that in mind, what is a good source for buckskin trousers? The best prices I have seen are at Swift Hawk Trading Company. What do some of you reccomend? Thanks for any imput. John. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Johns2rt <Johns2rt@aol.com> Subject: MtMan-List: St. Louis Fur Trading Date: 29 Apr 1998 08:39:02 EDT >Subject: MtMan-List: Looking for mountain men info in St. Louis for trip >I am visiting St. Louis in May to research some geneology about mountain men. What family names are you researching? >Also does anyone know about a place called Ste. Genevieve? Supposedly many >fur trappers and traders lived there at one time or another. Just south of St. Louis on the Mississippi R., just across the river from Chester, IL. If you are interested in the St. Louis fur trade you might try to get a copy of Mari Sandoz's "The Beaver Men," University of Nebraska Press, Lincoln, 1964, ISBN 0-8032-5884-4. She covers nearly all the early St. Louis fur companies (in addition to the Canadian ones), many of their employees (trappers, etc.), and has a nice bibliography at the back giving enough sources to last you a couple of years. Ask your local library to get it for you on inter-library loan or buy it yourself ($7.95). Nebraska Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Lindberg <jal@cray.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Looking for information on clubs/groups Date: 29 Apr 1998 08:10:09 -0500 If you a looking for rendezvous more in the midwest, you might try: Powder Horn News P.O. Box 374 Schaller, Iowa 51053-0374 Subscription rate is $15 per yer for the monthly. I am just a new subscriber after enjoying Smoke and Fire for the last two years. Jim /`-_ Jim Lindberg |Les Voyageurs du Val du Chippewa { . }/ 724 East Grand Avenue | \ / Chippewa Falls, WI 54729 USA |Sweete water and light laughter, |___| http://reality.sgi.com/jal/ |Until we next meete. Go Gentle. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Allen" <allen@blueridge-ef.SAIC.COM> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: FOFF Date: 29 Apr 1998 09:25:42 -0500 John, Thanks for the kind words about my article. In answer to your question about Swift Hawk and Pants. Trudy at Swift Hawk does some excellent work and probably can't be beat on price. Your most humble servant, Scott Allen Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick Fairplay, MD http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Lindberg <jal@cray.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Vermont Date: 29 Apr 1998 08:26:40 -0500 I will be spending the next week in Burlington, Vermont. Any ideas on some must sees up there? Jim /`-_ Jim Lindberg |Les Voyageurs du Val du Chippewa { . }/ 724 East Grand Avenue | \ / Chippewa Falls, WI 54729 USA |Sweete water and light laughter, |___| http://reality.sgi.com/jal/ |Until we next meete. Go Gentle. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: MtMan-List: Swift Hawk Date: 29 Apr 1998 08:50:03 -0600 (CST) >John, > >Thanks for the kind words about my article. > >In answer to your question about Swift Hawk and Pants. Trudy at Swift >Hawk does some excellent work and probably can't be beat on price. > What's the address, phone, etc for Swift Hawk? How do their prices run? Give me an example. TIA, HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! ******* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Allen" <allen@blueridge-ef.SAIC.COM> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Swift Hawk Date: 29 Apr 1998 09:58:10 -0500 Henry, I'm sorry, but I don't have their address here at work. They do advertise in Muzzleloader and such tho'. I haven't seen Don and Trudy for a few years, but their prices were always lower than most on clothing. Trudy makes a very nice blanket shirt that, the last time I saw them, was under $40. They also have one of the best selection of books around. Hope this helps. Your most humble servant, Scott Allen Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick Fairplay, MD http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marlis Simms <trreport@roadrunner.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Swift Hawk Date: 29 Apr 1998 08:17:34 -0700 At 08:50 AM 4/29/98 -0600, you wrote: >>John, >> >>Thanks for the kind words about my article. >> >>In answer to your question about Swift Hawk and Pants. Trudy at Swift >>Hawk does some excellent work and probably can't be beat on price. >> > >What's the address, phone, etc for Swift Hawk? How do their prices run? >Give me an example. > THE ADDRESS FOR SWIFTHAWK IS 59 MOYER DRIVE, ABERDEEN, MD 21001 (410) 272-6023 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: EmmaPeel2 <EmmaPeel2@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: St. Louis Fur Trading Date: 29 Apr 1998 11:18:17 EDT Thanks!! I am doing research for the St. Vrain family (Bent St. Vrain company, Bent's Fort, etc) - have many of their original documents. Neat stuff. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: (Man of the) Cloth Date: 29 Apr 1998 09:26:39 -0600 "P.D. Amschler" <buckskinner@mailcity.com> wrote: > I have read so much on linen shirts and will admit that it seems to be the only > cloth that was in use but what about HEMP. I don't know about American Mountain Men, but in the pre-1821 Canadian fur trade, cotton and cotton shirts were quite common. For example, David Thompson took 2 fathoms (4 yards) of checked cotton and 21 cotton shirts over the Athabasca Pass with him in 1810-1811 (Belyea, 255-257); an inventory Thompson took of his trade goods at Rocky Mountain House in 1806 included cotton and a cotton shirt (Dempsey, RMH, 36); Thompson ordered 54 cotton shirts for the 1807 & 1808 outfits of the Columbia Department (Dempsey, RMH, 40); North West Company wintering partner Charles Chaboillez gave "Mr. Richards" two cotton shirts when he joined the NWC after leaving the HBC (Chaboillez, 285); HBC's Chief Inland, William Tomison, noted that "Cotton Shirts are much wanted" inland of Hudson's Bay in July 1798 (Johnson, 137n). As early as May 8, 1786, the NWC left behind 1 cotton shirt (and a bunch of other trade goods) at its Athabasca post (that's Athabasca Lake, not Athabasca River). Cotton shirts weren't the only ones used. My notes also include a large number of flannel shirts, calico shirts, and checked, striped, and gingham shirts. (As always, if anyone wants the full reference info for the short citations above, just ask.) > Now does any one have any information on it's use past line and rope? I know > that there are a few places to buy hemp today in the cloth form is it accepted > as period in most living history events? ( Hemp is legal in this country to > buy and sell as cloth but not grow??? go figuar that one). Here's a funny one: in all my reading of Canadian fur trade journals, I've found darn little rope. There was lots of twine (used for making fishing nets), and codline (for towing canoes) but only one case of honest-to-goodness rope, "Sandwich Islands rope", which I suspect was sisal. Packs of furs were tied up with babiche or pack cords made from buffalo leather. Of course, it's possible that rope usually "went without saying", but I've read so many letters from fur traders requesting twine or babiche from other posts that I'm really starting to wonder... As for hemp, a recent exchange on the historic costume list (h-costume, at majordomo@indra.com) came to the conclusion that the historic term "linen" included cloth made from hemp and a variety of other plant fibres. Also, THC-free hemp growing is in the process of being rapidly legalized here in Canada, so that may bring down the prices of hemp cloth, except most farmers here seem more interested in hemp as an oilseed than as a fibre. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The sail mfg. industry Date: 29 Apr 1998 09:26:48 -0600 mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) wrote: > Further, is there any > evidence that used sails were "recycled" into tarps for use as tents or > shelters on the frontier after their usefulness as sails had been outlived? In Canada, all birchbark canoes and York boats were equipped with sails & masts to use in favorable conditions (beats the heck out of paddling or rowing!). I've long felt that these sails would have been used as shelters at night. Oilcloths protected the trade goods in the canoes, and were quite likely also used for that after the canoes were unloaded at the end of the day, which leaves the sails available to serve as shelters. Although Frances Ann Hopkins' paintings all date from 1856 at the earliest, the "Voyageurs at Dawn" painting suggests one possible use of a canoe sail as a shelter : a sail or oilcloth is draped over the bow or stern end of an overturned canoe, and a voyageur sleeps beneath the canoe/sail combination. (Picture an 'L' shape, where the canoe is the tall part of the L, and the sail is the foot of the L. To see the painting, check out Peter C. Newman's _Illustrated History of the HBC_, aka _Empire of the Bay_, p. 114-115.) I just riffled through my notes, & found this: "By 'encamped', the reader must not understand that they [Benjamin Frobisher & his companions] had any tent, or even the advantage of a tarpawling or sail to serve as a substitute..." (Masson 2:215; from Samuel Wilcocke's 1819 newspaper account of the escape of North West Company wintering partner Frobisher from the HBC at York Factory). This suggests that in other circumstances, sails would serve as shelters--but not conclusive. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Lindberg <jal@cray.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: (Man of the) Cloth Date: 29 Apr 1998 10:51:32 -0500 How close would todays "bailer" twine be to the twine used by the early fur traders? Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ken YellowFeather" <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: (Man of the) Cloth Date: 29 Apr 1998 11:01:01 -0500 Thanks, this is really good information! Do you have any thing like this on the goods taken to the rendezvous in the American west? Or any data on cotton goods sold at the various western trading posts? Esp. with descriptions as good as the ones you just posted? YellowFeather ---------- > From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net> > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: (Man of the) Cloth > Date: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 10:26 AM > > "P.D. Amschler" <buckskinner@mailcity.com> wrote: > > I have read so much on linen shirts and will admit that it seems to be the > only > > cloth that was in use but what about HEMP. > I don't know about American Mountain Men, but in the pre-1821 Canadian fur > trade, cotton and cotton shirts were quite common. For example, David > Thompson took 2 fathoms (4 yards) of checked cotton and 21 cotton shirts > over the Athabasca Pass with him in 1810-1811 (Belyea, 255-257); an > inventory Thompson took of his trade goods at Rocky Mountain House in 1806 > included cotton and a cotton shirt (Dempsey, RMH, 36); Thompson ordered 54 > cotton shirts for the 1807 & 1808 outfits of the Columbia Department > (Dempsey, RMH, 40); North West Company wintering partner Charles Chaboillez > gave "Mr. Richards" two cotton shirts when he joined the NWC after leaving > the HBC (Chaboillez, 285); HBC's Chief Inland, William Tomison, noted that > "Cotton Shirts are much wanted" inland of Hudson's Bay in July 1798 > (Johnson, 137n). As early as May 8, 1786, the NWC left behind 1 cotton shirt > (and a bunch of other trade goods) at its Athabasca post (that's Athabasca > Lake, not Athabasca River). > Cotton shirts weren't the only ones used. My notes also include a large > number of flannel shirts, calico shirts, and checked, striped, and gingham > shirts. (As always, if anyone wants the full reference info for the short > citations above, just ask.) > > > Now does any one have any information on it's use past line and rope? I know > > that there are a few places to buy hemp today in the cloth form is it > accepted > > as period in most living history events? ( Hemp is legal in this country to > > buy and sell as cloth but not grow??? go figuar that one). > Here's a funny one: in all my reading of Canadian fur trade journals, I've > found darn little rope. There was lots of twine (used for making fishing > nets), and codline (for towing canoes) but only one case of > honest-to-goodness rope, "Sandwich Islands rope", which I suspect was sisal. > Packs of furs were tied up with babiche or pack cords made from buffalo > leather. Of course, it's possible that rope usually "went without saying", > but I've read so many letters from fur traders requesting twine or babiche > from other posts that I'm really starting to wonder... > As for hemp, a recent exchange on the historic costume list (h-costume, at > majordomo@indra.com) came to the conclusion that the historic term "linen" > included cloth made from hemp and a variety of other plant fibres. Also, > THC-free hemp growing is in the process of being rapidly legalized here in > Canada, so that may bring down the prices of hemp cloth, except most farmers > here seem more interested in hemp as an oilseed than as a fibre. > > Your humble & obedient servant, > Angela Gottfred > agottfre@telusplanet.net > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: (Man of the) Cloth Date: 29 Apr 1998 15:10:26 -1000 . > Here's a funny one: in all my reading of Canadian fur trade journals, > I've > found darn little rope. There was lots of twine (used for making > fishing > nets), and codline (for towing canoes) but only one case of > honest-to-goodness rope, "Sandwich Islands rope", which I suspect was > sisal. >Angela, As far as I know, sisal didn't (and doesn't) grow here in the Sandwich Islands. I have a a strong feeling this rope would have been made of sennet, the cordage made of the fibers of the inner husk of the coconut fruit. The Hawaiians used sennet for string, twine, and all sorts of cordage. It's very tough, stands up well to moisture, and fairly well to sea water. In the drier inland uses, it would probably last just about as long and longer than any fiber used at the time. Aloha Blue >. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joyce Surman" <jsurman@midwest.net> Subject: MtMan-List: information for doc Date: 29 Apr 1998 20:28:35 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BD73AD.629C7880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Doc if you are interested in information about Courier de Bois at Fort de = =3D Chartres in Prairie du Rocher, Il. Let me know I can get club by laws. = =3D Date of formation ect or, you can contact Fort de Chartres. The site =3D director, Darrel would be able to help you out also. We protray 1750's = =3D time period. French and Indian War and all that, doncha know. The =3D rendezvous allow early 1700 to about 1820 or 30. Joyce jsurman@midwest.net ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BD73AD.629C7880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV> Doc if you are interested in information about Courier de Bois at Fort de = =3D Chartres in Prairie du Rocher, Il. Let me know I can get club by = laws. =3D Date of formation ect or, you can contact Fort de Chartres. The site = =3D director, Darrel would be able to help you out also. We protray = 1750's =3D time period. French and Indian War and all that, doncha know. The = =3D rendezvous allow early 1700 to about 1820 or 30. Joyce jsurman@midwest.net</DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BD73AD.629C7880-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joyce Surman" <jsurman@midwest.net> Subject: MtMan-List: St Genevieve Date: 29 Apr 1998 20:29:56 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BD73AD.92D4D4C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tetontod (Todd) yes, I am familiar with St. Genevieve, I live not too far from there, = =3D There is a great book called Colonial St. Genevieve by (I believe the = =3D name is) Eckart. Lots of good history in the area. St. Gen has some =3D original homes. Prairie du Rocher is also close, and Fort de Chartres = =3D is right there. It has been restored. Pierre Menard's home is also =3D close by in Ellis Grove Il. Menard was involved in the fur trade. His = =3D home has been restored also. Fort de Chartres has a great rendezvous the = =3D first week-end in June with lots of re-enactors, traders, etc. June 6-7 = =3D this year. They portray approximately 1750-1820 at the rendezvous. The = =3D fort is early to mid 1700. I know the Fur traders in St. Louis were on = =3D the water front, but don't honestly know if any of the buildings are =3D still there, but there is a shop that sells rendezvous stuff somewhere = =3D there that I'm told was in a building from that era. ( Sloppy sentence = =3D sorry) The Menard home is circa 1830 or so. Lots of good history here. = =3D French Colonial. I could probably answer more questions or tell you =3D where to get answers or at least head you in the right direction if need = =3D be. Probably best to e-mail off list as I don't always get to read the = =3D list right away Joyce jsurman@midwest.net.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BD73AD.92D4D4C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV> Tetontod (Todd) yes, I am familiar with St. Genevieve, I live not too far from there, = =3D There is a great book called Colonial St. Genevieve by (I believe the = =3D name is) Eckart. Lots of good history in the area. St. Gen has some = =3D original homes. Prairie du Rocher is also close, and Fort de Chartres = =3D is right there. It has been restored. Pierre Menard's home is also = =3D close by in Ellis Grove Il. Menard was involved in the fur trade. His = =3D home has been restored also. Fort de Chartres has a great rendezvous = the=20 =3D first week-end in June with lots of re-enactors, traders, etc. June = 6-7 =3D this year. They portray approximately 1750-1820 at the rendezvous. = The =3D fort is early to mid 1700. I know the Fur traders in St. Louis were = on =3D the water front, but don't honestly know if any of the buildings are = =3D still there, but there is a shop that sells rendezvous stuff = somewhere =3D there that I'm told was in a building from that era. ( Sloppy = sentence =3D sorry) The Menard home is circa 1830 or so. Lots of good history = here. =3D French Colonial. I could probably answer more questions or tell you = =3D where to get answers or at least head you in the right direction if = need=20 =3D be. Probably best to e-mail off list as I don't always get to read = the =3D list right away Joyce <A href=3D"mailto:jsurman@midwest.net">jsurman@midwest.net</A>. </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BD73AD.92D4D4C0-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" <lahtirog@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: FOFF Date: 29 Apr 1998 21:16:49 -0700 Dear John You requested info on Buckskin pants. May I put my two bits worth in? I have been in to skinnin for close to 30 years and have formed some strong opinions on certain things and the right leather to use for authentic clothing is one thing I feel pretty strong on. I try my best to stear newcomers away from spending there hard earned money on that yellow comercialy taned leather for any use. Besides not looking right, it is cold in the winter and clammy in the summer. I think you would be better served and money ahead to use Brain Tan leather for pants,britches, or leg'ens or make your pants of wool, cotton, or linen/flax cloth. All of which are correct for the Period. Any Period. Check the manufacturer of dustom or ready made leather pants as to the type of leather they use and if they don't say Brain Tan it isn't Brain Tan. Far-be-it for me to suggest that no other leather existed during the 1800th and 1900th centurys because that is not the case. just not any thing like our modern "buck skin". Anyway that is my opinion for what it's worth and if others would care to take me to task on this thats fine as I surly will not be offended. Your most obedient servent "Capt." Lahti -----Original Message----- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" <lahtirog@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: FOFF Date: 29 Apr 1998 21:30:15 -0700 To all from Capt. Lahti Just a quik one to appologize for the miss-spelled words etc. I'm trying! -----Original Message----- >Dear John >You requested info on Buckskin pants. May I put my two bits worth in? >I have been in to skinnin for close to 30 years and have formed some strong >opinions on certain things and the right leather to use for authentic >clothing is one thing I feel pretty strong on. I try my best to stear >newcomers away from spending there hard earned money on that yellow >comercialy taned leather for any use. > >Besides not looking right, it is cold in the winter and clammy in the >summer. I think you would be better served and money ahead to use Brain Tan >leather for pants,britches, or leg'ens or make your pants of wool, cotton, >or linen/flax cloth. All of which are correct for the Period. Any Period. > >Check the manufacturer of dustom or ready made leather pants as to the type >of leather they use and if they don't say Brain Tan it isn't Brain Tan. >Far-be-it for me to suggest that no other leather existed during the 1800th >and 1900th centurys because that is not the case. just not any thing like >our modern "buck skin". > >Anyway that is my opinion for what it's worth and if others would care to >take me to task on this thats fine as I surly will not be offended. > >Your most obedient servent "Capt." Lahti >-----Original Message----- >From: JFLEMYTH <JFLEMYTH@aol.com> >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >Date: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 5:05 AM >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: FOFF > > >>> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mtmannh@juno.com (charles l chalk) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Vermont Date: 29 Apr 1998 14:13:38 -0400 Jim, The Shelburne Museum, which is a fair museum of life in the lake shore area, is worth the trip. If you can get across the lake to Ft. Ticonderoga NY, you will not be dissapointed. Charles Chalk Merrimack, N.H. 03054 On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 08:26:40 -0500 Jim Lindberg <jal@cray.com> writes: >I will be spending the next week in Burlington, Vermont. Any ideas on >some must sees up there? > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CT OAKES <CTOAKES@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Man of the Cloth Date: 30 Apr 1998 09:36:19 EDT In a message dated 98-04-28 13:20:55 EDT, you write: << Ohio Hempery. They have a website, but I forget the url >> Ohio Hempery is: http://www.hempery.com small charge for samples but nice fabric choices. Another good source (and somewhat less pricey) is Hemp Traders, 2130 Colby Ave. #1, Los Angeles, Ca 90025. They are an importer/wholesaler and will sell small pieces. George Washinton grew hemp for fiber. Hemp fiber was used in sails (it is rot resistant), canvas for tents and my wife has found it listed as the fabric used in "the common mans" breeches in the late 1700's in upstate NY history. Just picked up a few yards for some shirts as it is extremely durable and soft on the skin. Bought mine at the Ft. Federick trade fair for $9 per yard 60" wide. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CT OAKES <CTOAKES@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Vermont Date: 30 Apr 1998 09:36:21 EDT In a message dated 98-04-29 09:27:26 EDT, you write: <> Ft. Ticonderoga first and formost, it is just a short drive from Burlington and should not be missed. To bad you are going next week and not the following, on May 16th an 17th they will be hosting the War College, a truely great indepth study of the French and Indian War. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rope & twine (was: (Man of the) Cloth) Date: 30 Apr 1998 09:24:23 -0600 Jim Lindberg <jal@cray.com> wrote: >How close would todays "bailer" twine be to the twine used by the early >fur traders? Jim, I haven't the foggiest. The twine is described in a number of ways: "Hambro line", "Holland twine", "net thread", and "sturgeon twine" are some I've found. I also have a reference to horsehair line, but this was less common the others. Blue Rider <blurdr@gte.net> wrote: >As far as I know, sisal didn't (and doesn't) grow here in the Sandwich >Islands. I have a a strong feeling this rope would have been made of >sennet, the cordage made of the fibers of the inner husk of the coconut >fruit. Blue, thanks a lot for setting me straight on the "Sandwich Islands rope". If sisal isn't a species native to Hawaii, then that would clinch it-- the reference is from Astoria, c. 1814. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: (Man of the) Cloth Date: 30 Apr 1998 09:25:02 -0600 "Ken YellowFeather" <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net> wrote: > Do you have any thing like this on > the goods taken to the rendezvous in the American west? Or any data on > cotton goods sold at the various western trading posts? Esp. with > descriptions as good as the ones you just posted? Sorry, no. I try very hard to concentrate on the Canadian fur trade, 1774-1821--that's how I'm able to build up this information. But this sort of research is really quite easy, if you're doing the reading anyhow. Whenever I read something related to my field, I use a half-dozen ruled 3"X5" index cards as my bookmark, and keep a pen handy. Then, if I read something interesting or useful, I write it down on an index card. On the top corner, I make a note about the subject (for example, TRADE GOODS--CLOTHING) and on the bottom, I make a short note about where it came from (e.g. Johnson, 317). The first time I make a note from any book, I make a card for the book, giving author, title, publisher, ISBN, etc., so that later I can figure out what book "Johnson" was. Finished cards go into a recipe box, sorted by subject. I didn't invent this system, but it sure works for me. Although it sounds like a pain in the butt, and it sure slows down my reading at times, it really helps me to keep my facts straight. Some people can remember everything they read, but I find that I need my notes to help keep me honest. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ron" <cstmzd@ida.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Precarved Stocks for T/C Date: 29 Apr 1998 13:09:13 -0600 Does anyone know where I can buy precarved stocks for a T/C Renegade? 95% - 98% inletted. I want more drop at the heel. Full or half stocks OK. Thanks, Ron Email <cstmzd@ida.net> \|/ / \ / \ / 0 \ Lonewolf ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "YellowFeather" <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net> Subject: MtMan-List: button front trousers Date: 30 Apr 1998 21:13:49 -0500 Anyone on the list know when trousers were first made with a button fly similar to today's trousers? I know they had them by 1860, any earlier? YF ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "YellowFeather" <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net> Subject: MtMan-List: mocs Date: 30 Apr 1998 21:18:33 -0500 Need a supplier who has Apache or Navaho style mocs with the white rawhide soles. ( Not the Tandy junk " apache stuff) SW indian made. Thanks, YF ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "YellowFeather" <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Marsailles vest Date: 30 Apr 1998 21:44:01 -0500 Anyone of you clothing experts know what a Marsailles vest is? It is listed in the 1835 trade goods list. Thanks, YF ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" <lahtirog@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Precarved Stocks for T/C Date: 30 Apr 1998 20:33:28 -0700 Ron You asked if there was a source for precarved TC stocks. Back in the 70's when I got my first front stuffer it happened to be a 50cal. TC. I soon found that it had too much wood on it and didn't have enough drop in the stock to be an easy to shoot gun. My friend Tom Crooks helped me carve away a couple pounds of wood and put me on to the idea of steaming the wrist to get more drop in the stock and even put a bit of cast-off like good English shot guns have. If you are interested, the process is quit simple and takes no great amount of gear to accomplish. Since you are willing to redue a new stock any way, I say go ahead and take your files and rasps to the stock you have and thin it down to more pleasing lines. Once that is done you can make a sleave of tin can with a fitting that will accept a piece of garden hose and with it slit so it may be wraped around the wrist of your gun. Fit this sleave over the wrist of your stock with the gun assembled (this is for strength). Take the other end of the hose and fit it to a tin funnel that will fit over a coffee can or other similar water container. Your gun and stock should be clamped in a vice in a normal horizontal position right side up. Tape the sleave on the wrist with duck tape so very little steam can excape and with water in your lower container, tape the funnel to the water can and place on a stove or heat source. The next step is to hang a weight from the butt of the stock such that it will pull the stock down as the steam heats the wrist to a plastic state. You can put some cast-off in the stock at the same time by making a similar arraingement for a weight to pull the stock to the right. You must use a fairly heavy weight to get the stock to move. I think I used a 5 or 10 pound block of lead when I did it. If you use a piece of wire to hang the weight and put a landing under the weight to limit how much it can come down, you can make the process almost automatic. The heating process takes a bit of time so do this on a Sat. morning so you don't get caught by "lights out". I guess you could plan on 1 to 3 or 4 hrs. Probably faster than I remember. Any way what have you got to loose? You may experience some discoloration of the stock but it won't be bad and is easy to stain over. Finally, When the stock has dropped as much as you want just let everything cool over night and give the stock a day more to dry before you do anything more. So...No guts no glory! Good luck! Any questions? Go for it! P.S. I did this to a Charlleville Musket with excelent results a number of years latter too! Your most obedient servent "Capt." Lahti -----Original Message----- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas <pdkeas@market1.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: St. Louis Fur Trading Date: 30 Apr 1998 19:56:44 +0000 Would you have any info on the Bent girl aged 13 when she married Zan Hicklen? Can't remember her first name, but it was something like Beth. I guess she was a decendant probably of Charles since she had a Spanish last name. Thanks DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS --- PROPRIETORS OF THE NADA TRADING COMPANY EmmaPeel2 wrote: >Thanks!! I am doing research for the St. Vrain family (Bent St. Vrain >company, Bent's Fort, etc) - have many of their original documents. Neat >stuff. > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > >Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com > (SMTPD32-4.03) id A6DC300006C; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:27:24 MST >Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0yUYdm-0005WQ-00; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:19:22 -0600 >Received: from (imo26.mx.aol.com) [198.81.17.70] > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0yUYdk-0005SM-00; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:19:20 -0600 >Received: from EmmaPeel2@aol.com > by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv14.1) id IQBGa02436 > for <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:18:17 -0400 (EDT) >From: EmmaPeel2 <EmmaPeel2@aol.com> >Message-ID: <64239e1d.354744ba@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:18:17 EDT >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: St. Louis Fur Trading >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 >Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >X-UIDL: 891663100 >Status: U > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Singer - \"Spinner\"" <wwwrendezvous@geocities.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Precarved Stocks for T/C Date: 01 May 1998 10:18:04 -0600 Ron, Track of the Wolf sells pre-inlet stocks for T/C Hawkens (full or half stock, maple or walnut). These are for barrels that are 15/16" across the flats, I believe the Renegade barrel is 1". Prices are between $105 and $165. Scott Singer, aka "Spinner" WWW Rendezvous Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/~wwwrendezvous Territorial Dispatch/National Association of Buckskinners Web Site http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/4833 -----Original Message----- >Does anyone know where I can buy precarved stocks for a T/C Renegade? >95% - 98% inletted. I want more drop at the heel. Full or half stocks OK. > >Thanks, Ron > > >Email <cstmzd@ida.net> > > \|/ > / \ > / \ > / 0 \ Lonewolf > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Branson" <mikebransn@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: St. Louis Fur Trading Date: 30 Apr 1998 22:42:06 -0500 I would be interested in any documents that discuss the Bent family indian ties. I have been researching that side of the family for several years. M. Branson -----Original Message----- >Would you have any info on the Bent girl aged 13 when she married Zan >Hicklen? Can't remember her first name, but it was something like Beth. I >guess she was a decendant probably of Charles since she had a Spanish last >name. Thanks > >DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS --- PROPRIETORS OF THE NADA TRADING COMPANY > >EmmaPeel2 wrote: >>Thanks!! I am doing research for the St. Vrain family (Bent St. Vrain >>company, Bent's Fort, etc) - have many of their original documents. Neat >>stuff. >> >> >> >>RFC822 header >>----------------------------------- >> >>Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com >> (SMTPD32-4.03) id A6DC300006C; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:27:24 MST >>Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 1.82 #1) >> id 0yUYdm-0005WQ-00; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:19:22 -0600 >>Received: from (imo26.mx.aol.com) [198.81.17.70] >> by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) >> id 0yUYdk-0005SM-00; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:19:20 -0600 >>Received: from EmmaPeel2@aol.com >> by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv14.1) id IQBGa02436 >> for <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:18:17 -0400 >(EDT) >>From: EmmaPeel2 <EmmaPeel2@aol.com> >>Message-ID: <64239e1d.354744ba@aol.com> >>Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:18:17 EDT >>To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: St. Louis Fur Trading >>Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >>Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >>X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 >>Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>Precedence: bulk >>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>X-UIDL: 891663100 >>Status: U >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: EmmaPeel2 <EmmaPeel2@aol.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: St. Louis Fur Trading Date: 01 May 1998 01:07:30 EDT Gee wish I did have something about the 13-year old Bent child! Unfortunately I just have 460 St. Vrain descendants! However I will definately keep on the lookout. You might want to contact: mikebransn@worldnet.att.net as he is investigating the Bent family. Gee, wouldn't it be fantastic if the Bent and St. Vrain families could get together at Bent's Fort for a 150 year reunion!!! :) LOts of St, Vrain descendents in New Mexico and Colorado..a few sprinkled in CA, one in Florida. They all seem intriuged by the gutsiness of their ancestors. I just work for em, but frankly, I am amazed as well. My big regret is that I cannot meet them in person!