Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Colonial Market Fair in WV
Date: 01 May 2004 21:20:24 -0700
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
I went to the Market Fair and Rifle Frolic at Ft Loudoun, co-event with Ft Frederick. For a west coaster it was a neat experience. There were over 100 sutlers and over 700 campers. I was in Pennsylvania visiting my daughter, so spent a couple of days at Rdvs.. I fell in with a bunch of northern New Yorkers, who treated me like a long lost friend (most of my friends wished I were long lost...) I planned on buying my meals at the several food vendors there, but my new friends wouldn't let me spend a dime....they fed me like a King. I met several AMM brothers there. It was fun seeing how the easterners did things. I hope to return again next year.... to see my new rdvs friends, and to see my grandkids again. Yfab, Randy
----- Original Message -----
Vicki and I just got back from the Colonial Market Fair at Jacksons Mill in Weston, WV and did GREAT!! The event was sponsored by Rick and Linda Blizard. Last we heard when they were not going to have a Fort Fred any more, so Rick and Linda set this one up.
IT WAS GREAT!!! :) Not many vendors ( 8 I think) and about 100 campers,
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
<HTML style="FONT-SIZE: x-small; FONT-FAMILY: MS Sans Serif"><HEAD>
<DIV>I went to the Market Fair and Rifle Frolic at Ft Loudoun, co-event with Ft Frederick. For a west coaster it was a neat experience. There were over 100 sutlers and over 700 campers. I was in Pennsylvania visiting my daughter, so spent a couple of days at Rdvs.. I fell in with a bunch of northern New Yorkers, who treated me like a long lost friend (most of my friends wished I were long lost...) I planned on buying my meals at the several food vendors there, but my new friends wouldn't let me spend a dime....they fed me like a King. I met several AMM brothers there. It was fun seeing how the easterners did things. I hope to return again next year.... to see my new rdvs friends, and to see my grandkids again. Yfab, Randy</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Vicki and I just got back from the Colonial Market Fair at Jacksons Mill in Weston, WV and did GREAT!! The event was sponsored by Rick and Linda Blizard. Last we heard when they were not going to have a Fort Fred any more, so Rick and Linda set this one up.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>IT WAS GREAT!!! :) Not many vendors ( 8 I think) and about 100 campers, </FONT></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8--
----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Colonial Market Fair in WV
Date: 01 May 2004 21:22:00 -0700
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
oooops...forgot to mention their website address.... cool event for those nearby http://gnarendezvous.org/ Randy
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 5/1/04 9:17:04 PM
I went to the Market Fair and Rifle Frolic at Ft Loudoun, co-event with Ft Frederick. For a west coaster it was a neat experience. There were over 100 sutlers and over 700 campers. I was in Pennsylvania visiting my daughter, so spent a couple of days at Rdvs.. I fell in with a bunch of northern New Yorkers, who treated me like a long lost friend (most of my friends wished I were long lost...) I planned on buying my meals at the several food vendors there, but my new friends wouldn't let me spend a dime....they fed me like a King. I met several AMM brothers there. It was fun seeing how the easterners did things. I hope to return again next year.... to see my new rdvs friends, and to see my grandkids again. Yfab, Randy
----- Original Message -----
Vicki and I just got back from the Colonial Market Fair at Jacksons Mill in Weston, WV and did GREAT!! The event was sponsored by Rick and Linda Blizard. Last we heard when they were not going to have a Fort Fred any more, so Rick and Linda set this one up.
IT WAS GREAT!!! :) Not many vendors ( 8 I think) and about 100 campers,
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
<HTML style="FONT-SIZE: x-small; FONT-FAMILY: MS Sans Serif"><HEAD>
<DIV>oooops...forgot to mention their website address.... cool event for those nearby <A href="http://gnarendezvous.org/">http://gnarendezvous.org/</A> Randy</DIV>
<DIV>I went to the Market Fair and Rifle Frolic at Ft Loudoun, co-event with Ft Frederick. For a west coaster it was a neat experience. There were over 100 sutlers and over 700 campers. I was in Pennsylvania visiting my daughter, so spent a couple of days at Rdvs.. I fell in with a bunch of northern New Yorkers, who treated me like a long lost friend (most of my friends wished I were long lost...) I planned on buying my meals at the several food vendors there, but my new friends wouldn't let me spend a dime....they fed me like a King. I met several AMM brothers there. It was fun seeing how the easterners did things. I hope to return again next year.... to see my new rdvs friends, and to see my grandkids again. Yfab, Randy</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Vicki and I just got back from the Colonial Market Fair at Jacksons Mill in Weston, WV and did GREAT!! The event was sponsored by Rick and Linda Blizard. Last we heard when they were not going to have a Fort Fred any more, so Rick and Linda set this one up.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>IT WAS GREAT!!! :) Not many vendors ( 8 I think) and about 100 campers, </FONT></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8--
----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
Check with Hancock Fabrics, JoAnn's Fabrics and Cranston Village. They're all on - line. I just seen it at one of them the other day. Looked like good home spun. I believe it was a 1" check.
Pare-
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
--0-194315456-1083616873=:43042
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<DIV>Check with Hancock Fabrics, JoAnn's Fabrics and Cranston Village. They're all on - line. I just seen it at one of them the other day. Looked like good home spun. I believe it was a 1" check.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Pare-<BR><BR><B><I> </I></B></DIV><p>
<hr size=1><font face=arial size=-1>Do you Yahoo!?<br><a href="http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/hotjobs/hotjobs_mail_signature_footer_textlink/evt=23983/*http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover">Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs </a>
--0-194315456-1083616873=:43042--
----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
I don't have a boy child so David was it. We shot guns and rode horses,
cooked hotdogs in my buffalo hide teepee Christmas eve while he was
wrapped up in buffalo robes. He loved it. He spent Christmas with us this
year. I bought him a pony for Christmas and he held a picture of
her while he was dying and when the casket was closed the
picture was still in his hand). David Mathew was all boy and I was looking forward to
making a mountain man out of him. He loved Wyoming and planned to come out this summer all by himself to camp and pack. He
loved my wife and daughter and gave me credit for being more than I am,
so he made all of us feel good about being alive. I am so much more
affected by his death than I can say. The world is different now. I think
it will never be the same.
But it was a merciful death and I praise God for His mercy.
Can I send you an apishimore? Maybe that will stop the pinching. Let me
know.
Your friend,
Lee
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
--0-50718999-1084220762=:70756
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<DIV>Wynn Ormond wrote:Did you make it back it <BR>civilization yet?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Wyn, </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks for the note about Davud Mathew.<BR> <BR> <BR>Yeah, I'm back in body if not in spirit. <BR>I don't have a boy child so David was it. We shot guns and rode horses, <BR>cooked hotdogs in my buffalo hide teepee Christmas eve while he was <BR>wrapped up in buffalo robes. He loved it. He spent Christmas with us this <BR>year. I bought him a pony for Christmas and he held a picture of <BR>her while he was dying and when the casket was closed the <BR>picture was still in his hand). David Mathew was all boy and I was looking forward to <BR>making a mountain man out of him. He loved Wyoming and planned to come out this summer all by himself to camp and pack. He <BR>loved my wife and daughter and gave me credit for being more than I am, <BR>so he made all of us feel good about being alive. I am so much more <BR>affected by his death than I can say. The world is different now. I think <BR>it will never be the same.<BR> <BR>But it was a merciful death and I praise God for
His mercy. <BR> <BR>Can I send you an apishimore? Maybe that will stop the pinching. Let me <BR>know.<BR> <BR>Your friend,<BR> <BR>Lee<BR></DIV><p>
<hr size=1><font face=arial size=-1>Do you Yahoo!?<br><a href="http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/hotjobs/hotjobs_mail_signature_footer_textlink/evt=23983/*http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover">Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs </a>
--0-50718999-1084220762=:70756--
----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
i've always used between 60gr and 80gr for my blanks, some use more for more of an impression i find even a small load will impress most folks;) what i do is roll the load up in a small piece of newspaper or other light paper, tear one end (not off) pour powder , ram paper down barrel hence small amount of light paper (if not to close to crowd) if the crowd is close just put paper in your bag for later disposal, have fun.
David
Help!!!, I'm Being Held In This Century Against My Will!!
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
--0-510841170-1084887068=:21877
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<DIV>Michael,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>i've always used between 60gr and 80gr for my blanks, some use more for more of an impression i find even a small load will impress most folks;) what i do is roll the load up in a small piece of newspaper or other light paper, tear one end (not off) pour powder , ram paper down barrel hence small amount of light paper (if not to close to crowd) if the crowd is close just put paper in your bag for later disposal, have fun. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>David</DIV><BR><BR><DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<H1><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#4040ff size=3>Help!!!, I'm Being Held In This Century Against My Will!!<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><A href="http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb011" target=_blank><IMG src="http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb011" border=0></A></FONT></H1></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><p>
<hr size=1><font face=arial size=-1>Do you Yahoo!?<br><a href="http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=24311/*http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/">SBC Yahoo!</a> - Internet access at a great low price.
--0-510841170-1084887068=:21877--
----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<<<The last thing you want is a burning piece of paper falling down on the
crowd. I have seen a lady get burned, that's when I went to wet cloth
for
a wad. Randy>>>
which is why i mentioned the part about the crowd, however i neglected to mention if i'm close to a crowd i don't use anything, just powder, you don't get quite as much sound but the flash is still very impressive.
David
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
--0-1614024709-1084899534=:11055
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<DIV><<<The last thing you want is a burning piece of paper falling down on the<BR>crowd. I have seen a lady get burned, that's when I went to wet cloth <BR>for<BR>a wad. Randy>>><BR><BR>which is why i mentioned the part about the crowd, however i neglected to mention if i'm close to a crowd i don't use anything, just powder, you don't get quite as much sound but the flash is still very impressive.</DIV>
<DIV>David</DIV><p>
<hr size=1><font face=arial size=-1>Do you Yahoo!?<br><a href="http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=24311/*http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/">SBC Yahoo!</a> - Internet access at a great low price.
--0-1614024709-1084899534=:11055--
----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
Paper smoulders as well. Back in March I was down on the Osage Nation for a tactical, the paper from a cartidge in a brown bess musket started to catch the leaf litter. It was smoking quite nicely, which is how we noticed it and stomped it out.
I would figure buckskin the least likely substance to smoulder of those listed. Interesting. Never considered making cartridges out of leather.
Thom Frazier <mnthom@arvig.net> wrote:
All large reenacting groups recommend PAPER ONLY for blank loads. The reason
is all other materials: cloth (even wet) buckskin, tow, hemp, etc. smolder
and are fire hazards. Never shoot over or in the direction of a crowd. The
belief that someone was hit by something can do as much damage as actually
being hit.
Weeping Heart Gunn Shoppe
Thom Frazier
36732 Oak Point Rd.
New York Mills MN 56567
218-385-2074
mnthom@arvig.net
--0-1687311240-1084989666=:40856
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<DIV>Paper smoulders as well. Back in March I was down on the Osage Nation for a tactical, the paper from a cartidge in a brown bess musket started to catch the leaf litter. It was smoking quite nicely, which is how we noticed it and stomped it out.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I would figure buckskin the least likely substance to smoulder of those listed. Interesting. Never considered making cartridges out of leather. </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">All large reenacting groups recommend PAPER ONLY for blank loads. The reason<BR>is all other materials: cloth (even wet) buckskin, tow, hemp, etc. smolder<BR>and are fire hazards. Never shoot over or in the direction of a crowd. The<BR>belief that someone was hit by something can do as much damage as actually<BR>being hit.<BR>Weeping Heart Gunn Shoppe<BR>Thom Frazier<BR>36732 Oak Point Rd.<BR>New York Mills MN 56567<BR>218-385-2074<BR>mnthom@arvig.net<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
--0-1687311240-1084989666=:40856--
----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
Is there any documentation that supports the use of mountain men using a burden strap/tumpline? If there is, were they twined from cordage, braintan, or rawhide?
Thanks in advance.
Btw, is there anyone else on here from Oklahoma? Give me a holler, and maybe we can get together soon.
Pare Bowlegs
Seminole Nation
Our oral traditions is our documentation.
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger
--0-688175245-1085433816=:53964
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<DIV>Is there any documentation that supports the use of mountain men using a burden strap/tumpline? If there is, were they twined from cordage, braintan, or rawhide?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks in advance.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Btw, is there anyone else on here from Oklahoma? Give me a holler, and maybe we can get together soon.</DIV>
A paper I have, entitled "Desciption of saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition," shows some interesting saddles of our period of interest. All appear to have latigo straps for attaching the cinch, but only two still have the original cinch. A "mexican" saddle of about 1835 has it's cinch, which appears to be heavy fabric webbing, finished with leather ends, and chafe pads. The cinch rings are D shaped, with tongues. The other is a "hybrid" saddle of about 1840, from the lower Missouri river region. Concerning the cinch, it says, "Single center rigging employs a tanned leather cinch strap attached to the off side side-board beneath the outer skirt. On the on side, it is secured by a square buckle suspended from a leather loop attached to the sideboard beneath the outer skirt. A rectangular leather flap attached to the sideboard lies just beneath this loop and buckle."
This definitely does not tell the whole story, but I found it interesting, and thought I would pass it along.
My wife and I, have been using the cinches from our saddles to carry our burdens for years. Instead of across the forehead, I prefer to carry the load over the balls of my shoulders. The latigo cinch straps would work as well.
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger
--0-1264938888-1085618804=:26592
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<P>A paper I have, entitled "Desciption of saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition," shows some interesting saddles of our period of interest. All appear to have latigo straps for attaching the cinch, but only two still have the original cinch. A "mexican" saddle of about 1835 has it's cinch, which appears to be heavy fabric webbing, finished with leather ends, and chafe pads. The cinch rings are D shaped, with tongues. The other is a "hybrid" saddle of about 1840, from the lower Missouri river region. Concerning the cinch, it says, "Single center rigging employs a tanned leather cinch strap attached to the off side side-board beneath the outer skirt. On the on side, it is secured by a square buckle suspended from a leather loop attached to the sideboard beneath the outer skirt. A rectangular leather flap attached to the sideboard lies just beneath this loop and buckle."</P>
<P>This definitely does not tell the whole story, but I found it interesting, and thought I would pass it along.</P>
<P>My wife and I, have been using the cinches from our saddles to carry our burdens for years. Instead of across the forehead, I prefer to carry the load over the balls of my shoulders. The latigo cinch straps would work as well.</P><p>
<hr size=1><font face=arial size=-1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>Friends. Fun. <a href="http://messenger.yahoo.com/">Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger</a>
--0-1264938888-1085618804=:26592--
----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
Good extract for discussion. I have not yet found any real mention of HOW expeditions on foot carried their gear - the farthest they get is something like "hoisting our bundles on our backs, we resumed the trail". So a tumpline (no "r" by the way) is a very likely period solution.
What I find equally amazing is the MILEAGE - 1600 miles round trip in 3-4 months - works out to 15 miles day-in, day-out. This correlates with the 15-25 mile days reported by the expedition returning from Astoria after they lost their horses. These were hardy men!
Pat Quilter
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:17 AM
Crazy,
When you say cinch leather, are you implying that cinches were of leather? Would that be a single piece or several strands?
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:31 PM
I will agree with Wynn for the most part they did use horses and Mules to pack there gear. But there were times when they had to take off on foot and pack there bedding and things. Zenas Leonard gives us this account from one of these times. They are starting out for Santafee almost 800 miles away on foot in January and they call me Crazy.
On the morning of the 14th, finding every thing in readiness for our Santafee trip, we set out, each man with his bedding, rifle and nine Beaver skins, packed upon his back; leaving four men only to take care of our merchandize, and the two mules. The beaver skins we took for the purpose of trading to the inhabitants of Santafee for horses, mules, &c. We appointed from the middle of April till the middle of may, as our time for return- ing; and if we did not return within that time, our four men were to wait no longer, but return to the mouth of the Laramies river, to meet the rest of the company.
Any way it does not say how they packed there gear but I would think a burden strap or trumpline like the Indians used made of rawhide or one made from a saddle chinch leather. Would be what they would have used because what ever they used to pack there gear would have had to been made from what ever they had at hand at the time.
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=279335315-26052004>Good extract for discussion. I have not yet found any real mention of HOW expeditions on foot carried their gear - the farthest they get is something like "hoisting our bundles on our backs, we resumed the trail". So a tumpline (no "r" by the way) is a very likely period solution. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=279335315-26052004>What I find equally amazing is the MILEAGE - 1600 miles round trip in 3-4 months - works out to 15 miles day-in, day-out. This correlates with the 15-25 mile days reported by the expedition returning from Astoria after they lost their horses. These were hardy men!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">When you say cinch leather, are you implying that cinches were of leather? <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Would that be a single piece or several strands?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I will agree with Wynn for the most part they did use horses and Mules to pack there gear. But there were times when they had to take off on foot and pack there bedding and things. Zenas Leonard gives us this account from one of these times. They are starting out for Santafee almost 800 miles away on foot in January and they call me Crazy. <BR><BR>On the morning of the 14th, finding every thing in readiness for our Santafee trip, we set out, each man with his bedding, rifle and nine Beaver skins, packed upon his back; leaving four men only to take care of our merchandize, and the two mules. The beaver skins we took for the purpose of trading to the inhabitants of Santafee for horses, mules, &c. We appointed from the middle of April till the middle of may, as our time for return- ing; and if we did not return within that time, our four men were to wait no longer, but return to the mouth of the Laramies river, to meet the rest of the company. <BR><BR>Any way it does not say how they packed there gear but I would think a burden strap or trumpline like the Indians used made of rawhide or one made from a saddle chinch leather. Would be what they would have used because what ever they used to pack there gear would have had to been made from what ever they had at hand at the time. <BR><BR>This my take on this. <BR>Crazy Cyot <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8--
----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
The paper entitled"Description of saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition," was written by Ann Nelson, Utah Museum of Natural History, University of Utah, Salt Lake city, Utah 84112.
The Renwick exhibition was a collection of saddles from the Department of Anthropology, private owners, and the National Museum of History and Technology.
As far as the research, these saddles were thoroughly examined by the, Anthropology Conservation Laboratory, and the Smithsonian Conservation Analytical Laboratory.
Although the paper is entitled as mentioned, the upper right hand corner of each page says"Smithsonian Studies in History and Technology." Unfortunately the paper I have is only a partial copy of the whole, omitting the native saddles, and others of later manufacture. If you would like a copy of the pages that I have, I will be glad to send them to you.
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger
--0-2110374195-1085661473=:17966
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<P>Wynn,</P>
<P>The paper entitled"Description of saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition," was written by Ann Nelson, Utah Museum of Natural History, University of Utah, Salt Lake city, Utah 84112.</P>
<P>The Renwick exhibition was a collection of saddles from the Department of Anthropology, private owners, and the National Museum of History and Technology.</P>
<P>As far as the research, these saddles were thoroughly examined by the, Anthropology Conservation Laboratory, and the Smithsonian Conservation Analytical Laboratory.</P>
<P>Although the paper is entitled as mentioned, the upper right hand corner of each page says"Smithsonian Studies in History and Technology." Unfortunately the paper I have is only a partial copy of the whole, omitting the native saddles, and others of later manufacture. If you would like a copy of the pages that I have, I will be glad to send them to you.</P>
<P> </P><p>
<hr size=1><font face=arial size=-1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>Friends. Fun. <a href="http://messenger.yahoo.com/">Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger</a>
--0-2110374195-1085661473=:17966--
----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
Sure it is. First off I really do believe that a "tumpline" is not used across the forehead (might be wrong about that but I don't think so). That is called a "burden strap" and I believe it was commonly used by un-horsed Indians, Eastern Indians, SW Indians, SE Indians, Voyageurs with very heavy loads in particular.
Tumpline: A strap slung across the forehead or the chest to support a load carried on the back. tump (alteration of "mattump", of Southern New England Algonquian origin) American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language.
There are a few sketches and paintings showing Indians wearing tumplines across their chests. One was sketched in 1734 by German-born artist, Philip Frederick George von Reck. It shows 3 Creek hunters, and two are wearing them with bags on their backs. These may be open woven twined bags, since the two usually were used together. The other is of four Indians in Louisiana painted by Alfred Boisseau, 1847, and shows a woman carrying a basket on her back with the tumpline across her forehead.
Being active in the Fur Trade as early as the 1680's, Southeast tribes had horses. The Andalusian being one of them.
I believe that any strap used to carry a load could be worn in any fashion the wearer saw fit. And may even be called what was proper or common depending on region or location. Hoppus is another term used.
Not knowing which word was most common in your part of the country, is the reason why I used both. It turned out to be an interesting thread.
Having covered most of the fields on Southeast tribes with an emphasis on the material cultures of the Seminoles and Creeks, I've decided to turn my search towards the Indian influence on the Mountain Men of Indian Territory.
<DIV><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size=2><STRONG><EM></EM></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size=2>Sure it is. First off I really do believe that a "tumpline" is not used across the forehead (might be wrong about that but I don't think so). That is called a "burden strap" and I believe it was commonly used by un-horsed Indians, Eastern Indians, SW Indians, SE Indians, Voyageurs with very heavy loads in particular. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Tumpline: A strap slung across the forehead or the chest to support a load carried on the back. tump (alteration of "mattump", of Southern New England Algonquian origin) American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There are a few sketches and paintings showing Indians wearing tumplines across their chests. One was sketched in 1734 by German-born artist, Philip Frederick George von Reck. It shows 3 Creek hunters, and two are wearing them with bags on their backs. These may be open woven twined bags, since the two usually were used together. The other is of four Indians in Louisiana painted by Alfred Boisseau, 1847, and shows a woman carrying a basket on her back with the tumpline across her forehead. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Being active in the Fur Trade as early as the 1680's, Southeast tribes had horses. The Andalusian being one of them. </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size=2>I believe that any strap used to carry a load could be worn in any fashion the wearer saw fit. And may even be called what was proper or common depending on region or location. Hoppus is another term used.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Not knowing which word was most common in your part of the country, is the reason why I used both. It turned out to be an interesting thread.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Having covered most of the fields on Southeast tribes with an emphasis on the material cultures of the Seminoles and Creeks, I've decided to turn my search towards the Indian influence on the Mountain Men of Indian Territory. </DIV>
I am very interested in Mountain Man doin's on a horse. I have been a member of the ALRA for about 10 years and have done treks on foot with them. My persona has been a long hunter in the 1770 era. However, lately I came to the conclusion that it was wierd that people out west immulate eastern US history and people in the East immulate Western history. I decided that I wanted to do things related to the area where I live, but in order to remain a member of the ALRA, I could not go any later that 1812. Therefore, I have been struggling.
In the meantime, I aquired a horse about 3 years ago so I have been doing some horse trekking on my own. I have been unable to hook up with anyone. The saddle I have been using is a replica of a Hussan saddle that could have been used in the War of 1812 or earlier. It does not look like most of the mountain men type saddles I've seen, but it seems to fit the period well.
From the message you just left me, it sounds like you may live in the Pocatello area. In the course of business, I get up there about every 6-8 weeks. Let me know how I can contact you directly if you would. Thank you for your message.
Sincerely,
Jerry
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>Jerry,
>
>If you live in SLC, and like Mountain Man doin's on a horse, get ahold of me off-line. We can hook you up with some like-minded guys.
>
>Allen in Fort Hall Country
>allenhall@srv.net
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jerry Bell
> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 1:13 PM
> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Cinches
>
>
> I live in Salt Lake City. I just called the Museum. They are doing some research for me and will call me back. When I learn something, I will let you know.
>
>
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Cheyenne
> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:35 PM
> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Cinches
>
>
>
> Jerry
>
> If I gett a chance I will do some research through my local college (USU) and see if I can come up with something. I am in Utah so I might be able to get some info from the Museum that Chance refers to.
>
> Wynn
>
> --------- Original Message --------
> From: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> To: "hist_text@lists.xmission.com" <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Cinches
> Date: 27/05/04 13:14
>
> I have been doing a lot of studying of saddles. I would love a copy of the pages you have of this paper. How would I be able to get a complete copy?
>
>
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of CHANCE TIFFIE
> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 6:38 AM
> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cinches
>
>
>
> Wynn,
>
> The paper entitled"Description of saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition," was written by Ann Nelson, Utah Museum of Natural History, University of Utah, Salt Lake city, Utah 84112.
>
> The Renwick exhibition was a collection of saddles from the Department of Anthropology, private owners, and the National Museum of History and Technology.
>
> As far as the research, these saddles were thoroughly examined by the, Anthropology Conservation Laboratory, and the Smithsonian Conservation Analytical Laboratory.
>
> Although the paper is entitled as mentioned, the upper right hand corner of each page says"Smithsonian Studies in History and Technology." Unfortunately the paper I have is only a partial copy of the whole, omitting the native saddles, and others of later manufacture. If you would like a copy of the pages that I have, I will be glad to send them to you.
